 Hello everyone welcome. My name is Matt Turner. I'm the editor-in-chief for business at Insider and I'm delighted to be with you here today to moderate this panel on the deployment in the metaverse to quote the World Economic Forum. The next era of the internet is fast approaching in the form of the metaverse an immersive interoperable and synchronous digital world. We're here today to talk about the industrial applications of the metaverse and I'm honoured to be joined by an incredible array of panellists with a diverse range of perspectives on this topic. Before I introduce them I just want to say if you're following along with the live stream a reminder that you can use the hashtag hashtag weft 23 to comment and follow along and for those of you in the audience we'll have time at the end to take questions so start thinking about those now. So we're going to talk about problems that the metaverse industry might have us can solve some of the challenges and also use cases which I'm really excited to talk about. So to introduce my panellist to start starting from my immediate left is excellently Abdullah Al-Swaha the Minister of Communications and Information Technology for Saudi Arabia. To his left as a Tamsen SVP and head of new businesses at Ericsson followed by Dr. Bernt Montag chief executive officer of Siemens Healthineers and then on the far left Peggy Johnson CEO of Magic Leap. So just to share an anecdote to kick things off so I've been here in Davos all week and telling those folks that I've been meeting with about this panel and often the response has been the industrial metaverse that sounds fascinating. What exactly is it and so I thought it would be a great place to start when you think of the industrial metaverse what does it mean to you minister. Thanks Matt and let me kick off by establishing one thing first. The current 2D world of the digital world that we live in today is not fit for purpose in the 21st century and I'll share with you a story from neuroscience to prove it as we have Siemens healthcare here with us on the panel. There was a patient by the name of Elliot he used to be a lawyer and his doctor Antonio de Massio extracted a tumor from the right side of his brain and surprisingly post the surgery he was not capable to make decisions anymore because it is emotions that drive action not logic that drives thinking and this is why the 2D world did not work at the time of remote education remote work and this is why you have companies like Salesforce.com JP Morgan calling people back into the office because it's not only killing productivity I would presume it's killing the next generation leaders. We all love it in a meeting when you not your colleague to make sure that you tap him on the back when he's doing a great job or another colleague that is doing a fantastic presentation and you give her two thumbs up or feedback post that session. This is why genuinely I'm a big advocate of the metaverse that it's going to be the next wave of how immersive experiences work for consumers enterprises and the industry. Fascinating and a fascinating story about the lawyer. I'm kind of curious Peggy as well. What do you think of when you think of the industrial and it was what does it mean to you and how do you how do you define it. Well I think it's some sense. It's already here. We're using it with our phones and our physical world. You probably got to this room today because you looked up where it was and that's a digital merging with your physical world. I think that the true potential of it is when your digital and physical worlds actually merge and that's what the metaverse can do when we can put digital content accurately placed within the physical constraints of your world the world that you see and that's when it really comes to life and brings true productivity in these industrial environments. So let's talk about the use cases because I think that helpful in making it real right. So Dr Montag let's start with you in terms of the health care industry. What are the opportunities that you see here. So I take an example from our company our signature business is medical imaging and one way to look at it at imaging is it actually instead of producing slices so the 2D example look at it as producing a digital copy of the patient. And you can interact with this digital copy so to say in the metaverse it's terminology we don't really use in health care but it is basically where things are going. Examples in NYU one of our customers is using cinematic rendering. This is something we use so it's to illustrate disease and instead of sending a report and text to the patient a link to that 3D graph with text and so on and so on. We see people replacing anatomy education instead of using human bodies here switching it to virtual exploring 3D animations and then you look at how care teams will be able to work remotely on a given patient. I look at alternative features depending on how you treat the patient and so on. Then I think you see that in health care there is a lot we can do well. And Peggy we were talking before this meeting about case studies that you have at Magic Leap as well. Yeah so super interesting we've been working with a company that does heart catheterization so ahead of a heart surgery they have to wind a catheter through the vessels and they were previously a surgeon is looking at a 2D screen with some CT scan of the heart and the patients here and they're making their mind to sort of do the work to translate what they're seeing on the 2D screen while they're real time putting the catheter in the heart. Now they're putting the image in front of the surgeon's eyes the heart can be in front of the surgeon's eyes you can open it up and because there's cameras there you can