 Hello and welcome to the shakedown where we talk about criminal justice from the inside out I Am your host Rainforest a.k.a. Ryan Forbes. I have spent six years in a Texas prison or in multiple Texas prisons and During that time I studied sociology specializing in social welfare and was cooped up with this guy Malone And who are you Malone? I am Aaron Malone. I am a Biologist that's Study the behavior in the wilds of both Borneo and Sumatra for over 30 years Yes, and by I am Jane Goodall Yes, yes and by studying orangutans he means that he was locked up in prison for 30 years and Has recently got up gotten out alongside me to To talk to people about these issues with prisons a.k.a. orangutans so So We one thing I was thinking today that we were going to talk about is You know I as Malone had said just before the show is that I can defend You know prison abolition and what we should do You know why we shouldn't have prisons and what we can do instead of having prisons At the drop of a hat because it's something I've had plenty of time to think about and plenty of time to plan out what the question is is that can you the listener to that and So Malone and possibly our buddy Dave if he If he has time Yes, Dave Yeah, Dave Malone is actually alive from Dave's new place and He but yeah, we will see if we can get Dave on the show here at here soon and we can hopefully have some more inputs As this goes on, but we figured we'll get started While Dave is Kate taking care of some of his business because this is his day off and he deserves some time off to Dave's self so Malone go ahead What's that? I will know I know I'm just saying yeah, we got a year full about that today Yes, we've been getting in here. We haven't quit hearing about it yet as a matter of fact but uh All right. Well first question first So you advocate not only prison abolition and it but so you you actually Advocate reintegrating dangerous criminals back in society. So let's talk about that Why I mean Simple justice dictates that if someone takes a life that he should receive a life He shouldn't be allowed prison the rest of his life is then forfeit How do you justify? You know letting someone like that go. I mean they don't they deserve to spend the rest of their life locked up Don't they deserve all the torments and tortures that the Texas prison system can bestow upon them Well, that's so so that's Something that question is basically it's saying that yeah, they just they deserve it So it's not just really it should go to its logical end and a lot of times I do argue that with people is if someone takes life, then why don't we just kill them? Why don't we just have capital punishment? Because honestly if you're going to put if if you feel like you if that's how it works If you take a life then you have to be removed from society forever then putting them in a cage in a horrible like in the place that what prison is That's still taking away their life. That is still you're still taking away their life You are just you're just doing it in a different way. It is still a life punishment it is still a I feel a capital punishment of Taking their life and you're just but not only are you Are you killing them? But you are basically having the taxpayers pay for their lifetime sentence in there now neither of those are good None of neither killing them right away just taking out a gun and shooting them in the head right then and there is a good thing nor is Is having them locked away? What the ideal should be is what a lot of people think that prison is right now Which is you go in here and you get rehabilitated So that when you get out you're ready to be reintegrated with society now The question is is how do we do that if we were trunk if if throughout the entire lifetime of prison? We had been like figuring out what does it take to take someone who? Was callous enough or had enough problems in their life to take a life Take someone else's life and what does it take to reintegrate them back in society? We'd be pretty good at it. We we as a society would be good at Rehabilitating them and then getting them back into society, but that's not what we've been practicing What we've been practicing is let's throw them in a box and forget about it And not and never think about it again and before that it was let's hang them Let's stone them. Let's let's kill them in a different way Let's you know, let's set them on fire. Let's drown them in a lake, you know, if you know some if the crime occurs lock them in the dungeons but none of these are helpful to society because as As awful as anyone like everyone does awful hurtful behaviors and murder Murder and I we can go on murder robbery and you can go down the whole list of awful Behaviors that you can go into prison for our awful behaviors, but everyone has awful behaviors They've done that have hurt other people because of their actions Just the list that we have on the law books are what you go to prison for The question is is how do people learn how to deal with bad behaviors and it's not really us as an individual person It's how do we as society deal with it so that we can move forward is that That work my did I address did I dress the issue? You address the issue, but in a certain sense you kind of at the very beginning of it You really kind of made the argument of someone who's Pro-deaf