 Okay, so like I just said, this morning session will start with a theory into practice, but still making a bridge. So something to ease you in before we jump all the way in and talk about your potential projects. So it's a case study, it's actually part of a book on mature innovation platforms that was published earlier this year in January. The book comprises case studies from three continents, predominantly from Africa, but then also from Latin America and a couple of cases from Asia. The book is right now on sale from the publisher and it's quite expensive, but if you absolutely want to have a copy, you know, I can give you the URL, but if you can wait for two more months it will become open access and then you can download it, you know, and use it freely. So you know, the publisher probably will not be happy to hear me say it, but you know, I'm giving you both options. So in terms of this case, we will also have teaching notes and lesson plans available for all nine cases in the book. So as part of your work later, if you want to use such materials, again, they'll all be freely available to you. So who can tell me a little bit about the Milkit case study? What are we talking about in the Milkit case study? So let's start with the basics. Who is our protagonist? Who is the focus, the hero, the heroine of the story? Okay? All women? Okay. Please use the microphone. Keep speaking, yes, please. The women in this paper. Yes. Any one woman in particular? Tulsi Devi. Tulsi Devi, yes, absolutely. So in a case study, we typically have a protagonist. The protagonist is the hero or the heroine of the story and their dilemma is what the story revolves around. Because we are hardwired as humans to connect to stories and individuals. So what keeps Tulsi Devi up at night? Why is a case written in which she features? Anne Smith. Yes, so she's struggling to make Anne Smith. What else? Because she's a reader and she has limited resources. Yes, so she's a widow. She has limited resources. So we always want to know a bit more about who we're dealing with, right? So we know that Tulsi, the case tells us she's a 39-year-old widow from the Basari village in the Uttarakhand state of India at the Himalayas. Before the Milkit IP, she was struggling to even pay the school fees for her children, right? And she even had to send her eldest son, who was only 15, to Delhi, to the capital city to work. This is important to us for what reason to know these things. Why is it pertinent to you? Why do the case writers tell you this? Why should we care? It's actually a part of, it's kind of a stakeholder analysis. You have, through the background information, you can have the needs and preference, actually, you can know the needs and preference of your main actor or your target beneficiary. Absolutely. What else? Why else is this important to us? I think because we have to know the situation of the beneficiary before the project. Right? So absolutely. We don't want to rush in with a solution before we know what the problem is. So this gives us a little bit more information about our beneficiary, about the target audience we're trying to reach, absolutely. What else? Well, Tulsi Devi is a typical example of a poverty indulge of women hoping to increase her income. Absolutely. So it's a good example to study. Absolutely. Ronan, you wanted to add something? The basic tenet of doing developed work is to identify or understand your target audience and basically she's one of the target audience. Absolutely. So yes, please. Actually it's as baseline information so that what we have to do and then as an indicator to evaluate in the end. Absolutely. So it also gives us baseline information so that later we can assess has the intervention been effective or not and how do we measure that whether we do it with traditional indicators or whether we use reflexive monitoring in action, absolutely. So yes, please. Doing a situation analysis is very basic, it's a very basic requirement whenever you like to introduce something new or in any development intervention, you have to understand the situation. So. Absolutely. So doing a situational analysis before you jump in is good practice that should be followed. More than all of these things are true and you can now grasp how in one opening paragraph already so much information is being given to us in terms of the structure, the things we need to be aware about, thinking about how this can develop into all kinds of elements that we discussed yesterday in terms of targeting, analysis, monitoring and so on. But to me the most striking feature here, the capturing story is what Willie mentioned. Tulsi Devi as portrayed here is like the poster child of the person we want to reach and better through our interventions, right? A widow raising her family, not being able to meet ends meet, having to send, you know, her children to work and then suddenly we find an intervention that can help turn that around. Isn't that a good story? Isn't that something that we can be proud of? Isn't that something that we'd love to be true and scale up? So the opening there and your introduction to the protagonist and what our struggle is and what our approach is already sets the scene for us in terms of how we go forward. Of course the case tells us that after joining the Milkit IP she could generate a regular income, send her children to school and so on and so forth. So this is clearly something that off the bat tells us that hey, this is something interesting happening here, yeah? Do you think Tulsi Devi is an isolated case? Can you think of Tulsi Devi's in your own countries, in the areas that you work? So this is not an unusual sort of rare occurrence, we all know and heard of many such cases and if we work closer to the ground we're faced with these realities day in and day out. Will the solution be dairy farming for each and every one of these women globally? Why