actually see and the accuracy of the catheterization is much higher the outcomes are much greater it's safer for the patient and it's the first example of what I think will just completely change the operating theater the surgical theater you're going to have this additional tool in there I think we'll look back and say do you remember when we used to do surgery without augmentation because it's just a great tool for the surgeons and the outcomes are higher. And just to stay on health care for a moment how much of this is real right now versus what you're seeing into the future and kind of what is that journey look like. I mean in health care things always happen gradually yeah and I mean as a as a general statement to advertise the fields often we hear health care is behind yeah in digital and so on so and it's not because health care is behind but it's more difficult yeah it is you want to have ultimate safety you want to have ultimate trust it is sometimes harder to solve and that is why the adoption also doesn't come in big bang but what you talk about is is also moving us yeah I mean augmenting surgery with with with 3d and other information it is happening and it's the switch from 2d to 3d to 4d and real time which is happening very gradually but not with one singularity type event. And if I could turn to Arthur I'm curious just with a perspective from Ericsson where else beyond health care do you see this having the greatest potential. Well I think with it already now you can say in different maturity steps in many sectors and I think about money that we have not even thought about yet. A couple of cases we've been working with a port in Livorno Italy just the fact you can bring a digital twin real time into operations for the head of operations of the port has reduced operations cost and inefficiencies by 15% but what I think is interesting when you look at ports is the number of CO2 emissions and they've been able to reduce CO2 emissions by 8% you may say 8% only but you know we need every single percent if we're going to meet that goal and I think save our planet so I think there's so many cases we start to see across industry from health care from port operations we had an amazing case that been in operations now for I think almost two years in Australia by a construction company if any one of you ever done a refurbishing project of your bathroom you can imagine you know all the construction buildings and so much inefficiency but it's also kind of a communication problem so once the architect the project manager the construction workers the safety inspectors the auditors but also the users of the future building can actually not only talk about the building it's not because they they may not speak the same what would say typical language but even if you all speak say English you will have a different image in your brain of what that future building look like and the details of it and with that imaging and you know real time digital twin while they're working they can actually start to speak have the same vision speak same language and they improved efficiency reduce the lead time improve the quality they actually have found errors right that they had planned thought were right but once they saw it and can walk through it and it's interesting I think Peggy you mentioned magic leap has now a demo of a similar capability right yeah in the Belvedere hotel here so if you ever have it some extra time pop by because I think I think sometimes you have to almost see it and that's what the CEO at this company said he said once my team put this on they just didn't want to you know they would want to take it off right and this is still scratching on the surface what I'm really excited about if we take a bit longer perspective on use cases is how can we bring more inclusiveness you know how can you use this to onboard new employees faster include more people in a workforce re-skilled people faster include everyone in that meeting and have the same experience or even using that capabilities you can speak the same language okay we have a lot of generative AI where you can actually make now so we can have a conversation in our respective languages and I have that experience is Swedish and we still and for me you speak a Swedish I mean it's fantastic so many people are developing languages but it money that don't and they are not included in every conversation and I think that's really where I'm excited about what we can what we can realize if we use this capability to write to follow up to one just which industries are you seeing the greatest adoption and the greatest just interest in terms of the conversations you're having where people are leaning into this it's I think it's hard because at the moment there are islands and I would say Park would be interesting to hear I think perspective on this as well but I see more island I don't see cases where this is oh it was a big huge wave and I adopted it but I think we say a lot of interest and immediate benefits to onboarding skills used by many automotive OEMs in production you can bring also expertise skills to field workers I think we're seeing it a lot in many industrial classic applications and see most experimentation by the verticals are already quite advanced in using automation technologies like automotive OEMs consumer electronics the other part where I've seen quite a lot is actually huge retail and consumer goods companies that are working have quite a big turn of employees and used this to improve and shorten the time for employee onboarding and training so that's where I see most and then I seen a lot of exciting cases in healthcare but I don't think I think to your point adoption takes some time but quite a significant breakthrough when you think