 So Helsinki! Oh my god, it's so great to be back at Slash and couldn't there be a more amazing guest than having Nico with me? Thank you so much for being with us today, Nico. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, so I'm half finished. So that was all the finished words that I know with those two. So it's a pleasure to come back a bit to my roots here in Helsinki and so cool that. I mean, greatest startup event in Europe is here and I've been here now since yesterday. It's fascinating. Amazing. Now you always spoil at half of my intro, but fair enough. You know, normally you would say a world champion needs no introduction. In this case I really really disagree because there's so much more behind the person, Nico Rosbeck, than you could ever guess from the outside. He's an incredibly humble person, very determined. He's a father, a family father. He's an active angel investor. He's a sustainability entrepreneur and so much more. So I can't wait really going going deeper into those conversations today and and really the background of your life and actually like athletes, entrepreneurs face so many extreme situations every single day and in the end it's always about one thing. It's about human performance and it's about the determination to win. I would really love to dive into this because you have had to perform at the maybe most competitive environment. Someone could think about Formula One. So let's jump right in, but maybe before you were a Formula One world champion, take us back to when you were a teenager and you had to make the decision to go all in on racing and maybe people don't know that Nico got accepted to so many Ivy universities, Ivy League universities like Imperial College for aeronautics. You were playing tennis for the Monaco tennis team, so how was that decision to go all in 110% on racing back then? Yeah, well, thank you very much for the for the introduction. Yeah, I mean it was a difficult decision mainly because all of my best friends were going down the usual path of going to the university and I think that would have been also pretty cool, but of course my racing was really kicking off and it's really the the winning that obviously helped with that decision because I saw, okay, I'm really good at this. Maybe I can make a career out of this. So it was carting back then or was it basically cart racing? Okay, and so of course then when the winning happens that really grips you and grips me and I thought okay, wow, this can work and so that's really what helped me essentially to make that decision. Then also my father, of course, some of you from the older generation will know him, so he was a he's a Finnish Formula One world champion as well and he of course also really supported me and encouraged me to go down the route of being a racer myself. I have actually great respect for this decision because if you're, you know, I come from a family, my father was the world champion, my father wasn't like a venture capital investor, so every decision I made was basically out of my, I don't know, humble background experience, but if your father has already been a world champion and then taking that step to say, okay, I compete now in the same class, I have great respect for this. Speaking about becoming a world champion, I mean, we all know Formula One and we all know how close those races are and there, I don't know, is it 16 drivers now in the in the field? What, if you had to summarize it in the time that we have, what element really separates achievers from almost achievers and makes you a Formula One champion winning against Louis Hamilton in the same team, the world championships? Yeah, so this is where where I think I can relate so much to all of you who are who are founders actually, so I was speaking also, I had the honor just to meet Peter from Adion yesterday. I think maybe you're in the audience, Peter, can you can you raise your hand if you're there? There's a pizza. There you go, okay, amazing. So and I really saw and I saw the synergies there like between a great founder and someone who can win in sports and there's a couple of things like one thing is of course this insane focus on what you are doing, you know, and really eliminating absolutely all distractions possible from around you. So back in my time when I was fighting for the championship, you would not have seen me using social media. I deleted all the apps, there was nothing there. I never looked at media also because it's a killer because they write about you and that's a disaster like you don't want to go down that rabbit hole. So just absolute focus with an incredible intensity to your next goal, to achieving that next milestone and to preparing in the best possible way. And so then when it comes to preparation also, that's something that I love to talk about and it's the point about marginal gains. So really focusing on also taking the small details and nailing them. And so there's a nice example in F1, one kilogram of our body weight was 200, no it was 300th of a second slower per lap. So if I was, if I had a big, big summer with eating ice cream, I came back one kilo. One kilo because 300 milliseconds is a lot. Which is almost two seconds of race time. We improved position in number six or something. Exactly, it's almost two seconds of race