 Hello everyone, good morning, good afternoon or good evening depending on where in the world you're zooming in from. Welcome to our Hyperledger member in-depth webinar with Cripsy and their partner Cloud4C. We're happy to have you here and we're just going to wait a couple of minutes to give everybody a chance to join. While we wait, I would encourage everybody to use the chat button to say hello and tell us where you're zooming in from. I'm zooming in from Boston, Massachusetts and it's very exciting because our panelists for today are zooming in live from HIMS conference in Orlando. Hello everyone, good morning, good afternoon or good evening everybody depending on where in the world you're zooming in from. We're just going to wait a couple of minutes to give everybody a chance to join and then we're going to start with our webinar for today. While we wait, I would encourage everybody to use the chat button and say hello and tell us where you're zooming in from. We see a few people here saying hello. Yeah, got somebody from Toronto there. We got our Canadian friends, we got our US friends, I've got somebody out of Michigan as well. It's great. Wow, right across the pond from India. Mumbai India. Hello, welcome. Hello, welcome. So I think we can get started now. So hello everybody again and welcome for joining us live today. Today we have a very exciting session for you, because we have our hyperledger member Cripsy joining us live from HIMS conference in Orlando, along with this very special guest appearance cloud foresee. My name is Tomas and I'm an ecosystem manager at the hyperledger foundation. Today I'm going to have a chance to introduce our panelists and also thank you through some housekeeping. So first, and if you joined any of our other webinars in the past, you know that we have some housekeeping. First of all, I would like to emphasize that everybody is welcoming the hyperledger community and we strive to create a safe and welcoming environment for everybody. So please follow our code of conduct when interacting with each other on the webinar or in the community more general as well. You can find our code of conduct on our website and also on the key. All of the hyperledger foundation webinars are held under the LF Linux foundation antitrust policy because they include industry competitors. And you can find our entity test policy on our website and on our wiki as well. This session is being recorded and it will be later available on our YouTube channel as well as in our webinar library, along with the slides so you can always download those. We, we are also live on YouTube and LinkedIn live so welcome also everybody joining us from there. Now we encourage these webinars to be very active and the more active everybody is the better experience for everybody so feel free to raise your hand and I will unmute you and then you can ask your questions to the panelists. If you would prefer not to speak you can also use the Q&A box and the panelists will either type the questions or answer it live. And you can also use the chat button to get your questions answered. Now, without further ado, it is my pleasure to introduce our panelists for today. So we have Emal Rustemi, director of business development at Cripsy, who is joined by Rocco Monteleone and Miguel Vilces who are with their partners from Cloud4C joining us live from Orlando, Florida. And we also have the Mohit Seti who is a VP technology and research at Cripsy. And it is my great pleasure to have this webinar today and without further ado, Emal, over to you. Great. Thank you, Tomas. Thank you for the warm introduction. I just want to make one slight correction. We had a last minute change up. Instead of Miguel, we have Sama Secander here. If you want to do a quick introduction. Hi, good morning everyone. Good afternoon. Good evening. My name is Osama and I'm the VP of Pre-Sales for Cloud4C. It's a pleasure being here. We actually replaced a superstar with an even larger superstar for our live stream today. So we're in good hands, my friends. And we're live, as Tomas said, at the HEMS conference, which is the healthcare information and management system society conference. It's here in Orlando. It's from March 11 to March 15. It's actually the largest healthcare information management conference. It is. This is definitely one of the larger ones. There's another event that happens in Dubai as well. This one here today. I think we got about 30,000 attendees. So there's a lot of movement, a lot of people, a lot of great technologies that are being exposed here. And we're just happy to be a part of it. Absolutely. It's almost like a mini city to some degree. Healthcare players of all types. We've been hearing a lot of interesting thoughts and ideas about what priorities, what initiatives healthcare organizations have. And, you know, one of our focuses is to help organizations manage your data a little bit more effectively and look at the security standards and measures they have and make sure they're up to date. Make sure they're aligned with the leading trends to be as secure as they can be. You know, when we're talking about it over the past few days, we, you know, when we look at healthcare data management, we're wondering why it's so important to, to look at this area and why we need to make sure security standards are up to par. You know, a few different areas we've, you know, took into consideration this patient confidentiality, right? If you're looking at some of the personal information, you're dealing with whether it's talking about medical history, whether it's talking about diagnosis and treatment. This could be very sensitive information. One, you know, from a subjective standpoint, right? You know, I, for example, wouldn't feel so comfortable giving my information out to anybody and everybody. But the other side of the point is, you want to be able to give some information out maybe, because it could be beneficial for a healthcare community, right? Absolutely. I mean, it doesn't matter which vertical you do look at. I mean, other verticals like securities front and center with any vertical that you deal with, whether it's retail, finance, but even more so when you're dealing with healthcare. It's very personal to patients and whatnot. And they take, you know, they take issue. These, this is personal information. This is health information that's out there. So we have to make sure that we secure it. We harden it. And one of the interesting technologies that's available today is blockchain. It's in its infancy, you know, it's still at the, at the adoption stage of thing, but there is more and more of an interest within blockchain to use it to secure and harden environments in terms of when it comes to personal health information. So, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's not just looking at the application and use cases itself, right? We have to look at the overall impact of it, right? We think about like some hospitals being hit with ransomware. You know, if they're they're holding on to the