 Hello, everyone. Welcome to this evening's talk hosted by Center for Iranian Studies, although we exist under the umbrella of SOAS Middle East Institute. But as this talk was very much focused on Iran and several anniversaries have come together, we decided to have an extra session in addition to our Tuesday evening lectures to have this talk tonight. So we're gradually waiting for all our participants to join us. I see the numbers increasing, but I might as well start the formal beginning of the evening by welcoming you from wherever you are. I hope you are safe and well. It's a rather lovely Thursday evening in London. I'm absolutely delighted. It's not only an institutional pleasure, it's a personal privilege to be able to welcome Professor Raul Makhosh to a lecture at SOAS. Any one of you who have ever looked up a reference about modern history of Iran, not just Iran, actually Middle East, but certainly about the reigns of the Ayatollahs, about work on the Pahlavi and Raja, you would have used one of the many sources authored by Professor Makhosh. There is so much to tell the resume is quite long, but Professor Makhosh, I feel that he almost belongs to UK a little bit because of completing, certainly, his doctoral thesis at University of Oxford, but of course the undergraduate and graduate studies in a postgraduate was at University of Harvard. Professor Makhosh has the advantage of not only being an academic, but also of being a journalist. So having written for Iranian newspapers, but also for the financial times, for the times, and that certainly comes across in his writing, not only is solid and laden with academic weight, but it's very readable. So everyone enjoys that. I was thinking earlier, this term around February, we always look for anniversaries or occasions to gear talks around that. And of course, double blessing is when a book has also been published. So that really is the cherry on the cake. And of course, we know that we have just had the birthday of Reza Shah that a few days ago, I think 15th of March, that has just passed. But also this year is the centenary, the hundred years since the coup that began the path of Reza Khan to becoming the monarch. And I thought, well, these are perfect occasions. And then, of course, to really make it fantastic. Here, I have the book for you. The recent, the latest publication by Professor Makhosh entitled The Fall of Reza Shah. So, you know, I was so delighted. I'd rather very nervously wrote to Professor Makhosh saying, would you consider joining us to give a talk? And I was delighted when you so graciously accepted. So welcome, Professor Makhosh, to the virtual School of Oriental and African Studies University of London. Are you well? How is life in the United States? Well, it's fine as we all are living under the shadow of the coronavirus. But otherwise, we've adjusted. And we're having, unlike London, a rather gray cold day here. We've changed weather. Yes. Absolutely. So if I think quite a majority of our participants have signed up have arrived. And I think we do need to start so I invite you all, and of course, invite Professor Makhosh to present the talk this evening, which with the title of Life and Death of a King in Exile, the final years of Reza Shah Pahlavi, founder of modern Iran. So it's all at your hand. The stage is yours or the screen is yours, Professor Makhosh. Thank you, Professor Makhosh. As we know, Reza Shah seized power in Iran in 1921. And for the next 20 years, he dominated it. And with the help of very capable advisors, he transformed and modernized it. His reign, his considerable achievements, and also his failures have been written about extensively in books and in articles. My focus, I hope covering new ground, is on the events and circumstances that in 1941 brought about an abrupt end to his reign. And results and resulted in his involuntary abdication and exile, his life in exile, and his always tense and prickly relations with the British in this period, who had in whose hands he had fallen. When World War II broke out, Reza Shah declared Iran's neutrality. He wanted to protect Iran against the ravages of the war. Iran also had important trade relations with belligerence on both sides of the conflict, important to his ambitious economic and industrial programs. Britain was crucial to the operations of Iran's oil industry, the main source of Iran's foreign exchange revenues. Germany was deeply involved in Iran's industrialization. The Soviet Union provided the overland route through which much of the trade between Iran and Europe passed. Yet in August 1941, the Soviet Union and Britain invaded Iran and occupied it. The stated reason was the threats to allied interests posed by the large German presence in Iran. And the British feared that these Germans would constitute a fifth column, would attempt to establish a pro-German government in Tehran, or would engage in sabotage of oil installations and vital communications networks. But there was a second weightier and unstated reason. Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of Russia in July 1941, meant access to the overland route from the Persian Gulf across Iran to supply a Russia hard press by Hitler's armies had become crucial to the war effort of the Allies. But use of this route was of course incompatible with Iranian neutrality, hence the invasion. And having occupied Iran and needing full control of Iran's railways, roads, ports, airports and communication systems, and anticipating that Reza Shah might not, might resist or even obstruct full cooperation with the Allies, the British next engineered Reza Shah's abdication. They did so in a number of ways. The foreign secretary, Anthony Eden, authorized the BBC in its Persian language broadcasts to launch an intensive multi-day critique of Reza Shah's government for jailings and executions, for manipulating elections and controlling the press for amassing personal wealth at public expense and much more. Broadcasts that made clear to Reza Shah himself and his cabinet that the British did not want him on the throne. Also, directly and indirectly, the British ambassador in Tehran, Sir Reeder Bullard, made clear to the Iranian prime minister as and foreign minister that the succession of Reza Shah's eldest son, Muhammad Reza to the throne was itself a risk. If Reza Shah did not immediately abdicate, transfer all his wealth to the state for public welfare and leave Iran taking all his other sons with him. The British even briefly toyed with the improbable idea of returning the former dynasty, the Qajars, whom Reza Shah had overthrown to the throne. Eden, in addition, knew with near certainty that Reza Shah, fearing the Russians would arrest him if they occupied the capital which the Allies had so far refrained from doing. On September 16, Russian and British forces marched into the capital and occupied it and Reza Shah, as foreseen, abdicated and prepared to go into exile. Having abdicated, Reza Shah anticipated or was under the impression that he would be free to choose his own place of exile and the women in the family had settled on Argentina, a country with which they had no familiarity, but which they thought would be suitable due to its climate and its distance from the theaters of war. The British, however, had no intention of allowing Reza Shah to settle in South America or in any neutral country where they believed he might engage in intrigue, become a focus of Nazi propaganda and intrigue, and the focus of unwelcome media attention. They wanted him firmly in British hands, somewhere in the British Empire. They initially decided on India, but the viceroy, Lord Lineth Kao, was unwilling to allow Reza Shah to set foot in India, much less to settle there. After a hasty search for an alternative, the British settled on the island of Mauritius. It was sufficiently remote and isolated and the governor, Sir Bede Clifford, agreed to host Reza Shah. Reza Shah himself, however, was not told that rather than South America, Mauritius would be his destination until he was aboard a British ship, the SS Bandra, at the Indian port of Bombay. Feeling betrayed, he responded with anger and fired off letters to British officials, but the reality was he was helpless to do anything about it and he yielded to the inevitable. By now, the fearsome formidable ruler whose ferocious temper could leave his ministers quaking with fear had grown decidedly less imperious. His country had been invaded and occupied. His beloved army had collapsed under British pressure and to save the throne for his son, he had abdicated and was leaving the country to which he had devoted so much of his life, something in the man had broken. As he made his way across Iran and into exile, his daughters saw before them a stooped, suddenly aged man. He was no longer given to his ferocious fits of temper. For the first time in anyone's memory, he complained that he was tired. For the first time, members of the family saw tears in his eyes. He grew dismissive of the trappings of royalty that once had surrounded him. Bring it down, he said when he saw his picture in the office of the director of customs at the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas. There's no need for my picture anymore. To a former minister who came to see him on official business but feared incurring his anger, he said, don't be afraid. I don't count for anything anymore. Listening on Tehran radio to the attacks on him by newly emboldened, parliamentary deputies, he remarked bitterly, I quote, no sooner I set foot outside Tehran than the same persons who always praised and were sycophantic about my work and my actions are now singing a different tune. By the time Riza Shah and his family boarded the SS Bandra, the royal party was large. There was Riza Shah and his wife, her half-sister and lady-in-waiting, six sons, three daughters, his private secretary, his son-in-law, a cook and a number of servants. Before he abdicated and as the British insisted before he had turned all his property to his son for use in the public welfare, Riza Shah had been a very wealthy man. He had amassed a great deal of land not by the most commendable means and owned by some estimates 2,000 villages or parts of villages across Iran. In his bank account there was at the 1941 exchange rate 10 million pounds in his bank account. Now he was going into exile with a party of 19 with no money of his own. I haven't a penny to my name, he said. Where am I to go with this hoard? Eventually his money problems in exile were resolved by a regular transfers from his son, the ruling Shah. In exile in Mauritius Riza Shah was no longer a free man. The British, of course, determined his place of exile and the