pillion said, you know, you know Okay, well, yeah, I agree with you. We shouldn't put him in prison. We should just go ahead and kill him I and I want to be very we don't have that. Yeah No, I want I want to be clear about this this thing about the death penalty, too And I want it I get nervous about that, but I want want to I So we've talked on this show and we've even talked on the prison show in Texas Um tech in tech actually know you didn't you weren't there for that conversation. It was just me So when I was on the I know well, we can get they want you on so we can get you on and we can talk more so I can I we can always make that arrangement so when So when I talked to them I I said explicitly that a lot of times a Lot of things a lot of progress is not made in prison reform because we focus on the death penalty and What I did at the beginning of that argument was to make it and what and what I try and do and I know a lot of people Won't hear it this way, but I want to make it clear is that the death penalty is just as bad as life in prison so time Years of life Spent in prison is the same is just as bad as the death penalty It is still they are both morally wrong so there so The the problem with focusing on the death penalty is There's when when people focus on the death penalty, which there's so many groups They're like, let's end the death penalty. We need to end the death penalty Let's get rid of it which in Texas the death penalty was ended and then they brought it back and then now what they do is this game where they They don't people protest and protest and protest and protest and then they get one person one Inmate there's Texas is Texas has a bigger prison system than most countries and they get one Inmate and they don't get him released. They just get him off death row and that's it and That is considered a victory, which is to me crazy It's it's the this is it's still morally wrong to have all these inmates in these prisons at the same time so death penalty and Prison colonies all bad. They're all prisons all that it's it's bad So the point I'm trying to make is whether you pull that that lever on the electric chair or to stick the needle in their arm Or pull the lever on the gas chamber yourself It if you Want someone to go to a prison that is just as bad Because they are both morally wrong and the difference is is that if you fight to get rid of prisons then you by default Get rid of the death penalty so you should always fight to get rid of prisons the death penalty will go along with it and Really the death penalty will leave faster Because they'll make that as a concession. That's an easy concession for them to make they because they don't they need inmates prisons to sit there for years on end because we're slave labor and Inmates are free slave labor products are made in the US shipped all over the States You would not have judges chambers that are made out of this fine wood with leather Upholstered furniture without inmates making that inmates make all of that and you and so you have to have You have to like so they will happily get rid of the death penalty If they can keep inmates in prisons making all the all of that stuff for for free Really for just for the price of housing, which is for is cheap Which is what slavery is right Well You know, I hear your your argument about rehabilitation versus Life and life in prison, but certain you're not going to advocate that do that that Criminals just be let go that they that okay you come in the wrong. Well, you know what? You know, we're not gonna do anything to you at all but put you in some kind of class I mean, how is what you're advocating any different than a prison? So what I'm advocating for is different because I have actually experienced before I went to prison I went to treatment and treatment is like the polar opposite of prison Even though a lot of the steps are the same In both prison and in treatment you're removed from society In both treatment in prison You have like a set sentence that you're that you're going there for in both prison and treatment you have people they're constantly monitoring you and keeping tabs on you and constantly keeping track of you and There's measures there to keep to make sure you stay where you're at All of those are both in prison and treatment the difference between prison and treatment is the goal The goal of treatment is to get you Rehabilitated the goal of prison is to keep you in prison That the officers out of prison like and you see it painted on the walls Security is our priority like it's let's like I can't remember what it says, but it's like security written Convenient security is not convenient. Yes, and it says that all over the place. Nothing in prison is convenient nothing and in treatment it used to be secure I mean for the longest time they Anything that they wanted to do in TDC all they had to do is claim there was a security issue That's what they always did they they confidence. I mean if The Jews in prison wanted to wear yarmulkes they claimed oh, it was it was a security issue while we couldn't wear our yarmulkes because By wearing a yarmulke you can somehow escape from prison Are the really good when they said that you can hide contraband under your Under your yarmulke this this right here We have no problem lifting up our yarmulkes you can see