data of the patients and the doctors, the physicians, they're not able to access that. They are implicated in this case is a life in that situation. Absolutely. And it makes it even more important to ensure that the right individuals, the right teams have access and control over that data. Right. Completely agree. I mean, when you look at some of the breaches that are happening at, you know, specifically to the US, I mean, you're looking at approximately about $10 million per breach is the average. You know, and it's growing. And I get it. It's a big concern for us. You know, we take a very holistic view of how we secure the environment. You know, we definitely look at the people side of it. People are the weakest link at the end of the day. We look at the processes that are involved and the underlying technology that's available for us to use and blockchain brings an element of really excitement. Yes, it's new, but in terms of the innate qualities that it has in terms of being able to secure the data for for healthcare patients is becoming more and more acceptable. I always tell that whenever you have a new technology, and those of you who remember when we look at cloud, go back a dozen years and people used to look at me and say, Are you are you kidding me? You want me to move my data, my workloads? Remember that? Yeah, they'd say take the workloads from my on prem from my data center and move them where into the cloud. So that was like almost alien to them. And it's the same thing. It's the same thing that's happening with blockchain. And it is new. However, it's slowly evolving. And what you're finding is, and what I tell some of our clients is, you know, take baby steps. Some of the things we do is again, there's there's there's simple pilot programs that you can do. You can do proof of values where you're working with, let's say, non sensitive data, non mission critical where you can test, get comfortable. It's it was the exact same thing we did with cloud. And it applies to blockchain technology as well. Simple baby steps is the way to go to get things moving. Absolutely. You know, you guys brought up a good point about patient privacy. And, you know, the fact that there's still a lot of cyber attacks in the healthcare space. I don't know. I think it was a few weeks ago, we saw that United Health Care Group got attacked. Right. And when you're when you're thinking about patient data. Yes, to some degree, it does make patients uncomfortable to have that data disclose publicly. But beyond that, it could result in a life and death situation. Right. When you're dealing with identity theft related concerns, you're dealing with potentially patient discrimination. Let's be honest, that's still a concern between practitioners and patients. And lastly, it's the emotional distress. Who's dealing with my data. How are they dealing with it. Right. And we want to make sure we're mitigating any discomfort any concerns that patients have. Right. And that's where blockchain, I think, is going to be really, really impactful. Right. Setting up those frameworks, setting up those protocols as networks to really protect the data and to really help patients practitioners increase efficiencies. But I think when I think about blockchain, there's three words I think about it. And I frame it as I was telling you yesterday, Rocco, it's TTI, trust, transparency and mutability. Transparency is always a very sensitive topic, especially when we're talking about meeting HIPAA standards and GDPR. Don't forget to pip it on Canada. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got to represent Canada as well here, right. Of course, 100%. Yeah, so these are very, very real concerns. When you're dealing with data transmission also are you doing it in a compliant fashion. Right. Are you and it's always very, very tough when you're dealing with large data sets, like patient data. But you have to handle it almost at an acute level. So how are we doing that in a way that's low cost, and we're doing it seamlessly. Well, that's where blockchain comes in. Right. If you look at, you know, current systems current data systems, and we talked about one hospital network, where some of them are still dealing with very, very old firmware, right, where they're not, you have a old firmware antiquated systems that cause a lot of headaches. It's anytime you have old technology in place. Again, it just opens the door for breaches. Those are security concerns and gaps, right. And again, these are some of the areas that, you know, we'll touch upon that blockchain can definitely address. Yeah, and it's definitely prohibitive when you start thinking about, you know, innovation, because if you're not innovating, you're pretty much being left behind. Yeah, some of these arcade systems, you know, they're not able to map, they're not able to integrate, and they're not able to use that data for the way purposes. 100%. And the other thing you got to think about as well. And again, even if you zoom out again, you know, we were just kind of touching on a use case there, but some of the other areas that it's quite applicable and it really has a perfect fit for is supply chain. There is a fake medicine, fake pharmaceuticals that are not authentic out there. What if we had a system that can trace the point of origin, all the way down through the series of steps before as soon as it gets to the patient. So now you have a blockchain technology as an example, where you'll be able to track exactly the point of origin, the manufacturer where the pharmaceutical was made, step by step, as it gets routed right down to the pharmacy to the patient. And you'll know every point in time as to where that pharmaceutical took to get to the patient itself. How beautiful is that that that's such a technology again, it's something that again, there's companies that are pushing this that want this to evolve. There is a marketplace for it. And it's just a beautiful use case. I'm glad you brought that up rocker that's actually one of my favorite use cases within healthcare and beyond. Yeah, I've seen it. I see it as an industry agnostic solution, but particularly for healthcare. I mean just think what happens if you have counterfeit, or, you know, when you have drugs flown through supply chain, and it gets tampered with. And that's again, a life and death situation. We want to try and mitigate that. Right. So we're talking about the manufacturer and the distribution, being able to effectively in real time as well. Right. In today's supply chain system. There's a delayed effect right and as I like to say being from New York time is money to some degree, you get in and you get real time say that in Toronto. I can't trademark that. But you know when you're when you're looking at that real time access to data, at least from what I've seen will create efficiencies by 20 to 30% in terms of cost savings right. And you know, there's a few different solutions we've seen in the markets, particularly that are using hyper ledger, the hyper ledger network. Medi connect