about the impact yeah just to add on to that we're seeing a lot of activity in industrial settings factories and we're we've had companies now who are training their employees used to train them in a classroom with manuals then put them out on the factory floor after a few weeks with this type of technology a headset on your eyes they can bring them on board much more quickly they reduce their training costs by 80% PBX linear a small Midwestern manufacturers been using it 80% reduction in training costs but interestingly 25% reduction in rework and scrap which is a real savings right there but the one that I found the most I don't know most promising is the engagement that the employees had they feel more empowered they don't have to go ask somebody because the answers are basically wearing a PC on their eyes the answers are in front of them and the retention that it's caused which is right now a huge problem in the industry the industry the industrial manufacturing settings are retiring they're retiring in droves and they can't bring enough people on you know and with the low employment rates it's a real problem so this is a tool that can really change the dynamic in that space and what is so one of the comments that I heard earlier in the week is you know pilots would go into a simulator and spend hours in a simulator before they actually get into a plane and start flying and what have you and in a way that that kind of mimics some of what we're describing right and so the use of this in training seems very exciting as a you kind of alluded to this that sometimes there's companies have to buy in and they have to get their employees to buy in to a degree right I think you gave the example of once our team saw it they didn't want to take it off but they had to maybe be convinced to try it in the first place is that something that you see I think at the moment where I've seen that adoption you already have you could say champion is really excited about it you could ever say dig sometimes call it the geeky alright it's the typical have a lease I think and this is different I think then the discussion we had when we talk more generically about automation where you felt a threat because you were going to be replaced I think what we see many of the cases with mixed reality is actually more real-time helpful data that empowers the person doing their job maybe can do it safer maybe they can do it smarter and I think we've seen that in many many cases so I seen less of a conflict to be honest in that then I think you have to try it on to see the power of it yeah you try and you need to experiment with it minister your chairman of neons company focused on future technologies including the metaverse what is it that you see is the greatest potential and kind of can you just take me behind the scenes a little bit behind Saudi Arabia's kind of investment in the metaverse more generally so let me share with you examples from Ericsson health care and magic leap as we have the great pleasure of collaborating with some of the biggest innovators in this space on 5G the kingdom celebrates with Ericsson one of the fastest you know 5G deployment and as a matter of fact in terms of spectrum allocation the kingdom today ranks number one in terms of spectrum allocated for the industrial internet the industrial 5G and subsequently the metaverse which is all important about the latency that is required to enable those use cases when it comes to neom I'll share with you about neom and about the Red Sea project and the chairman the conference he has a saying prove it to me in a digital twin first so prove it to me in the metaverse first so we promised him during the Red Sea project they were going to deliver zero ways to landfill and he was able to show it to me on the design phase the build phase the optimization phase and we were able to collaborate with those top innovators to showcase it within neom we made a promise that we're going to preserve 95% of the environment and we were able to do that let me segue into a Ramco and Sabic because they actually have the showcase here in Davos we have a center called ICE which is innovation for the circular economy and we were able to leverage the digital twins the metaverses to produce the lowest carbon intensity when it comes to our energy production but also prevent flaring with an IOT implementation last but not least with Magic Leap we're training our folks to improve retention of these employees as they go into those energy environments and be able to deploy solar and wind in a much faster and practical way. Fascinating so let's talk about the impediments and the challenges what you've described just huge potential but clearly as there always are challenges so I'm curious as to what do you see as being the challenges to a faster adoption essentially. I think one is yes if you call it just the anteatering so I think we have a paradox which is a lot of the metaverse stack is really built up by AI capabilities and that does well now requires a lot of power on the one hand on the other hand you want the devices to be as smooth as easy to use small so they're easy to adopt right and you have a very clear conflict there and I think this is obviously where Ericsson is trying to improve the quality and capabilities of the network but I don't think that will be enough I think you have to couple that together with more edge compute more edge capability because then you can actually offset a lot of the computing from the device itself and I think that is that you can argue for one factor one site for sure no actually not that not that complicated however once you want to have this across sites across experience across different tech stacks providers that's when we get into a bit more complexity