 The final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 7499, in the name of Craig Hoy on Scotland's hospitality and brewing sector. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put, and I would ask those members who would wish to speak in the debate to please press the request-to-speak buttons. I call on Craig Hoy to open the debate around 7 minutes, please, Mr President. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Pubs are at the heart of our communities. They bring people together to help to tackle loneliness and social isolation, but, since Covid, they have faced unprecedented pressures. The latest figures reveal that Scotland has 4,569 pubs which contribute 61,900 jobs. The sector generates £1.8 billion for the Scottish economy every year, but pubs and the jobs and the economic and social contribution that they deliver are all at risk. At risk from record energy costs, nearly half of all pubs are facing energy rises of over 250 per cent, and one in three are seeing rises of over 500 per cent. At risk from sky-high rates, at risk from increased drinks, food broadcast subscriptions and supplier costs, and at risk from a willfully negligent SNP Government, the preposterously complex deposit return scheme, absurd proposed restrictions on advertising alcohol sponsorship and merchandising, and a Government that now appears to have an anti-alcohol agenda. Rather than easing the pressure on pubs, the Government is piling the pressure on pubs like never before, and the industry minister is at breaking point. The Scottish Licence Trade Association says that 50 per cent of outlets were down in trade over the festive period, compared with the last normal Christmas and New Year season. Six in 10 outlets are closing early or for full days in the first quarter of this year. Wherever I have lived or worked, I have always had a good local, as much, if not more so, for the social contact than a good pint, the townside tavern, the plough, the market in Harrington, the Allian's Head in Dulloch, the Marks of Granby in Westminster, or when I was living in South East Asia, the Darby in Hong Kong, the Church of Barren Bangkok and the Penny Black in Singapore. Closer to home, just this weekend for the rugby, the Goblin Haw and the Tweedle in Gifford, all great pubs, places where I've made good friends and enjoyed beer and banter. The Friends on Tap report, produced for camera by Oxford University, found that people who have a local have more friends and feel more connected to their local community than those who don't. This week, I had the pleasure of visiting Dominic McNeill, who last year stepped in to save the tower in Trinent from permanent closure and change of use to housing. For years, Dominic had visited the pub with friends on a Wednesday night for a few pints and a few games of pool. Since taking over the pub, Dominic hasn't paid himself a wage and is still swimming against the tide of rising cost and red tape, but he is seeking to transform the pub into a family-friendly hospitality venue with a cafe. Dominic and his team want to put the tower in, back in the heart of the community of Trinent. He talked fondly of his customers, the man who brings in his wife, who suffers from dementia, for some company, a cup of tea and to watch an episode of Pointless, the elderly customer who suffered from COPD, who didn't show up for his bite as he normally would. When Steph realised that he hadn't come in, he went down and found him at his home suffering an attack. The pub staff called an ambulance and got him the treatment that he needed. Across Scotland, our pubs are so much more than places where people go for a drink or a bar meal, more than the bricks and the water, the taps and the table and the dedicated people who work within them. They are part of and at the heart of the communities that they serve, but sadly the future leaks bleak for many of our licensed premises. There are urgent interventions that the Scottish Government could take to save them. In England, pubs and hospitality venues currently benefit from 50 per cent rates relief, and that will rise to 75 per cent in the forthcoming year. Yet, despite receiving Barnett funding formula to deliver the equivalent in Scotland, the SNP is not matching that. The Scottish Beer and Pub Association has calculated that that will cost Scottish pubs £34 million this year alone. The average rates bill for pubs in Scotland has now increased from £13,206 to £13,627—a double whammy for Scotland's struggling pubs. Compare that to pubs in England, where rateable values fell by 17 per cent on average after significant Covid recovery discounts were built in for the whole re-evaluation period. Minister, we risk losing more and more pubs across Scotland. To help them to survive, the Scottish Government must urgently consider a package of post-Covid reliefs. I recognise that the Scottish Government must rightly act on the harm caused by alcohol, but we must also recognise that well-run pubs that monitor people's consumption are part of the solution, not part of the problem. People drink less when they are in pubs than when they drink at home. Covid lockdowns showed us that. All too often, the SNP Government funds experts and launches consultations that tell ministers what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. Instead of listening to an industry that already complies with strict licensing and trading laws, which adopts global best practice and invests heavily in effective self-regulation, the SNP Government appears to ignore the effective efforts by organisations