 You know, socials are beautiful. The streaming is lovely, but you still want the streets. If it's that type of record, you still need it played in the club. You still need it on these mix tapes. You still need the DJs playing it in their mix shows. You still need these relationships. You know, even more importantly, what about when you don't have a breakout record? All right, before we get into this interview, want to appreciate y'all for watching the podcast week to week, and we wanted to do something special. Had a really great interview with a guy by the name of TJ Chapman years ago before we even started the podcast. We wanted to make sure you guys have seen it because he's the manager of B.O.B. Trap Becum. I'm talking about there for beautiful girls. I mean, plaque after plaque after plaque platinum records. And this guy gave the game on what it's like to manage an artist at that level, to help grow artists to that level, and what it really looks like to market for true success. So you're going to enjoy this interview, and I appreciate you hopping in to see it. But I'm going to go ahead and let some of y'all know. Corey's not in this episode. So if you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and comment, where is Corey? Where is Corey? Check out this episode. What's up everybody? Once again, it's Brand Man, Sean. And today, as you can see, once again, I got a very special guest for you guys. This is TJ Chapman, my bad. Goes by TJ's DJs on Instagram. He's manager currently for Trap Beckham and BOV. But this man's just, he's been in the game for a minute, so there's a will for knowledge. So I'm just going to get right into the interview, and you'll be able to learn some more about his credibility as things go. But trust me, there's going to be a lot of value out of this one. First, foremost, hey, thank you, TJ, for even doing this in first place. No, I appreciate you, man. I was wondering if I was going to get a call. I seen all the others. I was like, well, dang, what about your boy? So it was just ironic how we connected and everything. So I appreciate you reaching out. I definitely watch what you do, and I know a lot of my peers like what you do. So I'm glad to be on with you. So, hey, man, it's an honor to hear that, man. Like, just to get into things, right? You're a manager. You're successful by so many people's standards right now. But how did you start in the game? Did you come in as a manager? Did you even know you want to do music? Where'd that come from? I mean, I came in as a DJ. I started DJing when I was in junior high school. And then ended up going to college in Florida. I'm from Detroit, in Ohio, between Detroit and Canton, Ohio. And then I moved to Tallahassee to go to Florida A&M, FAMU to go to college. And then that's where I met Kurt. I met him my first day at FAMU, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've known him for 30 years. That's crazy. But so when I moved to FAM, I started DJing down here. And then it just went from me DJing on house parties to DJing campus events and DJing the big fraternity and sorority events to DJing the clubs. And then next thing I know, I got asked to come on the road and DJ with an artist named Beatmaster Clay D, who was like a Florida legend, Miami bass legend. And it just went from me being his road DJ to his road manager to his manager. And I always wanted to be in business. And I love DJing and I love music. But I wanted to be on the business side of things. I moved to Tallahassee to go to SBI, the School of Business at FAMU. So that was my whole goal anyway. But so just like figure out which business it was going to end up being. So how did you really learn from that first relationship and that first experience going out on the road and stuff like that? You know, hey, that's a funny question. I mean, I learned how to survive. I learned how to make it. I learned so much about being in the business and stuff that was required. But I tell you, the most important thing that I learned is as a young person wanting to get in this music business. And so many of us had the same aspirations. And we're just hungry and eager. Man. And this is a business where people would take advantage of you so bad. And so the most important thing that I learned is everybody ain't as nice as they seem. Everything ain't necessarily good. It looks good, ain't good. And you have to figure out how to pick and choose and deal with those situations. Because being so eager and being so hungry and just wanting to get on and just wanting to be like, man, people going to take advantage of you. And I definitely got taken advantage of. No names necessary, but it's a possible for you to maybe share one of those particular experiences where you were looking back and you were like, man, I was thinking differently. It wasn't so in the bright-eyed young phase. I would have never did that. I mean, something as simple as there being a historic event that started here in Tallahassee was Kappa Luau. It was an annual event. It grew to, I mean, man, craziness. But the first Kappa Luau, the person I was working with, worked it out with the Kappas and everything. So they were going DJ to Luau, provide the sound for the performances and the DJ, and then they were doing the after-party and written out to venue. And so me being Mr. Helpful Henry and wanting to help everybody, I let this person talk me into, first off, renting all the sound equipment and putting it in my name for the event. I just wanted to be down. And so it was like, shoot anything that I could do to be down and get cool, then that's what I was trying to do. I didn't think about the other stuff. And so I rented all the sound equipment that everybody used for the performances that it was used for the DJ. I rented out the club for the after-party and everything. And I tell you, man, I got jerked over. I never seen none of that money back. Godly. And I was just a young college student, you know what I'm saying? Just trying to get on, man. Trying to figure it out. Trying to figure it out. And man, I still got them outstanding bills. Last stuff. But the funny thing is you live and learn, you know what I'm saying? And from all that stuff and from being taken advantage of, it was a whole bunch way more than that. But learning that stuff, it taught me how to better deal with people and how to better deal in situations where I feel a person isn't right. You know, you don't necessarily have to say something just because you see it. When all situations always understand, what is it that you want to achieve from this relationship or what you want to get out of this relationship or business venture or partnership or whatever it is. And if whatever reason you realize that those people ain't necessarily right and they are trying to take advantage and get over on you, you know, as long as you realize it and can see it, you can still use the situation to your advantage and you can play it against them. When you don't say nothing, they get more and more careless with it because they don't think that you're smart enough to figure anything out. And so I've used plenty of situations to my benefit that I knew wasn't right for me just because I knew what I was dealing with going in and what I wanted to achieve and get out of it. So that's like really looking at situations where, you know, we look at fame or capital gain. Those are like the two main measurements that people look at. But you're saying, you know, it might be a scenario that might not be great financially or a good look. There's some way that you see it could benefit you, whether it's a relationship or whether it's just knowledge that you learn, something like that. I'll put you in position to make that next move or whatever it is. You know, at the end of the day, you got to remember it's really a game of chess. And you got to be strategic with all your moves. I mean, man, we've played chess so many times, not even in this situation, just in situations with the labels and everything else. But you got to be really smart. And you got to think a lot of this stuff out and understand how it works so you can best benefit. So, I mean, when I hear