 Hello, everyone. Thank you for tuning in to the Straight Talk with our show. For our talk about our wonderful guests and friend, I want to talk about some upcoming events that we're having through our service run in corporate and art So wonderful on our program. So on April 1st, we're working on we're doing a fair housing event at the City of Bronson contours auditorium working with CVO EO and it April April is fair housing And so what we're gonna do there is that you forget a chance to To paint a picture paint or draw a picture about what fair housing mean to them We're gonna hang these art up around City Hall in the foyer, and then we have a QR code on There and people can vote on which ones they think is the best and it's praises to be one That's April 1st April Well, that's when you submit your art April 1st at the end of that month didn't we all choose prizes April 12th working with Vermont housing finance agency to To help individual educate them and sign them up for first-time home buyers This is going to be a new ski and we're gonna have free food refreshments And we have bounce houses in the gym for the kids and and it's a lot of other Service providers will be there to talk about like a human rights commission and like Who's gonna be see CVO EO and people who want to talk about what is what is um, you know The rights for a fair for the first-time home buyers, which are right which your rights are and so that's April 12 So that's gonna be fun free event come sign up you if you're interested in Wanting to own a place or have information about it We're gonna sign you right up and also going to be like credit unions and mortgage companies and these individuals will be there April 27 I so wonderful have a graffiti cleanup and it's gonna be awesome It's called it's called art so wonderful graffiti sunset cleanup and it's from five to eight and it's in the evening It's gonna be like an hour to clean up and we'll have Cleaning materials that's gonna be we're gonna start to kick it off at the con toys auditorium and city hall And so we're gonna kick this event off. I'm gonna give you our supplies Our code enforcement officer bill Ward will be able to train people like tell you this is how you wipe off graffiti and This that another and afterwards we're gonna have like a live entertainment so you stay there for for Here to DJ play and we'll give you these cool swag bags from From businesses around downtown church tree marketplace So these things are a lot of things, you know, we're gonna you'll sit on your social media You'll see it on all around you see our posters everywhere. So right now My dear friend Lieutenant governor David Zuckerman is here and thank you sir for being being here today And so, you know, you've been on a show before and the whole thing about it is that we want I love to have you here because now you're a busy person and not many people get to hear about Stuff you're working on, you know, and you know this is now this is a knowledge of me. You always come with knowledge for our Audience to learn about Vermont and what's happening here, you know and what you're working on and so we're gonna start off Well, I'm gonna ask you What do you think the state of Vermont is I mean like that's a broad question but you know the state of Vermont is, you know, you know, we I guess I don't know, you know, you know far as some economics, you know about um, you know, the things and what might be working on that that you working on that make us Successful as people in the state Yeah, I mean I think part of making Vermont successful is is what the state does with policy On the other hand part of what makes Vermont successful is what people do And their day-to-day lives not only in their their business or work situation But also how they work and volunteer in the community or help their neighbors. So, you know, I think in general We're very fortunate There's certainly a lot of challenges out there don't get me wrong but people When I think about Vermont compared to what I hear or see in other places, we still do a lot of community-minded activities whether it's the the topics you've been organizing around in April with Fair Housing Month Whether it's, you know business folks are contributing their some of their business either profits or products to community events like you just talked about It's not universal by any means And I think sometimes there's a reliance on on the goodwill of neighbors to sort of help us get through everything But some of the things we have to get through are bigger than neighbors can necessarily do all their own Now they're dealing with climate issues and You know the flooding of last year or if we're dealing with something like our housing crisis where because of Vermont's politics relative to other states And because of the climate crisis and because of how we handled COVID we're seeing a real influx of people Which is driving up housing prices driving down housing availability Some of these things are bigger than what a neighbor can solve Neighbor can suddenly come up with a house for people And so that's where the policymakers get involved and whether that's Adjusting policies so that it's easier or harder or different as to how to build housing or enough housing or whether it's raising revenue to subsidize the housing so it's more affordable for working-class people or whether it's Changing Act 250 which is a term people hear about but maybe they don't know what it is but it's a land use and development law that was past, you know 50 years ago more than 50 years ago to really prohibit or limit Unbridled development of our hill sides because it was right after the highways had been built and people were moving to Vermont from Massachusetts and New York and they were ready to build houses up and down the sides of the hills Didn't matter about erosion didn't matter about septic and sewerage and so that that Law was passed to have us make sure when we develop housing It's done in a way that that is Not destructive to what a lot of things we love about Vermont. Well, that's one of the laws as you talk about where Vermont is now That's under review once again It's it's designed To limit development, but at the same time it has made it sometimes where in some places Housing should be but it becomes more expensive because it's there to build there and there's been a number of studies done across the Across the state this last last summer and fall with groups from people that want to protect our environment natural resources both short-term and long-term people who want to do development people that are You know regulators of development to say what are the aspects of this law that are, you know, 50 years old that Could be adjusted to encourage Sort of ecological and affordable housing in town and village centers without encouraging sprawl and environmental sort of space consumption that's a big topic in my pillar this year to To move towards being able to build more affordable housing But