there's nothing underneath the yarmulke other than our heads You know, but that you know, it didn't matter You know that all they had to do is say say the word security and it cleared them of whatever. I remember that one time I got I know had his prayer book confiscated in the hallway his his sitter is Jewish prayer book a book that was sent into prison and passed through the DRC that the TBC's a censorship People that that judge books whether or not they're they're allowed to be in prison or not Came in through the mail room legally and was given to him and then some warden walk through walk down Always seen in his hands and let me have that He looked at it one time and then confiscated and so the issue was then brought it So, you know, of course, we filed grievances. We went to the chapel Why was our foot? Why was this book taken? What's this is it me? So they went to the warden about it in the warden said I couldn't Understand the Hebrew words in that book. Therefore, it was a security issue because I didn't know what was written in it And for all I know, it was a book on how to make bombs even though he gave it back So when we gave it back, we're like, well, did you learn to read Hebrew or something in that in that period? It's in the couple of weeks that you had this right now. You're now you're pretty Confident that it's not a bomb-making book, you know, you know, but The point is is that they just used that as a catch-all. It was it was a it didn't matter What it was they could get away with whatever they wanted to do by simply uttering the word security Since the prison the What is it the the uh, Priya No, not Priya No, it's the the dang The religious institutionalized people whatever you know the rulepost of the Religious freedom and insulin institutionalized part people's act or something like that. You know, I think it was something It was like signed way back in the 90s. I mean it took Uh, nearly 30 years for that for What it was signed in the law to actually accomplish Which was to allow people like jews that weren't being given their basic religious rights the right to wear a yarmic car to go a beard in prison practice to religion and and Since then they haven't been able to simply claim, you know security anymore Beards quit being it was so funny because all these decades that they said that beard is a security issue Or yarmica is a security issue or something like that. That's why they can't let you do it as soon as they allowed it. It was looks like it poof All those things went away and everybody was and were You're living normal life and there was never ever a concerned begin with It was almost like it never ever wasn't that way Very very Yeah, the real situation That that is yeah, it is like I was about to say too while you were talking on it's like these beards Were considered a security risk and all of that as well And it's and and so like what we were talking about too before was Like said in prison. It's all about security in treatment. It's all about rehabilitation I've watched people throw chairs across the room I have watched people make direct threats in treatment And no one was handcuffed. The police were not called It's because it's about figuring out how to deal with this situation And like in get everyone um rehabilitated now, I will say like if something There were eyes still people are still people are locked behind Yeah, they're locked they're locked away in some kind of facility They're they're not allowed just to walk back in society whenever they want to I mean, there's still keys and locked doors and security measures and so forth else in your Scenario, right? Right. We're not we're not part of society When when all that went down when the chairs were being thrown and all that kind of stuff We were not in society But at the same time I slept on a bed at night I went to in a to sleep on a bed whereas in prison I slept on a potato sack full of expestus Like it's a very different thing. I had pillows. I had blankets. I had um, whatever I needed I dressed in free world clothes. All right. If there is no Um, I was not required to have my beard like no one was checking to my beard to make sure it was You know, so many inches long No one was was doing any checks like that. I could wear my sunglasses, you know on the basketball court or whatever It he doesn't they they don't care about that. They care about rehabilitation You are separated from society, but you're separated because you need to work on yourself, which is That is an entirely different perspective Then you're separated from society because we're afraid of you and we're afraid of what you're going to do and um And that's the problem We have if the goal And the thing is is not everyone in To be 100% fair the way or even the way set up with treatment People left and then they started using again. All right They got out the door and then they wanted to go celebrate finishing up treatment by getting drunk or high or whatever and It's not that we have this thing down It's it's not down pat to a science, but we also We don't do it on the scale that we incarcerate people either. We're not trying As hard as we have have been with prisons and um, it's If we actually went and legitimately Tried to like if that's our goal if we put as much effort To figuring out how can we rehabilitate people? And get them