 This week's episode is sponsored by Change. Change is an online mentoring program that teaches people with no experience how to create a real profitable online business and e-commerce. I have been working with Ryan at Change for a few years now and attended many events and got to meet the amazing community of like-minded people. These guys are the best of the best. The support these guys offer is personal, no bots or employees. There's no experience needed but like anything in life it takes time as it's a real business with real results. For more information go check out Ryan on Instagram at RyanGybe and he will guide you through the steps to help build a successful business. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. Boomer on and today's guest is the Chrissy Sprigh. How are you Christopher? I'm very good mate, how are you? Yeah, really good mate. First and foremost thanks for coming on the show. Mad story, very dark. Some dubbed this woman Britain's most evil mother. You went through some torment, some torture, some pain, some misery. She ended up going to prison rightfully so but today's all about you and go through your story and your journey, how you overcome it and the things that you're doing now. It's unbelievable how people can grow some inner strength to then still kick on in life even though all the dark stuff they go through. First and foremost how bad you? Overall I can't complain like you know I survived that. That's the main thing like I can't complain you know you have your shit days, you have your good days like I can't complain. Can I just ask one question? Yeah of course. Are we okay swearing? Let's do what we want. You can do what we want mate. I don't know if you get demonetised. No we do but we just got to keep it real. So we do get demonetised with this word was but fuck it brother. There you go, that sounds bad. But before we get into everything I always like to go back to the start of my guests. Where do you grew up? How it all began? So I was born in Cheltenham, 1988. Well we think I don't have a birth certificate so I don't actually know when I was born which is a rare thing to have but we believe I was born in 1998. My parents were they had substance abuse issues really badly so like my earliest memories of tottering around a house with no carpets no like pain peeling off the walls it was it was a shit situation from the start and like my first memory ever is literally eating a sugar sandwich because that's all we had in the cupboard. So yeah by the age of three my parents were looking at putting us up for adoption and my mum ended up going into hospital nearly dying because she was taking heroin while also she had I think it was pneumonia or something. Anyway she nearly ended up dying and through some friends she found out about Eunice Spie who was offering private fostering arrangements and that started the the journey of craziness. Yeah I've read your story and I've watched some of your videos some dark stuff and now that you're a father and I'm a father listen kids are pains and asses but the stuff that you have been through does not deserve any of that any sort of abuse or pain that kids should suffer because kids are pure they're in this earth. Kids don't ask to be born and that's the sad thing so for people to abuse them and abandon them it's heartbreaking when did what was it like what was it first steps to go to is it Eunice? Yeah Eunice. So initially it was really exciting so I'm like three or four years old I remember she had this bright yellow freaking Volvo it was amazing as a little kid and we arrived at her house and it was like a dreamland mate there was toys everywhere like a sand pits in the garden her garden was massive and initially everything was amazing literally she was strict she was Jehovah's Witness and they tend to be a bit strict to the most parents but it wasn't abuse at first if anything we had a great first six months and then we it went wrong. Very well. So see the first six month was it loving was it caring was it cuddles or was it just they were leaving you alone? I wouldn't say it was loving but we were taking care of well it was it was like being in a foster home really like there's no real love there but it you know we had clothes on our backs we had food we had like toys to play with so and we went to church three times a week it was alright. How many kids in the house? So there were five kids in total so Charlotte who died in car crash later on we'll get into Charlotte Victoria and Aloma my real sister and my real brother Caleb. So she had two of her own in Free Foster? Yeah well no Charlotte was adopted as well so she had two of her own kids but they were way older so we very rarely saw them but all five of us kids were adopted fostered something. You was all kept in the same room? So me Victoria and Aloma were in bunk beds in the same room yeah it was chaos. When did you see the first change? So this is it because everyone asked me like was it a gradual thing and no this went from zero to fucked up in like one night and I call it the crossing the line instant. Do you want me to do it? Of course. Cool. It's fucked up now because I've got a toddler mate. I'm sat there thinking as I'm recreating this in my mind I think of my own toddler there and it's fucked up with the head. So the crossing the line instant we were some chocolate went missing in the house and it just triggered something in her I've never seen her like that and she came around really angrily asking us like who took the chocolate? Who took the chocolate? And no one had taken the chocolate so she got three of us Aloma Victoria and myself and stood us in like a little semi circle and she asked us to take our shoes and socks off and like it was weird but we did it. She asked us like really upping our face like straight away who took the chocolate? Who took the chocolate? We all said no and then she very slowly walked to the corner of the room picked up a chair leg gnarly old chair leg that the dog used to chew and she just came over and whacked the tops of all of our feet slowly. Now we're not talking like a little love tap. She it was a proper assault and that's the first time I've ever felt pain like and yeah I'm probably four and a half come out five years old and yeah we all dropped to the floor like a total shock and she stood us all up who took the chocolate at this point we're crying our eyes out and none of us knew who took the chocolate. She started again and this went on for what seemed like days but it was probably like 20 minutes and eventually I think it was Victoria admitted to taking the chocolate even though she didn't just to stop it happening and yeah it was pretty fucked up situation. Who did take the chocolate? No one took the chocolate it was found in the garden with the dog so that whole thing had been fucked up. So is that when was it an everyday occurrence after that or did you get breaks? So that started a chain of events very quickly like even from that night onwards the discipline amped up. I'd say within a month we were getting beaten daily or she was obsessed with like Japanese torture and stuff so within a month we were running up and down stairs all night until one of us collapsed and then we could all go to bed and make us do like invisible chairs against the wall and it's pretty fucked up shit. How did she be so fascinated with Chinese torture? So we later found like books of what the Japanese had done to the Chinese in World War II and she was she must have become obsessed with it because she was like writing notes in the books and stuff and it was messed up stuff and you know everything she could do which didn't leave us with physical scars too much she would do like you know from drowning to you know sleep deprivation to eventually not feeding us and yeah. What was the host leak? So the house this was the house in Chuk Spree and it was alright it was after a while we ended up becoming like her I want to say slaves almost because we would clean the house you know cook the food take care of the younger brother like she was kind of treated like a queen. So the house was alright it was when we later moved into the farmhouse that like we really started if she was she lost the plot to us. Was there a man a room a father there like stepped on then anywhere they'd be seen just her? Just her just her sometimes her ex-husband would come on to the scene but it's like a handful of times literally. What about social services did they ever appear? So we had one or two visits from social but they were literally just door knocks and she'd parade us all out and we were okay and that was it you know I later came out to find and especially in the serious case review afterwards loads of people complained but because of her being a Jehovah's Witness it was deemed awkward for them to deal with so they just left it alone. Yeah I think is it the Amish community or I watched a documentary because of our own certain beliefs they can be left alone and do more cruel things to kids. Yeah there should be one law for kids protect kids anyone harm's a kid straight to prison yeah anyone sexual abuses a kid bullet