the devil's always in the details and some of the parameters that people like myself are looking out for is if we make it easier to Do development our developers going to build affordable housing or they're going to develop Market-priced housing which right now the market prices are way out of reach for most people And so those are some of the parameters that we'd still want to look at and say if you can build more housing more densely Which will make it more cost-effective to do it But you only build high-end housing that way then you're not really helping the average Vermont or who's really struggling right now With housing so that's a big piece Yeah, so it's so act 250. It's all about just really really real estate and development That's all about like real estate or it's not just real estate It's it's commercial and industrial as well But it's saying if you're going to pave over this big area to put up a big building for Commerce and so forth. Well that whole area is not going to absorb water when it rains Where's the water go? Well water's going to run off the parking lot and have to go somewhere Well as we you know to Joni Mitchell pave paradise and put up a parking lot. Well if that happens in too many places or Rivers are bermed up so that flood areas that when it gets high no longer flood because it's blocked off That water goes downstream and we see that In the floods we've had whether it was Irene or now the flood of 23 The more you develop areas the less water is absorbed in the ground and the more it's got to go down the rivers And it floods our downtowns and village centers. So act 250 is really I think trying to look at the bigger picture beyond the immediate moment and Yet at the immediate moment. We have a horrendous housing shortage We have to be thinking about how do we rebuild in those areas that are flooded in a way that says okay We can still live there or we can solve business there But how do we do it in a way that those things aren't going to be costly when they get flooded again? Because we don't have the money to just keep rebuilding the same thing over Yes, so act 250 on the one hand gets a big big mark on being prohibiting development It doesn't actually prohibit development, but it makes it so that as a community We talk about these different elements of what's important when we do develop now I mean this is way out the way, but how like to sign this on a highways I mean we don't have any so is that part of act 250 like no no the billboards the billboard the billboard No, that was a separate law, but it was passed similar time. I don't remember which was first I wasn't here then and I just my memory on the history isn't sharp But no the billboard laws were passed decades ago As another aspect and and they're related in terms of how we view our landscape sure and I you know I regularly hear from people when I'm at the farmers market on Saturdays or Just around the state house when tourists come by they go God You really know when you come into Vermont because it just looks different They sometimes don't even realize it's the lack of billboards. Sometimes what you tell them they're like, that's it But if you're in other states you see all those billboards and as soon as you come into Vermont You see our mountains, right? Steeple's are the rooftops of the villages off the highway people people really recognize I'll tell you to the lieutenant governor is that There's there's no lights on highways either. I mean come on bro You know me like one minute driving on the same the land, you know, like on the road the next Oh the next side of over the highway. It's like a drop like, you know Usually on the highways they've got pretty good guardrails and stuff. Oh, yeah Most highways got good guardrails. Yeah, my most highways don't have lights on them But the the main roads, you know, do in the village areas out there over my highways. Yeah, yeah, yeah See the sky, you know, there's a lot of people that see you know, you see the stars or you see the moon That's something that a lot of people value it tells me your direction. Yeah, it tells you a lot Oh, yeah, well, I love you here. I love my sentence. I've been here since 89. So obviously I love love the place You know, we both in the same time. So I just thought actually that question now So you talked a little bit about housing. So no, it's no there's a crisis I think around the country isn't it about housing or that's sometimes we we see the problems here in Vermont and think they're only here There for instance law enforcement public safety and policing nationwide There was a drop in people going into law enforcement, you know post George Floyd and so many others and That's That's a topic that is not only Vermont, you know people quickly point fingers at certain politicians or certain political leaders But the point is that public safety is an issue broader than purely law enforcement of breaking laws, you know Public safety is about housing public safety is about having decent-paying jobs. So people aren't stressed to Meet their bills Excuse me Super Bowl last night. So yeah, I'm a little later than usual but but You know these issues are national housing is a national issue It's it's more acute here Because I've often said so if New York City or Boston loses 10,000 people say 10,000 people move out of either of those cities out to Rural, you know Vermont or off to Texas wherever they go Those cities don't even notice. It's like losing an eyelash, right, right? If 10,000 people move to Vermont, it's a huge influx Oh, and suddenly the thousand homes that were for sale in Vermont have six buyers each, right? You know 10 buyers each and how do Vermonters compete with folks who are selling properties down there that are two three five times the price So housing is a huge issue. No doubt people may or may not know this but Vermont is either I think we're second in the nation in Second home ownership and so a lot of people again have second homes Two friends and I you know, I always try to be transparent. We co-own a property in Roxbury We're trying to fix it up and make it rentable and also for us to go to visit and vacation on the land, but But as but second homeowners, you know, I kind of have a philosophy if you can afford a second home You could pay more to make sure other people can afford no not about it I guess but that's that's gonna be a big topic of discussion over at some point because some folks say no no more taxes no matter what and If I could take your time for two minutes tell you I want to hear so A two summers ago when I was running for this office again lieutenant governor. I was at Thunder Road it was probably at that point maybe late September even October and it's the milk bowl and You know four or five thousand three thousand people there and I'm walking through the crowd and this guy goes wait a minute I know you I hear you on this radio show and that's that WVM T with Kurt right and And he said you know, I don't always agree with