 February 1st. Okay, let me start again. Good morning. It's February 1st. And this is the initial meeting of the town services and outreach committee known by the acronyms of TSL. I am not a member of this committee, but as president of the council, it's my responsibility to call the meeting to order and conduct the election for a chair of the committee. And then I turn the meeting over to the chair who then proceeds to have an election for the vice chair and can proceeds with the rest of the meeting. So with that, let me just start by saying the open meeting law allows us to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the council physically present at a meeting location. At this time, we provide access through zoom and the phone. Given that we have a quorum of the town services and outreach committee present. I'm calling the meeting to order at 1001. And with that, I would like to ask if there are either nominations or self nominations for the position of chair. I would like to nominate Bob Hegner. Yes, I can't. No, I just Bob. Okay, Bob Hegner. Yes, I would like to nominate Andy Steinberg. Andy, do you accept the nomination? Yes, I do. Are there any other nominations? Andy, would you like to say a few words? Thank you, Bob, for nominating me. The reason that I have expressed an interest in being at least for this year, the chair of the committee is that I'm the one member who was on last year, who's repeating again so that the work that we had done last year, which is expressed in the carryover memo. Since I was the one who was involved with it, I felt that I could contribute some guidance in the process. I think that was a great committee and any member here is capable of being chair, but that was why I put my interest forward to Bob. Okay. And seeing no other nominations, I'm going to ask someone to put the following motion in place and that is to elect Andy Steinberg, Councillor Andy Steinberg to the position of chair of town services and outreach. I need a motion and a second. So moved. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. And we're going to move to a vote. I'll try to do this in alphabetical order. Hello, Lord. Lord I. Bob Higner. Hi. I'm sorry, it was counselor Lord. Bob Higner. Councillor Ryan. Hi. Andy Steinberg. Hi. Jennifer top. I, it's unanimous. And with that, Andy, I'm going to ask that Athena put me in the audience and you take over the meeting. Thank you. Thank you everyone on the committee. And I appreciate it. And I'll try to not let you down. And proceeding to the agenda as we go through the agenda, the election of vice chairs next and so I put it up for nominations Jennifer. I'd like to nominate counselor Ryan for vice chair. Council Ryan, do you accept the nomination? Yes, I do. Thank you. Thank you for the other nominations. Seeing no one else asking for. Recognition for to make a nomination. I think there would be an order is. A motion. Point of order. You should probably give counselor Ryan an opportunity to make. The guidebook in front of me for elections. So thank you. Council Ryan, would you like to. Yeah, just just briefly, Andy. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you for the nomination and. You know, I actually was involved in helping create this committee in the early years of the console. I served on it briefly. I was chair of it. So I know it well. I'm very fond of it. I actually believe I personally think it's my favorite committee. I know that sounds a little weird to some people, but. Town services and outreach or 2 things that I think are really important. I think I work well with Andy and I would certainly give him all the support and help I can. So, yes, I would be delighted to service vice chair if that's the will of the committee. I guess other members can say something and I will exercise that privilege because I. I worked with George on this committee previously because both of us served in. The third year of the first term of the council. The first committee and. George did some magnificent work in a number of issues, but one in particular. The references that we needed to come up with a uniform policy to address the issue of parking regulations because we had been tasked with looking at. Lincoln Avenue and the joining streets and. We had no basis for. Making the kinds of judgments that needed to be made. And develop George help by leading in developing a policy that not only. Ben was able to be applied for Lincoln and. Reach to resolution on Lincoln. But also is used at least in one other street, which is Kendrick and is a standing policy. And I think that that was magnificent. Example of the kind of leadership that. Brought to the committee and to be serving with them again. So. Anybody else would like to make a statement. Thank you. Thank you very much. Then I guess we're. Ready for a motion. The motion would be to. Elect Ryan is committee vice chair for 2024. I will put that motion forward. Second. So motion has been made and seconded. I'll just go alphabetically again, because I think it'll be easier. Council Lord. Lord I. Bob Hegner. I. Council Ryan. And I'm an eye and Jennifer. I. So it is unanimous and. We have a chair and a vice chair and we can move on to. The meeting schedule. That was proposed. And it was in the packet and so everybody had a chance to see it. It was developed, I think by Athena. Did you develop that? Yes, I. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wanted to take into consideration all of the other committees that members serve on and the other committee meeting schedule, trying not to. Schedule both TSO and. I'm sorry. TSO and. On the same Thursdays so that people don't have a, people who serve on both committees don't have a four hour commitment on. In one week on one day. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Put in case some of the spacing between weeks. Doesn't make sense right off the bat. I put TSO on second and fourth Thursdays. If I may Andy CRC opted to put an, a meeting. A second meeting in July and the early part of July when I had. Proposed just one meeting in the latter part of July. It's up to the committee. If they'd like to keep a placeholder meeting for that July, probably would be July 11th. And then cancel it if. If they don't need it. And then because of the timing of Thanksgiving and the. The other winter holidays. TSO has only one meeting in November and December. CRC opted to. In November and December. So they can. Keep meetings. Keep two meetings on the schedule in those months. So TSO could choose to. Meet on the same days. As GOL and November and December. If that. Is preferred. So. Do any members of the committee. What let's start with July. When it proposed that we put a placeholder. On July 11. I think was the date that you mentioned. George. I have councilor Ryan. Yeah. I think it's a good suggestion. I think this is a fine. I first of all, I appreciate very much what Athena's done. She's had to juggle 14 balls at once. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And you can. In the community meetings. And I appreciate that. I appreciate very much what Athena has done. And she's had to juggle 14 balls at once. I appreciate. Putting this. Meeting on alternate. Thurs days. So that some of us don't have an entire day devoted to. Committee meetings. So I'm very grateful for the work she's done. I don't have a strong feeling on this, but perhaps a placeholder. For the. July 11th. Meeting might make some sense. the need and that may very well happen in the course of our work. That's my thought on it. Would you, Councillor Ryan, suggest that as we list July 11, that we put something in there about if needed or tentative? I'd have no objection to that. Okay. Jennifer? Yeah, I don't want to belabor this. I think maybe it was the first year I was on the council. We had this for an August council meeting and I think people tend to make plans assuming we're not having a meeting. You know, when they see that on the calendar and I think when we did have to add it, there were people scrambling. So I'm also concerned, yeah, I think some of the thinking for not, I mean, I realize if we need a meeting, we probably have to have it. But the thinking behind not having meetings in July was so staff could plan vacations. So I'm concerned if we, a week or two before decide we need a meeting, you know, I guess I'm asking Athena what impact that has on the staff side. Andy, if I can speak on this. Yeah, Athena? It's been my experience that come July folks appreciate a break, not just staff, but counselors come back from the break in July feeling from what they've told me, from what some counselors have told me, that the time off has been really beneficial. I think that people take the if needed meetings both ways. Some people plan around those as though they will happen, and some plan around those as though they won't happen. So from that experience, I would say either put it on there or don't so that so that it's clear that it's there, you can cancel it if you don't need it, or don't put it on and don't plan to have a meeting. And if it comes time, then, and you feel that you need to schedule another meeting in July, then we can work with everyone's vacation schedules and make sure that it's on a date that works for everyone. So should we take the if needed off? Do you object to doing that? Jennifer? Yeah, I agree taking it off. I'm one of the people that assumed it wasn't happening and was scrambling. Bob? Yeah, I think we can take it off. I mean, we can always add it if we need it. Okay. And Andy, Bob, do you mean take the meeting off or? If needed, I believe you said. No, I meant to take the meeting off the calendar. Right. I mean, Jennifer, you've made some plans so you can't make that date. Is that correct? No, no, I haven't made any plans. I'm just saying in the past, we had a council meeting that said if needed. And I think more people assumed it wasn't happening. And I see. Yeah. Yeah, then we can leave it on and, you know, if we don't need it, we can cancel it. But if it's there, it'll be, you know, people will be aware of it. And I guess the next thing to just draw this to close is that November and December, it's really, do we really want to go for two months with only two meetings? Should we add at least one in which would date would it be? Is it 20, is it 28 Thanksgiving? Yes, it is. So I thought. So if you chose a Thursday in November, it would be the same day as GOL. Those dates are November 7 or November 21, and they would be back-to-back dates for the meeting on the 14th. So it would either be the 7th and the 14th or the 14th and the 21st. You chose to add one there. So I think there are two questions. One is do we add one meeting or two? And is there a suggestion of the date, Jennifer? Well, I think we definitely don't want anyone to have back-to-back meetings on the 21st, four days before Christmas. Oh, I'm sorry. Those were November dates. Oh, not December 21. For November, it would be the 7th or the 21st. In December, it would be the 5th or the 19th, if you wanted to add one. And all four of those dates are GOL meeting dates. And that impacts George. So I say we leave it up to George. I think for one, I mean, really, it just seems like a big gap. And I see that. And I think I could survive one, perhaps two sessions worthy, because it would be a 10 a.m. meeting and then probably a 630 or 730 meeting. So there would be four hours of council of committee meetings on that particular day. But that would not be the end of the world for me. I could certainly manage that if we think that we really should be meeting a little bit more often at that time of the year. So I guess my answer is if the committee wants to meet more often, which does seem like a not unreasonable thought, given that our meeting schedule currently, I could live with one or perhaps even two back-to-backs. Do you have any suggestions about date? I'm looking at my calendar. We are currently scheduled. We're talking about November. We're meeting 14th. I think the 7th is perhaps, is that? I don't know. I really don't. Thanksgiving is the 28th. Is that right? Correct. Yes. That's also my birthday. So for what it's worth, that happens every like every 10 years or something. So yeah, anybody have any thoughts? I think you all should decide what you think is the right frequency and don't worry about me. Andy, if I can make a suggestion, perhaps because the holidays are later in the month on both in both November and December, the earlier dates would be a better idea so that people don't have to worry as much about conflicting with holiday plans. So November 7 and December. I agree. I agree. That makes sense. The other one I had thought about is December 5. And these are meetings we can also, we can cancel them if we need to, but I think Jennifer's right, having it on the schedule is focuses our minds and if needed is probably not a good idea. So why don't we put them in and we'll see how things play out. Yeah, but I think all of us will remember that we've thought about the pressure of the holidays and possibility of desire to cancel. I wonder if Andy, if I may bring our attention back to the summer August, we have two dates in August, the 15th and the 29th. That is the month traditionally that I go away for a week. I know already that I will not be here on August 15. I could do it remotely. I really don't like doing that, but I certainly can, especially if it's important. I'm wondering if what the rest of you think about that particular month having two meetings in August, I think that is often thought of as we have two in July, two in June. I would like to suggest that we take one out. It doesn't have to be the 15th, but what do people think about that? Do they they're okay with two meetings in August? It's pretty much a dead time and people are vacationing, at least some of us are. Any thoughts on that? Bob has a hand up. I'm open to anything. I mean, if anything, we tend to take our vacations in September because we like to go to places like Europe where it's just too hot August and too crowded. I'll have to work around the September schedule. It's perfectly acceptable to be absent from some meetings too. And just a note about the August meeting dates. The Council, the Finance Committee, GOL, and CRC all have two meeting dates in August. So folks will have to decide whether they want to do those meetings. What's wrong with those people? It's fine. And it means two meetings each month, which is fine. So should we leave it as is? And Paul, did you have a comment here? Yeah, I do also want to mention that in terms of staff attendance, staff do take vacations. And so you may have a meeting, but you may not have staff in attendance that you might need. But we can schedule things as we talk about the schedule so we know where staff are at certain times. So I encourage staff to take vacations during the summer, which is usually the best time for staff. That's when they want to take them. So as youth, we can manage your agendas to manage when staff are available. Okay, that's helpful to know. And obviously, when we get to scheduling specific items, if there is an item that relies on a staff member and that staff member is planning a vacation, we will not be able to schedule for that date, that particular item. So newly noted, but let's move this along. And is there a motion to adopt the schedule as now presented? There's