 There's some truth in the saying, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. All right, so obviously the dose makes the poison, but when it comes to training your body or doing things to your body, a little bit of stress can actually make you far healthier and stronger. For example, exercise, a stress on the body, your body adapts, gets stronger. Heat, okay, sauna has shown to be improved health, but while you're in the sauna, it's stressing your body out. Cold plunge, cold plunge is pretty remarkable. Shown to boost immune function and the production of feel-good chemicals. So all these things and many other things that can cause stress can actually make you more fit, healthy and strong. The key is understanding what the right dose is for your body, what you can handle and adapt to. I'm immediately reminded of that meme from the hangover. Remember that Asian guy from the hangover where he's like, oh, but did you die? You having a bad day? Did you die? I got shocked. But did you die? Yeah, Mr. What was the name? Mr. Something. I just watched that with my kids, by the way. Great movie. With my 13 year old daughter and the scene when he jumps out of the fricking from any naked. He just lets it all, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's very revealing. Classic. Not a good dad. Have you guys watched the, I brought this up a while ago. I don't know if you guys have seen it since I've said it to you guys, is the, you know, how long has Wim Hof been doing his thing? Like over a decade, right? He's been preaching this message. I feel like just recently in the last year, maybe two years, has really taken off as far as becoming like popular. Now I can't go through my feed without seeing at least two or three Cold Plunge videos. Because of that, like anything else, you see the counter movement now of everybody that's trying to shit on it. And like, oh, that's ridiculous. To do something like that, there's so many other better things that you can do. You know what was funny? We were like speculating. I think I was skeptical as to whether or not it was going to like catch fire, take off because it's hard. You know, it's not like a lot of people enjoy doing it all. But then again, it's like I should have known like, because you got your Spartan races, you got your OCR events, you got these like, I feel like we're seeking out discomfort a lot more now because we're still. Well, our body requires it. And if you live too comfortably, you actually become sick and chronically ill. So you have to choose to exercise. You have to choose to stress your body out appropriately. That's always the key here. But the cold, I mean, cold plunges, I mean, they do boost immune system. They do, in many cases, regulate hormones. They do produce these feel good catecholamines. In fact, people have been known to become addicted to cold plunge, the feeling of the energy that you get after. So that's my theory on why it's taken off is because it speaks for itself. If you've, like, it's funny. It's always the people that are clowning on it or the people that have ever done it consistently. Right, yeah. It's like somebody who maybe put their foot in one time or like, this is stupid. Or they never did it, right? Because if you've ever done it at all with some sort of regularity around it, you feel the difference. I mean, you instantly feel it when you get out. And then if you do it consistently long enough, you start to see some of the compounding benefits from it. Yeah, and by the way, this is old wisdom. So because you now have products like Plunge, for example, you can put it in your home and it's filtered water and it maintains a particular temperature. So now we have these like products that you can put in your home for cold. It's like turkey, yeah. Yeah, for cold dip. People think this is like this new thing. People have noticed the, and acknowledged the benefits of cold water and cold temperature therapy for a long time. It's a part of certain cultures. In Russia, for example, they're known for when they bathe the kid to finish off the bathing with super cold water. There's videos of little kids in the snow. This is the recess and recess. They put their bathing suits on. The teacher like kicks them outside to go in the snow and take their coats, everything off, and then they throw snow at each other. I was just watching. There's a special on right now. I think it's on Amazon. David Letterman is interviewing you two, the band. And it's like a really cool and they take them back to their homeland and they tell their whole story. And there's an area that I forget what it's called but a special bathing area where like for hundreds of years, everybody else, it's like ice cold water and everybody, it's like a traditional place that everybody goes and swims in because of the benefits of the cold water. And they do it throughout winter and everything when it's like super ice cold. Wasn't there a group of, there was like a club? Polar Bear Club. Polar Bear Club. How long has that been around? That's been over, they're all over. They're all over the place. It's not just, they're in San Francisco, Truckee, yeah, it's just a ton of people that are a part of a club that go do these cold swims. Yeah. What's interesting about it is if you've never done it before, first of all, it sucks to do it. It's really shocking to the system. But when you come out, oh my God, like. It's euphoric almost. That's exactly what I was going to use. It's a sick ass pre-workout. You