such as the Portman Group. Minister, we tackle the problem of drinking by targeting problem drinkers, not by squeezing the last drop out of a sector that is already struggling. We reduce the harms caused by alcohol by addressing the root societal, emotional and physical causes of abuse, not by marginalising or penalising those who enjoy social alcohol consumption. We do that by directing funding towards local alcohol services and providing front-line support for those who are most in need. Minister, we do not solve the problem by removing the tenant's logo from pint glasses, by outlawing grassroots community sports sponsorship or by boarding up the windows of the Johnny Walker experience in Edinburgh. The Government should pause or, at the very least, massively scale back on its consultation on alcohol advertising. There is today also, quite rightly, huge concern about the impact of the DRS on Scotland's pubs. I will give way. Douglas Ross. I am grateful to Craig Hoy for giving way. We have had a lot of discussion about DRS today, but those concerns have been raised time and time again. Just this week, the front page of the Northern Scotland led with a start warning from Nigel Tiddie of windswept brewing, which suggests that, if the scheme progresses as planned, the cost will be the closure of many small businesses in Murray and across Scotland. Does Craig Hoy agree with me that we cannot face that cost? We have to pause this scheme. This Parliament should be doing that, and the Minister should be listening to what Nigel Tiddie and many others are saying. Craig Hoy. Absolutely. I agree with Douglas Ross, and I am sure that that will not be the only occasion where I say that. The inexplicably complex closed-loop system involved in the DRS will impose costs, complexity and cash flow pressures on pubs. The unintended consequences of crushed cans, broken bottles and the search for secure storage, along with collection and return problems, are all clear for everyone to see. Given that many of Scotland's pubs and hospitality venues are already leaders in waste management and do not result in littering, we have to ask why pubs are being included in the system at all. Further burdens, such as the DRS and an advertising and merchandising ban, will push many pubs over the edge in Scotland today. Unless it re-thinks its approach, this SNP Government will willfully and recklessly call last orders on huge swathes of our pub and hospitality sector. It is not too late, Minister, to save hundreds of pubs and thousands of Scottish jobs, but it is alarmingly very, very near to being so. I thank the member for bringing this debate and add my voice to those who recognise and applaud the stoicism and determination of many in the hospitality sector, including pubs in small hotels and restaurants and similar venues in the Borders of Midlothian, which, with Covid funding, though, not all received it, adapted as the epidemic progressed and somehow managed to stay afloat. I can think of one in particular in Peebles, the central bar in the north gate, a small freehold pub, almost like someone's living room, which had a hard time during Covid because it had not the space to provide food, so it missed out on support. It had its regulars for whom it was more than a place for a wee bevy, it was their social life. Undaunted by virtual closure, the proprietor took the time to redecorate and outside added hanging flower baskets. Visit his website and you'll see what a cheery place is after his Covid efforts. Now, thankfully, we all look forward to more normal times across spring and into summer. Indeed, a by-product of Covid was the popularity of the staycation and simple pleasures like taking a walk to a local cafe or pub. I think it made us all appreciate what was on our doorstep. It also means that we are supporting our local communities. Particularly in rural areas, those venues are part and parcel of the community and often play a large part in raising funds for charities. In terms of rates, there is, of course, the small business bonus scheme with some depending on rateable value paying, no rates and other a proportion. This policy for decades has helped small businesses. There is also the rural rates relief of your businesses in a designated rural area, start-up benefits and so on. All of this distinguishes the Scottish non-domestic rates from the English system, so I do not support the call for 75 per cent, as many small businesses already receive 100 per cent discount. It is like comparing apples and pears. It is also the case that the Scottish Government continues to pursue the Tide pub Scotland Act 2021, currently blocked by an interim interdict, while an appeal against judicial review, which has been won by the Scottish Government, goes through the court process. Success in resisting this appeal would redress the current imbalance, which acts against tenant landlords. However, one issue that I agree will cause difficulties is the deposit return scheme, where small pubs, hotels etc. will not charge customers a 20p levy, but will instead be required to store the empties to be collected when they will be recouped. Where will these be stored? I can think of several small businesses in my area that simply cannot store. However, then there is the high cost of energy, which is devastating for hospitality Scotland. Any hotelier, publican or restaurateur will tell you that this is the biggest issue facing them. It is not in the Tory motion, so the Tory motion is like a cure its egg, only good in parts. I note that the member made passing reference to cost