so I think able to find a way where we can more in a more standardized way continue to distribute workloads across different stacks connectivity cloud edge but also across provider and private and public I think that there we still have work to do and many many actors are working on it I think the other big one to me is bias so we are at end of the day since a big part of the stack use a lot of AI capabilities it will never be better than the data is trained on so I think we have responsibility and I think learnings from a previous work with AI how can we make sure that we have a full inclusive data set when we are rendering you know visuals images faces but also how we interpret it interpret different body language all of that will come through as we evolve this and I think quite often we say best effort first and this is an afterthought I think we have an opportunity to make make sure we have a rich more inclusive data set from the start great night I'll put the same question to Dr. Montag and Peggy so I think in in healthcare there's when it comes to new technologies there's always I think two things one is trust yeah so that and the other one is and you is how do physicians look at themselves so I expand on this a bit later trust is I mean in healthcare super important and that is also what makes healthcare so more challenging yeah because there is no room for error and there is no room for a data privacy problem problem and so on and and there is no misstep allowed this I wouldn't call this an impediment it is a necessity but something we just have to be extremely mindful about the other topic is whenever we augment capabilities of physicians there is a mindset switch necessary yeah so I take an example is almost of the past in the past a radiologist basically took pride I am good at looking at 2d slices and I can reconstruct in my mind what the disease is I see internally so to say the 3d this is a tumor when you suddenly see a 3d tumor it is almost like an attack on on who you believe you are yeah but what is necessary is that you then say well you know this step became mundane now I can work on the next problem yeah I think this is super important that how do we say hey I'm not a pattern recognition machine yeah I am here to bring innovations to healthcare I am the communicator in a care team yeah I'm the editor of the diagnostic information is a different way to look at yourself yeah and I think this is this needs to have we need care yeah and and take this very serious yeah because especially in healthcare what people have learned defines them as persons yeah it's not like in any other job you can you can change yeah in healthcare you are a cardiologist and you stay a cardiologist you cannot say hey next thing is I do anesthesia yeah so we take away something from them and we need to make sure that there's no barrier can you just describe how you're tackling some of the challenges I want to be to Peggy in a moment but I mean fascinating it it's in the end I mean when you look at adoption curves in our industry I mean and it sounds a little bit like textbook yeah but you need to work with the early adopters yeah you need to work with the guys in the in the in this mini community of a medical specialty who are the front runners and then people see while this guy is doing this yeah or this lady is doing this yeah I and it's somebody who is like me and and I can see it's this is not replacing me as a physician this makes me a better physician and the future is a physician who's using this and I want to be part of it it's not a threat I want to shape this yeah I think it's really about selecting the right showcases yeah so our neons so to say yeah it's interesting because we were talking about this on a panel yesterday this kind of generational gap you're comfortable using something in a certain way and now you have got a new tool that could possibly give more value but you there's a bit of a obstacle there to adoption and we have seen that we learned a lot from our going from our first device to our second device just about the usability people have to pick it up over whatever they used to be doing and if you can't solve that for them you know the technology is just going to sit on a shelf so the product itself has to be small and light it can't bother your nose and your head it can't be hot and heavy it's got to be able to be comfortable and provide value for someone to choose it over whatever they were doing looking at a 2d screen or a manual or something like that so we spent a lot of time on the human factors around it to make it comfortable so people will choose that over you know the old habit that they had but it's definitely a problem that you know new technology you need to find the early adopters and we've gone to industries who already are wearing something on their eyes so defense public sector health care many times surgeons are wearing magnifiers and things in industrial settings are wearing safety goggles so those are they're comfortable with it and that's why that was the first entry point that we focused on how are you tackling this it sounds like the crown prince is an early adopter one of the folks that we've been talking about yes but but beyond that how are you tackling what's been described in terms of in terms of getting people comfortable with using this changing changing that habit somewhat I completely agree with what was shared it's about the bias it's about the interoperability and it's about making sure that we don't have any red taping or red flagging let's talk about the bias today if you just search on your typical search engine beautiful hair and not so beautiful hair you'll find two ethnic groups and that's completely not acceptable we're all excited about