 Thomas Jefferson said, a well-informed electorate is a prerequisite for democracy. The following program is part of the series, Influencers and Media Makers. A number of years ago, CCTV sat down with some of Vermont's most influential voices in media, news, and information access to understand their perspectives about the role of media in democracy and how their decisions shape the way we as Vermonters receive information. Much has changed since our first interviews. The people, the technology and social media, the political landscape, and so much more. Fast forward 20 or so years, and in collaboration with Leadership Champlain, we are revisiting the topic with a focus on what has changed, gaps and challenges across geographic, language, and socioeconomic boundaries. The conversations you will hear with today's gatekeepers provide important, varied, and insightful context to the media in Vermont today. Enjoy. We're exploring the evolving role of media and the necessity of an unfettered press for a healthy democracy. In general, how do you respond to that? Oh, in general, how do I respond to such a complex question? Well, I think one of the most important aspects of democracy is keeping everyone informed, whether it's informed as to their rights, as they're ever changing as we're working on laws and policies in the State House, or whether it's just knowing about the candidates that they're electing. It's an important process to know the issues that are affecting our communities, and I think media is both a really powerful tool in both ways. One is really focusing on how we can empower folks to give them that information so that they are able to act more effectively with democracy. And the other end is the misinformation that we see so often. The cornerstone of protecting our freedom of speech is allowing all speech, but how do we find this balance of empowering folks while also being able to provide those critical thinking or critical examination skills when it comes to the media that we take in? Excellent. So how do you balance partisanship, bias, ideology, and propaganda in the media while maintaining integrity to your political platform? You kind of touched on that with the misinformation, but... I see we ask really little questions here. A nice Barbara Walters 2020 interview. No pressure. No, these are really great questions. And I think there's a lot of difficulties when it comes to partisanship because we see so many issues as partisan when in actuality I think there's such a gift being here in Vermont, because a lot of our approaches on issues are not from a partisan lens, but are really from a place of understanding, in my opinion, and what I've seen in the work, is that everyone is truly working in the best interest of Vermonters and that our view on the issues are different. We're looking at it from different angles, but we are all kind of coming to the same place of how are we uplifting, how are we supporting everyone in the state? And so when it comes to media sources, I think that's the crux of the issue, is making sure that we're not going to either end of the spectrum, but finding that happy medium where it might lean a little left or it might lean a little right because there's no such thing as unbiased media. We all bring biases, and I think an important aspect in media is being able to name those biases up front so that we better understand that writer's point of view or that anchor or that journalist. So we get more of a well-rounded picture of the issues instead of just saying, oh, this is one take on the issue and therefore that is the way that we're going to go forward. Almost makes me think of the scientific process. So fun fact, when I went to UVM, I actually came in with a biochemistry major, really wanted to go into the medical fields, took organic chemistry as they say, weeded me out, went a whole different path. But what I learned in my time in biochemistry is that when you're creating a hypothesis, you're creating it to invalidate that hypothesis. You're doing everything you can to disprove what you are trying to actually prove so that you have the best results. I think that's a great approach as we look at media is saying, what is my point of view and how do I understand the other point of view or others because of course there's not just two stories in the mix. For sure, awesome. So kind of tying into taking away from how an anchor or a news outlet might have their biases projected and kind of personalizing it for you. So do you feel that you're accurately portrayed in the media like do they amplify your story genuinely or do you feel like they editorialize? Oh, that's a great question. I think so often in media we go to this place of simplification and so I loved when I was first entering the race and running, everyone would start, any journalist I worked with, any anchor would start with saying, we understand that you are way more complex than just a trans person, like we really want to dig in deeper and not just focus on that and yet every time we would come into the questions it would always come to, well, what's your coming out story? How does your transness impact the work that you're doing? And the headlines would always be about trans lawmaker or trans candidate and so I think that simplification and narrowing is a hindrance to folks accessing the information and it's interesting the conversations that have come up in the state house when folks are like, I don't want to sound offensive, I don't want to come off the wrong way but I don't care that you're trans. What I care about is your stance on the issues, how you're going to do this work, your leadership qualities as you're coming in here, it's great to see that representation don't get me wrong but it's hard to get past those headlines and dig into the meat or the protein of those articles because it just doesn't see the fullness we're a complex human being so to reduce someone to just one identity that we hold even if it is that attention grabber in the headline it really I