something like that and being able to take advantage of those situations on the way that might not look good in the short term, you really have to understand what your goal is, your greater goal is to even do something like that, right? You got to see the big picture. And I tell you, that's the biggest problem a great majority have. They're so small-minded and short-sighted that they don't see it. They don't even understand what the big picture is. They're so caught up in perception and how they perceive things to be from what they think other people are doing that they're just so wrong and misguided to begin with. So, when you say think other people are doing, that just, like, there's an ignorance when people, when it comes to just dealing with the music industry or entertainment in general, just from, like, when you're a little kid, right? There's not even getting real deep about it. It's just like, when you're a little kid and you're saying stuff on TV, you have no idea that it's nowhere near like the magic it is. It's a real industry, right? It's a real business. So, like, what was a moment that you, or what are some of the bigger moments for you when it came to you, like, realizing, like, oh, this is how this shit really works? Uh, man, one of my first major deal. I did my first major deal was with Island Records in 1993. It was an artist named Prince Raheem. He was out of Miami. He was the first solo Miami bass artist to get a major deal. Once again, once again, where I'm telling you, I was that nice guy. I was so happy to have a major deal. I think I was 20, I was 22. I was 22. And dog, I just wanted to be everybody's friend, bro. Like, I just wanted to get along with everybody, I wanted everybody to like me. I wanted to be their friend. I wanted to go above and beyond. But, man, I became the scapegoat for so many people and so many things dealing internally with that major label. And I didn't know how to deal. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know how to deal. I didn't know how to cover my ass. I didn't know, I didn't understand paper trails and know how that stuff worked and how to use that stuff against them. So my A&R person sat down and talked to me one day and he was like, man, I see what's going on. I know that you mean good. I know you didn't do that. I know you didn't do this. He was like, but you have to understand how to play the game so people can't throw you under the bus like that. And so you can always have some type of paper trail and documentation. So you can, if they do, you can flip it and actually reverse it on them. And I had to learn the hard way, but I learned how to make notes of every conversation and what was said and dates and times and what was supposed to be done and what wasn't done and kept a journal. And then one day I ended up having to, because they made me look so bad. And so one day I had to go ahead and use all that and he was real cool with Chris Blackwell who owned Island Records who found Bob Marley and everything. And so I sent an email to Chris documenting everything, everything, the dates, the times, everything that wasn't done, everything that they were supposed to, everything that they said wrong and laid it all out. And you know, that person got fired. Sheesh. But it taught me how to deal in corporate business. You know what I'm saying? It taught me how to maneuver in that corporate system with people that prey on eager beavers like me. Got you. That paper trail thing is definitely something I think is a value for people to learn when it comes to, I mean, you know, that most people coming into music, at least on the hip hop side that, you know, that I know a lot of aspiring artists, you know, they're not necessarily even going to school even if they are going to school, that dealing with corporate is different than going to school, right? Yeah. I think that's a real, that's a valuable thing to learn. So when you, But you know what is different now? Because you have a paper trail with basically everything. You know what I'm saying? You have a digital trail, whether it be with the text messages, whether it be with the emails, the DMs, the social, whatever it is, there's actually a trace of everything except your phone conversations. So nowadays there's a paper trail with almost everything. That's right. So it's a whole lot easier. I know I'm telling my age, but it's definitely easier. Let's take a quick second to talk about the elephant in the room. If you're an artist trying to grow, we already know what your goal is, a thousand true fans. Everybody talks about it, but how do you actually make that happen? How do you get those fans? It's not just about getting views. You gotta push people further down the funnel. So let's talk about it. Number one, do you have these people's data, right? Do you have the ability to text and build highly engaging relationships with these people? Can you boost your Spotify plays to actually have engaged users, not those surface level play-listing plays? Well, guess what? Fever Fan is a platform that allows you to do all of those things in one. So it's not overwhelming. You don't have to switch and have all these different logins and switch all your LinkedIn bios. You have even a LinkedIn bio tool that you can do. So everything is done in one place. So not only do you grow your fans, you do it for less work. How about that? Check out foreverfanmusic.com because we know it's not about views for the day. It's about getting fans who will be there forever. Foreverfanmusic.com. Let's get back to this video. And so, I mean, you've been in it so long and I know you've gotten so many lessons. When was the first time you were in a management situation where you really felt like the artist was taken off? Was that B.O.B. or was that something earlier than that? I mean, the first time that I was in it, okay, my first situation in management where the artist was really, I mean, all my artists did well. You know, they were more regional, my early on artists. No matter fact, the first dude that I ever managed, he's big time nowadays. He goes by the name of Rob Hardy. Him and Will Packer started a company called Rainforest Productions here in Tallahassee, Florida, and then Will Packer was a DJ and TJ's DJ's record pool. He was a DJ on the radio station here at FAMU 90.5. But yeah, yeah, Rob was the first dude that I ever managed. He was the director and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him and Will killed a gang. And I don't know where I was going the way I even said that. But talking about management, ask me the question again. Well, yeah, just a good way to say it is, one of the first time you really felt like you were winning and killing it in one of your management situations. Well, the first time I felt like I was winning and killing it was with B.O.B. Okay, gotcha. I didn't, I never managed T-Pain. I tried to sign T-Pain to my label Wild Style back in the day. And then I tried to come in on the management side also later on with his father, Brother Shaheed. But I just broke the sprung record on a national, regional, national basis and helped get him his deal, gave his music today. And our person meant to sign him a job records. But I didn't necessarily manage him. But that was my first breakout anything in the world and I knew it, you know what I'm saying? And so I got so many things that came from my involvement and from everybody seeing and knowing what I did with that. But the first time my actual management was by, but go ahead. Well, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because what does it take to break a record? I know it is different as far as, technologies change, a lot of things are always changing, some things are subjective to the artist, all that stuff in general. Like what can you say as far as what you learned from breaking a record? And now you've been around several records that have broken. She had several. BOB has 14 and RIA certified. That's just one artist, brother. Just one artist now. I see an Australia plaque over there with five certifications. I see this Canada plaque with eight certifications. And we were a wide nut, but yeah, my fault