 We have next to him is Hon. Joshua Mbithi, Masinga Constituensi. Thank you so much. And of course right from him, it's Alex Mayore, Youth Coordinator 3rd Way Alliance Party Nairobi County. Thank you for hosting me, it's a pleasure to be here. Nice to have you people and it's great. I want us to begin with the issue of corruption in the country. In the last 2 years Kenya has lost over 30 billion shillings to corruption deals in Kenya. Just to mention but just a few, the national series and produce boat reported to have lost 1 billion 900 million shillings. Kenya pipeline company lost 2 billion shillings rather. Kenya power 470 million shillings. These are just like a tip in the ocean, tip of what in the ocean. They're still more that we can call on a roll. What do you think about the issue of corruption? Are we really able to fight corruption, Daniel? Well, thanks again. This is my honest opinion about it. You really see that Jubilee government is the first time of Jubilee. You realise that there was push and pull. But then the Code collision by that time would pop up figures, pop up scandals. On the other side, the government would sit at the fence and say, it is not us who have done this. But right now, after the second time and the subsequent handshake, you could see there is a sustained patch towards fighting the draft and pushing people to follow up in accountability. That is my honest opinion that opposed to when the first time when the president threw his hand on the finger and said, what do you want me to do? This time round he has been very upfront in terms of trying to deal with matters of corruption. And I begin by saying that there is a political goodwill as we stand right now to sustain the fight apart. Now, secondly, like I said before, you see the moment we do not have this word corruption, every platform I see in all our 43 ethnic tribes, there is how you define a thief. And there is a punishment for a thief. But in our tribes there is no word corruption. So that means it's just something there that, it's something there. It is abuse of office corruption, economy crime corruption, nepotism corruption. So it becomes difficult actually to define it in the pin of court on how the punishment are sustained. When you mention that, I'm prompted to say this, yes, or rather to ask this. When we talk about corruption, it's a general term that means graft and measurement of funds. We talk about nepotism and all these words. Group, you see, because that is what the case, you see when somebody is taken to court, we know they will convict you, but then they will quote a section of economic crime and something or fraudulent deals or something. But for a thief, you exactly say this is a thief and the sentence for a thief is this one. So you actually see that there is Allah kuna in how they deal with it. As a country historically, it's been difficult. But now coming back that when we accepted the new constitution, there is the way we also see that there is devolution of corruption in it. Our governors right now that you see, Khyambu governor is now allegedly, I'm saying allegedly because it's still a case in court. Migori, Siaya, everywhere. So there is a sense in which we devolve corruption and then the government is struggling to fight it at a national level and also to follow it at the county. But I believe that the president right now as he looks and his demeanor is actually serious in trying to fight the party. The problem is just to bring you on board. Do you think the strategies that have been laid ahead of us to fight corruption are really effective? To me, I think they are effective because the president has stood up to be counted. What he has done is that there was no good will be fought because the opposition could run and say you are against us. You have caught one of our own. You are against this tribe. You are against this party. You are against the opposition. And everybody once one of the corrupted people was taken to court. You could see the whole community rallying behind him. Say you are our own person. But now because there is anisek and there is good will in politics then we are going to win this war against corruption. There is no need of going to something with a negative attitude because you need to be positive all the time. So to me there is good will to fight corruption and we are going to win this war because there is good will. When you mention that I'm probably going to bring in Alex because that wellans party is proposing something in your bill, the Punguzamizigu bill. You are proposing a life sentence if someone is convicted. Yes, we are proposing that. We feel that corruption has been a cancer in this country and for each to be dealt with we need to take radical measures to deal with the vice. As it is we are seeing DCI and DPP doing their work, they are very active. We also feel as a party there is a political good will so that's why we are offering opinions so that we can work with the government into achieving this end in corruption. Do you think in the life sentence it will solve anything? It will definitely reduce corruption because we need to make the benefits of corruption and the consequences of corruption more dangerous than the benefits of corruption. It will definitely work. We have seen it work in other countries. You seem to be having a different opinion. I also have a different opinion by ridiculous proposals where it had realized. What do you call it? Very ridiculous. You seem limited. We have a sense of natural law that somebody is innocent till proven guilty and there is a due process of the law that to the end you must be found to have committed a crime so that you be sentenced. But you see as a country we cannot have radical proposal to commit people to life sentence unless it is a really serious crime and we are considering to have corruption of which I agree to some extent becoming a very serious crime against the people of Kenya. But then I think for us to have a proposal life sentence and all these, what background are we coming from and understand that this will effectively work. We know very well our political nature that you see the mechanizations put somebody to have a very serious allegation can sometimes be fathered by individuals. How many times have people been mentioned like Honiibo was saying that you can sit on the fence and mention the other guy sitting there and try to mechanize so that it could be seen as one who is seriously corrupt. But then if they would have, I would have agree with them if they could be a point that would be brought up. If you are being really to the end of it be found to have been just and there is a glaring evidence pointing towards that then you are convicted of that crime but not a was. I think what they stated probably just to come back to you what they have given a stipulated time of 30 days from day one the day you have written a statement down all the way to the 30th day is the when the jury should give the verdict. But then you see that is why you asked me before if our judiciary right now is crying for lack of resources to expedite these cases and one thing I agree with the fact that they should be a time limit for a case to be determined that I agree because then our history is that you were taken to courts you stolen enough and before your case ends you already a governor you see or you already a leader yes so within the powers that you hold you find very difficult for a jury to take through your case because you already a leader you understand and you already have preview to some resources to fight for your cases so on the time limit I agree but on the life senses I think it ought to be converse so that we really have to arrive in the conclusion. Let me bring it in I have a simple question for you being a leader and you taken to the court do you think that affects the verdict? It doesn't affect the verdict if all the if all the loose hands are tied investigations are done properly then if you are convicted you are convicted it doesn't mean you are it doesn't separate a leader from the normal person because a person is a person