 definitely be glad to sample your feedback to us detail and but this conversation right here is about to be a riveting one because it's about to be about matters business SMEs and everything entrepreneurship that you'd like but before we get into it and even the topic of discussion as well let me just highlight to you this is from the International Trade Council that talks about Kenyan companies have made significant rights in a global expansion establishing themselves in various industries and regions and examples in being in a for global expansion telemetrometer running too fast businesses compete as well as to succeed in the global market with a focus on innovation quality sustainability that this has also helped Kenyan companies as well established themselves as leaders in various industries worldwide the success of this company shows that Kenyan businesses have the potential to become major players in the global economy driving growth and innovation relevant to the conversation you're about to delve into right now scaling up of African businesses for global impact and maybe what are the potential factors that actually can stay ahead and catalyze this conversation to us that space and we have an expert with us live in studio will actually paint for us a wider panoramic view of what pertains to that exactly he is Mark Lane Mongolo he is a finance and business consultant and many other things he does is gonna tell us in just a bit but Karibusana Mr. do you prefer Mark Lane or Mr. Mongolo? Mark Lane is a lot of people know you as Mark Lane yeah alright so briefly maybe if you can tell us just a short journey shortly how you got into that space and how far has it been as of now alright so thank you so first thank you so much for having me appreciate this yes so I I have I'm a business I'm a finance consultant finance expert I graduated from Strathmore a while back in and and and after that I delved into the corporate space I've worked in finance wing and also managerial spaces for coming close to 10 years then I I felt the need to delve into the consultancy space because I saw there was a gap there was a serious gap in the market where organizations were being run established run but then the though there was always a stagnating factor that would limit them from growing and reaching out to the the strategies that there and the goals and the plans that have set and now with my experience and everything I had a chance to I was privileged to see the actual integrities that really affect in terms of how we do business in Kenya and which is why I decided to to go out of that space out of that comfortable space it was really good but I had to make the sacrifice and get now into a solo journey where now I incorporated a company called lean business consulting right I brought together experts who are like like minded and also have experience in different fields and and different segments which which now very crucial to how we do business in around here and yeah and that's that's what we do so our mission is to enhance sustainable growth in of businesses in Africa and and and we've we've put together with curated services that that are pertinent and are very key to enhance that sustainable growth for businesses yeah so we have we've we've looked at different arms of the business starting from strategy these are things which these are corporate governance practices which are not being utilized by SMEs and startups as they start so and in as much as there are other things such as staffing and all that but they are very very key ground levels that you need to establish and foundations that you need to establish to be able to enhance that growth so we we take them through some of these things like establishing a strategy how do we do finance advisory how do you make sure that you utilize the data financial data in your organization to help you to project the future to help you to to to you know to advise and help the management to know where they are at if they need to drop a certain product that is not doing well if they need to expand to a different market which one then so they so the data that you have internally is able to help you to make such decisions so we do finance advisory and for the most part you find that businesses do handle finance in a very historical manner in a but wanna come in and just help them out also just to help them to to be informed of the future yes yeah so we also do tax advisory which is you know tax is very key and there's many ways we need to stay compliant in as much as we also need to take advantage of the different avenues that are presented right in touch so that we can we can okay okay right before we talk about tax waivers maybe now let's go back to the conversation about entrepreneurship and then let's delve into maybe startups and SMEs but the topic is scaling so for the purposes of understanding for our dear viewers watching maybe if you can just define them a little bit and paint for them a picture what does it mean for a business to scare I understand the end result is turnover literally income for any person who's learning with a pen and paper right now if you can explain to them what is scaling exactly for business yeah so scaling for a business I'd look at it in different ways so it's scaling in terms of turnover rather revenue scaling in terms of revenue if you're right now you're making a million a year then scaling would mean maybe by next year you're making 10 million so from 1 million to 10 million that is scaling in terms of revenue there is scaling in terms of market reach so for instance you're running a retail shop retail business and you're only in Nairobi if you get to a point where you're operating in Nairobi in Kisumu, Mombasa in in in Moyale and all those other spaces then we said that you've scaled in terms of yeah expansion as well yeah but also still maintaining your profit margins yeah yes that is very key there is scaling in terms of the number of services or products that you're offering in terms of