of energy in his opening speech, as he did rising costs as a result of 10 per cent inflation and 17 per cent food inflation. Those are my far biggest hits on hospitality. Again, I conclude by recognising and thanking all those small hospitality businesses in my constituency for soldiering on through Covid, often with the support of their communities. I thank my colleague Craig Hoy for bringing forward this debate on hospitality and brewing. It is a much-needed opportunity to focus on the problems facing the sector, what the Federation of Small Businesses described as an unprecedented sequence of challenges. During the pandemic, hospitality did its best to adapt and, of course, the UK Government stepped in to protect a million Scottish jobs. Even so, Covid smashed through the economy like a wrecking ball. Businesses are still recovering, so being hit by a global cost of living crisis, as well as an energy crisis, was the last thing they needed. I have met frequently with hospitality owners and drinks producers in recent months, and I have heard firsthand how hard those problems are hitting home. It is worth reminding ourselves how important hospitality is for Scotland. The sector employs 200,000 people, delivers £9 billion of value to our economy and helps to attract millions of visitors each year. So the Scottish Government should be bending over backwards to help them to protect those jobs and to see that economic activity grows. However, they are doing the opposite, burdening them with higher taxes, smothering them in red tape and even refusing to meet them. In England, the UK Government is providing up to 75 per cent rates relief from next year. The Scottish Beer and Pub Association, the Federation of Small Businesses and the Scottish Tourism Alliance have all called for the Scottish Government to match that support, but the SNP and Greens have chosen not to. The Fraser of Allander Institute said that the Scottish Government's budget was taking a hard line approach to business. However, it is not just its budget that is hard line on business, it is its whole attitude. Just look at the proposal to ban alcohol advertising that they are consulting on. Just this week, the Scottish Tourism Alliance warned that the policy was, I quote, ill-conceived, high risk deliver self-inflicted damage to swathes of Scotland's communities. We all want to see sensible measures to tackle alcohol abuse, but it is concerning to see a proposal on the table that has such potential to risk jobs and businesses. Jobs and businesses are also at risk from the Scottish Government deposit return scheme. Every business that I have spoken to wants it to succeed, but the Scottish Government's cooked up a chaotic scheme that is overly complicated, costly and downright confusing. Hospitality venues have been left struggling with storage space, they still have not been told how glass would be collected or even if there is a solution for crushed cans. That is a major problem because the number of collections is going to increase for hospitality venues and indeed the number of bins that they need to put out will increase. Incredibly, when hospitality has tried to raise the concerns, the minister would not see them. The damage that the Scottish Government is creating is of massive importance and adds to an anti-business agenda. It should be proud to be pro-business, proud to support job creation and proud to encourage growth. That is a recipe for success, not just for businesses but for Scotland as a whole. I thank you for choosing this crucial debate and for raising the awareness of the current pressures facing hospitality in Bruins. It has come along a really important time. In my view and hearing a view of others, we know that the hospitality sector is probably under more pressure than any other sector that I can think of. It is a largely wonderful and diverse industry. I say that it is largely wonderful because I always raise the issue of minimum wage and the issue of skills, but largely it is a lot to offer young people, it is a lot to offer our economy and I want to stick up for it. I discovered some of this in virtual meetings that I held during the pandemic to do my bit to engage with the sector. With Brexit, the pandemic and now the acute cost of loving crisis, it is really a truism to highlight that many businesses have gone to the wall in many more will if they do not get the help that they deserve. If we do not act to support this industry in its time of need, the consequences will be dire. We have heard this from many businesses on many other issues, even the energy issue alone. I am sure that the minister has heard thousands of examples of energy bills going up in the region of £500 to £1500, and that is not even the end of the story. The city of Glasgow region that I represent is very dependent on the hospitality sector, which is one of the reasons I have taken a strong interest on it. However, some Government decisions are making matters worse, and they do not need to be this way. The introduction of the early Z zone in Glasgow that the council refuses to delay, despite the huge impact on a already belogged taxi trade—I have just called simply for a year's delay—because without a strong taxi trade and strong public transport, it will hugely impact on Glasgow's hospitality sector. I see this all the time when I go at different times of the day in Glasgow. I can see visibly that the patterns of socialising are changing possibly because they cannot get home, either by public transport or by taxis, because it makes sense to make decisions that are