think limits the opportunities for folks to learn across difference and recognize that yes that is one identity I hold and there is so much more to make beyond that one piece. So how and when do you choose to engage with the media when highlighting issues that are important to you and your constituency and kind of to add to that since you maybe do you feel like you have to circumnavigate the trans identity to get to the meat do you find yourself pushing that aside so you can focus on issues or how do you navigate that? You know it really depends on what the article or what the focus is. I think there's been a lot of zeroing in on the work that I've done in relation to my identity in the state house and the struggles that I've passed without kind of focusing on the other issues so really the two times that I'm being asked to comment or coming in to the media is around things that are specific to Winooski and then things that are specific to my identity of course one piece of my identity and so it's hard to separate the personal from the political because they are so intertwined but I think I find even when talking about Winooski I think one of the integral pieces of work that we did in the last year was expanding voter access especially for non-citizen voters in the city and that was also personal thinking about my own story with my mother who emigrated here from Canada very different than others experiences in Winooski but still to the core of she's still not able to vote and so how do I remove myself in that personal story from the story of the people of Winooski it feels impossible to me so I think there's an importance of not removing the personal from the political but it is a tough balance at the end of the day to find a way to say here is the important pieces of this and that's not separate from my identity So tying in that access, the voter access and your own personal story with your mother and how she, was she an English speaker? Yes, well she was four when she came to the United States so she had a lot of experience with the English language and actually to a detriment of her French speaking all my other relatives speak fluent French It's funny when you lose that in just a generation really Right So we have been asking people kind of this idea of a news desert and we have a definition of a news desert but we discussed earlier not offering that definition up because everyone we talked to has a different take on it they just have a unique take on it So when you hear that phrase news desert kind of in the light of a diverse community and like you said increasing voter access and things to that end to be able to get the information to the different groups who need it whether there's a language barrier or an access to technology barrier or whatever those barriers might be that you've broken down in Winooski how do you define a news desert, a media desert? No, I haven't thought about this one before but what immediately came to mind is thinking of like a food desert and not being able to access either a grocery store in your neighborhood or city or able to access fresh produce and so when I think of it in that perspective it's really getting the news that is most impactful to that community So I know Winooski's own history we used to have a newspaper that was specific to Winooski and we used to have publications specific to the city and understanding all that's going on since of course government is existing on various levels I think so often we focus on the federal level and we focus on even the statewide level of what's happening in the legislature and missing out on those opportunities of what's happening on select boards and city councils where those decisions actually have a much more tangible effect on the people of the city and so I would say that a news desert is when you're not able to access news that directly relates to your community and the needs of your community And do you think there is a news desert in Winooski or Vermont in general based on your definition? Absolutely I think it absolutely exists in Winooski and I think there are some ways that folks are able to access that information not through typical media sources I think of what a gift it is to have Front Porch Forum though it can be very annoying at times in the various posts that come up but it's also a way of keeping folks informed as to when city council meetings are happening when budget meetings are linking to presentations so folks are able to come back to that information later on but I think beyond Winooski majority of the rural parts of Vermont don't have that same access especially when a lot of our media is online right now particularly in Vermont I think of where I get my media which is through Vermont Digger or Seven Days which all are I'm accessing them online and if we're watching news I don't really have cable in the modern day and so it's all through the internet is where I'm able to get my best info and if we don't have broadband access statewide how are other folks getting that information are there still print newspapers in their community and the answer is likely not This kind of leads into the social media question so in addition to your public servant role we know that you've got a strong social media following and so how do you leverage that or use that to reach your constituents and kind of as a two-way form of communication if that's something you use the platforms for Yeah, I think social media is again such a blessing and a curse all in one it's a great way to be getting the issues out it's also a very easy and informal way of being able to communicate with constituents it feels so much easier to send a quick message via a DM on Instagram or sending a Facebook message to your representative to get a quick response rather than what do I have to write in an email what is going to grab their attention what do I really want to know and I found so many folks participate more through social media especially younger folks and being able to ask questions and to get more