 from that. But that can be an understatement. But to have an understanding the right perspective, I think true to his name of Raja Gopal, he's Raja of knowledge and whatever interaction we have had off the screen and on the screen. It has always been that you feel that you should know what he has known. Therefore, when we took the session on today's chapter two, sources, recruitment, board and employment, I thought that at the end of the session, we would like to understand what are the sources from which one can gain knowledge? What are the rules in life where we can gain forward ourselves? What can be more from which we can gain different knowledge not only on law, but beyond law, which is synonymous to the YouTube channel of Beyond Law, CLC. And then do we get any equal opportunity into the profession or we have to march ourselves and create our own stamp within these fields? These are the few four or five questions we should take at the end of the session. And on a weekend to have knowledge from Mr. P. S. Raja Gopal, who's taking this entire endeavor to simplifying the law, there couldn't be a better way to understand that to on a Friday. Fridays they say, even on the market, they say that they give the best prize on the Friday because people have more money and they can spend more. But here we are detaining the people, don't spend more, but have knowledge from a person who can actually share the knowledge. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Lucas. I am only trying to improve the practice of service law so that the working class, I would like to classify all employees as working class. According to me, the definition in labour law is too restricted. Every wage earner or every salary earner is a worker. As Lawship Justice Krishna here put it once in a public speech in Bangalore. Every one of us are workers. We are law workers. Then there may be engineering workers, there may be medical workers. All of us are workers. Therefore, the endeavor of service law is to make the working conditions and workers' lives better. Last time I was speaking on sources of law, sources of service law. Today we'll be speaking about sources of recruitment because recruitment is the first step before the employer-employer relationship is made. There was a time when source of recruitment was restricted to father-in-law's acquaintances or his family members or your uncle's children. In fact, one of the chief ministers went on to say, do you expect me to appoint the son-in-law of Bansilaw when my son-in-law is available? But when we are talking about employment in government and governmental sectors, luckily for us the system is more orderly and the freedom which either government or state sector enjoys in the matter of recruitment is limited by constitution, is limited by rules and is limited by constitutional values. Now what are the sources from which we can enlist people to serve the state or its instrumentalities? Before we go to the sources, first and the first step we should understand that recruitment is only the first step and it is not synonymous with the word appointment. It is famously said, while every appointment is preceded by a recruitment, every recruitment need not be followed by an appointment or to pretty differently while appointment follows recruitment. Recruitment does not always culminate in appointment because the two are distinct. Recruitment simply means enlistment. Enlistment of what? Enlistment of a candidate who is found eligible to be appointed. Here again, eligibility should not be confused as a single concept. There is eligibility to apply and then eligibility to be appointed. Eligibility to apply will allow you to enter the recruitment process. At the end of the recruitment, if you come out successful, you will be declared as eligible to be appointed. Now let us see what are the, what is the first precondition for recruitment? Recruitment can only be to a post. If there is no post, there can be no recruitment. Post need not always be a permanent post. Even if it is a temporary post, there can be recruitment and there has to be recruitment. That is because constitution says our constitutional values dictate that even a temporary appointment cannot be made without complying with constitutional requirements. It is said in PK Rajamma that there can be a temporary employee against a permanent post and there can be a permanent employee against a temporary post. Therefore, nature of appointment and duration of the post are two independent concepts. But suffice to understand that there must be a post before a recruitment could be initiated. If there is no post, there can be no recruitment. The post means an appointment, a job, office or employment. There must be a position which is vacant, which we call as vacant post before the recruitment process is initiated. Now what are the modes? In a huge organization or even in a smaller organization. Suppose you have to choose people to occupy let me say post of general manager or deputy general manager or manager. First source that would be available to the empire would be internal. That internal source is the already existing staff. Then there is an external source. What is an external source? External source is open market. Don't take objection to the word market because open market why I am saying using that phrase is unemployed constitute a huge base of qualified human resources from which we can draw. Therefore, I use the word market in a larger sense where goods, services and personnel of different caliber, different qualifications, different acumen are available and you draw on those resources by way of direct. Therefore, broadly there are two sources. One is internal, another is external. Of course, these days we also have campus recruitment, but campus recruitment is unknown to the constitutional values because it is not that you give opportunity to students of a one college and ignore students of other college. Therefore, if we have to go by the concept of equality before law as initiated by article 14 and equal opportunity in public employment as propounded in article 16-1, market the campus recruitment is no no no in