coherent in some way. That is what concerns me, and I want to continue on this theme. The relationship with tourism is also critical to hospitality. If people do not come to their cities to visit, they are going to lose business as a result of that. I had this conversation with the minister before. He knows my concerns about support for Glasgow airport is critical at this time to get people to come in to the city. Unlike other members who are more enrolled in it in particular, do you think that the impact of the deposit return scheme still does not seem to be fully appreciated by the Government on the impact that it is going to have on every single business? One small distillery producer in Linlithgow said that it will cost them around £21,000 to comply. Other suppliers are saying that they will have no choice but to put their prices up. You can see the impact on the consumer. It seems extraordinary that the Government is not listening to this, regardless of where you want to be eventually in five or ten years' time. The cost of loving crisis and the other impact on businesses seems extraordinary to me in terms of even having an economic strategy not to do more to listen to businesses who are really concerned about the scheme. That is not the only issue. There are two issues that I have mentioned already impacting on the business sector and hospitality. As has already been said by Kate Coy, the consultation on the strict alcohol advertising promotion will have an impact if we do not do this properly. I want to be said here that the Scottish Labour believes that action is needed to address growing alcohol-related crisis. We need to do this in a sensible way. The way that you are choosing to do this, at the moment, the evidence seems to be that it will hurt the same businesses, but what we have already been talking about will be hurt by other policies. I am doing my bit for what it is worth. I have to put on records again my thanks to Irene McKee for engaging with the business sector in the small group that I have put together. Some of the things that we want to discuss is how the UK Government and the Scottish Government work together and where it is possible to do things to help this industry. Christine Grahame has talked about the rates issue. I want to talk about whether there is a reduction in VAT in the short-term basis. I know that it is a UK Government responsibility, but we are going to have joined up thinking here. If something does not give in this sector, if you keep piling on the duties and responsibilities and schemes and legislative change and you do not make positive schemes to support this industry, I am afraid it will be a disaster. I am not going to be somebody who is going to be quiet about that. Thank you very much. The King Kong brewery operates brewery and the Winking Owl pub in Avymor and has done so for decades now and is run by Sam Faircliff with 30 employees. In a recent conference call, kindly arranged by Mark Tate of the King Kong business partnership, I discussed with Sam and several small brewers and gin distillers the impacts of the regulations that are being imposed upon them. Let me just tell you what Sam told me about her costs in running the King Kong brewery. Malt, up 50 per cent. 540 quid to 840 quid per ton. CO2, up 100 per cent. At 1.400 per cent. Electricity, 17p per kilowatt hour. Up to 50p. All other ingredients, up 25p. That is in the aftermath of, as members have said, having to cope with Covid and Brexit and the uncertainties caused by the Ukraine war. Businesses now, and Sam confirmed this to me, are facing the most stressful time in their history. Minister, I know that you don't have portfolio responsibility for deposit return, but I do think that the Government is perhaps beginning somewhat belatedly to get the message. The deposit return scheme is the worst I've ever seen in 43 years as a lawyer, a small businessman, a backbench MSP, a minister, and now a humble backpensher serving a somewhat late-in-the-day apprenticeship starting at 65. Seriously, I do not know, Presiding Officer, why the Scottish Government is persisting with this scheme. I can say, and I think that the minister knows, that I warned you, I warned them, I warned them all privately, repeatedly, not just over the past few weeks, but the past two years. This is a disaster, and it will become a catastrophe. Let me in the time that I have available, which is, Presiding Officer, not very much, so I don't want to trespass in your goodwill, perish the thought, but I wanted to make one more point. That is this, and it results from, and I've had, I think, seven or eight meetings with the British Grass Federation. Phil Fenton explained that the DRS is not a recycling scheme, it's a collection scheme. There is an existing recycling scheme with producer responsibility, which is a thing called a remelt target. The point of that is to ensure that glass recycling is used to form cullet, and then it goes to ARDA and O and Illinois in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK, and it's turned back into bottles. Without that remelt target, it would just go to road fill because they can pay more options for the recycling. There is no remelt target in the DRS, and guess what? Guess who British Glass Federation, Phil Fenton, who I, as a humbleback venture, I'll beat with a lot more time my hands these days, guess who they haven't got to meet? Well, they haven't got to meet the minister, and that is, despite my lodging written questions, asking, writing to the minister, she hasn't met the British Glass Federation that