 A TikTok called out Tyler, the creator for a flat out lying to his fellow artist. He's not the only big artist who's done this. And a matter of fact, it might be damaging the way that most artists build out their careers. But before we get into it, let's get into what Sunny Baby, the TikToker, has to say when you call Tyler out. Because I just wanted to say that Tyler's full of shit with all due respect. But the idea that artists need to be talking about their music rather than other things. When they go on hot ones or sneaker shopping and shit like that. And when they do want to drop their album, they only go like double aluminum foil. And they wonder why I feel like this before we even go any further. Let's summarize that take. We've heard this time and time again from many artists. We know, oh, you only want to talk about the music. This should be about the music. And of course, you want to honor your art and your craft. We understand that, by the way, not hating on that idea. However, all right, like you said, you're surprised when your album doesn't do well. All right. Now, here's what he calls Tyler out. Feel like this conversation gets brought up all the time, even those clearest fucking day that's never really the case, especially coming from Tyler. And that's why I say he's full of shit because he was a person who made his entire career selling himself. Yeah, Tyler probably has more times than other artists talking about their music and explaining it. But this is a guy who point playing is the perfect example of a person who sold himself. He had TV shows. He had fashion shows. He has so many different areas of his personality that he was showing to his fans in which that made him so fucking popular. All these shows are and pretty much any media outlet is just an opportunity for an artist to showcase different aspects of their personality and who they are. I am to stop right there. You agree with the Tyler, the creator, sold himself his entire career. Yes, 100 percent, man. Like Tyler for one is one of the grandfathers, the OGs of, you know, it's kind of like modern day content system that relies heavily on personality, right? You go back to his YouTube channel or maybe the Gulf Wing YouTube channel and you can really see old YouTube videos of him and his friends interacting. And I remember being in high school and coming across these videos and being like, oh, like their friend group is just like our friend group. Like they just fucking around and, you know, saying smack each other and shit like that, you know, saying like we do. And then you think about the position that Tyler was in when he was first coming out. He was a musical outcast. He was a genre outcast, right? He was, you know, I think sometimes unfairly being lumped in the rap category. Again, you know, compared to rappers when, you know, now as he's evolved, we kind of see him outside of that route space. And the big way that he was able to differentiate himself and break through that barrier was by showcasing his personality, showcasing sometimes even his taste and other music, which is a form of personality. Tasting music is your personality, you know what I'm saying? And I think it will be hard. It's hard to imagine a world where Tyler still not only exists, but is as big as he is if he had never done that, which is why I hate this take from Tyler. This is why I hate this take from Tyler. Not because he's not a great artist in terms of his music and in terms of his vision, right? Like visually, how he produces and brings things together. Don't why I don't like to hear him say something like this on the platform is because he leveraged his personality, his his visuals and all these other things he had talent for. And when other artists hear this, right, they're going to stick to just music and or use this as an excuse to just do that and feel like, well, why am I going to create content? That's what the great artists, the real artists, they don't do that. And he is somebody who is a great artist, a real artist. So he he him saying not to do that, just validate those people who are already too lazy or feel like real artists don't do those things. You know, people saying crazy stuff like Jay-Z wouldn't use Tiktok when Tiktok wouldn't even around. You don't know. Right. It's like, yeah, Tyler represented a culture. He brought a different vibe. And I don't think he was unfairly put into the rap category because he was a rapper and he's somebody who like is a real rapper, knows his history, like, like respects the game in the art form. However, the unfairness part was because he was a rapper who presented things differently, especially being like a black kid. Right. He had that to deal with. There was no place for him and his crew in the popular rap culture at the time. Right. Yeah. But it's like all of that, though, created who he was and what he represented. Him representing something, whether he was trying to do it or not, is what made him matter so much to fans. Yeah, 100 percent, man. And I think one of the most pivotal points in his early career was creating Lord of Squad because it did a couple of different things. Right. It allowed him to kind of step outside the music bucket a little bit. I think that was maybe one of his first real ventures of stepping outside of music. It allowed him to bring in his friends. It's almost like a cast of his life. So now he kind of got to lessen the little bit of that burden of entertainment of himself, make a couple of other faces in the group. And, bro, what is Lord of Squad, but fucking