you, but At least you always say what you think I said fair enough Well, he was wearing a Miami Dolphin shirt So since we just had super last night, I'll bring this up and I said, why would you have a Miami Dolphin shirt in New England? We're either a Patriots fan for the most part or you're a Giants fan from New York, but Miami Dolphins like that sacrilege and he started tell me about it And the guy next to him came up and said I want to know why my vanity license plate costs more and more money every year And I said here's the thing it costs money to run government no matter what You're either gonna pay it through taxes which can be more progressive You could say hey wealthy people could pay a little more so working-class people don't have to pay more and more when they're struggling to pay their bills or through fees and Because people keep electing folks that say no taxes no taxes no taxes The fees go up so that license plate fee or your fishing license or your hunting license those go up And I said you got to pay for state employees to do this work and the first guy says well We know that's never gonna happen, and I said that's because dumb bleeps like you Keep voting for these people say no taxes when people like me want to see us reverse some of those 40 years of Reagan I'm a trickle-down tax cuts for the rich reversed and And they all laughed you know the reality and they were chummy about their laughter and they enjoyed that I was straightforward, and I swore and whatever right, but the point is that We have to talk about resources Taxes are often the word resources is used as a as a euphemism for money and taxes as a society rich people Used to pay when America was great when make America great time was whatever that was maybe the 50s or 60s The top income people in America paid 70 80 90 percent of those top dollars in taxes That paid to build our roads that paid to build a for invest in affordable housing that paid for the GI bill That paid for a lot of things that made it so everyday working people Could survive better in society and ever since the early 80s when Reagan passed those bills and then since then with neo liberals Sometimes Democrats as well past laws to lower the taxes on wealthier people. Are we better off today or we worse off? I think more people are struggling today. I think of housing is less affordable today I think educational opportunities and and are fewer for a lot of people today than they used to be and And we're paying for those challenges out there on the street so So housing is an issue that's going to take a time to solve because we've taken a lot of years to get into this Problem, but again back to the second homeowners Vermont has the second most second homes in the country. I Believe it's something like 16 percent of our housing units our second homes That's a lot. We have I mean seem like a lot. It's a ton and we have a lot of people that can't afford homes The two is a clear blend so I think those of us with second homes can pay more in taxes to make sure we could build More housing for everyday people to have houses. Yeah, so Well, you know homeless people right now, what about that issues like Like I think the city like you know homeless people like to see the Bronson put up those You know, I'm gonna come show to that hate to come pod because some of her people use the word pod people Just put up over to say that 35 shelter units and in Bronson and And so that that's something but you know, I you know really You know, it's kind of like a band-aid, but I guess it would does get people out the cold And I think the state it's probably like six months or something at the maximum And then for you to go on to find something irrelevant to your housing So but there is no, you know, well, I don't see where they're gonna go. We're not no I mean we we are clearly Many thousands of housing units short You know, we have a lot of long-term rentals being turned into short-term rentals because they can make more money Like I said people are moving in Fewer people are living in certain houses. We have to do a combination of things. We need short-term Housing we have to get people housed. So whether it's the pods or whatever you want to call them Whether it's congregate housing, whether it's the motel vouchers the Senate Just put more money into the budget adjustment act on Friday So the house and center are gonna work out their differences But that money is supposed to help people stay in those motels for the three months from April 1st to June 30th To get us to the next budget cycle We know we know that when people have a house or a shelter or a place That's reasonable to go back to every night where they can clean up where they can Change their clothes to clean clothes and can go get a job That is a foundational basis of stability that lets people get back on their feet But we also know that congregate housing or pods or different things like you are these hotel rooms. Those are temporary That's not truly stable housing. It's far more stable than living out on the street or living in a tent or you know Under a tree boughs with blankets and a tarp on you But we also know that there's a range of things that people need they need stable housing But if you've been on the edge of financial distress for a long time, or if you've been living on the street for a long time There's probably mental health from the stress of all that. There's quite possibly substance use disorder You know, whether it's the opioid crazy tragedy situation that's going on right now or Or other drugs alcohol So we need to we we need it. We need a huge invention intervention to help people get back on their feet and some folks talk about Using public safety, which also means law enforcement in some aspects of it to just Put people into locked facilities That costs even more money than temporary housing does or these other services and doesn't Help people get back on their feet So Yeah, so so there was a time well, you know, you're good Like, you know a lot of across the country not just not just They're not, you know, defund the police, right? Defund and they did They had an issue around School resource officers. They had to go back out on patrol. Well, usually they didn't so what just which are my understanding of the vote was to Not defund law enforcement But to as and it didn't happen the way they intended. Well, that's completely true But was as law enforcement officers left the force The idea was don't replace them with another law enforcement officer replace them with a social worker, right? It's a health counselor or other supports so that the crimes of poverty would be addressed through a different means Then purely arresting more people and putting them in jail Now it didn't go the way it was planned for a number of different reasons One is a lot of members of the force left all at once instead of over time You know one or two people leaving every, you know, three to six months and you replace them with someone