conditions of this exile also the degree of freedom they were willing to allow him and his family. They censored his mayor. They decided if members of his family from Iran could visit him and they and if any any members of his party in Mauritius wish to leave the island to return to Iran or travel elsewhere, British permission was required. The foreign office had issued guidelines to the governor of Mauritius that although modified from time to time governed the British handling of Riza Shah until his death in 1944. Clifford was told that there was no intention of treating Riza Shah as a prisoner. On the contrary, every effort should be made to make his stay as comfortable as possible. Clifford was told and I quote, It is only proposed that a discrete that a discrete surveillance should be exercised so that the extra should not feel slighted. However, in the event the extra or his family should attempt to cause political or other trouble in the colony. You have full discretion to restrict their freedom of movement by any means. Once in Mauritius, Riza Shah was beyond the reach of German or enemy agents, but British officials with no reason as it turned out continued to be concerned that he would cause them trouble. For example, on the eve of Riza Shah's arrival in Mauritius, an official of the colonial office observed that there were on the island 40 to 50,000 Muslims among whom Riza Shah might attempt to make trouble with perhaps assistance of the Pro-Vichy element among the Franco Mauritius. In that event, the official added, the governor might find it necessary to take firm action. All these concerns proved groundless. Riza Shah displayed no interest in engaging in intrigue or causing trouble among the Muslim community or connecting with the Pro-Vichy element among the Franco Mauritius. He disapproved of members of his family, the adults as well as the children of even mixing with the Europeans on the island. All he wanted was to be left alone. In his seven months on the island, he left his home and his compound only twice. He restricted himself with walking in its gardens. Mauritius, with its public parks, its green spaces, its abundance of flowers and mild, if very rainy climate, was hardly an unattractive place. Governor Clifford went out of his way to make Riza Shah feel welcome. He appointed a very capable research physicist to serve Riza Shah's aid and to see to his needs. The house that the governor's aids had found for Riza Shah was a fine three-story residence in a large garden in one of the best districts of Port Louis, the Mauritian capital. Clifford selected the best French cooks on the island to staff the house. His wife, Alice Clifford, furnished it with furniture she had found French empire for her. She had found in the Port Louis Museum. The furniture had belonged to Napoleon's general, Charles de Caen, when the French were in control of the island. She was particularly proud of a magnificent four poster bread she decorated with a royal crown to her disappointment. Riza Shah refused the bed and he slept, as was his habit, on a rug on the floor. Riza Shah intensely disliked Mauritius. The wet, damp climate did not suit him. He felt he was a captive on an island surrounded by water. He yearned, he said, for the cool, bracing climate of his mountainous country. He complained that he slept badly at night. Visibly despondent, he avoided contact with anyone outside his immediate family. When Governor Clifford, a tea with Riza Shah after he had been settled, asked him if he was comfortable, if all his needs were being met, Riza Shah replied, what shall I say? We are prisoners. We are used to great open spaces and the mountains. To us, this existence is like a death in life. Once he abdicated and while still on Iranian soil, Riza Shah abandoned the military uniform. He almost always wore for civilian clothes. He hated wearing suits, but for some reason he decided that no longer Shah or commander in chief, he did not deserve military dress. His son-in-law in Mauritius, to ease his discomfort, pointed out that Napoleon had continued to wear a military uniform even in exile on the island of St Helena, but to no avail. As was his lifetime habit, he established for himself a routine to which he strictly adhered down to the time of day. He had his first cigarette, he had his morning and afternoon tea, and he had his meals. As was normal for him, he rose early, usually at 5 a.m. and had his breakfast alone. After breakfast, he walked for two hours. After lunch with the family, he walked again and he walked again in the evening. To Clifford and his staff, this penchant for walking seemed what they called vigorous exercise and excessive. To underline that he was a prisoner and despite pleading by members of his family that he joined them for an outing to a movie or somewhere else, he refused. I'm a prisoner, he told his son-in-law, and I must behave like a prisoner. The only one of two times he ventured out of his home was to attend a formal black tie dinner given by Governor Clifford to mark the signing of the tripartite agreement between Iran, Britain, and the Soviet Union to regularize the presence of the allies in Iran. Even then, he did not join his family for the entire evening. Only after dinner was concluded, his son-in-law picked him up. He found Reza Shah sitting on his bed, partially and