long TikTok skits? Like, you telling me that in 2023 he couldn't, if he wanted to, he could bring that same concept back today and make it a TikTok series or a YouTube series and it would do just as well, if not better as it did back then. And so that's why I say it's weird to hear him say things like that, because you almost think he would be on the side of it, right? Because like I said, like the paper trail is there. Like you could look at my career over the last 10 years or have a long as been and see that a lot of the things that, you know, people like us are telling artists today, he was in the the phase of figuring out back before it was even a thing that we knew people needed to be doing. It's like we could see it and as a fan, you could feel the impact that had on you, but it was hard to articulate it to another artist that like that's exactly what was going on. Now you have people like him that are, I mean, he's probably like one of the best examples, if not the best, I would argue, like maybe him and Doja Cat are probably two of the best examples of that, like selling yourself or also creating good art in terms of the music and then having a massively successful career because of doing both of those things really well. You know what I'm saying? And it's like the paper trail is there. We had to do it when it wasn't a thing that was being pushed and it wasn't really figured out. Now you have me as a blueprint. Yo, I want to want to keep playing this clip from Sunny, baby, because it's a beautiful take and just another perspective on that common topic that you do here. But I do want to point out and not dismissing the work that Tyler had to do, because you know, he did real work and he was moving against the grain in many ways and it didn't, it wasn't obvious that he would turn out to be where he is now, right? So there's a lot to go for that. And I think what artists like him, like when they, why they end up saying stuff like this is because they have the benefit of being in a space where they're able to present themselves in their authentic creative vision. All right. With, but the timing is right. Andre talked about this kind of like where he's like talking about for an artist, one, you need to connect with your stuff. But he talked about the timing, right, where the timing was right for him and he didn't have to deal with some of these things that the other artists are dealing with, where it's like, I don't have any connections. I don't have any homies. I just don't have any resources. Right. And timing who knows, I think TikTok creates some pretty good timing, but it's like now I, I might be doing these things as a way to come up where you were just doing it and it happened to be the right thing. Yeah. But you were doing it authentically. So I understand why you can feel with like, well, you know what I mean? Like that as a strategy isn't a thing because you weren't thinking about it that way. I get that, but your timing and the packaging, it just happened to all go together without you having to try, but it's not effortless for everybody. Same way, you know, I mentioned like Travis saying he doesn't like marketing and like Kanye, I heard him talk down on marketing and it's like they are the best marketed and packaged individuals out there. I think that maybe marketing gets a bad rep because they probably see marketing from the perspective of record labels and how they treat and approach marketing, but that is not great marketing necessarily, right? It's like there's so many definitions and don't allow that stigma to be because y'all are great marketers and the greatest marketing has the greatest product in the long term product itself because you go through the word of mouth and the presentation of packaging. These guys are genius at product and packaging. All right. That is a huge part of marketing. All right. So like when they, when I hear them, I think again a lot of times it's really the pushback to the media, the manipulation and popular culture and ultimately record labels in the way they approach marketing, but it's like, yeah, y'all, y'all are the case studies, right? For if I wanted to tell the artists what great marketing look like and what it looks like to be the beautiful bridge and synergy of like great music, product, right? And artistic marketing, like they are that bridge. Yo, artists, there's a lot of distributors out there, but if you want to distribute your, that will take you seriously, not just look at you as a number. Then to loss is the platform from you. I'm talking about helping you beyond just putting your music on all the DSPs. That's what y'all are supposed to do. To loss actually helps you with your money. I'm talking about whoever is a part of the song dealing out the splits easily or more importantly, helping giving you an advance so you can actually create what you need to, whether that's studio time, whether that's your music video, but helping you get money to help fund your career. And most importantly, a lot of these distributors don't really help with the playlisting and things like that unless you are a signed artist. You have some kind of serious deal, but to loss has that ability as well. And some of our clients, when they switched over to to loss, they've given us shining reviews. So check out to loss to loss.com and make sure you put in the code no label again. That is no label. N O L A B E L and let them know that y'all came from us. It's completely free. Make sure y'all let me know where y'all came from. No label. Let's get back to the episode. Yeah, I'm saying real quick before we get back in the video. But yeah, you touched on the point about how, you know, it was it was organic in the beginning. It may not have been looked at as a strategy for them. Right. And that's the beauty of going back and looking at some of these artist's early content when they weren't stars, when they weren't even, you know, as notable as that. Like, yes, it's very pure, you know what I'm saying? It's very refreshing in a sense. But I'm not going to give him that benefit of the doubt because by the time Lord of Squad came out, it was a strategy. And if it wasn't a strategy that he himself was enacting or had identified, somebody around him looked at it and was like, yo, people like when you are you. Yeah, let's put more of you out there. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that because also Tyler is a thoughtful individual just from what I see from afar. He seems to be a thoughtful individual. So the end of aware individual. So it's only but so long, even being rooted and initially done out of an authentic space, you then start to understand the use of it. The impact of it is no different than improving your show. And I do this and I'm like, oh, I realized that makes the moment go. So I might do this to order my set. You know what I mean? Yeah, bro. It's like they like when I slap tacos. I'm going to slap tacos some more, brother. You know what I'm saying? Whatever gets you out to the music. Let's get back to the clue. An ample of a person who sold himself. He had TV shows. He had fashion shows. He has so many different areas of his personality that he was showing to his fans in which that made him so fucking popular. All these shows are and pre-ment to any media outlet is just an opportunity for an artist to showcase different aspects of their personality and who they are. I am telling you, as someone who sits here and talks about artists each and every day in multiple days for years, people don't fucking care about the music. They care about the story. They care about the person you are selling yourself. It is you. It is everything about you. This reminds me just a few months ago when ESTG walked out on the bootleg podcast because he didn't want to talk about his time as a high school football player. I never knew ESTG was a good high school football player. I didn't know that he had the opportunity to be a football player and use that as a career. So why did he choose rap instead of that? That's interesting to me. I don't think ESTG is the kind of guy that's going to go into full depth about his music making process and make it entertaining for an hour and a half. Contrary to popular opinion, fans do not fucking care about artists talking about their music. I love him saying these things as well, because what y'all should understand about Sonny Baby, like from my perspective and like the content I've checked out with him over time, he's still as much as he breaks things down like very well from a music marketing and branding standpoint, he's still a fan, but he's not like in the industry in that way he's speaking of it like from a fan analysis that obviously touches on a lot of those same ways. So when you hear him say, I don't care about this stuff as a fan, although I'm going deep enough into the music to even talk about these things, it's at the end of the day. All right, I just want to be interested in you. All right, I want to be interested in the music. The music is like that's the point of entry. All right, music is. What's the word I'm looking for? Not a bonus. It's just the expectation, right? Like that's just a part of it. Every every artist, music artist is going to have music. Cool. Yeah, thanks. So we know you got that. But why do I care about you versus other artists? Why do I care beyond that? And most importantly, if you flip it, why do I dislike some artists, especially in today's age, you're going to hear more and more people say, no, I don't rock with that artist because they might have did something egregious, right? Well, it's like some Me Too type stuff, right? Whether it's some like a racist comment, whatever that thing is that shows that people care beyond the music. And you probably are judging artists beyond the music yourself based on some of these things, whether they're doing something corny, how they treat women or or whatever they're doing. All right. Yeah. Why would you expect anybody else to be different? Exactly. But how many of you all said, like, I'm not listening to the artist because he looked lame or something like that, but same same concept, right? The video was corny. Yeah, the video was corny. I don't like what he wears, how he or she dresses or whatever. Like it's all there until your point. Like people can see it once in another artist. Easily can see it with themselves, whatever reason. But, you know, this is a point that we made for a very long time and you touched on it, right? You said music is the bare minimum. Like when you are a music artist, I can assume that somewhere in the depths of everything you put out, there is some music. It could be one song, it could be a hundred. I just know there's something there somewhere. Now, the interesting thing about music fans today, you know, a couple of episodes have appointed myself as the lead talk of music fans everywhere. And I feel like I speak for us and I speak for us all. There was a time when finding good music was a hard thing to do. It was scarce, right? Like we go back to yesterday's of the industry, you know, it was not uncommon for