 Welcome to a new rational comedy, or maybe it's rational politics or it could even be German alchemy. We haven't decided yet. I have got one very, very special guest with me today. Tako, welcome to the table. Tako? Really? Oh, that's what I was told. It's Pako, Michael. It's Nigel. Pako? Right. Shall we do this all over again? No, let's carry on. Tell me a little bit about your background. It actually has happened to me before that people thought I was called Tako, which is like the weirdest, like, you know, whose mum loves Mexican food so much, that's what I'll name my child. I've known a number of Germans, so I think I can come up with some names. Well, you know, I do have names. I'm sure you do. Pako is not my real name. I lived in Spain for eight years. That's where my neighbour Amparo in Valencia just got really tired of my stupid German name, Erhard. Because, you know, I don't know if you've been to Spain, but Spanish people and their letter H are not friends. Are not friendly at all. So it was like... So eventually she's like, you know, fuck your stupid name. You're called Pako now. Which is like my real name is actually Frank Erhard Hübner. It doesn't get more crowd than that. Now weirdly, Pako is short for Francisco in Spanish, so my Frank Erhard Hübner is like, yeah, that's how that actually makes sense. Okay. You were born in Germany. Whereabouts in Germany? I was born in Munich, actually. So technically I'm Bavarian. Bavarian, yes. When I go there now, I feel like I'm abroad. They're very different. They're very weird Bavarians. Like, yeah, by the way, I don't know if you know this, but 89% of Germans laugh at Lederhosen, the rest are Bavarians. Yes. It's not a German thing. I had actually heard that before. Funny, you should mention that. Actually, I used to love visiting Munich because the food is so special. Yeah, it really is. I don't quite know how we got onto food this early in our conversation. Anyway, so you're background, born and raised in Germany. Yeah. But then you started to do a lot of world travel, didn't you? Well, yeah, firstly, you know, when people ask me where I'm from, it's kind of hard to say because, you know, due to my dad's job, we moved every two or three years. So I grew up like in eight or nine different regions of Germany. And then when I was 17, I actually lived in America for a year in North Carolina and I loved it. And I felt like this is the country I should have been born in. I just really do love America. And now I'm back to my own true love and you've let yourselves go a little bit. But yeah, so I was there. Then later I lived in Italy for a while and eventually I just hitchhiked out of Germany completely. I wanted to be Jack Kerouac at the time. And so I just, yeah, left Germany. Thumb out and then I traveled back to Italy again and then eventually to Spain where I then ended up living for eight years. Then I went to your home country for a couple of years. So I went to London, England and started comedy there. And then I did that all over the world like in Australia and Canada and New Zealand and here. And so it's all a weird mix in a way. It's funny because when we were talking before we started recording you said your sister lived in Woking. She does. Oh my goodness. By her own choice. Will you please pass on my full condolences to her next time you talk to her? Woking? Yeah, I don't think I have phones yet. So I'll try to talk to her. That's going to make a few of my Brit friends laugh. So that's okay. So how many countries have you actually lived in? Oh, let me see. So Germany, Italy, Spain, England, America. Like if you care like Australia for years I toured there like three or four months a year. Like so I will have spent about two years straight in Australia kind of stuff. Have I lived there? I never paid taxes there but then I don't pay taxes anyway. Just kidding. And Canada. I've also toured in Canada a lot. So between five and seven. Yeah, actually very similar to myself. I started off in Norway, went from Norway down to Holland, went from Holland over to France, went from France back to Norway, Norway to England, England to Belgium, Belgium to Germany and then over here. Nice. That's awesome. But I love travelers. I think traveling is so important. I think actually every person, like if I had a choice or can I say then every person in the world would be forced to live in a different country for a year. Because suddenly you see like other people, they're not stupid or evil or whatever. You're like, oh what they do totally makes sense in the context and you see that, you know, they're lovely, like 99% lovely people everywhere. And yeah, so like, I know that living elsewhere has given me a lot and a lot of also feeling for things that are different and that don't understand yet. And I think lots of people normally have a lot of resistance against things that are different and they call them, you know, stupid and wrong or whatever. So it's how you learn. I was lucky when I was working in Belgium, I traveled all over the world non-stop, three years, tired me out, but I wasn't married, didn't matter. One thing I discovered, and I think you discovered exactly the same thing, when you get down to it, everybody, everybody in this world has the same problems, has the same worries. Yeah, they're the same wants, the same needs, the same everything. So when you really get