you know open a AI and chat GBT there's a new tool called Dali to which is all about text to imagery and again bias if you say beautiful eye it will show you one shade of color let me give you a hint it's not right secondly when you're talking about red flagging and red taping and I want to college here on the stage Microsoft they did the right thing but they did on their own and that's why we need a collective effort and I remember you spoke about his Royal Highness the conference we were we were very fortunate during the G 2020 the toughest year that humanity have seen under his leadership to drive consensus on the OECD principles for trustworthy AI how it should be robust inclusive human centred with security with accountability so this is one clear example of Microsoft taking accountability for Minecraft when they stopped their blockchain engine because it was driving the wrong behavior last but not least you talk about interoperability the theme this year at web is quite a new system for cooperation and collaboration in this fragmented world we have so much polarization in the analog world let's make sure that we don't have it in the digital world and definitely nothing that differs so just to build on that then what is you have a great perspective having been in the private sector now in government what part does cooperation between public and private between regulatory bodies between the education system what does that look like what does it have to look like do you think the most beautiful thing that I have seen is drawing parallels from success stories that we've had in fintech in green tech and those successful stories it started with one principle innovate and regulate sandboxes we need right now and we were very happy and fortunate that we have launched a number of sandboxes with a Ramco with Sabbath and it's showcased today at Weff and with Neo in how we're bringing academia innovators policy makers and regulators into one sandbox to make sure that it's a safe environment for us to innovate in health care in in with with Ericsson and with magic leap so that's the first principle secondly let's start with guiding principles let's let's you know this is a low regulatory environment to begin with but let's not make sure that we have some guiding principle on at least what is right and what is wrong let's let's move a little bit from the red taping to to red carpet when it comes to the metaverse and last but not least is success breed success as we celebrate what we have done with around call in in their training and their retention with Sabbath and how we have simulated wind turbines and PV solar panels with better efficiency and with new home and red sea projects preserving the environment and safeguarding the planet so it's moving from those pilots to prototypes to success and scaling them up I saw your fellow panelists nodding along there so I'd love to turn to them as well on this in terms of the role of cooperation between government and private sector and beyond I mean I think there are a number of different dimensions that I think that collaboration is to happen I think first of all just coming to the basic capability of connectivity that would be needed in most of these cases we still have very different starting points for just getting the right license to spectrum people even make this opportunist capabilities available to all people around the world and even in Europe we were struggling big time to catch up I think there are many many leading countries that have been faster in adopting that across the world so I think that's just one fundamental how do you make sure to put the right regulations policies in place so the foundational technology is actually there accessible for all all countries all people be included in that you could say sandbox or innovation but frankly also even be part and learn the skills you can also be part and relevant when jobs are created and companies are grow growing or created based on these capabilities the other part I think is really about your point about sandboxing sometimes I mean there are important things that are some that we raise you know and bias on privacy security and sometimes we have a tendency that we want to over-regulate everything because we just don't want to see any mistakes and I think here comes the paradox yes we need to design there are you know the kind of the platform and solutions so it address these concerns but if we don't experiment if we don't learn if we don't do that sandbox thing then we will frankly not so we will not get anywhere right and I think here we can learn a lot I mean both from me and by frankly also from the US that I think has been very successful of not putting too much regulation early which is why it's a much more busy investments much for more capital going into this early stage of innovation but also much more startups right and then once it becomes big and proven well then you start with the regular regulatory actions right then you actually have something to regulate with that said I think we can still learn when it comes to buy a secure and think about that design and make that part of the end innovation what does this look like for you Dr. Montag maybe a little bit of a different angle yeah because I was yesterday in in a session the quantum tipping point and and then relatively at half of the session or so there was suddenly the discussion how do we make sure the global south benefits from this technology so it came as an awkward but extremely important comment yeah I found so one different question is yeah when you say in the metaverse do we want to do the typical stuff yeah we start with the people who have everything already and then comes the next challenge how do we make it accessible for the