in the head yeah that's my philosophy of it. If I ever become Prime Minister that's the two things I'm changing. You probably shouldn't become Prime Minister. Country would be one very different. See when was there any neighbors at the house I was at a free-for-all where they could hear your screams and pain. So in the Chuxbury house we did have neighbors both sides it was like a just a I want to say a councilor's day it was quite a nice councilor's day. I've lifted some bad ones things but it was later on when we were in the farmhouse like from age six onwards that was in the middle of nowhere nearest neighbor was you know 28 because I like she could have killed us and got away with it and probably tried quite a few times. When how long did you starve you for? So the worst starving my sister Victoria and I were locked in a room and we can't quite remember the exact times but it was we'd get a slice of bread a week type thing. We'd get water every two days. We literally were in a room with just a bed frame and floorboards. That was it and a nice window. You know I had rat droppings to get me through that. The room was infested with rats so it's fucked up me really fucked up shit. I had my sister's vomit yeah it's like pretty fucked up. Like I'm looking I look at it now I honestly think how the fuck did we survive that especially that one incident where we locked up I think we only survived that because her parents arrived and wanted to see all the kids so we ended up having to come down and have a meal but initially she'd put that meal in the room with us she told her grandparents her parents that we were being naughty so we were locked in the bedroom and she put the meal in the room and said if any of us touch it she'll end us. So we were starved for like a couple of weeks looking at this roast dinner sat there and that does weird things to you man. As you can see I've made up for it since. I've got all the food now but like when your your brain starts doing really weird shit when you've been denied food for a long time and like we were contemplating jumping out the window and actually opened the window but it only opened this much so we couldn't fit through. Like what is going through the mind of a eight-year-old like when you actually considering jumping out of a window because that's a better option than staying in the house that's mad. What were you thinking? It's hard to remember and think as such a baby is seven and eight not fully developed but was it normalized in your mind where you actually just accepted it or did you know deep inside Annie to get out of here or were you just accepting that maybe that's where every kid get treated or did you know that was wrong. So for us there was two sides of it especially when we were younger she would tell us that this was God's doing and genuinely we believed that initially like we were the devil's children she we'd been put in her care to rid us of demons so initially like I would pray every night I'd sit there praying like that the devil would leave me so that we could go back to living a happy life again and I remember praying to God and thanking him for me and her care like so initially we were like probably we were in her in her control it was when probably 10 11 years old that we really started like getting the thought that actually this this shit ain't right and you know I guess but she was on mum like you do some you know turn the world over for your mum wouldn't you like so even when we're late teens when you know we knew it was wrong we would have still supported it even when this all came out the police had to really work with us to actually cooperate with their investigation because we were going to protect her right into the courts yeah gonna protect the woman who was beating you up yeah my first police interview afterwards was actually I just told them that the whole thing was made up and you know she was an amazing mum that she only smacked us once or twice and literally went on the record in an interview and said that which is I look back now like fear and manipulation is a very powerful tool especially using against kids if they believe that it's normalized yeah that's a sad thing like there's so many people not just kids but adults who are in those relationships where they don't know how to get out absolutely so fearful absolutely do you know what I mean so see when you're going through all that look what sort of she used to drown you as well yeah so the thing is she had this thing do you want to wait for that or? I just let it that's a perfect time in mate for her welcome to London she had this thing where she needed us to be shocked by what she was doing so the daily beatings she'd have us lie on the floor feet up in the air and she'd beat the bottom of our souls she used to be a nurse so she knew what parts would bruise and what parts would scar for life so you know don't get me wrong we've got enough scars but if she'd done it on our backs and stuff we'd been it would have been noticed so after a while I could sit there and take a beating over my feet for like 20 minutes and not be bothered almost don't get around it hurt but that shock wasn't there anymore so this would literally send her crazy so she would have to find the next thing to you know raise the stakes even more so that was drowning and we this old farmhouse had this big like porcelain roll-top bath I think they call them that this was before they were cool and like we would be full bath she'd push us in there and the drivers of witnesses have got this thing where they when you get baptized like in the name of the Lord so she she said this was her you know her washing off the devil of us and she'd hold us under and there's a point where you're in the water where you have to let go of the air and she would wait 20 30 seconds after that and yeah the amount of time she probably got close to killing me doing that but no did you never just pretend to scream just to satisfy huh yeah initially yes and it worked for a while it did work for a while we play the victim but we we would like play up to get out of the beating sooner and then she realized what we're doing also there there was a time afterwards where actually there was a bit of defiance in us where we'd be like well what's the best you can do then like but that backfired really badly because then she we went through a stage where she just did crazy shit like putting our hands on like burners of cookers we had a like a rayburn like a big stove with a fire pit underneath it and it had this solid metal cooker top on which was always hot and as you're walking past you just grab your hand and put it on there for two seconds and it's like it was about shocking us at that point or we'd be sat asleep and she'd suddenly hit you across the back of the head with a baseball bat or something like I think my work one of my most fucked up memories is I'm pretty sure I died pretty sure I died was in old farmhouses you have sash windows inside those sash windows there's these big lead weights that hold the window let's it go up and down and I got hit across the back of the head with one of those and we're talking five kilos probably solid lump of metal and I blacked out and I just remember just peace that was the happiest I've ever felt it was fucking lovely and I'm pretty sure I was out gone and I woke up to my my sister alone basically bringing me round and that started off a thing where actually we ended up taking care of each other's injuries and you know she would break bones we'd end up with a broken arm so you'd get two pieces of baleine twine and tie your arm life had to go on we ran a farm the farm had to still work no scurrin or anything nothing she home scurrin she hope and so we went to school for a few days at the start yeah at the start while we're still in tricks free and it quite obviously quite quickly got noticed that we had bruises on us we're literally talking less than a week and also we she just started doing the food starving so I suddenly see a string of lunchboxes filled with food so I forget myself it's great these people bring food great and teachers notice that quite quickly that someone was sat in the corner with a hundred sandwiches try chow down they must have reported that I don't know what happened in the background but they must have reported because the day next day all of us got taken out of our separate schools and suddenly were home taught was that a hard plan to take these to a farmhouse where she could get away with the torch on the bus I think a lot of things added up well for her so the farmhouse was owned by this old chap called John Drake who was he was on his last legs he had really I think he had lung cancer and suddenly Eunice stepped in to help him take care of him in his last days he just happened to own a lot of land and this amazing farmhouse and a couple of days before his death he suddenly changed his will and left everything to Eunice's daughter and then he died all of a sudden from his oxygen ran out so could she have killed them I 100% believe she did 100% believe she did you know his oxygen didn't get turned on that night so he stepped