to a better place um As we do trying to keep them locked in these awful awful awful places Which the majority of the people who are locked in these places are going to get out and after being Traumatized by these places are probably going to end up doing something worse Because I tell everyone all the time that leads that segues right into my next question, right? Go yes. Well, I'll say they're probably going to end up doing some something worse and um Go ahead Malone. Yeah, just go. Yeah, go go ahead with uh, The next question I would have then is is like you just said there's people that go through treatment And it does not have its desired effect and they get out and they maybe start using again I mean if you put that into the scenario of someone once again who's committing violent crimes Somebody else that leads to the potential of someone else getting hurt again by those people I mean, is that really a risk or a gamble that that you'd be willing to take? I mean, I'm are you really thinking? Thinking of this through and that someone could just manipulate the system Just in order to get out and hurt someone else So we love to talk Especially the people who support prisons love to talk about the founding fathers and what they believed in And one of the things the founding fathers truly believed in especially when it came to prison was that uh Better that ten guilty men go free than one innocent man be locked away And I'm not even taught it's not necessarily about innocent man. It's it's about the fact that if There's one person who can get out And do something good with their life after having done what they did then like There's there will be mistakes made by any system. There's mistakes made by this system But that's the point is like that's that's really the bottom line We're already letting people out And they're causing harm so so you can just eliminate Like well, what if someone else like are we putting someone more at risk? No, because there's we're already when you go into a prison You're more likely to do harm when you leave it than when you entered it So we're already making a place that creates crime in in the free world And not only that you know any statistics that that would um back up what you're saying It's like I don't know what the statistics are were are as far as uh the recidivism rate back in the the day the day and age of the revolving door as opposed to After that maybe like mid 90s when nobody was getting making pool and after you know in the day and age of of Uh, whenever uh, uh, parole is more much more difficult to have Did did more people that got out? um Refined or did Here are some do do more people reap in now as opposed to back then Well, here are some statistics. I can throw at you that will that can help explain and that I do know off the top of my head 70 percent About it's around 70 to 80 percent of people who get out of prison Will within three years within three to ten years. So I think it's within three years. It's 70 percent within Ten years it's going on 90 percent um so of so within that range 70 percent uh Of prisoner or our ex felons will reoffend in that time Okay So what so that sounds like less people are reoffending when they get out, but here's but the point is is that Everyone in their lifetime commits crimes the biggest determination Determination of crime of someone who commits crime Is age so generally people commit crime of all types whether that's speeding or or murder or Uh, you know embezzling People do that When the younger all right, especially the the peak is between 18 and 35 All right, so that's the peak of when people do that So when people are getting out of prison when they're in their later They're late 30s and 40s and stuff like that the crime rate should be dropping down Because they should be aging out That's why they increasingly want to lock people up more But when people are getting out and the the rate is still 70 percent That says something and really they're and you say well, what about people who constantly reoffend There is a certain they have they know exactly that number and that number of people who Constantly reoffend constantly are are very dangerous for a society It's seven percent Of the total population We lock up 25 percent Like 25 percent is in one point or another is going to be touched by uh By pretty much everybody who knows somebody is locked up right So if not frankly related to them or they are them themselves. Yeah, so So we're we're way over policing this thing And that's what goes what drives me back to We're going the wrong way We're locking up way more like we're instead of letting the you know for we're letting instead of letting You know 100 guilty men go for every innocent man We're letting we're getting we're going way off in the other direction and And that's also why i'm saying that you're more likely to reoffend Because most people aren't going to offend at all once they hit a certain age bracket And this is regardless of how much money they make what race they are where they live None of those Matter when criminologists study that Those don't matter. The only thing that matters is age When you're in that 18 to 35 range, you're the highest at risk Now there's that seven percent that you can it doesn't matter It just doesn't matter. They just want to they want to deviate from the