 Yankees and other teams and part of the Yes Network family buckets. Michael Don and Peter. How are you? Hey guys, how's it going? Nothing to talk about, huh? Not a bit. Nothing good. Um, you know, I was listening to Jeff Passen today on what Stephen A. Smith and I thought I would throw this at you. Jeff Passen said that he spoke to a very highly regarded front office person in baseball who said, I would like to think that if I was in charge and my players were doing something that was illegal that I would stop it. But if they were doing something that was illegal and we just kept winning and things were rolling, I'm not sure that I would stop them. And this is supposedly one of the good guys in baseball. So let me ask you, Bach, I consider you a good guy. Would you stop your team from doing something illegal if it was highly effective and they were rolling? Like it's very easy to just say yes, I would. Okay. Well, we all, that's what we would say and I think we'd like to think that, but it goes a lot deeper than that. I mean, this is, you know, we all have decisions to make in our life whether it be standing up for a coach or things that don't get on the front page of something. It's just, you know, at some point you've got this battle going on behind your back between the angel and the devil. I tell the players all the time, you got to make decisions away from the ballpark and whatever who's going to win. I don't, some people wouldn't, I don't think would take the joy and pride and winning. If that was why you want, you know, let's face it, there's a lot of people, you might, you've heard it and you guys have heard a lot of the stuff about the Astros and people kind of coming out of the woodwork now that this has come out. It's, let's face it, there's some professional envy there to, you know, their success and how they went about it. And I try to look at things realistically and go, wait a minute now, not everybody's a bad guy. You put yourself in their shoes. But, you know, first of all, anybody to say that they didn't know what was going on, which I don't think anybody's really doing it. I know a lot of the new GMs today, they have somebody come down for them to the locker room. I know whether it's Gene Michael or John Hart or people I've been around, I mean, they're in the locker room before the game, after the game and you welcome there because you want that communication, you want that give and take and Mike, I'm going to tell you, it's not being paranoid or it's just being alert. You know everything that's going on. You're around these guys 15 hours a day for seven straight months. You're aware of things. You hear sounds. Your ears are trained to look at the first and third base coach in the first thing to read swings. I know we played a club and we could have 15 straight fastballs and finally do a changeup or break a ball. They didn't even budge and we all went, what a man, wait a minute, what's going on the thing you look for. And that's why they were so much talked about opposition about, you know, some of the swings that were being taken. You know, it's interesting. We're going into the assumption that Hinch or any other manager could do anything about it. Has it gotten to the points where the players have such power that you don't say anything as a manager because you know, you'll get shot down that you won't be able to change it. That's why many people believe Hinch broke the monitor on the computer in the first place because he didn't have the power to shut it down. Well, you know, I got there. My interaction with AJ has always been good. I have a lot of respect for him. I think he's articulate. You know, he's, you know, some of the challenges that he had in Arizona. He was a perfect fit in Houston. I think he learned some things along the way and you know, he's going to, he's going to land on his feet because he's a good baseball guy that just gotten a situation that, you know, I'm not, I haven't walked in his shoes and know what's going on. I know personally, you know, there wouldn't be frustration for a lot of guys because they would do that and they wouldn't tolerate anything else because you know, it's just, if you're going to get on somebody else for something they're doing illegal, you certainly better look in your own backyard and know what's going on. Believe me, I know when our guys, we had guys in Baltimore were very good at looking at video before a series and thinking they saw something and it would start in the dugout, the first inning and if it was there, then you got to get in the batter's box because a lot of things you see on video and a lot of things you see from the dugout you can't see in the batter's box. And then you might have to relay it from the dugout directly to them. And you know, now it's, is that cheating? You know, if, first of all, someone's doing something from the dugout directly to a hitter and I don't notice it, then shame on me. You know, there's certain checkpoints that managers should have to check that out. And you also have to look and make sure your guys aren't tipping things off. And that's a constant paranoia that coaches and managers have, that's part of your job description. Well, but my point, Buck, is what if Hinch knew, went to his players, stop, and his players said, no, we're not going to stop? Well, okay, how are they doing? My question, I don't know all the facts. You know, who was relaying it? Or is it some guy from an intern or somebody from the, from some department or whatever? I can't imagine a player's up there relaying it. You know, that's, that's where you start, you know? And there's a way to stop that from happening. Let's just put it that way. I, you know, you can, it's too close to the action not to be able to step around the corner and go, what are you doing? Come on, man. All right, so you've been in the game a long time, Buck. And a lot of the people I've spoken to in the