didn't mean it in a rough, it was more than a couple. Hey, we're sure, we're sure. But yeah, I mean, okay, so are we talking about in today's, with today's music as far as how to break it today? Because it was different back in the day, definitely totally different back in the day. What would you say today? And maybe how it's different. Okay, I mean, the biggest thing for me is it's like, you got some people to come from the old school of working and setting up and breaking records. And then you have people to come from the new school that are more digital, social media driven, content influencer driven. For me, I like to use a combination of both because when it comes to these songs, you don't know. I mean, you can have a, I mean, I got an awesome ear and I can hear a record and I can tell you what it is. But I don't always know what's gonna connect with the people, you know what I'm saying? And so many times you have to figure out how to put the music out there and give it life to even see. So with breaking records nowadays, I mean, the quickest way is streaming, you know? Getting on Spotify, getting on Tidal and Apple Music and all these very streaming platforms. And it's one thing to be there, but there's a hundred millions, however many songs there besides yours. So now that you're there, people have to find you. So the best way for people to find you and discover you and the best way for your music to spread when it comes to streaming is playlisting, getting on these various playlists. A lot of people get the playlists and stuff confused. They really don't understand it. They don't know what the word means. And when you start talking playlists and just using Spotify, for example, you know, there's multiple levels of playlists. Most people want to start at the highest level and go for your rap caviar, which is the largest playlist there is. If you get on that playlist, you're gonna be on that playlist 30 to 60 days. And from being on that playlist, you're gonna get millions of streams. And so everybody wants that, you know? Cause that, you get on rap caviar, you gone. You out of there. But, you know, you can't be on all these types, on these top playlists. And when it comes to playlists, and I was just talking about the different levels, you got to understand who puts these playlists together. And those are called curators. Curators are like the modern DJs. They're like the modern A&Rs. These playlists are like the new modern global radio stations, you know? But you got the curators. And the curators are the ones that put the playlist together. And that's who you reach out to to get your music on these playlists. Where there's gonna be different levels. The biggest playlists across the board are the Spotify curated playlists. Or even on Apple Music, the Apple Music curated playlists, the playlists that they curate themselves. They have different people in the building that are responsible for picking the music for those playlists. And it's up to you to get on their radar. It's up to you to try to find out who they are and build relationships with them. So you can get on these playlists. But if they don't know you and you really don't have nothing going on with your record, just not gonna throw you on the top playlists like rap caviar. So then how does that work? Well, then there's other levels of playlists. So then you got playlists that are ran by different brands, whether it be a magazine or your favorite drink or whatever it is. But then they have those levels of playlists. Then you have smaller levels of playlists. There might be individual DJs and key people like that. And then on your favorite blog sites, everybody has playlists nowadays. And it's just a matter of finding out who the curator is for each of those playlists. And then you started the lowest level playlist, which is just people like me and you. You know what I'm saying? Your friends, your mom might have her little workout playlist that she adds her favorite songs to. Your dad might have his Saturday barbecue playlist that he puts the songs on whenever he's cooking out on Saturday, he's gonna run that playlist. But the lowest level are the easiest playlists for you to get on. But so many people neglect that and they're so concerned with getting on these top playlists that they really don't stand a chance to get on right now to begin with. That they don't even try to get on the lower. And so the key is getting on these lower playlists, stepping to your friends, stepping to your family, stepping to all your followers and getting them to add your music to their playlists. The personal playlist, that alone shows activity with your music and that activity is seen by the Spotify algorithm. You know what I'm saying? And so when they start seeing activity, it's not a matter of the levels, it's the activity. And when they start to see the activity, you getting on these different playlists, then their algorithm is gonna start adding you to playlists itself. You know what I'm saying? But so many people shoot for the top and don't realize and don't target all these other levels of playlists. So streaming, that's one of them. So that's just one example from the streaming side. But streaming is so key. Another thing is probably one of the top forms of marketing right now is influencer marketing. Everything is about the socials. And I think fans, consumers, DJs, shoot, everybody has such a short attention span nowadays because of social media and everything just moves and comes so fast, I say everybody has ADD. So when it comes to pushing out a new song to these people, you can't just, okay, make a post with the song in the background and now you've posted that and you think that's gonna stick. There's a million other songs that's coming out today on somebody else's socials the same exact way. And so you have to figure out how to get this stuff to stick with the people until they remember it, until they know it, until they fall in love with it. And influencers are one of the best ways to do that. You can pay an influencer to go ahead and do something with your product, whether it's a song, just say it's a song, okay, now you pay it whether it's a big twerk girl that all she does is twerk, but she has millions of followers that watches all her twerk videos, okay, well, yeah, they're not watching her to hear your song, but they're watching that. And when they're watching that, they're hearing something. You know what I'm saying? And as long as they're hearing it, that's good. And it's just all about the repetition. And so you get a big influencer, okay, so we had a big influencer do something, he posted, but because he posted, this person posted, next thing I know, it's on Worldstar, you know what I'm saying? So that influencer video had a good 10 million views. So all them views, they heard the song. They might not realize they're hearing the song, they might not realize what it is, but it's the repetitionist is getting familiar, you're okay, then now you have another influencer do something, you know? And then all of a sudden, they're hearing that same song. Again, I had an artist call me the other day and he's a rapper now. He's a rapper, he's a street rapper, but he called me and rap every word of my artist, my other artist, Trap Beckham's verse. And he knew it not because he tried to learn it, but because there's so much activity going on the socials with that song in the background, that he just automatically learned the words, not even trying. And that's what I'm talking about, the repetition. You know, so the influencers are really good and it's a great way to break your records because it's getting it heard. And it's not requiring radio, it's not requiring the DJ to play it. And you get the right influencer to do it. You'll see everything grow. You'll see, okay, not only did that person get 10 plus million views, but the artist's Instagram followers shot up, poof, you know what I'm saying? The stream spike, poof. And it's like, okay, there's a huge ground swell all because it's one person made a video. You know what I'm saying? And so all that stuff helps. So that's the influencer side. You're trying to figure out ways