like a nebuliser thing and he forgot to turn it on yeah I think she ended it really fucking weird that night she paraded us all in front of him as he was dead and to show our respects says this old man hunched up in a chair and dad if we're you know one in the morning you've got moonlight coming through the window it was a scary man six years old seeing you a dead person and she just made us watch him for 20 minutes like what a fucking cycle yeah easy go now when I was telling this story to the police initially I told them excitedly I have we saw this dead person and now I look back as an adult listen if people pass away grandparents or family members and you're a kid they're in the coffin you go for a two minutes with your family you pay respects but you're not sitting there saying look at that dead body was that to scare you that that's the way you could have been or was there any tactics behind that I don't know I don't know it definitely freaked us out it definitely freaked us out but suddenly she was suddenly you know given this farmhouse away from everyone and you know no one was there to watch for scars no one was there to watch for beatings or bruises or whatever so suddenly it was like the greatest gift ever for her because it says that she left her other daughters never touched them is that correct her real daughters so so her two real daughters I think they had a general Jehovah's Witness upbringing which was probably fucking weird but not torture weird yeah yeah shut but this is where it gets even fucking weird so Charlotte the eldest out of us five and my younger brother were never touched in fact they went through the total opposite where they were given everything you know and almost to a stupid level like my young brother was not allowed to tie his own shoelaces he was not allowed to get himself dressed we had to do all that for him it was almost as if he was like royalty like Lord Fondroy as I don't know which has fucked him up now though because like when we came into modern care he didn't have to wipe his own ass literally because we don't we had to even go to that level he couldn't tie shoelaces he couldn't even like get dressed on his own and he must have seen some of this all going on and you know we dealt with the police very early and said actually we will help you with the investigation but leave him alone like because we knew it was going to fuck him up even more so he's never really told his story which is kind of sad in some ways but yeah when does she tell you to the car and start driving around that was so it's hard to pin down certain years but I'd have been 10 11 years old and again we were at that point where nothing was scaring us anymore so you know even from like swallowing TCP and stuff every day and like we were just getting used to it so I can't remember what caused it and I thought I remembered that then my sister told me I was wrong it was something else but anyway something drove her mad and a few times she had tied me to the car and then I would follow the car and that's fine you'd walk behind the car and it was to tie us out or I don't know show intimidation I don't know this time she detached it to my foot and she just gunned it it was a big v8 transit van so it went and it was a small farmers trail alongside a freshly plowed field with you know furrows in it and I remember all I can remember from it to be honest is hitting that first furrow and thinking shit this guy hurt and from that I can't really remember and like my sister's described to me she probably drove a couple hundred meters and then just under the rope and walked off and my sister's ended up having to put me back together who was it seeing your sisters getting beaten up hard because we had become a really tight threesome and we would volunteer to take beatings I could probably take a bit more physical punishment than them they definitely took a lot more mental punishment like the humiliation that type of stuff so I would volunteer like I would own up to taking food to deal with the beatings more but sometimes she'd put us all in the same room and to watch another person get beaten and that there's two sides of it one you're desperately sorry for them and two also you know it's fucking coming around for you a second like it and you're trying out brave for each other but yeah there's only so much you can do right did you ever think about killing her are you too scared in the late later years yeah yeah and you know couple of shotguns on the farm could have done it there were times where there were a couple of times where she would swing from me and I'd grab whatever implement she had yeah the one day it was a hammer and I just grabbed it yeah we were teens at this point she was getting older and for about half a second in my head I was like right fuck this and then she I don't know we just didn't have it in us didn't yeah a mixture of feeling also she she was on mom why do you always refer her to your mom what I don't aim or I don't aim or but how did you keep her name it's tricky because illegal reasons mainly so to protect other identities in this case which I have to use that name legally so there will be a time where actually I stopped telling this story and we're probably close to that time now we're probably close to that time especially as I've become a dad and I'm very much on my own path now away from hers even though once in a while they do I'll pass still touch I actually saw her quite recently in a petrol station which freaked me the fuck out but you know it will be time soon to put that chapter to sleep and stop all the act of you know stop all the helping others and running charities and stuff put all that to sleep and actually just concentrate on my own life but that's really hard to do yeah that's maybe a weird question but did you love her or do you still part of your lover I know it's weird but it's hard with that like Stockholm syndrome yeah so it's just to try and understand it all three of us were told afterwards we had Stockholm quite badly and initially yeah initially we still love doing it it's very hard going to court against someone you love or have a lot of careful and but that went away for me when she said it was all made up even though the police had literally a vans worth of evidence literally a van they put cameras down our throats to see all the scars internally where she'd shoved knives and shit into us you know there was so much evidence you know and the fact we'd have been put through hell to get that evidence and then for her to still say no they're making it up that for me was the triggering point that's an ultimate psychopath and narcissistic in that case where she would always blame you you've got a thing of what she's done it's your fault yeah and whether she truly believed it or did she get psychiatric reports so the police took the quite rare step to actually test if she had mental issues and yeah she's psycho if she had issues normally the defense do that but the police actually took the steps to do that and they gave her a clean bill of health in the report that she just actually said she had evil tendencies was that no psychotic then having evil tendencies and having kids I don't even think you need reports to understand what you actually went through for me as she's a nutcase and I'm out now yeah it's just pure evil to the core I think some people are just pure evil and whether that's caused by a character or actual mental healthy she thought those well it's weird because people who kill it doesn't necessarily mean you're a psychopath Sara Sandswell of Tibet she killed her son's abuser an amazing woman nothing but she's a hero in my eyes so if you looked at another killer did she do time for that seven years they doubled her sentence yeah so and that takes courage because as a you're a dad I'm a dad I would do the same you've been through it you're doing everything to protect your kids yeah how what was the worst beating you ever had did you ever get the gun out into your anything no no she was very anti-gun very anti-gun the shotguns were on the farm from the old man so I don't know why she she never touched them legit is that was my thing I love going and shooting rabbits and so did you steep them yeah was that a mate mate we survived off the land what did she know this I think she must it's a vicious circle because you starve the kids eventually they have to steal food and then you can beat them again so it's this vicious circle of she was always gonna win so we started like we had chickens learned hundreds of fricking chickens and ducks and stuff so we would very carefully take a chicken and kill it and make sure it wasn't noticed and stuff we had to all we died especially when we were living in the farmhouse I happened to we were kicked out the farmhouse I had to live in this old caravan literally in the middle of the field at that point we did you know there's no electric in that caravan there's in the middle of the winter I would add like a little stove I'd make a fire and we survived around this little fire like I would when the vegetable when the vegetables were growing I'd make sure I put