else You know you don't have this collapse all of a sudden so the collapse happened, but also The administration either couldn't find or didn't look hard enough or I don't know what to fill those positions with these other types of service providers But it was actually never about defunding. It was reallocating But sure those words were used in Vermont. They were used all over the country I don't think they were actually productive words right now the world of sort of social discussion around political process People want surface people want safe streets. Yeah, don't want to walk around being Yeah, I think I'm not sure about the wrong place got done like 70 some officers or something And they always already was short. You know me they always wanted over a hundred I said over my state police fair and partial police in the community advisory and they they still want a hundred more troopers right now I'm like a hundred troopers. Right. Wow. That's a lot. You know to me. That's a lot Seems like a lot I mean, I think Vermont is an aggregate someone told me the day. I don't I don't know this is an accurate statistic But somewhere across Vermont in total municipal and state We lost many hundreds of law enforcement at that same time So it wasn't just a vote of the Burlington City Council that did it. It was the national sentiment about whether law enforcement was Looking the other way when certain law enforcement officers were not Treating each and every citizen with the same dignity and respect, you know, like I said it was it was on the heels of George Floyd, but you had Breonna Taylor. I mean you had we could list a hundred names Javon Martin hundred names a year thousand names a year and So the the public's trust and confidence was broken. I think there's a real effort on the part of law enforcement I think there's a real effort on the part of the public to say public safety is a combination of law enforcement housing Social workers mental health workers to say the broader issue of public safety is more than just about crime and And we have to rebuild trust for our law enforcement officers and we have to train them in Implicit biases so that we We tackle these topics in the community way that we need to yeah, so it's like um, yeah Like you know black lives matter It means a lot of things, you know me But I know one thing for sure that I come with we was part of this board of online Common Alliance what you might with all the different chiefs around and I wanted to figure out There was years ago figure out how we can make things better between the relationships with the people by park POC people you know saying and and So one thing we came up with the data collection and whereas that um, you know, you probably know Stephanie Següino You know, you know, you know, we came on a part of that our group and she did a lot of she did the findings of statistical and we found out like France African-Americans like I'm Vermont State Police like 85% of people they stopped what people who look like me right saying with the bronzer, please I mean come on man We only like to where at that time probably 1% is 1.0 percent of people who lived here Certainly, we're at 80%. Huh? Certainly weren't 80% of the pop So it's like when you say driving while black, that's right. Yo, bro. That's for real for real. Yes, it is you know, and so those are the concerns that that I think were unheard for a long time by the broader public and by politicians and elected officials and Again, it took the tragedies Coming to light partly because of cell phones that we have here capturing it on film that You know, why were people being treated the way they were for the relative scale of crime that they were Alleged to have done and as you pointed out even the maybe the non-crime of simply driving while black But then being profiled or someone being concerned Well, if you're if you're black and driving up 89 or 91 or you know, what not then You you are probably someone who's bringing drugs to sell in Vermont and then buy guns and bring back to New York, right? Well That certainly does happen But it is it is a fraction a very small fraction of the black or the white people that are driving north So these are the kinds of things where We have to be looking at these statistics and say there's a reason why some of the trust has been broken on the other hand We also have to look at why are so many people buying those drugs because if we if we There's some that say well, just keep arresting the people bringing the drugs. Well, guess what you arrest one There's five more driving behind them because there's money to be made It is actually it is capitalism. Yeah, right. There's money to be made and they are selling a product because there's demand If that's not the definition of capitalism, I don't know what is so we need to work in our communities on after-school programs we need to work in our communities on Support programs for people who have substance use disorder and help them wean themselves off. We need to reduce that demand and Get people back on their feet. We have 16,000 unfilled jobs in Vermont. We need to make sure they're paying well enough I would argue universal health care would help all our small businesses compete with bigger businesses for those There was a potential employees for jobs because most of us in small business can't offer health health insurance So some sort of universal at least primary care if not broader We are going to keep having the problems we have if we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again but we cannot treat people differently solely because of what they look like or who they love or whatnot and you know, that's so that's that's Happening more and more or or seeming to happen more and more and And we need to break that down and move back to the idea of each person as an individual Yeah, so it's like it's tough man because like, you know people look at Vermont, you know who we are We're you know, we're first of all we're like one of the most expensive states to live in yeah, and also You know, but we're beautiful with the green the green mountains and lakes It's almost a trade-off partly as beautiful as we are because we've restricted where stuff can happen But restricting where stuff has happened make stuff more expensive, but they leave out the part, you know drugs In minutes like it's like any large large city now. We're like we're not Don't think there's no drugs business. I think people might get shot right downtown in the park, right? You know in our city hall parks all the time all the time these things are happening Well, they're not shot all the time shot. They're not shot all the time Okay, there are people who are shot and it's too frequent But we have to be careful about the words we use because all the time would mean like right now every day Okay, now. No, you won't look at it like that. Okay. Well, I Working in the public official sphere The worst I don't care whether it's being right left or