been a motion that's made and seconded. I don't think further discussion is needed, particularly if anybody wants to say anything more, please raise your hands. Otherwise, we'll go through Paula. Lord I. Sorry, Councilor Lord, I apologize. And Bob Higner. I. Councilor Ryan. I. I'm an I and Jennifer. I. So we've unanimously adopted the schedule, which then gets to the review of the carryover items. And I appreciate you being here for the Paul. Paul has been the staff person who works closely with this committee since we reviewed his appointments and we're dealing with town services as a principal issue so that it's been very helpful. One comment about the carryover memo since I was involved in writing it and at least one member of the committee commented to me about how long it is. And that that is true. And I think that it's obvious what happened was that that two members of the committee volunteered to write more extensive sections regarding the issues that they were working on. One was the streetlight policy and Anna was vice chair of the committee last year. And we spent a lot of time on that issue. So she volunteered to write it up knowing that we needed to be able to pick up on it in as we proceed. And the other was Shalini Balmille who is a co-sponsor with Jennifer and me and Alicia from the council of the waste hauler. And as you will note as you look at that section is written by Shalini and she has spent a lot of time in her last months on the council because she was very committed to the issue and wanted to make sure that it was continued for consideration and discussion in this council. So that's why it's as long as it is the actual memo that introduces all of this is a lot briefer. So I guess the first general questions but otherwise what I would like to do is just go through the automatically carried over section first that is beginning on page one of the memo and see if there are any questions. And so you have the opportunity to get up to speed on these issues and we can get reports from Paul where they're appropriate and go through the items that are listed because everything that's in that first section of what will be automatically carried over including the two that have the more extensive reports appended at the end of there. So and then what I want to do is a follow-up item then is we have the items not are upcoming agenda items is the way it's listed on the agenda which would be an opportunity if there are other things that people would like to get our thinking about to allow people to address things that they think the committee ought to be considering in the next year. Does that seem like a good way to approach it? And if there's agreement then let's start to see if there are any questions about the north lessen street pedestrian improvements which is item number one. That one was pretty straightforward and I think George may have been an issue that even dates back to your first term. Professor Ryan. Yeah I think the question I have is just what what are next steps. Are we waiting to hear something from staff? Are we ready to hold a public forum? I see in the the memo that TSO recommends that we hold a public forum I think that makes sense. Are we ready to do that? Are we just is this on hold? What's the current status? Well yeah so the DPW has done the engineering work and proposal for this. There isn't there aren't funds to do any of the work so it was not you know a priority at the time and I think we can put this on the list of things to you know I can talk with a you know superintendent public works and look at our finances on when we can start to do these things. I think the goal would be to get approval from the council to do some or all of this work so that when the money does become available you've already approved it. So I think that I would suggest that you make this you know you I can work with the chair to place this on the agenda at some point during the coming year. So the next step Paul sounds like it's a council action and we would wait for that so this goes on the back burner for TSO council needs to act and you know what will happen maybe the next six months and then we'll go from there. Yes okay thank you. Yeah I just wanted to ask is this something that the staff is actually actively looking for funding for or we expect that funding opportunities come at certain times? It would have to come out our road paving money unless there's some other source of funds that we can identify. Okay thank you. Yeah the road paving issue is one that didn't get listed on the carryover memo but is one that has was a lot of attention paid in the prior term and we had a excellent presentation that was made and should see if we could find that presentation to offer to people or need to repeat it to at least get a make sure that everybody's in the same plane about how GPW evaluates roads and makes recommendations and decisions and processes. That's good we can send that out Andy I think you're right Jason Skeels had done that and we recorded it and packaged it up so it is really an informative presentation it's about 30 minutes or so but you learn so much about roads by watching it so encourage you to watch it. So Paul can send that out to the committee. Appreciate that George. I think it's great I would like to see if we can when we get this just if we could put it on the TSO website there's something we'll come back to maybe later or me I'll keep making this point as we go along through the carryover memo I personally would like to see the website the TSO website a resource so that we could send constituents they they talked to us about this a lot obviously they go to the D I assume we could also put on the DPW website but I'd like it because we are called town services and outreach I think this is a thought that I have is that when we do get this link that we also we look at it a that's important and we study it but also that we make it available to constituents using our website. We can send you the link to where it is George on the website and share it out I think you know our web folks try to organize our website so that's in a way that's more that's coherent so you don't have to go to a committee's page to find the material if we're really talking about roads you know people won't think to go to the TSO to look for an item so we try to put it in a place where like if it's about roads people would find it but we can place it added to the committee's packet for sure it will be added to the committee's packet. Yeah I just wanted to say I remember a couple of times sending it out of my new the link to the video in my district newsletter so this is a little off topic but it seems somewhat related is is TSO where we could also I know we had had a discussion about the C-click fix because that I was also always sending out to constituents we had discussed in the last council that maybe that could become a little more interactive so when people you know filed in C-click fix that there was a road or sidewalk that they thought needed repair that they might get some feedback that had been received or where it was in the queue or or maybe that's something we want to add to another TSO agenda. I mean you do get acknowledgement for every C-click fix item that could submit it it automatically sends you a re and if it gets resolved you get an email saying it's been resolved. I mean I use C-click fix all the time and there it's it's it gives you updates along the way. Okay because I filed something in December of 2022 and I have it. You didn't get a response? You know actually you did it for me in your office so you probably got the response. Oh yeah. But okay now I remember a couple of letters coming in from