 And it's time for our first hot topic. The Nigerian education sector has suffered from incessant strikes filled by what the academic staff union of universities, ASU, has called failed promises for facilities and infrastructure maintenance, budget leakage, and many more. In July of this year, 2023, the Student Solidarity Group, lambasted President Balatinibu's administration saying, quote, the promise of high quality tertiary education for all Nigerians, regardless of economic status, has been broken by the government. Countless students from low income families who once aspired to pursue their dreams are now being denied a right to an education due to exorbitant fees. The government's so-called student loan scheme may appear to be a lifeline, but it is nothing more than a hollow promise, end of quote. Then we then saw tertiary school students in different parts of the country, protest, hike in fees, with some schools eventually bowing to pressure. Failed promises of free education in Nigeria is our first hot topic this morning, and we have been joined by Mr. Shagun Shopwito, principal partner, Woodridge and Scott Consulting. Good morning to you, Mr. Shopwito. Good morning, my darlings. Thanks for having me. Glad to have you join us. So Nigeria has, let me just talk about the universities. We have 109 public universities, 50 of them federal and then 59 state. And then budgetary allocation in 2022, the sector saw 5.4%, and in 2023, the sector saw 8.2%. Now, if you look at the sector, you find that education in Nigeria has remained underfunded, and the facilities in most public schools remain dilapidated, from ASU, to SANO, to NASU, to NAD, to Konwa, to ASUP and KOSU. Talking about the different unions across the tertiary institutions, they've all complained of underfunding of that sector. Would you say that the country is given the needed attention to education? No, I wouldn't say so. And I think that if we go by the old tourism that the taste of the pudding is in the eating, or maybe if we go to scripture and say, wisdom is justified of our children, in other words, the results that you achieve will attest to the effectiveness of the action that you're taking. Then you would see from the problems that Nigeria is facing today that clearly evidence-based haven't given enough attention to education. Whether it's in terms of funding or in terms of just general disposition and attitude of our governments over the years, maybe perhaps since the early years, post-independence years, when we had the Western Legion and all of that, where there was a deliberate free education policy. Probably we haven't had anything anywhere close to that since then. And the results are very clear. You can see all around you the effect and the impact of poor education on the citizenry, on other sectors of the economy, especially when it comes to the issue of security and literacy, which is tied closely to poverty, you know, prevalence, right? So it's clear that we haven't given enough attention to education. It's clear that we're not funding education enough when nowhere near what the UNESCO recommended percentage of projectory allocation to education for countries that want to achieve, if you like, you know, poor literacy levels, you know, as the case may be, you know. So I think that there's a whole lot more than needs to be done by our governments across board. And this is not just speaking about the federal government. I think this goes across to the state government and even to the local government levels, bearing in mind that education, the way education is structured in Nigeria, different levels of education are the responsibilities of those different tiers of government. So we need to do a whole lot more. Well, when we talk about doing a whole lot more, we always think about funding and all that. We have this story, a recent story, a research carried out in Katzina state how a humongous amount of money was spent for renovations and not renovations or building of classroom blocks in Katzina state, the home state of the sitting president then and even in Daurah, local government, where he comes from. And the money went down the drain. In all the schools that were visited, that these monies were voted, contractors were paid and contractors that were paid, some of them were supposed to be borehole drilling companies and they were given money to build classroom blocks that they never did and so much more. And the projects that were in these schools were far back as 2020, 2021. And these projects, this money was voted for projects in 2022, but they just went and said, okay, these projects have already been done and then the money went down the drain. So it's a problem, really the funding per se or some of the factors that need to be addressed. Funding is very important. UNESCO and United Nations have said something about the percentage, maybe 16% or 25%. I can't remember the figure now, which is current, but funding, taking a case study of Katzina was done, but it was never carried out. Those projects were never carried out. Corruption. So what do we need to address apart from funding? Well, so I think the first thing that I would like to just perhaps point out is that the money didn't go down the drain. The money went into private pockets. So that's where clear. It's not as if the money was wasted. So it's one thing for budgetary allocations to be done and the funds were spent on things that are of less priority, for example. And it's another thing entirely for budgetary allocations to be done. Funds are released to contractors, but those projects were never carried out. So the monies were clearly stolen. So like Madame said, it's corruption. So but I think it's important to note that in spite of that, it's best and foremost, the starting point is to even recognize the importance of education, especially as it relates to national development, national growth, achievement of the objectives of Nigeria as a nation state. If our governments do not recognize the importance of that sector, whether you monies are stolen or not would become secondary. The starting point is to recognize the need, the desperate and urgent need to pay attention to that sector, allocate the funding that is required for that sector, allocate the resources in terms of human capital to that sector, allocate the capacity development, ensure that the adequate levels of capacity development happens in that sector, such that beyond the money, the money will pay for projects, maybe classrooms, maybe laboratories, maybe lecture halls, theaters, maybe trainings, but beyond all of that, the mindset and approach of the government has to change so that we are approaching the problem of what it is, an existential