right or somewhere else if we it is so easy And I don't fault you for this I do it too if we rhetorically start to say things beyond where the facts are sure then It distorts things. I mean that's what our former president does every well, you know, I guess I guess our former president I don't get me wrong. No, I get it. But I guess I should use the words differently, but but but but people Possible to be shot any day being living in Vermont since 1989. I've seen the chains Incredible gigantic change whether it be in us building new places, you know Economics, you know, but it also in crime is is the risk is higher. It's more it's more High risk in a lot in a lot of ways. Well when you come down to like a homicides I mean, you know, I'm welcome not every day But I'm just trying to say but look that number is one up a lot homo homicides have gone up But if you look at national trends and you look at Vermont trends from 1990 Which I actually did in my last lieutenant governor newsletter We are actually lower than 1989 what happened was it went down for like 30 straight years And then the last couple years it's gone up And so our memory is that it's higher now and it definitely is higher now then at our lowest just before the pandemic But overall crime is down from the late 80s and the 90s But it doesn't matter what the statistics say if we feel and you feel it you're like it's higher It's worse fair enough if that's what we feel then that's the reality we're in and and so partly, you know If someone goes downtown and they don't feel safe then then what we're doing is not working now whether they don't feel safe because There's panhandlers and there's needles whether they don't feel safe because they're afraid they're gonna get shot All of those things if you don't feel safe and people are gonna stop coming into Burlington Because of that that's bad for people who have kids in the schools because we're starting fewer kids That's bad for our businesses downtown because people are gonna stop coming downtown to shop. That's bad for, you know housing So it the facts do say one thing and how we feel really matters and You know a lot of people don't feel safe across the social and racial spectrum but We still have to recognize that people of color black and brown folk still feel disproportionately and actually are disproportionately apprehended or Intersected with law enforcement and we have to figure out how to address that because Nobody should feel unsafe either from what's going on on the streets or what's happening from public safety. Yeah, well, you know So I agree and thank you for I don't give me the facts But there's a lot, you know, since all these tragedy with a lot of other individuals african-americans who? pairs underneath under the law enforcement Hands So things change right that the black lives matter change on people start hiring diversity equity in the jet justice equity inclusion DI and You know coordinators, you know our racial equity inclusion belonging coordinators and so You know For me, I think that's a good thing, you know But but it's also don't bring people. You don't you don't you don't bring, you know When you when you start hearing equity the word equity you might have heard all your life But I never heard started hearing it I want to hear the word equity never coming up or nothing never here Right until this start happen everybody wants your equity right equity me. I don't know we what does equity mean to you? You know, well, I mean that there there's there's equity and opportunity and then there's equity in what you have and there isn't Fully equity in either of those places, right? We know that wealth accumulation that in this moment in time the average white person in our country has an asset value whether it's partly owning a home or Things that you own Or bank accounts or stocks The average white person has I think it's about a hundred and twenty thousand dollars or a hundred and thirty thousand dollars in wealth The average person of color has around 18 or 20,000 so That's not equitable and that's due to the things that some people say you can never talk about these things. Yes, you can our systems aka systemic racism has occurred from redlining to unequal application of the GI bill For people who served in our military served our country through wars Then did not get the same GI bill Opportunities if they were a person of color black or brown versus if they're white Well those opportunities of education those opportunities to buy property, which is a way to accumulate wealth has led us to the inequities of today and So that's one form of inequity and we have to think about okay What do we do over time? But we also have to recognize that not everybody who is white has the same equity I was lucky enough to come out of college without debt. My dad was a doctor We were better off. I was he had he had passed away about time I went to college, but they had set aside resources for me to go to college My mom helped me with a down payment on a house in Burlington back in 1994 that I bought for a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars I own that house today with no debt this duplex. It's worth more than a hundred and twenty thousand I can guarantee you that so Does that because I'm some brilliant person? No, I had good fortune to come out of school without debt and to have a little bit of help for a fifteen thousand dollar down payment Not everybody has that most people don't but also most white people don't either and there are a lot of working-class White people who come out of high school also don't go to college don't have high-paying jobs and they're struggling too So equity is an economic measure that if you just do my averages makes makes it look Pretty bad and it is pretty bad, but it doesn't really describe the variation within each group The other equity is equity at opportunity and that's why to me investing in public schools is so important It's saying no matter what your background There is a school that door open to you and you have an opportunity to learn You have an opportunity to learn to learn to read you have the opportunity hopefully in most schools to do basic industrial arts You have the opportunity to learn science social studies and Those opportunities we need to continue to to fund and create so that our young kids feel like they have the potential at a better future and one aspect of that is seeing more people like themselves in the books in positions of leadership business or governance and You know slowly we do have that in some cases in other cases. We still don't But equity there's equity in what you have and there's equity in the opportunity of what you can get and in neither case Do we have equity yet? But I would say in a just in civil society we need to keep working towards that. Thank you. Thank you to the government. No, no So everybody said could I sit on these of anti-racism and things commissioner or human rights commissioner and all that that I