not? Of course there will be several options that you have to look into and dairy farming is not inherent to any other, to all the women. So you have to look at other options. Sure. One minute. So I mean the point is pretty clear, we're not talking about this case as a one size fits all solution to all these problems, right? This is not what the case is suggesting. However, what we like about cases and what we want to seek out of the case is the general themes, the similarities, the processes, the practices that we can take and apply in our own work depending on the context. So this is not only a case about Tulsi Devi and her village in India. So what can you tell me about the formation of the innovation platform there? How did they go about it? First they form a village cluster and then they identified stakeholders that probably can help and then they have some focal group discussions for three times, I think, with the villagers. Thank you. One of the other tables in the back, tell me a little bit more about how many people are covered by this innovation platform. So the project covers the 1,244 families in 21 villages in which they have identified from the two villages, namely the Bageshwar and Almora. Okay, the last point I wanted, I hope you would come up and say, well, it focuses on women. The main beneficiaries here were women. This is a very much a gender transformative approach. It's not just a technological innovation, it has other sociocultural, economic aspects to it which are worthy of being noted on their own right. Okay? So just in case, this is what cows look like in Uttarakhand, I've learned that cows look pretty differently in different parts of the world, so it helps seeing the nature of the beast we are talking about. And I thought we could maybe click a bit, so we could do a review of some of the learning with active participation by all, so that everyone have a clicker. Yes? If you don't have a clicker, please raise your hand and Jules will provide you with one. So let's start. What were the objectives of the Milkit innovation platform? Please read the possible answers and answer A, B, C or D. Okay, notwithstanding the slight technical difficulty, we did get an overwhelming correct response, so it's all of the above, yeah? So the point here is that an innovation platform can and usually does have more than one narrow objective, yeah? And in fact, as you'll recall, these objectives might evolve over time. So these might be the objectives at a given point of time. If we go back to the same platform six months later or a year later, we might actually find them having moved beyond those objectives and are now tackling other objectives. They may have moved from a productivity to a natural resource management to another theme, yeah? But yes, in this particular case, there were three objectives or at least three objectives that the case tells us about. They wanted to boost the milk sales for over 1,200 families in 21 village. Is that the scale that they're interested in? Is this sufficient scale to justify this intervention? I'd like to hear your opinion about this. I see some people nodding and many people not moving. I can read your mind saying, don't look at me, don't look at me. Who will step forward with an opinion? Don't discuss in your groups, discuss with the plenary. Yes, please. I think the scale is based on the approach we choose. And I think this project is based on local economic development. So the project implements in a specific region. So the scale is, I think, has no problem with this approach. Okay, so for this approach, you find the scale appropriate. Yes, you also wanted to come in. I saw you. Yeah, for this intervention, I think the scale is good enough because I saw towards the end of the paper that it's actually being looked into for possible policy intervention or recommendation to outscale to other villages. So I think this scale is good enough to serve as a sample or as a pilot site so that it may be outscaled to other villages. Yes, very true. So I mean, there's a couple of things here and I want to emphasize them because it's very important as policy makers that you have this reflex. The first thing, you know what the biggest disease in the development sector is? The most damaging disease that we face. The serious condition, it's called pilotitis. We do pilots and more pilots and more pilots. If the phone companies adopted the same approach, three villages in the Philippines could speak only with three villages in Ethiopia. The rest of the country would not be connected because it's only in a pilot phase, it hasn't been rolled out. We need to think of solutions that can actually scale. So it's absolutely fine to say, well, you know, as a pilot, 1,200 families, about 5,000-6,000 people, yeah, it's okay. We can get some insights from that. And yes, we can. But we need to always think, how will this scale? And what will scale? Will the technical innovation or the process innovation? And that's important to distinguish because the cost of scaling them might be very different. And that brings me to the second point that I would always encourage you to think. The answer that I would have expected to get straight away is we don't have the data. Because we don't know how much this project costs. If I told you that this project cost $5,000 and it helped improve the lives of 1,200 families, would you say this is a worthwhile project? What if I told you it cost $5,000,000? Yeah, is it still worthwhile? Yes? Your benchmark should always be, always, is this better than cash? So if we took the amount of money that was invested in this project and just delivered it as an unconditional cash transfer to the same beneficiaries, in this case, how much would $5,000,000 into 1,200 families work out to be? Yeah, roughly? Do the math? Please do the math. When I was in school, in primary school, studying multiplication and