uncomfortably dressed in the black tie suit that had been sewn for him by Indian tailors when at the port in Bombay. He had his bow tie in his hands. He said to his son-in-law, God grant me death. What is this harness I must wear around my neck? From the moment he arrived in Mauritius, Reza Shah pressed to go elsewhere. To Canada, to America, to South Africa, to Argentina. Again and again, he mentioned relocation to his aid, Tonkin. He asked Clifford to raise the matter with his government, pointing out that at no time during the war had he acted against British interests. He was concerned only to adhere to strict neutrality. Had the British being open with him about the requirements, he said he would have been ready to negotiate. He asked his son, the ruling Shah, to raise the matter of relocation with the British ambassador in Tehran as the son did repeatedly. The British were not sympathetic. A move involved considerable cost, extensive arrangements, finding transport for a large family in a time of war, and securing the agreement of officials in another part of the empire to accept Reza Shah. As one official at the Foreign Office put it, we are under no obligation, moral or contractual in this matter. I do not see that we have anything to gain from moving him. However, there were other considerations. Governor Clifford was concerned that Reza Shah might grow more despondent and that his health might deteriorate if he were kept on the island against his will. The Shah in Tehran was present in his father's case and the allies required his cooperation. The tripartite treaty intended to put the presence of British and Soviet troops on Iranian soil on a more friendly and formal footing was under negotiation and yet to be signed and the negotiations proved difficult. Eden eventually relented and agreed to allow Reza Shah to relocate to Canada as he wished once the tripartite treaty was signed and the treaty was signed in January 1942. Reza Shah was finally able to leave Mauritius. The plan was for him to go by sea from Mauritius to Durban in South Africa and there to transfer to a larger ocean going vessel for the voyage to Canada. However, once in Durban in South Africa, Reza Shah took a liking to South Africa. He decided he did not want to risk the ocean voyage at a time of war and did not want to go to Canada at all. He asked to stay in South Africa and Jan Smuts, the South African Prime Minister, agreed, allowed Reza Shah to reside in Johannesburg and to be treated moreover as a distinguished visitor. These events explain how Reza Shah spent the last two years of his life in Johannesburg. Reza Shah felt far more content in Johannesburg than he had been in Mauritius. The climate suited him well and was closer to the Iranian uplands which he loved. In Mauritius he took his long walks in the city streets themselves. As always, he was attentive to everything he saw. At 65, Reza Shah had left Iran only twice. The first time as Prime Minister in 1924, he paid a very brief pilgrimage to the holy places in neighboring Iraq. As Shah visited Turkey as a guest of President Anzaturk, he had never seen for himself a modern European country, the kind of country he hoped Iran would become. Now he was struck to see European-style cities in Africa. He was impressed by the multi-story buildings, the orderliness of people getting on and off trains and going about their business. He was particularly struck by the large presence of women in the public space, dressed as he put it in men's clothes and driving taxis and even trucks. He was surprised to learn that the grocer and the washerwoman who came to his house were driving their own cars. The isolation he felt in Mauritius was also relieved by his ability to receive visitors from Iran. In June 1942, he received a confidant of his son, the ruling Shah, with letters and a photograph recording. Remember those? A photograph recording of greetings from father, from son to father. In April of the following year, 1943, his second eldest daughter, Princess Ashraf, came to spend six weeks with her father. Reza Shah is always hungry for news from Iran. He eagerly read the letters and newspapers she brought with her and bombarded her, bombarded her with questions about her son. He continued the ritual he had begun in Mauritius of listening every evening to the Persian radio broadcasts of the BBC and the Berlin radio and when it could be accessed, Tehran radio as well. When Reza Shah took up residence in Maurit in Johannesburg, British officials were concerned that the South African color bar would prove problematic or lead to embarrassing moments. As W.H. Young at the Foreign Office observed, the ex-Shah and his family are bound to have uncomfortable moments. Unfortunately, they are a rather dark-skinned family and tanking the aid who accompanied Reza Shah from Mauritius to Johannesburg added, the whole problem, the whole situation is further complicated in that they look on themselves as being completely and wholly white. As it turned out, these fears were not borne out. No incidents involving members of the royal family and the color bar were reported by British officials and members of the family in interviews conducted some years after these events recalled no unpleasant color bar-related experiences during the family's South African stay. The older boys seemed to have encountered no