your offering now yeah so yeah if you're only offering one product say only you're selling handbags and then you you've gotten to a point where now customers are asking for asking for seats or asking for something else so you can also introduce that you also scale in terms of your service offering or product expansion so yeah so yeah so scaling is basically growth right so you want to put it in terms of expansion or it's growth so yeah so that's what scaling is about yeah and and yeah definitely I know you've gotten that part but also I believe in a business class if somebody was to be in an entrepreneurship class and definitely this is like a lecture by the way so if you're a business student who tune in and come close to your TV if you were to maybe contrast between our profit and scaling maybe if you were just if you were to maybe like give just like two differences between profit and scaling but because they understand they can be confusing and they could be rather similar in some certain way yeah yeah that's a very that's a very good question yeah so scaling we've defined is growth right profit on the other hand is the the money the residual money so to speak that you're left with as a business owner after doing everything that pertains your business yeah so let's say for instance you are selling the seats and you've sold the seats at a hundred thousand shillings yeah and for you to sell the seats you had to buy the fabric you had to do in car transportation cost you had to get fundies to come and you know make the actual seat and that has costed you let's say 80,000 shillings right right so what then ends up you end up with that 20,000 shillings isn't it that difference which is now the profit that's now what we call the profit so and and that's that's a very important question because for the most part so there's profit and loss and sometimes you can make a profit sometimes you can make a loss so in as much as you you're selling that seat for 100,000 sometimes you find yourself that if you put together the labor that you've paid to the fundies you look at the if you look at the transport costs if you look at the fabrics that you've had to bought to buy and everything you maybe have spent about 120,000 right so you end up what losing you have you end up losing or incurring a loss of 20,000 shillings yes yeah so and so profit is a very important element of it and how you you you attain to a state where you're getting you earning profits it's also very important and it it's it's not what we're talking about here that it's it's all about how you're doing business how you manage the nature of your operations yeah also the culture the culture of the business setting yeah you'd find maybe some some for you to do that sale go back to that example where you make that sale of 100,000 maybe you had to get a loan of maybe 50,000 shillings yeah or let's say 80,000 shillings which was the actual cost of it but then you had you are falling back on rent and you had to use that money to pay your own personal expenses which is a bad idea which is a very bad idea it's a very bad way of doing business so those are some of the challenges that are in doing business and your so you end up skyrocketing your expenses and when you skyrocket your expenses you end up going into losses now the other thing is it's budgeting yeah you need to before getting into a project before starting to utilize your money is you need to have a very strong budget you know this is what you project to be the expenses and this is the margin or the profit that you're gonna make out of it and then now you have need to have the discipline of the systems and structures to be able to follow through that budget up until completion right yes interesting thank you for that comprehensive explanation now let's come back to you startups from where you sit startups and SMS in general from where you sit and in your expertise experience or yeah I thought I from what you've observed so far in terms of the whole ecosystem surrounding the operations especially currently right now in our country how how is it if you are to maybe explain these to maybe a forum if you're to give a report to forum how is their nature of operations and maybe what are some of the let's say a recorded successes and maybe just a little bit of stagnation seen there okay in terms of startups yes all right first I want to recognize think there's been a lot of efforts towards supporting startups in the country which is a very good thing there are a lot of forums that are coming up there is a lot of engagements and discussions around which you know people with ideas or young people just come are being assisted in terms of resources in terms of you know consultancy so there is that assistance which is there at the moment which is a very good thing well and where we are at at this point say I'd say we're in a good space looking back from maybe 10 years from now maybe you can explain from pre-covid and post-covid yeah so yeah well pre-covid I'd say the startup ecosystem was was the the amount of steps that we've taken so far we're in a much better space according in relation to pre-covid I think back then there was not so much innovation in innovative efforts that that that were being you know channeled to the space but we see after COVID and which I think also COVID played a role is that there's been a change in mindset yeah and I think also just because of many people losing jobs and and and many companies like closing down so people have had to start to think differently right and so we see now there's been a lot more conversations around startups and and and a lot of startups also coming up and new products and new a new business even and industries are coming up so I think these these these there's a shift which is a good thing but there is also active need for stewardship and support of that even as that goes on because we there's this ideology that that businesses in Kenya and just just third world countries don't don't see their 13th