constituents to the full council. I think somebody had filed something and it turned out to be a road that was it was a state road and they hadn't heard back but so they inquired about it later and then I think you responded that it actually wasn't a town road but I um but maybe that's something we could put on a future agenda because again something was filed in front of my house um in 2022 and I don't know what's happening you know I hear that from constituents that they put something in and then they you know and they may hear back if it's fixed two or three years later but that seems like a long period where they're not hearing back. Bettina. I'm going to suggest that Jennifer you take this up with Paul offline because it's not really within the purview of the committee and it's not on the agenda today. Okay I will sorry. There are a whole lot of road issues that we probably need to talk about and try and find our role in and I guess this is as good a time as any just to mention very briefly because again it's not on the agenda but our relationship with the transportation advisory committee in trying to find what our role is and what their role is and how it relates I think is a major issue that needs to be addressed fairly promptly because I think the transportation advisory committee having been the liaison to that committee is something that needs needs attention it needs because they need to know what their role is and how they fit in with us and we've never satisfactorily addressed that issue is the conclusion that at least they have. So shall we move on to the particularly budgeting commission recommendations which have just continued to be on hold and really did not spend much time in the last council on that issue that I can recall the use in the charter and was referred Paul did you have something? Yeah so the council has met the requirements of the charter the charter just said you had to look into it the charter did not say you had to take action on anything so you've met the requirements of the charter whether you want to continue this or not it's up to the council. Jennifer? Yeah so I was not aware that this had been referred because I haven't been on TSO before but I think it's a great maybe long overdue suggestion to have the town gown committee as part of the participatory budgeting process so how if we wanted that if we wanted to move forward to make that happen would it have to go back to the full council or has it already been referred to TSO? The there has been report given to the town council so if you want to you should review that and decide if you want to move forward and when you want to move forward on whatever recommendations they have. So how do we make that do we want to make that part of how and do we want to and how do we make that part of this committee's what we're going to work on or look at? I think we would have to schedule this new agenda item Athena? There was a council referral in 2021 Paul to TSO to refer to town services and outreach committee to explore the development of a town gown working partnership on participatory budgeting as outlined in the report so it is within it has been carried over in TSO over and over again it's in their within their duties but they just haven't taken it up in years so you may have forgotten that it's already come to them. Thank you. Councilor Rye? So it sounds like this item we have a report we need to read and at some point it could be put on the agenda if the chair wishes or if there are enough members of the committee who want to put it on the agenda for discussion so I think this is a future item at the moment some of us have some homework to do and at some point perhaps someone can ask this to be put on the agenda I would not be one of those people but there may be three who would like to have it on the agenda at some point but right now I think it's it's a it's a back burner issue and we have some report to read. So we'll be sent the report with that so I think there was a report from 2021 is that what I'm understanding. The participatory budgeting group created a report back in 2021. Oh so it's just their full report and that's part of that. I can find that and share that with the committee and when it goes on the agenda I'll put it in your meeting packet. Okay thank you. Okay the next item is the refuse and recyclable materials piece which has a much longer section as noted previously that follows and some of it I think that three members of this committee went to an MMA session on this issue and Paul was at that session too so the four people present who are at the MMA presentation the duck tailed exactly Paul. Could we invite Guilford into the meeting for the next this item in the next item because he could have updates direct updates for you. Is he available? He's here. Okay. Can I invite him in? Yes please bring. Good morning Guilford. Good morning. How are you today? Well then well. So we have two items that in the first one we're talking about is getting an update as to where we are with the trash hauling by law the waste refuse collection recycled the materials by a law and I think that where the last TSO was at was that we were waiting for a report from the RFIs that had been received. So we've received the RFIs Susan Waite and I are going through them and we're trying to come up with a cost range of a cost range for the items that we asked for in the RFI and then come up with sort of a with a background on our cost estimate for running a program if we wish to do certain things. And do you have a timeline as to when we might be able to receive that? We're hoping to be done this month with that. We have the information. I have a vacation. I think Susan has a vacation this month and then we hope to have it out by the end of the month. Okay. Questions from the committee and Guilford on this or either the co-sponsors? Jennifer? Yeah no I just wanted to say that I appreciate getting it by the end of the month because I feel like we're kind of stuck. We can't really move forward until we have that information so that would be very helpful to know that we'll have it by a specific point. Thank you. Yes I'm curious about yard waste. I noticed it was mentioned in the longer summary but I didn't see any action related to yard waste. Was that included in the RFIs? Yard waste was included and so was bulky waste. Okay thank you. That's right. So when this does come back to us the RFI what would be the next steps? What would be the committee's next task? I think the decision by the committee is to decide what you want to do. If you want to continue moving forward what additional information you feel you're going to need if you want to move forward or not. I think you want to look at it's a big project. I mean it's not going to happen anytime soon. It's a major commitment of town's resources to even develop the project so we just have to decide. I think what we had said is we don't have enough information. The RFI is giving us information directly from haulers. We've had the support of the DEP person Susan Waite and then it's going to land into your lapses like what would you like to do next? Do you feel that the responses to the RFI will give us a lot of information to answer some of the questions you know haul just articulated? The answers to the RFI will tell us give us a range of prices to do what we want to and then you'll be able to decide if you truly want to eat the elephant or not. Will the RFIs be available to the public or did they contain information that can't be made public and only the summary can be made public? I need to go back through some people did have some some people did have some proprietary information they did not want release