 The first panel that we are doing on outdoor because last three months there was not much to talk on outdoor because all of us were locked inside our homes and but now with the lockdown 5.0 a lot of restrictions have been eased and a lot of us are going out and that is why we have given this the topic outdoor advertising going into reboot mode. So I have a very very esteemed panel with me today I'm going to introduce them in I think this is an alphabetical order all of you are equally important to us. So I have Mr. Anjali Krishnan head of media model is India. I have Ms. Anisha Agarwal country media leader IKEA India. Mr. Atul Sivastav good CEO Lakshmedia group Mr. Harish Nayak group MD postoscope South Asia and president postoscope Etac Mr. Jayesh Yagnik CEO mom's outdoor media solutions and Mr. Rishabh Mehta founder and CEO look at private limited welcome all of you to the panel and thank you so much for taking out time for us. I want to start this panel on a positive note we all know that outdoor was one of the worst hit sector during the lockdown period but now that people are all already there's movement to go out you Delhi and Bombay are already some parts of Delhi and Bombay are already porting traffic jams rural is by and large open. So what is the future and where do you see the recovery if I can start with Mr. Sivastav or Mr. Nayak either one of you can answer this question. Or Mr. Sivastav can start. Okay. See I'll consider this is a typical 2020 match where we have lost five overs because of the lanes but the game is yet to begin and 15 overs are still left. So definitely we have lost one full quarter when almost we could achieve on the 20% what billions we normally do in the Cuban so in luxury definitely around 20% of building we could achieve we are going to touch that by the end of this quarter. But we are very very hopeful very positive about the remaining months. July onwards we can see that occupancy will be in the range of 35 to 40% or it may even touch 50% also. And after that Diwali season and festival season is there wherein we are very confident that this is going to be one of the best Diwali in the last 10 years. And since most of the clients have not spent their budget and various other mediums like budget from events are not going to be spent so much. Budgets on print media definitely some of the clients have spoken to us and they have indicated if they are not going to be very aggressive on print media. Cinema will not be that important for at least for nice 3-4 months. So I am assuming that all these advantages I tell is not going to be there. Still clarity is not there. So all these factors are going to help outdoor. All these budgets may not be 100% maybe 20% maybe 50% of these budgets but some amount will definitely come to outdoor which is going to help the industry. Harish you want to add to it? I think our view has been on a very positive side. I mean internally we all are very very happy with whatever the situation. I think positivity is very very important to look at any problem areas for us. Luckily being a global leader in the business access to information was there and we were able to actually foresight we spoke to our colleagues in China and a couple of other countries and anticipated what are the challenges ahead. And I think we were able to plan our first 60 days first 30-35 days we had. If you can tell us what were these challenges? I mean what did you learn from the China market? Yeah so obviously coming to the challenges is basically look at the slowdown, there will be total closure, people won't go and you know the impact on the out-of-home industry will be the highest. But the important thing important learning which came out was how do you handle these three months of gap and how do you still strive forward was a big learning which came out. Obviously we all know the financial challenges the emotional mental challenges and the pressures which will come internally as well as externally. So obviously those were the big challenges but I think internally we looked at these four five challenges and we thought that it's as you have rightly voted you know rebooting ourselves. So for 30-35 days we spend a lot of time on training ourselves because the new normal is going to be where three or four months all the clients are going to have video meetings and all. So how do you prepare yourself? What is the voice modulation? What are the ways of presenting yourself on a video? So a lot of such areas we looked into. In fact you know if you look at the work which you've done both in terms of you know getting our backend right. So a lot of focus was there on backend be it you know creating newer services for our clients where we invented a lot of new services post COVID office opening solutions to CSR a lot of CSR work which we did a lot of work which we were able to pull it off because of our access be it in the out of home space or in the real marketing space. We looked at green zones and you know we reached out to clients and we looked at you know whether we can do some activity. So we've been doing some of the other work for last 15-20 days now. So obviously challenges will come but I think the session which talks about how do you reboot yourself and how do you look at positivity and how do you overcome challenges is what we've really looked into and worked upon in the last 60 days. Mr. Shah would you want to add to it? Mr. Shah there. Oh sorry Mr. Mehta. So sorry. I was wondering who Mr. Shah was. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. Mr. Mehta. So I think I completely agree with the both up till in a race in terms of the positivity and the way we are looking at moving forward post rather continuation of the COVID era. I think the major positive or the rather silver lining that has been is the transition to digital. That transition has been pretty fast and I think now all stakeholders really realize the importance of going digitally realize the importance of using technology whether it's a media owner agency or a brand over the last 30 to 45 days. We've had some very encouraging and interesting talks with all the stakeholders and we've in the process rolled out very interesting things on the say for example just to share some insights on our planning tool. We incorporated the COVID APIs where we now instantly all stakeholders can visualize where are the green areas and what are the opportunities for them to pick up sites which are in green areas and do the planning. Look at more digital out of home as well because in these current times there are societies which are open where since everybody is working from home it's important to look at new touch points. We have an entire section on that but if you want to speak about it now you can. So I think it's been great for us because what we've been trying to do over the last four and a half years in terms of bringing in more transparency getting people to use more digital technologies that's really playing through now and we've also at the same time rolled out in a couple of other markets where things are slightly better. So we rolled out in Latin America as of last week and in Southeast Asia in a couple of countries as well. So things are improving we are very positive but in India as well we