down to it, we're just one world. I wish a lot of damn people would understand that. Well, yeah, that's the thing, you know, that people are the same everywhere, 80% idiots. But no, but yeah, absolutely right. That is, and still, there's cultural difference. Yes. But that's fascinating. It's so cool, like, you know, it's cool and weird how Americans are a certain way because of how the country was formed, how, you know, centuries of history have influenced them. We Germans still are strongly influenced in character by, say, the Thirty Years' War from 1618 till 1648. Right. Because, you know, about 30, you know, a third of the population died in, you know, and it was like 30 years of just slaughter and of chaos and of unpredictability. So our sense of order and wanting everything to be predictable and planned and all that, that goes back to a long history of not having that, not never having order, not always having to make order in order to survive. Right. And I find that fascinating and I think, you know, our differences should be interesting to us and we should all know that in many things we're the same and where we're different, be curious about it. Absolutely. Every person, you know, like, let's send everybody abroad for a year. If you get sent to Uzbekistan, bad luck, but, you know, like somebody has to do it. Everywhere. Lovely people. It's just their politics, isn't it? That's right. I mean, everywhere I visited, no matter whether it was a left-leaning or a right-leaning country, the people were the people. Yeah. They really were. And if you took the time, one thing I hate, I hated, the Brits, obviously, you know, were everywhere. We really are. We're like a bad cold. We spread everywhere. Yeah. And then you're on the place. Yes. Well, that's the thing that really upset me. You know, like, well, why don't you join the British Club? Why the hell? I'm living in Belgium. Why do I want to join the Brits Club? I'm here in Belgium. I'm here to enjoy Belgium. I'm here to, you know, meet the locals. Yeah. And what happens is far too many people, they move to a country and they form this little clique and they never get to discover the country, but they expect the country to change for them. Yeah. And it is so wrong. Well, yeah. It is possible to travel wrong in a way. It is. It is. Yeah. Also, I mean, to a degree here, like the German clubs that I, I do a show, Five Step Guide to Being German, just explaining why, like what I just, you know, something. Yes. Why we are the way we are with comedy. And so the German clubs all over, you know, America that I performed for, and they're also like, it's an interesting mix of cling to something that doesn't exist anymore, but also to a degree, I understand that, you know, the things you grew up with that you're nostalgic for. I think if you find a good mix between fitting in and becoming part of that other culture, then it's okay. If you bring something to the table that, you know, isn't from there and, you know, that you're still in love with the things from your childhood. Absolutely. But I have seen that too, that there are people who just, you know, normally also feel superior to the country around them. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, never really see anything. That's right. They don't really see anything. I think we better get back to why you're really here. But this has been fascinating. Because I'm German. I wanted to be a comedian. Absolutely. Do you think I could stay there? That's unusual to start with. No. Let's talk about your comedy and the way that it's different depending on where you're performing. Because you performed all over the world, haven't you? Yeah. Near enough. Yeah, I have pretty much, you know, like, you know, Malaysia and Singapore and even exotic places like Austria. And so my comedy is parallel. It's, I'd say, a mix of, you know, I go back, of course, to my history of travel and just what we talked about now, I talk about in a funny way. Oh, okay. And I talk about things that don't understand or whatever. But largely, so it is something I'm fascinated by. And I'm fascinated by how we can all learn from each other. Right. The rest of the world can learn a lot from the American spirit about, you know, that can-do attitude. But American can also learn a lot from, you know, from us in Europe, for example. Correct. And I think this nationalist mindset that says, like, we're the greatest and everybody else sucks, that holds you back because that way, you're not going to learn anything. So I think what I do is it's largely like, say, political for lack of a better word or it's like, I like mischief. I like going where it hurts. I like talking about shit that matters. Like, you know, let's talk about just, you know, racism and nationalism and all that shit that goes on. Let's get it out on the table. Yeah. And also, sometimes, you know, that's what I also appreciate in comedians when, you know, they're not also, you know, only pointing the finger, like, oh, that's racist. Yeah, we all know that exists, but let's be a little bit honest that, oh, shit, I had a thought just now. That was so sexist. What the fuck is happening? Mm-hmm. Just to also acknowledge that we're all brought up in this world and in this system and how we all should be working towards being better people, but I don't like comedy or anything that's self-righteous. Right. It's