so far as public employment is good. Within these two sources, one is external and another internal, there are further classification. When an external candidate who is not in the organization, he tries to enter your organization by applying for a direct and the internal candidate normally moves up by way of promotion. Can it be said that internal candidates are excluded from competing in direct recruitment? There cannot be an exclusion of any qualified candidate even if he is already in your service from the direct recruitment. At best, you can say that for a candidate who is already in service, if he has to apply, he may have to seek permission of the employer or he will have to route his application through proper chance. Beyond that, his right to compete in direct recruitment cannot be denied altogether. Of course, there can be some restrictions like which are reasonable restrictions. In one case, pertaining to stenographers in the high court had a very, very, very strange experience. Some stenographers of the high court, they wanted to apply for direct recruitment of stenographers post in the secretariat service of the state. Since they were already employed in the high court, their applications required to be looked at through the high court registry. When they made an application, forwarding of that application was denied on the ground that there is shortage of stenographers in the high court. And that was upheld by the division bench of our high court and the selfie there again was dismissed. And the judges concentrating the bench, they said, let's go for even in Supreme Court, we are facing a shortage of stenographers. Therefore, denial of opportunity for them is proper. But as a constitutional principle, the persons who are already in employment, if they want to compete for a higher post within the organization through direct recruitment, that opportunity cannot be denied. Then again, there is another line of progress by way of direct recruitment for internal employees. In some of the organizations at least we will find, in some of the departments of the government also will find that a certain percentage of direct recruitment quota is reserved for internal candidates. And it is called as direct recruitment quota for in-service candidates. Therefore, in direct recruitment, those tryptocensur, we understand it as external source. Internal resources also can participate. Then there is out of the external resources. It is not that always direct recruitment among candidates. There could be deputation. Deputation is again of two types. Say under the same employer, just like at transfer, a person can be deputed. That type of deputation is not preceded by any selection. Therefore, they are the question of recruitment as models. But there are, there are posts, there are cadres, particularly the higher levels of the organization, where deputation, appointment by deputation for a fixed tenure is the most preferred mode. These days, if you see any advertisement issued by the central government for the higher positions, like director of power research institute or director of an educational institution owned by a central government, the mode of appointment would be direct appointment, which can be from open market or on deputation. Then it follows the candidates seeking appointment by deputation has to undergo this same process of selection as an open market candidate to dendro. But only difference is if it is by from open market, it will be till superannuation or it will be for a longer tenure. But if it is appointment by deputation, then it will be for a fixed tenure. Recently, you must have seen a judgment in the law reports, that is, Union of India v. N. Murugesh, that was the case of appointment in the post of director of central power research institution, where it was, he was already an employee in some institution. And he thought when he applied that he is applying through director of power, therefore in the new institution, where he joins, he can work till retirement. But a condition was imposed in the order of appointment, that it is a tenure appointment of five years. And at the end of five years, he has to go back to his current position. Such a condition was adopted by the Supreme Court in the Murugesh Institute. Now, the sources should not be therefore confused with modes. There can be an internal source for direct appointment. There can be an external source for deputation. And the internal, the external candidates, they can be also laterally conducted at higher levels of an institute. Now, the modes are different and sources are different. Though in some of the judgments of the Supreme Court, you would see the mode and the source being used as interchangeable. There are any number of judgments which are the Supreme Court will say, sources of recruitment are direct recruitment, promotion, deportation, transfer. And transfer within the organization is a very peculiar source of recruitment. Generally, transfer is a lateral movement. A junior engineer will move to another post in the category of junior engineer. Assistant engineer will move to another post in the category of assistant engineer. But a very strange rule or peculiar rule is found in almost all the state service rules. Particularly in Karnataka also it is there. That is, a diploma holder enters service as junior engineer. On his acquiring BE degree, he moves to the higher post of assistant engineer and it is treated as entry by director. Therefore, we should not confuse between source and mode. They are quite different. Then we go to a very difficult question. That is, normally we say that rules are supreme. That is, when there is a rule or a regulation, governing service conditions, governing conditions of recruitment, they have to be followed. A question arose before the Supreme Court. First regarding government service. Suppose a department is, say for example, now it has become a fashion all over the country. To have a department called a skilled development department. Of course, the government itself does not know even today whether it is a program or whether it is a permanent department. When a department or when