last day thought that the punishment wasn't enough. Your opinion, was it enough? Was it harsh enough? You know, Mike, I've kind of changed on that a little bit in the last 24 hours, looking, not 24 less than that, but, you know, looking at all the things that were at the commissioner's disposal and looking at how Mr. Crane handled things there in Houston, I thought his press conference was pretty impressive. Mike, you know, he got out there by himself, front and center, he could tell he was speaking from the heart. And I thought he handled things really well out of pride and he's a very successful man. And what else could they have done? You know, other than a lifetime ban, and I just don't, you know. What's your take about taking away the championship? It was something that I'm sure was considered. At some point, you as a commissioner and everybody have to also think about what's best for baseball in the long run. And that was considered. I think whether or not they ever do it, I think it's going to have some form of asterisk beside it, though, even though it won't be, you know, I don't think they could do that. All things considered, I'm sure. And I know it was something that was considered, but I think in the, in the, for the good of the game and the whole, I think it's still going to get that same punishment, even though it's not out there, you know, out there publicly, that that's exactly what they did. I think everybody's going to look at it that way in a lot of ways. Well, it's like, how do you look at the Patriots, right? I mean, do you look at those Patriots? Championships has tainted your football fan. Do you look at Bill Belichick and say, he's a great coach, but, or have they done just so much winning that you don't think about it as much? Well, look at this. If a guy hit a home run to win a game with a cork bat, how would you look at that game when you find out a year later? I mean, there's, you know, a doctrine of baseball. Hey, guys, everybody that's been in the game has seen some form of this. I remember the minor leagues. I knew their manager was giving pitches in Reading, Pennsylvania, directly to the catcher. I think it was Aussie Virgil Jr. We were relaying signs for the dugout to the hitters. I think Jason Grimley was a pitcher. You know, he's a two-pitch pitcher. We knew every pitch was coming. But that was something where you decoded their signs just by looking at them. And there's so many ways to get an edge within the roles of the game that I think when you start doing it this way, it just opens up a whole different dynamic. All right, now. The commissioner acted appropriately. And I do, I have changed a little bit. Most of people I've talked to from my ilk thought it was, maybe they could have done more. But my question is what, Mike? What would be more? Well, I guess the thing that upsets people the most, and I said it just before he came on, it seemed like the investigators gave the players immunity for telling the truth. But the players kind of got off scot-free. I mean, Jose Altuve got a $150 million extension after that year. All those ill-gotten gains. I'm not saying you take away the money, but don't the players deserve to be punished because they took part in it? You could make that case. Maybe they have in some form or fashion. But I think that's trying to imply that they're not good players and they wouldn't have gotten that anyway. I think that's what's frustrating for a lot of people that these are great players. I mean, they're such a lure to even get more of an edge. Everybody's always looking for that extra edge. And they were so good analytically and that it makes you wonder how much is enough. And somebody's always gonna push an envelope. And that's what's, I'm sure, a little scary. You're in a very competitive business. There's only 30 teams in the world. These are the best players in the world. What's the separator? And everybody's looking for that separator. Yeah, but I laugh at that, though. They're good players. Obviously, Buck, to get to that level, it's like the argument why the guys who did PEDs, they couldn't make them hit the ball. But there's got to be an advantage to it or it wouldn't be done. Right, right. I'm not arguing with you, Mike. I don't understand where you're coming from, but what are they gonna do? Resend all the contracts? And we have a lot of takes on it. Okay, what's the action you take? Right. You know, avoid every contract. What is, you put yourself with the mission of shoes. At what point, you know, you're a protector of the game. You know, you, you're hired basically by the owners and by major league baseball to protect us the game as you go forward. Okay, here's all these things that are derivatives. How about all the pitching coaches and people that got fired? Pitchers that no longer maybe. Right. I think somebody made a good point about the tweeter pitcher that's trying to get that opportunity and he gets beat around. Look at all the people that had affected. So how do you, how do you resent that? Do you make every contract no avoid? And then, you know, that's, there's one thing to say to each other. Yes, you're true, but what's the answer? Well, how do you institute some punishment? And because you can't do a lot of the things you suggested, Buck, taking away the championship to me seems the easiest thing to do. I really don't see the negative in it. Matter of fact, I believe it protects baseball because what it tells you is that we're not going to tolerate cheaters. We're not going to tolerate a championship that's tainted at that level. Well, some people may say maybe they already have taken it away in some form or fashion. And it would also look bad for baseball because if the Red Sox also cheated in 2018, all of a sudden you vacated two titles. How would that make the sport? Well, I didn't look in 94 where greed cost a world series. I mean, this is, this is unfortunately the