so I'd have to go through and redact some of that if we wanted to release the whole RFIs. I think there are two things that might be helpful to send out to the committee for inclusion in the packet for this meeting or next meeting one is the MMA slides from the presentation that was made so that those of us who were not at the conference could at least see what the presentation was it was largely by DEP regarding the state solid waste master plan that we need to be conscious of and the second was that there were two towns that presented after DEP about their personal their experiences within their towns and stuff that material can be made available and the other thing would be helpful is the RFI itself the request for information not the responses but what was sent out to the haulers so that there would be some context available and if there's no objection I just asked did it be added to the packet for today's meeting and then you can review it as you receive it and have time there are other questions regarding the RFI the other thing Guilford we talked about earlier in the meeting before you I don't know if you were listening was there was some discussion of the north pleasant street and we we did have some discussion about that about needing to move forward in appropriate time to sort of address the question of what should be done with that particular project if funds become available and recognizing that the funds have not been committed to it and and so that was a discussion that took place before you were here I don't know if anybody has questions that they want to ask Guilford about north pleasant and if not we should go on to the safety zone issue which I think is much more active at the present time so the fourth item then is the question of the safety zone and the reference to specific MGL statute that was accepted by the council and there was an engineering study that is a required part of the process for adopting for that particular street area any particular any street area that you propose to actually adopt the speed limit that was consistent with the safety zone that were permitted to do and the engineering study I believe is underway and and it was going to be a report back from the town manager by February 1st which happens to be today so Paul do you have anything to report deferred Guilford I got a draft report earlier this week and then there's a couple of things I had them actually change in the reports that makes it easier to read they had some there's more clarifying information and tables and stuff and I had them put it up higher up and they're working on that and I probably will get it sometime next week and then it'll be available so they're Jennifer it just for my own clarification I can't hear you Jennifer yeah I'm sorry I was on mute I'm sorry is this particularly about Henry Street or yeah okay not townwide thank you yes it's just Henry Street and the we took some action in the council approved of installing are moving forward to install speed automated speed signs on either side so that people would know the speed that they're driving that correct correct yes and we were talking to a vendor about getting a sign um we kind of the signs we normally use we're trying to decide where they go with a normal sign or go with a second sign um and we've been talking to the vendor about that that's where that is in all other action that was requested by the daycare and parents who have kids at the daycare who raise the issue or unhold until we get the engineering study yes the engineering study would then enable us to consider whether to adopt safety zone the speed limits and other things that were permitted would be then permitted to do so that's where that is other questions about Henry Street or the issue itself and the last item was the topic of 17th chapter 90 17 C and 18 B which allow um speed limit decisions to be made under certain circumstances that are provided by statutes and as noted the prior discussion had to do with 18 B which is one that was accepted by the um council on prior recommendation and is the activity that's involved but 17 C is a different section does anyone have questions or want to make an in someone make an explanation of 17 C uh briefly 17 C is if adopted by the town it would allow um the town to establish a speed limit of 25 miles per hour in those densely populated areas those densely settled areas I believe for my recollection yeah I think that's in the question had come up um a long time ago back it may have even been in the first council because of a pedestrian path that happened on North Pleasant Street and a request that was made to the council to adopt this provision and to lower the speed limit on that particular street and that's where this uh first arose George um yeah so um as far as this committee is concerned this sounds like something that we could move ahead on but it would require presentations I assume by relevant uh people who actually know what they're talking about and in terms of its impact and in terms of what this may or may not do I have some personal sympathy to this desire to address speed limits but it may turn out not to make practicals I just don't know there's obviously a great deal I simply don't know but um I would think this is something that we could move forward on if uh others felt that it should be done uh it's basically up to us it's in our court we're not waiting on any reports we're not waiting on any action by staff um it would be a matter of us I guess asking for a presentation or trying to decide what information we need um to to address this and so I guess I'm asking my colleagues whether they think this is something we should try to move forward more quickly um we've got a couple items that seem more backburner because we're waiting on stuff we can't really do much um I don't know what do people think uh yeah what I'd like to know is um how much of the town would be impacted by this speed limit and and where would it be I mean I what when I was canvassing I had one homeowner um on Shea Street uh request that the speed limit be lowered there all the way to route 116 because the the the district for the or the the light the flashing lights for Cracker Farm didn't go far enough and people were speeding so there must be other places like that in town where we should focus on that so I don't I don't know if we have that information or if that we should you know request that information from the public or what yeah responses I can do Athena I think all those questions would come up during the committee's review and recommendation process that wasn't really explored in depth yet and so all of those questions and answers I think would be part of the process I think at this point we just need to figure out you know what items TSO wants to come when and so that we have enough time to prepare some of those answers for you before they they come up on your agenda I think for some of these questions we'll need um input from staff and potentially um KP law to let us know what we need to do and how so I think for right now it's more of a timing question than anything that's right and I think if I understand Bob's comment um at some point we'd also want the public so we'd have a kind of public forum we'd be inviting public input not saying soon but at some point I would add I think the council committee should be thinking what is the problem you want to to address what is what is the problem you're trying to solve and you're asking is this the right tool to solve the problem I mean just to accept something to accept it doesn't make it it's a it's a ton of time to investigate all of the roads you know 100 miles of roads and analyze them and many