division, and sometimes I didn't like it, my teacher used to say, what do you think, all of your life you'll walk around with a calculator in your pocket? I want to catch my teacher now and tell her yes. And so will everyone else? So, $5,000,000 into 1,200 family works into about $4,166 per family. What is the additional income that is being generated here? Is it larger than that? That is the kind of thinking. Forget the $5,000,000,000,000, that's a made up number, that's not really the cost. The point is that when you look at this as a policymaker, you should say, I don't have the pertinent information. I'm being sold a very nice story here, but I need to see the figures. How can I recommend this for or against this as a national policy if I don't know how much it costs and I don't know what the alternatives are? Yeah? So that's the kind of thought process that we should always have when we look at these cases from a policy perspective, right? But yes, we have improved productivity, generated more income, and we helped more than 1,000 families improve their situation quite considerably. What was the geographical unit that the Milkit focused on to carry out the work? A, B, C, or D? Now, you should not be looking at the case right now. I hear too many papers shuffling. That's not the intention. Okay, 14, 15, let's click through these rather quickly. Okay, yes. And again, you're making me think that you actually did read the case because the vast majority of you got this answer correctly. Now, whenever someone tells you what is the best way to always be suspicious, but anyway, bear with me, what is the best method for finding institutional partners to include in the innovation platform? Is it A, B, C, or D? Interesting. And correct. Yes, so we basically want to align with the right institution. Clearly, that's very comfortable for this group. Another question. What do they mean, or what do we mean when the case speaks of group liability instead of asset liability? Is it A, B, C, or D? Okay, 17, 18, let's start and click quickly. The remaining ones, yes. So this is a bit trickier for some, but the vast majority of you are correct. It's basically moving away from a formal collateral base, asset-based lending, into a group liability where the social capital or the peer vouching for each other acts as the collateral. It's a very popular concept in microfinance. Why is it relevant to this particular case to this particular women like Tulsi? Why would Tulsi need this mechanism? Because most of the milk women do not have any properties to serve as a collateral, exactly. Because most poor smallholder farmers in Tulsi's situation would not have formal assets. They may have assets, but they may not be formal. So she may have a house, but she may not have the title to the land, yeah? So formal financial institutions would often say, well, I can't lend you. You're too big of a risk. So this mechanism, we championed through the microfinance movement, has made it possible to get access to working capital through this channel. I think I've just answered that, so we'll move on. So what steps, remember we said this is a gender-driven focus on women. So what steps did the Milkit IP take to address potential distorted power dynamic? Did A, B, C, or D, yes. So they held meetings in locations that were considered safe spaces where women would feel free to voice their opinions. And what methods did Milkit adopt to spread the use of the fees? Truffs and choppers. Ah, the room is split for the first time today. Yes, the correct answer is D. I'd like us to talk a little bit about the constraints, achievements, and how the IP went about overcoming the challenges. So first of all, without looking at your paper, can somebody tell me what were the two major constraints that this group based? Yes, please. Just one, please. I think there were lots of wastage from the father, the feeding material. Okay, wastage, fine, thank you. The first one is, the first constraint is that these tanks travel? Absolutely. So the first constraint is we have small villages, long distances, where can we sell? Absolutely. And what is the second heading in the case study that highlights the challenge? Someone else, please. Okay, I just read about the feeding. Yes, what about the feeding? So they have lack of the, yeah. Yes. So you're right, it's around the feeding. And it's how do we manage the father's scarcity? Right? There's lots of questions that I have. I'd like you to discuss. So I'd like you to take 10 minutes in your groups. But to make this more efficient, split your groups into two. This group of five and this group of three should become two groups of four, please. And then split into pairs, if you can. And try taking, one pair takes the top three questions, the other takes the last three questions so that we try to cover and have answers to all of the questions. So take 10 minutes. Discussing your pairs, the questions which are on the screen. And then please prepare for a plenary discussion. Time flies when you're having fun. The 10 minutes are over. And I'd love to hear some of your views on the questions on the screen. So I'm gonna start picking up tables. And you can give me two answers to any question that you want, one from each mini group, from each table. Okay? Let me start with the table here in the back. Pick a question, any question. Okay, what kind of incentive can an IP provide to the private sector to engage in supplying or purchasing from the IP? Since in this case, the farmers also negotiated with the private feed companies to supply feeds at a lower price or at a wholesale price. And more finance institutions also provide capital for the farmers to purchase upgraded stocks or the cross-bred cows in order to produce more milk production. What other mini group tackled the same question? One is about the one that will buy the milk. So to attract the private sector, the