like in the calendar year, there'd be only like, you know, 50 new artists introduced to the marketplace. And so hearing an amazing song or a good song felt like an anomaly. It felt like an event, right? You fast forward to today, where there are literally tens of thousands of songs been put out every day. It's not as difficult as artists like to make it sound sound to find good music. I find good music on accident sometimes. Sometimes I'm just doing the other shit. Oh, that shit fought. Like I was in the Lig store the other day and like the got the kid at the counter was playing like there's there's Indian rap song. That shit was crazy. I was like, bro, what is this? Please tell me the name of the song. She was hard. So music isn't as much of a draw as it used to be because, you know, we got to think if the average music fan is possibly coming across, let's just say 10 good songs a week. They're like, I'll lower it. Let's say five good songs a week today here. That means by the end of the month, I've heard at least 20 good songs. By the time I get to you new artists that's telling me, hey, go listen to my music. That's good. I'm already thinking, I mean, I found 20 songs this month that I like, you know what I'm saying? It's already good. Do I want to really add to this or do I have the capacity to add to this? And so what's interesting about it and what makes the personality aspect of it so important is that, like I said, as fans, when we see you on these different platforms, we see you on a podcast. We see you on a cast in that stream. We see you talking to a YouTuber. We're not stupid. We've been sending this blueprint for years. We know you are here to try to sell and convince me to go listen to your music. Now, the issue is that when everything is about the music and solely about the music, you start to feel like an ad. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, you just come off like a snake oil salesman, bruh, it's like, because, you know, we've heard the saying, good music should sell itself or something. So then it even starts to feel like, bro, if the music is that good, touch on it real quick and talk about some other shit and then let me make that decision based on what you said and these other factors that we already touched on that might make me a little bit more interested in you and want to actually give you the time to see if you're right or not. And so, you know, some people aren't even putting enough depth in their music that merits a whole interview. Yeah, it's like he said about the ESTG thing, like I agree, like it is very hard for me to imagine an interview where ESTG talks for an hour about his musical process. And just me knowing the musical processes of most trap rappers, I probably already know how it went. You know what I'm saying? Like just to be honest. So yeah, man, as cool as artists like to think it is to only talk about the music from the fan perspective, you come off like an advertisement. Think about it this way. Have you ever gone around to restaurants? You know, you like to eat, right? Yeah, you go to school. Yeah, you go around to restaurants and you try a lot of different restaurants in a short period of time. And I'm talking about you actually like go back to back on some good ones. And you're like, damn, this is a real good one. This is a real good one. This is a real good one. Like in the same day? Not the same day, but just within a short period of time it could be like within a week, right? So you go out and within a short period of time you discover a lot of good restaurants on top of the ones that you already rock with, right? Yeah. And you eventually have you gotten to the point where you're like, all right, man. Like let me just cut out some new restaurants. I need to like chill for a second because I still got the restaurants I like and I haven't been back to those yet. And this is just crazy, right? So many good ones. I'm overwhelmed. So you almost cut off. It's like, I don't want to discover no new restaurants for a minute. Give me up myself a little break. That's what people are going through with music too. It's like I just discovered maybe four, five dope songs. I discovered 20 songs maybe this week or a couple of artists dropped a new project and I still want to listen to my old stuff. I need a minute to sit with these and consume these because I can't just keep going and just touching bases. I'd never really get that full benefit. So why am I going to continue to listen to you over all these other tracks that I gotta listen to, right? And if I'm just listening to music then the next level is support. Why am I gonna support you actively versus all these other artists? Did I like all these artists? Music is a pyramid, right? The music that I don't know of, then you got the music that I do know of and now I gotta make a decision on which music I will listen to, the music that I did listen to, now I gotta make a decision on do I like it or not. Out of the music I listen to, how much of it do I like and between the music that I've listened to and I like, I gotta now decide who do I wanna actively support because I can only actively support for so many and then there's levels of support and then I gotta make a decision within that, right? Like this is the organization, the decision that fans are being hit with every single day, no different than you are being hit with that same decision in some category. That's why I say like we're all going through it but you know, you kind of alluded to this, like people like cut off that same mind when