 Mae'n adael i mi wnaeth wnaidd o projecta, onari nhw'n mynd cael ei ddiwedd y gall wneud i'r cosasol nawr, ac mae'n ddiweddol yn rhoi'r cyfylliantol addedol. On mor ffordd arall o gwaith mae'n fwyaf cyfaint ac mae'r bod ni'n unifadau hygol. Mae'n unifadau hwn yn eich gwaith eich bod ni'n gweithi, mae'n gwaith o fawr yn gyffredig, mae'n gwaith o fawr yn gweithi. Mae'n mynd i'r gweithio, roi'r ffordd o bobl ond o'n maen nhw'n rhol yn y byddol o'r pion lanysol, yn ymderech a oed長en i'r sefyllfa'n gweithio. Efallai'r unigauoleis ar ôl sydd ar ei ffordd, mae gwahodd yn gweithio. Rwy'n credu y gweithio ar gyfer y gwir goingu ymblannol. Roeswn ei wneud i'n ddigart, mae'n dweud o gaeliaeth yr hollwyr, ac roedd ni o bwysig ar gyfer y hollwyr y bydd y cwrin yw'r adroddau sy'n rhaglen, ac ydy'r adroddau tylu sy'n ardalodied fel Oerod y Cyfrif ym mwyaf? Yn nodi'r gwahanol o'r ddwyfodol eich cyfnodau ond ond mae'r prys yma mae'n cyfnodau fideisgrifetau. Rwy'n gyfnodd, dus mae canol o'r ardalodau eich hunain a phobl i'r bydd cyfeirio'i gyrslu. … Short-threaded, but until there's a really solid policy discussion, I don't know what context… … Green economy or something, we may not have a stable context. The other thing that seemed to me to come across the whole thing is how localised this is. In a way, it's about how ecosystem services become formerly part of the local landscape… … of people's culture of local economies. Felly, we need to think of these, the context where PES takes place as local economies, and study them perhaps as green economies. The last thing I heard, is we need to shift a bit more from this kind of supply push approach to PES to a more stand back demand side discussion. What do poor groups actually want, in relation to the ecosystem services, what do they want to produce, what can they do? Felly mae'r ddau meddwl lleidion yn ymdill wedi'i gweithio ar gyfer y mawr. Felly mae'r mynd i'r prosiect penderfynedig hefyd. Mae'r prosiect wedi'i gweld mi, ond mae'r prosiect ar y prif, rydyn ni'n gweithio'iol i'r cyllid ar y darfodol yn sicr i ddodol iawn. Ychydig yn fawr iawn i ni'u gyhoedd a'r syniadau yn cael ei gyfweld yn cynhyself o'r ddechrau Gymru, mae'r ddestunysau eraill. Felly yw'r rhaid y gallwn gwaith yn y rededd, os ydydd i'r amser o gweithiau sydd ffordd gwirioneddol yn ei oedd fynd ar gyfer y lleol ffordd gwirioneddol yn y dyfr悦 o'r strategiad yn holl ynglŷwyr. Mae gwn i'r rhaid arddangos y gweithiau yma hŵl, yr hollol iawn, o'r holl yng nghefn, o'r 100 bilion dollas Szedlau, a gwerthwyr ynglyn o'r holl. evening ond we've seen that, a big push of that the last five years. We've got to a stage where the red while the red agenda has moved forward to some extent in the climate negotiations on a written out which I see it in some way the way the CDM developed an included forestry with vast minutiae but then nothing actually happened. We're reaching a stage in the red negotiations where the amount of money on the table, yw ddechrau ddodd, ar gyflaen, ac ydych chi'n dweud i ddodd yn ddodd yn Ysgrifennu, Bergwysgrifennu, Ysgrifennu, mewn ddodd mlynedd yng Nghymru. Rydym ni'n meddwl i'r ddodd, ac ydw i'n meddwl i'r ddodd yma, ond byddwn ni'n colli i'r ffordd o'r problemau sy'n ddodd yn ddodd o'r ddodd, yna'r ddodd ag y maen nhw. Byddwn ni'n meddwl i'r ddodd, ac mae'n meddwl i'r ddodd, a byddwch yn cael ei gael o'u rhoi ei gael, ac mae'n rhoi'r ffordd i'r gweithio'r ffordd, a'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r cyffredinol. Pesynol o'r margylch. Felly mae'n olygu'r margylch o'r holl yn cyfryd, olygu'r margylch o'r syddwyr, olygu'r coredor. Felly mae'n olygu'r margylch o'r cynnangol. Mae'n olygu'r margylch o'r holl, a mae'n olygu'r margylch o'r holl yn cyfrifol. Felly if I have used it as donated blood it's not mainstreamed yet and maybe you can think out of theonos to it's not the rivers it's not the big systems yet, it's still literally on the margins. But it's a start. I think that in terms of PES a big error, a big mistake is to think that PES is the instrument to euros or objective or the instrument to solve anything, any problem and that with this agreement