 Everyone, welcome to theCUBE's presentation of the AWS startup showcase around open cloud innovations. This is season two, episode one of the ongoing series covering exciting startups from the AWS ecosystem and talking about open source and innovation. I'm John Furrier, your host. Today we're joined by two great guests, Dan Garfield, chief open source officer and co-founder of Codefresh I.O. and Resilatavi CEO and co-founder of two co-founders in the middle of all the innovation. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on. Thank you. So you guys have a great platform and as with cloud native goes mainstream in the enterprise and for developers, the big topic is unification and to end horizontally scalable, leveraging data, all these things around agile that I call agile cloud next level. This is kind of what we're seeing. The CNCF is growing, you're seeing KubeCon every year is more about these kinds of things, words like orchestration, Kubernetes, container, security, all those complexities are now at the center of making things easier for developers. This is a key value proposition and you guys at Codefresh are offering really the first enterprise delivery solution powered by Argo, which is an open source project. Again, open source, driving really big changes. So let's get into it and first of all, congratulations and thanks for working on this project. What's so special about Argo, the project and why have you guys decided to build a platform on it and where is this coming together? Take us through why this is so important. I think Argo has been a very fast-flowing open source project for multiple reasons. A, it has been built for the new way of building and deploying an application. It's cloud native, you mentioned Kubernetes becoming kind of the de facto way of running application. It's the de facto way to run automation and pipelines but also Argo has been built from the ground up to the latest practices of how we deploy software. We deploy software now differently. We deploy it using GitOps practice. We're deploying it using canary, blue, green, progressive deployment and Argo has been built around these practices, around these technologies and has been very much widely adopted by the community in the past. You've mentioned Argo was all over the place and we were very glad to be working with the community to talk about what the next steps with Argo. Yeah, it's a really good point. I would like to just follow up on that because you know, you see this being talked about always comes up, where is open source really outside of pure contributors matter? And when you have corporations contributing you're seeing this has been the trend. You saw it with Lyft, with Envoy, companies doing more and more open source. This is part of a big collaboration and this again, this comes back down to this whole why it's relevant and why it's so special with Argo. Continue to talk about that relationship because it's not just you guys, it's now community. Yeah, I can speak to that. The Argo project is something that we maintain in partnership with several other companies and really our relationship with it is that this is something that we're actively contributing to. This is something that we're helping build the roadmap on and planning the events around and all those kinds of things. And we're doing that because we really believe in this technology and we built our platform on it. So when you deploy CodeFresh, you're deploying technology that's built directly on Argo and is designed specifically to solve that problem that you spoke to at the top of the hour. We all want to deliver software faster. We all want to have fewer regressions. We want to have fewer breaking changes. We want software to be super reliable. We want to be comfortable with what we're doing. That's really why we picked Argo because that technology that we have it is to Rozelle's point, delivered in this new way. It's delivered using GitOps and that's a whole revolution and change in the way that people build and deploy software and bringing cohesion into that experience is so critical to building the confidence that lets you actually deploy often and frequently and more. Yeah, Dan, if you don't mind just expanding on that one point about the problem you solve because to me, this has been kind of that evolution. It's almost like, yeah, there's been problems, plural and opportunities that you solve with those in growing markets like this with DevOps and DevSecOps and now CloudNative. What is the catalyst behind all this? What was the epiphany behind it? How did it get so much momentum? What was it really doing under the covers? Well, it's a very simple and easy to use set up tools. And that's one of the big things is that if you look at the ideas of GitOps and there's actually foundation around this that we're part of called Open GitOps, the GitOps working group under the CNCF and those principles of I want to, yes, do my software defined as code, I want to do my infrastructure defined as code and I need something monitoring my production run times and making sure that the declared desired state is always matching the actual state. Those principles have actually been around for a number of years and with Kubernetes, we really unlocked an API that allowed us to start doing GitOps and this is why we bring in Argo and you see the rise of Argo CD and our new workflows and what we've been doing is really because that technology has been unlocked now. So the ability to define how your software is supposed to run and now your entire software delivery stack should run all defined and then monitored and then kept in check using a GitOps operator, that critical unlock is what's really driving the massive adoption and like Roziel said, Argo is the fastest growing and most popular open source project for delivering software and it's not even close. Yeah, this is really great point and I want to get into that because I want to know why what you guys do on your platform versus the open source and get that relationship settled. Before we get there though, I want to get your reaction to some of the commentary in the industry because GitOps trend has been exploding into new directions. I mean, it used to be a term about 10 years ago called big data, right? In the beginning where data was all big data. And we should respond to huge DevOps revolution around data as well. But now you're hearing people talk about big code, right? Like, I mean, the code bases are becoming so huge. So as a developer, you know, you're leveraging large open source code, this idea of the software delivery with existing code and new code just adds to more code. There's more code being developed every day. There is more code delivered every day and I think that organization realize today almost in every industry that they have to pace up how fast and how frequent they update their software delivery. You know, we're living in a world in which every aspect of our life is being disrupted by software and organization realize that they have to keep up and figure out how to deploy software more