time. So it was that insane. But of course I couldn't be super skinny because I needed power at the same time. And so for example, just the attention to detail that I was trying to get to, I had a black helmet because the helmet paint was 80 grams. So I was the only guy with a black helmet. Then I cut, I even cut my socks. I did everything I could. I put Swiss cheese holes in my carbon seat where it was non-structurally like relevant. Finally, I even stopped road cycling. So I was a big road cyclist and I realized that damn, I got these really heavy leg muscles. I got to get rid of those because that could be at least, that could be 500 grams or something like that. So I stopped road cycling as well. And in fact, I did manage to lose with the helmet, the leg muscles and everything that one kilogram. And then we come to after the summer and it's qualifying in Japan. And we're really neck on neck with Lewis Hamilton, who was my teammate at Mercedes. The two of us were fighting for the championship. We were equal on points. 2016 after the summer break, last lap, he puts in pole position. I come around and like 10 seconds after him and I beat his time by two hundredths of a second to get pole position. And that was the paint, the leg muscles, which is like looking back now. It's pretty amazing. And then after that, four races later, I was world champion. So it was so much on the edge, on the details. And really it was that focus, attention to detail that made the difference in the end. And I think a lot of you founders can really relate with that. And it can certainly help to achieve great things. It's incredible to see this determination. I hope you guys don't stop cycling now and everything because I know Peter loves cycling and he comes from the Netherlands. But I think, as you mentioned, there are a lot of parallels to founders because the founders we love backing are founders that are obsessed about product. They have sleepless nights to think about every detail, every feature of the product. And it's basically every day you have to solve 1,000 problems. You have to be a perfectionist about it. And I think what if we look at Formula One, like this drive to perfection, this obsession to think about every gram that you can save to win. And it's exactly those milliseconds that make the title against someone like Lewis Hamilton. I think at startups it can be sometimes the same thing. If you launch products, you have competition. You need to be so focused on every detail and obsessed. If I think about this, this looks super nice from the outside. I mean, you've been 10 years in Formula One, 30 years in racing, but mentally, how can you deal with such a situation? And let's just take the Formula One time for 10 years. I mean, how did you find mental balance? How did a day of Nico Rosberg look during that time? Yeah, so in focus, of course, that work-life balance is part of the equation. Otherwise, in a couple of years, you will not be able to perform at your best level anymore. In F1, it was in a couple of races because it was just so much more in the moment intense. But for some of you, it will be over a little bit longer period of time. And so that work-life balance also, I think, is very, very important to find that time. For me, I have two kids now. They're six and eight, so it's become even more difficult. But yeah, it's critical, really, because you can gain so much energy back by spending time with friends and family and making time for that. It's so crucial. Let's speak a bit, because you mentioned Lewis, and let's speak a bit about rivalry and the positive and the negative elements of it. Because I think you, I mean, when you were car racing, you were already racing with him. Then you went into Formula One, and then, I mean, the peak of it is being in the same team, having the same car, competing every single day. What does this do with a human? Because how can you describe this relationship? Are you friends? Are you frenemies? Without Lewis, maybe wouldn't you have the level that you have? Because you always have this thing on your shoulder that there is this other guy that is also great, and then he just got the best out of you. How can you describe that relationship? Yeah, so with Lewis, we were actually best friends. We were young. We were 13 years old, best friends racing. But then in F1, there's so much at stake that it just became quite quite an extreme, like even, you would say, enemy. It went to that level, and it was just so fierce. One guy would use more engine power than was allowed. The other guy would run to the Stewards and tell the Stewards, hey, you need to investigate him, because I saw he did something wrong under the yellow flag. Don't do this among your startup competitors. Maybe you have to. And this is between, in the team, it's between teammates. So it was incredibly tough to manage. But of course, that was also a big driving force then, to have that rival. It pushes you to dimensions and motivations that you think you didn't even have. So it was very intense, to say the least. It's interesting, because a pattern we see with many of our founders that we back, and even VCs who are successful, is that they have something in their life that they just want to prove. Maybe it's a childhood experience that was negative, that they