a service is created for the first time, the question is whether the employer is not authorized to make an appointment unless the rules are free or take the case of a road transport corporation. All these state road transport corporations were established under the provisions of Road Transport Corporation Act. The question in the Supreme Court, we were in Supreme Court in BN Nagaraj and Boston. Yes, state service is firm, but no recruitment rule is made. Whether the government is incompetent to make recruitment until the rule is framed under Article 309. Now Article 309 of the Constitution, in this age of determination of recruitment rule has also conditions of service. By way of a rule made either by the legislator or by the executive in the name of the governor under clause of the Article 309. The issue that I said was look here is the government. Article 309 compels it to make a rule and recruitment is being made without making a rule. The answer given by the Supreme Court is very, very pragmatic and it solves the real issue that it takes cognizance of the ground reality that after formation of a service, after creation of a service, there may be a time lag between making up the rule and need to fill up their post. Need to fill up a post will be immediate whereas making up the rule requires a time. There was Supreme Court answer to the question saying that if there is no rule made under Article 309, the executive power under Article 162 is available to the state. Therefore, in the absence of a rule, the state government can make an executive order laying down the qualifications for the post, scale of pay, number of posts, method of recruitment and in terms of that executive order, the process of recruitment can go on and it can culminate in appointment of the Supreme Court. But the Supreme Court also entered a case. If there is no rule, you can constitute a service and make recruitment of the service by executive order at the same time. If there is a rule, executive order cannot be made. Therefore, the constitution, the constitution gives enormous flexibility to meet the real urgent needs of the situation. But at the same time, it also says whether you do it by executive order or by a rule under Article 309, the process and the procedure must satisfy the requirements of Article 14, Article 15, Article 16 and then the special needs of the depressed classes or backward classes as always changed by the Article 235 of the constitution and therefore, all these will have to be satisfied by any executive order. In respect of the service under statutory corporations, take for example, Article 25 of the Road Transport Corporations Act, envisages, determination of recruitment rules, service conditions, modes of recruitment, everything by a regulation made under Section 45. Likewise, banking companies acquisition and transfer of money to take exact envisages, making of a regulations under Section 19 of the or 19 of the banking companies acquisition and transfer of money to take exact. The question before the Supreme Court was that, the regulations insist that the service conditions and rules of recruitment are determined by regulations. Rather, in the absence of regulation, the corporation cannot make any recruitment at all. Division bench of Karnataka High Court had held that no such recruitment can be made or no such recruitment is possible unless regulations are made. Supreme Court said that when a corporation is formed, it has to function. Therefore, it becomes necessary to make appointments and it is inherent power of the management because when management is listed in a board, management includes making of appointments and see that the corporation function. The corporation is functioning is not stifled. Therefore, in the famous judgment that is in the Gundopanth Gundacha, the Supreme Court said that state road transport corporation can make recruitment and appointment even in the absence of a regulation. Therefore, to sum up on this aspect, while rule or regulation is not undesirable and it is very, very desirable and necessary to be made. In the absence of regulation or rule, the executive order in the respect of the governments or administrative instructions in respect of other bodies which are treated as state under article 12, it can be made. Now, we have been seeing the in various organizations, there is always a clamor for promotions and it is desirable also because unless a person has, unless an employee has something to look forward to, productivity will be stifled. There would not be any incentive to work except receiving salary that one at times. In the matter of promotion also because that is rememberable thing while inducting employees into the organization that is newly formed by a department that is created, whether it may be, why it may be emergent. In respect of consideration of cases for promotion, there will be sufficient time available to the government or the employer to make a rule before embarking on promotions. The question often arises that is take, there is a rule that 50 percent of the course in the cadillacs also shall be filled by a promotion. There is no causes of promotion laid down in the book. The inadequacy in the rule is noticed, but when that inadequacy is noticed, is it compulsory for the employer to wait till that inadequacy is made up in the rule or whether gaps or inadequacies in the rule can be filled by administrative instructions. This question was answered by the Supreme Court in Santalam Sharma. Where is the Supreme Court said? Even in the absence of the rule, there can be promotion subject to two conditions. First condition is that every eligible employee must be considered for promotion. What is meant by every eligible employee? It only means that eligibility condition must be first determined either by the rule or in the absence of the rule by administrative instruction. And the absence of these details was treated by the Supreme Court as a gap in the rule and it made the statement that while executive instructions can fill gaps in the rules and supplement the rule, it cannot supplement the rule. Therefore, whether it is direct recruitment, whether