frequent and more reliably. And I think, you know, you mentioned that really Kubernetes Cloud native became the de facto way of running application. I think most of organization have made that decision to move into cloud native. The second question is after is, okay, now we have all education running, how fast and how more frequent we can deploy application to the cloud native. And that's the stage in which, you know, we're super excited about our going on platform because that's basically streamline the building application for this cloud native, deploying application for the cloud native and so on. Yeah, and I think that highlights the business value getting a lot of the conversations with businesses that say they want the modern application on the cloud scale. And at the end of the day, it comes down to speed and security, right? So, you know, how fast can I get the app out? How well does it work? Does it run perform and does it have security? And I don't want to slow it down. Exactly, exactly. And that's simple, kind of oversimplifies, but that's kind of the net net, right? So when you look at Argo open source, what's that done and kind of where you guys are taking it, can you talk about the differences between your enterprise version and the open source version and the interplay there, the relationship, the business model, how customers can play on both sides or understand the difference? Sure, so. Yeah, so. Go ahead. Okay, so I think, you know, Argo, as you mentioned is, it's probably the most advanced technology today to both run pipelines, they're like events to trigger pipelines and Argo workflow to run the pipeline, Argo CD for a GitOps and rollout for Canary BlueBerry strategies. And the adoption is really exploding. You know, just as an anecdote we had in December, we have worked with the community and organized ArgoCon events in which we had initially, you know, kind of thought about, you know, 510 days and so on, we have more than 4,000 registrants and you know, majority of them are coming from enterprise. Now, as we have talked to the community during this conference and figure out, okay, so what are the things that you're still missing and that will help you take the benefits that you get from Argo to the next level? There are a few things that came up. You know, one is, Argo is a great technology. However, Argo now is fragmented into four projects. There is an events, there is workflow, there is Argo CD and there is Argo rollout and there is a need to bring them all together into a solid platform with, you know, solid, you know, one run time that can be easily installed, monitor all of this in a single UI, in a single control plane. That's one aspect. The second is the scalability, really being able to manage it centrally across multiple cluster, not in one cluster and what we bring in with the new, why we're so excited about this platform is we're bringing the ability first to get all of these four projects in one run time and one control plane but also allow the community to run it across multiple cluster from one place, getting it as a solution, not just as a technology. If I may add to that, the value of bringing these projects together, it provides so many insights. So when you're trying to figure out there's some breaking change that has been made but you don't necessarily know where it is because you have a lot of microservices that are out there, you have a lot of teams working on it, by bringing all of these things together we're able to look at all of the commits, all of the deployments, all of the JIRA issues, all of these components combined together so you really get a single view where you can see everything that's going on and this is another element where when you're trying to deploy software at scale you're trying to deliver it faster people are getting a little bit overwhelmed because there are so many updates and so many different services and so many teams working that they're starting to miss that visibility. So this is what we want to bring into the ecosystem is we really want that visibility to be super clear and by bringing all of the components, the Argo tools together we're able to do that in a single dashboard. Yeah, so if I get this right let me just double click on that because it sounds like, yeah Argo's great it's been organically growing a lot of different components to it but when you start getting into pushing code in an organization you have, I call it the old school version control kind of vibe going on where it's like what you don't know what's out there and how that affects the system as it's a distributed system, it's which cloud is. There are consequences when stuff breaks so we all know that. Is that kind of where you guys are getting at that the challenge is actually the opportunity at the same time where it's all goodness but then when you start looking at scale and the system impact, is that kind of where the open source and you guys pick up, is that right? This is one aspect, I think the second one is that again when you look at each individual component of Argo each provide a lot of value by itself but when you sum it, the value of the sum is greater than the value of the individual. So when you're taking really the events and workflow, Argo CD and Argo World and you bring them all together into single runtime the value of each time is really automation all the way from code to cloud. It's not breaking into, there is like an automation for CI, there's an automation for CD, there's automation for progressive delivery. It's actually automated all the way from the Git commit through the GitOps, through the deployment strategy and so on and being able to monitor it and scale it in the enterprise scale. So of course it's helping enterprise and make Argo to some level more crucial for enterprise if I may say, but second is really bringing all of these components together and get the outcome be greater than the individual parts. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, make it make a commercial grade if you will for the an important one step support and consistently and whatnot. What other problems are you solving? Dan, can you chime in on the whole, how you guys resolve some of these challenges for the enterprise? Because again, some stability is key as well but also the business benefit's got to be there for the development teams. Yeah, so there's several. One aspect is that the way that most people operate today is they essentially do a bunch of commands and engage with systems. And then hopefully at the end they write those things to Git. And just a little bit backwards if you think about it because there's a situation where you can end up with things in production that were never checked in or maybe somebody's operating and they're making a change. Look at most of the downtime that's occurred over the last two years. It's because people have, you know, flubbed a key when they were, when they were typing in a command or something like that. The way that this system works is that we provide an interface both the CLI and the GUI where those