 I guess you can say my life has always been kind of... It sounds like the start to a puncture. Yeah, drenched in like religion. Because I grew up warming. I may not be there. I don't know yet. Oh, I think so. Would you be cool if I recorded this talk? Yeah, I don't want to know. So what I do is a hobby where I talk to people literally about anything they want to talk about. What are common topics? The funnest ones are things about that you strongly believe are true. So it's something that you're willing to not like... This is not an argument, this is not a debate. But something that really strongly motivates you or something that you know that you can't be wrong about. Those are the fun things you're willing to force. Because if it's like... I agree that Old Navy's better than Banana Republic and you don't really care. We can talk about for like a second, but then you're like... I guess whatever, it's not a big deal. What's something that you know you can't be wrong about? Well... Oh my god, I'm tied by the way. What's Aaron? Aaron. How do you spell that? A-A-R-O-N. A-A-R-O-N? Yep. Oh man. First time's good enough. No worries. We're gonna track you down. I'm tied by the way. Nice to meet you. So something that you know you can't be wrong about? Oh man. See, I feel like you guys already got into religion. If you want, we can do it again. Oh man. I mean, especially with that ice cream. Oh my god, you got a sign now. Oh yeah, yeah. You must be born again. Yeah, yeah. I guess I know I don't need glasses. Yeah, yeah. If you want, you want to knock out religion in like a quick sec? Let's see. I'm also really big into politics. I don't know a lot about politics. That's fair. That's fair. But it's whatever you want to talk about. You can take your pick. What do you feel more confident about? It's hard work to ask. Hey, thanks. He's a nice guy. Random stranger give me candy. What do you feel more confident about? Your religious beliefs or your political beliefs? I feel more confident about my religious beliefs or my politics. So we can talk about my religious beliefs. You want to do it for five minutes? Yeah, sure. All right. So what religious beliefs are we talking about? I'm a Christian. That's a lot of different things. I know, right? I'm part of the Protestant nomination. Okay. More specific. There's a really good history behind the Protestants. There is, yeah. More specifically, I get into Anglicanism. There's a lot of good history behind Anglicanism. Yeah, yeah. Only because I try to get as close to Catholic without being Catholic. Why is that? Do you know the whole history of the Protestant Church? It's like King Henry is just like, you're not going to tell me I can't get a divorce. Screw you guys. And he's like, I want to be a baller of my own place. Screw you, Pope. And the Pope's like, get the assassins out. Like, they were so baller back then. Yeah, yeah. Plantagenet dynasty, man. No. This is post-war of the Rosas. I'm sorry. I'm a nerd. No, it's okay. It's okay. All right. So Anglicanism or Protestant, what's a really strong claim that you think is true? Yeah, he's true. Like, God exists, maybe? Yeah, God exists. Just keep it nice and simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a great one to start with. Okay, so like the whole thing is I'm not, I will ask questions, but it's not like you're wrong. It's just like, how'd you get there? Trust me. And we might see that I and I and a lot more stuff than you imagined. But what I'm trying to figure out is, are you using a reliable way to get to your conclusion? And typically my advocacy is, I don't know, it's a good option to add. So like what, how confident are you that a God exists? Um, so I'm very certain. I'd say 100% certain. If I were to define 100% for you, just as a frame of reference, so I won't assume. 100%, there's no way you could be wrong. You have zero doubt. No evidence in the future will change your mind. No evidence in the past will change your mind. You're close-minded on the position. Hmm. I actually had this talk not so long ago about what happened when we found extraterrestrial life. Yeah. And it had me shook for a second because I was like, ooh, if I did, there's no mention of that in the Bible. And so there's mentioned creatures that we can't find. But there's no mention of like extraterrestrial life that there's mention in the Bible and if we did find it, it would, oh man, I don't know if I'm 100% now. Only because I remember coming away from that conversation and saying, man, I don't know what I would do, what my answer would be vividly to that. And so... And you know me, I like how they don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And so, okay, I changed to 98. 98? Okay, 98. 98%. 98%, that's pretty high. Would you mind if I asked you how did you get so confident? Yeah. What got you to that 98% confidence? Okay, so I guess you can say my life has always been kind of... It sounds like the start to a puncture. Drenched, yeah, drenched in like religion because I grew up Mormon. Okay. Yeah, so being involved in the Mormon Church was interesting. My family left when I was about eight years old, became Protestants. I didn't really go to church with them that often. I got invited by a friend. Got involved in the church young. And when you're young, you tend to be really driven emotionally. And so I had the emotional feel to God. And so I just dove into it more and more and more and more, fell off, came back to college, got reignited through the campus ministry and just had some really supernatural encounters. Oh, whoa. Those are huge. Yeah, those are big. Supernatural encounters? Sorry to interrupt you. I didn't mean to. Go ahead. That's all right. Supernatural encounters? Yeah, I just had... You know, dreams... What would you say is like the most important thing that happened to you to get you the 98% like the best thing that got you to the 98% like there might be a lot of things but like what was the most influential? Most influential thing. I would have to say nothing has really been able to reassure my belief in creation as well as Christianity has. And so like... Creation? I'm very logical. I mean, men are typically. So like, I really like to dissect the ins and outs of everything and Christianity was the first thing that really satisfied everything. It was satisfying? Yeah, it was satisfying. Did you say everything's a creation? Did I hear that right? You said you believe everything's a creation? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Except for God. Even for empty space? Like what we're expanding into? Yeah, is that also creation? Yeah. What are we expanding into? I think it's just... No, I don't think it's things that have been created yet. I guess I think the Lord's still creating things. Oh, this is really interesting. Yeah, I think the Lord's still creating. I think it's funny because... This is really interesting. In Genesis... Oh my gosh. There's the first time anyone's ever said that. Yeah, no worries. In Genesis, I mean God spoke into existence. Everything. And one way I like to rationalize the claim of the Big Bang and things like that is like everything is just trying to catch up with what the Lord has said. And so like it's expanding. Oh, wow. That's a weird way to put it. Everything is catching up to what everything is catching up. You can talk and go mind-blowing. Yeah, that's how I view it. I just think of, you know, the Lord spoke and it's still an expanding process. I'm just saying that, you know, it's like limiting God. I'm not saying that God can't create everything. I guess in our observable universe is everything they are created. Yeah. Do we have examples of things that are not created? Like can we point to a rock and say, okay, that wasn't created. I don't think so. A vacuum and say, that wasn't created. Or like a light switch and say, is there anything that we can use as a frame of reference? I mean I can think you can point to like coldness is just being like the absence of heat. Or like, things that haven't been created are just the absence of things that have been created. Could I say then, is your idea that everything is created supporting the 98% such that if you didn't have that belief your confidence would drop more? Yeah. Like 98 to 97 even? I mean like, I mean I don't think, that's another thing. Jesus, I mean, from a theological standpoint wasn't created. Everything was created. Everything was created. And so Jesus, I mean, there are some nominations. I think that Jesus is the first creation. I mean, there's a verse that mentions him being the first born. Sure. Up God. And so like, but I disagree with that only because I think Jesus is from everlasting. But then his physical body, there's so many debates on that like in this Christian world. Could you mind if we go back to the creation? Yeah, yeah. If everything's created? Yeah. But we don't have examples of things that are not created that we can like, also test and measure and study. Yeah. How can we say with confidence that anything's created? I'm wondering like, I tend to recognize things that are created by comparing them to things that are not created. But how about this design? I can tell something's been designed by comparing to something that's not designed. Yeah. I can tell what a table is because I know what things that are not a table is. Like if I had a sock drawer that I could only tell you socks but I'm not able to recognize what something that's not a sock looks like. And I open up the clothing drawer and I pull out a piece of clothing. These are socks. The quick question would be like, do you know what things that are not socks look like? No. But I'm very confident that these are socks. It's like, well, until you have a friend of reference, you can't really say that with a lot of confidence. If we don't have an example of anything that's not created, how are you saying anything's created? It's created. Yeah. If everything is created in this worldview. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. That's, yeah, me stumped. Can I fill something out yet? Yeah. And my goal isn't really to stump you because you're supposed to work it out. Is creation really what's getting to the 98%? Because it seems like we don't have a way to recognize what creations are. But if that's the case, then what's really getting into that 98%? Is it the feeling of satisfaction that you get from believing in it? No. I don't think so. Okay. Because I think you would agree you're logical. You wouldn't agree that just because something satisfying means that it's true, right? Absolutely. So what is getting into that 98%? I would think, actually, no, I would go back on that. Let's do it. The 98%, I mean, it does come from the sense of creation. I know that, man, I'm not good with words. And so it's hard to rationalize and verbalize what I'm trying to think. Take your time. No worries. And you can get up anytime you want to. No worries. Okay. So going back to the frame of reference point where I don't have anything to say that, if I can't point at anything and say that's uncreated, and then so how do I know if anything can be created? Just to clarify. What do you mean? Your worldview is that everything is a creation. The strongest proof that you have for that is what? Everything that's been, that's already in creation, I guess. So everything that's already created. So in creation is existing, things that exist. I would look at, if I asked you, if you prove that something exists, you can point at something that exists and say there's your proof right there. But because something exists isn't necessarily proof that it's been created. Like I would need proof of creation to demonstrate creation. I need proof of existence to prove existence. And it seems like you're pointing at existence and using that as proof to support creation. And I'm wondering how do you recognize something's been created? Hmm. Because I can agree with you that it exists. But how do you prove that it's created? I think the complexity of the universe that we live in. And so I look at the human body itself and other animals around us and the earth and the heavens. And it's just, it may be my bias of just growing up around church. Or as a human and an animal? Yeah. I don't think they're animals. But you also agree that God made simple things too, right? Yeah. And what does this complexity strictly support? What do you mean, define simple? Not complex. Like you say there's things that are complex and not complex, right? Yeah. No, I think there's... But everything is created? I think there's simplicity. I think there's, okay, I think there's very big or vast creativity even in the simplest things. I mean, you can look at... I get it. I get it. A speck of pollen. I