is a, it's a great platform that's tracking the journey of pharmaceuticals from the manufacturer down to the pharmacies down through retail organizations out there. It's a beautiful solution. You're creating transparency where all stakeholders in the supply chain ecosystem can access to data. See the appropriate data that's good for their that's necessary for their organization so you have privacy concerns being addressed. You have standard protocols and standard regulations being complied with, which is really really great. But you know let's, you know, speaking of Medi connect and speaking of the hyper ledger network. This is a hyper ledger foundation. I, you know, I think it's good to talk about the benefits of leveraging the hyper ledger fabric network. You know, how does it compare to other networks. What is it like dealing with public first permission to private networks, and I'm going to put moheed on the spot here. But I love for moheed, who's our VP of solutions and has a lot of expertise in this field. If you could share some insight on that movie that'd be great. Yeah, I am. Thanks. Am I audible. Yes, yeah, you are loud and clear. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So, see the perspective of talking about the field of medical and then talking about blockchain whether it is public or private. So the very first thing is most of the public chains have different types of consensus protocol. They, they are mainly developed to solve another problem. But here we are talking about the field of medicine, medical and enterprises. So it's only what comes to my mind or and I think anyone who have been deep into the block, it's only hyper ledger fabric, which is not only for the enterprises but also the scale and the privacy parameters. Most of the blockchains again, they have something with this consensus protocol which is suited for a particular case in hyper ledger fabric it is like for our use case we could define what is the endorsement policy in the internet we are defining how the, how the consensus should be should be based on the business behavior, not a common global behavior. This are like one of the basic foundation privacy is very important. Like everyone would have known about how hyper ledger is scalable we can we just need to tune the infrastructure outboard and it is available, but certain things like private data collections which will be very handy in terms of medical field, because GDPR and other regulatory aspects, it makes things very complicated because the true nature of blockchain is transparency and immutability, which goes against the foundation of a typical GDPR and the privacy right becomes. So how to have the benefit of blockchain angle immutability and also preserve privacy, ensuring customer data is protected, it is completely authorized it is only between the organizations or the hospitals like in our case, who have authorization to see plus a common platform is able to track, where and all this data have moved. These are the basics for building any privacy sensitive application on blockchain, so there is nothing else to put apart from hyper ledger fabric and then we have so many tools and SDKs across multiple languages, the ecosystem have evolved. I've been working since 0.6 when it was just in alpha and 1.0.2.0 and now we will have 3.0. So always the upgrades are made for benefiting the adoption challenges, high efficiency and the enterprise good adoption. So this is a nutshell but I would be happy to answer anything in technical if you want to know more about the patent. Yeah. So you touch upon privacy within, you know, when you're dealing with fundamentally a public based network right blockchain grew on on the basis of decentralization and public public representation to some degree right and and what I love about the hybrid fabric network, you know, the fact that you have a private permission network, you're kind of having the best of both worlds. Correct. And right now, Rocky, you mentioned a great point, we've spoken for hours on this. Yesterday, I mean we could have, I tired myself out talking about it. It's, we're an early adoption to some degree. And it's, it's a scary new technology to adopt. Let's be frank. But what we'll think about it, think about it. All right, so you have somebody that let's say is not too keen on blockchain there. They're trying to understand the technology and because even myself like I'm an old school guy, right. And I come from the days where I used to have a centralized database, a centralized server. That's where everything will serve or they had your applications your workload and whatnot. So what I like about if now you start talking about all these nodes, they're all over globally, right. So you're now getting into the decentralized. Sometimes it's a bit of a difficult concept for people to basically grasp on to. So this is why we always recommend that they take those baby steps because there are various technologies in terms of blockchain that are available. We can look at public solution, we can look at a private blockchain, we can even look at a hybrid solution. You know, I come from the hybrid days where I believe sometimes a balance of both is the better option for a client, or for an institution. But the options are there. It's just taking the right steps for it to slowly get adopted to get comfortable with it. And the technology is here. It's not something in the distant future. Right. It's happening now. And I don't think it's going away anytime soon. You know, the way I compare blockchain technology adoption is, it's the internet of today. Right. You know, in the 90s when people were promoting the internet, they saw the benefits. They saw the efficiencies we could drive. But everybody's like, well, my partner, my neighbor's not on it yet. We have to give it time. It's, it's, you know, my mother still to this day says I'm too impatient at times. This is the one area I'm learning to practice patients. And, you know, if you demonstrate the value, if you show your organizations, how this works. And the best way to do it is just offer POC. Let him play with it, even with a private permission network, where you're not seeing necessarily the benefits of a public network. You're still seeing real time access to data. You know, it's a collaborative tool. You're able to instantaneously leverage the data with partners like, for example, in a hospital network, you have two or three doctors maybe collaborating on one patient. Correct. Just think right now with siloed systems, how, how many delays you have, and hospital networks don't obviously want to disclose this, but we know there's delays here and there and assessing and diagnosing patients. I think we could reduce that time down just by 10%. I would love to see how many lives you could save transform people's health statuses and standards. And that's just the beginning of it. Once you start to scale and bring more partners in the ecosystem. I think the benefits are going to be tremendous. We're going to see exponential ROI numbers. Just