know all about it, they're desperate to help, and guess what? If the glass was no remelt target, it goes to road fill, what happens to the carbon savings at the moment? They are, according to Phil, 580 kilograms per tonne. That saving goes down for road fill to 2 kilograms per tonne. Now, do the maths, 580 divided by 2, that's how much worse things could become. Presiding Officer, I've never encountered anything like this in politics. Governments make mistakes, that's okay, but in conclusion, this is not carelessness. This, I'm afraid to say it because I've been a loyalist for nearly 50 years of my party, my cause. This, and this is why I'm speaking out, is willful, willful recklessness. It's as though the captain of the Titanic, when leaving the port of Southampton deliberately, deliberately set sail for the iceberg, it's got to stop, and it's got to stop now. Otherwise, the economic current, carnage, that Kate Forbes described when she visited Sam Faircliff this week, is almost inevitable. Thank you, Mr Ewing, and I now call Brian Whittle. Mr Whittle. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank my colleague Craig Hoy for bringing this debate to the chamber and allowing us to highlight the importance of this sector to communities, the country over, and the significant pressures that have been heaping upon it, as already ably discussed by Craig Hoy in his opening speech. We know that the local pub is an essential social meeting point for so many of our communities, and that breweries both large and niche have such a positive impact on our economy. Yet, with the short wave of Covid still resonating, they now face a further dual pressure. The dual pressures are the much maligned and seriously flawed Scottish version of DRS, along with the uncertainty of the potential blanket introduction of restrictions to alcohol advertising and sponsorship. Now, if there was any doubt about the concerns that industry has on the DRS scheme as it's being chaotically introduced, I wanted to highlight an extract from a letter that I got today from a major brewer that they sent to Circularity Scotland along with their application. I quote, Deputy Presiding Officer. We write to confirm that, although we have signed the agreement, this has been done simply to comply with our obligations under the regulations and to avoid being unable to sell our products in Scotland after the go live date. We have grave reservations about some of the terms of the agreement. We have particular concerns around the advance payments in light of some comments from the three prospective First Minister candidates that the scheme may well be delayed beyond the scheduled go live date. The methodology for calculating the advance payments is not clear and has not been shared with us, so we do not know how our potential exposure can be calculated. We reserve the right to withhold payment of any advance payments in the event of a delay to the scheduled go live date. Given any such delay, it is now reasonably foreseeable and you should be acting now to use reasonable endeavours to keep the amount of advance payments as low as possible. I agree with the point that Christine Grahame raised today, but it was not answered by the minister that the whole advance payments, the requirement to pay an advance payment for a delay in a scheme that is completely outwith the control of the company, means that the company directors cannot sign up to the contract because they have a fiduciary duty not to disciplinish the company of its money gratuitously to give money away. They may as well be handing £1.5 million a month away for free. Directors cannot do that. Why is it that the Scottish Government has not got that basic point of company law that their producer's agreements are ultra-velies and prima facie unlawful? I agree with my colleague, because this is what happens. I fear when you put a minister in charge of a policy that does not understand the basic premise of business. We have pubs who are now only beginning to realise that stores of bottles and cans will become a valuable commodity and must now consider how they will ensure that they have security and that it is adequate to protect those stores. Furthermore, they must ensure that the cans are not crushed and that the bottles are not broken. Following on from the minister's ridiculous performance today during her ministerial statement, which she point blank refused to acknowledge that only 664 drinks producers had signed up to the scheme by the close of the application against the estimated 4,500 producers circularity Scotland itself said would register for DRS, the Scottish Chamber of Commerce issued a statement which said, I quote, that it has been clear to the business world for some time that operating this poorly designed scheme in its current form is impossible and is adding unnecessary cost pressures on the businesses. I quote these interventions, Deputy Business Officer, because it ensures that they are not my words. These are the industry's words, so there can be no suggestion of any political bias. One has to wonder what it is that the Green S&P coalition have against business, especially a business so crucial to the Scottish economy. Deputy Business Officer, members' debates are often a time where we can come together to celebrate Scottish successes. Today we witness a ministerial statement that has such potentially wide-ranging negative impacts on our pubs and brewers industry that members from all sides of the chamber almost pleading with the minister and the Scottish Government to listen to the serious