it is a promotion, the employer is always entitled to make the recruitment. If there are rules in accordance with the rule, if there are no rules in accordance with administrative instruction which satisfy the constitutional norms, the next issue that could arise in the matter of the recruitment is, as I was telling in the beginning, there are various modes by which recruitment can be made. Promotion is there, transfer is there, deputation is there and contract appointment is there, temporary appointment is there, permanent appointment is there. All these options are available. Now, if the rules stipulate that this post shall be filled up by promotion, these many posts shall be filled up by deputation, that rule has to be filled up. Let us take a case where rule does not stipulate what should be the method of recruitment or mode of recruitment. Again, this is also a possibility and a reality in number of cases. Same in most of the public sector organizations. Qualifications are laid down for the post of director or head of the department. But method of recruitment is not stipulated. There may be cases where it stipulates it shall be filled by promotion, failing which by direct recruitment, failing which by deputation. There the rule would have laid down the steps to be taken for filling up the post. First you should try the route of promotion. When that is not available, then you can go to the route of direct recruitment. If that is also not possible or for some, if it is also not possible, then deputation and all that. If there is no rule as to the manner or method mode by which the post is to be filled up and if there is a post, it is absolute discussion of the employer to choose whichever mode the employer desires. In Nilancheb-Bhushan Basu, this question was answered by the Supreme Court. When there is no mode of recruitment stipulated by the recruitment court, it is the absolute discussion of the employer to choose the mode which he feels will be most appropriate for the set post and in the set circumstances. It also made a statement which is very instructive. It said, sometimes the posts of this nature may be well advised to be filled by deputation, what it meant to us. If you permanently promote a person to that post, you are stuck with his inefficiency or efficiency or lack of integrity or presence of integrity for rest of his life. Whereas if you fill that post by deputation, you can have the opportunity of repatriating him to the parent body at the end of the tenure of deputation. Now, when I am saying equality of opportunity, that is Article 14 and Article 16, and when I say that every eligible employee has to be given, every eligible candidate has to be given opportunity, that is on the ambil of equality of opportunity in the matter of supply. There was a time, there was a time when the employer would write to the employment exchange to sponsor the names. Employment exchange would have maintained the list of persons holding postgraduate degree, persons who are holding a graduate degree in medicine, like that the list of persons holding a degree in engineering. And the employment exchange to sponsor the candidates according to senior. That list, get that list of sponsored candidates, then the employer would select some amongst those candidates sponsored, whoever is the best according to him, and select him for the post for apply. This was going on for quite a number of years or quite number of decades also. I can tell from my own personal example, in the year 1971, when I did my post graduation, I did not make any application to be appointed in any government policy. I was just required to register in the concerned employment exchange. Then according to the seniority of the candidate, whenever indent comes from the employer, the employment exchange will sponsor the list. On that basis, they introduce or whatever selection process they are invited to, it goes on. This method of getting candidates from employment exchange only was reversed or was held illegal in the N. Hargo Falls case by the Supreme Court. Subsequently, it might very clear in a subsequent case of, that is, KBN visualization law, reference to KBN visualization law you find in a number of dates. KBN visualization law said that some people may not register the number of registered themselves in the employment exchange. For some people, because of their location, it might not have been possible to register in employment exchange. If we are talking of equal opportunity in the matter of public employment, you will have to issue advertisement in widely circulated papers, so that all eligible candidates will come to know of it and will have an opportunity to apply. Applying this visualization law, any number of appointments which had been made on the basis of earlier practices of inviting sponsored candidates from the employment exchange have been on it. And that appears to be the true, that in tune with true concept of equal opportunity in public employment, because why this recruitment process takes place? Why the employer cannot call anybody it wants and place, give him a chair? There are two reasons why that cannot be done. One is the constitutional requirement of equal opportunity. Even without the constitution, another requirement is that every enterprise should get the best candidate available for the job. And how do we get the best candidate? Best candidate is lay down the norm, issue an advertisement. Then every willing candidate will apply. From amongst them, you choose the best. Therefore, the Supreme Court very clearly said, explaining all these things that mere click considering candidates sponsored by employment exchange will be unconstrained and advertisement will have to be issued. Then there is another aspect of the recruitment, namely the advertisement no doubt will have to be issued. And advertisement should contain what are the processes you are following, whether there will be interview, whether there will be written test, whether there will be written examination followed by interview. And sometimes in the back, we had also for a very short while the concept of group discussion. And group discussion, even