to keep people, keep putting your song, keep putting your product or your brand or whatever it is in front of people so they keep seeing it, they keep hearing it. Then another way, you know, is challenges. Because once again, with the social media, it's all about content. And back in the day, I could just post one video or one whatever and people, it would stick with people, but nowadays I can't. So if I'm releasing a single, I'm trying to figure out a way that I can have at least three weeks of content built up so every day I can keep dropping something with that record so they keep hearing. And so that's content that I create. So now I'm jumping back to the challenges. The challenges are content with your music or whatever your product is. These are, this is content generated by fans and users. This is content that you don't have to create. It's created for free. And so they're posting it on their stuff or if they're using an app like Triller, which is great for challenges, it's man. Triller app, Triller, like T-R-I-L-L-E-R? Yeah, and you see all these people make videos with Triller. Man, Triller, man, man, shout out, Triller, man, I love y'all. You know, like just say the new single we did. And we got the challenge going. But on Triller, it's the feature challenge. I think it's 900 plus videos. I need to look again. It might even be more now. But it was a few million views. It was 3.4 million views of the challenge videos. So there's 3.4 million times that people heard the song, whether they was trying to hear the song or not. And so all these things are helping you get people, you know what I'm saying, familiar. So the challenge is you just repost their content. You know what I'm saying? So now you're showing love to the fans and so they loving you because you posting their stuff. So when you post it, they're gonna repost it again in their stories at least. But this is all content now that you have every day from other people that you can just post at your own song. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And so it's just sticking, you know? So okay, so now we hop from that side. You about to say something? No, yeah, I was just saying dope because, one thing I hear constantly from you is really I break it down into active and passive listening, like that active, like they're going to the song or the videos, the content might focus on the music, but then still hearing it subliminally in all these other ways too. So it sticks, like, and I know it works because I remember the first time, like you said that artist did. First time I realized that happened to me with a song was actually like ushers. Like if you're feeling your body, like somebody, like the- Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. I didn't know. I didn't know, like just on the radio when I was a kid and I looked saying the whole song through and I was like, I didn't even know I knew that song. I understand how that happens as well. And so people are traditionally done that with radio, you know what I'm saying? But now with social media, you can do the same thing, but you can control it. Yeah. So now I'm going to hop from the influencer and the socials and all that stuff. And I'm going to hop to the DJs. You know, so many people nowadays forget about the DJs, so many of these young artists because of social media and then become a social media stars and celebrities, you know, they may be able to bypass the DJs at first. And so many of these other artists are watching how these new artists are getting on, they're thinking that that's the wave, so they're following it too. The DJs are still so important and so key. You know, socials are beautiful, the streaming is lovely, but you still need to, you still want the streets. You know, you still, if it's that type of record, you still need it played in the club. You still need it on these mix tapes. You still need the DJs playing it in their mix shows. You still need these relationships. You know, even more importantly, what about when you don't have a breakout record? And then what you're going to do, you can't do nothing and you can't go run to them then, you know, so you need to build a relationship with these DJs so they can support you now as you're trying to win or even when you're not, but because you built that relationship and they like you and they mess with you, then they support you. I remember Trinidad James, Oh Gold Everything, you know, it broke on socials. You know, it broke with the video and went bananas. And I tell you, it broke so big, so fast. You know, he really didn't build his foundation in Atlanta with the DJs. And so after that Oh Gold Everything record, he, like I go do interviews with my other artists and we just be sitting there talking and they be talking like how he never came by the station, even when the record was high. You know, and so when he wasn't hot, you know, he couldn't go back to him like that. You know what I'm saying? And so many people don't understand the importance of that and these people, these people take it personal. But the DJs man, they're everything. And, you know, they're the frontline for me. You know, all my records for the most part have been broke by the DJs. And if I didn't have them, then I wouldn't have, I wouldn't be able to do none of this stuff that I'm able to do or have done. But the DJs are very important. You know, okay, a lot of people tell me they don't know how to get to the DJs or who the DJs are. You know, I think, oh, that's just so lame. You got social media right now. And really all you got to do is find the DJ. Find the DJ, whoever's a poppin, you ain't got no none. Whoever the poppin DJ is in your city, that you hear them shouting out on the radio, whatever, you ain't got to do nothing but go find him on Instagram. And then you can do something as simple as going and looking at who he's following. DJs a lot of times follow DJs. You know what I'm saying? So you can go look at who he's following and go through his following list and click on each DJ that he's following. You know what I'm saying? And go to their profile and follow them. And, you know, and if you want to and you're not feeling lazy today, like you might feel a lot of the times, you can also, on their profile, see a little button that says email. Or text, huh? Yeah, or message. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can easily send them a message in the DM with your song in the link, hint, hint, and then go back to their profile after you send a message and then click the email button. And then when it pops up in your email program, you're supposed to paste the same thing in there with the same damn link, all right? And then you copy the email address and after you copy the email address, you hit send and then you go to your notepad in your phone on your computer and you paste the email. And you can do that for each one. And before you know it, you have a full email list in whatever city and whatever area you want. So all y'all with that stuff, talking about what y'all can't do and not what you don't know. Man, y'all are just lazy and you don't even try. I just gave you some super game. But most of y'all don't even wanna put forth the effort. That's so true, like that same applies to influencers and other type of people you're trying to find. I have a lot of influencers and it's not even something you can really answer for somebody. It's like, what's the type of influencer that likes your type of music? But you gotta do the work of all that process right there, you gotta go through that process. Unless you gonna pay me a hefty sum, that's not what I do. But if I was gonna do a hefty sum to find it for you, cause that's a real, like it takes time. You gotta go do it if you want it. So that's, but it's easy though. It's not even like it's a game. It's just tedious, it's just tedious. But it's simple, a month, listen, you can train a monkey to do it, straight up. Yeah. It's just tedious and most people don't wanna take the time. And it really don't have to be even as tedious as it sounds if you know how to use technology. You know, and I'm just gonna give y'all some more games. So yeah, I told you to go and DM them the message. I told you to go and send them the email. But did you realize that, you know, if you have an iPhone, there's a thing called the little auto text thing. You know, and so that whole little sentence or phrase that you're gonna send them in the DM and in the email, you can create an auto text entry in your iPhone. You just go to what is it? General, then go to keyboard, then go to the text auto, I forgot what it's called and the text correction auto text, but then go in there and then you just put the phrase in and then just create a abbreviation, whether it's two letters. And every, and when you go to them DMs, you just type that two letter and then it's gonna fill out the whole sentence with the link and everything in there. You click through to the email, you type them two letters again, it's gonna fill out the email and you hit send. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so it can all be effortless, but once again, y'all gotta make the effort. So okay, so now then I was talking about the DJ standpoint with breaking records. You know, like there's so many ways that you can go at it and then an old school street method, you know, getting out in the streets, passing out CDs even though they're not as effective as they used to be and not useful in a lot of situations, but they still are useful in some, you know. So I still think it's good to have some CDs on you to be able to pass out, depending on what kind of event you at, making sure you go through the barber shops and the hair salons and making sure they have the music, go to the little corner stores and gas stations and making sure they have copies of the music to give out on the counters, you know, old school posters, but the standard old school street promo. And then last but not least, your social media promo in marketing. Not the content and the influencer stuff I was talking about, but more or less advertising. Man, Facebook is the cheapest, most cost effective way that you can advertise nowadays. And then Facebook owns Instagram and so it's like man, between the Facebook and Instagram marketing promo, you can put your stuff out and I know you talked to Jen, so I don't need to say too much because he's a guru, but between all that stuff and put your music in front of people, it's not even checking for you. Or even if it is like, and people don't realize, you know, you can set all this up through Facebook, you can use the Facebook as business manager and target and your ads, but the one option that you can get through Facebook that you can't get through Instagram, but it's your Instagram ads that you're setting up through Facebook, is you can target your ads at anybody that has engaged with your Instagram account in the last 12 months. You know, so just because somebody liked it or looked at a video, you know, they might have forgot about you and it's not that they ain't interested, they just don't know and they haven't seen anything. And it's funny to me, it's funny to me how many artists feel like advertising is cheating. They wanna be organic and advertising isn't organic. Well, you know how crazy y'all sound, man. You think Apple says that when they drop a new damn iPhone, huh? Oh, every brand. You think Atlantic says that with Cardi B? No, they put millions of dollars into the marketing to make sure they putting it in front of everybody, you know, but you have to put it in front of people so they can see it in the first place to make that decision whether or not they wanna listen. And it just trips me out how they feel like it's cheating or it's not right and man, that is business 101. At the end of the day, you have to figure out which of them you, how are you gonna, first off, you gotta find a place for it to live. Number two, you gotta figure out how you're gonna give it life. And I can't tell you none of that for sure. I'm gonna shoot at all these methods to try to find the right one. And if all of them work or whatever, that's the more the merrier. But I'm not limiting my odds, you know, in breaking this record. I'm gonna try to expose it every way possible. I'm gonna use all the methods that I told you to make sure I expose it to people till I find something to catch and this record actually gets life. It's weird that in the marketplace today is there's this big pushback or desire to be organic as if it makes things pure, right? And organic and marketing don't necessarily go hand in hand, because at the beginning it has to be artificial. I don't care if you didn't pay any money, but I asked you, the fact I asked you to listen to my song personally is me putting in some artificial effort to get you to listen. Like you wanna start or spark some organic, that's what you want your artificial marketing to do, but you gotta get that ball rolling. And there's so many people that are like, I'll do a video about an artist on the channel, for example, and someone might be like, oh man, this is fake or their industry plan or they paid or they had money. And it's like, you're talking about them for the methods they use, but they're on. They're where you wanna get. So try to use those methods as opposed to, I don't understand. But they're killing themselves up for sure. Artist pause for a second, because if you want to grow, you have to understand how to show your music to the right people, but also you gotta have a trap to capture those folks, right? You want to create fans. You wanna create stands and you want to have those fans forever, right? Well, to do that, you need to have a system in place. We have multiple growth systems that have been used to take artists to the Billboard charts, to take artists to the TikTok viral charts, to Spotify viral charts with their music. And if you wanna check them out, they're free on knowlabelsnecessary.com. Check out knowlabelsnecessary.com. If you wanna get access to them, wow, the network is still free. Hop in. With that being said, like what mentality or what do you seek for when you look at an artist that you wanna manage? Because obviously are you managed BLB, right? And I would love to know even how you became onto his situation because that situation is like unique for me because it was the first artist that I got to see personally go from, like he was just Bobby to me. He was a dude on the school bus. And then, you know, like dropping out of school, all that stuff I remember hearing and so we're seeing all that stuff. And then next thing you know, he like on TV for real and all that stuff, you know, like how did that happen? And what made you actually wanna manage him? You know, funny thing is, and I told this story and even on Tuesday night, my boy DJ Funk, he's with the coalition DJs. He called me, it was August 14, 2006. I was in Atlanta for the core DJ retreat. And he called me talking about, man, come to the club, come mess with me, man. You don't hang out with me no more. He's like, come on, man, stop sounding like that. No, man, you know, it's all a eyebrow. I'm gonna come to the club tonight. You know what, I'm gonna hang out with you. And so he's the only reason I went to club crucial, TI's club. And I wasn't there to see no talent. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know it was open mic. I didn't know nothing. All I knew was funky, wanted me to come to the club and hang out with him. So that's what I did. And I wasn't paying no attention to no groups. I wasn't into that, that ain't, you know what I'm saying? So, but then all of a sudden this kid performed. And it's like, he got my attention and I'm bobbing my head. Next thing I know, I'm waving my hand side to side. The next thing I know, I'm singing a song. And I'm looking at my son like, bro, what you doing, bro? Because I'm into it. And then I'm asking people next to me, you know, hey, who's dude? I don't know. Hey, what's their song? And I ain't never heard that before. So I'm like, okay. He's a landed radio and DJ. And they don't know who this is. So as soon as he got done performing, I walked down to the stage. It's like, hey bro, my name's TJ. You know, what's your name? He was like, BOB. I was like, do you have management? And the first thing that I seen when I was watching him on stage and I was waving my hand from side to side, singing along the song, all I could see in my head was that this was my makeup for T-Pain. You know what I'm saying? That's all I could think in my head. Okay, this your makeup for T-Pain. And this your makeup for T-Pain. This your makeup for T-Pain. And so I went down to Holladad and asked him if he had management. Then he was like, yeah. He pointed over there. And then next thing I know, here come be rich walking up laughing. And be rich managing, you know? And so then we talk. But I asked be rich, why are you laughing, man? He's like, why are you laughing? He's like, man, why are you like him now? You ain't never like him before. And I was like, what's your talking about? I ain't never seen the kid in my life, bro. And I ain't really like be rich a whole lot either, man. Oh, because he was funny. But, and he was like, what you mean you ain't know him? Man, I used to send you his music. I even tried to pay you to work his rent. And I was like, oh my God, what are you talking about? He was like, man, he was part of the clinic. I was like, hold on, the clinic? He was like, yeah, I was like, bro, the clinic sucks. I ain't really like the clinic though. He used to try to pay me to work the clinic, promote the clinics and email blasts out, whatever anything that I would do for the clinic. But I didn't like the clinic. So I wouldn't take his money and I wouldn't do nothing. Yeah. So Bob left the clinic. And when I seen him it was his first little solo performance at SBOB, first time he performed cloud nine. And I just happened to be there in the building and went down talk to him. We all linked, partnered up, week and a half later taking meetings, label deal meetings, label meetings with the majors. Month and a half later, October 3rd, 2006, his contract was signed with Atlantic Records. And it's been history ever since then. We're going on 13 years coming up in August. So it was playing here that was cloud nine because that was that joint for me back in the day. I used to play that, I used to play out in a lot, a whole lot. Was that, I remember hearing like back then, like that he, was the crucial, that night at Club Crucial, did he have the guitar with him that night? No, no, he didn't play the guitar yet. He hadn't even started playing guitar yet then. He did play guitar at Club Crucial another night. Okay. Before DJ G came in there with the band, playing the guitar, rocked out. But the guitar was something that he learned. Matter of fact, when he got signed, he got signed by Jim Johnson, label Rebel Rock, and Jim has his situation through Atlantic. So we ended up moving to Miami and he would always be in the studio with Jim. And Jim used a lot of guitars and he had a guitar player named Franco. And Bob just, just, just meshed with Frank. And then Bob started taking guitar lessons on his own acting class. Like he took all this stuff as a 17 year old kid now with his own money, he wanted to perfect his craft and his art. So he took, he took acting classes, he took guitar classes, he took singing classes to perfect himself as an artist. And so you were saying it was funny cause you saw him, you know, at the one level and then all the way up to the one time, at the point where he just skyrocketed but it was so much work put in in between, you know nothing on you didn't come out till 2010, he signed in 2006. So in that four year period, we dropped seven mixtapes and went on seven different tours. So all those were foundation building techniques to build Bob, you know, to build his fan base. Our whole philosophy was just building fans one person at a time. And that's just the way we went about it. But yeah, so all these things laid his foundation, you know and so when he finally had that big record he had been on the cover of all the magazines every outlet, every media outlet had Bob next for years. It was just okay, okay, when is it gonna happen? You know what I'm saying? But he was the darling of all the media. That is a process, go ahead. That's perfect because I would like to, I mean, you're the perfect person to ask because for me, you know, he's such a unique artist, right? And like he's very diverse and so many artists want to be diverse. Like so many people say they want to be diverse and they aren't diverse for real but he is like truly diverse. And I remember like, you know, all the cloud nines and things like that and then, you know, it was a track that would be on the radio. It would be everywhere and then I'll be in the sky. Exactly, those tracks were like, some of them were a little bit smoker, some of them were a little bit more Atlantic to cater a little bit hood. Then he'll have the ones that are more poppy or I treat the thousand S but by that, when he blew up with the nothing on you, right, that was straight pop. And what I saw, cause I was just, you know. But it wasn't though. Well, if it wasn't Bruno Boyce on there, it could have been Urban and it went number one Urban. True. So it's just a universal sound, but go ahead. But from like a kid's perspective and I'm just reading YouTube comments and stuff like that at the time. Like, and you hear the airplanes and stuff like that. Like that introduced him to such a pop world. And then when I started to see just watching as more music got released from a comments perspective, I would see he might do something back more on the, you know, Atlanta hood or tight side sometimes. And then the pop fans will be calling him a sellout. And then I'll see, you know, and then when he's doing the pop stuff, the hood people are looking at it one way. Like, what is that like from the inside? Dog on some real shit right there. It's like, it's like as an artist, you work all your life to become a superstar. That's what you want. That's what you're working for. Bob come from the hood, you know what I'm saying? He don't come from no suburban night place of fan. You know, he come, he come, he come from Decatur. He come and that's what he, how he grew up. It just so happened that he makes worldly music. Yeah. And so when he got on, he just made universal saw. He never wanted to be a pop guy, you know what I'm saying? And really that don't, it don't even sit well with him. You know, a lot of people always wonder why. Like, yo man, you know, that's what every rapper aspires to be. But, you know, he wanted to be embraced by his people. And he just made really big music. And you know, it ended up becoming, it's a gift and a curse having all these different types of fans and been able to make all different kinds of records and having all this success. The fan base is so huge and so diverse between the age groups, to the cultures, to everything. It's almost impossible for him to make something nowadays that's gonna go well with everybody. And so then it becomes something you have to deal with. And people on the outside really don't get it. And they don't understand. And when you, the artist, you just wanted to make records. Yeah. Never tried to, you know what I'm saying? Never tried to do it all. The only poppy record that was on the album was like, okay, damn, this thing is pop, too pop. It was magic, you know? Him with Rivers Cuomo, you know, it went double platinum. It might be triple now, but you know, that was the pop record. Yeah. We did Airplanes on BT with Keisha Cole singing it. You know what I'm saying? And so if you had Keisha on there over Haley, now that song has an urban feel. There were universal records of what they were. Pop. What was put on them made them, it took them that route. Yeah. But yeah, so he never tried to do that. And so, you know, so it's been a gift and a curse. And to be honest, it's something that, you know, that he deals with, like, and it's crazy. It's crazy from a management standpoint to know, no matter what he does and no matter how good it is, it don't matter. There's gonna be a segment of people that's gonna hate and bash, you know? And it's just like, wow, boy, that's just hard. It's weird. That's what I was asking, because I was so deep into it. And I would literally, I have, because of- Hold on, before you say that, let me say this, for