concerns of the industry. Instead, the minister doubled down on this chaotic scheme and remained deaf to MSC colleagues, the industry and even the prospective candidates for the First Minister's position and blamed everyone else for the problems. I once again thank my colleague Craig Hoy for allowing us the time to highlight the plight of pubs and brewers. This industry is central to our community's wellbeing and we must protect this integral part of our economy. You can rest assured, Deputy Business Officer, that we on this side of the chamber will do whatever we can to highlight their concerns. I now call on Minister Ivan McKee to respond to the debate around seven minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and thanks to Craig Hoy for bringing this debate before Parliament and to the many members who have made their contributions to highlight the importance of the hospitality and brewing sectors to Scotland and taking this opportunity to get their points on the record. The sector has been highlighted by many members. It is hugely important to Scotland's economy and is a core part of our communities and our culture, providing employment for upwards of 200,000 people, offering employment opportunities across all of society with, of course, another growing diverse workforce. There are some 130 breweries in Scotland around 10 of whom in the south of Scotland are producing high-quality products for both domestic and, of course, increasingly international export markets. That demonstrates Scotland's business strength and entrepreneurial spirit, and I was delighted to see some fine examples of that on my recent trip on trade and investment through South East Asia. Hospitality is an incredibly resultant sector, despite the many challenges that have presented themselves to the sector in recent years. It is good to see that, despite the challenges, some 590 more businesses opened than closed over the period of 2021 in the accommodation and food sector, but that does not take away from the challenges that we absolutely recognise. The sector faces and the Scottish Government is committed to supporting the sector where we can. The heritage associated with hospitality and brewing sectors helps to put our nation and regions on the map and, of course, promote Scotland's image to our global audience. Of course, my role as minister responsible for trade and investment is hugely, hugely important. In those sectors, it is fair to see international assets to celebrate and develop for a sustainable and successful future. As I indicated, and we all know, the sector has been through some real challenges over the recent years, and members are right to highlight the conditions of an especially tough for hospitality and brewing over those times. With Covid, where, of course, the Scottish Government did everything that we could to support the sector through the most testing of times, all financial support made available to us was passed on in the most equitable and speedy manner possible, though we know that the support given was never going to be and never could fully compensate for the loss of business suffered. Of course, that was the case right across the UK and, indeed internationally, where the sector faced many, many challenges. Challenges now, of course, are different, although no less profound, in my many interactions with businesses in the sector. I absolutely understand the challenges of the cost crisis, the high energy costs, wider inflationary pressures caused by global supply chain issues. The sector, of course, is also grappling with it. Labour shortages often highlight the most significant constraint on the sector's ability to grow and prosper. Partly caused by Covid, but, of course, largely created by the impact of Brexit, which has halted vital labour market access with the ending of free movement in the post-Brexit. Immigration apparatus does not compensate for that. We have a structure that does not serve the sector and needs something. We continue to press the UK Government on alongside industry representation. We are also pressing the UK Government on support with energy costs. On 22 February, a ministerial colleagues John Swinney and Michael Matheson wrote jointly to Grant Sharps, the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, to raise concerns over the lack of engagement in respect of the forthcoming energy bills discount scheme. He can even discuss our concerns ahead of it coming into force at the start of April. We want to ensure that vulnerable businesses and particularly small businesses and those on fixed price contracts are given proper protection and consideration in the new scheme of pressing UK Government on those issues on behalf of Scotland's business communities. I am spoiled for choice. I thank the minister for eloquently listing the challenges that the sector faces. Will he perhaps approach the issue of the challenge of DRS with more candour than his colleague Lornais later? Does he credibly and honestly believe that, if the figure of 84 per cent of companies that have not signed up is accurate, does he not concede that the system simply cannot go ahead? I will come on to talk about my interaction with the business community around DRS and other issues that are facing the sector through the course of my remarks. We must continue to support the sector where we can on NDR—an issue that has been raised by many members today. We have taken a different approach from the UK Government, with the aim of ensuring fairness and optimal use of what are limited resources. In the budget statement in