will head back fairly strong over the next two quarters. FMCG has already seen pretty much near comeback level in terms of pre-COVID and situations now. So I think things are only going to go better healthcare is another sector which is really looking up BFSI again they wouldn't look up. So I think overall we are very positive that over the next quarter or so the jump is going to be back to normal or even bigger. Let's hope it goes the way you are saying even before I announced that we are inviting questions from audiences I've already got five questions we are live on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube please keep sending your questions so that I can put them to these panelists and get you your answers. I want to now move to Jayesh and I want to understand from you considering that the market has started to open and we'll have people going brands advertise again which are the categories you think are going to be the first ones to go back to outdoor? Well first of all thank you so much Nazia for having me here extremely delighted to share virtual space with all these dignitaries here guys thank you so much. Before I could start on the questions about the categories which we'll start seeing back on this let me you know just give you a simple example we all are using devices we all are using different kind of devices you know we use laptop, we use tablets, we use smartphones and so on and so forth there are a number of devices these days and after being at home maybe we are finding it even more we all have some point of the other encountered some kind of a problem with this device sometimes it gets slow sometimes it gets stuck sometimes it starts behaving extremely weird without any reason and all that and you know the best thing any IT person would give you advice is to restart or reboot the device and once you do that you know it definitely definitely starts working much much better in terms of their performance and you know we get a better result as far as that is concerned so I really love the topic what you have put that rebooting of outdoor and once the rebooting mode is done it's going to be better it's going to definitely bounce back we're going to see the spring movement out here and coming on to the question Nazia as far as the categories are concerned what I personally feel is FMCG essential which is one category which obviously has been doing quite well in terms of their sales also in past couple of months and they are doing it and they will keep doing it there is another category within FMCG which is a personal hygiene or a hygiene if you want to talk about which is slowly and steadily growing quite well so this has hand sanitizers this has liquid soaps this has disinfecting surface sprays and things like that so this is one category which I feel and I'm personally working on two of the briefs on such categories so I know it you know people are planning to launch it in a big way and I'm talking about big corporate houses so this is one new thing where people are looking we are seeing the opportunities and they would definitely try and explore that so that is as far as the FMCG is concerned second thing personally what I think is automobile and when I say automobile especially two-wheelers and a entry segment small cars would see traction in their sales and hence they would need the need of advertising mainly because of again the hygiene reason at least for some time now people will try and avoid public transport as far as possible people who is having I mean someone who is having a cycle will try and graduate himself to a gearless motorcycle or a motorcycle or a bike or and so and so forth people who are with bike will try and graduate themselves to a hatchback sit on an entry level car so I'm not saying about luxury and all but at least the entry level car and two-wheeler in automobile is something which I feel should do well post this and we have started seeing traction in this and how about OTT which was traditionally used to advertise a lot on OTT and then it is it's doing pretty well it has done amazingly well in last three months it's doing pretty well and to keep the momentum it might I'm not sure about the OTT how they are pursuing themselves but since the new content on television is right down right now news is the only fresh content which is going on and hence even the people who are habitual to television consumption are shifted to OTT so we need to see once the lockdown is lifted and the shootings have already been started both in comes a fiction non-fiction once all that gets into the picture how the graph of OTT consumption beast okay despite of doing well they have to compete amongst each other right so they have to advertise exactly and few of the categories like building repair waterproofing cements and all that which is there which is which have a season right now which which should do well and as I think atul was mentioning BFSI and when I say BFSI I predominantly say banking because of the new RBI thing where in banks wants to give more and more loan to the consumer and insurance we all have seen how on other media also the advertising of insurance have gone quite high so because of the kind of fear which is you know everyone is right now into so these are the two more category or BFSI is the one category but there's a banking and insurance are the players which should go high according to me Anjali and Anisha and I would want you to be bring you into the debate you are brands Anjali you think you you would want to advertise on OTT on outdoor right now and you usually do it I mean during Raksha Bandhan and the entire festive season you're very visible on outdoor so what is what is the stand that you've taken right now on outdoor so first of all thank you for having me on the panel I think in context of what categories that I see you know will get first to outdoor I think is more from the emerging trends that you're seeing currently in the market right so there's a lot of you know chatter about self-care and you know health and wellness I'm saying some of those categories are definitely going to go on to outdoor first and then anything to do around immunity building you know security for yourself financial all of that is going to see a resurgence and of course like us lots of other advertisers come on to out of home when there is the festive season starting off with Raki and then subsequently moving on to Diwali and into into the next year into Valentine's Day which are big opportunities of growth especially for the gifting category which is where we operate so definitely looking forward to that I think it would probably not be quite the same that it used to be in the past because there are still areas which are you know experiencing maybe constrained environments in which they're operating so there isn't a complete lift you know in all your essential services malls are not operating you know people are still not going out that much but slowly yes I think that should start picking up and festive season is an opportunity especially for brands like us because we are actually as categories we are the makers and markers of happiness so there's a lot of positivity around our brands and it's an excellent opportunity when people are sort of coming out