norm Those are the people who we need to figure out how how do we incorporate them in society? How do we do with it? But I will tell you this A lifetime in treatment versus a lifetime in prison Are two totally different things a lifetime in treatment Is a lifetime in treatment is unfortunate But a lifetime in prison is that is It's beyond the punishment you have taken away that person's life a lifetime in treatment The people surrounding them will try and give that person access to as much as they can They will work with that person They will understand what their boundaries are and they will work They will work not only to protect that person They will work to protect the people around them and they will understand they will try and work together But officers in prison They don't care they were trained to say that inmates are liars and that they we should not be doing anything And they will if you're locked up in a prison for your entire life You have no life. It is taken away your family your friends all of it your opportunities gone It's if if you were locked up If you were locked up in the 90s And you had a life sentence like if you were Locked up as a teenager in the 90s. You have a life sentence and you're you're sitting. You're still sitting in prison right now Then you've never used a cell phone. You've never used the internet probably you've never used like you don't know like Like all of these things you probably The only way you have access to them is as contraband being snuck into prison, which is another thing Not only are the inmates more likely to offend we now make the officers criminals too Because they don't get paid they get overworked They're put in this crazy dangerous situation and to capitalize on it The best way to do it at is to once again take advantage of the inmates who will bribe them and in in all sorts of different ways to To try and make their lives easier which in treatment In treatment I saw that too I saw people trying and bribe the staff and you know what the staff said They said no because the reason that they were there was to help them And they knew that if if someone bribe them or whatever that that was not helping them because they had a different mission For being there and they were and they liked being there All right before you go on too far though. Let me I got another one to hit you with okay And it's kind of you you kind of touched on this point as well But look let's let's say you're right. Okay fine. I I may agree with you. Let's look at it from the point of view that Maybe it is societally better or whatever, but What if society doesn't care what if as a whole as a majority of people that are out there Which is probably the case in texas Okay, we don't care whether or not this is gonna we're not trying to help these people these people have harmed us And we want to hurt them back. We're angry and we want we just want them to be imprisoned We want them to suffer. We want glad their life is getting taken away from Man, how do you argue against that if that's if that is the desire of society then So be it. I mean thus thus the people have spoken and they and they're the ones with the voting vote with the Right. I and and that is that is there's a lot of people like that there and I I've talked about on this show before There's a lot of people who are they feel like certain sentences deserve they deserve what they get my judge He's like that. You deserve what you get but You want to you didn't care about the hardships that you faced. I mean, right no matter how onerous it may be to have to to uh being put upon you to a Complete your your sentence As far as he was concerned, you know You know It's it's not enough probably Right. Well, I killed someone so I deserve what I get and I get and I hear I hear what he's saying I I hear And I this is what I want. I mean There's people out there There's going to be families of people that have been murdered and they're angry and and and they're they're upset and it's And it is going to be extremely difficult for anybody to not see their point of view in the whole thing And then they're like, I don't care. I don't want this person ever back in society. I don't care if he comes back I don't care if he if he's fixed or whatever. I don't you know, uh, I don't want him to get fixed I just want him to hurt. I just want him to suffer like I'm suffering And that's let's start with them. Let's start with the the victim aspect of it first So to the victims, I want to say this is there's there's a really good analogy um that I heard about which was basically If it's like vegans being stuck in like in the middle of the sahara and they've been wandering the desert And um, they're starving. They have they haven't had any water or anything And then all of a sudden, you know, what? You know that happened to me Yeah, happened to your ancestors No, it happened. No, I'm telling the hell of a story. I'll have to get on that one Yeah, but so but anyway, these vegans are stuck in the middle of the desert They haven't eaten or anything like that all of a sudden a hamburger stands Stands there and then all the vegans are lined up at the hamburger stand and they're just they're mowing down And there and then someone goes and says see They like it. They love it And that and that's exactly what our criminal justice system is right