a great job on stage to be the idiot. So I like to talk about all these things that some people don't want to talk about, but in a way that acknowledges that I don't necessarily do better all the time. Right. So it's hard to explain. Maybe we should just, you know, roll a clip at some point of what I actually do on stage. Yeah. But this is all very theoretical, I guess. No, that's okay. Now, obviously, you know, different countries have different audiences. Oh. What can be funny here is not funny there. We were talking about Australia and New Zealand, for instance. Yeah. And we threw in Canada at the same time. Not many people do throw in Canada, but we thought we would. Talk about Australia a little bit and some of the things you went through. Well, I think audiences are different again because cultures are different. And I've always felt, you know, and I've also seen British comedians, which I find partly, like, and partly big TV comedians in Britain who went to Australia expecting Australians to understand their references. Right. Like, you know, we all know how brommies are. We don't even know what brommies are. People from Birmingham, like, you know, but they just go there and expect, you know, another country to, you know, just understand. So because I'm always fascinated and curious, I try to adapt and, you know, find out stuff about the other country. You know, I like Australian audiences, we talked about this because especially in comparison to Canadian audiences where I've performed a lot. Now, I love Canada and I've been there a lot, but there are audiences, you know, Canadians, like, you know, too polite. Oh, that joke wasn't very nice. Yeah, but it was funny. Fuck off. That's true. You know, and I was, you know, Australians, they're up for anything. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If it's funny, like, then any topic goes and that's me. You know, I always compare it to, like, in Australia, audiences are like big dogs. Big dogs don't want to play like this. They want to fucking play, right? Yeah, exactly. And, you know, Canadian audiences are like, did you find that funny? Was that okay? Like, yes, so... I'm exaggerating. God bless the Canadians. But, yeah, and like, one thing that's also fascinating, New Zealand, a friend of mine, a great British comedian and impressionist, Anil Desai, he went to, I think it was New Zealand, a comedy festival, and he was doing his show, and this is like, this is kind of embodies, you know, New Zealand audiences who are a little bit like the Canadians of Down Under. Yeah. In a way. Like, I hope that doesn't offend any Kiwis because I want to go there again. So, here's what happened. My, you know, Anil, apparently, he tells me just performed on stage to almost silence. You know, he did the stuff that he knows works and people were just sitting there. And especially in a couple of front rows, it was just like these big, huge, rugby kind of dudes. Huge men who just did not move a muscle, just stared at him. They thought, oh my God, I'm fucked. Like, you know, I don't know why they're hating me. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. Yeah. So it's terrible. Like, we all have this. Occasionally there's a show that just, just off. And he said, like, this is bad. I don't want to confront them like, I'm going to sneak out the back door. And he snuck out the back door, and there they were. Just standing there, just waiting for it. His life flashing through his mind. Pretty much. Yes. And so, he said, hey, guys. And he said, hey, mate, just want to let you know we really enjoyed the show. He said, what the, what? Then why, then why didn't you, why didn't you laugh? Didn't want to disturb you. So it is just, because they're kind of like also so polite that they go like, no, you're doing your thing. We don't want to distract you too much. And even when they're like this, they would just like, no, don't be overboarded here. It's like, just, yeah. I found that amazing. For a comedian, that must be so hard because you need that feedback. Yeah. Like the energy. The energy. It's a two-way street of energy. And it's actually, you know, in gigs like that when the, and sometimes I had this in Adelaide in Australia when I also performed, and this was like, you know, lots of lights in my face, like even more than usual. So I didn't really see the audience. And again, it was pretty quiet. And I thought, my God, like, I've been doing this show, like, you know, on this tour, like 40, 50 times now. Like, I know this stuff works. And eventually I just cover my eyes to actually see them. And some of them are pissing themselves laughing just quietly. Just quietly. But there's an entire audience who doesn't seem to want to make sounds. You're like, this is fucking mind-blowing. What are people doing? You're not kidding. Turn the lights out. Yeah. It just, yeah, I don't know. It just happens sometimes. Oh, that's amazing. And also sometimes it also happens that an audience just doesn't like you. It can happen. And that can happen. Yeah, it can happen. The first two minutes are the key. If you can get them in the first two minutes, you've got them for an hour and a half. Pretty much. I think, yeah, I think you're also, yeah, you're right. But also... You know what I'm saying. Yeah, and it's a little bit of an unwritten contract. I think in the first two