month in between 12 months somewhere somehow it the vision dies down there's lack of you know funds to keep on running it or there's sustainability yeah there's that lack of sustainability so so having knowledge of that there is also need for a very strong ecosystem right yeah to be able to support these startups and it also means it also trickles down to even our government how they what is the role they are playing in ensuring that that community is thriving yes yes yeah the government has a very key role as well but also it I think it has it has done quite a bit of our kind of you know most of the time we want to talk about the government we we know we don't have to taxes taxes regulation yeah all those many other things in there yes there is there is something I call a special economics zone for for services and you can check this out there is there is there is a space that they're opening up at two rivers and he believes by the Ministry of Trade and some other players right where they are giving incentives to startups being in the special economics on within in as much as you're offering services you're given a much lower taxes or in a period of 10 years and there's many other incentives that and support that comes along with so SCS is that special economic zones have been there but it's mostly been in manufacturing industry right and it's a good thing that now they've opened it up to also the service industry so it's a it's the the opportunities that are opening up the government is making good steps towards it and I think for me I think there is a lot of work that can be done in the private sector as well in as much as we would want to rely on the government a lot but these there is a lot of steps that we can take even in the private sector right yes the government is can can create create platforms for us the biggest thing you can do is you know make legislations that will is is the business the way we do business or create an environment in terms of you know peace political climate needs to be good it needs to be welcoming for investors foreign investors to come in so there's that that environment that they I think feel like the government that's the part they play very well in as much as aside from that the private sector also needs to come in and also create create now so it's sort of say forums or just to enhance that ecosystem yeah I'll just collaborate and partner and just create that open interaction so that it's seamless in terms of operation which is a very good thing now let's maybe also get back to capital cause every startup needs capital and then also for the purposes of understanding what is a startup what is an SME so that we just get clear that we can move to how can even our local businesses scale up to international spaces as well yeah so shortly just startups define what startups for purposes of understanding and SMEs as well then we can delve further into it okay so a startup is is the very initial stage of our business so you're just figuring you're putting yourself together in terms of value offering and also where you want to penetrate so it's very initial stages of a business and SME is one that has already made a couple of miles in the market so there's criterias in terms of number of employees there is criterias in terms of revenue so but for I think to make it simple startup is very initial stages and SME is one that has already gone into market and made steps into here right thanks now for like you said for any business actually to grow and expand like you said pre-covid and now post-covid tech has really played a huge role in terms of even adaptations and I understand there's even businesses that are slow to adapting to the current trends on the market and even just the whole ecosystem or the whole environment of operation in terms of also innovations as well and you mentioned the stories that the culture and also the size of the business so maybe if you could just paint for us a little picture of how Hastech played a role in maybe catalyzing or advancing operations in the SME and startup sector yeah tech is one of the biggest enablers of growth in startups and the business ecosystem one thing is automation of processes and systems yeah so they brings a lot of efficiency in how we do our normal day-to-day tasks I think it's been it's opened up our our reach so once you once you for instance you get an you get into e-commerce you have a wider audience you're able to service is not only in Kenya but in Uganda Tanzania in Asia in you can you have a wider audience so that's the other bit that has as you know that has played part there's a lot of efficiency in terms of payments think there's a lot of payment systems that come up you know going way back to MPSI just making it easy for people to do business right now if you want to if you want to buy a ticket to an event you can just buy it off of your phone and get every detail that you need you have to make a phone call so there's a bit there's this there's an ease of doing business that comes with technology and advancement or adaptation it's a very good thing and I feel businesses really need to adopt tech it's it's what is it's it's now what we need to all get into that space there's a lot of advances as well I think the more we get into it the more even even in African setup we'll be able to see how best can we take advantage of this because it's so far we've just we're adopting the advances that are coming off of the latest you know innovations yes let us we have all the health things like AI taking over and also they're playing a huge role by the way yeah especially in education and the medical sector stories like E learning and the rest of machine learning rather as well yeah yeah there's yeah they are changing the whole dynamic the whole dynamic and yeah it's it's we had better get into get into it earlier on rather than later before it be it becomes way to advance for us to catch up but I think we're making good steps it is there's a lot of I mean they go mention