project needs to collect higher volume of milk and then the second one with the private sector of the feed, concentrate feed by collective buying the farmers, they can get a wholesale price, lower prices. Absolutely, so both of these sets of answers are very correct and we want to focus on these things. The private sector involvement is crucial when we talk about increasing productivity and increasing the money that's left in the farmers' pockets. So this integration and taking a value chain approach, thinking about the actors, understanding the constraints that they currently face and looking for ways to overcome that, reduce costs and so on is a key factor. How well did milk it do on this level? Based on your understanding of the case? They encouraged the people to make bigger groups, yes. And overall, do you think they were successful enough on this front? Yes. If you were to go back to your country and recommend that, you know, I saw this scheme in India, I really think we should do it here in Indonesia. Yeah. You know, would you say let's replicate it exactly in the marketing practices here? Or would you say, well, they could have also done this? The marketing thing is a bit difficult to apply, but buying the inputs, it can work in Indonesia. OK. So you're pleased you think they did a good job there? Yeah. OK. Another question, someone from that table in the back, please. The first question, probably the what was the biggest constraint for the milk IP? I think in page 160, there was a mention about the challenge not addressed, where to get seeds and it came from the scarcity of fodder. So but there were discussions before about the imposition of technologies. But you see the problem here with the scarcity of fodder is more on branching, branching of problems, problem to problems. So that's what happened. But I think the problem here is the source of seed for improved source of fodder. So they needed to establish their own plantation or probably the source of their fodder. OK. Who else had that question? Who had the first question? I think that you ask yourself, there were two main challenges given to us in the case. One was the distance and the other one was the fodder. The focus here of the answer was on the fodder and branching down into it. Remember yesterday, we had a technique. Remember how it was called? Something else? Kind of looks like an animal that lives in the sea. Fishbone technique, because it looks like a fish. And what is the gist of that technique? Exactly, identifying the root cause. And how do we do that? What kind of a question specifically? Why, why, why, why, why, why? Asking five times why. And that's what you started doing. So fodder, why was the fodder an issue? Getting to the seeds. Why is there no good distribution of seeds? Now you're linking back to the private sector linkages again. Why are there not good enough private sector linkages? Why don't they see them as a market? Now you start seeing why it was a good idea to bring them together to aggregate the demand. So it's actually a very useful technique when we're trying to analyze these things. Why is this happening? Why isn't there a better solution? Why do I keep saying that? OK. Someone from this group, a question, please. Pick a question. Which one did you use thus? Is the IP only an issue? Is the MOLUS to increase bilateral communication? So the answer is written on page 161. This IP meeting should only be seen as an initial stimulus for increased bilateral communication between producers, development organization, and market institution. Anyone else dying to get into the discussion? OK, please go ahead. We answered number two. So development of the dairy sector was not among the key priorities of the public sector and other development actors. And yes, they have the intervention. So in improved feed and reading technologies, these were promoted by various institutions. But the problem was these were not widely adapted, as these were generally not been tailored to women's requirements and not considering the market linkages. Keep that in mind. That might come in handy before too long. OK. So armed with this knowledge, and remember, you now have a little bit of a mapping for your colleagues' insights on what, I'd like us to move a bit forward. I'd like you to think about the factors that you need to consider when you're designing an intervention for dairy farmers in Uttarakhand. So for instance, why does the distance inhibit the selling and marketing of milk? Or how is the livestock feed connected with production and marketing? And what is the role of women in the dairy farming? And what's their current compensation? And how can we do the math behind that? But most importantly, we covered a lot yesterday, right? It was a little bit of a speed death by PowerPoint. We covered a lot of concepts. And you have them all with you. Now when you look at a case, it's time to pull it all together. So you've just been hired as a consultant team to the Uttarakhand government to come and help design. Think about how would you handle communications, facilitation, documentation, power dynamics, yeah? All of these should inform the decisions that you take. What I'd like you to do is to come up with an answer to a very simple question. What would the ideal state or government response look like? So I'd like you in the tables, yeah? You can merge the two groups back together to design a public sector scheme to support the dairy industry in the Uttarakhand region. But if you prefer to use another region from your own country, that's perfectly fine as well, yeah? You can build on the milk it results as part of your case. So you already know the information is available to you. Now in addition to coming up with a plan of what you would propose, think about how you would sell it. How would you sell it to your own organization or to the government to hire you to promote the