some aside for us and you know we'd lived off the land did you ever think about running so my sister ran when God I'd been about eight or nine the police founder brought about there was no investigation she must have told a really fucking good story like she must have been really convincing to the police and stuff because I actually went back to the farmhouse quite recently why I don't know I'm fucking sure to it closure yeah but it's also it's not far from where I live now probably 10 miles why did you move close to it do you think you're still connected to all massively massively and it I understand that I get yeah it freaks my partner out because I as I'm driving through that area I'm like that's my tree that's like and she's like no it's not even like she doesn't she doesn't quite get my relationship with it you know there's at the bottom of our land there's this river and I can't stop going to that river because actually some of my happiest memories was swimming in that river like so you had good memories as well we had some great memories like my favorite memories looking back now are this sounds fucking weird waking up in a field with my dog which was her dog but I nicked it surrounded by deer off the hills and there's a fog mist sunrise and I'm just sat watching these stags and what other kid gets to do that so in some ways I you know I've done stuff other kids haven't got to do like I caught fishing a river but I actually had to eat them but for me that's amazing like I don't look back I look back at the beatings as horrific they get wrong and the drownings and the injuries but the actual day-to-day living I kind of miss that happen to use your hands and survive yeah I still at home now I am more like we got the toddler and sometimes you have to stay in their bedroom don't you to get into freaking grossly and I'll lay on the floor next to the bed I am more comfortable laying on the floor than I am in my big king-sized I get it listen understand a bit of you the sniper he was world's longest sniper kill kill people was in a war zone bombs kids dying women dying people dying but he's more at peace in a war zone than he is yeah here so I totally understand then people make things fucking weird but you've got a mad connection to that love and hate yeah probably more hate but you've got a connection where you probably felt free times as well because you're fine finding for yourself yeah a psychologist on but I can only give my opinion from the people to be some catch yeah there's got to be some definite connection why you're still there and you've never maybe you've never really had proper closure to it what's the how many scars and injuries have you actually got I think they said I've got 143 scars injuries just ongoing ongoing like most of 2019 I spent in hospital choose to kidney injuries literally most of 2019 and like you go back on my insta it's months at a time in hospital what started off as just a small complication as they dug deeper and dug deeper like the amount of physical abuse we had taken just means my body can't recover was she drugging you are giving you oh god yeah we won fuck tons of drugs what sort so she was obsessed with the fact we had ADHD obsessed with the fact and so she would go to multiple private doctors and get various prescription drugs but she'd have like 10 different scripts for each of us and so we were on Rittlin like five six seven times a dose a day thing is Rittlin's in the speed family and while giving him very small doses does help kids supposedly when given at nine you're high as a fucking kite at least I got it that's why you stay so fucking close to bro just needed some happy trance me obviously it's fucked up but I laugh at the dark stuff because I think it is so fucked up I must be fucked up in the head because I think funny it is because it's so mad well I tell a chair leg joke at work you've got to mine and I'm sat there laughing my fucking ass off and they're like what the fuck is in to I'm I'm I'm dark that way when people dying funnels I'm the I'm the cat who's laughing yeah it's nerves and because I'm sad and my laughter and jokes is because I have been broken yeah nothing to your extent but I've seen a lot of dark stuff and been through a lot of dark stuff with family members and friends and the darkness of it the laughter is the beautiful fucking sound of I'm okay yeah laughing makes you feel okay yeah as the cheese it's the best medicine if you get older I don't tend to laugh as much as I used to because the thing become more serious I became more professional yeah I feel as if I say certain things people might take out a context but I just love that humor of dark humor laughing fucking taking the piss out of people myself it got me through my dark shit I miss that James and I'm gonna get them back me just just fucking laugh me just fucking make a joke of everything in life but when how what was your daily routine like so on the farm wake up 4 a.m depends if it's winter or summer if it was summer I'd wake up in the field literally dog amazing fucking what sort of dog a big lab but I'm talking a big lab I think it was mixed with a roti I love I've got a lot yeah yeah you know that big he had that lab head big rottweiler body like I miss that dog so much I can't tell you I've got a fucking cockapoo now I've got a fucking cockapoo now with the white picket fans how times are changed but I miss the relationship I had that dog that dog kept me alive mate it would in the wind through right sit on my chest and keep me warm like I fucking miss that dog she hadn't put down in the end why I think just as the final fuck you he was only about eight or nine years old it was perfect health and then she claims she couldn't this was while the court case was going on she claims she couldn't look after him so he was put down like yeah that for me that's the one where I've got the shotgun and blur fucking head off yeah it's the love and the compassion and they say men are more likely to stay alive for the dogs yeah keep fat keep walking the exercise the love that loving chemical yeah just the purity of their smile and their happiness and yeah hard work as well let's be honest but yeah it's just something where they never speak back they never want to hurt you they've always got your back no matter what you do no matter if you're in a cardboard box at a big mansion your dog sitting right next to you yeah through ficking finn that days happy days just dogs are the best thing on this planet if everybody could be like a dog the world be the best place ever I think they should be able to prescribe dogs yeah not not in all seriousness because dogs could get her etc yeah of course but time with a dog is incredible and that's still my go-to time like most evenings sunset dog me in a field walking around that's still my reset shit day take the dog out when was it all coming to a head then when you're not feeling as if you were getting stronger you could then handle yourself will be just totally in fear other this you are thinking okay this is that to change here where things can maybe so the daily beatings started to stop why because I think she started realizing we could probably killer so she was still doing shock attacks so well coming around hitting you with a baseball bat or something so when you least expect it or pouring hot water over you when you're asleep or something yeah it was things you couldn't predict so you couldn't defend yourself from but as we game into late teens we were starting to get antsy starting to get yeah we we weren't as controllable so alone my other sister she got dropped off in the middle of Bristol with a hundred quid that was it women's I think she paid for a women's refuge like YMCA or something for for a week and that was it she was done because alone I think was about to run away permanently so for her to get some control on it she's dropped alone off and who was that for you um are you happy or sad on that very day quite happy because we don't argue fuck you get out the car but it felt like our team had been broken up it was like yeah we were proper threesome and she'd split that and then it was just me and Victoria left at that point and you know I didn't speak to a loam of till the police got involved so it's like four years without any contact with my sister it's mad and then I'd started going a bit nuts just running off randomly hiking like up the hills and she sent me off to live with her parents who only lived down the road but her dad was very disabled so needed someone physically strong to like help me move around the house and stuff so actually that was okay for me because there was no abuse I got fed and I had a little bit more freedom so this was the beginning of the end for me and I thought yeah I think she was going to do the same drop me off somewhere give me some money and send me on my way I was expecting that any moment um what I didn't realize is the police had started a very big investigation into Eunice that was going on in the background I had no idea how did they know so Victoria was still going to church and she was in a wheelchair and Eunice never stopped abusing