operations interactions actually end with the Git commit. So rather than doing an operation and then hopefully committing to Git, most of the operations are actually done first in Git or if there is something that can't be done first in Git it's maybe bootstrapped and then committed to Git as part of a single command. So this means you have end-to-end traceability. It also means your auditability is way better. And then the second, the other component that we're adding is that security and scale layer. So we are securing these things. We're building in, you know, single sign-on and all of those robust security things that you would expect to have across all these instances. So many organizations when they're building their software delivery tools they have to deploy instances in many locations. And so this is how you end up with companies that have 5,000 instances that are all out of date and insecure. Well, with CodeFresh, if you need to deploy a component onto this end cluster or something like that you maybe have thousands of them. All of those are monitored and taken care of in a centralized way. So I can do all of my updates at once. I can make sure they're all up to date. I'm not running with a bunch of, you know, known CVEs or something like that. And it's clear. The components are also designed in an architectural way so that only the information that is needed is ever passed out. So I can have a cluster that is remotely managed that checks out code that the control plane never has access to. So this hybrid model has been really popular with our customers because we have customers in healthcare with customers in defense and in financial services all these regulated industries. The flow of information is really critical. So this hybrid model allows you to deploy something that has the ease of a SaaS solution but has the security of an on-prem solution while being essentially managed and easy to take care of. Yeah, I mean, it's a platform. It's what it is. It's not a tool. It's not a tool anymore. It's a platform. I think the foundational aspect of this is critical and you mentioned automation before if you're going to go into an automation you have some stuff in the system that hasn't been checked in yet. I mean, we know what this leads to, a disaster or a lot of troubleshooting and disruption. That's what it seems to solve. Is that, am I getting that right? Is that right? Yeah, it helps automate the whole process. But as you say, it's really like identify what needs not to be going all the way to production and really kind of avoid vulnerabilities or any flows in the software. So it automates everything, but in a way that the automation can identify issues and avoid them from coming into the production. Well, great stuff here. I got to ask you guys now that you got that settled. It's really, I see the value there how you guys are letting it grow organically and with Ergo and then building that platform for businesses and developers, really cool. And I see the foundational value there. It just only gets better. How are you guys contributing back to open source and helping the wider GitOps and Ergo communities? Because this is again, the rising tide that's bringing all the boats into the harbor so to speak. So this is a good trend. People will acknowledge that. So how's this going to work as you guys work back into the open source community? So we work closely with both myself and the other maintainers work closely with the community on the roadmap and making sure that we're addressing issues. I think if you look in the last quarter, we probably have upwards of 40 or 50 different issues that we've solved in terms of fixing a bug or adding features or things like that. So making sure that these tools, which are really the undergirding components of our platform, they have to be really robust. They have to be really strong. And so we're contributing those things back. And then when it comes to the scalability side, these are things that we can build in the platform. So the value should be really clear. I can deploy this. I can manage it myself. I can build tools on top of it. And if I want to start doing it at scale, maybe I want support. That's when I really going to go to CodeFresh and start saying, let's get the enterprise little platform. Awesome. GitOps, a lot of people like some naysayers may say, hey, you know, it's the latest fad. You know, is it here to stay? We were talking about big code earlier. GitOps, obviously you're seeing open source just every year just get better and better and growth. I mean, I remember when I was breaking into the business, you had to sell under the table. Now it's all free and open, getting better every year. Just the growth of code. Is GitOps a fad? How do you talk to people who say that? I mean, besides slapping around saying, get in the wake up. I mean, how do you guys address that when people say it's just the latest fad? So if I may comment here, you know, don't feel free to chime in. I think that the GitOps is a continuation of a trend that everything is a source code. You know, as a developer as many years ago myself and still writing code, you know, always growth code and code was the source of, you know, truth that's where we write that code. But now code actually is also describing how our application is running in production. And we've already seen kind of where it get next. You know, we also hear about infrastructure as a code. So now actually we're storing the code the way the infrastructure should be. And I think that the benefit of storing all this configuration in a source code, which has been built to track changes to being able to rollback, that is just going to be, you know, here to stay. And I think that's the new way of doing things. All right, gentlemen, great closing statements. Please share an update on the company, what it's all about, what event you got coming up. I know you got a big launch. Can you take us through, take us home. Yeah, join us on February 1st. We're going to be launching the CodeFresh software delivery platform. Raziel and I will be hosting the event. We've got a number of customers and a number of members of the community who are going to be joining us to show off that platform. So you're going to be able to see it in action, see how the features work and understand the value of it. And you'll see how it works with get-offs. You'll see how it helps you deliver software at scale. That's February 1st. You can get information at CodeFresh.io. Raziel Dan, thanks for coming on. Appreciate your showcase. Thanks for sharing. Congratulations, great venture. Love the approach. Love the growth in debt cloud native. And you guys are on the cutting edge. Fresh code, people love fresh code, CodeFresh.io. Coming on. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, this is the AWS startup showcase. Open cloud innovations, cloud scale, software data. That's the future. Modern applications being developed, changing the game to the next level. This is theCUBE's coverage. Season two, episode one of the ongoing AWS startup series here on theCUBE.