to add to a couple points, I remember like, you know, like you said a couple of times, you know, our data center days, we had actual crash cards there, you know, for server going offline, right? So run around, plug into it, right? But yes, the challenges that I've seen is that a lot of it has to do with education. Right. They, when people hear blockchain, they might think about decentralized in somebody's basement sitting on the server. But we have to slowly chase that perception, right? We have to show them that they're there, you know, with the educate them, there are options and how that can help them, right? And then that can tie into the whole POC, right? That's right. The best way to learn is to get your hands on the keyboard and hey, this is how it works. You know, so this is not going away. You're looking at what it's about $100 billion, let's say, in cybersecurity out there. You got $100 billion on artificial intelligence. Blockchain, what are we at? The number I recall, I think we're at about $5 billion in market. I think it is roughly. So it's it's suddenly growing. It's a technology that's here to stay. And here, let's throw another element to all this. What about artificial intelligence? You know, now you have AI, all right, which is again, fairly new. People are a little uneasy about it. And if you combine that or marry it up with blockchain, the possibilities are endless. So now you have some of these new up and coming technologies where you have the benefits of both worlds. And what happens is when you're looking at blockchain itself, you have that securing the path of where the point of origin, where the data is coming from. Think about this. You have artificial intelligence where you have a lot of these engines as I like the column, these models ingest all this data. Now, if we're talking specifically, forget about all the other bird, let's talk healthcare, where you're ingesting sensitive data. Okay, you're taking all this PHI data, this patient health information that's being ingested into an artificial intelligence model or engine. And it's taking that data to maybe, maybe it's, it's for a lab or a preventative medicine medicine where they're looking at all these x-rays, for example. Now, wouldn't you want to make sure that you had a technology that the data that is coming in is secure? What a beautiful use case and case study you could have for blockchain to handle that security of bringing that data to make sure it is secure, it is authentic. And it's coming for reliable sources into the engine, the artificial intelligence to do its modeling and whatnot. Yeah, one of the lesser things, like you touched on this, right, so one of the lesser things that are talked about is the control that's given to the actual patient. So now the patient has their data in their hands and they can basically approve or reject who gets access to their data. Yeah, power to the patient. Exactly. Power to the patient, yeah. That's right. And speaking of that, it brings up a use case solution we've seen in the markets. It's a meta ledger, right, which is a base, it was developed in the US as a platform, another one built on a hyper ledger fabric network and empowers patients to essentially control their own medical data. Yeah, right. This goes back to what we talked about before. This comfort and concern about how your data is being leveraged. Now if you ask me frankly speaking, you know, do I want everybody to know about my medical history? Not necessarily, right? It might give me a little bit of trouble getting an insurance policy. But as far as if you told me, hey, we're going to use this data set, one, two, three to help with cancer. But you want to protect your anonymity, right? I want to make sure, hey, absolutely use my information, but I want to remain anonymous. Exactly. I mean, that's my privacy. That's my data. But I want my data, let's say to be used for research. Right. Or maybe potentially ingesting into an artificial intelligence engine that's out there that's going to look for anomalies, right? Let's say in lab results or in x-rays as I pointed to earlier. So the possibilities are endless. And I really believe that it's just a beautiful marriage of the two when you have blockchain and artificial intelligence, the best of both worlds coming together. You know, you made this point a few days. We actually all talked about this, about AI, because, you know, when when Rocco mentioned AI, you guys didn't see it, but a few participants turned their heads immediately, right? It is turning heads. It is the buzzword of our time in this moment. And so when we're looking at AI, we're looking at large language models. And I've already seen some articles about what the data that's going in is creating biased information. What did we talk about before? We talked about discrimination. I could see that being a huge concern. But if you have a decentralized system where it's trustless where I might not know you, but we're validating something, verifying it with integrity, then we don't have to worry about what comes out on the end. And we're not doing damage control anymore. You know, the best way to mitigate damage controls through preparing, right? And making sure you're aligned, right? No, I agree with that because I see little concerns, but again, they're addressable, right? Where you have these artificial intelligence, a lot of these companies up in company that are building these beautiful models and whatnot. And again, the important thing is, is the data reliable? Is the data clean? You know, make sure that it's not tainted, it's not dirty, it hasn't tampered with it. And this is where blockchain plays a very important role to make sure that that origin, that source before it gets, once it gets to the point of destination, that it is reliable data. It's pretty much tampered proof, right? Correct. It's beautiful, right? And that way, you know, that's the big word, immutable. Yeah, so if anyone's trying to tamper with, let's say, a node, that's going to absolutely have more effect because the other nodes already have that record. And that's something that you can go in and change just because of the encryption sitting on top of it. Correct. Yeah. And then you know what that actually caused on the, we were talking about the, the pharmaceutical use case where we're able to track the ingredients, track the ingredients, track the cost. This is actually increasingly beneficial for government agencies that are trying to pass laws and bills because then they can understand the truth. In Canada, we have public health care, right? So, you know, we cannot have an organization say it costs X amount of dollars, but the government can just go in and see and track the costs of all the processes and the drugs that are coming in. And they can say, Hey, you know what, it actually costs as much as it's actually better for the patients in the end because they're not paying $1,000 per pill and they're paying maybe a couple of dollars. Absolutely. It's auditability. Auditability. Excuse me. Yeah, that's, that's