four for eight billion yeah and I believe in in in in again in health care there's always two vectors of development one is how do you improve for this already out there the other thing how do you make things accessible where it's not yet here and I think one important topic and this is maybe where governments in our space will could play also our role is how can we use these technologies to leapfrog certain developments in the global cell in the global south yeah where you don't have to break a bias of an existing system but there is no existing system and you jump to the target state right away I mean like the famous mobile phone example yeah I think this is something we should put on the map and I haven't really sorted it out yet but I think it's in for me I think it's an important thought in this thought yesterday really was was eye-opening for me yeah an incredibly important point go ahead so I think whenever you're launching new technologies and hopefully we've learned from past launches is you really need to work with government early and often so they understand what these technologies can do the extent of the impact they can have and that's actually something I learned at Microsoft I think I think they do that a very nice job of that and as we began to launch augmented reality you have to remember these devices are not a cell phone they are brimming with sensors there's five cameras looking at your eyes because we need to know where your eye is gazing so we can put the digital content there there's four cameras looking out at the world mapping the world constantly so we can succinctly and accurately place that content so these are not you know your grandfather cell phone these are something completely different and we've been engaged with the government since the start so they can understand so that they don't over regulate but they also don't under regulate and that I think that's the appropriate way to bring new technologies in you don't want to suppress innovation but you also don't want to allow some of this out in the wild without the proper constraints around it I want to ask two more questions and then we'll take questions from the audience first off just around skills we've talked about how the industrial metaverse can be used to train up people in different professions but what does this skills is there a skill shortage in terms of people to build and maintain these applications right like what is there enough tech talent right now what what needs to be done in that space well I mean we draw from the gaming community often because gaming gamers are building 3d images if you've ever played any games and so that is a base skill that is required you know developers who can code in platforms like unity and unreal and those physics engines those are things and I think there's probably not yet enough emphasis on that from graduating students so that's something we have to shift a little bit so that we have more skills to build these very useful applications I would be able to hear from I'm actually I mean of course one always has to say we don't have get enough people and so on and so on yeah but actually I'm I'm pretty happy with where we are and and I think what what what the difference is it is the purpose it and is is for for the generation which is most active in this it really makes a difference yeah in gaming is maybe nice or optimizing search engines and so on yeah but having an impact yeah on on global health care and and especially when it's so visible yeah so immersive like working on this yeah is a super attractive field yeah so and that really helps us also interesting minister I'd be interested to get your perspective you work with Magic League with Microsoft but what does it look like for you in the sense I think this is a global headwind I mean we have says that there is four million cybersecurity professionals that we need yesterday and four million quarters but I think we were able to shift that you know headwind to a tailwind in partnership with you and with you so the kingdom in the past five years we've jumped as a tech force from a hundred fifty thousand tech force to three hundred and forty thousand just to put things in this in context the Silicon Valley has three hundred and eighty four thousand but they achieved that in fifty years so that shows you the rate of speed and change that is happening in collaboration with you but what's more importantly is the women inclusion story and I would argue that this is the most audacious women empowerment and inclusion story in the 21st century we have jumped from seven percent women empowerment in tech and stem to 32 percent surpassing the EU average G20 average and even the Silicon Valley average and it's not a surprise that in terms of women founders the kingdom today globally ranks number one so we're doubling town on talent and technology in the industrial metaverse just very quickly how on earth do you do that it's remarkable achievement but I'm curious five years ago the journey started with Prince Mohammed bin Salman Misk foundation in which they have ramped up what we call the million you know lives program in which we have touched a million women and youth not only the kingdom but in the region and we started with Microsoft Peggy at that time was at Microsoft we started right now with with Magic Leap and with Siemens and with Ericsson and that created a movement and a momentum and a tipping point happened and this way if we announce with IBM with Coursera reskilling and upskilling with IBM 100,000 folks and with Coursera 250,000 folks and we intend under a new organization that we recently announced called the digital cooperation organization to open up that toolbox to more than 30 nations to be able to create one of