want to work against, or maybe it's a competition thing. And I also added it in my life. I founded a few companies, and then also, as you see, founded two venture capital funds and decided to start all over again. But this kind of competitive element maybe also got the best out of me, even though it's something that is, of course, also a daily challenge. If we look at that career, you know, I think you were 31. Let's imagine you're Nico Rosberg, you just won against Lewis Hamilton, the world championship. You likely get another 100 million as an offer to stay in Formula One. You're on top of everything. Why the hell did you stop? Or what was the situation back then? Like how did it feel to make this decision to say this is it with Formula One? Yeah, so the 100 million was not an offer. It was actually a signed contract. Oh, you signed it, okay. Yeah, yeah. So it was even worse than that. I would have done it for you. You should have let me know. I was doing carding when I was a kid, so you should have called me back then. My dad was a little bit, how should I say, shouting on the telephone to me, like, are you crazy? You can't stop now with that contract for a couple more years. So the decision was, and again, I'm sure many of you, especially founders, will be able to relate. It was just so intense and such a struggle. I mean, the fun part just got smaller and smaller and smaller, because just, I mean, you become that person also. Yeah, you become that race driver or you become that founder. It becomes your identity completely. And even worse or even more extreme for us is that it, we're watched by hundreds of millions of people every moment and judged on split seconds. And if you're a split second too slow, you're a loser. Yeah, and my problem was I had the best of all time next to me in the same car. So, and he was beating me for like, I think it was almost eight, 17 years in a row, kind of. He was beating me. He was, He was a massive applause that he in 2016 never gave up, never, never, ever gave up to beat Lewis Hamilton and become a world champion. I think it's a great lesson as well, but sorry. Yeah, so it definitely required some tenacity to keep going. But it's such a, it turns into such a fear of failing then also. Yeah, I remember, I remember my last race and we're like 20 laps from the end. The championship was on the line and my engineer tells me in the ear, he says, you're going to have to pass Max Verstappen in the next three laps, otherwise you will lose the championship. So this is him in my ear now. And this is like, this is crazy hard to pass Max Verstappen. And so I'm trying to, trying to get this done. And as I'm, as I'm getting this done and I'm overtaking, I suddenly feel my foot jumping on the throttle pedal from so much fear, being so scared that I'm going to mess up and lose my, the opportunity to achieve my dream in that moment. And it might never come back because you never know, you need the best car to have a chance to win the championship. You don't know if you're going to keep on having the best car. So my foot was jumping on the throttle because I was so scared. It was shaking so much. And then you go into a real spiral because you think, okay, I can't even drive properly anymore. You know, my foot is out of control. And I never had that in my life before. I never will have again in my life. That's certain. So it was that insane, the intensity, the struggle for me. And that's why then when I achieved that dream of winning in that sense, it was just a great moment for me to say, you know what, it's been a super career. It's actually also risking my life out there. So it's very dangerous. So actually it feels like the right moment to go for, in your words, the exit. So it was a good exit. And looking back now for myself, it was the right decision. To some extent, even the mental health is on the line in that moment, you know, because if the whole world is telling you, hey, you don't have what it takes to win, you're a loser, kind of, it will get to you eventually, you know? So it's a, it's a, and I'm sure a lot of you founders can relate with that. Yeah. And so that was my reason really for exiting. And for me personally, it was a good choice. And I'm very happy to be now here on the stage at Slush. I was just saying that that was just the start of Niko's career, the actual things we're talking about in the next 10 minutes. But first and foremost, thanks for sharing these transparent moments with us. I think I have great respect for making such a decision. And I think it's also learning, you know, venture capital and the startup ecosystem is such a high performance environment. And let's be very honest. It's a lot of pressure for every founder. If every VC tells you it's a 10 billion plus company, it's the minimum you need to achieve. So you're basically putting yourself almost into a loser game, right? Because you can almost not achieve this, but then also having the obsession and the conviction to fight for this. But I think it's a, it's a very honest and great learning from yourself that you did that 10 years and you did that, you know, far longer before in carting, but also being honest to yourself, challenging your life every now and then, zooming out and saying, okay, I'm not 31. I have a family that I'm building. And