they're working with themselves, man. Yeah. Because they can just listen to the fucking music. Sure, you're gonna get a portion of some like hardcore fans who would be interested, right? You'll probably get some fans who are artists themselves or maybe they're engineers or producers. Yeah, people like that may care but your average everyday person doesn't. They want to know about you, it has always been you and the reason why I'm so passionate about this is because I like five other videos explaining this exact situation. Your music will get people interested but to keep people to stay that has to be you. Your music, if good enough, will go ahead and carry itself. You don't need to go on to explain to people why you made it or how you made it unless they specifically ask but for the most part they fucking don't because they don't care because they can just listen to the music. Now in Tyler's defense, because it is fair, he's not trying to shit on hot ones or sneaker shop and he believes that outlets promote more negative information and attention which is absolutely true and I agree 100%. It is one thing that I've talked about in the hip hop space as a reason why I think it's declining matter of fact. But again, sure, Tyler can go ahead and talk about his music because he has cultivated a unique fan base that would probably listen to some of that. At the same time, he should be the first one to tell you it is you, it is your personality that sells, not the music. Could be the first one to tell you. Tyler is definitely someone who's cultivated a fan base where he can drop stuff and he can talk about his music and his fan base will listen just because he's Tyler. You're still gonna have people who are lesser fans that are just gonna hear the music. They don't want to necessarily talk about it but he is someone who has more of that than many. Just like Andre, every artist wouldn't be able to drop a jazz project and get people to listen because most people don't listen to jazz or that type of music but because of Andre, the brand he's established people are gonna try to force themselves to like it or feel like they get it. That's just what it is. That's the brand. Just like listen to some Kanye stuff you don't like and people are like, oh, y'all just don't get it. It's that same type of thing. Tyler has that level of artistic vision where he's done it so well. He's leading a pack. He's viewed as a pioneer so he can then take those chances. So he has given himself that but the point that he also, Sonny mentioned about the negativity of the hip hop outlets that obviously Tyler talked about. I 100% agree with that as well which is why artists avoid those interviews. I mean, I guess too heavy into the gossip culture and stuff like that. So I do understand that aspect of it but we're not talking about that stuff. In terms of the conversation we're having, we're just talking about other forms of personality in general. Yeah, I agree, man. I look at it like, could you just say something before we got to the latter part of the clip right about just the energy management that fans are going through when it comes to music discovery and listening to their stuff. And sometimes Beckins the question, I know I'll find myself asking myself this question is why go find something new when I haven't necessarily dove as deep as I know I can with the people I already love, you know what I'm saying? And so sometimes I look at the management of my musical listening energy almost feels like dating sometimes, you know what I'm saying? And it becomes a situation where it's like, man, I could go out into the world and meet this new person and date them and get to know them or I could just maybe establish a deeper relationship and connection with this person that I have already come to like, you know what I'm saying? And maybe even love in some instances, you know? Maybe. And so sometimes I'm really thinking about that with other artists. I'm like, man, I could go spend 30 minutes, you know, scouring through playlists and tick tocks for some new music to listen to or I could spend 30 minutes watching an interview for my favorite artists and get to know them even more, you know what I'm saying? And maybe we already know that it's a scratch. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Cause I know like I'm a watch the interview to the great point. I know I'm a watch the interview. I might possibly learn something new that deep is my connection and my relationship with this artist. When I turn the interview off and I go listen to that music, I already know I'ma like it cause I already fuck with it. So it's like, sometimes, you know, people are simple, man. Like we want to go where we know we're going to get rewarded. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes we're going to stick to places where to the restaurant point, right? I can go try this new restaurant that I keep hearing is good or I can go back to the JJs and give me a 10 piece and I know that shit gonna smack, bro. Yeah, exactly, bro. People are looking for a dopamine rush, right? They're looking for some form of pleasure. And, you know, we, you know, think about a little cup buddy situation. Like dang, like you said, I could go do something new, go through all this work and then maybe get the reward or I could just go ahead and get this guarantee real quick. Exactly, man. Exactly, bro. It all comes down to. And that is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary Pocket. Y'all check us out. I'm Bermond Sean. And I'm Cory. And we out. Peace.