the largest upskilling and reskilling movement in the digital economy last question before we turn to the audience and I know this is probably impossible to answer but I'm just curious about expectations on time frame like what do we in five years time how prevalent will this technology be what we'll be looking at just across each of your perspectives to start with Peggy well a lot of times I'm asked about consumer actually our company started with a focus on consumer and it was not quite the right time like many technologies the products there the timing isn't quite right but I think in order to really get to a consumer tool that everyone can use it's going to take some time it's going to take a few years maybe as much as five years the silicon has to integrate further much like a mobile phone did it was big and then it was small the components have to reduce the batteries have to get much much smaller so there's there's going to be a trajectory very similar to mobile phones we'll see in this space until we can get to consumer I do think we'll be a consumer about five four five years out and then I'm curious your perspective on this I think it's also defined you know it's it we have to start with definition what does it mean you know adoption I think when you think about you big you know having a fully ubiquitous metaverse across also I don't know will we ever get there I'm not sure but I do think we'll start to see adoption of capabilities that are part of this mixed reality and also a lot of the generative AI that goes into it I think we can see fully mixed and immersive experience in islands and locations so that that's what I expect but just to put some perspective I mean when we started if we think about apps you have today and you get an SMS notification that is built on a standardization of a global API for SMS that took 20 years 20 years to get there into one global stand it's not we had a mobile standard right but I'm also very encouraged I think we will go faster but I don't think it will take you know I don't think it will take two years if we look at when South Korea started rolling out 5G is the fastest adoption of any technology we've seen so far in a country so the speed is increasing it has increased a lot but I'm also very humble in terms of both on the device side the frankly the network and computing side and how to manage those workloads as well as actually build a whole ecosystem that will innovate and create those meaningful applications so it gets used and even if we when we get there there will also be being about adopting getting that doctor to really use that capability so I don't know I think it will take time until you see the full spread adoption but it's also clear that people now want to experiment that I heard a survey I think a century of 55 percent of 9,000 survey consumers wanted to be part of the metaverse and start using at least start using an application this year I think if you hear from industrial leaders you heard 70 percent are looking that they want to start using and piloting if they're not already metaphor no meta-capable application so I think we'll see different journeys and then we may see kind of sandboxes where that adoption is going faster we can see what this possible and dr. Montague just what does the hospital of the future look like five years time let's say how how prevalent will this technology be in medicine and healthcare I mean one the discussion is will there be a hospital yeah yeah and I mean it's a bit of a provocative statement but to some extent the hospital is defined as I need to go the patient needs to go somewhere to get the treatment because there are the specialists who do the stuff yeah so the question is what does the what what do the technologies we talk about mean for this yeah do we can you get surgery from somebody I mean not at home okay but you know for who is not at exactly this hospital or you can emergency cases be treated like this so and I think that this will be will start there will be centers in the time frame you mentioned where this becomes routine yeah and I think otherwise you it is use case by use case we will have universities where medical education is completely done virtually instead of cutting human bodies yeah and we will have care teams working virtually on working in the medical metaverse if you wish yeah on on cases because the topic of collaboration yeah is super essential in medicine yeah so there's an entity called the tumor board yeah there's where all the people the surgeon the radiologist and so on come together to decide what is happening what should we do with this patient yeah so the multidisciplinary nature is extremely important in medicine yeah but that is also a big opportunity for metaverse type applications how do you bring these people together without having necessarily to be in the same hospital it's fascinating I want to give the audience we have a sizable audience here an opportunity to ask questions I think we have microphones or do we just go ahead yes I think here in the front I'm David King from Korea I am the chairman of Jason Group which is one of the largest natural gas company in the country so based on the constant cash flow from the natural gas I've decided to go into the private equity and so far the successful and recently I earmarked about $10 million for investment in the metaverse but for myself I'm confused because it all sounds like AI or computer graphics the same thing so my question for the panel is why it's so unique and different is metaverse compared to pre-decessors like all the additional things great question I'll start with Peggy I think wow you know I think what's different it's a different medium and it's something that you know we haven't had the