an artist, that gets confusing. You know what I'm saying? Okay, so you're making this sound and then your fans start talking about, hold up now, you selling out and this and that and that and this ain't what you're trying to be. So now you're trying to make something to please them. But when you do that, you know, then you got these people over here and now they're bashing you. And it's just like, okay, should I, damn if I do, damn if I don't. That's exactly what I was actually about to say. I'll say it. But go ahead now, okay. That was it. No, that was it. It was confusing me, because I have a diverse type of music that I like because of just how I grew up. There will be so many different types from my dad. And so I could enjoy both sides. And then knowing the journey of where he came from and all that stuff. So I'll be looking at comments. I'm like, bro, what do you mean? Bro, what do you mean? But it was, it's, I always imagined that was a wild situation. And he came out with no drama, trying to make a point. Like, you know what I mean? Like there was so many, but yeah, I always wonder how, like what that was. So that's why when I hear artists talk about being diverse, especially when it's truly diverse, like some people are stylistically diverse. You can do a lot, but you're still in this pocket, like Tory Lane, right? He's like, he might, he can write and do anything, but it's stuff that he might write for people and do that stuff that's right outside the pocket. But as far as his music, he keeps it pretty much in a pocket, you know? And it has similar overlapping fan base, but like to just do it how Bobby did it. And like he never came out with that rock album that I remember he was talking about. At least I didn't catch it. And he still got it. He got all that music, and he got a whole bunch of projects. That's, you know, he does his record here. I imagine. He makes music a lot. I just want to know if like for an artist, I definitely wanted to get your opinion, your insight which you shared a lot because I think artists don't know what they're, what it actually looks like. We always, they hear the message of organic so much and they hear the message of it doesn't matter, just make what you want and you can be diverse. And consumers are not as trained for diverse music as you really think. Like they just aren't. They aren't. And they're not receptive either. Yeah, it just is what it is. So I really appreciate that. Like, and we track Beckham as well. How did you come across his situation? Like what made you even decide to take on another artist? You know, with Trump, it was funny because I was in, we had just finished a 43 city tour, I think it was with BOB. And our last day of the tour was in Miami. You know, our last day of that tour was in Miami. And so everybody left. I was leaving to go home because it was the last day of the tour. But I wanted to unwind. So I didn't leave. I stayed an extra day in Miami. Everybody else was gone. I wanted to chill out after that, being on the road for two months and on a bus. And so I stayed and so when I checked in my hotel, there was some guys over there and I was looking at them. And one of them had, well, they had on Def Jam gear. And I was like, okay, then that's okay. Well, I don't know how they got that Def Jam gear. Cause you know, you just can't find Def Jam gear where you can just go buy it like that. And so it's like, okay, but I know that he don't look. Well, I know he ain't on Def Jam. Well, I ain't never heard of him. I know he ain't on Def Jam. So after I got my key, I started walking off and then the person was like, yeah, I know we in the right hotel cause Mr. Chapman in this one. And then I was like, oh, and I looked up and I knew, I knew one of the guys with him. And he just started talking to me and started walking into my room, told me they had just got signed by Def Jam that it was trapped back on them. I was like, oh damn, that's pretty cool. I was like, I didn't know dude like that. So after that, I just started watching his socials, you know? Cause I was like, okay, well damn, you know what, respect for Def Jam was just coming and just picking up an artist, you know, that I'm not familiar with like that, I like that. So I just started watching. I was impressed with all the movement, everything going on. So then one day I got a call from a friend of mine saying that the guy who trapped assigned to wanted to meet with me. And so I met with him. Then I met with him in Atlanta, I ran into him in LA, ran into him back in Atlanta again in Jacksonville. So I was like, okay, well damn, you know, keep running into him. We talked, he told me about the deal situation and he needed somebody to come in and teach them, you know, cause they didn't know what they were doing. And so they needed somebody to come in to try to help get the situation straight with Def Jam and as well as just God trap in the team period. And when I went to hear the music, you know, I was just like, okay, hmm, and I like the sound. And I just, I don't know why I just felt like, you know, like, you know, maybe this dude has like the next sound. And the way I kept running into Steve, he was like, okay, you know what? For some reason, I just feel like I'm supposed to do this. And I did. I'm a big believer in my gut. I go, I'm a big believer in vibes on people and in situations. And I always go on my gut. I've found just being in the industry and in life. The only time that I've been wrong is when I've went against it. And so I go off my gut, man. And, you know, it just told me, hey, TJ, you know, this is something you're supposed to do. And it's funny cause everything's really coming together and he's developing and he's making great records. And so I'm actually really excited. But it was something that initially I did on faith. Okay. No, no, and what, speaking of like the industry and being signed and things like that, what do you feel like the biggest difference is for both of these artists are signed, but this artist takes off. This one is in the industry and signed consistently with a situation and they're surviving, they're doing well, but they aren't taking off, taking off. I mean, a lot of times it has to do with team. You know, team is everything. And I can't preach that enough to artists, man. You know, and it's funny cause I deal with it. I deal with man, so many artists bro, like it's crazy. And I just give people advice and tips and tell them how to deal with situations. And so, man, it's crazy how many artists are in situations with bad management. And the whole reason their career isn't taken off is because their manager don't know what to do or how to do it. They may not be professional. They may not be good at dealing with people. They may not be good at just handling business, you know? And it's so sad. And then when your management and your team isn't good, you know, that's kind of a turn off for the label. And it'll make them stop doing whatever it is they're doing, whether it's putting you out on the road, whether it's spending money, like, what y'all gotta realize is these people, these people are inspired by your work ethic. And if you're not working and they don't see you out here trying and making things happen and doing things you need to do as an artist, you know what, they're not inspired or excited. And they're gonna stop doing whatever it was they were doing and move on to the next artist it is whether you realize what's going on or not. And so that can easily be one of the things your management and your team are lack thereof to it can easily be your work ethic. Most of y'all don't wanna work. Most of y'all feel like sitting in the studio all day, smoking, drinking and doing whatever else it is you do is the grind. But really, if you have access to a studio, how hard is that to sit back in a chair and chill out and get drunk and high and, you know what I'm saying? Get dancing, whatever you got going on in that thing. And then more importantly, it might just be the music. You know? I mean, can't nothing make up for the lack of music but then it's like I say that and I contradict myself because we're in a new age. And in this new