though it may be there, sometimes I don't say it will not be there, it may be there. Then you should also stipulate what is the age limit. No minor can be appointed. Though my father joined service as a minor, then nobody beyond a particular age can be appointed. Then what are the educational qualifications for the post? Then what are the professional experiences for the post? All these things will have to be made known in the advertisement. And the date up to which the applications can be made should also be issued. And more important, the advertisement should also stipulate when it fixes the qualifications, say age. It should also stipulate the reference date with in relation to which your age eligibility or your educational qualification and eligibility will be considered. Sometimes it may so happen that the advertisement does not contain the date of fulfillment of the qualifications. It may simply say holder of a PhD degree in the consent, PhD in consent subject with good academic record. That's all the stipulation. It doesn't say what is good academic record. It doesn't say PhD means what, PhD on what date. Then there were very ingenious professors, ingenious employers who would not hold the selection committee meeting until their candidates thesis for PhD is approved. And they would very conveniently say, today the committee is meeting on that day he fulfills the qualifications. Therefore, since on the date of selection he is qualified, we are selecting it. This was also answered with the Supreme Court in Rekha Chathur with this case. It said, fairness is that advertisement should disclose the date in relation to which or with reference to which eligibility is also tied. There may be cases where the where the requirement modification does not stipulate. In such case the safest course is to take the last date for submission of the applications as the date for which with the in relation to which your eligibility is questioned. It is determined. It also said and this is more important. Date of selection is always uncertain. You can manipulate the date of selection in such a manner that you can select a person of your choice not of the requirement. Therefore, there must be clarity and in case of accidental omission to mention the date, it should be the last date of submission of the applications. Then there is another important aspect when we are talking about advertisement. Normally the rule is that the employer is not to deviate from the terms advertisement. That is what was said in Vedanta look there also. That when once you issue a recruitment modification, you have to complete the recruitment modification in accordance with the terms of application. There is an exception. Exception which is very interesting to know was laid down because of an error committed in recruitment to the posts of district judges in state of Uttar Pradesh. The recruitment notification while stating as to who are eligible for age in the accession had included in the clause, included a clause which was not entitled for age in the accession after the recruitment. The question before the Supreme Court was that. Now under the advertisement, this clause is entitled for age in the accession. Under the recruitment rule, they are not eligible for age in the accession. What should be done in such a situation? Supreme Court said that advertisement, error in advertisement does not come for any right on any account. If advertisement is at variance with the recruitment rule, it is the recruitment rule that would prevail and not the advertisement. At best in such a case, that is not there in the judgment, but this is my addition. In such a case at best, the candidate who has been wrongly made to apply and wrongly made to go for interview and had an expectation that he would be appointed but his tentative is rejected. He may be entitled for some damages, but we know what would be the answer of the courts when we claim damages against the State Court. And many of the courts would say, what can be done, you are not eligible under the rule. Therefore, be happy that you got experience by writing written examinations. There is the one more aspect is in respect of recruitment is that suppose a person is wrongly appointed, wrongly selected and wrongly appointed and it later on comes to, it later on transpires that he was not qualified and there was no vacant. What could happen? He has to vacate. His services can be terminated without any compliance with natural resources. The another important aspect in the recruitment jurisprudence is the talk of equality of opportunity and equality before law. I also said that there must be a vacant post before you can make recruitment. When you are initiating a recruitment, can you initiate recruitment process only for the post existing or also to the post which you anticipate to arise in the immediate future or for future vacancies also? Another question that would arise in this really connection is whether you can appoint or you can select more number of candidates than you have worked. First part of the question is what vacancies you can notify existing, anticipated, future. Second part of the question is how many people you can select? Can you select more than the numbers advertised? Now when you advertise, you cannot take your next 10 years anticipated vacancies and advertise today because it will not be in your interest although it has a employer's interest since next year more notorious candidates may be available in the market or education system itself might have improved and more talented candidates also will be available and from the point of view of the candidate seeking recruitment, seeking to participate in recruitment, if after five years a vacant say arises and a person is qualified for that, he cannot be told no sorry beta we have recruited for this post five years ago therefore no vacancies. Therefore the law on this point is the recruitment process can start only in respect of existing vacancies and anticipated vacancies and not for future vacancies anticipated and future they may look alike but it is not difficult to make out the difference between anticipated means like