approach that you are proposing? You will have 25 minutes in your groups. And at the end of those 25 minutes, a representative from each table should be available to make a five-minute presentation. Back to the plenary. This is your assignment. Should you choose to accept it? This slide will not self-destruct, hopefully, in five seconds, but I will take it off the screen. So instead, I will give you handouts that have this in the previous slide, yeah? You'll eat yet once so that you can refer back to them as you work in the next 25 minutes to prepare your presentation. OK? Let me see by a quick show of hand who really wants to go first. Yes, please. So in fact, we'll only have time for two. So the early worms are the ones who get the word. Since we're from LATE, so we decided to select to focus on region eight. So what we're going to do first is we're going to have an overview of a general baseline survey. So within the region, we're going to select, we're going to go to the regional or provincial office agriculture. So we're going to select which of the municipalities, we're going to have a quick assessment meeting with Mao from different municipalities in order to identify which of the municipalities are we going to focus. Because we're going to cover everything given that we have constraints on our cost and our budget. So we have only to focus on new one. And then we do the outscale later. So we're going to focus first the pilot area. And then after selecting the site, after selecting a specific municipality, based on the preset criteria that we have, we're going to have a profiling of the municipality. So that is specific. So we're going to get the baseline information, such as socio-demographic profile, and then economic, so that includes household income, and then dairy and livestock industry. Because one of our considerations is to select the area which is a larger pasture area, and which are farmers that have an existing production of dairy. And then after that one, we're going to identify the geographical areas and the specific study sites, which could be in Barangay. So we call this in Barangay. And then we're going to identify which Barangay has the availability or where there is a pasture area and livestock. And then after that one, we're going to identify the industry key players or the actors after we have identified the beneficiaries with that baseline survey. So these industry players, these includes the actors within the stretch of the value chain. So this comprises of the farmers, of course, the government line agencies, the Department of Agriculture, and other agencies that could provide funding to provide additional support in our project. And then of course, since we have a lot of international NGOs in our area because of HAYAN, so we can tap them. Anyway, we have same objective to increase the socioeconomic capacity of the people there. And then also of course, the commercial producers, institutional buyers, and then the small-scale processors. And then of course, the feed industry because we did the roadmap as feeds. And then after that one, after identifying the actors, we are going to conduct a stakeholders meeting. So we are doing this one in order for all the industry players and the actor to have a view on what we are doing or what we will be doing. So we're going to discuss the objectives of the IP or innovation platform. And then with these stakeholders meeting, everyone will understand the agenda of each stakeholder. And then we could have exchange of ideas. Then after that one, we go on to have a small group meeting and this will be done in an iterative process. Now, so during the first meeting, we're going to present to the specific beneficiaries. And then with that, we can identify or we can have a view on the real situation and then we can identify the challenges they are facing and they identify the constraints. And from them, we can also ask them on what possible solutions that they have in mind. And then this one will be iterative such that we come up with a practical intervention. Yeah, that's all. I think I deserve a big round of applause. Very nice. And you chose to adapt this to your own context. And by the way, before we forget, so our scheme, we're going to follow the existing dispersal system that what we have now because we have a municipal agricultural officer here in Inupakan, which is, this is one of the pilot sites of Sharka. And we're going to integrate the IP approach. So utilizing the existing system. So this is not new to us while having the IP approach integrated into this scheme. You don't know it yet, but you've done a lot of work towards our next session already. So very, very good. So we have time for one more group. Yes, I think a hand came up here. Yes. So, and maybe it would be better if you don't mind taking my mic and standing here so everyone can see you. The good thing about our group is that most of, all of us actually are working for the government. So this is our proposal. Establishment of impact zones to improve the dairy industry in region two. So following the concept of clustering or we value the importance of social capital or collective action to be able to really bring about development among our dairy farmers, we will be establishing these impact zones. And these impact zones will be implemented at the municipal level, which will be, which will cover 20 households per municipality. And the impact zone basically serves as a convergence of technologies and services from production to marketing, covering the whole value chain. And another important concept here is the support system for the dairy farmers through a cooperative. And of course in partnership with public and private organizations. So one of the interventions here is basically the livestock entrustment. So we actually have one, our goal here is to really increase the income of the dairy farmers. And one of the