is this really what I want to do the next 10 years? We'll get into it in a minute that actually this was not a finishing of a career was actually a lounge pad of an amazing new career. But maybe if we talk a little more about this human performance element, where do you see the parallels to founders? Because a lot of the things you're just described are things that we see every day in founder life. In a way, founders are athletes, right? Because they're in an extreme situation. They run their companies for 10 years, for 15 years. I spoke with Nate from Airbnb three weeks ago. He's running Airbnb now, I think for 15, 16 years still. And I have great respect for everyone who still has the energy after such a time. But where do you see the parallels between an athlete and an entrepreneur? And also, what do you bring to the table when you're back an entrepreneur as an angel? Very important, of course, is also to have that courage and to push into discomfort because that's where you grow as an individual, as a company. So that's a direct also synergy with us athletes. But at the same time, of course, understanding the risk that you're facing and managing that accordingly. I had to risk manage all the time because my life was at stake. And I'm seeing that now with founders as well, very, very clearly, that they're always spending a lot of time in analyzing and understanding the risk that they're facing and then managing that, mitigating that. That's a common trait also amongst the best founders. Is there a typical advice that you give founders that VCs others don't give founders how to deal with those situations or things? No, no. I mean, generally, I just like to exchange those thoughts because you can always learn when you tell the personal stories and exchange. And that's always when it's the most interesting. I loved our conversation a week ago when we were speaking about regeneration and having infrared sounders and really bringing your body performance to the top. And I think it's interesting that keeping that balance because you told me a lot about Formula One and all the things you do on the side. I mean, on TV, we only see the race and we think, okay, those people are flying over and then they're driving the car and they're flying home. But I think that's like one percent of your life because you're doing so much sports, so much other mental trainings. We already mentioned that that was finishing your Formula One career was a launchpad to start a career that I think is incredibly successful so far, but it's just starting to get exponential to be an angel investor, a sustainability entrepreneur. And you're taking this to the next level and we can speak maybe a little bit about it if you allow us what you're planning on the VC side. But maybe you can explain a little bit about those activities that you're doing now and how you're basically bringing your experience to the world of venture capital and startups. Yeah, no, I really enjoy the VC space. Fascinated by the opportunities that there are there available now, like Mobility, which is my home. The disruption that is happening there is almost comparable to the horse to the car. The change, it's huge. So I really enjoy being involved in that change, which is also a change for good. Electrifying is going to bring a lot of good to us as a society on the planet. So it's awesome. And so I'm an angel investor, especially at seed stage. And the way I help because I'm not just passive capital, I really try and support the founders we work with. And mainly my angle is that I have, of course, now quite a strong sea level network in Europe. Thanks to my past, I built that up because all the corporates are sponsors of Formula One. So I've built up a really strong network where I can then connect the startups with the sea levels and that really adds value. They can become customers. So that's been quite successful as of late. We even have one example, one of our portfolio companies. We managed to put them in touch with SAP, which worked well and was very, very fruitful. So that's kind of our angle of being a value at, which is important. No, I can only seriously kind of, and this is not advertising, but we're invested in many companies together, whether it's VAE, whether it's even B2B software companies, where, you know, sometimes founders ask in the beginning, why should I take on board a sports person? You know, there are a few sports people or celebrities that invest in venture capital or founders and then you never see them. Niko has been in those investments that we're doing very often quoted as the most active angel really supporting the founders, whether it's sea level introductions. You mentioned SAP for the software company. So it was basically a call to the CEO of SAP. Now they're basically teaming up together to sell products. But I think also this mental part, like that kind of coaching that you can give founders, because there haven't been many VCs or angels that have been in Formula One and have gone through such a mental stage. I think that's super impressive. Robert, let's go to you. I'm sure the audience would love to hear from you as well. You are the best VC out of Germany. That's my personal opinion. I'm allowed to say that, right? So I'm sure everybody would love to hear from you too. What