always a tongue twister. I was practicing that word in the mirror last night. It didn't work out, but that's okay. But that's, that's truly will be all right. But that's really what it's about. Right. And that relates back to creating efficiency. If I'm able to track records of information uploaded. Well, I'm not worried about whether or not the person who put the date in is doing their due diligence is acting with integrity. I could move from point A to B quickly efficiently, and then probably have the time. Right. And it's it's it's been, you know, let's touch upon this conference here. I mean, we're live for a reason. Let's let's talk a little bit about, you know, how what reactions we've seen from, you know, participants here have come to our booth. We've talked to us about the subject. You know, at first they first look and they say, how are you guys looking at blockchain. And why is Cloud4C partnered on this blockchain initiative. So let's let's explore that a little bit. Sure, absolutely. I mean, you know, blockchain needs to sit on something. Are you saying we're plumbers now? Well, not just plumbers, but hey, that's a very important job also. Of course, that's the important job. I mean, the pipe's leaking in the house. I am not touching that. The first one I have to, I call it plummer immediately. Exactly. When the water is leaking, you're in trouble. No, so that's, and that's basically a good analogy. Because, you know, as Cloud4C, we are here to build the underlying infrastructure, the secure underlying infrastructure, which integrates across different partners that are involved in this. Wherever you're deploying your nodes, whether it's on premises, Microsoft, Amazon, GCP, we're there to deploy that infrastructure for my friend over here in the house and deploy his services. We're node builders. Yeah, we're the node builders. We're the node builders and we make sure they're secure. That's right. Call me anytime I'm available if you have a project, I'll jump right on it, right? And as far as the traffic we're seeing and just the reactions. It's one thing when somebody says, hey, I'll follow up with you. It's another thing when you see a genuine reaction. And I would say at least 80% of the people I spoke to have shown genuine interest. We've collected a lot of contacts and we're going to be following up with them. You know, it's when you mentioned patient data management, that turns out. I think the other big area which we talked about R&D, clinical trial management, right, being able to provide researchers. We just have different folk guide, right, but showing them all the data all at once creates increased collaboration allows you to think more effectively and assess more appropriately. And that's what we want. And we have to make sure healthcare is staying ahead of the game. I think at times, you know, one thought I've always had, or one thing I think about from time to time is, you know, the adoption rate we're seeing in healthcare versus under other industries. And I've always thought about how we can accelerate that a little bit more, right? You know, it's, I think it's easy. And you see this across most industries, right? Of course. We're happy with the way things are working right now. Yep. And then they start to see a few competitors come in and boom, they're playing a reactive game, right? How do we kind of change that? And then what are we thinking about doing to prevent that? Honestly, whether it's healthcare or any other vertical, like Sama and I have seen it all the time, sometimes people get comfortable. Yeah. They love status quo. You know, hey, it's the old, hey, it's not broken. We don't need to fix it. It's fine, leave it alone. And they remain stuck, right? And they are completely oblivious to all the new technologies that's out there. And you know, some of them have that mentality, it's working fine. Let's leave it alone. But if you don't spend a little bit of time to see what the other capabilities, what the other up and coming technologies are, you do fall behind, especially when it comes to innovation and technology. Look, I've used my approach with my customers and clients, potential clients has always been like baby steps are king. And always start with something that's non-critical, something that's non-sensitive and do a pilot. It's that simple, right? You do a pilot, you take something that's not going to have an impact. You're just staying day-to-day business where you can test, get comfortable with the technology. And that to me is the first step to getting exposed to the benefits of blockchain itself. I agree. No, I completely agree. And I think a big piece of that is just being on that status quo. And I've heard this from actually almost every single participant I've spoken to over here, that it's a maze. They've had sessions over here where they've tried to explain to attendees, you know, there's a lot of organizations that are out over here, different products and services, and they don't know where to start. And some of them, and we'll add to that, some of the larger companies out there feel threatened, believe it or not, by blockchain. When you look at companies like CERN, you look at companies like Epic, all right, these are large EMR companies, right? You know, you can take a step back and say to yourself, hmm, I like to have my hmm moment and say, okay, you know what? EMR is just digitized PHI records, right? At the end of the day, essentially. So what if you were to have a digitized version of all those EMR records all on blockchain? So there's a little bit of, they feel threatened by that because the technology does have potential. It does have a place. And sometimes you get a little bit of pushback because obviously it's invading their market. But there is a fit for blockchain as a use case, as a digitized EMR. I think really what is key here, it gives the power to the patient. I love that. It gives power to the patient once it's digitized and it's on the blockchain. No, I completely agree. You know, you have all these different providers of EHR EMR and, you know, they want to go out to the data. They want to provide that value to their customers, right? But when it comes to integration, interoperability, that's when you're one of the challenges. You have a doctor sitting in one clinic and a doctor in another clinic and then you just try to get that file across. Imagine cheating physicians, you know, you're moving and now you have to figure out a way and pay, you know, like bottles how much just to get that transfer record, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Blockchain, all you possibly could do is, hey, you know what? You load access from that clinic and you give access to this clinic. For the patient. Yeah, absolutely. Makes perfect sense to me. I'd love to hear Mohit's thoughts on what we're talking about here. Mohit, as far as... Mohit, the three musketeers are doing a fantastic job. I need a little bit more muscle here. Come on. We need the muscle. The muscle here. But yeah, from your side, what