am And people are saying using that word equity that everybody has equity and Equity equity equity and it's an incredible buzz word, you know for me how I see it because I mean I love to hear your thoughts on it well, I Think you said it more eloquently than I can just like I would try to say it But you said you said I think real good. I think equity what it means to me is like It's giving the visual the same opportunities like you know a lot for instance you go to love this hypothetical Well here goes Well like first like a lot of the information like I I work with them like like I'm on North Street all time talking to people I know I used to live on the street And like on King Street, I mean in Rutland like backstreet not gonna own a house there People that's kind of economically used to be on economic chance. However, it's environment, right? Nobody gets the information about nothing about housing or jobs or you know in that neighborhood and that post in nowhere That's right But you go on to the better parts of the neighborhood like say the south end of Brunswick first you find you get all this information about these individuals Residents get the information the good stuff, right? Why don't why I think equity is like getting everybody the information that Everybody should get you know, right? Nothing too is like And this is a fact. It's not nothing It's true. It's like if you you can live in the owner family beautiful and diverse and that you know as it is and live there in a place You're gonna pay the same amount there that if you was living in the south the south end of Brunswick and and People it's just what happened the people the places in in the owner family for instance lot of them are like kind of blighted They're not up there Probably the only thing about it is up to code I mean to some extent, but they're not looking like the south end of places and they people who like might refer them to To the houses and some don't even think about referring them to south end places, you know, these not not people of color They don't even they said right there. No, no fin or or high-risk in areas There's a couple of reasons for that. I mean the prices are different. They're at the same and people who are in use I mean if you was a Like a two-bed room. Yeah, you see and it's they're not the same Well, I know I mean not to buy a place. Well, I'm saying well to buy a place the prices are different To rent. I don't currently know Well, I believe you then I Rent a property the one I'm the somewhat earlier in the old north end and I rented for about two-thirds or three-quarters of market rate But that's I also own it outright and don't feel like it's fair to have prices the way they are right now I mean a lot of people talk about a lot of landlords say well if property taxes go up we just have to raise raise rents to make up for that and They're they're way above the price they paid for those properties in a lot of instances if they've owned those properties for 10 or 20 years They are making good money and if property taxes go up by a couple hundred or even a thousand bucks They're still gonna make good money on that property without bumping it up, but But I think there are biases, you know, we talked I talked about earlier with law enforcement We all have them every single one of us. I've got biases. There's biases. We don't even know we have You've got them. We all have and and what happens with if we don't concentrate on learning about Why do we react a certain way to certain people or do we have an inherent thought that well if I saw You know a black person Looking to rent a property if if I'm assuming the old north end is less expensive because a little bit You know more run down and I'm gonna assume and I'm I'm being hypothetical and three out of theoretically I'm not trying to say I don't know sure but Think this person might not make as much money or they might not have as much money for a down payment Even on an apartment you got to put a first month or sometimes last month rent you're gonna direct them where you think the rents are less expensive and so then you start doing that and we and we just continue to concentrate the problem of treating people differently and then people being by de facto quasi red-lined into certain areas of the town true and that's a problem But you know to lieutenant governor. I think that they are putting people who looks like them in the same You know I can say melting pot not that's why I think yeah, they say this is where people like you are So we'll put you over there. Yeah, I do think there's a there's an effort by many not to do that but but also prices and I Do think the prices are lower in the old north end on average Then they are down in the south end because you have denser property. You've got So you've got more units per space Again, I could I could certainly be wrong. Yeah, I want to talk about buying the plant time. I've written this but um, you know Well anyways, I know This is this is the this is the discrimination that's how my time on the equity part. Yeah, I'm saying yeah So that there's no equity in that well If you know if if you got the same units in something not the same But you have units in the south end like you do the old orphan, you know, I mean that that two bedrooms They should be around this it may if they're the same rate price They should look elegant like like the south end places Well, and that's who owns the property and how they're maintaining it but also from an equity perspective if you're in the south end the number of people per park or Open space is far fewer because it's not as dense and so you don't have equity to the basketball court You don't have equity with respect to trails to walk on Or if you don't know about them like a lot of the old north end is right next to the intervail But to get there you got to go way over down Riverside Avenue and back down in you can't just go down the hill And so it doesn't seem like it's an accessible space so there's there are so many forms of inequity and They're often race-based. They're often class-based And the combination because of historical systems is is obviously very disparate And these are things that as a society we need to figure out do we want to continue doing that or not? And the conversations that are happening today are those very difficult conversations where Folks who have benefited from the past And you have a particularly large amount of resources and partly they've worked hard to get them There's no doubt, but they've also had hidden benefits to themselves. They may be blind to them To say Do you need as much as you have? When we have people that are hungry or we have people in inadequate housing whether it's unhoused or whether it's Folks renting and not getting the quality of housing they deserve That's the that's a societal debate at all times, you know, and so we're pushing that So, you know, another thing too is like since we're talking about housing a little bit I'm gonna say