minutes, you do make them laugh, but I like to be, you know, I like to go where it hurts. I like to, you know, just provoke them a bit. So if I didn't do that for 20 minutes and then suddenly I start talking about like horrific things, then they go like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on a minute. That's not in the contract, as it were. So, yeah, you're right. The first, when you start, give them an impression of just, you know, what to expect. Yes. And get them on board with that. And then normally they relax into, okay, this is what's happening apparently. Right, right. I told the story before, but when we were doing witness for the prosecution up at the Longmont Theatre Company, our set designers had built this set which absolutely equalled the High Court in London, the old Bailey. It was a magnificent set. And the curtains, of course, were closed. In the show there were two scenes. The first scene takes place in the solicitor's office, and then the second scene, which is an hour and a half long, took place in the courtroom. Opening night, we had never discussed this. I'm playing the judge, powdered wig, the works. The curtains opened, and the audience burst into applause and cheering. And I'm sitting there going, oh, shit, what have I done? Oh, wait a minute. They're part of the, they are, they are in court. So I just started hammering. Oh, yeah. Silence in court. I'll have you all evicted. And, of course, that just got them going even more. Yeah. It was perfect. To finish off, now you are mixing now a lot of political ideas in with your comedy. Yeah. Okay. Talk a little bit about that, because that's a very difficult thing to do. Well, mixing in political ideas, I wouldn't go with that, but I think nowadays we all know that, you know, America is at an interesting point. And I think it's about high time that you have a German here who, you know, because we've done some product testing for you guys. Fascism, one star. Wouldn't recommend. Wouldn't recommend it. So, in a German perspective, might be valuable these days. But, yeah, so, I mean, I'm interested in politics, but ultimately, how do we make our lives better? How can we stop being assholes to each other? Basically. So, on the one hand, like, well, I'm definitely, you know, like, I think Trump is the very wrong direction. And I'm, you know, like, it's weird, because I feel like, on the right now, you have some actually, actively evil people who actually, in meetings behind the scenes, who actually want to dismantle democracy. Right. Like, so you have some actually evil on the right. On the left, we're not so much evil, evil, but we're fucking annoying. Like, you just can't, like, like, people are like, oh, yeah, but you can't say that exactly like this. That was the term we used last week. This week it's offensive. And there's just so, so much that we do. We're crap at marketing. Like, just give people a chance. People who, like, if you want to draw them into our side, don't be annoying. Don't, don't, don't shout at them for getting it slightly wrong right away. So, I'm definitely on that side, but I also feel we all have to chill the fuck out a little bit. Yeah. We all have a little bit of sense of humor about ourselves without being assholes to people, but I have several, like, trans-comedian friends who have a great sense of humor about themselves who does, who don't, and don't want to be saved some, but some, you know, liberal, you know, arts students are like, dude, I can't stand up for myself. Right. And so, I think just love and respect for each other. To me, maybe I'm too Australian-influenced, but goes together with having a laugh about each other. You know, joking about each other. Right. But also, like, if you say, like, I don't want to hurt people, like, and I'll apologize if I go like, oh, shit, that was actually something, because, you know, you have to control whether you're an asshole or not. But a little bit of banter back and forth I think would make everybody feel a little bit better. I agree. Would make the conversation less awkward. Yes. And let's all admit our ignorance a little bit and let's try to overcome it. Right. And let's have a bit of a laugh when we do that. One of the things us Brits are always being good at is making fun of ourselves. Yeah. We have absolutely no problem. I mean, Monty Python is the typical example of us making fun of ourselves. Yeah. Something the Americans do incredibly badly. Oh, yeah? Americans don't like making fun of themselves. Well, I don't know what it is for them. Well, I'll help you. All right, awesome. Let's do it. Anyway, Paco, thank you so much for coming into the studio. It's been fun. It's been an absolute pleasure sitting down and talking to you like this. And I've got a funny feeling we could probably talk for another half an hour, hour without a problem. Yeah. Which means you're going to have to come back. Absolutely. Absolutely. Look forward to it. Thank you, my friend. Thanks a lot, Micah. Oh, you can call me Michael. All right, I'm Tackle. Nice to meet you. Oh, OK. Everybody, thanks so much for tuning into the show. Now, I've been told off by our producer, because I was saying subscribe here when I should have been saying subscribe there. So using this finger, subscribe there, please. There. There, right there. Thank you very much. OK, over and out. See you next time. Goodbye.