and we should aim at concentrating It's not. It's going to be probably in the margins. It's going to be one of a typology. It's going to be one thing. But what we need to do is really increase our understanding of these value chains of these markets in which the farmers, even if they're subsistence farmers, they still work within a market either because they are in the market or because they can't reach that market but they want to. So we need to understand how instruments like PES or like other types of rewards or instruments can help these people really capitalise and then get benefits that will actually provide the sustainability in the long term. So that's our next step. We could continue just designing the perfect scheme, but until we move from the supply push to actually what you said is where's the demand, where's the pull coming from, we won't move out of the margins. And what I would like to see is, as I grew up in it, PES is a tool. I don't think it needs to be so much of the margins, but it will remain in the margins as long as we're pushing and not listening to the pull and not linking into things like the supply chain into the value chain and markets etc. So it's moving out of that periphery by making it relevant. I would like to, you know, I come from India and I've also worked in China. So some of the opportunities that exist in these countries for the emerging economies in the south as payments, south-south payments, and I know IID does some work on, you know, African relationships and so on. So it might be worth looking into those areas as well as potential sources of demand. Would Chinese companies as part of the CSR pay for PES programs in Africa? I think one of the critical questions, something that I'm very excited about today, is the issue of financial sustainability of PES schemes. I was so pleased to hear it coming again and again and again and people seriously thinking about that, something that used to be done. And I've always been asking myself a similar question on what's the exit strategy in the business plan. Because the problem is, I don't think it's reasonable to think that we can pay farmers forever. And from the outset we need to think about, because the idea of PES when it first emerged was to achieve some level of desirable behavioral change of land users, for instance. And the conceptual, at least theoretically speaking, that behavioral change had to be achieved to some years down the line and at that point you wouldn't need to pay any more. And I'm sure I was challenged with similar questions by Helen at some point. And I have constantly been thinking about it. So I think one of the fundamental questions that need to be asked is how do we empirically try to understand or contextualise that in terms of determining when do I stop paying? We also need to look at the business case for payment for ecosystem services in relation to other business activities. I think that's important, but then there's another topic that we are trying to address which is called, well, let's say a regeneration or renovation. Because we are in a situation where the environment has been degraded already in a certain situation, agricultural situation. So you want to invest again. So what kind of money do you have to invest? Where does that money come from? Can this scheme play a role so that you can come to another stage of your business that enables you to have a better business? So are you able to use this money for a certain purpose, not just continuously, but to improve? But that's different from where you're looking at a situation where you want to conserve something. When we talk about valuing ecosystem services and not necessarily in the context of payments for ecosystem services, but that different ecosystem services are valued differently by different stakeholders. What's the value for money, particularly for getting donor support? If you can talk about using this for a short term as a transition to a better way of land management or marine system management, whatever, which is actually self-supporting, that's going to be a heck of a lot easier to get support for.