this and Like these shelters on the almost Street and Brown Street on 35 shelters Like in I'm from Chicago. So like, you know, the projects are like right in the economic challenge kind of if you think of it in high-risk areas the projects and probably most in the most Metropolitan cities areas, you know, right and same with Bronson now, they started those parts right at their owner fan Yeah, I mean owner fans not economically really that I remember when they was but now but it's still kind of high risk and you still find blighted blighted places and and it's still you know And it's got a reputation Right and and so but still they built those they put those places in it right at the start of owner fin and they put them like Somewhere, you know, right something somewhere else. Well, there's a combination of challenges there One is you've got neighborhoods that say I'd rather not have that here Right the the NIMBY factor Which is an element of fear again, whether justified or not and Maybe it is maybe it isn't but but the fear fear is a real driver fears what drives folks that that Trump elevates fear is what drives People who are fairly liberal and with resources to say well, I want to support that but not in my backyard It's still based on fear sure And the other side of it is The services that many of those folks need Social workers who can help find more housing Social workers that can help with the governmental policies that get those folks the resources they need to start putting their Shoes back on their feet and get back back up on their feet Resources around substance use disorder those tend to be closer to downtown and so You want this place where you're sheltering people to be within walking distance and closer to The place where the services are that they need so it's a combination of it's a good answer to the governor but um, you know Why that That's what I think that's what a lot of people who know who Necessarily have me in a room or somebody who look like me in a room will say No, absolutely. I don't I don't say I don't think that it's a good thing that that's why it happened I'm explaining why it happens. I'm being the messenger to say this is Why the decision makers choose to do it there? I don't think it's a good thing That it only happens there. There there are a lot of places. This could happen We have a lot of open space or parks or places where Such pods or or housing temporary housing could be located near um near a park or in a park And uh near a bus stop so that people could take the bus to those services But but I said it's a combination of factors. There is that not in my backyard factor as well Because of that fear Fear can be justified fear can be Not justified it still exists Um, and so all of these factors come into play as to why that happens And it's a shortage of resources You know again, I'll go back to raganomics and the fact that we have been squeezing Everyday people harder and harder for 40 years. We've been moving good paying jobs overseas for 40 years Doesn't matter whether it was republican presidents or democratic presidents You know, whether it's nafta under clinton or other free trade under different administrations We've moved a lot of decent middle-class jobs out of our neighborhoods out of our out of our state and um out of the country from all over the country And now people come out of high school and they can't make a good living wage All of these factors from that that squeeze of raganomic trickle down tax garbage Has left us with not enough housing has left us without the education system has left us without the social services To get these people back on their feet Whether it's in the old north end or whether we do it in the south end or whether we do it in shellburn Or we do it in underhill or williston Um This is a community conversation that we have to address that these are our neighbors These are our kids or our friends kids. These are people that are part of our community and We need to work with them with respect and with the full range of services to help them get back on their feet So, you know, we have a little time left, but we'll talk about the state of the world, man You know, yeah, for one frustrating and hard topic to another, you know, I just you know, I just you know You know, it's based on you know I think I can really give a opinion about a person whom we've been like stereotype or their slavery and but when you talk When you I can't give them really no opinions about two different types of necessities or diversities that that um While they feel the way they feel about each other, you know And because unless they say it because they say it because they live in that studio and that's That's that's what happens. You know, but So it's you know, I just I just wish that you know, like, you know, can we all get along? You don't kind of deal, you know, it's like how are we gonna straighten out this? And I know you I don't know we something some ways. I don't care. You find the words there, lieutenant. You know, you know It's tough man. I I Don't have all the answers to the world You know, there are sage people like Dalai Lama and Mandela and Vandana Shiva and others who who are just incredible thinkers in minds and we've of course got plenty in our own country too I'm just not naming them all I'm not remembering them all because there's more people that are wise than we could ever name right sure, but Fundamentally A lot comes down to the basic needs that we all have food Shelter housing That's shelter community a sense of of belonging a sense of reason for existing which sometimes is answered through religion Sometimes is answered through work sometimes answered through family But ultimately, you know, we have as humans in the last couple centuries Moved to a level of of Feeling satisfied through consumption, right? It's just more stuff and more stuff and more stuff. Well as we use more stuff That comes from somewhere and we are competing for that those natural resources all over the world and And the most fundamental needs are of course clean water food shelter But when I look at the challenges around the world if you look at the root causes of the strife that exists it's typically Those things and they're then hidden behind veils Of religion or hidden behind veils of well, you know, like in russia and ukraine Well, that was once part of our country and now it's part of another country Well over centuries and millennia Boundaries of societies have moved All over the world including indigenous cultures and populations in our in this land Where different indigenous peoples fought with each other over those basic resources and the question is can we as as Complex thinking individuals come up with a better system One where we solve our problems without, you know bullets and death or bombs and annihilation Or revenge like we're you know, we're seeing it's maybe used under different terms, but it's revenge Uh in israel and gaza where there is just Unheard of