leadership does not qualify you to be corrupt to do the wrong things ok so to me it doesn't change the only thing that I am I am not for the third way alliance that is too ambitious that is too ambitious proposal that people be convicted for life for corruption while others have murdered other people and they are still not in life sentence so to me that is is not here or there it's just a proposal which I think to me it cannot see the light of the day what's your take on that? just before continuing we have been ideal but don't realistic to the politics of this country we have had people who have been had cases court cases serious cases before but these people before their cases were determined they either found their way as members of county assembly members of parliament or to some extent senators of governor and you realize and agree with what you say that you see the privilege you have when you are a leader and the resources you have you could one way or the other interfere with your cases and this is the reality about the Kenan politics before you respond I know you have a response for it you are prompting me to say something that the court gave us a verdict for 100% ass for treasury and the court said he should not step into the treasury unless he is accompanied by detectives so how can he interfere and even run off he is not even supposed to link the country you saw the determination and I also like to add to what you say lady justice mobigo you also had a ruling and say that once you are you have a court case to answer you should not go to your offices because then it will be considered a crime scene you understand and therefore the deputies should take over so what I am saying and by the way our teachers got a future and I said this in the morning before you know the future that he has is that he will run for a governor and get it on a silver platter because the history of this country if we had people who were suspected of bringing a national service down and they are governors they are in government and they are all this kind of issues what prevents him in other times but then what I am saying is the fact that you see we and I support we are actually seeing a government that right now is so firm about and sustains you always sustaining the fight against corruption and I think when you go to other direction one of the things I would also like to give the government opinion is not only should they step aside but people should be taken to prison and the property should be forfeited and brought back to the country that is it before we go to the story of the Kambu governor Tito's arrest yesterday let me ask you something as that we alliance party what are your ways or other procedures that you have set ahead for someone's arrest determination of the case and the verdict together I said the alliance what we are saying is first let me respond to Daniel we were proposing that idea of jailing these people for life sentence after they have been confirmed by the court to be corrupt not when they are allegations so after this year has done all their work and presented the case in the court and said this person is corrupt we say now we can jail this person you see it works like he has said CSO teach has a bright future which I agree he might run and he might win but once we have these people jail it prevents that it prevents that opportunity for them and then another thing we want to add is the asset and recovery authority they need to work better so that they can freeze their resources these people work corrupt so that they are not able to influence the cases even if they are out of our like what I teach right now yes is the clip that you are seeing on the screens it's Kambu governor Fenway Tito they actually yesterday submitted themselves to the ethics and anti-corruption commission they actually were arrested yesterday by the ethics and anti-corruption commission the two presented themselves at the commission integrity center headquarters yesterday after two days on their run where Tito's lawyer Oliver Kipchumba say they will remain in the hands of the detectives until they are presented to court today so we are still following on this story they will be arranged in court this morning more are still actually being sought after we have several who have been arrested these has become now the norm people being arrested but Kenyans allegedly saying that there are no verdicts given what should we take? well you see again we are as a panel we are agreeing that you see our history is the fact that somebody is taken to you know court and receives anti-corruption orders obeying and walks out and you see we are as a nation of contradiction a chicken thief is merely you know sentenced immediately you know that one doesn't take anything immediately nana ambiya uta kukfunzuka or ambiya you will be as an example serve as an example but a thief who's brought almost somebody suspected of billions and billions that is enough to bring the whole economy down you know he is just given and expatriate orders next moment is out of court mentions and the court just disappears so for me that is why I begin to say the point Kenyans are very clever citizens as we speak because then they know the order of how somebody would face justice arrest, take to court hear the case, determine immediately so that this person whether innocent or not but then the most interesting bid is you see for a governor it is important for you to honor the office, give dignity to the office that you serve what do you do you're requested that once you allegedly mention the court in case the most honorable thing to do is just to step aside you step aside so that investigation proceed if you are found innocent I mean it's important you can resume your office with dignity that you serve other than sticking in the office and say I would rather die than resign by the end of the day the case is on you, you found and then it proceeds and proceeds but then it goes back to what we discussed always and always the chapter on integrity and ethics the article at conserve on the national values and the practice of good governance in this country if you put that out of the window then electorates are beginning to wonder how then will we settle for leaders like this the problem is the electorates of this country how would you expect to receive bribes during campaign but then hope that that person will be a good candidate because Meshmi he is the best to answer this question he has mentioned something about bribing people so as begin the positions do you think that's quite an issue that is bringing all the way to the billions of money that we've lost as a country you see you have to you have to look for a way of winning nobody goes to politics being negative you have to be positive that you are going to get the seat that you are looking for so people will try to please the electorates the voters must be pleased so that they can be able to vote for you so but we are not saying that once you have been voted you go there and start practice corruption no that is not the way the corrupt people are always corrupt if you have never practiced corruption if you are faithful in small things the Bible says you will be faithful in big things if you are a good person when you are a manager of a deep in your village or cattle deep in your village and then you are now given as a member of parliament you will be able to take care of the CDF you will not be able to steal when you are elevated to be a governor and the billions are at your disposal you will still be faithful but you see people people are used to capitalizing on the loose ends the systems in the counties the first time we are very loose there are no systems so people could steal any hourly the second time is a bit better now but still people are still finding a way of getting some loot so what we are saying is that the government should tighten all those loose ends so there is nothing to touch as a governor nothing for you because you are not the AII order there is your PSS your ministers what have you so money should not come near the governor