of a constrained environment to be there in out of home because it's an opportunity to re celebrate life in that sense you know and feel a little less depressed about the ones that have gone by in the past so yes I do see you know the festive season see a resurgence in out of home for sure but maybe not like you know in the same way it was before it might go first to the green zones and the amber zones and you know the red containment areas would continue to still be restricted so maybe not there but eventually that will also ease up if you if you were to give a percentage of how much drop you may see this year in your advertising on outdoor I think the festive season if things go back to normalcy I don't see any drop happening the drop would be completely dependent on how the environment starts to evolve going forward right so I don't think any advertiser today has a complete fix on how the environment is going to shape up in the future no one can say whether there'll be another lockdown at some point in time or things are going to open up and it is going to be fine but if everything is fine and everything starts reaching a stage of completely normal living then I don't see any drop happening in advertising sense Anisha what's your view on this hey thank you all for having me so you know I kind of echo what Anjali also says but looking at the brand that we are we're not inessential but surprisingly the way we are seeing response especially on our own platforms we are very proud to own the space of home we can proudly say that we can talk about home all the time and say that we can develop solutions and options for you when you're home when it comes to out of home it has been our best friend pre-covid and we've seen it all of Hyderabad we've seen it how we launched and we are a small brand right now in the in the country as fast as this but out of home has held our hand to drive visitation and we can attribute a lot of visitation percentage to this media as such so there is a pre-covid and a post-covid scenario and for me it's not rebooting for me it's out of home 2.0 for me it's reinventing and that's what will be an expectation as a brand because I don't see this channel dissolving or having less equity in the market because it will revive back it will it will bounce as Jayesh also rightly pointed it will bounce but how we bounce when do we talk to people how do we talk to people what are our new touch points is out of home really out of home for me or is it out of my balcony what do I see outside my balcony is out of home for me what do I sit see when I sit in my car is out of home for me so my touch points are going to change my entire influence of brands has to be as close as my doorstep delivery so then that definition you know it's it's it's going to have to be involved and I see that this channel plays a very big role now in fact larger than before we have a bigger bigger responsibility on our shoulders to evolve this channel and to not have innovation as something which is an add-on always this is what I'm going to do and then we have one innovation we've got to move away from that innovation has to be part of the bucket only then can brands will start considering the out of home as a part and parcel the way it has always been because none of us stopped advertising we were on all possible medias we participated like we could even when we were non-essentials we spoke about inspiration we spoke about values we spoke about living together at home we got home at the center of everything but not throughout the form so how do I and you know how do I still have the same message and bring back out of home as a channel if the expectation and the yes agents partners and everybody is partnering us to build that together but yes to in the long run in the short run my simple answer would be yes we go on bv and digital but in medium to long term I see that out of home will be the channel which will be the emerging star because people will move out yeah we all eventually would want to I mean we all already want to move out of the home so I would like to add to both Anjali and so you know one of the things as a as an agency I feel or maybe a flag bearer for the trade I feel you know people have been locked down for so long I mean 60 70 days people are so eager to go out I mean if you do some kind of a social listening or if you look at we've done some kind of research and all people are egging out to go so what is out of home is going to be the best place to be and I I feel for both the brands one is being a very mass national brand and Ikea being a very local Hyderabad based currently brand both need that kind of a support because there is going to be a dent in the brand recall and I think if they start early it will be the best place to be to take that mileage because ultimately consumers have lost touch with the brand and I feel as an opportunist lot of brands will try to also use this space immediately after the lockdown to build you know the top of mind recall as soon as possible and you know I've seen so many people talking about I'm missing my restaurant or I want to go to a mall and shop and things like that and hence I feel taking the this kind of initiative where you are taking a front foot advantage and advertising in the out of home space wherever possible will definitely give both the brands a lot of mileage if I can I mean I will want to have your view also on this so is it when we talk about reboot it is also the time for outdoor out of home to consider changing its placement as in like now all most of the so should out of home now mean out of my balcony like somebody just mentioned this is what Rishabh was talking right in the beginning that this is the time for Mr. Srivastav and other media people to also consider that we need to shift out of door from highways and from airports from bus stands to locate to the local areas because even if I would have the urge to go out I may just go to two kilometers and just come back because I want to be safe also so Mr. Srivastav if you want to start with this that are you already considering that that you know we need to have new place I mean a new kind of plan for outdoor no Nazia I think this is too early to plan something like that because there are two situations one is we are all anticipating there could be a vaccine for the covid in the future if not today maybe after two months so we are assuming they definitely sooner or later maybe after two months three months there will be a vaccine to this problem once vaccine is there life will be more or less normal secondly typically in India we have 735 districts out of which 135 are in red zone almost 600 districts are 50 to 95 in green zone and 305 in orange zone so very large part of India is still not under so much of threat from covid but when you talk of economics the red zone is the I will come to that point because the situation is so horrible because Mumbai and Delhi which are the driver of the economy in the country these two places are suffering from covid so that is where the problem is happening and to a great extent even Chennai is suffering very badly except Bangalore and Bangalore is one place which is comparative not so much under threat from covid but because of Mumbai and Delhi