Victoria um like I'd got to the point she couldn't really beat me I could walk away um Victoria's in a wheelchair yeah because that's through the car crash what what happened with the car crash car crash is fucked up man car crash is fucked up so we've been on a couple of holidays and I need to tell you about Florida after this Florida is even more fucked up but car crash we were on the way back from Pontines not the best place in the world don't recommend two out of five uh on the way back from Pontines um were in different vehicles and there's massive traffic jams all the way but we get back and they're not behind us and um Eunice starts ringing Judith her eldest daughter's phone no answer no answer and three four hours go by this traffic jam must be awful like if they're still stuck in it and then that police car pulls up outside the house and instantly I know like I know like there's an accident something's happened and the police took Eunice into a room and must have told her there'd been an accident um as she was walking out the house I was like what's wrong what's wrong she just blanked me totally got into the police car and whizzed off um the Jehovah's Witness community then took care of us that evening uh which was weird being in a normal bed in a normal house um eating food at a table for me um and then the next day we got driven to French a hospital in Bristol and I in my head I'd been praying all night that everyone was all right and then while I wait a hospital so everyone must be all right um Eunice takes us into a side room and just sits us down and goes Charlotte and Judith are dead and I wish it was you that was it and then just walked out right so within five seconds you've just been told your two sisters are dead and also that slept around the face as well that I wish it was you right what the fuck what were you thinking then can you remember I I can't really remember do you blame yourself for a lot of things oh god I I still blame myself but I was meant to be in that car I was meant to be where Charlotte was uh it was only because I was I can't argue with my little brother that I wasn't in that car um I would be dead and I look back now and go you know don't get wrong I'm happy to be alive but Charlotte you know Charlotte did nothing wrong yeah who was driving that car so Eunice's real daughter Judith did she know about the abuse of daughters she joined in a few times nowhere near as bad as Eunice but did they ever get challenged oh she's dead she killed herself no no no she died in the car crash fuck yeah fuck sake so yeah I thought it was the other two I thought it was so there was her two daughters good riddance to the car then fucking bitch there is a bit of that there is a bit of that do you know what I mean if she's so Charlotte died and Judith died they were both in the front seats and yeah well fuck her then if she's abusing kids and torturing kids and good riddance she would I also feel a bit bad or diffuse were they or were they pressured into doing that which is different yeah that's what I think becoming if they're just joining in for the sake of it and bullying and yeah yeah I think she was under the spell I think she was under the spell yeah so yeah god rest her soul then but um how old was she I think she was late 20s yeah she's a young yeah but then again if she knows this was going on she could have still spoke out yeah like she had she had a normal life she could at any point like going out and out fuck her then again and that I'll take that back you flip-flopped on this when I'm talking to her I wasn't sure and I'm thinking I was she only 19 or was she abused herself but yeah if she's out and she's she knows about the abuse and she's she never again it could be fear you know yourself you've done a statement it retracted that so I understand so I'll sit in the fence for that when I take it back I apologize Richard god rest her soul but but if she's still abusing it's still hard to yeah I forgive I look back now and she could have changed everything yeah multiple times like she worked in a normal job she could have like she knew what normality was and what this was whereas we didn't know what normality was yeah it's definitely she was just in that house yeah and that's all she knew yeah but she's in a normal job look caring people around that and then go into the torture chamber yeah she knows so there comes a time you you go wait a minute that's not normal she if she was part of it as well what sort of stuff did she get her daughters to do so only her eldest daughter um her younger daughter Becky um she moved out at 18 she must like before we arrived um and she had very little contact with the anus she I think she knew how fucking nuts she was and she actually ended up testifying against you in court so fair play to her yeah I like that and we tried to keep a relationship after all this but um it's fucking weird let's be honest like yeah people just want to kind of forget it and move on I think she's gone on and done around things like she used to like come down and see us and stuff and actually it's like we're just dragging your life through it yeah back over the emotion yeah what you're talking about with Florida what happened so she took your way as well oh Florida's fucked up I keep saying everything's fucked up that's all fucked up me fucked up um so okay it's good you can lally if I fucking me and it's fucking good isn't it yeah yeah but Florida was the weirdest fucking thing ever because we did not get abused at all so from the moment we arrived at Gatwick airport and flew business class bougie to Florida we did not got no abuse what age would use uh I'd have been it's 98 so I'd have been 10 10 11 you were at that stage ever think about screaming or running are we just happy to go in Florida well in my mind I'm like okay we must be cleared of the devil and this is our treat because she was hugging me at the airport um I actually had never flown long haul so I ended up shitting myself it's as you did I woke up off shit I've shit myself um she lovingly dealt with that like no embarrassment like um cuddled up in the car like there was no abuse we were fed normally and we were in a villa in the middle of nowhere so she could have done carried on we went to theme parks all as a family uh we'd get all the photos afterwards we'd get toys Florida was a dream we went to Cape Canaveral we went to a cruise we went you know we we were out there for fucking donkeys yes and it was incredible she must have spent probably 100 grand out there don't know where she got the money from we still don't know that but you know probably the best holiday a kid could wish for everything but sea world swam with dolphins and all that shit and we're like this must be it you know it's over we land at the airport back home again business class very nice and still everything's fine we get home and someone's left the electric heater on for the like immersion heater in the tank and there's it's bubbled over a bit and caused a bit of damage we were beaten to within an inch of our life that day it's like how can you switch from perfect mum probably dream mum to evil again and the space of a flight why did she take these i didn't need to so charlotte always wanted to go but it's sort of a character for yeah that all the stuff that you went through and she's doing that but again it's a manipulation of loving at the airport because it's nobody will say anything it's just an operation tactics so so but she could have abused us abused us all throughout florida like we were literally a villa and we wouldn't have said anything let's be honest we were under the spell um you know she didn't have to spend hundreds of pounds on fancy restaurants for us she could have just given us scraps at home was there ever any sexual abuse oh god yeah was that yeah it's early years yeah um i haven't really gone into that but yeah it got sexual at times i don't know about my sisters but you know it was pretty shit um yeah it's fucked up part of me thinks they're in there are days i can't remember in florida and part of me thinks that whole thing was a sexual abuse thing and that's the reason she was being nice to us well she'd have friends over to the florida house and i i personally think we were sexually abused on that trip and drug dot to eyeballs because we were being drugged up to our eyeballs on vittaline and all sorts of sedatives and stuff i think we were abused on that trip and that's the reason we got taken over but i have no literally no proof for that pd for your ring yeah that's just my personal opinion though i i have literally no proof for that but it was so out of character for us to be taken out of that abusive situation suddenly dressed normally dressed cute and taken to this really nice villa that's why i asked because that's so a character so for me has she got money to take and that was a lot of money and this thing kids to fucking pd files where if you're drugged up all the time you wake up you don't know what the fuck's happened yeah yeah and there were parties at that villa i can't remember myself so you know i've definitely got thoughts of what happened