the government the government has done a very good thing when you know when you leave when you leave the country that's when you understand that yes we turn our privilege because think like internet access it's a very key thing yeah and for us I think the government has done a very good job in terms of infrastructure for internet access now in talk about tech internet it's it's the pillar right because when you get to these other countries they really honor the reasons why they're not able to advance in as much as as much as we are it's because of such infrastructural gaps right yeah so so yeah and I think that that's the place that yeah thank you thank you for that thank you for that now when you talk about now scaling globally I believe I believe I think should be safari come should be safari come one of the biggest tail cost we have in Kenya that has managed to scale internationally rather than globally because you can be the US and still be able to send money to Kenya to a business even to your loved ones as well I was just thinking and trying to wrap my mind around it maybe what could have could have been some of the measures or some of the factors that you know pushed safari come to scale to such a big space where it's internationally recognized and for example that company that's also trying to like maybe also venture towards that trajectory maybe what are the things they're not doing that maybe are preventing them from scaling globally and what are the things that safari come possibly could have done that made it scale globally if you can just briefly discuss that okay so what one of the things that really helped them was capital just access to capital for them to do such volumes of such magnitude of work you need a lot of capital so access to capital is one of them to there is governance issues right so how are you structured internally how are you how are you making sure that the team is able to collaborate and work efficiently how are you able to manage tasks need to if you know if I'm a customer service I need to know exactly what I'm doing I need to be trained so there's issues to do with capacity building there's issues to do with structure internal structures that enable that sort of growth here these yeah these so the skill set is also very key and important for you to give a top tier service you need top tier brains you need top tier expertise to be able to serve that so I think in as the capacity building element is very key but also trying to make sure that you find very best fit players to to be part of your team it's also a very important part right yes I think in such things and also just partnership right partnership with global players for you to access their markets for you to access their infrastructure to you yeah to for you to gain audience yeah so those are some of the things that right there are factors that are actually of money to help and I think I also understand so far come as even money to also partner with people and I think also equity bank equity bank is also one of the biggest industries that has money to scale globally and partner with people as well I think we have also a Java house yes Java house has almost branches everywhere in the country including China as well in Kenya as well and many others I think also including Chandaraya Chandaraya Chandarana Chandaraya yes one of the best examples here that we have in Kenya so far yes right some of these organizations have adopted back to two now structures and governance and all that adopted especially in look at retail franchise model right so a franchise model it helps you replicate the business that you operating right now in any space that you want to so it's clearly a stipulated every single thing that every stuff is supposed to do right within the timelines you know and there's also KPIs and there's also ways to monitor and improve such services so these is a whole manual that is normally prepared and it's just given and put to play right so having such a structure having such a system in place it's easier for you to then scale up right yeah and those are some of the things yeah so that's some of the things that we need to adopt right from your observation and your lighting maybe if you can briefly maybe explain if you are to give a short description to just the nature of the global buckets and the behavior I believe also for us to also attend that space where we are able to extend further to and even tap into other countries including the China mentioned in the USA I believe we should be exporting services right yes so I believe the export sector plays a huge role in also scaling so briefly if you can talk about that how is the nature of the international space yeah or global space yeah I look and this is just how God designed the whole world yeah there's resources everywhere and there is there is a part that we play each and every one of us so it's one of the things is very important for us to add to to understand where we are at to understand what resources we have what makes us unique and what can we offer to the whole world right so for instance the Chinese in as much as they're selling to us devices and you know all these equipments it's so easy for them to create on the other side because they have they have one the manpower they have resources one of the things that also they would need from us so what would they need from us yeah so these things that we can also export to them these and it goes back to a production process right here thank you mentioned yeah yeah so there is things like clubs those things that some of us don't even you know don't even consume that much but they are in plenty in our country so so we need to identify what our strengths and what are the needs out there and just so there and supply to that demand there is there is a lot of opportunities if you ask me in terms of export and that's only you know pertaining that's what I've mentioned only but these in terms of services also these opportunities that we can take advantage of