problems in enjoying what entertainment Johannesburg had to offer or to engage in what tanking called their amorous adventures. Another source of concern was that Reza Shah's five sons were not getting a proper education. The Shah in Tehran was unhappy to hear that his brothers' only amusements were cinemas and cabarets and that they were neglecting their studies. The boys did have some tutoring in Johannesburg, but it was spotty. The attempts mostly to know their to arrange for a proper education for the boys involved in time, officials in London and Johannesburg, the Royal Court in Tehran, the Iranian ambassadors in Cairo, the Iranian and British ambassadors in Cairo, and even the director of the British Council based in London. These efforts I mentioned because they serve as a kind of a mirror to the dislocation, the loss of moorings, the royal family experience in exile. The three oldest boys at around 18, 19, and 20 when in Johannesburg were already beyond school age. Reza Shah thought of sending them to Tehran, but the British ambassador thought this a bad idea. He cabled the foreign office that they would not complete their education, they would either away their time and get into bad habits, and he added the Shah agreed with him. The two younger boys aged 16 and 17 could not attend the local schools. Their level of education was low, they lacked the necessary language skills, and the color bar presented another problem. Over the next, the whole next year and longer, different proposals were considered and for one reason or another dropped. In the end, the two younger boys were sent to Iran, and the three older ones remained with their father in Johannesburg. Although members of the royal family were much freer in Johannesburg than they had been in Mauritius, British oversight remained, including censorship of letters and restrictions regarding visitors and travel. The application of these restrictions was common. For example, in 1943, the foreign secretary, Eden, directed that Reza Shah should not be allowed to receive any further visits from members of his family. By early 1944, Reza Shah himself had been noticeably growing more reclusive. His private secretary, Ali Izadi, noted that he avoided people had grown attuned to being by himself and rarely ventured down from his room before noon. He always ate his meals in his room alone. The advent of Noruz, the Iranian New Year, which coincides with the spring equinox on which Iranian families traditionally celebrate together as a moment of rebirth of hope and of high expectations, was always the most difficult time of the year for Reza Shah. Marking Noruz in March 1944, Reza Shah seemed to his private secretary, Izadi, more crest falling than usual. To his daughter Shams in Iran, he wrote, my health is not bad, but as to my state of mind, it is better not to speak. Repeatedly, he asked to be permitted to relocate to a place still in the British Empire, but nearer home where members of his family could more easily visit him. He told his sons in March 1944, he hoped this would be the last year of his life. British officials were unmoved. If Reza Shah were relocated nearer to Iran, they observed. This would suggest that British were planning to bring Reza Shah back to Iran, and this would have a disturbing political effect in Iran itself. And Bullard, the British ambassador into Iran, noted, as you know, we are anxious that he should remain as far away as possible from Persia. As a result, Tom King was instructed to inform Reza Shah that he must stay in Johannesburg for the present and for the duration of the war. Tom King did so and reported to his superiors, quote, he took it well, but said that as soon as the war in Europe was over, he was leaving even if on foot. I told him, Tom King added, I should be delighted to walk with him. By June 1944, Reza Shah's physical condition too had visibly deteriorated. And he had grown much weaker. He complained that he felt unwell, but as usual, he refused medication or medical attention. He was now taking his daily walk in his own room. And his private secretary, Izadi, noticed one morning that even this brief pacing was difficult for him. He suffered a heart attack before dawn on the morning of June 25, but attended by a team of physicians he seemed to recover. The arrival of his daughter, Princess Shams, in mid-July boosted his spirits. On the evening of July 25, with Shams there, he chatted and engaged in the banter he sometimes used with his staff. But the recovery proved brief. Early on the morning of July 26, Izadi, the private secretary, was awakened by loud knocking on his bedroom door. It was Reza Shah's servant Mahmood. Reza Shah won't wake up, he said. Izadi dressed and hurried to Reza Shah's side. He appeared to Izadi to be sleeping. Izadi later recalled the look on his face was peaceful. There was no sign of death on it. His hand was still warm to Izadi's touch. How is your Excellency's health? He asked. His master did not respond. Reza Shah had passed away. His long, unhappy exile had ended. Thank you. Thank you very much, Professor Bakhosh. It's really, I was thinking that, you know, reading your book, which have not got to the end because I only having ordered the copy a while ago, a few days ago. First of all, it's a page-turner, and I say that as a compliment. That it's really, in part, it's like a