out there but i'm never going to be had to prove it is that easier for you though just to not feel as if oh maybe it did maybe it didn't but depending you don't really want to do it too much if if someone ever presented me photos i think that would break me again um it's it's it's almost better not knowing sometimes isn't it um yeah it depends if i look cute in those photos i'm sorry humor's your fucking defense mate that's the thing it's kept you alive yeah same as myself never been through the extent you've been through but the humor that's all we've got man that's we can it's the ultimate defense but also it's ultimate release as well yeah we think you know what it's fucked up i'm just gonna laugh today yeah you know what i mean some fucking scary dream comedy that fucking madness but i get it that's when i get it and i'll laugh with you know all day long but not i'm not laughing at you i'm laughing i get it just at the fucking madness pure madness of it because it is what an evil bastard this insanity mate but after that then when did the shit hit the fan when did it all come on top for her did she know this so and how did the investigation start so they started invest my sister kept going to church covered in scars fresh scars and a couple of members of that church stepped out of line and were like you've got to tell us what's going on we know something's going wrong and we're not gonna let you go home until you tell us so they stepped way out of the church's path and they probably suffered themselves for that victoria eventually broke down and told them some of it and they were like whoa this is fucked up so they immediately called police police came and started investigating and put victoria in a safe house so unis knew this was coming because suddenly victoria has disappeared uh the church has witnessed this kind of lied and said she's just moved on because she's you know 19 she can do that um but i think unis knew the end was coming quickly of course i'm down the road i have no idea what's going on no idea so i decided one day to run away and i stole a butcher's bike bike with a big basket on it i'm fucking i'm i'm going i'm out mate i'm i'm outy uh so i laid to find out johova's witnesses and the police this really upset their fucking plans that was going on so they all start hunting for me and uh i was found by a couple of johova's witnesses who happened to be the ones who were dealing with my sister and they start asking loads of fucking questions right and i i go with them because i'm like i do need to go back this is stupid and that and then suddenly the police arrive and they start like taking photos of my legs and stuff and like i'm like i only ran away like you know it's all cool and they're loads of questions so i ended up going back to unis's parents and then a couple of days later shit hits the fan mate and i get that knock on the door and they done a raid on our boat they done a raid on both houses um some other properties it was massive and they had a helicopter up and of course she was arrested for 29 charges or something crazy um i didn't know she'd been arrested i was just literally told police men knocked on the door they sent a fucking dog man for me they could have sent a nice way lovely soft police woman or something like no they sent the dog man for me he's actually a really good friend of mine now um but yeah they sent the dog man and knocks the door your mum's been arrested could you come with me i was like not today and closed the door i was still officers eventually i get the picture um i ended up going to the police station for the first time and i denied everything mate i denied everything i'm sat there my little brother was had been put in the same car as me and we she'd always taught us like deny everything like because johova will protect you and all this shit um so yeah i denied everything and the police started making phone calls and i would go go visit your sister who you haven't seen in ages victoria who was in a wheelchair so i'm like yeah yeah let's go do that um so we get taken to the hospital i'm like why is she in a hospital i'm get um i walk up to the child's world she's in there i open the door and she gets out of her wheelchair and walks to me this is someone who'd been paralyzed from the waist down since that car accident and the fucking horrible thing is unis had never let her get physio and it turns out she wasn't paralyzed at all unis just kept reactivating the injury so this whole time four years of her five years of her life she could have been walking and unis saw compensation didn't she so yeah there were no car crash your sister she had horrific injured but the hospital says we'll keep her here for a couple of months to yeah give up she took about yeah we'll get a treatment we'll get her walking again but she took her out early kept her in the wheelchair for 34 years to claim benefits yeah and actually make the injuries worse because she can keep claiming yeah that's evil to the ultimate that's next level shit and don't get me wrong victoria had horrific injuries she had like stomach removed with the bag and she had spinal injuries she every bone was pretty much fat yeah the reason how she survived especially with the jehovah's witnesses because they didn't want her to have blood transfusions so why so jehovah's witnesses don't like foreign blood going into our bodies so they'd rather you die on the table than have a blood transfusion it's just a jehovah's witness thing and it's fucked up so eventually they doctors overrode them that is rare that's happened like 10 times in this country so and she survived but yeah she she walked to me mate she fucking walked to me and that at that point my world came crashing down because everything i'd known to that point was a lie yeah was that is that when it all sank in that yeah that's been through in life what age were you i would be 16 so still young adult yeah well imagine we're 16 men physically mentally we're probably yeah still kids because he's missed school and could you read her right uh we taught ourselves to read and write so eloma was the only one who could read and write and she taught us to read and write so we'd never had any education so what was it like when she get charged and you had to go to court was it just a law a kind of blur was it like a dream nightmare so court a lot of shit had gone on in between like we went into foster care again and learning to live again very weird mate very weird having to start getting education medical care i'd never had an injection in my life so having to catch up with all the things kids have and just madness um and so much it made medical issues to sort by the time the court yes two long years by the time the court case rolls round and the police were slowly preparing us they took us to the court to view it and all that shit it still doesn't prepare you for walking into that court knowing you'll have to tell your story and it's you versus them you know you can have all the evidence in there but in your head you're like what happens if they don't believe me like and we were behind a curtain i'm the fucking muppet who walked in the room early didn't i so i ended up seeing her and she's just staring at me staring at me that freed me out that freed me out um i found giving evidence really hard um i kept getting angry kept getting really angry like when they'd ask the question that it was almost like a personal attack so i'd be cross-examined and it just felt like a personal attack all the time as an 18 year old dealing with a lot of anger issues at that point i just want to kill the fucking qc um but you know eventually she she played not guilty to everything so we had to go through the court and they found a guilty on everything that you everything um and she got sentenced to 14 years which i believe was the longest child abuse sentence given in the uk which is stupid doesn't it um the judge said it was the worst case he'd ever dealt with in his life and gave the maximum he was allowed um but of course in this country you serve seven don't you they should not get a sentence reduced uh yeah and she got two years removed why um they argued over one charge or something so the court let her remove two years how was that feeling going through all the court cases and all the statements retracting straight statements did you ever feel as if you're making it all up in your mind and yeah yeah yeah yeah and you start doubting yourself or did i remember that correctly like or you know um and you're thinking well maybe this is what every family is like so yeah am i taking this too far etc i tried to pull out the court case multiple times um i tried to get a criminal record because i knew if i got a criminal record i couldn't testify easily either being a slanted witness so they remove me that's clear this is it so i stole my foster parents car and drove it to cardiff i had a way of time no license at the time or anything but i'd been taking lessons and drove the car then felt really fucking guilty so put no oil in it washed it and waxed it and put it back on the drive and the foster parents were just so happy to