information on the bills that we're working on compared to if I was just putting out a newsletter which every time I do I get very few email responses so I ask myself are people truly reading this is this impactful and yet on social media there is that kind of direct feedback that you're getting which also comes in the sense of negative feedback if folks don't like what I'm doing or recognizing that you can't just limit social media to your constituency or to the state of Vermont but that there are national reactions to what is happening and do you tailor your like do you use social media as a gauge for I mean obviously I'm sure for the topics that are important to your constituents and do you kind of tailor your output for lack of a better word based on their feedback and their questions and do you try to kind of direct your content to serve those needs based on feedback or do you kind of have an agenda of what you plan out oh I wish I could plan it out much farther than I do I would say there's a mix there especially if there's significant interest in bills that we're working on I'll make sure to post more about those but in general just trying to get information out specifically as to what's happening in Winooski I think that's a piece where it's not necessarily legislative action that is always my focus but even community events ways that people can come together so I would say yes and so yes it's very very much tailored and at the same time there's always going to be things that people are not going to like that is going to stir a little more controversy and I think those are just as important because you're getting the direct feedback from the folks who are following along great this is kind of how we've closed off all of our interviews and then after I read this and you respond if you have anything else you'd like to add you're welcome to or if the group has any additional questions many of us recognize there are major changes facing the media in our current political environment even though you're not a media person per se you're certainly an influencer with that in mind what you see as the most critical of those challenges to overcome and maybe more importantly do you see any bright spots or opportunities I think going back to an earlier point the critical thinking critical examination is one of the most important pieces of current media and I feel really honored and privileged that in my upbringing through the public school system that was something that was taught to us how to look at a website and know that to get to its sources to understand that .com is different from .org versus .gov or looking at media sources to be able to find out where that influence is where they are on the scale of left and right and I think that gets lost so often because of social media that there's almost this training that's happening through using these social media outlets that limit you to 10 30 second videos or sharing based on a headline and not actually getting into the protein of the contents and I think there are some bright spots in there it's really wonderful now that social media platforms are starting to lean into that whether it's having on Twitter if you go to reshare an article it asks you hey I didn't even click on this article yet do you want to read this beforehand or just being able to have that question of do or the disclaimers I would say are also helpful of like this is not this is political speech or this is not been fact-checked which are important safeguards but I think it's more that I don't want us to rely on those safeguards I think there are helpful backstop but that we really need to be leaning into literacy around knowing what the sources are knowing what the issues are and understanding again that bias piece which is also being attacked on in the political realm of how are we interrogating our bias in a way that isn't in the sense of I would say making it a much larger issue or that it's this liberal agenda and instead saying we're asking everyone to be critical about this I think so often if there is something that I'm putting out there and it's an agreement with someone who is more right or Republican there's also the left that will come in and be like well how dare you share this point of view and it's I question it I go well why can I not support this point of view shouldn't we be looking for these points of coming together and overlap and collaboration so the question is do you hear a lot from your constituents about your role through social media is that accurate? and the answer is yes yes they are they're reaching out beyond just looking at posts they really interrogate what is in the post especially making sure that if it's not just fun which I think is also really important on social media is to have this balance of like I'm a real life human that does real life things outside of politics and here are all the things that are happening in the state house and those questions are actually really fruitful whether it's a perspective that I didn't think about or I think there's actually a lot of story sharing that happens via social media so people are saying this is the work that you're doing and this is how it directly impacts me which is something I then am able to carry into the work as we move through the policy so when you're at the state house you feel that politically people are working in concert to move Vermonters forward regardless of their political views is that accurate? absolutely I think it's so encouraging I think we get lost in what is happening on the national scale so often that we don't get to really celebrate what we value most here in Vermont is engaging in those difficult conversations and understanding that we all live in the gray area it's not this black and white thinking and so I think it's more evident in the work that we do in committees than it is on the floor the floor is usually when I guess I'll reframe this a lot of our work on bills is happening in committee and so that's where everyone is collaborating and