are you seeing in terms of, let's call it intimidation or hesitation to adopt, right? And how have you combated that with your time promoting blockchain? If he's... He might still be on mute. Is Mohit with us? He might be... You're on mute, Mohit. Let's see. I ask Mohit to unmute. Let's see if it's there. And in the meantime, we do have one question from Hector. I don't know. Can you see the chat or... Yeah. So there is a question here. So let me just read it out. I believe that's the way we do it, Tomás. Yes. That's the best. And Mohit will hopefully join us in the meantime. We have a question from Hector Torres. So it says here, what is the specific use case where you all have implemented a blockchain solution? Mm-hmm. Did it strengthen the patient, the physician and the patients? And did it address patient digital onboarding? Where their specific CPT codes tied to your solution? How did it empower the patient? And how does it address patient engagement? Sorry, my eyes are going dead. Yeah. There it is. So there is one use case, I think that might... It's actually a case study that we've done with the client. So what we had was, it was a beautiful solution where we had a client of ours. And what they had done was they needed help. They had antiquated technology. This is a client that we have within the wellness. It's in preventative medicine. Again, very sensitive data with our customers. So they do a lot of scans, a lot of lab work. They have all this, you know, blood work analysis, x-rays, MRIs, CACs, all this sensitive data that they collect. And they're into the preventative medicine. So what happened was they had a customer where again, a number of these, these, these clinics we find they use a lot of antiquated systems. The technology is dated, very messy, a lot of paperwork. And they came to us and they said, look, we need help. We need help. So what we had done was we helped basically consolidate a lot of this information that they had. And again, in a very secure, hardened way where we brought it onto an Azure data link. All right. And we brought the data there. We hardened the environment, the security environment. And then we created another set of blockchain principles and solutions where the customer was able to engage and have access to give permission, permission to basically release their information and say, hey, you can use this. And we're all done in a very secure way. Now there's other projects that are evolving with this client. And again, that was an instance where we slowly, and this is what's key, where we slowly introduced blockchain into a clinic, wellness clinic to start using it as a secure channel for the customer to have access to his data. One more use case that we have solid Asia where has to deal with the actual onboarding of the patient. Yes. So there's an actual mobile application, you know, any of the devices or even on your laptop's desktop. Just install that application, create an account, you log in, and then your camera will basically scan your facial features. And what it does that it does like a pre diagnosis. So that's basically a mix of AI also. There's an analysis being done. And then there's the onboarding because even before you step into the clinic, the clinicians, the physicians, the relevant team members that already have the recommended information from the artificial intelligence spot. And then they, all they have to do is they come in, they walk in, and there's a preliminary report already created. And that ties in with the onboarding question that Hector asked there, right? Again, if there is an ease of use, everybody's got a phone. And why not use this for, in this case, for preventative medicine, where it'll take a scan of your face and start doing pre diagnosis, take all that data that's important critical data and ingested into an artificial engine to actually make a good sense of it and use it for wellbeing for other patients. It's a beautiful thing. Again, as we said, blockchain, AI, beautiful marriage. So we've talked a little bit about patient onboarding. You know, from, with regards to onboarding, I'd love to speak about practitioner onboarding, particularly for the home care services market. So that's where we gained a lot of traction. We've developed a few solutions, we've developed a few solutions for players, not only in the Canadian market, but also in the U.S. So you have home care service providers who need to be onboarded. Now, if you're an organization that's based in, let's say, Colorado or Arizona, and you're providing services all the way out to Florida, right? We are in Orlando. Now you have a home care service provider who needs to be verified. His or her credentials need to be verified. You have to fly this person to one of your offices. You have to have an auditor verify all this information. This can get very costly. Let's talk about the manual processes to schedule the appointment. That takes a few weeks to pay for the flight hotel. You can easily see a cost of anywhere from 2400 to 2800 USD per practitioner onboard. Now, when you look at a digital video identification, identity verification solution, right? So you guys took a flight over here. If you've noticed the TSA is using the video recognition technologies. Very similar technology we've designed and except what we've done is we've added the blockchain network for verifying some of the details, right? So, and it's not only just for that, we're looking at scaling the solution for logging practitioner activity. Every time a practitioner makes a visit, that's a lot because of her details. Well, you know, in terms of liability concerns, let's say God forbid something goes wrong five months down the line and it could have been due to, you know, an activity in month one of caring for the patient. Now, you know, you're dealing with a system that's immutable. You don't have the question of the ability of the data. We're able to create clear conclusions on what happened and move forward to the next one, right? Completely agree. Yeah, you know, there's, there's a lot of use cases. We can sit here for hours. Somebody use cases. And again, it's not just fantasy anymore. This is happening now. Yeah. And more and more the adoption is happening. Yes, it's so early, but it's happening like all the other technologies in the past and we're seeing it. And again, it's really a matter of talking to your customers talking to your clients and getting to a point where you can do those baby steps and do those proof of valleys of pilots are great. You know, don't use sensitive data to start with. And it's the best way we found to get them introduced to blockchain and AI. Yeah. Don't forget that one, right? Now let's talk a little bit about how you demonstrate the value. I think we've, we've done a great job of demonstrating the value to our partners. But when we're speaking to clients or we're speaking to prospective partners. Yeah, yeah. Sorry to interrupt. Oh yeah, please go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things was quite interesting what I