there is in the trade union side there is one phrase in contemplation of trade dispute that is a decision or frame of mind the in the mind it must have been such is that trade dispute has arrived some or it is likely to arise in the immediate future that is contemplation that is also the meaning of the word anticipation when it comes to the future means quote take the list of employees mark their retirement dates and the future after five years from vacancy a person will rise in physics department therefore I will advertise today that is not to mention and second is any selection made in excess of the notified vacancies is bad in life. Therefore these two conditions that is the vacancy must be immediately existing or anticipated and then no selection for more number of vacancies than they are. Of course some rules stipulate that certain percentage of advertised vacancies you can say as additional list or reserve list but that is also intended only to fill up the advertised reports and not additional posts and additional posts more than what is advertised of course today I have not been able to cover at least some of the aspects like classification processes weightages consultations etc and including the reservation I intend taking the preservation and then separately and then this classification processes weightages these are all aspects of transparency in the recruitment process and safeguards in the recruitment process again established I think that would form a separate chapter altogether and now it is time to have questions from the participants instead of my continuing with my monologue or or whatever you call because where are you sometimes you have to be in an oblivion and sometimes you are so much mesmerized that you forget to unmute also but this is by Khati Sharma what is the scope of judicial review in so far as challenge to eligibility conditions is concerned but I can just tell one example unless the qualifications prescribed are outrageously illogical it is for the employer to fix the qualifications it is not for me to say the let us say the post is advertised of Hindi teacher what qualification Hindi language or some some other language also in addition to Hindi as to the prescribed it is for the employer only case I can envisage where court can interfere with the qualifications is suppose knowledge of Bharatanatam or Kathakali is made compulsory for a Hindi teacher then it is outrageous only in such cases of outrageous defiance of logic the courts can interfere otherwise it is for the employer to determine what should be the eligibility conditions generally the courts would apply a higher threshold limit for interfering with fix the qualifications by the employer for example only one thing one constitutional judgment I can say in Thirilokinath Kosa diploma holders were made eligible till then diploma holders were treated as being eligible supreme court said neither history nor the desire or aspiration of a person can make us interfere with the qualifications stipulated it is for the employer to stipulate so there are any number of cases even in respect of promotion the classification based on educational qualifications was offered classic case is Roopchand Adlaka where Lordship Kashi's amendment that today as he involves he said any classification will result in discrimination and approach should be not to go in search of classification to the extent that equality is reduced to a rope of sight after having said so he applied the classification of diploma holders and graduated in three years and no relief was granted to the persons who questioned it on qualifications the role of the court is very very limited next question is debated in the oral interview oral interviews oral interviews I have not touched today because weight ages processes consultations classification that forms a separate chapter I can just give a we can say that they can watch the next webinar say what is the next episode sir like in the serial they say because weightage for senior and for interview and the bias in the question of in the matter of interview these are it is better I deal with that that aspect separately therefore I have noted which are the parts which are not covered in the recruitment classification based on qualification recruitment processes what is the best method to test this suitability and in testing the suitability what is the weightage and then what is the role of consultation and then safeguards again is abuse of processes this aspect of the recruitment it will itself take about an hour so it is better we keep it aside for the next session what are the grounds on which necklace can be challenged these are the they are so wider it is just like asking what the rules can be changed midway as a whether the rules and your promotional avenues are being narrowed down what is the scope of interference in such like matters see in so far as as promotional opportunities are concerned there have been some broad philosophical statements made with the Supreme Court's pattern for KGS but in CSIR versus KGS but Supreme Court said a person is recruited for a career and not for a job therefore there must be reasonable promotional opportunities this was the philosophical statement made but employers came out came out with a novel scheme that is stagnation movements therefore how small are the inadequacy of the promotional opportunities the threshold at which the courts can interfere is very very unclear if we take say at the level of at the top that is at the general manager team every organizer he will have to follow a paradigmic paradigmic structure therefore naturally the promotional opportunities there if you go and complain that there are no promotional opportunities courts may not interfere but take the case of a lower level cadres like second division club or first division assistant there is there the general approach of the courts has been a person should have at least three promotions in his career stagnation movement is there apart from stagnation minimum three promotions is what is expected to make the legitimate expectations of an employee in a career of 25 to 30 years the interference of