technologies to entrust cross-bred carabao and based on our data, this can actually add additional milk production by actually four times, right? So that then gives from the usual milk production that is only 9,000 pesos. Through this technology, it can actually not only double or triple, but four times. So it gives a lot of income for the farmers. So that's going to be one of the major interventions for this initiative. And of course, all this initiative is anchored on addressing multi-cross cutting issues such as rural poverty, under-employment in the rural areas, malnutrition, and so on. That's all. Thank you very much. First, we'd like to have a round of applause here as well. Yes, there's a question. Yes, yes. Absolutely. This is the scheme we are proposed for the support of the dairy industry in the region. We divide the scheme into four aspects. The financial support, technology support, technical assistance, and information system. These supporting tools will support the agent in dairy industry system, dairy farmers, dairy industry, intermediaries, and consumer. And the stakeholder. And also in this scheme, we need support from the government, financial institution, NGO, extension agency, and private sector. In financial support, it's about financial support. We subsidize credit interest and then make the last rigid rules on lending credit. And then 15 or less farmers will be accorded to liability. And then another support is about technology support. We provide the fodder cutter which is suitable to operate by a woman and we also suggested the newly bred cow would have a higher productivity. And also we introduce the concentrated feed as alternative feed. In another support, we discuss about technical assistance. The first, we map the existing situation and then we identify the main issues of the community and also we provide suitable technological innovation and process approach. And the last one is about information system which spread the idea of the adoption, increase the communication process through vertical approach and horizontal approach. In vertical approach, there's a need to dialogue with the policy maker and people in the government, community keepers, NGOs, and other institution. In horizontal approach, a dialogue may be conducted among the beneficiaries. And the last one. Okay, this is the potential impact we could gain from implement this project. We can increase the income, increase the number of employment, improving communication within and among stakeholders and beneficiaries, strengthen the development of industry by optimizing the full chain of dairy product and the collaboration among other dairy producers within the district. And the last one is attract the new investment for make the more region again, development in agricultural sector. Thank you. That's all what I want to share with you all. Projector is being reconnected again. There's a few slides that I wanna run through with you regarding the milk it case. But given the three presentations that we have, an incident in the latest one, you had in mind the region in India, a region in Indonesia, or a hypothetical one. What did you have in mind? I think we also learned from the experience in Indonesia in the project of local economic development. And after we have a conceptual framework, we need supporting facilities to make the design implemented well. Okay. So as a bit of a spoiler, let me tell you in a couple of words what we'll be doing after the break. Yeah? After the break, and this is also food for thought as you go to the break, after the break, we will go from, we went yesterday from all theory. Yeah? This morning right now, we did a hybrid from theory into practice using the milk it case and its foundations. After the break, we'd like to work on real projects. So we'd like you to think of real projects where you would like to have the innovation platform approach use and put you in groups where you can work with other colleagues and with support from resource people to start sketching out how that would look like. Yeah? So as you go through in the lunch, in the break, think about do you want to, because that's my first question when we come back, who wants to lead a group? Who has an idea that they would like to flesh out further? So over the break, think whether this is something that you want to do and use this work as a basis for that. Okay, but can I have your attention for 10 more minutes so that we cover some other important aspects about the milk it and close that loop? First of all, we didn't talk much about the results. We had the very first slide. We said, Tulsidevi was like this before and now she's like this. But it was in very simplistic terms, right? It was in terms that before she couldn't make ends meet and now she can. Yeah? That might be a compelling story, but that's not strong enough evidence when you're trying to make a policy case for investment, whether it's in your government, whether it's with a development agency, an international donor, whatever the case may be. So some of the results that we should highlight, they're up on the screen here. So seeing numbers. So in this case, over 100 farmers earn between 600 and 6,000 Indian rupees more per month in sales. That's between $10 and $100 roughly. That's the kind of hard information that we'd like to see. Even if you're at a stage where you don't have it, you should make the estimation based on the best available information. Yeah? Where does that income go? In the milk it case, most of that income goes to women. What happens when you give women money? Arguably, we all go shopping, but they go shopping for food, school fees, you know, and other productive goods. What kind of a shopping are men renowned for? The sin goods, right? Several people, in this case, seven people, four women and three men are directly employed by milk. In milk collection, transportation. Over 100 women