John Le Carrin novel that is intriguing and it is full of such amazing details. The minutiae of, like I said, the frogs are singing away in Mauritius, annoying him and all that. There are several questions coming through and can I invite our audience to please type your questions in the chat. And I wanted before I turn to the questions. This is such a painstakingly thorough research for these details. Were they, did you interview descendants perhaps of some of the retinue there, as well as the, you know, the documented material? You depict the image of this broken man and his, you know, desolate state in some way so clearly that it's almost as if it's like a documentary as if there is a camera on the wall watching him. No, I didn't really get a chance to interview anyone, but the documents speak for themselves, really. And the members of his family in years later did conduct interviews for a couple of projects here in the United States and so I had those records as well. Well, I think fantastic. Well, I'll pose my own questions and if I turn to our audience, so there are a couple of comments perhaps as well as questions by Dr. Baroy Yazdi, who says that listening to and reading about an interview that Professor Ann Lampton had given to Professor Abbas Milani. And in that she is supposed to have said that resorcio at the time when he left Iran had no money in any British bank and the idea that he had any was simply propaganda against him conducted by the BBC Persian radio. Would you like to comment on that? Yes, I think that's exactly the case that it was wrongly at bank accounts abroad, but he himself said to an aid that he had no money, except the money he had in Iranian banks, which was considerable, and none abroad. And in fact, because the, in fact, I came across a comment which is in the book that at some stage foreign office officials remarked that these rumors of his external bank accounts had served their purpose and really we should drop them, they've become an embarrassment. And but because this was picked up by the newly emboldened Iranian parliament, the government after his departure asked British embassies abroad to inquire about whether resorcio bank accounts abroad and none were discovered. It goes without saying that our audience are writing in to thank you for such a fantastic talk. I mean that really does not read repeating. Another question is regarding that the contacts that resorcio had you mentioned, for example, Princess Ashraf coming and bringing some letters and newspapers and the recordings of his son. But the question is that was he in touch with any of the notable former military commanders or political figures or any clerics that were left in Iran any evidence of communications with them? No, and of course clerics I would doubt it as Ashraf broke the power of the clergy in Iran. First of all, as I said, there was this strong British control over whom we saw, who we heard from, the mail was censored and in fact I came across records of the letters in the British archives, the letters that had been censored. The British were very concerned that no note of discontent with conditions, particularly in Mauritius, reached the royal court in Tehran. So any letter that complained about conditions was censored and the royal family itself commented afterwards they felt unfree to speak their real minds in their letters to Tehran. And the daughters that you mentioned, Ashraf and Ashraf, they went back and forth between Tehran and South Africa or no, they were in a third country doubt but I'm not clear. No, the Princess Shamps, the second eldest daughter and her husband, Feridun Jam, accompanied Reza Shah to Mauritius in exile but then she later tired of it and went back home and then visited him on one occasion. And Princess Ashraf resided once and stayed with him. Shamps came back when Reza Shah was already ill and there was concern about that and although, as I mentioned, Eden had instructed that no more visitors from Iran be allowed, they made an exception in this case because he was ill. Because I understand. A question, Professor Bahoshtad, with all this that you have laid out and followed on by the 1953 coup, this is a question that you might anticipate which I'm going to ask. Do you not think it is correct and fair that Iranians are paranoid and believe in conspiracy theorists? I mean, you know, do we need more evidence? Yes, I mean, there is this very conspiratorial set of mind among Iranians about the British who are still regarded as behind everything. After all, there was, first of all, a belief that the British actually brought Reza Shah to the throne. Then, of course, they overthrew him. They saved Mohammad Reza Shah's crown for him in 1953. You know, during the Iranian Revolution, as these demonstrations were taking place, these huge demonstrations, Reza Shah himself told Anthony Parsons, the British ambassador, we, meaning we Iranians, say you lift Amrullah's beard and there will be a British flag underneath. Yes. Now on to combining two more personal questions, querying. One is, could you speak a bit about the father and son relationship during exile, if you have any insights on that? And another is, could you describe, you know, the picture of Reza Shah's wife who accompanied him in exile? As to son and father and son, I really came across no correspondence between them, which