was listening to. So when it comes to hyper ledger fabric and any of the use cases, privacy and the scalability that those are one factors, but when we take a business use case and put it right, where it is for a user onboarding different types of user onboarding, it actually sets the stage where a platform is created. So we start with thinking about creating a platform and implementing in a use case. It doesn't stop there. It helps us to strengthen it and then keep adding new and new use cases. Yeah. That's one of the benefit of because all the three parties are there in the ecosystem or three or more parties and then using channels and PDC, we can create aggregation and we can keep onboarding new and new use cases. So advantage here is we have the same user profile, same patient data with all the privacy features. We could have multiple applications. They could leverage and then even mine this data for the benefit of the user. It reduces the cost. It reduces the initial effects which we have incurred for deployment because now we are having more cases. More business cases. It's creating that snowball effect. Right. When they see the value, not particularly with a use case with the technology itself, they say where can this be applied beyond that. And that's where it gets really exciting at least for me. And I mean, that's why we've had so many conversations. Right. It wasn't, you know, I'll be frank. Rocco, Sam and I had conversations just not because we were prepping for the webinar call. It's because we're, it's just an interesting topic. We're exploring use cases. And we were talking about soccer. A little bit. Just a little bit. Yeah. Rocco is a Tottenham fan. I'm a Liverpool fan. So we had a little bit of an argument there, but we pivoted quickly back to healthcare, which is good. But yeah, I mean, it just, it makes you feel value to it. When you can go to an organization and really help them transform not just one or two areas of their business. All of their business models. And that's what we're aspiring to do. You know, partner together. I really do see the opportunities as being limitless in this space and in other spaces beyond, you know, I would say one last point. You know, as far as demonstrating the business value, so we're all engineers, correct? You love talking about the gadgets and gizmos, the features and benefits. What I've seen time and time again, this is for the partners in on, on the call who are wondering how you demonstrate value. And we've always talked about business value, but there's always a gray area between technical benefits, business benefits. How do you create a balance? And I think from what we've seen in our conversations, you really, really have to identify what the challenges are. Yeah. Now there's an array of challenges we've seen in healthcare, but really dissect and understand what's priority for them. Right. And then you will be able to find a way to integrate blockchain technology and infrastructure solution from your site, the plastic seaside, incorporate the analytical piece and the AI piece. And you have a package that I think will set you up for success for at least the volatility we're going to see in the next five years in digital transformation. Absolutely. Listen, I, I'm with you on that. And security is paramount. Whether you're looking at healthcare, whether you're looking at other verticals. Look, business value. How much is security breach going to cost you? Have you thought about that? Look at all the class action lawsuits that are happening with some of these healthcare providers, lab companies that do all the analysis. We had one in Canada again, multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit. You want to know business value? Look at the amount of money they're going to have to pay out. Right. Because of that suit. So you have to take a step back and really understand that look, the element of security that blockchain brings to the modern day world cannot be overlooked. It's here to stay. It's going to evolve. It's going to continue to grow. And the applications in terms of where you can use it. It's really from my point of view, in my perspective, it's countless. Yeah. It's, it's, it's numerous. Use cases that you can use for it. Yeah. I mean, you made a great point about how important is security. Everybody loves to say it's important, especially when we have those leadership strategy meetings. It's always bullet number two, three or four in terms of priorities. Yeah. So in terms of realistically setting up a contingency plan, once you get hit, how often, how often do we see organizations scrambling to, you know, mitigate the damage control. And even just the scrambling, the inefficiencies there, it's costly. Right. Everybody has a plan. The famous saying, you know, everybody has a plan until. If you're in the boxing ring, you get hit in the face. How do you, how do you, you know, react to it? How do you counter it? And it's not just about creating a good plan. It's about creating a good contingency. I think blockchain and other related technologies. You know, addresses both sides of the coin there. Right. Agreed. Agreed. I think we're close to the end of our webinar here. Any questions. Please hit us. We'll do our best. And since we were speaking about football before soccer. We'll do our best. We'll do our best. We'll do our best. I'll only take questions from Liverpool fans if that's okay. But yeah, please. Anybody who has a question in the chat, please fire away. And yeah, we're also open to taking in some participants. If we see any as well. Of course. A few people walking around right now. Yeah, that's great. If anybody has a questions, feel free to just raise your hand. If you have any questions, please leave them in the chat. Jeff, would you like to elaborate more or. Don't be shy. Okay. Don't be shy. We don't bite. He might bite back up. He might bite. He's got a big virtual bite. Be careful. All right. I don't see anything right now. But we do have maybe five minutes left before you wrap up. Okay. Let's see if anybody from the audience there. That would be great as well. Yeah, let's. Maybe, maybe one of our neighbors. Let me see if somebody from, give me one sec. I'll see if I can grab somebody. Give me two minutes. There you go. I also love Jeff to talk. So Jeff, maybe you can ask your questions here. Can you get me? Can you hear me now? Yeah. I couldn't unmute for some reason. I think it'd be from the host. No, I think the question was answered. I just wondering how's the, how's the private key going to be delegated to service provider then. How's it. So you're going to have a patient in a service provider, each having the public key to the data. Right. Right. Let me answer. See, in practice, in theory, the user is the operator of the private key. But since private keys are such a complicated thing to be operated by a user like using a mobile wallet or using a hardware token, it is not so practical because they will lose access to it. So the practical scenario is the service provider or the