opportunity to engage in much because we haven't had the devices out there but it's a completely different medium you can put 3d images in front of your eyes you know eventually we'll be able to have you know depict people not just avatars people who will be somewhere in the world in front of our eyes and I think we're still learning about all the opportunities ahead I liken it very much to the mobile phone when it first came out everyone thought wow you can make a phone call from your car isn't that great you don't have to stop and find a phone booth and park and all that that was what a mobile phone was I was there was back at the call come days it's very this technology is very similar what we're talking about today is what you can do with it today there's a very useful use cases today but in the future I think it's sort of the sky is the limit it is the next paradigm in computing and I would not bet against it I think just a bill on that I think perhaps part and the shipper maybe some of the confusion is what you describe in Pegas kind of it's a it's a blending of worlds right and blending and that whole experience what we call the metaverse we blend the physical and digital world but what we can do with it actually reducing so many capabilities and that's why you were here about computing that's why you will hear about XR VR AR that's why we'll hear about all the AI capabilities because you're using those capabilities when you create in the experience or applications that you want to use in what we call the collective kind of concept the metaverse are there any a just a question for me a follow-up question are there any where would you recommend we go here in Dava so there on the promenade or elsewhere where you can actually try this on or use it if there is there anywhere that we can yes we have a small booth in the first floor of the Belvedere room 140 if you want to come by I know there's also Accenture has several devices I'm sure meta is showing their devices Microsoft has a collaboration village with the Wef so there's there are a lot of opportunities at the conference this year and that's it any other questions from the audience I have one more the one question I was going to ask sorry if there's any hands what we haven't talked about is kind of the the commercial opportunity here and kind of sizing that like how you know we've talked about productivity gains in terms of sustainability gains as well in terms of cutting out the unnecessary use of resources in terms of training employees like how big of a business opportunity is this ultimately how big does this market grow to I mean I can quote a number IDC has a number of 140 billion over say the next five years of everything that's AR VR consumer and enterprise having said that the fastest growing line in there is enterprise AR because it actually actually has use cases that have ROI right now and for example in the medical market do you have a sense of in our case it's like I mean imagine 50 years ago somebody what is the market for computers yeah and and and I think yeah and there's also the debate what is the potential of AI in health care and so on I think and it's also to your point in at least in our industry quote unquote we shouldn't put this as a separate market it needs to be completely integrated and the more we have the feeling we need to charge extra money for it the more we are maybe on the wrong track yeah it needs to be an integral part of how health care is delivered and make it more efficient yeah so from that point of view it is just one of the many wonderful innovation opportunities in health care and we will make some money for you yeah I I echo that that I actually refrain from making big you know predictions of how big the market will be because I think we're still learning and I fully agree that it's not it will not be one independent market it's so many interrelated capabilities but what I think is an interesting point also if you look at just if today we have I think three billion people around the world who don't are not connected who doesn't have the basic connectivity right and we've seen just by connecting those people we will actually contribute to GDP growth we will contribute economic health education inclusion so I think also in the context of being at the World Economic Forum I think of course it's the big business potential and I think once you get a right adoption because there is tremendous value we've seen that it will be big but I think also from a bigger you know from the macroeconomic side and also from health and inclusion I think about if we can also do that leapfrog first connect give that basic need of connectivity which can enable education and health for many people who don't have access to it today but what if you could also get that leap make that leap so you can actually get access to the medical expertise although it doesn't exist in your country and you can actually start to completely redesign how you get access to good quality health care regardless of where you live and also same thing with education I think that will be quite interesting will there be hospitals will there be just one physical institution called Harvard or Stanford or you know how will that look like when you start to look at both education health for the masses but also the quality and specialist education and healthcare that's a great note to close on I'm conscious of time this has been a fascinating discussion thank you all for attending we've heard about the real-world case studies the challenges and also the importance of cooperation I want to thank our panelists for joining us I think want to thank our audience as well and of course the world economic forum for putting this event on thank you for attending and goodbye