the popular impression going to most of the clients or to the people or the masses is that oh my god everything is coming to a land but actually it is not so I mean we have seen lot of movement the moment government decided to allow the traffic movement they decided to unlock so much of movement of people was there I mean see the restaurants I mean my Bangalore office was telling me once the malls are open there even restaurants you can see lot of people were eating out and sitting inside restaurants and they are roaming around in the malls also so people are desperate to come back out of their home in Delhi the decision has bounced back no to an extent but now covid is spreading in certain pockets only it's not a spread across wherever you see the containment zones are restricted to some pockets it's not even in Mumbai even in Delhi there are pockets where so many cases are being reported it is not set across and gradually things are coming to see the when the air traffic was started all people were hesitant when I started my office one month back so we were so hesitant to come to the office but in one month's time I can see almost more than 50 percent people are comfortably coming though we have allowed don't come to the office work from home but then they are comfortable I mean people have accepted that covid is going to be the part of life they are more comfortable in office than home Mr Mehta would you want to add your mic is off sorry yes so covid is definitely here for some time so we'll just have to live with the new norms and live with the fact that it's going to be there because we really don't know whether the vaccine will come out in two months or not and if it all it comes out whether all of us will get it how effective that's going to be so I think with all those factors in mind it's important that we we have a change in mindset and we go with the fact that it's here now and this is the new normal and this is how we are going to moving forward what are the solutions that we can look at no I think as Amisha rightly said we definitely have to look at a much more integrated format and not just out of form per se the traditional out of form billboards but looking at various touch points where we can get the consumer and engage the consumer whether it's the consumer stepping out of the house and interacting with the interactive kiosk there or going to say a retail store to buy their vegetables etc at that point or if they're going to their office then maybe they did the covid digital kiosk that have just come up now in the market those so all those points are now I think very relevant it's very important to keep engaging in an integrated way and focus more on using technology and content I think now is the time to really engage a lot of the smaller brands who've not had the budgets to really play out on out of form I think this is the ideal time for any of the brands to come up and get a larger voice of share in the overall marketing mix and use this opportunity to do outdoor integrated campaigns where they'll get a lot of value moving forward and there are a couple of brands we are working with right now and they've really picked up on this and we see the big difference in terms of their approach in terms of looking at out of form now not only purely from the billboard perspective but as a integrated various touch point perspective and it's I think that's here to stay that will really change the way moving forward for all brands Mr. Naik you would want to add to it do you agree that we need to reboot in the sense that we need to change the locations we need to approach it differently I think as you know sometime back Anisha said you know it's it's very very important to reinvent and you know as the two custodian of the industry I think we should and I think sometime back Vishab also mentioned about you know the society digital screens and all so people have really in this situation also a lot of lot of them have reinvented I I also know a couple of agencies who have tied up with you know this shopping malls where grocery stores and all and data combined branding so where they have they have done some some kind of activation so I truly believe that see COVID I think is going to be there for two three months and if you have to survive you will have to reinvent and there are so many other opportunities where you know we as brand custodians between Anjali and Anisha also can you define reinvent like what exactly can brands do with the outdoor space so obviously traditional out of home is there there is a lot of corporate branding which is available because you will see as a tool set people are coming to office our office is also open obviously with a lot of restriction and safety and all so corporate areas are there there are you know grocery stores which are available for branding there are you know societies which are available so a lot of so going beyond billboard is one of the media options but also we need to keep in mind that you know everyone has hit financially brands or beat agencies or beat our media partners everyone is going to reach the red line or cross the red line and to avoid that I think brands would be looking at reinventing and looking at optimized solution whether you know you can get you know data in and around optimizing the planning capabilities or buying capabilities there are going to be negotiation so I think reinventing both sides both in terms of media but also in terms of our planning capabilities how do we plan how do we optimize our spends because optimization is going to be the new normal for all of us and which is where you know fusion of so many new industry standards have come into play you know Europe is changing in terms of its media currency or media measurements US is changing you know we've been doing it for last couple of days where last couple of years where we've integrated mobile data in our out-of-home planning so a lot of new initiatives are available for agencies media partners as well as brands to you know reinvent holistically not in terms of only whether to take billboard or not to take billboard but I think holistically everyone will have to reinvent their own self looking at the out-of-home domain jayesh if you can quickly answer this because I already have 20 questions and we are already midway I'll quickly touch upon this thing the changes kind of changes what it is required what I would feel that I would divide it into three things or a three major things which is like first would be the client first kind of approach where the new thing would be the the emphasis would be on a more of a solution provider rather than a service provider you have to go to the client with the solution on the objective or the problem what they are facing rather than going along with your services what you have to offer if you have something which is a solution driven solution provider wherein you can help the brand in terms of their sales it can you can help the brand in terms of their branding or in whichever way whatever the weak point brand has if you can help them with the solution that will be the new thing while brand will immediately able to buy outdoor in second would be adaptability when when I talk about the adaptability it's like you know we have