December, Deputy First Minister delivered the number one ask of 18 different business organisations in many businesses in regard to freezing the poundage rate for next year at the same rate as this year. That remains the lowest poundage rate in the United Kingdom for the fifth year in our roll forecast to save business. Rate tax per year is £308 million, compared to an inflation increase, and we are also supporting the package of reliefs worth £744 million, including the small business bonus, which has been highlighted by Christine Grahame and others, which has been reformed and extended and remains the most generous small business relief across the UK. Do you have time? Just a little bit of history—in fact, it was the Conservatives in negotiating a budget many years ago with Derek Brownlee that introduced the small business bonus scheme, which the Scottish Government was happy to accept, gone earlier those days. I want to now talk about the work that I am doing with businesses through my extensive engagement. Members will be very well aware that I talk to business organisations, particularly in the sector on an almost daily basis, through the business regulation task force that was set up at the end of last year. Two meetings already, its third meeting, is coming up with a wide representation from across many business sectors, including extensive representation from the hospitality, leisure and tourism sector. The focus of that task force is to urgently look at the regulations that are coming down the track, not to unpick regulations on its own. There is plenty of scope to do that in other forums and ministerial engagement with the relevant ministers. However, to look at the cumulative impact of those regulations, to look at the timing, to look at the process, to make sure that the business regulation impact assessment process has teeth and is taken account of when the Government looks at those regulations. It is very important that that overall perspective is taken and businesses have the opportunity to raise those concerns with the minister responsible for business. I am delighted that that group is making good progress on those issues. I am grateful to the minister for giving way. He speaks about significant engagement that he has with the business community. Can he tell us how many producers in Scotland could have signed up for the DRS scheme by today? We know that 664 have. Out of a total hot, what is that number, given his experience and his interactions with all those businesses? I have not spoken to every single business that is involved in that. I do not have that number to hand, but I know that the member is very keen to get that number. I know that some numbers are quoted earlier on, and I am sure that he continues to ask the relevant minister. I am sure that he will get the appropriate answer. I want to talk also about, as was mentioned by Christine Grahame, our commitment to the implementation of the Tide pubs act as soon as possible. Unfortunately, when a position is there where it is subject to a judicial review, our commitment to taking that work forward and to giving rights to tenants remains in place. Of course, there is other work happening to support the sector through the reform of permitted development rights to allow premises to make better use of space and to improve their business models and increase revenue, which is something that we are all keen to see. We are very keen to take forward all that work. In conclusion, we are very focused on a strong and successful and vibrant hospitality and brewing sector. In Scotland, a key part of our national strategy for economic transformation was about providing support for entrepreneurial businesses, to make businesses more productive across all the regions of Scotland and to deliver the skills that are necessary to support those business growth. We want to see that hospitality space has been well-used and responsibly with viable businesses and contributing to local economies and communities. Of course, we want to see fair work at the heart of the sector, something that I press very strongly with businesses in the sector and something that I raised with my meeting just this week with trade unions representing members in the sector, as something that Paul McNeill has rightly raised in the debate this afternoon. It is important to recognise the work that we are taking forward. The leadership group for tourism and hospitality, which I co-chair with Mark Rathlaw of the Scottish Tourism Alliance, and trade union representation on it, where we have the opportunity to give strategic oversight to the medium and long-term challenges facing the sector. Paul McNeill is also right to identify the importance of tourism. Those international links, which you can rest assured that we are working hard to restore and increase the number of air links into Scotland to ensure that tourists come in ever-increasing numbers to our shores. In conclusion, we have a commitment on my part to continue to engage with the sector, to listen to what the sector has to say, on regulation and other challenges facing it, and as a government, a pro-business government, to take the steps that we need to take forward. I will be meeting with trade bodies in the sector on 15 March in Parliament. We will be planning to attend the Scottish Parliamentary hospitality group, which will be shared by Paul McNeill later in March. I look forward to both. Once again, I thank Craig Hoy for bringing this debate forward to Parliament this evening. Thank you Minister. That concludes the debate. I close this meeting.