now Is like see they want those people to suffer they want it because that's all we offer them right now That's all the only thing that we offer people who are suffering who are hurting who have been seriously seriously seriously hurt Is Just lock them up make them pay make them suffer. That's all we offer as an option That's all they're shown. That's all they can see We don't show them other options and as I've said So many times and I will I will keep saying I will keep saying it because it is my it's part of my um that's part of What I have to live with after after having after having killed someone is that um I would have done what like Working with the victims family if I had actually had Like if it had been restorative justice and like I've been able to work with the family And figure out what they actually needed from me And what I could help them with And like I would have never paid my lawyer. I would have never paid to go to court I would have never paid any of that. I would have given them all the money I would have If they needed me to Build them the casket if they needed me to build them Whatever they need me to do whatever if they I would have done anything for them All right, because I wronged them I don't care about the state of texas That's not who I wronged. I wronged that family and his friends and the people he cared about the state That's that I don't care about texas now. My feeling is texas is wronged me That's That's a whole different story. But that's but like But the family the family I have forever wronged. I have forever hurt and then because of Of this whole thing that we have the way it's set up of like we need to punish people as hard as humanly possible Now there's this giant rift And then and there'll I Don't see any way that there can be that we could ever work back to that place Where we could actually work together and figure it out and do that Maybe maybe you that's something else you can hit on right now tonight. I mean you and I both have attended classes that were about uh That were that were put together by people who were the victims of crimes that that Decided that they wanted to go and talk to criminals because they realized that that the uh the resentment and the The anger that they harbored inside toward them Was something that was actually harmful to them. It was an emotionally uh psychologically Harmful thing and that for them to be able to meet with them into we actually be able to come to a conclusion of forgiveness towards them was a Released them from a great deal of pain that they were suffering through and and Gave them a very a new Lease on life so possibly you could explain that that aspect to it through this medium and and potentially somewhere along the lines That revelation may come may come about may come about them that And do and do others Well, and I will say something so what Malone is talking about is bridges to life that we it was a program that Was not part of the prison churches actually had to bring that like basically force feed that down to the prison and it's proven that one thing about bridges life which I'm to be all fair and honestly like I kind of I'm not a huge fan of it But the idea behind it. I really like of it's bringing victims and criminals together and it's trying to get them to to empathize With like it tells victim stories and brings um and then like the victims hear the side from the from criminals And it's incredibly it is incredibly important. It is incredibly important that work and What you're saying Malone is is something Important to hit on and then I need to hit on one more thing and then we're going to have to wrap up soon um is that Is that basically They did something else outside of the system And then they got they when they go everyone who comes in there and tells a story They talk about how they came in here. They told a story they did They they came in and they did you know They did this thing and then all of a sudden they got this got something from it. They got something that helped them to heal But it wasn't they weren't getting that from just the criminal justice process And I've heard that time and the people who I've heard it on this american life. I've heard it in many different stories and avenues No one says oh this guy got sentenced got he got a capital Sentence and he was put on death row and now I feel free because you know because I watched him die Um in front of me. It's like no, I don't hear that story What I hear is when they actually get to hear and they get to work together and they actually get to see The other person empathize And they understand that the person empathizes with what happened And then they also get to hear that it wasn't just that it was just some callous mistake or just something like that Because it's generally there's more to it. There's way more to it for everyone involved And and they For everyone involved. Oh, hey, Dave is back. Yeah, um, but yeah, there's Families and victims have to go outside the system to get solace anyway And the other thing I want to point out this too you the reason we are talking about this is like What about people who just want criminals to pay we just want them to pay I don't care. Yeah, it's it's I don't want them to be rehabilitated. It's good for them. It'll teach them. It'll learn them This is what they don't want