threat. If we do not deal with the problem of illiteracy in this country, then it's important to know that the impact of education and the ripple effect it has across the society has a very large time lag. You don't see the result of your actions today until 10 years later. So what we're experiencing today with Boko Haram is the result of our failures 15 years ago. If we want to change the narrative with regards to how Nigeria is growing, including in other areas like power, even the issue of corruption, security, what have you, we have to start today to affect the minds of Nigerians, starting from when they are very young, when they are in primary school, preschool level, such that by the time they grow up to be 20, the way they think will be different. The way Nigerians think today is a fundamental problem for Nigeria as a country. So I usually like to say that the problem of Nigeria starts with Nigerians themselves. And it's not their fault, it's just the programming. It's the fact that the country has not been delivered in determining or directing the direction or the manner in which its citizens relate with reality, relate with facts, our ability to reason, our ability to think. These things are not taught in Nigerian schools. Logical reasoning is a course on its own in many universities abroad. The way mathematics is approached, for example in the Asian countries, is completely different. It's approached in a spatial manner. You don't approach it by memorization. You approach it by getting children to understand that mathematics is simply the relationship between objects in space. And you're just trying to calculate, to determine those relationships. And you put them down in formulas. So if we are unable to deal with this from the very rudimentary level and then take it all the way off, then we have a serious problem. So now to not talk about the issue of corruption, then you see that we're in a crack 22. It's just a self-reinforcing, self-destructive cycle. Because we're not educating people today, they don't think right. They are unable to tell the difference between right and wrong, the left and right. And therefore, as they begin to grow up, their moral bearings are twisted. It's completely messed up. And when they now find themselves in position of authority, it's difficult for them to do the right thing. So our conversation about education this morning is absolutely critical. And it's important to note that on the issue of education, I'm sorry, madam, all over the world, all over the world. So now we're talking about failed promises of this government, as far as education funding is concerned. Funding is absolutely critical and it will have to come from government or be facilitated by government. This is the way even developed countries are handling the question of education. Because education is expensive, citizens typically across the world, even in more prosperous countries, cannot afford education for the university level. So the state comes in and provides funding. The United Kingdom, still, as I speak with you, funds education to the university level for certain categories of their citizens. The United States, the bastion of democracy and capitalism, still subsidizes education to university level as we speak today. It's not just second. So the misconception that a lot of us have is that, oh, education is free up onto secondary school for all citizens, all of that. But it's free up to university level in a structured manner across the entire world. So what's our excuse? Why are we hiking the university tuition fees today in Nigeria and claiming that we're providing student loans that are phantom? The student loans are not real. Nobody can access those things just based on the conditionalities attached to them alone. So the concept of free education needs to be looked at by this administration. No economy runs purely on the capitalistic structure. You must have a social face to capitalism for your country to work. Indeed, what you just said just reminds me of what an education is that I discussed with on Friday said about Nigeria's education that we as a nation have not yet decided what we want to achieve with our education. And so we have not decided and realized that the kind of education you give to the children in the North, for instance, may have to be a specialized one to feed into their situation, their economy and their way of life. Same goes for those in the Southeast and those in the Southwest. And so we have a new minister of education, Tahir Maman. When I imagine that his work is cut out, in fact, his work is obviously cut out for him. Nigeria has out of school children, the highest in Africa and third globally. I imagine this is one of the things that he should be looking into. And when you talk about a high cost of education now, this I imagine, and I believe, should be a major concern for him. One of the things that he should be doing to show us that he knows what he has been called to do. Do you agree with that? Absolutely. Like I said before, and I absolutely 100% agree with the submission you say that one of your guests made regarding the need to tailor our education system to specific cultures is how it's done all over the world. So for me, there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching mathematics in Europa, in the Southwest, and teaching mathematics in Hausa, in the North, in the North, and teaching it in Igbo, in the East, and in Uruguay, if you like, in the Niger Delta, and so on and so forth. Because for a lot of people, for a lot of those children who didn't have access to kindergarten, who don't watch cartoons, for example, because this is how people's understanding of English is shaped. For a lot of those children, they think in their local languages. So when you try to get them to convert what you are trying to pass across to them, the instruction you are trying to give to them, they have to convert it from their thought process to some foreign language, and then try to understand it. Then you have a problem, or the converse is the case. Try to convert it from a foreign language to their local language in which they think then understanding is grievously impaired. So yes, I absolutely agree with that submission that was made by your guests. I think we need to be more creative with our entire education curriculum and begin to ask ourselves what exactly do we want to be? In fact, this also goes to the issue of our official language. Why have we adopted English so wholeheartedly and said this is our official language? When the truth of the matter is that of our 200 million strong population, maybe only about 15%, maybe even less, can speak fluent English, understand it clearly, and think in that