see it again that they didn't press charges so i'm like all that fucking effort see when she got a guilty those was that a sense of relief that well wait a minute everything that we went through wasn't normal and you were happy did you feel sorry for her when she got sentenced to guilty eyes at work and eyes in staff canteen and it came up on the news did people know it was you so certain staff did i'd kept quite quiet about it to be honest but certain staff did my management and stuff and i remember it it didn't sink in for me until a colleague the other side of the room lady she just went that fucking cow got what she deserved and that was the moment where actually it kind of just that little comment i don't know it just was like oh shit it's over in it it was it was exactly what i needed at that point and but then as you know the media starts and suddenly your flavour of the week yeah yeah and then the real mental issues start because in some ways you've been distracted by that court case so for two years you haven't had to deal with the emotions and stuff and suddenly everyone's asking your story yeah james using everybody's misery for my own gain but um yeah as she said your flavour of the week and having pressed follow you that was weird the sun man the sun do some weird cheer they really did they benefit you though did it was that positive for you or did any of them try and blame you um it was all positive positive um no one had an angle on me um thankfully because i don't know mentally how to dealt with that um but yeah it was it was intense and then at that point i'd also met my real family my real mum and dad came back into the picture and initially they were were they clean no they were they tried mate they tried is that because the senior on tv did they remember who you were well so no social got involved uh so sure like you've got real parents did they ever try and reach out they when you're with them they said they had i don't know i don't know i try and not think on that one too much i think they could have done a lot more but addictions are it's a horrible thing it it is a horrible thing and it you know they tried bless them but it's heartbreaking to think that that's where the abandonment kicks in was not good enough was that some sort of fucked up kid was a what was on my previous life i don't know how you think but people look into all these angles and they blame themselves how horrible i could desire that my mum and dad fucking did them on us but when you if they've got addictions and stuff they don't even know their backstory where the shit that they've maybe been through but it's hard man every parent should do everything they can to protect their kids and we can see that now because we're yeah i'm in a good place now but it's just the way it is and what was it like seeing him for the first time was i didn't want to see him was her anger yeah proper anger so my brother they're a weird couple mate my mum was like 30 stone and my dad was about seven stone so it was fucking weird to see still with each other yeah yeah they'd stayed with each other for donkeys years to have any other kids uh not so yes and no i don't know i think they'd let kids go before us um and i've tried to make contact with those kids but um we've decided actually that's their life that's ours let's keep it apart um but yeah meeting them for i struggled with that i yeah why the fuck do you come back into my life now you could have you know helped me all this time my brother loved him brother went full in so i kind of stayed around for him yeah and dealt with them and then i did grow a relationship with them but it was it was not the right relationship mate like they bought me a grandma code for my 18th birthday like it was good count even that's why you kept going back fucks sake sat here all in and said you like your drugs mate i tell you that for much i i don't regret any of the drugs i tried i gave you a grandma gear that's all they know yeah they probably think they're actually being good and that's a sad reality that is the sad reality but they don't see the destruction i ended up with i wrote a book and i ended up with some real money what is the book so book is child see my christopher spry um available all good retailers yeah listen man we're here for business as well working people buy your book people will be shown so amazon's the best place yeah i'll leave the link in the description and stuff like i say man get make your money out there misery yeah absolutely okay so how was it writing the book um i found it quite easy so a lot of people say it's therapeutic yeah like i'm sure you've interviewed lots of people it's like i'll writing it's therapeutic i just found it annoying i just wanted to get it over and done with as quick as possible so i could get my last check um i was in a bad place where i was starting to go down drink alcohol drink alcohol drink dogs yeah and my parents weren't helping with that and suddenly it's only years later i realized about 40 grand i wasted on them trying to buy their love did they come back for financial gain i don't think they did but they rode the financial gain trained very well i think so do that yeah and you know i bought i bought myself a nice watch uh a nice tag and my dad just thought oh that's fucking nice so i'm like he needs one so i went and bought him a tag there was none of that no son like this is fucking stupid like keep your money invest it it was thanks son should we go out for dinner dinner was on me um i wasted so much money if i look back at an adult head now like they they took advantage of me i don't know if they even knew they were doing it but yeah they did take advantage of me did you ever get therapy um very recently so i'll tell you as a dad it's hearing a baby cry really fucked with my head to the point i had to walk out of the room um it's a very reason i accepted actually there's something not yeah there's something i need to get right with that so i went to a specialist did some courses with her helped me tons helped me literally tons to the point you know few sessions in i could deal with him crying and yeah that's the first time i've ever really needed therapy i did try general counselling a few times but i ended up counselling them i think and and also like i don't like i tell my story with a bit of comedy yeah of course it's pretty fucked up you can't do that in counselling can you and why are you laughing yeah take me back to that moment yeah yeah and you end up crying just let me laugh it gets me through so you take away that humor makes me feel vulnerable yeah i didn't want to feel vulnerable so i started like not going to these sessions and yeah i've managed to cope mostly on my own yeah like i say you've got a good spirit everything you've came through and i think that's what keeps you alive yeah taking stripping all that back and trying to listen we've got to face the problems to heal yeah it's a given but there comes a times we have got to flip the chapter and then sometimes the more you tell the story the more it doesn't actually have that meaning yeah you can't take that that sticky connection where you actually just laugh at how fucked up it was and how messy it was yeah how was it then the last few years to be getting on with that and tearing your story it's out there in the public domain and how's it is it easier it's it's easier and i i never knew it was going to have the reaction with other victims i never saw that coming never saw that coming so the first time i ever told my story uh on the this morning actually with scofill he's really sure i'm just going to put it that way he's really sure uh we won't talk about phil let's go Phil um he did somewhere no i wasn't pretty enough um but i my facebook had just come around properly back then and the first time i told that story i got flooded by other victims who weren't ready to tell their story or weren't ready to go to the police but just needed to tell someone i wasn't ready for that that was 1300 messages in a day of different victims and it's been like that ever since so now there's a few of us who every time you know once this podcast goes out there will be reaction from other victims they're welcome and that's the reason i do it it's one raise awareness that this type of thing can happen to everyone so we should be vigilant and to like tell your story like seek justice you know yeah or if they just need someone to chat to and tell them actually the thing you're feeling now that's normal like the shit you went through wasn't right whatever stepdad says that isn't okay how common is it here because your story it seems it's got an american american touch to it but i'm not i'm not saying every americans are like that but that's the kind of documentaries and series he's a c it's a kind of american families who do that sort of torture they had an amazing man on steven smith years ago it's one of my first ever podcast he was a boy in the cellar locked him in the basement for 13 years tortured them didn't know so it's got how common is it here in the uk so extreme cases quite rare or that we know of extreme cases like that actual