destruction where the dominant power is just annihilating, you know tens of thousands of palestinians Um for the actions of october 7th, but it's it's but those and other actions are from earlier than that Whether it's settling patterns whether it's back in 1947 whether it's before 1947 and Until we see each other whether it's a homeless person on the street of burlington Or someone in gaza or someone in ukraine or russia until we see people as dignified individual human beings that we respect If we continue to uh or or rural rural people whether it's from honor america We are those maga people if we don't find a way to say that is a human being And they are they are hurting or in pain and they are lashing out for for one reason or another Then we will continue to be pointing fingers at each other and and therefore feeling like we can cause people harm because we dehumanize them and We have to move away from that mindset and we as society as a whole um and I don't have the magic bullet on how to do that other than for each of us to do it as an individual in our daily lives and um You know it's We can do that individually But like we said early on and I suspect we're wrapping up here shortly You know when a flood happens we can all pitch in a little bit But unless we pitch in beyond the affected communities and all Help pay for rebuilding roads and culverts or businesses and houses. You can't do it just with local altruism It's it's the bigger form of government coming together from areas outside the devastated area to help each other and um So we have to do both we have to individually treat people with dignity and respect And we have to collectively put resources together to create educational opportunities build affordable housing Make sure people have the basic needs That they have and need in order for them to be helpful and productive members of society for others who have needs and That to me is the combination of individualism and collective action through governance Or community service and um, so maybe that's the positive note 10 not as I think we can do that Um, but it's going to take everybody looking inside themselves to do it Well, lieutenant government. Thank you for that incredible answer. Which is a good answer. I don't know I think the world is tough. It looks like you thought about it. Well, I think about these things all the time Yeah, fair enough. So now I have to ask you one question. What did you do with that lone ponytail? Did you did you give it or what did you do you got a frame? Well, no, no, it's not not a frame It's the different lanes. I've donated at times to kids with alopecia and kids that have other cancers that need hair and wigs Uh, we have fundraised sometimes for organizations in fact king street youth center and others back in 2006 or 7 I shaved my head and donated money to four or five different youth programs around the state This time it was uh An election fundraiser a year and a half ago. I said donate to keep or donate to cut And cut gave more money. So I cut it off now Like many it's getting a little bit thinner. So I don't know that it's going to be coming back again It might be gone for good. Um, but uh, but yeah, no, it's Wow, I mean, you see for us. Yeah, you know, it's like It doesn't seem weird. I mean, no, I've known you for I don't know 20 years 30 30 years. Yeah 30 years and it does seem weird that um I don't see it. You know me because I know it's like down way way down here. Yeah I know it was it was weird, but but it's okay. So last night You was hanging out with the on the football super bowl. Yeah, your team was who would you go with? I didn't really care. I'm a page fan I rude it a little bit more for kansas city because my daughter was excited about kansas city because of Taylor Smith and Kelsey and all that stuff and also to Stick her finger at some of the strange Crazy conspiracy stuff politically that was going on around it But my brother lives in san francisco and and purdy certainly Reminds me of that sort of low pick that did well kind of like brady But he was way at the end of the pick. So I just wanted good football and I know there were some bad plays in there But overall it was a good close game. There's a lot of fun. I mean, you know, I was like 30 quarter Man, I'm thinking it was like 10 or 6 or somehow 10 to and I was like, yeah 13 Yeah, yeah, it's oh, yeah, and so I was wondering. Oh, no, man. I don't know if I'm chief gonna do I really don't care because I'm a you know, I'm a patriots fan. I live in remorse, but I'm also a bears fan Sure you are, you know, they and the bears crushed my patriots back in 1986 Refrigerator Perry 46 10 that was so that's when I was a teenager and that was nice hurt to the soul It was not nice one yard line or something I love that. Yeah, he ran that ball and you're like 318 pounds. Oh, he was huge. I think it was even more than that Man that guy refrigerator Perry. I don't know where he is today, but I was 72, baby. Yeah, yeah So um, lieutenant governor, do you have any last words you want to say, you know, um, You know, it's always a pleasure to come on. Uh, I know that I talked too long and no, man You give a lot of good information Full take the full full scope of what I'm saying and and also can always reach out the websites right there LT gov Dot vermont gov and there's a info you can send an email and we'll get back to you on You know, if you say Dave your fos and here's why I'll read it. I'll listen. I'll at least respond that I got it Um, and maybe offer some statistics. Yeah, or you could say oh you're spot on or you could say I hope you'll Take on this issue whatever this issue is, you know, I one thing I want to encourage everybody to do is Reach out to your legislators. You know vermont is a small enough scale You can call your legislator. You can call your your congressional delegation You might not hear back from them directly, but your house and senate person in vermont We'll probably get back to you directly. You can find out who they are through the legislative website leg Dot state dot vt dot us So that's short for legislature leg period state the full word dot vt dot us And you can look up your legislator based on your address and or your town and you can call them up and leave them a message and it's a human scale here in vermont and your story your experience your wishes Are are valuable because they have no staff and so whatever you're an expert in Your life experiences your professional experiences your academic experiences Your reality is information that can help them make better decisions. It can help me. So reach out to the website Mine or theirs and That's that's what I would leave it with You can make an impact. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much lieutenant governor. Absolutely. And once again, thank you We have coming on to the straight talk for my shows. Always good to see you sir. Absolutely And so, um, thanks for tuning in to straight talk with my show everyone