to adopt ourselves to the new normal what we are talking about so the consumer is going to behave in a very very different way and the new touch points the new time span how where what is going to be the crucial thing so adaptability has to be very very fast and effective way solution provider is one of the thing which will be required in this and third would be empathy when I say about empathy empathy is like empathize with you know your own people being together in this difficult time and assuring of the best always if you if you inbuilt this kind of a thing in them they will come out with a solution which will be able to help you increase your business so basically unlock you know 2.0 what we are talking about I would say solution adaptability and empathy I have I've got two more questions in the meantime that you were giving me the answer so I'll quickly take questions I'll try to address it to one panelist at a time so that we can take as many questions as possible if I can start with Mr. Shivastav because I think you can answer this the best is it the right time to invest in outdoor properties as all corporations are ready to offer sites at negotiable rates no it is not true they are not offering at any negotiable rate definitely the subject of today's discussion they reboot and my opinion this reboot is going to happen mainly in terms of the rates of the media in terms of the expenses which organizations had already over committed so that kind of rebooting is going to happen but definitely this is a good time to acquire media because people will be very very cautious while voting for any new tenure so definitely a very reasonable in the sometime back we could see one could go to any extent much like we are tender lineup at whatever price and in something they are x person is quoting say rupees 100 somebody else can quote 200 rupees also so there was no sanctity of the rates whatsoever wanted to take a particular tender then irrespective of the rate or the cost they were going super aggressive and it would be the industry was suffering for that and people media owners were also suffering for that now that sense is there everybody has realized boss there is a limit to money which we have let's spend it very carefully so I'm very sure whatever tenders whatever new positions happen will be at a very very reasonable next question the person has addressed to Anjali what are your expectations from your agency which will convince you to invest again in out of home data and strategy is by default apart from that what are other factors that will influence your decision return investment for sure we look at all our investments from the perspective of what it is going to do for business on our brands and all our advertising is of course targeted towards making sure that we are reaching the consumer and connecting with the consumer so whenever we have an appropriate occasion or an appropriate campaign and if the agency can think of you know a great media plan then definitely we would look at considering next question also you can answer will you continue to work with your agency or will you be open I don't know who has sent this or will you be open to the idea of working with another agency if the other agency has a better idea for your for us the agency is actually our extended I would say team we don't consider them as agency at all there are partners on I think you can conveniently skip that question we can move to the next question so this question Harish maybe you can start with what needs to be rebooted in outdoor the offerings kind of media price points innovations locations type of media I think you know you have to look at what are the things you can immediately change and what are the things will take time to change so obviously you know changing the entire media dynamics is going to be very very difficult you know soon but obviously things you know where we can look at strategizing it better bringing it bringing in a lot of data points into the business because we need to help our clients take right decisions and as Anjali said as a media partner to my client am I able to bring that ROI and am I able to answer that question and help my client reconnect its brand and its consumer then I am answering the question so I think a lot of focus has to be there obviously initiatives which we've been talking for a very long time in terms of if you look at for me out of home has always been a medium which defines the city I mean why do you go to a Times Square or a Piccadilly Circus or Osaka circle is basically you go there to see large format billboards a city looks beautiful if you have good properties and I think government should in this reboot mode look at you know taking the initiative and supporting the industry by relooking at the touch points and also the quality of the medium if the quality of mediums improve I think it will be beneficial to everyone both who are clients and their brands because they will have a good exposure for the brand the hygiene levels across will be better so I think overall we need to look at various points but obviously the focus has to be how much we can change as soon as possible things which we can change very fast we should definitely look at changing and reinventing so I'm trying to club the questions a lot of people are repeatedly asking what something that Anisha also mentioned is it time for outdoor to go hyper local Rishabh would you want to take that question yes for sure we've already seen that has started playing out over the last just before the COVID as well brands are already looking at hyper local solutions and looking at getting greater ROI with that because it makes more sense to do it at places which where you have your maximum audience profile rather than just painting the town red with all the possible builds that you could get or touch points that you could get so definitely is hyper local is the way forward and I think we'll see more and more integrated solutions where you see a combination of a billboard and a digital and mobile all going together at hyper local level Jess you want to add to it do you also agree I would say outdoor is all about hyper local from beginning I don't know why it is say that it's time for outdoor now we are even more localized you know so that it is it has become subjective now I mean see outdoor it's we have been always using it I mean all over or even if it is a bigger brand I'll give you just an example like say a bank a bank is a large-scale national bank when they they will never campaign regarding the brand or something they would do a national campaign but whenever they are keep opening a branch it's a hyper local thing which which runs around for for years I have been dealing with three of the banks everywhere so in a in a in a small district of West Bengal you open a branch you would do campaign in the two or three periphery you know that kind of a radius wherein you want people to walk into the branch from that area only when you do for QSR like say McDonald's you know wherever the shop is opening you are doing that so hyper local is the best example outdoor could work and you know no media can take alternate on this you cannot go to press you cannot go to television you cannot even go to radio as far as