get it. You go under a microscope and see the complexity that it actually is. I get it. Or an atom, if you just look at an atom. Yeah. Are you seeing them that complexity is what's helping you support this belief that everything was created? Or is it that's this proof for God? Or is it like all in the same umbrella? Complex things exist, therefore God exists. Is that... I'm on a train of thought. Sorry. Go for it. So... Oh man, I'm losing it. Exactly. Another thing that I also get points to the 98th thing that I can think of from the top of my head is the fact that... I don't know what to put in that word. I'm sorry, I'm fine. No, it's okay. You might be a little tick there. It's like a breast thing. No, it's insane. I'm sorry. It might be a couple of months. No, my whole point is for people to take a long time to think about stuff. There's this thing called slow-taking fast-thinking. Yeah. And I feel like when people give me jerk reactions, they aren't giving themselves the opportunity to critically think about the stuff that they believe. And the whole premise of this is, let's talk about something you really believe to be true. I'll try to have a stimulating conversation with you. And I'll give you the time that you need to think about it. And hopefully when you're done, you can also keep thinking about it. And if you see me again, any other new topic you want to talk about, I just think it's good to think about stuff. How do you explain... How would you explain the systems that are observable in the universe? Like the reliance of stuff, like the complexity of the universe? Even at an anatomical level, we can find structure and order. Yeah. I mean, physics, you can find laws, you can find rules, things that happen in chemistry. So complexity is proof of design. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, going back to the complexity. Can I fill something out? Yeah. If I had a light bulb that took one step to screw into a hole, and I had another light bulb that took a thousand steps to screw into a hole, but they both made the same amount of light. Which would you say is better designed? This one that has one step, this is the thousand step one? Yeah. Is that what you're saying? The formula, yeah. It seems to be the case that simplicity is the homework of design, not complexity. And I think it's really interesting that you're pointing at something very complex as proof of the design. When we have a well-understanding basic appreciation for simplicity, why do you look at complexity and say, oh, that's proof of a brand designer? Well, I go back to the simplicity thing. I mean, I don't think that simplicity, I guess we're getting caught up in definitions, but simplicity, that's subjective to what you do. But I could make a system where these systems that you pointed out aren't relied on each other, which would be simpler than the system we have currently. Oh, okay, you're saying that you could think of something that would be simpler than what we have right now. It seems that we have a very complex, interrelated, interdependent system currently that we don't need to... Imagine designing this out from ground one again. This level of complexity wouldn't necessarily be indication of grand design. Why invent fire when you can... Just make things hopper? Yeah. So why is complexity getting into the 98%? I think the fact that complexity exists, so it's complex. Yeah, definitely very complex things exist. Multiple steps versus the one step. Still trying to rationalize that. And they both do the exact same thing. Yeah. I could duct tape if you had a car. I could duct tape another engine to that car, making it more complex, but you don't need another one. I could do 14 more engines on it, so that's not helping the problem. So I'm wondering, like, wouldn't the best design be the most simple? And if we agree that this is sort of complex and we can even think of simpler systems, why would we then point to complexity of the universe's proof of the designers? Yeah. Hmm. It's deep. Do you think your 98% is justified right now? No. I mean, not in... At least in the words that I have. But I... Can I throw something up? Yeah, yeah. Did I do this example with you? I love this example so much. Pretend it's second quarter, right? It's not a trick one. I flip it up in the air, catch it. It's on the back of my hand, right? And I don't know if it tells you. Do you know if it tells you? No. Okay, so we can go to science and we'll say, hey, make a lab, flip a thousand coins, come back to me. And they say, 50-50. I'm like, crap, that's not conclusive. Right? So I could have a very satisfying belief that the coin landed heads up, but it may not affect this, right? Just because I'm satisfied thinking that it's heads doesn't necessarily mean that it's heads, right? And let's see. I could believe that the universe is so complex that it has to be heads, right? But that may not even be a really good argument to determine if it's true or not, if it's actually heads or not. And the same thing could be said for, like, I don't know, verses that I read in books. It seems like this seems to be completely independent to a lot of different methods that I could use science or otherwise to come to a conclusive decision. And in that situation where I lack conclusive evidence, I think I don't know isn't necessarily just an option. I think it's the best choice. And I think a lot of people are wary of saying they don't know. But I think in a situation where you don't have enough conclusive evidence to know, either way, I don't know is the best answer. What do you think? That's a really good way of putting it, yeah. Do you have enough conclusive evidence to get used to 98% that God exists? And you don't have to say I don't know right now, but, like, do you think your position is justified? No. I don't know. Stuff to think about. Yeah, yeah, it's stuff. Aaron, I really appreciate it this time. Thank you. Yeah, appreciate it. Well, it's good. What is this? It's Let's Chat. Is it a YouTube channel? It's a YouTube channel. If you scan that, you'll see all the YouTube stuff. But really, I'm working on a way to talk to people about anything that they should not believe. And it's a wide gamut of stuff. It didn't have to be about religion. But, like, people tend to not put a lot of thought into stuff that they believe to be true. And it's just not... Yeah.