of these things we may not be able to do internally we might have to have a consultant come in so it's we're going to be spending time and or money on this but I think the question I think for all of our time it's important to say what is the problem we're trying to solve and is this the right tool for the solution so and so just because it's on our carry over list doesn't mean you have to do anything with it you can say we don't see the need to do anything on it so it's a decision for you as a as a committee to think about and I think it's important to be judicious in how you allocate your own personal time as well as staff time. The one thing that we had in the first council before TSI was created and the topic of traffic and traffic safety was assigned to CRC was that Jason's skills and our current acting police chief who has done a captain in the police department gave Ting came before the committee and made a presentation about speed limits, how speed limits are determined and but it was a very informative presentation this was not at a time when we necessarily had recordings of all meetings this meeting there was a meeting in person at that point whether that kind of a presentation should happen again is something that we ought to be considering it's to whether someone from PPW and the police department could make a presentation to this committee. Jennifer? Yeah I just wanted to confirm that this is a different conversation than Henry Street that we're looking at okay Henry Street okay thanks. It's a different they're two as noted they're two different sections and the Henry Street is dealing with the section 18b and what we've already accepted but they're very specific requirements for the where you can use that provision and what the process is and the process for that includes just the identification of the reason for a special speed limit in this case a daycare center or a school is one of the things and the requirements of an engineering study which is what Jilford was reporting on earlier. George? Scott? Right. Paul raises a good point and I hear him the question of what's the problem we're trying to address and I will certainly give it a lot more thought but my immediate response is that is something I do hear from constituents one of the common refrains is speeding and pedestrian safety on a number of different streets. I'm not saying this is the solution to that problem I don't know what the solution is maybe there is no solution but it is something I certainly hear a fair amount about and maybe the next step if the committee wants it is what Andy suggests is hearing from the police department and just maybe have them do a similar presentation I'm afraid asking them to do it twice but to get us to focus our minds on what the problem is and whether we think this is the right way to proceed. I was just thinking the police department probably also has data on where they've issued citations for speeding and we could ask them to provide that information I think that would be very helpful. Again I would say what is the problem you know is there a road that you want us to look into I mean I mean such a general information is really good it's useful and I can appreciate that but I think that if you're asking our staff to say we have to say is speeding an issue in the town of Amherst we can have a general discussion I don't think that'll be very satisfying because the answer is always yes pedestrian safety is always yes but it's helping us understand where are you hearing the concerns because you hear it a lot more frequently than we do and that's what's helpful to us and if you say this road this crossing this this area is a is a major issue I've heard it repeatedly from my constituents then we can look into that and come up with a plan of action for you to convey back to your constituents saying here are things that we can do here are things we can't do and here's the likely impact of what we do because it does come up and usually it comes up not through a committee it comes up through individual counselors saying you know I'm hearing from my neighbors people are speeding and it's it's something that we would address through police enforcement or something like that but if it's a more continuing thing that and you want a more permanent type solution that takes it to a different level of the conversation but again I think the specificity of what the of the issue is is really important in terms of making our meeting you already you have limited number of hours of meetings making those productive once we open up the discussion I think we will hear from lots of people with their opinions I think that where I've generally been hearing most frequently is where there has already been a pedestrian death that has occurred and or people who have very specific concerns and the pedestrian deaths that I can recall or the one we've already mentioned the North Pleasant Street there was one on Northeast Street just south of Strong if I recall exactly those number of years ago and I know that one of the property owners on that section of roadway which is 45 miles an hour from Strong Street until almost getting to Main Street is something that this particular individual has felt was too high and needs to be a lower number and is discussed that with me multiple times once there are several pedestrian deaths that occurred on streets and the university campus and there's a question of who has jurisdiction there this of those those roadways are actually university roadways so that's my comment about yes I do hear specific things and what they generally tend to be so is there an interest in getting at least a general presentation of so that we have a better understanding of how speed limits are determined and what down what what what we can do if presented and then address specific situations as they arise because I know that this one says the Northeast Street will come back again as soon as there's an opportunity to do so. Councillor Ryan. So are you asking Sandy if we'd like to have some kind of presentation at some point just as an overview for information purposes is that your question to us yes and I also hear the thought which is a good one for me to begin to make a list of streets that I've heard from I can think of a couple I'm Roy Lane is one I've heard a lot about certain stretches of it I'm Shea Street we've already had mentioned Amity Street so again Paul's right we have to be judicious about these for our time our use of staff time but this is something that's been around for a while and we should either fish or cut bait if we're really not interested in this we should just say so and just say it's done or we should at least at some point in the next month or so see if we can get better information and also amongst our constituents and in our own notes make a list of streets that we have heard about that we'd like some input from at least the police department about what could be done if anything and whether this kind of broad brush approach or use of this particular statute is appropriate Paul yeah I think what will be I think an educational session would be useful I think what's important to understand is how speed limits get set you don't get to just pick a number there is a you know you have to there's a study that gets done you usually have to align it with the State Department of Transportation the logic of that is that people from wherever they're driving you have to have certain expectations on what what the speed is going to be in a certain area and then there's some and this is what the study is being done for Henry Street is like how many accidents have there been what is there evidence other than just people complaining