the the kind of minute level hyper local outdoor can go so outdoor has always been hyper local it has been using in a great manner there is no alternate to outdoor as far as hyper local but is this all the more time to go hyper local I mean it's it's it's it's icing on the cake I would say you know it's already we are doing it and time is more you know one could even go it's it's it's good for the even tier two tier three kind of cities as well where most of the corporate brand and all are you know restricting themselves to top 10 12 14 kind of cities with going hyper local I think those cities will see kind of attractions as well Anisha you want to add anything to that because you used that a lot in Hadrabaz right your mic is off Anisha yes absolutely and as jesh he's already spoken the point that I was going to say that it is out of him has always been about being hyper local geo targeting segmentation gets us the right kind of people the relevant people who we want to talk to with us it's a very simple example when we when we launched e-commerce in Mumbai we didn't launch to all these all the pin codes and at that point of time the activity that we did was we picked up railway stations which is which is the mode of transport and across the city and we actually clustered them in a way that wherever the service was launched so indirectly directly it is doing segmenting basis areas now in digital terms we do a lot of profiling psychographics demographics you take all of those terms in there in terms of out of form the parameters are slightly different but at every level we do hyper local at the same time it also depends on what stage your brand is at and what is it at that point of time that your brand wants to do so for when ikea launched in hadrabad our aim was to spread out the word those are very different times exactly I couldn't be talking about those times right now yes I can't have thousand people thousands of people coming to my store every day we did have it at some point of time but I want people to buy online but I want to do that I will obviously reach out to those areas where they've been doing maximum shopping and I will do a hyper local targeting for that so the times are changing the modes are just being used absolutely why not yeah I just want to add to reinventing caveat yeah just to add to Anisha I think I only have a deviation to what you said is just the way you do hyper local targeting in digital even in out of form you can use shape files at pin code level you can integrate data and you can also integrate your sales data to a pin code and do the planning so that kind of hyper local targeting is also possible in the out of form space absolutely Harish you know it's just that measure the real measurability has always been a debate when it comes to something that we spend one of the on and you know there are tools and equipments and then lot of tools which have now been devised to do that but how many brands are really using it how equipped are we to really you know live by those numbers that how many eyeballs am I gaging at every every signal that we have so it's a debatable thing we need to just bring it up as strongly as performance marketing in e-commerce just for example but performance marketing in the out of form space is there is there to play today I mean you can create your own channels where your sites are there you can put your polygons and you can measure the audiences which are passing your billboard so that is really possible today and a lot of brands today fortunately are using and integrating a lot of data points right from the store location to even getting into sales data and various other data which can be integrated and optimized plan can be worked out so I think the only thing is I mean both the digital as well as the out of form space benefit of technology both the spaces are becoming very very close so I think those benefits are available in in in the out of form space also today. Jess I saw a very big smile on your face when the topic of measurability came in so would you want to say something on that? The very big. The measurability has been a problem without. Yeah I mean that's the reason very big smile was there and it's been years we have been talking about everyone has measurability all the time. Everyone on the group is smiling here on this topic because it's been it's been quite some time people have been talking about it's not now it's been for me at least it's been 20 years in this industry and I am seeing from day one people have been talking about this. I don't know unfortunately we have not been able to come together and come up with a syndicated data or the numbers as far as measurability is concerned but having said that there are people who are having this on an individual level like Harish was mentioning some time back that there are possibilities there there are possibilities of marrying digital with outdoor like earlier radio with outdoor how it used to happen now it's happening with digital there is a possibility of retargeting there is a possibility of hyperlocal there is a possibility of somebody has seen the billboard and you know you could check whether that guy has actually the walk-in happened to your store or not polygon mapping data-centric there are a number of things which are happening the and it and all the top agencies have this data it's not that I have and somebody doesn't have it all top agencies have their data in their own limitation or in their own this thing the only thing which is lacking is a syndicated number unless and until we have a syndicated number or a currency it will be very difficult for you know Anjali and Anisha to believe whom to believe rather you know because everyone comes up with the thing and everyone demonstrate the thing so it is a need of an art no doubt about it it is definitely a need of an art and sooner or the better I want to take at least three more questions from the audiences one if I can start with Mr. Shivastar outdoor is considered an expensive medium to advertise as compared to digital do you think the reinvention will also look at cost control even post-economic drop how are we approaching the ROI metric to compete with digital oh no outdoor is not that expensive definitely when you talk about outdoor and its cost outdoor media is costly in metro maybe in Mumbai Delhi Bando but typically in all three or two either three cities outdoor is very very reasonably priced definitely after this kind of rebooting and this cost cutting and all these things will happen after this reboot and call it cost is going to come down it has already started coming down we are already getting discounts from media owners we are also media owner we are also offering discounts on the media because the need of the hour is to ensure occupancy so definitely cost is going to come down next two to three months time but I don't actually subscribe to the fact the outdoor is an expensive medium it is expensive compared to what when you are comparing it about digital they're comparing it he's comparing it he's specifically asked when you compare it digital and outdoor out of home media have two different functions and digital has emerged as you know as a hero in this these last few months so and most of your