 We're glad to know that you're still there. It is at the run-up and we promise you that we'll be bringing you a Conversation around the education bank bill for students and to have that conversation with us is theophilus a catch-up He's a media consultant a public affairs commentator. You're very welcome. Can you hear me? It's our catch-up. Are you there? Thank you All right So we would want to get like a background first off the student alone as you know I would want to call it in a very general term. How do you react to this a new development? We talked about What you call it we talked about ASU and the very many options that should be open to them And we had a long conversation now The federal government is already preparing itself for that future with the With this bill that has been passed with the assent of the president. It tells you that there is a preparation towards autonomy full autonomy for Nigerian universities in which The students who will be confronting the scenario of paying high fees we have the option of Borrowing from this back We know that there is this general idea that Student loans is old-fashioned and it's not working. The idea is this don't It is the best way forward for our tertiary education There is no other way and there can be other ways But this is the best way at this time as the universities are going to move into autonomy They will have to charge their own commercial fees and government will not allow his own student or his own citizens To be confronted with the situation where if your parents can't afford if you can't afford if your guardians can't afford me So a lot of Which is optional for those who need it is a preparation for that inevitable future which I'm very excited about But there are a lot of fears first of all, let me just start with a new development interest rate in Nigeria just moved from fifteen point five to sixteen point five and Before that bill is even accented to there's a possibility the interest rate will even go higher These students that will be taking this bill. What else is being done by the government to make sure that when they take these Loans they can pay back. How possible is it? Yes Yes I think the bill is proposing zero interest for student loans So there is no fear about interest for now Okay, let me let me put it differently Sometime ago not too long ago There was the scheme that the NYSC the youth coppers will have to when they finish their year They'll they can serve like for the next two years and be receiving like double of the money They were receiving what we call a la we don't receiving it and then inside those two years There will be working as extension officers teachers and all that so that when they finish They can have something doing but there was no plan by the federal government that wanted to bring the scheme For these same people after the two years to have a steady job Maybe empower them to do what they're supposed to do with the learning that I've had in the extra two years how Can these loans or scheme? How can these? Thing work when you're just taking loans and there is no Corresponding jobs that when you leave the university that you are taking so much loans to go and Elon is alone you will pay back whether with interest or not if I take a millionaire I'll pay millionaire back, but I'm out of school and I don't have a job. How will that work out? Yes Graduates that we produce That is a problem that company must continue to solve and they are all you know job creation is a factor of Something that is a business of everyone is a business of federal state government local government private individuals and organizations and then foreign direct investments and foreign investments But if you have a country you will have the level of insecurity that we are all talked about and we are experienced You'll notice that investment will be reduced if you look at the growth of corruption that is great or that business will be Meaning work as themselves who loves the business because of the idea from short so indeed There are not enough jobs, but the future of any country is always bright And so the government will continue to work towards a better future hoping that by the time they are able to improve on the general well-being of the country is infrastructure These are these electricity rules the rail network and reduce and increase the level of security jobs naturally will follow a vibrant and a bigger population You know that it's not enough to have a country of 200 million people They have to be employed and you've got to train there really for that future So we know it will impact on repayment But the government will factor that into the second fund because the government will guarantee these loans And so the government must look at it and see is a very difficult enough rising in the U.S It would divide his attempt to forgive student loan was rejected by the courts. The court said no He must pay because a lot of people are falling in 2014 in the U.S. Are rising from coffee and they have turned them to loss of jobs Occasion by many of the companies moving to China. So it's happening even in country like us that they have defaults So our government Have enough information to prepare for defaults in the future or delay repayments But that there are two things here with we have Training the people that will potentially come to do the jobs and then creating the jobs themselves Which one did you think do you think should have come first? Is it that they're putting the they cut before the horse by thinking about Churning out thousands upon thousands of students that will now come and wait for the government to try to create job remember Before this administration came the promise was that a million A hundred million jobs will be available and or at least a hundred million people will be removed from poverty now We have a hundred and thirty million people from the reports that we've had Fallen that are falling into poverty. So in a case where we see our government as I don't know whether to say bereft of ideas To create job for the people had which one do you think should have come first? Is it not trying to innovate ways to create jobs before you think about Making education easier for the people who will come and man these jobs. I Don't know your take place Anyone of them if you look at it Where the business of creating jobs has been an ongoing process, but you see that this issue of university autonomy You know, it's another area that we are not we are producing Unemployable graduates and the country is bleeding financially because of the kind of money that we spent in for in seeking foreign education So if government's able to resolve the investment situation What if we free the money that government spent in running the best is today? government will retain that money and put the money in the creation of jobs by improving infrastructure and security and Natural and the job creation will follow in beautiful country with good infrastructure Because companies and investors will come here