because if you just look around East Africa right there is we're talking right now we're talking about businesses there are businesses that are struggling in in Tanzania there's a businesses that struggling in Uganda how can we reach out to them South Sudan how can we reach out to them how can we enable those ecosystem also to that way we are exporting the service as well so I think in when you talk about increasing the volumes of export right we need to identify what are what are the opportunities that you know what are the resources we have and what are the opportunities that are out there these there's a lot of opportunities to take advantage of right we take that approach I think we can be able to seize so many of right now for a company already or maybe a really established operation that's a really working in that space maybe how can they also expand their profit margins okay so expansion of profits of stretching that one is stretching their profit margins stretch their profits or rather grow yeah so these days these different ways and it also depends on what you also business how you operating your business for instance if you're in retail and you're operating a physical supermarket in Nairobi you can only have access to the people within Nairobi region isn't it and maybe some people who be passing by Nairobi but but entirely just the people who are within your with people who are within your region yeah so if we look at expansion in that way if you focus to just operate in the Nairobi that one shop in Nairobi you have a we have a cup right there's we have a ceiling rather there's only so much you can get to right so so then now scaling up in that sense that means that you need to you need to break barriers later yeah because it's like you've been hindered exactly one of the ways is to adopt e-commerce all right because e-commerce exposes you to a wider market you can be able to sell to someone in key in in kijabe right and you know and and and transport your goods all the way to that place so there's different ways to look at it I think it's different for different industries yeah if it services services it's a lot easier to operate in the different markets right and yeah so I think it's different cases for different industries right I'm being told they have to wind up but there's a lot so much actually put at the table and finally before you tell us what you're conducting very soon coming up shortly maybe just to summarize on that part maybe some of the hindrance blocks that can prevent a business from scaling globally I understand there's things like bottlenecks trade embargoes and the rest even red-temping right yeah maybe just one if you were to explain maybe to a person who is watching right now just one and that you can tell us okay the things that yeah blocking us to block us yes okay so for me I'd like to mention the mentality the business mindset I think we need to change the business mindset one of the one of the speakers said for you to for you to to to grow you need to have the mentality to grow right yeah so if you're only thinking that this is enough for you and so then you will always be there you won't see opportunities to scale up so I think first begins with a change of mindset change of mentality you need to establish goals for yourself and say that this year I need to get to one million USD by revenue right and so then when you start from there you can now begin to look for opportunities on how to get there right the thing that's one of the things one of the key things from just in those things all right yeah just one now I understand you have a forum coming up on Twitter second of March that is next month maybe you can tell us just shortly and I think in an in less than a minute in the camera where people can get to maybe participate I understand it's a community of just think tanks coming up together to give insights on how to go the way forward in terms of business and auto on actually literally entrepreneurship in less than one minute okay right on the 22nd of March we're gonna have a forum called gda forum it's a forum happening it's a dinner that we've arranged it's happening from 5 p.m. at the at the Moven Peak residence here in Nairobi so we're bringing together experts and key players in the different industries we're having banks we are having representatives from NSEs and other industries and they're going to we're gonna come together as a collaborative effort to speak about the some of the pertinent issues that are facing us the entrepreneurial ecosystem in the country and we we we hoped to come out of that with with a well-laid out model or plan on how to enhance entrepreneurship in the country and and all that yes anyone wants to participate is there an email or a booking yes give it very fast shortly yes please please get in touch with us at grow develop Africa dot org and you'll find every detail there you can get ticket sales good go at 4000 for Ali bird that's ending at on the 5th of of of March so you need to a tutorial we're also offering an offer to anyone who is within our audience to use that to use the tagline lean and if you use that tagline to purchase the ticket you can get a 500 shillings discount off the ticket sales all right hurry while tickets are still being sold right now so Ali bird will still get the discounts right yeah Ali bird you get a discount and so we need to make sure that you buy before 5th of March all right yeah before after that is going to be 4500 all right you know what to do thank you so much my clean one goal for sharing your insights we definitely have to go thank you this has been a riveting conversation and I think we were just a quarter into it yeah right we'll definitely invite you next time and we take a break shortly Stefan is going to be coming up with an interesting conversation as well yes to literally extend father on what we have been talking about right here at white two for 4 channel and at brand soccer 101 we take a break we come back with much more stick around