inventory has I think gone into digital digital definitely is growing because there is a shorty whenever the number of clicks are there you know how many people have actually visited but typically you should try and recall how many times you have to escape ads I mean ad will display whether you are watching youtube or something how frequently you press that button of escape ads and digital has never built any brand although laksha has a digital marketing vertical also which is doing pretty well so I'm not opposing to that but how do you apply your typical function it is the brand based the impact it is not only just the impact which outdoor create it also ensures the reach like typically when a political campaign is happening you will see the ideal combination of both you will find a very stunning reward of maybe the prime minister and it can be taken to maybe a sector 21 of hardware also so that outdoor can deliver you impact as well as the penetration and in the reach so that is a typical function of outdoor and there is a limit to the size of outdoor suppose Mumbai has 1000 billboards it cannot be increased overnight when the season time comes I cannot make it 1200 I cannot make it 1500 whereas that can happen in digital medium whatever number of bookings Google receives or other players they receive they can activate all those advertisements but outdoor has got its own size space is not a constant Rishabh you want to add to it your mic is off sorry I think he's very right in saying outdoor has his own space so obviously the impact that outdoor create creates the other mediums don't so it's not a question of one is better than the other but it's about having an integrated approach digital will definitely play a larger role moving forward because it just gives advertisers the additional freedom of engaging with the consumers in a more interactive manner and that which is not the case in the traditional reports but each medium has its own merits and demerits I think moving together is the only way forward and digital definitely will increase because as he likely said it's easier to increase the digital footprints than to overnight increase the number of billboards in a particular city so that will definitely happen we have six minutes left and I want to take up this question which is one of the most difficult questions of this year how much top line depletion do you see in a financial year 2021 as compared to last year Harish if you want to start with it what our estimates are anywhere between you know roughly around about 20 percent 15 to 20 percent because we are also aligning monsoon to it and if you look at all the agencies and the entire market festive season contributes to around about 50 60 percent of our you know billing so we estimate around about 15 20 percent of you know loss of business Jayash you want to add I would say that quarter one is virtually wiped off April May and June it's kind of June some traction is happening April May has been kind of wiped off so quarter one is gone quarter two the things are improving we are debating and discussing the same and I'm quite happy that you know there are a lot of things which are happening around which I was not aware of so overall the traction is there in the industry and and Q2 we should definitely see if not more than at least to the 50 percent of what Q2 was last year I'm being very very conservative when I'm throwing this number but I recollect what Atul started with saying Diwali season where the Q3 comes into the picture and Q4 with JFM where BFSI gets quite active I would see we are going to see more than 100 percent of what we did last year so overall I think if you sum this up it it more or less come to the figure what Harish said so yes you know Q1 and Q2 is a lot but the large part of business in Outer Form is always lies in Q3 and Q4 and hence we are seeing better Q3 and Q4 and hence overall losses whatever you want to put it is or a less profit rather I'll put it as is that much Mr. Shivastav yeah typically it will be around 20 percent could be 20 to 24 percent or could be 15 to 17 percent but around 20 percent of the top nine losses we can clearly see and let's wait and watch how the forthcoming months go but as of now yes like Jayesh mentioned the Q1 is completely washed out and typically we are we normally generate 20 to 25 percent of billing top line billing in this quarter which we have lost so I'm assuming the 20 percent top line losses will be there in this financial year. Anjali would you want to make any closing comments? I definitely think we will bounce back in terms of business I think the bigger challenge for the Outer Form industry is how do you create consumer experiences now that you know you're in in this new environment and I'm saying this more from the perspective of brands like ours where we don't just do Outer Form is just not a billboard for us but it's also about you know installations and kiosks and things like that where we have the opportunity for our consumers to interact with our brands and that I think is something that they will have to think through otherwise I think business as normal will come back surely by the time festive season is around the corner. Anisha? Well I think yes I don't see depletion really but all I see is there's a change in human behaviour and every consumer who's here is a human first and you know how do we look at the human aspect and then look at building the channel will be the most important thing then come whether it's the August sale or whether it's Diwali or it's New Year everything will work out if we are talking to people in the language that they want to hear if we are not to pushy if you're not becoming the opportunist that we all may tend to become as business people we all have running businesses but what will be most impactful and will keep us in the race will be to bring that human factor because this is really this can't get this can't get more real so and trust is something that can that will be built only over a period of time so let's be less pushy let's be human first and let's talk what people really want to hear from us then everything will work out the moment we'll become pushy will be the opportunist and we'll be sidelined I'll just take one example there Parleji I just read about it four days back and last I think 85 years they've got the highest revenue ever not just because they're an FMCG brand and then they were distributed in every railway station and every SKU possible but because they kept up with what they say and what they do it's just a small example modulus for example is another great example on how they've been surviving so FMCG brands have really been doing well but you see any of these brands whatever channels they've chosen in the last few months they're talking absolutely purpose-led communication they're absolutely talking what is the need of the hour what we are talking on our website on art platforms is home is the place with possibilities we're talking home we do want people to buy but we can't say that right and we would never do that because that's where people are showing the interest in so let's figure out and do a little more maybe research in terms of where are people mobilizing what are they choosing what do they want