language. Why are we not creating, why are we not building up? Why don't we have the sense of identity, strong enough to say to ourselves, we will have five official languages, pigeon being one of them. In fact, maybe pigeon being the first one. Why not? And other countries around the world, they choose the language that they want to speak in, and even though they understand English, they will not speak it to you. So I think these questions are absolutely critical then. Talking about the out-of-school children problem, clearly we have a humongous problem on our hands, and of course you would know if you look at the numbers, that the highest preponderance of this problem happens in the North. So what is our strategy for attracting children in these places, whether it's in the North or any other part of the country, back into the classrooms? I served in the North, and I'm talking about almost 30 years ago. And I'm saying that as of that time, as far back as 30 years ago, the children who my colleagues in the youth service were supposed to teach, preferred to go and sell petrol on the road, you know, black markets. They preferred to do so many other things because they made money from those things. So they wouldn't come to the classroom. And some of my fellow coppers then would have to devise means, you know, sweeteners and incentives, you know, to just bring these children to class, including offering them sweets, you know, food, money, whatever. If the youth couple can do this, why can't our government do this? Why can't our government realize the enormity of the problem and come up with some sort of carrot thing that will draw the children in, and that will also encourage or force their parents to compel them to come to school. So apart from the issue of the wheel, of course, there's also the issue of the structure and the infrastructure. Even in Lagos, I'm speaking from Lagos, you guys are in Lagos, you will be shocked if you go to the back streets of Lagos, just go beyond those flashy looking roads in a kejah, in a koei, in VRM, maybe in Lekifes one. Just go a step, just a layer behind that facade. You will be shocked to see what you will find, which regards to schools. In these Lagos, there are schools where there are no toilets, where the children defecate in nylon bags and throw them over walls. You know, where there is no water in these same Lagos. So the issue of infrastructure now, if you have that kind of problem, why should the child come to a place like that? Why shouldn't that child just find something else to do that is perhaps of more interest to him that is more comfortable for him? So the question about the school children is what's across the issue of the will, the desire on the part of the children and the part of their parents, and then goes into the issue of infrastructure, classrooms, laboratories, books, and what have you. And there speaks also to capacity of the teachers, even in terms of the numbers that we have, we simply do not have enough teachers and they are not well paid. So it's a whole lot of work. Like you said, the minister has his work cut out but he's here with it, because he recognized the enormity of these programs and does he have a plan, even as we speak, to begin to deal with those issues in a systematic manner that will ensure that if we give ourselves a timeframe of say 10 years, this is where we are in year 2023. By year 2033, this is where we will be in terms of enrollment and in terms of out of school children. We need that kind of articulated program and articulated thinking to ensure that we can solve this problem. And I hope that the government will be ready to put that in. Well, Mr. Sokwetson, just a final question. Our time is really up, but you talked about changing the psyche of the people from developing, cultivating. Let me use that, not changing because if you are a child, there's no other opinion or something that you have while you're growing up. If you have given the right one, you grow. With the right one, so. Who should drive the process of instilling in our children the right mindset to be better citizens of Nigeria? Because obviously we should be realistic. Those in government, 90% at least of them are benefiting from the ignorance and the unpatriotism, let me call it, that we are having right now in our country. And their children are in better schools that will still come back to govern, to lord it over the people that really need this orientation. So who should drive the process to keep the government, the hands of the government, is soiled? Sadly, we are both sadly, we are in a cartoon too situation and a lot of Nigerians, the narrative around Nigeria, typically has this visual cycle, this cartoon too that you just can't break free of. So you're absolutely right. Government is, government's hands are soiled. Political office holders benefit from the situation that we have in this country with regards to a lack of education, with regards to the high illiteracy incidents that we have. And therefore, they have no incentive to try to solve the problem. If anything, it pays them to simply make cursory tokenistic efforts so that they appear to be doing something, but ensure that they do nothing so that they continue to benefit from these things. However, nobody else can solve the problem. See, so this is the cartoon too. Nobody else can. Why do I say this? It's a, it's a large country. We're talking of 200 million plus, we're talking of 970 something thousand square kilometers of just single landmass. Therefore, the capacity in terms of size to deal with these issues in a coherent manner that will achieve the same objective can only lie in one place. And that place today is government. Civil society cannot do it. International funding partners cannot do it. Private NGOs cannot do it because they are not big enough. They cannot be energy required to coalesce their efforts to create the right type of critical mass required to address these problems simply is, I think is impossible to achieve, right? So which means it must reside in one place, one person and that person is government. So the challenge we have is how do we get government that is run by people who are benefiting from the problem to fix the problem? That is the challenge. It's a question that I do not have answers to. I'm just a consultant, not a politician. And then... And you're not a magician. You're not a magician. Yeah, don't forget that. I'm not a magician. Okay, I was that short with you, please. Thank you so much for your time this morning. It's been a pleasure as always having you to dissect some of these issues that we have. Thank you so much for your time. We'll go on a short break now. We'll be back in a moment. Stay with us.