price that has to be paid here. But is it okay that you could have two teams cheating back to back and nothing seems to happen to them? Well, you know, I've learned through the years. Be careful about, you know, throwing stones somewhere else. You better make sure of your own backyard and shape. I know we would do that thing with Toronto, with Baltimore. And I think they just worked hard at it. I know they, before the game, after the game talking to people there, nobody can keep a secret in baseball. That's the most amazing thing to me that it took this long for somebody to say something. And in Toronto, they were, they were great at it. And when you got, they got a man on first or a man on second. I mean, look out, but it was only two or three guys. And it was the last team I really thought were constantly giving signs where the old brewers years ago because they played together forever and there was a real fraternity there and how they did it. But, you know, shame on you as an opposition, if you don't, I, you know, I really think that the Washington, if you watch how that series went down, they did, they did a lot of precautions on every pitch that, you know, they suspicious, there was suspicion there. They weren't going to go home with the idea that they didn't give themselves the best chance to win. Well, John, the thing that hit me, Mike, was, was looking at the record home or way to play off. My gosh, that's pretty obvious. Yeah. And then it's weird because last year they lost every home game. It's, it's, it's really hard to figure out. It's all a buck show after buck before we let you go. So this Astro job is now open. Yep. There's possibly the Red Sox job could be open. Yeah. There's an outside possibility that the net job could be open. That's doubtful, but we'll see. Are those desirable jobs for baseball man now or the jobs been tainted? That's a good question, Mike. I don't think the job itself has been tainted. I think there's, you always look at something that, you know, you might bring to a situation regardless of who it may be, whether it's someone like a spotter or John Gibbons or whoever. You know, you look at, and I'm sure Mr. Crane's going to look at that very astutely and try to figure out, you know, what they're in need of, but it's going to be a tough job. It certainly would be. And, you know, their ability to sustain it in the future has been kind of cramped, so to speak. But, you know, people that like a challenge and like a situation that, you know, jobs that are available, whether it be in Baltimore when I went in there or, or any of these jobs, they're open and available because they're a tough situation for whatever reason, whether it be payroll, whether there are ways to do everything. It's just, you know, do you have an idea of what needs to be brought and can you bring it? Don, you want to ask, or should I? No. Go ahead, Mike. Have you guys, have you been called by the Astros? I don't want to be the cause of them hanging up. Have you been called by the Astros? Mike, if I had, I certainly wouldn't talk to you guys about it, but you know, I have a lot of respect for all those situations. We all weigh in on things that were not completely knowledgeable about everything going on. And I have a lot of respect for things that I don't necessarily know about. It's like, you know, I don't know your job. I don't know a lot of the challenges that you guys have in the weigh-in smuggling about, you know, exactly what they should have done, shouldn't have done this and that, whatever, until you walk them all in the interviews, you got to be careful about it. I'm trying to maintain that. And, you know, I wish it never happened. I wish AJ Hintz and Jeff were still the general manager and manager, but it did. And now it's, you know, what are you going to do about it to go forward? If any of those teams hired you, it would be an outstanding decision. Wow, nice, nice comment. Big endorsement from Don there. You got Don's endorsement, Buck. Well, be careful what you wish for. Buck, thanks a lot, man. All right, guys, thanks for having me. Good luck to you guys. Thank you. How about that? You didn't talk about Clemson. Come on, man. Oh, we talked about it. I mean, what did you think? What was your take? That was kind of disappointing. I felt bad for the quarterback for Clemson. He had a tough night. But you know what? I said at the beginning of the show, he had a tough night because LSU was good. He didn't have a tough night because he had a tough night. Exactly. And I tell you, he showed me something in the semi-final game. He got up off the deck said the heck with you guys. I'm going to take it to you. And just watching those guys compete, that's pure sports. Sounds a lot of fun watching that. And I hope people just step back. Oh boy, those were two great sports teams competing at a very high level. It was as advertised. Buck, I couldn't help it. Notice you didn't bring up the Ravens performance on Saturday. That hurt. That hurt. I know John. Well, I think a lot of him. I call him a friend. It was ugly, huh? Now then it just, you know, you realize when you're, it's like the playoffs in baseball. You grind like hell to have a chance to roll the dice in October and you're dealing with that level of people, anything can happen. I mean, you look on paper, how's anybody going to stop Henry? How are you going to stop that? You know, those teams get, those guys get ahead. You talk about eat a clock up. My gosh. Yeah, they're very good. Okay. I felt for John. I love the fact that John stepped out and went in that direction with Jackson, but a lot of people weren't willing to do and got proved to be right. Surround himself with a proper person. I love Ozzie. Ozzie Newsom. I think he's one of most underrated gentlemen in history of the game. And I know he's still around it a lot. Okay. I'm done. Got you. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.