the court in directing redoing of the organization structure or redoing of the method of recruitment are very rare and I personally I have not seen any such case they may perceive the employer the force of hearing saying that look they are all your employees they have been working for you for the last 15 years 20 years without any promotion can you not find a way so that performance of your organization there the court's role is persuasive and not determined determination is very difficult because ultimately administrator knows what are the problems he has and what solutions he envisages to meet those problems therefore the promotional opportunities only one case I remember that is I think mudras metro polyton some water supply corporation or something where it said when it came to diploma engineers diploma holders that classification and the basis of education qualification is valid but the classification become invalid if it reduces the chances of promotion pre-embrace or just a teasing illusion and that is one of the fundamentals of service law is that chances of promotion is not a condition of service if you get your chance consideration for promotion in accordance with article 16 is your condition of service therefore for lack of promotional opportunity it is difficult to pursue a constitutional court to pronounce it is left to the wisdom of the empire yes sir while we're talking the last question we will be taking then the between the mode of recruitment and sources of recruitment yes see mode of recruitment is the method that is whether it is direct or whether it is promotion whether it is deportation these are the modes of recruitment sources of recruitment is where from you get the candidates for each of these modes source is the pool from which you get candidates pool is the source and method is the mode there can be that is why I said now there can be internal candidates for direct there can be external manager external candidates for deportation and but for promotion there can be no external candidates it can be called as a lateral entry at the with the government of india is trying to have at the secretary at level but without much success because whenever the secretaries force have been advertised to be filled out contract means for a period of five years the response has not been as per the expectations questions and now as they say that be small to the heat three four questions like you said there are lack of opportunities that there are lack of opportunities but from where do you make that lack of opportunities into opportunities so that you can earn into lax lax is not a big sum now for the advocates I think now campus recruitment of advocates okay in general then it was the opportunities whatever we may say that you have to create opportunities from that ultimately it comes from the confidence that the litigating public develop in you how do you infuse or generate such confidence in the minds of the litigating one is first thing is visibility visibility not I'm not saying in TV or webinar visibility in your office and visibility import functionally the client must know or a would be client or an intending client should know if I go to because office between 4 p.m to 6 p.m or even 6 p.m to 8 p.m or it may be even between 7 p.m to 9 a.m he will definitely be available that is the punctuality and visibility second thing is visibility in the court visibility in the court is of course when your matter is listed you have to be visible and you should also be ardent but even when your matter is not listed you should be visible in the court because you will be learning a lot and these days the persons who intend to litigate or who are anticipating to litigate they also go to court and study who is there always in the court who is there who will stand up without demand when his case is called this is the this is the second that is visibility and punctuality second aspect is develop enormous faces because when a client comes we tend to talk more we should not we should talk more in the court with the client we should be a good listener hear all these problems hear him out then ask it yes we have this grievance is there a basis for every grievance in law what is the law law is the rule governing the issue or if there is no rule general principles governing the issue and then you give your honest assessment as to how to improve his case or whether his case is hopelessly bad or with some creative exercise creative exercise means don't laugh it has two aspects creative exercise is creative thinking second is creating a cause of action because a good advocate is one who creates a cause of action where none appears because without a cause of action you cannot go to court therefore certain amount of creativity creative thinking is one aspect and find ways to make out a modicum of cause of action after having done this then you start talking don't ask avoid why I am saying is all this is he is master of facts he is the person who is agonized he is the person who comes for a relief you cannot try to get him a relief which he does not want or you cannot assure him a relief which law does not permit you therefore hear him out fully even if you ultimately say that you have no case while going out of your chambers he must be satisfied that he really has no case because human mind assumes that always yes I have been wrong if according to you and according to law and according to the rules he has been wrong assure him that you will be right if in law you don't see a wrong to tell him that you may be dissatisfied but you cannot be an accurate person in fact in the initial stages of my career I became more popular by denying the cases giving his heart to the very honest opinions people who are telling that when you go to Rajivapal he refuses most of the cases and they were threatening that you may lose the practice but I never lost because it is this honest state which built up my practice there may be persons who have other ways to build up the practice but this is the way I built up the practice this is the way I created opportunities I can only speak from my experience everybody will have his own