that there is an issue with speed so there's and I think it's important to understand that because the engineers can't just willingly do things they they have a they have a uniform manual of traffic control devices and what you're allowed to put where because there needs to be that predictability and throughout the state or nationwide and we have experts in that on our DPW staff so they can address that and it'll help you understand you know someone says I'd like it be 10 miles an hour in front of my house it's like that's just not an option right because whatever reason but it's better for better than me trying to explain it to you having the experts explain it to you and what is what are the what's the process for adjusting those speed limits and identifying hot button issues and then what are the you know other places you know enforcement is another tool that we have and and the chief acting term chief can update you on how those how that usually pans out because we've done that you know this is not none of these issues are new the town's been struggling with them and it's in every town you know the same issues pop up you see it happening in our neighboring towns all the time without speeding on their on their roads so so I think I can work with the chair about scheduling something with the someone from police and some from from DPW to share that information I think that that's I think you'll find that really interesting actually okay so we will go forward with that so those are the issues that were in the carryover memo I think that oh there was the street streetlight policy and there was a statement at the in the streetlight policy section that said TSO will continue their review following receipt of the town manager's recommended policy that because what we were finding was is that this was a policy that that was because of it ended up it needed to be implemented by staff and there needed to be funds and there were technical questions as to what was a feasible approach and so it was uh I think that the counselor sponsors which are counselor panicky and the counselor Dublin got here are interested in moving this forward but we're waiting to see what the staff recommendation would be and I don't know if you Paul or Gilford anything to say so again this is one of the things that got referred to the DPW so we've just talked about about four things that are on the DPW's plate so this is where we're trying working with staff to sort of manage the time and expectations for the council so you know when everything can't be done this month um and so we just want to set expectations on when you can expect to see things this is in in our court the street lighting thing it's also one of those topics as Gilford has started to dig into it more and um counselor Hanakie sent uh additional links from information she gathered at the MMA annual meeting um that you know you start to peel the onion and it becomes it's very complex and there's I think there's not it depends on you know it's just trying to develop information for the council because I'm not sure where the council exactly is on this on this topic but I'll get a time we can talk this through and we look at all the other things on the agenda for DPW and building a new water treatment plant and things like that they're also important on when they'll be able to get to these things Jennifer yeah so I guess I'm so so the street lighting is still in TSO it hasn't moved okay it got referred I think I can address it so last year TSO referred it are they didn't refer it they recommended the council as the town manager for staff input um and so it's it's with Paul for staff input and it will come back to TSO once the council receives that draft from Paul so it's still with TSO but it's not ready for TSO to be taken up yeah feel free so we do have the we do have the draft that you guys have looked at last and we've been talking to our vendor about how to meet the requirements or meet some of the requirements that are in it and can we meet some of the requirements with our existing lights and how to upgrade the lights and so forth and we're working on that and that'll probably take a couple months to get through all that I have been talking to um counselor Hannake about it as well and she's been keeping me up to date on the things that she's looking at and being um things that she's looking at to try to help meet the requirements of it as well so it is being moved forward it's it is a bigger it is pretty interesting con conversation and um we are looking at it just so you know so you're working uh you don't have a date and we're not asking for a date when you'll be back but you are working on it uh Jennifer uh and this is the time to ask the question but I still had a question about the town gown working partnership and the participatory budgeting can I ask that now or should I wait till the end of the meeting I think uh is there any we need to draw this to a close and it's given to identified new issues but go ahead no I just because this was the first time I had actually you know again because I haven't been on the committee seen that it was referred so I just want to clarify that I'm understanding it correctly is this was this a suggestion that there we form a committee of town and gown to discuss how the two entities could work together on okay so yeah I just appreciate some clarification sure so I think it's important to understand what participatory budgeting is but that means is that there's a sum of money set aside out of the town's budget to do certain things and or some other source of funding and I think that that was the concept of Cambridge for instance has a very robust for participatory budgeting the town has never had money to set aside to participate to do this this model of budgeting where the members of the public come in and choose how to budget things and that's where I think this sort of you know is included into the town charter because it's an interesting idea but in terms of finances the town's never been in a position where where it said we now want to put a million dollars aside instead of putting take putting into our budget we're going to let have this done through a different process what we've done instead is did the capital request is residents can submit capital requests through our online you know we have resident capital request options that people can do the same type of thing so follow question yes yeah so this has nothing to do with a pilot no no where the other partners might put up the money I don't know I you know I honestly don't know what the participatory budgeting committee with that concept came from so I don't really know what that is or is about thank you I think the thing that might be useful is being able to look at the participatory budgeting commissions report to the council from the first term because that's where this arose so get that back into the packet as soon as we can find it I think that's the best way to address it that's going forward other as I said earlier we have going through the we've talked about the speed limit update we need to do public comment which I will do in a moment and upcoming agenda items we should have an opportunity for all of you to see what you would like to see on future agendas that is not there so but first let me see if there's anybody who is a member of the public who would like to have a few minutes to make a presentation of an issue that's relevant to the committee that is the standard part of our meetings for all committees and for the council so I invite members who are in the audience to raise their hand if they would like to offer public comment today I see no hands having been raised so I