 Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Grace Hopper's Celebration of Women in Computing, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Grace Hopper Conference here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We're joined by Joanna Park. She is the managing, the group managing director North America at ThoughtWorks based in Chicago. So thanks so much for joining us, Joanna. Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. So your company is being honored for the second year in a row as a top company for women technologists by the Anita Borg Institute. Tell our viewers what that means. Yeah, we're incredibly proud and super humbled to be recognized again for the second year in a row. Our journey towards diversity and inclusivity really began about eight or nine years ago. And it started with kind of the top leadership of the company saying that this is a crisis in our industry and we need to take a stand and we need to do something about it. So it's been a long journey. It's not something that we started a couple of years ago. So there's been a lot of work by many people over the years to kind of get us to where we are today. And we still feel that we have a long way to go. There's still a lot to do. So as being recognized as a top company for women technologists, it obviously means there are many women who work there. But what else does it, what else can a woman technologist looking for a job expect at ThoughtWorks? So we think about not just the aspects of diversity, which is what is the makeup of your workforce look like, but also put equal if not more importance on inclusivity. So you can go out and you can make all sorts of efforts to hire women or minorities into your company. But if you don't have a culture and an environment in which they feel welcome and they feel like they can succeed and they can bring themselves to work, then that success won't be very lasting. So we've focused just not only on the recruiting process, but also our culture, our benefits, the environment in which we work. We are a software development company and we come from a history of agile software practices, which means that we work together in a very people oriented and collaborative way. So in some ways we had a little bit of a head start in that by working in that way, our culture was already built to be more team focused and collaborative and inclusive. So that was a good advantage for us when we got started. So but how else do you implement these best practices of the collaboration and the inclusivity? Because I mean, it is one thing to say that we want everyone to have a voice at the table, but it's harder to pull off. It is, absolutely. So a couple of things that we've done over our history, one is just kind of starting with open conversation, right? We talk a lot about unconscious bias. We do education and training through the workforce. We try to encourage those uncomfortable conversations that really create breakthroughs in understanding. We look for people that are open and curious in the interview process and we feel like if you are open to having your views about the world challenge, that's a really good sign. So that's kind of one step. And then I think when bad behavior arrives, which it always does, it's how you react and how you deal with it, right? So making it clear to everyone that behavior that kind of excludes or belittles others on the team is not tolerated. That's not the kind of culture that we want to build. So it's an ongoing process. So how do you call out the bad behavior? Because that's hard to do, particularly if you're a junior employee. Yes, so we try and create a safe environment where people feel like, okay, if I have an issue with someone on my team, particularly if it's someone more senior than me, we have a complete open door and flat organization. So anyone can pick up the phone and call me or our CEO or whoever they feel comfortable talking to. And I think what happens is when that happens and people see action being taken, whether it's feedback being given or more serious action, then it reinforces the fact that it's okay to speak up and that you are going to be heard and listened to. So one of the underlying themes of this conference is that women technologists have a real responsibility to have a voice in this industry and to shape how the future of software progresses. Can you talk a little bit more about that, about what you've seen and observed and also the perspective of ThoughtWorks on this issue? Absolutely, I mean, we all have seen the power that technology has in transforming our society and that is only going to grow over time, right? It's not going away. And so it really impacts every aspect of our life, whether it's healthcare or how we interact with our family or how we go to work every day. And so having a diverse set of perspectives that reflects the makeup of our society is so important. I was really impressed by Dr. Fei-Fei Li's keynote on Wednesday morning when she talked. She's at Stanford. Yeah, Stanford and at Google right now as well. And she spoke about the importance of having diverse voices in the field of artificial intelligence. And she said, you know, no other technology reflects its designers more than AI. And it is so critical that we have that diverse set of voices that are involved in shaping that technology. Is that, is it almost too much though as a woman technologist, not only do you have to sort of be a trailblazer and put up with a lot of bias and sexism in the industry and then you have this added responsibility. I mean, what's your advice to women in the field, particularly the young women here who are at their first Grace Hopper? Absolutely, our CEO, sorry, our CTO, Rebecca Parsons, often says that the reason that she put up with it for so many years is because she's a geek. Because she's passionate about technology. And so when you're in those trying times, being able to connect with your passion and know that you're making a difference is so important because if it's just something that you view as a job or a way to make a living, you don't have that level of passion to get you through some of the hardships. So I think, you know, for me, that sense of responsibility is kind of a motivating and driving force. And the good news is it will get easier over time, right? As we make progress in our industry, you don't feel so alone. You start to have other women and other marginalized groups around you that you can connect with and share experiences. What are some of the most exciting projects you're working on at ThoughtWorks? We really try to cover a broad landscape of technology. We think of ourselves as early adopters that can kind of spot the trends in the industry and help bring them into the enterprise. So we're doing some really exciting things in the machine learning space around, you know, predictive maintenance, understanding when machine parts are going to fail and being able to, you know, repair them ahead of time. Things like understanding customer insights through data. So I think those areas are emerging and super exciting. Excellent. And what are you looking for? Are you here recruiting? Absolutely. And for the top company sticker on your booth, I'm sure that you are highly sought after. What are you looking for in a candidate? So we for a long time have articulated our strategy in three words, attitude, aptitude and integrity. Because we feel like if we can find a person that has a passion for learning, and the ability to learn and the right attitude about that, we can work with that, right? The world of technology is changing so fast. So even if you know the tech of today, if you don't have that passion and ability to learn, you're not going to be able to keep up. So we really look for people in terms of those character traits and those people are the kind of people that are successful and thrive at that works. If you look at the data, it looks as though there is a looming talent shortage. Are you worried about that at ThoughtWorks? I mean, what's your... Absolutely, there is a huge talent gap. It's growing by the day. We see it at our clients as well as ourselves. For me, it really comes down to the responsibility of society as well as companies to invest in upskilling our workforce. So we have seen some clients take that investment and realize that the skills they needed in their workforce a few years ago look very different from what they're going to need into the future. So we believe strongly in investing and training and upskilling our employees. We help work with our clients to do so as well. But I think we can't rely on the existing educational system to create all of the talent that we're going to need. It's really going to take investment, I believe, from society and from companies. And on-the-job training. Absolutely, there's no replacement for that, right? You can do the kind of academic and educational studies, but there's no replacement for once you get into the real world and you're working with people and the day-to-day challenges arise. Excellent. Well, Joanna, thanks so much for coming on. It's with a real pleasure talking to you. Thank you, it was my pleasure. We will have more from the Orange County Convention Center, the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing just after this.