in their households are availing the use of the collection centers and so on and so forth. So there's the list of concrete tangible results and that's the kind of things that we need to then prop our case. We love the human stories, but we also need hard evidence to prop them up. Then the increased communication, sorry, the increased communication between the stakeholders. So producer representatives going back, IP meetings throughout the villages, looking at how it can effectively engage with other development-oriented smallholder producing to a structure. So the communication and the structures, these are themes that run throughout. So again, think about them, think what you can pull from that and how you can use that in your work. I didn't hear anyone say anything about a most significant change example to enhance the impact stories. Yesterday, you said you really found that useful. Did you pick up on any in this case? Quickly, without looking at the case again. There are two that I'm looking for. So one was, there's a quote in the case from Devki Deki, Devki Devi, who said, now I earn more than 1500 rupees per month through transfer of milk and this income is helping me get nutritious foods for my kids and builds my confidence. What a wonderful quote. More income, more confidence, gender employment. That's exactly the things that we should capitalize on. If you didn't even have to ask for it, it was in the case waiting for you. Another example, there is a box about Mahesh Tiwari in a box wrapped in a ribbon for you. So Mahesh wasn't supposed to be part of the group, but joined anyway and now is through his involvement making twice what he made before in the factory in Delhi and he can stay closer to his family and all the rest of it. Wonderful stories which are just there for the taking in the case waiting for you. When you're thinking about your cases, don't forget that we want the stories, we want the data and then we want its most significant change. It helps bring it all together. Now, I'd like to quickly go over a few of the factors that contributed to the impact. So there are three that I'll cover here. The first is the desire of the smallholder producers to generate, so there was a real demand for this. Three, they approached four clusters and three really wanted to go ahead. One cluster decided not to go ahead. This is kind of a ground truth thing that's very helpful. If you come up with the ideas and you see that the clusters don't want it, stand back, don't push it. But if you see in this case three out of four, four out of five people want to move forward, that's a good indicator that you'll be able to work with these communities because they truly wanted. Two is the supportive institutional landscape. We can't underestimate how important this is. Innovation platforms need the support of institutions and other stakeholders. This include government bodies to share technologies, intervention, resources, whatever comes up from the IP. In this particular case, we also have a clear indication that financial institutions play a big role. We have clear example how this was in the case. This is likely to hold. It doesn't have to hold. They can have interventions where financial constraints is not part of it, but by and large, having financial aspects looked at is wise because this is likely to hold in many other scenarios as well. So thinking about how you can get the right financial flows to enable the risk taking, to enable the entrepreneurial activity to actually take place. If it involves capital expenditure and so on and so forth, that's a very key part of it. So in your institutional landscape, like you already presented, please keep it in mind. And finally, introduction of a complementary technology. So in this case, the crossbred cows enabled a huge boost in productivity. And this really showcases how beneficial it can be when an active stakeholder institution introduces the technologies, input and services bundled together. And that's really something where the IP can facilitate because it's unlikely that all of these different stakeholders are already having a platform where they can come together and engage on this. So two final take-homes. One is that content matters. The right intervention, it's not any intervention. It's not come together and talk about the weather. The content matters. So in this particular case, there was a real issue around the feeds and simple interventions like concentrates, feeding, et cetera, were so effective and rapidly so. So if you find the right content for the intervention, you can get a lot of quick wins. And those quick wins enable you to take the whole system forward. But the second take-home is that process matters. Almost as much as the content. So we see that the changes varied between the platforms. So we shouldn't come with a one-size-fits-all. The process of letting the platforms decide what was right for them in any context and what to prioritize is very important. It's important to support this through properly documenting the decisions, how they were taken and so on. This can help, as we said yesterday when we discussed reflexive monitoring. Both the groups themselves, but also other groups and also yourself when you're trying to make the case to others. And finally, the long-term success of innovation platforms will not be down to any one specific innovation, yeah? So if we go back to the Milkit platforms five years from now they will not be presenting only the feed, yeah? There'll be a whole set of institutional innovations that have emerged and not just one product innovation. So very important to keep the process in mind even though you do need a entry point which needs to be specific. Okay, in the interest of time I'll stop here. Let's take our break and let's meet back in 12 minutes if we can so that we can have good time to go through the next session, okay? Great, thanks.