are you planning on building with Visionaries Club? I can say I'm a proud LP. I'm a proud LP, proud to be part of the journey. So what is your vision there? What are you building? Thank you. I'm humbled to hear that. Look, I think I would start maybe a level higher. If you look at myself, I was also starting a company before I was selling it. So I was an Operative Entrepreneur and then I did angel investing. And I just, if I was honest to myself and waking up on a Monday morning, I figured out my obsession, really my obsession was being an entrepreneur in VC. So it's not just investing. It's not going to VC fund being a partner. And it's not just building an operational company, but this element of building a new venture capital fund that in our case is only backed by entrepreneurs and a Formula One champion and a soccer world champion. But that's my obsession. I think that's what I'm trying to build every day. And with Visionaries, our idea is basically what separates us a little bit from other VCs is that we only have successful entrepreneurs as our investors. So we have 30 unicorn founders on the one hand side and we have 30 family entrepreneurs, which you can call the old economy. But it's so important that we, if we really want to build a new business model for Europe, we need to include the old economy. And I think if you look at software, bringing the customers together with the disruptors is something that personally, I have a strong believe in. It's what keeps me up at night, but we're very, in the early days of day one, so still building it. But thanks for your kind words. So speaking about what drives me, what keeps you hungry after, I mean, 10 years in Formula One, Formula One world champion, you retired when you were 31. What the hell still keeps you so hungry to wake up in the morning, spend so much time with the founders, 2,000 introductions to SAP and so on. You're always here in the podcast. We like founders that have a chip on their shoulder. I think, I mean, I don't want to compare myself, but I also have a chip on my shoulder. I want to achieve, I want to take on challenges, grow, do something significant, have an impact. There's a huge opportunity now to have an impact. We're seeing a slash like climate tech. Climate tech is exploding here, especially like this time round also, which is so great to see. So I think that's just keeping me going, that I want to do things, stay sharp. So it's exciting. That's great to see. And you'll ever see the Nikos Eisner. You can still, he always kept the boy in him. So he's kind of, there's so much energy. Maybe one last question or two last questions. I think there was once a Formula One driver who said you cannot overtake 15 cars in sunny weather, but when it's raining, I don't know if it was Ayrton Danner or Michael Schumacher or if it was even a right quote. If we look at the current world, there's a lot of rain. We've discussed it a lot. There's a lot of wars. There's a lot of, you talked about sustainability. If we take an optimistic perspective to turn adversity into advantage, what opportunities do you think can be born out of recent events? There is, I mean, it's incredible now how sustainability is starting to go hand in hand with profitability. And that is the new era we're entering now. And that is where exponentially, I think, the opportunity set is going to grow. And that's something I'm extremely interested in and extremely happy to see, essentially. And so I think also for all of us in the next years, you know, to be involved in that space is going to be extremely engaging. And I myself, an active climate tech investor, just did a flywheel. A flywheel is going to be like an energy storage, I mean, battery energy storage alternative for the grid. And it's going under the ocean. You see crazy business models popping up. That can work. You know, there are real investable business cases. So it's a fascinating time. That's great to hear, Nico. One last question. There are so many founders here. If you had to give an 18-year-old an advice, like one piece of advice after this insane career and all the things you've gone through, what one piece of advice would you give a young person now being in this world? I have a good one. So it's always go looking for mentors, find yourself the best possible mentors. I did that. In fact, one of my most important mentors was my, I would even say psychologist that I was working with. So I worked 10 years with a psychologist very, very closely, two hours with him every two days. Like it was more intense than the physical training. Just to find improvements, progress mentally, you know, and find improvement through the mental struggle. And it was like spectacular for me, not only for racing, but also for my life. So that was one of the mentor example for me. And that's what I would recommend to every 18-year-old here in the audience. Really hustle to find the best possible mentors for your journey. That would be very, very valuable. I'm sure many people will try to get you backstage now, but thank you so much. Well, champion, Nico Rosberg, thank you for being with us here in the heart of Helsinki, being 50% from Finland, 50% from Germany. Thank you so much for being with us. Today 100% Finland. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. Thanks.