way of creating opportunities but these are the three essential things visibility and punctuality and thorough reading of the problem and not giving unreasonable assurances to be litigant like you were saying that you have to do the extra cases so it is just I am just reminded that if you give a stone to someone and who's a good sculptor he will carve out the best things and they will bring the best things so how do you chisel out the facts and law for the bench vice is not very I am saying just like a sculptor you give a stone he will chisel it out and make it a good sculptor and people they appreciate it same way once they are raw facts how do you break an audio because so there's some internet yeah there is some internet issue why but I have understood your question how do you turn into a sculptor same way how do you take the facts and make it do a good law and case for for doing that is your question if I may rephrase it how do you formulate a case of the basis of the facts go like the agreement doubt a link the facts without telling a lie is the basis for that you should read the law assimilate it and then say think what should be the focus in presentation so that in law I make out a case that his grievance is justified that is the that is the basis of the making out a brief after getting the facts from the little from the agreement you have to cipher out the legal grounds on which his grievance can be projected that is entirely your reading and I would advise younger kids that even if they have to take two or three days for this thought process let them take I have made it a habit if anybody wants to come for even a consultation at this age and stage also if possible give the file to me 48 hours in a case if not possible and a matter of grave urgency at least send the file to me in the morning allow me tell time till the evening so that this is I am speaking of discussing a brief already prepared by a lot because we have to understand the fact we have to cipher out the law that could and the the legal provisions or the constitutional interpretations under which we can make an arguable case for the literary I do not say winnable case I say arguable case the this is how we sculpted into a presentable case I do not say absolutely winning case because what is the data you are filing the case under the data on which it comes for hearing so many changes might have taken place in interpretations as I was telling you about research of that kb and research of that once it was the employment exchange was thought to be correct then the explosion of you cannot proceed on the basis of employment exchange without advertisement then we can the law take from today's session only what modes do you suggest to the people that they should it's a into you that is it a good library good knowledge or good presence how do you say that a lawyer can make his presence fit his presence felt he is there now what has happened with these days though I would rate as the most essential requirement a good library these days library is not a problem many online large adults are available only thing is people like me cannot read on them I would still prefer to have a black and white library say my colleague Jayan or your junior colleague they may feel that having books is a waste of space they may feel that yes what is the problem I circuit on in whatever way you do whether you have a physical library or an electronic library use the library don't abuse the library using the library as I told you somewhere in a in one of my earlier sessions is reading the general abusing the library is reading the headline therefore knowledge is power therefore reading gives you that power in any discussion after all in any court discussion also whether you are well read or not is not difficult to make up but whether it is effective or not it is another if you are well read you can be effective is my belief and beliefs are always yes I believe it to be true it may not be true there is a knowledge and belief for two different things where anybody making an advert will know what is the difference between knowledge and beliefs but you have to read in the normal course they say if keeping books was good there are any number of cases it's one that what difficulty with these advocates is which I also am not free for this we read a book only when it is needed and when the need would arise when the case comes but at least you must have read this much that when the case comes you should know which book to read to that extent at least you read you whether case or no case that's all I can say because nobody can say that I have read everything one lifetime is not sufficient but at least we should have read this much say yes this is the issue for solution I may perhaps refer to this we need not have read it fully but at least our knowledge should be sufficient to guide us to the for correct book or resource or reference whatever you say that it's not necessary you should know the law but you should know how to find the law so on that no that is correct let's get it more crisp and to the point broad principles we should know because we should not be searching a principle which we would never find and this is something that we develop by practice that is why I said whether you have a case or not you go and sit in the corner because they will be getting experience from other skills it is just on the parting note we will say they say that your father will never tell you how to shave your beard it is only take you take your pen and make you teach so you just have to absorb and absorb that is the two two mantras for the being a successful lawyer that's what people tell us and friends before we part for the day today it is and we are truly indebted to Mr. P. S. Raja Gopal the senior advocate through victim and associates who have been coming from him and not only that the end the end mantras by him we keep it the takeaways just like in the end so keep on watching Mr. P. S. Raja Gopal on Beyond Law CLC and we will continue with the series of service law and his services will always be appreciated by the society by one and all thank you everyone stay safe stay