is very surprising. Although, well, he did, I suppose. Yes, he did. I'm sorry. He did receive letters, but they were very general. And he wrote his son usually concerned about Iran or instructions about how to, how to, you know, what things to do. Yes. Nothing very revealing, I would say, usual. As to, you asked, I'm sorry, the second part of your question was corresponding. The wife and his wife. Any documents about her life in exile, Reza Shah's wife? Not about her life in exile, but she did go home. Yeah. And then, and then from Iran, continued to ply Reza Shah with letters complaining she didn't have money. Okay, so there is, there aren't many observations by the hosts or the British of her demeanor or her person for that. Very good question and surprise. I would say not surprising, you know, but not. She, you know, played a back role. Of course, it's not surprising. Two other questions is, so one is, you mentioned that obviously, Brits were not keen on Argentina. They wanted him on there where they could reach him. Therefore, why did they not send him to Canada and why South Africa? Originally, I mean, perhaps, you know, why would they not, if he wasn't keen on Mauritius and perhaps on Argentina and why, why was he not sent to Canada? Well, I can only tell you that when, when the viceroy in India refused to have him, the search for an alternate was really frantic. I mean, they even considered Kenya to say shells. I forget, but it's in my book, but a number of places they wrote to asking whether they would take him. But curiously enough, Canada wasn't one of them. But when Reza Shah then was so eager to leave, the Canadian government was consulted and permission the Canadian government agreed to receive him. And interesting enough, the, what the Canadian government was told was almost exactly what the, what the government in Mauritius was told, that nothing more is required than discrete surveillance. Of course, you will censor their letters. Additionally, we will bear the cost the Canadian government should not. But that was only when, you know, after Reza Shah, it was one of the countries he wanted to go to and, and after they decided to allow him to move. Yeah. And then a question from Dr. Kavan Musavi that in the course of such detailed research, what, what did your research influence your own assessment of Reza Shah compared to what image you might have had before? And do you view him a little more sympathetically? You know, I always, I think like most of us had mixed feelings about him. And clearly, he was extraordinarily capable. He inherited or took over, I should say, an Iran that was financially very weak, unable to control his own borders, unable to control the tribes, a political class that didn't seem to be able to accomplish anything. A country in which the great powers interfered. And he built it into something. So certainly, I was admiring for that. I also believed, and I still do, that he when he left, he didn't leave behind the kind he left behind a very strong states. And really, the institutions of that state survived today under the Islamic Republic. But he didn't leave behind institutions that might have led, as they did in, in other Turks, Turkey, to democratic institutions, a stronger parliament, a press free to speak out habit of mind among officials of being independent, instead of being sycophantic. So I was always critical of him for that and remains so to this day. But I did, I must say, come out of the research, yes, more sympathetic, particularly to his trials in exile, and also more appreciative of a man who, after all, came out of a village at very little education himself. And it is astonishing that he absorbed, he somehow managed to absorb all these modern ideas about reform, about schools and education, about the quote liberation on quote of women and so forth and so on, which is really when you think about surprising that how did this man with his very limited kind of contacts and world buy into the ideas of the reformers and the modernists. Yeah, for that. I know that, you know, the answer is in your book, but I am going to ask that a question about the account of Resosha's journey through Iran, obviously going towards India and then exile. Are there many accounts of his stay in Esfahan and Kerman on the way to Bandar Abbas, as you mentioned? Are there any records of how he might have been received and encounters with the local dignitaries, his treatment by them? Yes, I do describe these in my book. As I say in my book, this was hardly the typical royal progress. It was very hurried. Resosha sent his family ahead. He followed himself later with only a chauffeur driving him. His car broke down. His son-in-law saw him. They switched to another car emerging out of a battered car with just his briefcase in his hand. So and then, you know, some of the people who hosted him left memoirs. So we do. And on this trip out of Iran, he did reminisce some about what he had done as king for the country. He also was capable of a bit of humor. For example, it just so happened, I forget in which of the cities in which he stayed on is way out of Iran, that the several of the people who came to see him were limping. And he said, all our affairs are limping. And he said to his host, I believe in Isfahan, given his own penchant while king for taking other people's land. He joked with