think at this point we can go on to that last question that I raised are there other issues that people would like to see on future agendas that have not been discussed George Councilor Ryan I've gotten a number of inquiries about our snow and ice bylaw and the procedures and what the expectations are and so I would like us to see if we can get some clarity about what people are required to do I walk a fair amount in my neighborhood and it's it gets pretty treacherous I've gotten some special shoes now so I can make my way up Amity Street and down and so I'm sure I'm not the only person who has this problem and so I don't know what our role is in this but people have been asking me and so I would like us to perhaps give some thought to that or at least find out what we can tell people I've already mentioned the TSO website and I would like it to be more robust but that's something perhaps we can discuss at a future point and I'd also like us to see if we could have a discussion perhaps invite members of the council of aging but I'd like us as a committee since we deal with town services to learn a bit more about the age and dementia study and what is being done and how that's being implemented more information than anything else and an opportunity for the senior community to address us as a committee about the services that they receive and what they are getting and what they would like to get so I guess three things the TSO website and how it could be more robust I'd like to see if we could talk a little bit more about this I could learn more about the snow and ice bylaw and get clarity with that and thirdly I would like us to look at the age and dementia study and invite members of the senior community perhaps council of aging to have a just a conversation or three things that I would like us to consider at some point. Thank you Jennifer. Yes well first just to respond to George, GOL took up snow and ice removal and obstacles to the public way we strengthened and revised that bylaw and it's now actually within the inspections department so I don't know if we'd want to maybe ask Rob just to come in and say a few words about that because it is a little different and we really tried to address that and be able to strengthen enforcement and be very clear on what the property owner is adjacent to the sidewalks what their responsibility is. I agree with Georgia would be I would really like to address senior services so a presentation on that would be I think would be terrific and also I guess in terms of the waste taller bylaw if the report was going to be done at the end of February we don't have another meeting until March 14th so if we could look to the March 14th TSO meeting to have the report from the from Guilford that would be terrific. February 15th meeting schedule on the list. There's a February yeah I don't know if he would be done then he said the end of February so maybe we could look to the March meeting. Yeah that's great. First meeting in March. Okay so you bring the waste taller back then. Is there anybody who's objecting to the idea of spending some time getting a brief report on snow and ice if it's available Paul do you have any comments on that? I guess I don't know what the question is and we have a new bylaw there's a process for people to file complaints. I think there's this sense that people don't really know what the responsibility is. For instance on Amity Street there are whole sections that are icy people don't clear it. The town comes and plows it which is nice that's appreciated but it's not down to the surface that freezes the snow becomes compacted it becomes icy and no one puts sand out no one of the property owners on Amity Street except the I find at least some closer to downtown so I think maybe there's also a role for us as counselors simply to be a more proactive through district meetings through our newsletters trying to get people to be more conscientious more aware but it's treacherous at least in my neck of the woods and nobody seems to pay attention to or care about our bylaw so we have this new bylaw it's been strengthened but it is meaningless we can't enforce it people don't know about it and so yeah that's that's the problem it's just I think people have to file complaints so it can be enforced they would do that through C click fix or just call DPW no it's not DPW it's under inspection services now so we could be help people understand the process that would be useful can we ourselves as counselors do that sure we can we can forward you so somebody's complains and I can forward that complaint or I can I can act with that okay so really through inspections is the way that you have to complain I think what we'd like to hear at least I would like to hear from Rob or someone is whether this is there's any realistic chance given staffing demands etc for them to actually enforce this it yeah that may be the problem it's you complain all you want but there's nobody that's going to enforce it and so I need to hear from somebody about whether there's any possibility of enforcement because I don't hear of any enforcement I've never heard of anyone ever having I can check to see if they're I'm sorry go ahead Paul I'm sorry I can check this is see if there have been any complaints I haven't heard of any complaints being filed so there can't be enforcement without complaints okay all right and if you have any guidance or Rob Bora has any advice about how to file a complaint that's most efficient and useful that would be good because people need to know where to call but we don't want to overload inappropriate people or to do it in an inefficient manner Jennifer yeah I mean some of it may we could start with just really I mean again informing the counselors because we have new counselors so I had a resident right last week and because I was on GOL sort of up to date on it and I referred this the resident to Rob and Rob immediately responded it was an issue on East Pleasant Street so I think some of it is bringing all the counselors up to speed and we can include it in our correspondence and I don't know if there's any does the town ever send out correspondence to residents I guess it's just bills but so it might just help I'm sorry in a bill but um for for the counselors to start with bringing all the counselors up to speed yes I Rob was immediately responsive when he inspection services when he got received the complaint from the resident right so our tool of enforcement is to charge is to issue $50 tickets to whoever is responsible for the sidewalk and I think in this case he called it was a commercial establishment and me okay I think that is very helpful so what I would like to do is meet with the vice chair and the town manager at an appropriate time and try and start developing an agenda plan for the committee of each meeting what it is that we seek to do and try and start doing the actual committee planning for agendas and that would be the the next step we would take is there anything else that people would like to raise today because if not I think we probably think is there anything else that you think that we need to do before for Paul before we adjourn no I think you're good so I that point looking to raise hands to see if there's any last minute thoughts people have otherwise I think that we are adjourned I will work with Athena and Paul to set up a meeting time that works that can involve the councilor Ryan and myself and we will take the information discussion today and try and do a first step at a plan for the committee for how we'll move on these issues and what the schedule is so that said I think we're ready to adjourn and committee is adjourned thank you thank you thank you