operator who is operating your wallet. Or it could be one of the organization in the Hyperlegic Consortium. They, they are having a legally audited solution where the keys are actually operated on let's say physical HSM or a network HSM. In fact, the keys never come out and be available in the database and their operation team and the operation procedure should be convincing and should be auditable. Once the user says that he don't want to share or he want to remove this information. Technically from the HSM, we have to issue a command to delete. This is the only way in which it is the most practical way of convincing through the technology system that this key is no more existing. So these are, these are some of the ways in which user privacy and user control is adopted in scenarios where user is not actually operating the keys. Like for example, if you are having a Bitcoin cryptocurrency, people are very taxiing. They would be happy to have the keys in their hardware wallet, but we cannot expect a patient to be able to use it, especially at the time when they take or maybe even more serious how they can even operate their keys, right? It's not practical. So it is always delegated to a service provider. What service provider are you talking about? Is the medical firm that generate the data, are you talking about the blockchain service provider? Blockchain means, let's say the blockchain has a few participants on hospital and few other service aggregators. One would be a wallet operator which will be holding the patient, which is an interface for the patient to operate their data. It would be a different organization and we have to ensure that sufficient protection and operation guidelines are insured for that particular organization. The users will contact using the systems which are installed there. The keys would be installed there. It should be in a protected environment. See, there are ways to implement using strong cryptography or proxy re-imprison stream or ZKP, but all those cases assumes that the user is very tech-sy. They know how to use complicated tools and do cryptographic operations. But we are talking about field which is in the medical area and users would be from different edge segment and the scenario could be different because the medical means obviously the person is going through some treatment. So, we are expecting they don't have any computer, they don't operate any physical tokens. So, they operate using a software by a call or by an operation or a backend team is doing it. The best choice is that the private key is insured to be protected and there are operation procedures which ensure that this private key is not open, cannot be opened. And what action happened using the private key is written into the blockchain. So, it's completely auditable when was that private key operation used. So, this auditable record and the very fact that the privacy is inside a secured appliance is very convincing that there is nothing wrong because whatever happened with your key is available into the private permission at least the action. The traceability you are talking about? Yes, the traceability part will tell when the user's action was done using his key and the protection mechanism adopted by the wallet service provider will ensure that the keys cannot be extracted, the key and the client can never be coming out. And if the user wants that the keys should not be used, the keys are deleted inside the physical appliance. So, the service provider is going to generate the key pair you're saying? Yes, it would be generated in a physical HSM sort of device. Not sort of, it will be an HSM only. Thank you, Mohit. I see there's one last question which I think we can take and then we will have to wrap up unfortunately because it was such a great, great talk. So, Eust is asking, could I swap my token with somebody else that I choose? Repeat the question again? So, background noise. Yeah, Eust is asking, could I swap my token with somebody else? Under what context? I need to understand. Maybe you might understand the context, but he's asking if you could swap his token with somebody else's. Now, when you're dealing with any type of tokenized asset, the benefit of tokenizing an asset is the transmissibility of it. But you have to make sure this stakeholder is within the permission and private ecosystem of a hyperlegion network or any other private network you're dealing with. Now, you have to make sure of course that individual is provisioned onto a node and et cetera. And other protocols and other measures are met for on-boarding and transmissibility purposes. I hope that answered your question, at least from a contextual standpoint. Yeah, and on top of it, it is about how we have coded our chain code and hyperlegion fabric. It's just a function. There will be two tokens and it will swap the different publicly certificates. We made it a one-step-two-step process essentially. Seamless one, right? Great. Thank you so much. I'm afraid we will have to close the webinar for today. Sorry to say that because it was really such a great webinar. And thank you for also having this great idea to come in live from the HIMS conference. I think it definitely very dynamic, very interesting topic to have you guys joining us live from there. So thanks a lot from that. I have to give credit to Rocco on that point. No, honestly, Rocco brought it up to me and you remember, Tomas, when we spoke about it, we immediately hopped on the idea. And I think this is going to be... You're too kind. You're too kind. You know what, happy to do this. Love to do it again. I think this was a great conversation. There's numerous topics we can talk about another time. I think we've got a great panel here, guys. How are you going to be floating in the clouds the rest of the day? Anyways, many thanks to participants, to the audience. We're going to continue enjoying 2024 HIMS here in Orlando. It's sunny today. It's a beautiful day with lots of people. So we're going to go and mingle. We hope to see you soon. Some of the members next year as well for the next conference. Definitely come by. It's worth it. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, if anybody's... We're watching this from Orlando, welcome to join. You know, Crips and Cloud for Seattle stands. And thank you again so much to our panelists and for this great presentation. And if there are some questions that didn't... We didn't manage to get to, feel free to reach out to us at Harper Ledger or directly to our panelists as well. Now, before we go, I would like to invite you to also check our events page about the upcoming events. We have the Special Interest Group presentations, upcoming webinars, as well as the in-person events here as well. Also, don't forget to visit our Meetup page for the list of our Meetups, Workshops and also events for original chapters like Women in Blockchain, Organized by Harper Ledger chapter in India. At Harper Ledger, we also do a lot of thought leadership pieces. 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