i'd say the main thing i come across is kids witnessing domestic abuse we've got a massive problem in the uk with that yeah and that domestic abuse spills to the kids and that's what most of my emails are about and they're really hard to read mate i'm not gonna lie and a lot of you know uncle's molesting kids and stuff like that so i very rarely get a physical abuse email it's mainly sexual and domestic abuse which are all fucking well how was it becoming our father did you ever worry that you could have toned out to be like 100 percent 100 and the the weird thoughts you know when coming up to the pregnancy and stuff um yeah am i worthy of having a kid am i capable of having a kid like um head of justice to social services once told me abused kids abuse thanks mate how can they say that not everyone not every kid who gets sexually abused or physically abused then becomes the same it does happen it does happen yeah but yeah that's why i asked the question did you ever think but i think every man thinks they're never good enough or can the other edit be a dad they're actually normal things yeah yeah but because of your circumstances and the stuff you start overthinking yeah it would enhance that paranoia yeah and there's a lot of i'll tell you what you know toddlers fall down all the time yeah and he had a little bruise on his elbow and i was paranoid everyone's gonna think um i've abused my kid and this was the first day i'm dropping him off a nursery i'm like everyone's gonna think i'm abusing him everyone's gonna think as i walked through the door the kid that ran towards me was covered in bruises i'm like actually this is normal ain't it yeah it's not always fun show this is it and actually he's the most freaking clumsy little bastard ever so um but i was paranoid people had judged me based on my past actually it doesn't happen but in my brain of course but every man like and probably female would get paranoia but with your circumstances so it's you can people can understand that yeah how was it because she's free now yeah yeah how is that feeling did that did you ever want to reach out or how so i've never wanted to reach out but i know victoria who sadly is dead now um she killed herself she killed herself yeah quite recently um she did want to reach out but she was also terrified of her at the same time victoria never let go victoria could never let go of move on from that situation and that was your sister uh she wasn't my real sister yeah that was her daughter uh adopted so yeah legally her daughter yeah um but she was getting abused before yours victoria a little uh yeah for about a year before we arrived yeah so you know victoria she victoria probably had the worst set of cards played because she was in the car accident she's in a wheelchair she's got all those internal injuries um i think she became addicted to prescription drugs trying to deal with that constant pain as you know that's a slippery fucking slope so um they were giving a fentanyl and all sorts of horrific drugs and that was a very hard day because we'd actually we kind of had a love hate relationship every time we met we ended up talking about unis so we didn't meet anymore i knew where she was i kept tabs on her but that sounds terrible it's a bit spotlight um but we didn't have that day-to-day interaction because actually we were friction based on our past but having that police car drive up to your house for one it reminded me of the charge yeah but having that police car drive it to the house and it's the way they walk up to your door you just know no something's not right yeah now i expected it to be my dad who is still alive my mom isn't anymore but um so when he said um your sister has died oh it was shocking it was shocking and like how did she end her life uh how she hung herself mate out of all the ways to go like it's like why did she want to meet her i don't know i don't know she she had many like she went on record saying she was terrified that unis was in within 20 miles but then also she'd write a facebook comment like um yeah calling a mum still and stuff and she struggled she struggled and i don't think she really got the help because no one knew how to deal with her like these cases aren't popular enough thank god that there's training for it you know no one really knew how to deal with her she had an amazing partner who did everything for her and he was the one who found her and it's like what about the woman who's abused your whole life and torture jane you and your brothers and sisters she'd get 14 years of sentence reduced to 12 she's out now what would you do if she ever apologized i i don't have a thing she would i don't i don't think she ever would what if she did i would always mistrust it i wouldn't believe it yeah i'd be like it's bullshit you said you seen her that what was it like what was that feeling so this was quite recent this is uh may um i saw a i rolled at a petrol station went to fill fuel and she was just walking at the petrol station i'll fuck she didn't see me uh oh we didn't make eye contact to anything um you know i've got a crazy colleague who was like should have stabbed her mate should have stabbed her in the eyeballs i'm like actually i don't even hate the woman anymore it's like she's nothing to me now i make that point in my brain where i've let go of it all there's no there's no real anger there anymore but that's a good thing i think if you hold onto that anger it eats away you like a poison and that's a strong position to be in yeah to then let go and actually because i've been i've spoke about it a few times i'd jeff tomson on who's one of the most ruthless men on the planet he's a ninth dan martial arts expert and his karate instructor abused him when he was 11 or 12 and he always had the thoughts of killing him he became a bouncer he was ruthless then he became a martial arts expert but this guy's a stone cold killer he's fucking ready to go and when he'd seen his abuser in the the cafe he froze froze still had that power but he said to him this is what you're doing and then that day he got his power back so you're saying her the rap petrol station kind of just gives you your power back yeah hey it was definitely closure for me it was like where do you go forward for the future brother um book two now listen make money from the misery mate fucking because it is sad as it is and it's also a positive but people love these stories yeah it makes their life go away a minute my life and it's fucking bad it actually makes people happier for some reason people still feel sad and sorry for the victims we get up but it actually makes people well it makes them realize what if i got them on it i would even release it for free but um a lot of people use my first book as proof that you can get through it yeah so that's the you know that's the reason i'm here like you know you're lovely to me and all that but at least i got one conflict with me um you know it's it's about raising awareness and about showing that actually you can go through all that and actually you can make it to normality you've just got to like put the right steps in place that's like i say these sort of stories well it helps survivors it helps people come forward and that's a strength you need to listen and there's so they ask sometimes but you would get them more constant because you've lived up people are looking for answers and i get out where you then become at the forefront to say well this is what i get through and i've interviewed a lot of survivors and you can see the destruction in their eyes that you're so but you've still got it together with the laughter and it's an amazing thing to see and so i'm proud of you for everything you're doing and trying to do for anybody that's maybe going through what you went through the abusive relationship or that they're just because we've got social media now so people can sort of reach out yeah but what if anybody was struggling and and that sort of environment what advice would you have for them um talk because um the main thing is if you keep it all bottled up it's it's gonna fucking kill you eventually it's going to end you um you know it doesn't have to be the police doesn't have to be um yeah even just even call samaritans or something just talk it out um but i would i'd also say everyone in everyone should have a shot of justice i'm massive for that and i i think all the you know if if you don't deal with these abusers they'll just go on to abuse other people so i think you're doing yourself an injustice if you don't go out and get justice for what's happened to you but also just keep your chin up keep your chin up there is a future after abuse and you know if you're going through abuse now please seek help but if you've had abuse in the past like you know there is a future can i say boy would you like to finish up on anything else that's me what's your social media and stuff for people to maybe get in contact um we'll drop them below because i can't i think my instagram's christopher dot sprite 88 that's the boy lesson nothing about respect for you brother wish you all the best for the future god bless you thank you