to read about what do they want to see outside and then the channel mix will automatically develop and that's when we'll make the package and our agencies will obviously give us the right media plan there. Rishabh sum it up in a minute we are already out of time whatever your closing remarks. So I think for us as a technology media solution provider to be honest this has been a positive happening that's because it just moved everybody at a faster space in terms of adoption of technology and going digital we of course we face issues with the immediate burning issues with our partners here with the kind of business that has gone out but I think moving forward this year we hope to in fact end the year with a way higher top like than what we did last year as well because purely everybody is moving towards adopting technology so we're really going at a much more faster space and we're also going in other markets where things are really looking very bright so for us thankfully it's been it's been a silver lining so far and we hope with all the other we wanted to talk about digital outdoor program problematic outdoor but you know we're completely out of time and I I've already got like 46 questions I think I've barely I could take up four or five questions maybe we should have another webinar with all of you guys whenever you're available allow me can I I have I am coming to each one of you I can have your closing remarks before I mean sure sure what I wanted to say it's you know for any kind of a market year it's very easy to say that you know to cut the marketing spend and we'll come back when the things bounces back or that when the things gets back to normal however I would like to say that brand building is not done with a switch off of button it is not an on or off kind of a thing where in use you know switch it on or a switch it off all leading brands have 360 degree communication going at any point of given time yes there will be a skew towards a particular media which which changes with the time right now the skew towards outdoor was zero now the skew towards outdoor is increasing but you know when I would like to say that outdoor is something you know the one major media because one cannot go away with it because of its ability to make a statement which is larger than life which you cannot do this is one of the only media which you cannot avoid or ignore you can change your channel you can decide to switch off your mobile you can do anything but if you are on road and driving and billboard is right in front of you you can change your route you cannot there will be billboards on those routes as well because once you cannot ignore it its ability to make a statement which is larger than life being hyper local in nature which is again uncomparable which we have seen reach to the last mile you know when the customer is actually walking into a store or a dealership or anything else the last point of communication just because just before the point of sale is going to be outdoor it's high penetration these are just to name a few you know advantages which is there so it is definitely going to be in congestion with the large high reach media like television to an extent print digital of course we have discussed quite a bit so it is definitely going to bet but outdoor will be one of the you know one of the major communication channel for the large brands going forward one cannot just ignore it just because of the covid thing is what I wanted to say it Harish yeah so my closing remarks I mean it's an honor and thank you for having me on the webinar and it was great interacting with all of them and sharing the platform and there was a great learning I feel if I if I want to close it I think the positivity is very very important for all of us and you know when we talk about positivity it is important that we look at what are our controllable factors and non controllable factors covid is a situation which is uncontrollable so we should look at what is controllable and we should work on our strengths and I think it is very very important that we should have the self-belief and it is very important right now going forward is to reinvent overall our consumer connection as well as our service offering to our clients and you know come back to them with a solution which is right to the audience and I feel you know we work with Anjali on the Tang activity sometime back and it got a lot of appreciation and you know we are very proud that in such a moment we were able to pull it off just that if we had thought that it was not possible we could have not pulled it off so I think belief is very very important and I think out of form definitely as Jayesh said it does not have a ad skip or add a block and it's a medium where everyone we go for so I think let's stay positive and let's work towards getting it back to normal so those are my closing comments thank you thank you Mr. Shrivastav thanks Nadia for this beautiful session and thanks to Exchange for Media Group also in my closing remark all I would like to say is I have a great faith in the market of this country I mean irrespective of whether COVID continues for next six months also I still feel people will have their needs and their marketing requirements they are going to go to the market as it is they have started accepting he was whether COVID or not no COVID we are going to fulfill our needs whether it is related to travel or to some extent even related to their tourism which is very very challenging thing at this point of time so when it comes to their buying habits their shopping thing definitely they are going to all out and the potential of this country the population of this country has tremendous potential and marketers will have to sell their brand and to sell they will need to advertise and if they have to advertise then outdoor is going to be one very good and viable option so I'm very very confident about out of home and its future country is going to have its market back very soon whether COVID is there or it has not there after two three months market will be bang will be back with full bang and outdoor will have its rosy days again thank you very much we sincerely wish everything that you say comes true we are I had requested you all for max 10 minutes more so we are in time it's 508 I wanted I have no closing remarks because somebody has already some one of the viewers has already sent a message Bhumi Lakhani has said this is one of the most positive and optimistic webinar in last few months that I have seen who goes to all the panelists so thank you all for joining us I think you should also thank Priyanka for putting up this interesting panel and having all of you us all of you here and Bhumi has also said that we should have this more so you know we may come back to you again for another webinar and we there's so many points that we wanted to cover but we couldn't cover because and we're already out of time so thank you each one of you for joining us we sincerely wish that the market bounces back and we're all back on track and we're all back on road and all the outdoor billboards are full of ads again thank you so much for joining thank you thank you thank you and thank you stay safe no go safe take care yeah all the best thank you bye bye