age, to be honest with you, the music is secondary to the people actually liking you. And that's everything. And so back in the day it was the music when it came to getting deals. Today, these labels are going after social media celebrities with tons of followers that are already pay attention to what they do and like what they do. So from the label standpoint, they know you already have some type of captive audience. So it's way easier for them to convert that captive audience to fans and tap into them and to their buying power. You know what I'm saying? It is to try to just create all these new fans. And so that's what they're buying into. And then, you know, even though there's a difference between followers and fans, you can convert those followers to fans number one. And then even with the followers, you can attach a certain dollar amount per person, you know, to just come up with what you can potentially generate and that's how they look at these things. And they like Atlantic is a built-in system, you know? And so between Craig Cobb and Mike Herron, all they do is buy records. They buy records and they got a stockpile of records. Did they buy beats, hooks? And when you come in, depending on the artist and what it is and the sound and style, they're gonna go in that vault and pull out some of them hits they had stashed away, waiting for the right time to use them, you know? So once you already have a fan base, it's easy to give you the records and push you. It's harder when you have the music, but the people don't even find you cool. Interesting, interesting. That definitely makes sense because from a company standpoint, right? If you already have your system, I can basically calculate based on your numbers what my system would do to you. Like, I know the most out of the middle career, yeah. Yeah, interesting. Well, so to change directions and kind of like close out a little bit, really curious the fact that, I mean, you've had, you know, considerable success at what you do as a manager, right? And a lot of people, not even your level and above, but even people who've had success, but less success than you, wouldn't be sharing as much as you do, right? You do the free music reviews, TV, like all that stuff, like you listen, you share, what causes you to actually be so involved and touch basis with artists hand-to-hand as you do so much? I mean, to be honest though, that's what I've done my whole life. And that's how I built my brand. That's how I built who I am and everything I'm able to do. You know, I started out with TJ's DJs, which was a record pool and grew that. But the thing that made everything take off was when I started doing my conference and I did a call to taste makers only. It was a conference I did four times a year, every quarter. And it was a platform for everybody and everybody that you can think of that's in Southern Rap would come through my event, you know, and man, it was a launching pad, like dog, it'll blow your mind. You know, all these Southern artists, it was a launching pad for the first time T-Pain ever performed sprung was at my TJ's DJs. The first time Gucci Man performed so icy was at TJ's DJs. He didn't know the song, you know what I'm saying? He didn't even know the lyrics yet. He forgot the lyrics on stage. You know, the first time bi-perform I'll Be in the Sky was at TJ's DJs until I had said the moon. But I mean, I can go on and on and on and on and there were so many firsts and so many of these big artists, you know, and even an event that I started with Julia Beverly called the Ozone Awards. That was really huge, didn't know 60708. These things were, was like the Ozone Awards was aired worldwide on the various MTV networks. You know, so it's like I've always had a platform for helping artists and using the platform and using the relationships and the people that I'm tapped into to help grow and break their music. And so I've always been given, you know, we just didn't have social media. I wish we did back then. But like, I like to help people. I like to coach, like I just, I like seeing people win, man. I like being involved. I like changing people's lives. I like creating stars. I like doing things that people say, you know, that I can't do. And it's just, this is just what I've always done, man. And I just want to see artists win. I'll give you another example. You know, I used to manage K-Camp. I was with Kamp and I was behind. I helped get him his deal with Interscope and I was one of the executive producers on the Interscope release. But yeah, I was behind the Money Baby to cut that bitch off, comfortable, you know, all those records. And so I had met his mom when he was 16. She told me we became friends. Then one day she called me and told me she had a son. He rapped, asked if I'd give him feedback on his music. I was like, cool. I got on the phone with him. The music really wasn't that good. I told him I wasn't feeling the music what he needed to work on. You know, his mom called back, said, thanks. She said, you know, I don't know what I said, but it kind of made him a little upset or whatever. But he vowed to keep working until I liked his music, you know what I'm saying? And he would call me. He would text me or email me or whatever. Hey, man, what's going on? Hey, I got this, check this out, that, that. And I was always a mentor to him and his mom. And I was a mentor to him and his mom for years, maybe like four or five, before I ever got involved with the management, with the money, baby, and cut her off. But me giving people help, me giving, providing value to people, it builds a trust factor with them and my brand. And so, you know, with that, it enabled me to come in on a situation that was already in place. You understand? And the same with the BOB, it was a situation already in place. The same with Trap, it was a situation already in place. But I know what to do, to take whatever it is from here, up here, you know? But it's the given information, it's helping people out. It provides credibility for me and my brand to be able to move. And, you know, I mean, it just helps, shoot. I mean, I make money from it. I don't make money from giving advice, but because of the trust built from that, I make money from it indirectly, you know? People want my services, people want to submit music for my show, people want me to come speak at their event or host or come in or their project or whatever it may be. So that's why I do it, man. Cause I like helping people, man. And I feel like I'm blessed from it. Okay, last question. Is there anything else that you want to accomplish within music or if it's outside of music, another industry or side product? You know, I don't know in music, it's like I want to do something else, but it's like I'm so good at this and I got so much experience. I know everybody, it don't make sense. But, you know, I still say, I still want to have a successful record label one day. I mean, I've had labels in the past, you know, been involved with me and I was one of the founding members and one of the owners of no genre, BLB's label. But I've been in other label situations, have my own label. But I'd like to have a successful label before I leave this business, before I leave it alone. It ain't got to be a long-term thing. It just would be my label and me having some record-breaking projects and then I'm cool. But yeah, outside, I mean, I should, I like to eat, man. I like to eat, I like to cook and I would love to just be able to chill out one day and open up a dope little restaurant lounge and just kick back. Dope. Oh, gotta have the hookas in there, though. Gotta have the hookas. Gotta have the hookas. Yeah. All right. Dope, man, I appreciate you once again, man, and hey, everybody, follow TJ at TJ's DJs. That information will be in the description. I'll have his Instagram up on the screen, all that good stuff. You already know who I am. Ram and Sean would love to know you guys' thoughts on the interview. Put it in the comment section below. If you liked this video, go ahead and like button. If you like it, you might as well share it and if you're not subscribed. You know what to do, hit that subscribe button.