his host, I didn't know you had such a fine house. I'd have told them to take it from you. So there are accounts, very nice accounts, which I reflect in my book. Yes. So a question that comes from that you mentioned that the Vice-Roy of India would not let him in. Why? The question is why? Well, as I mentioned in the talk, he was concerned that the presence of a Muslim king who the British had deposed or forced out of his country would allow the Muslim leadership with the Muslim community in India, particularly Jinnah, to take advantage of this to make trouble for the British in India. That's very clear. Another question says that why the British thought that they could not work with Reza Shah left as a ruler of a neutral country? Would Reza have countenance a reduced wartime role for himself in Iran? And why was working with his son thought any less likely to lead to complications? And should the son reach out to Germany? Why did they think that the son would be different and not the father? I think it's a very good question and it puzzles myself. It just so happened that immediately after I graduated from college in the United States, I spent a year at Oxford and Sir Rita Bullard gave a lecture and I asked him two questions there, which I couldn't use because they weren't documented, but I asked him whether Hadreza Shah, as the British insisted, expelled a very large number of Germans from Iran would they still have invaded? He said, yes, we had to have an overland route. And I asked him whether they'd ever asked or put this to Reza Shah, told him about their needs and seen his reaction and he said no. So and I don't know why they did not do it. Perhaps they thought he wouldn't agree. Perhaps they thought the Germans would learn about it. I have no idea, but they did. They never put to Reza Shah their wartime needs and saw what his reaction would be. As to the concern about the German presidents, well, they really were deeply involved in Iran. They were the principal source of machinery for their factories and plants. They were involved in their railways. They were involved in communications. So the fear that they would cause trouble for Britain if they were so deeply involved in government affairs was, I think, not itself misplaced. But the rather common belief that Reza Shah himself was pro-German in that sense, pro Hitler, pro Nazi, there's no evidence for it whatsoever in the archives and Bullard himself in one of his dispatchers said that even as he was complaining about the German presence said that were Reza Shah free to speak openly, his sympathies would be with us. So he realized that too. And I don't think Reza Shah really ever fully grasped the kind of regime Hitler had established in Germany and the atrocities that he was committing. He simply was not knowledgeable about them. No, that is really, I'm conscious of time marching on and I thought take advantage of having the mic myself and I'm sure I'll find the answer when I get to the end of the book. And Russians were happy with this. There was never a competition that let us have him and exile him to where we would like to. You mean they were happy with the Brits sort of or perhaps they thought you can have the trouble. I mean, what was there must have been some discussion. You know, I had no access to this. I had no access to the Soviet archive, but there was never any, there was no expression in the British archives of Russian discontent with arrangements. I don't know, they sort of assumed that that's the British would take him into exile. They had enough on their own place, I think with this thing. Well, Professor Bachos, this really, I could have another hour easily. And I can't wait. I tell you, I keep thinking, I mustn't get into the book. I have essays to mark, I have classes to organize. And I'm really looking forward and I recommend to our audience. It is, you know, we're so close to this period of history and yet so uninformed about such details. And it is a very good read. I hope you don't mind me saying that, Professor Bachos. I'm very pleased to hear you say that. It's wonderful. And so it remains for me to thank you very much for taking the time to deliver this talk for us. And of course, on behalf of all our audience and on behalf of Center for Iranian Studies, I wish you a very happy new rules, which we're only about a day and, you know, six or seven hours away. And we very much hope that you will return and talk to us. There is such a wealth of knowledge and such clear analysis that I have several questions from our postgraduate students who, you know, really thank you very much for this fascinating eye-opening talk, as well as depicting such a personal picture of a man who we only recognize as a formidable, you know, frightening man. So thank you so much. And thank you so much to a wonderful audience, to staying with us. We wish you all a very nice new century, a new and a happy Easter. And all our druid audience, if they're amongst you, because at Stonehenge, they will be celebrating the passage of the Earth through vernal equinox. So all in all a very auspicious time. Thank you so much, Professor Bach. Thank you for inviting me. It's my pleasure and our good night to all. Shabetun bekhil, asretun bekhil, for you is in the afternoon, so we'll let you perhaps have time for a late lunch. Okay. Thank you, Aki. Thank you, Aki.