bringing their ideas to the table and finding a way to come together and when it comes to the floor usually you kind of know that it's fully baked and it's going to go through and so that's where it gets a little more partisan there are clear issues that divide along partisan lines but there's something about being able to leave the floor and then still have a conversation about what we just voted on and knowing that that isn't it isn't a fight it's a legitimate conversation if I ever do a vote that someone was not expecting of me they will absolutely come up to me afterwards and be like what were you thinking about in that moment not in a like I need to tell you why you're wrong but like I was genuinely surprised by that and I'd love to get your perspective as to why and it might change their vote in the future it might also just change their perspective of like you know I didn't really look at it that way or maybe you had some misunderstanding there can I get you some more information on that but it never feels ill intended it's always kind of a learning experience that we're all in together it's interesting you see that because we visited the state house and I was personally as one of our days here and I was personally surprised at how important the relationship piece was and so that's what I'm hearing you say really it's the personal connections it's the underlying belief that we're all in this together moving the vote of Vermont forward not necessarily you know regardless of the political views and so I was surprised when you said that initially but now that I think back to the relationship piece that kind of makes sense and then having those discussions after votes that's great that makes sense that it does kind of boil down to maybe I'm missing something maybe you're missing something that's to your point of understanding being a theme here like let's get to that understanding so that's interesting which is so different from what we see on the national level which is like they leave a vote and where are they going they're going to the media first to tell their side of the story or to attack another which is only furthering that divide why are we not having this like conversation and that it was interesting too because in my mind honestly I would think after a vote's done it's done but then to your point there's still the opportunity to learn and so and maybe influence in the future so that's interesting how do we help people whose primary news sources like the snippets of social media get to the protein like you mentioned of this news stories in general that's a challenging one because it I think takes a culture change we've been so there I say indoctrinated by social media to have a shorter attention span or a shorter ability to pay attention to what matters most and I think a piece of that comes from a distrust that's building in media that when we see media so partisan we don't want to engage as much or we don't see it as fulfilling but I think going back to that literacy piece whether it's digital literacy or media literacy being able to highlight where where those those shining lights of hope are in the mix of how are we encouraging I know I think back to again the time in school where it was finding stories from what would be perceived as relatively nonpartisan sites and really digging in deep and talking about the issues that were either local or national or international and being able to bring all these stories in and just going around the room and being like I didn't hear about that I even heard about that and that was when social media was still relatively new and now I think there has to be this balance where we're working with young folks and saying you know how to reach your audience best and there is this information that needs to get out there so how do we find how do we find that balance and I don't I don't know what it is yet I wish I did what has surprised you if anything in your sort of leader role I think what surprised me most is when I was first elected all the questions were like what are you most excited for what are you most nervous about and because of the interaction with media it was this idea that people in the state house wouldn't be able to see beyond my trans identity that I would have to have this extra hurdle of needing to prove my leadership potential or needing to prove that I was elected for more than just one aspect of who I was I think that the surprise was that it wasn't that I didn't have to prove myself to anyone in that building they just accepted as they do with everyone else so like you were elected by your constituents because you have the skills needed to represent your city or your town and I was worried that there would be a lot of teaching and not to say that there isn't a lot of teaching and learning that we're all doing in that space but I thought it would be more work to not only be validated but also not be reduced to one piece and so that was a surprise and made it a whole lot easier to transition into that workplace because folks were just really warm and welcoming even through the zoom land of starting which is so difficult it's one of the most challenging pieces to find those connections via zoom and every time you went on there would be someone who was saying oh gosh we just need to get back in person we just need to get back in person it's so different and I was like okay I don't need to hear this again as to what it's like when we get to be back in person but it was truly fulfilled when we were able to go back into the state house even part time there was just a different feeling of connectedness those relationships that we were talking about I don't think of but just really grateful for a project like this to be looking into media especially in the context of now where everything does feel black and white but I think Vermont has always been a leader in maneuvering that gray so I think we still can if you like this and want to see more watch the rest of the series thank you for watching and please vote