to learn about anything. They just want to hurt And uh makes me feel better Right and for all you good Christians or whatever you are who are saying these things um, I would I know I did. I well I say that because um, I'm coming I'm coming from texas and a lot of people usually Uh, a lot of people will preface whatever they're saying with that that they're a good christian and then they will say something horrible um, so No offense. There are I do know some really great christians and I'm friends with them and they know themselves They're listening to this podcast right now because they're awesome. They're awesome christians those Yeah, there's a difference between awesome christian and good christian. So anyway, every good christian should be listening to this Oh, thank you for that Okay All right, so good, uh, so anyway So they they are they want people to suffer and I say to that That you people who want want people to suffer and you think it's a great idea You're part of the problem. You're the reason that crime is is growing and that of shrinking. Well I mean really You wonder why You wonder why that um, you you sit there and you say, you know, this person should suffer this person deserves what they get blah blah blah blah They deserve whatever and then you wonder why someone Has gets it in their head. They're like, you know what this person He deserves desire. I'll kill them. I deserve their money. I'll take it They deserve, you know, they deserve to be beaten. I'm gonna beat them This woman, you know, this person deserves to be kidnapped. I'm gonna do it Right, so you're basically just instilling them that you can decide all of the rules And then you if as long as it makes sense in your head Then it's then it works and the thing is that's not how that's not how morals work morals are They're right. They have to be right. They're a standard that we all have to live by And you can't just say someone deserves whatever It's it they just what people deserve is to be listened to to be to be taking case by case and to be treated individually and some and They also deserve help no matter what situation they're in and just and despite whatever bad behavior It's just like a little kid like if they're a little baby and they They babies do all sorts of horrible things all of the time, you know If I if a grown adult goes in the middle of the room and shits themselves Well, you know That's an awful thing babies do it all the time and we correct them I don't know why we take that And Right those babies have been getting away with it for years But we can change grown divers Some but we malone and I have both seen grown men that don't have much more meant better mentality than babies And they think they know what everyone deserves too So you know what? What I say is everyone deserves some kindness and some help and some respect And I think that's where we need to wrap up the show tonight before Dave comes in with some more women And interrupts everything again So, um, I want to thank everyone for listening to the show Um, if you want an awesome hoodie like a shakedown hoodie like this you can always go to waywardpress.com and get an awesome shakedown hoodie and um and then malone and I will be at fan expo in Denver and Um, hopefully doing some more panels this year Hopefully they'll be doing a bunch of awesome comic related panels this year And uh, yeah and more But what would you like to say malone before we go before? Had nothing to say other than you know, a beautiful person Dave what would you like to say? Beautiful person. I would like to say that Although it has been a very frustrating day. I apologize for not being more available to podcast today But you know, you're beautiful people Well, and we'd like to thank Dave for the use of his microphone that actually works So I've never sounded better and my dog. Oh, and and The lovely Nina my soulmate Hey, come here. Hold on. You heard it here first, folks Nina Oh, Nina. All right We just got a whole new fan base. Thank you for you got we got the dog fan base the cute puppy fan base. So, yeah Uh She's coming over to say hi to everybody Nina's gonna be on the camera, girl. Nina look look at you On camera. Oh, she wants to lick me. I know it. I love you too, Dave. You're on. Thank you This is why they're soulmates. All right, everyone from everyone What's that? She drinks toilet water and yet she likes Malone's face gross. I mean I have no doubts that Malone drinks toilet water too from time to time Um prison water can't be much better. So yeah, yeah fair All right, I really drink toilet water ladies No No, I had a really really smart comment for that one, but I'll leave it alone Ladies, uh ladies ladies and Denver. I'm sure this will be coming up about the time this podcast comes out But Malone will be in Denver and There you go. Yeah, so look out. I know it's hard to believe I'm still single It is hard Nina's trying her best Even though I may look you may look like a hobo Uh, yes, yes, and with that everyone thanks. Thank you everyone from the shakedown and good night. Thank you everyone tonight The shakedown was produced at Longmont public media And our theme song shakedown Was brought to you by Envato elements If you want any shakedown merchandise or you want to support the show You can go to waywardpress.com. That's w a y w or d press dot com