We want to establish their businesses in the country and more of our people who finish Who are properly educated we create up the companies that we create where we're being So I think the government is attacking it because The business of population is not it's all but it has already established so many investors that he's unable to fund and on the Never-increasing level cost of funding messes continue to go Where resources are becoming late? So the government's consideration of course on what we see is that you have to stop depleting the cost of running Investments and allow the investors to run themselves and then save the whole citizens by channeling those monies into loans So that if they start paying back however small it's torment it will be a Very strategic and that's what we have done many years. Yeah, it's okay. Let's applaud the government But um, whatever the government in Nigeria, I mean say something about giving loans to the citizenry It's we kind of like look at it with a pinch of salt like okay. They talked about trader money. That was a direct Expenditure from a batch of loot as we call it of that year and we didn't see much of it and eventually it was on an election year and a lot of people said the money just Went down the drain in the name of trader money now. They're talking about loans that will be given to students What qualifies the students to become beneficiaries of these loans? We do not even know whether I will also have a Nigerian factor and all that do you think that? that Monitoring and everything that should make that project work can be hard, right? Or from the way you have seen they have already had it right that we can get To where we want that student loan thing to get to when it's it kicks off well What just as you said the main problem we have in our country It is not the tradition of the project that we develop or in event It is the cross in Motivation of those we implemented So the Nigerian factor you have said which is it in most cases is a negative factor I don't think the Nigerian factor is it said to be Nigerian factor for a positive purpose So if it is the Nigerian factor For for negative that that's how do we deal with it? We cannot Bring alien to run Nigeria So we all must be up and doing to ensure that the human Nigerian that is put in this place it Made to do what they should do because her country is be devil by Unpatriotic citizens who are holding various offices and taking advantage of those offices for their personal good That's a common phenomenon Which is sad? So my hope is that if this is developed We should make it work what qualifies a student according to the app He says academic and a minute you have gained admission and you desired the loan nothing else should be a condition Ability to pay back is not considered collateral is not requested. So you get admission and you want the law Because it will be on your record. I know a student you can affect your rating and affect your promotion You can affect a lot of things in the future So it's called once a person qualifies academic and a minute. He has been admitted into a university Okay, that person Submitting all that to the bank will get that low money disbursed And then you will think of repayment after graduation when I went to South Africa I was in the shopping in In a mall in a supermarket And I saw two young people a boy and a girl. They were selling a certain product So I stopped by to look at what they were selling and they asked me please buy sir Well, we're doing this to pay our loan A student loan is due so I had to do this quickly so that the next installment do not fall I've not gotten a regular job. Are you getting that picture? So this is somebody who finished when it's in South Africa by using the facility of the student loan and He's finished school and he decided to do a quick salesmanship in order to pay student loan So everyone of us will respond to it differently That one has not got a job and South Africa is not safe because everybody has not got a job Therefore, we don't do that in America. Not everyone gets a job And yet the student loan system is made to continue to work. So we must continue to do it Okay, well if there is anything that Nigerians have is fate. So we have fate that things will work out and Sometimes we experiment and then it works out for us. Sometimes it doesn't work out But we'll still have something to learn. Mr. Katubat. Thank you so much for coming on the show today to share your perspective I want to thank you. Let me remind you just now. I had there was a summit by the by the National assembly speaker of the House of Rem alright, honorable, but I'm here But I've been me but I've been a very difficult name to produce. He held a summit Our messenger was there It's a former vice chancellor of the University of Lagos Including the current ASU president. Do you know that none of them In the academia suggested autonomy for you this The shy away from that they kept digging into the current system of grabbing more getting more money We have all seen how our universities continue to dilapidate in In physical infrastructure and in academic implementation And we are not worried that most the country must free the federal government Continuously of the burning of the huge weight Is Today I buy petrol today Modern 309 is put in my pocket per liter everyone that buys petrol and we wanted to continue And all of this is from the same small cost of a federal government It just cannot sustain it and that's why in all aspects of our life We have problems and we're wondering how do we have problem We have problem because we don't have money to meet up all these needs at the same time So if we do this it will help and we will prefer my children take the loan and go to this school well and they do not strike Okay. Well, thank you so much. Mr. Akatubra for that addendum Okay, um now maybe anybody who doesn't step up to our responsibility will call them alien So Don't be alien Um, you know while he was talking something struck me. He mentioned how that even in america Uh, it's not very rosy I I can't really quote him, you know, I bet him right now But you know, he was trying to mention how that it's not easy anywhere in the world. We should just take responsibility Uh, you cannot compare because in america, they have a system that works There is so many ways to hold these people responsible like when they get the loan they just can't Run away or something get where I'm coming from you understand and then When you asked him the question about putting the cards before the horse um I feel like It's it's going to be a very long process. Please. I'm not trying to be negative I I like the idea, but and I would like to see it work But I don't think we have everything it needs You know, it requires to make it work. I guess that would be conversation for another day We'll keep talking about the education system in injera, but now we're going to take a quick break For the news to come up and when we return the run-up will continue. Stay with us