think, if you think you're- Actually the best way to use it would be a pre-workout. If you think your pre-workout is amazing. No way. Go try and do that. I mean the feeling of ready to lift and go at it is unbelievable. That's the best way to use it. Post-workout, the value would be, if you're going to work out again, and you see athletes have done this in the past, well they'll jump in like a plastic garbage bin full of ice water, because they're doing two or three workouts a day, and so they need to reduce inflammation to allow for that crazy amount of training. For the average person, you don't want to do that. You don't want to necessarily do that. But pre-workout. By the way, that's what the haters are trying to hate on that. Because it blunts the inflammatory muscle building signal or whatever. Right, which again, just reminds me of is how fasting was sold wrong. Yes. Fasting, we know fasting's been around forever. All kinds of great benefits to it. So with that, of course we latch on to the diet fat loss strategy of it, which is a terrible strategy to use it for. The same thing goes for the cold plunge. Yes, it can help facilitate recovery, but that's not even the biggest benefits from it, and that's not how I would use it. No, but pre-workout, what it'll do is it'll preset the inflammatory response. It'll create natural endorphins, which will help with pain tolerance. It produces catecholamines. So these are like dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine. These are the chemicals that you're trying to artificially ramp up with a traditional pre-workout. But your body literally produces them naturally by being exposed to the cold. And because you did something hard to get it, so Huberman talks about this. When you do something hard to get that dopamine, you don't create that feedback loop where you start to down-regulate receptors and starts to become a problem. This is actually a great way to get that dopamine release because you had to do something hard to get it. So that's how the brain is kind of wired. So as a pre-workout, that would be the absolute best way to use it. You've already done that. Oh yeah, consistently. That's how I like to use it. In fact, I think one time I've used it since I've been talking about using it consistently after a workout, and that was just because I didn't get to it before, and I was in a rush to work out, and then I still wanted to plunge. But I normally do the plunge first. You know, another benefit that I think is not highlighted enough is how many of us are chest breathers and are at this constant state of like, low levels of stress all the time because of the way we breathe. Shallow breathing. Yeah, you can't do that in that. You can't do that. You know, you won't last long. You'll be out in 30 seconds. So it trains you to learn how to take those deep, slow, controlled breathing and I can't stress enough. It's like resistance training for that. Yeah, and so there's tremendous value in the be able to calm yourself down like that in other times in your life. And I don't think anything does that better. Okay, to add to that. So what you're essentially doing is you're creating this, you're inducing this artificial stress response. And because you're in this stressed environment of cold and you are now trying to counter it by deep breathing, you are teaching yourself how to regulate in a stressful situation in a controlled way. The carryover to everyday life is profound because if you practice that on a regular basis and then you're in traffic or your partner triggers you or something happens with your kids or whatever, you can now regulate that response and maintain a much more calm, focused state of mind. And if you do this consistently enough, just like anything else, it becomes second nature. It's not like you have to go, oh, how do I do that? Right, right, right, right, right. You've been taught to breathe like that so much that you feel your body will feel yourself to get into that moment. It automatically happens. And you'll automatically switch over. So yeah, I mean, I think it's got a lot of benefits that we don't highlight enough. Everybody's always muscle building fat loss. We always... They don't care about anything else. Yeah, and I know there's a lot of people that pitch like, oh, and by the way, this is true too but it's again, it's not the reason why I do it. You start staying in there like I have been lately where I'm hitting five minutes and stuff like that. I'm fucking cold for like five hours. By the way, you know that at that point, speaking of fat loss, it does teach your body to convert white fat to brown fat, which is a thermogenic active form of body fat which burns calories. This is the kind of body fat you want. This is like the performance enhancing body fat, if you will, loosely defined. Well, you can, I didn't do it today but you could also tell like, so if I was, if I'd done it before we podcast today and this room is super hot and warm right now, I would still be like shaking. And that burns calories, that your body's sitting there trying to heat up and warm up and that continues like when I, when I started staying in the long periods where I'm in there for four or five minutes, I feel that for hours later. So you get this calorie burning effect. You've done five minutes. Did they test? That's how you consistently know. Five minutes? I actually, the first two is the hardest. The first two is the hardest. I can't do that. Yeah, once you get to the, to me once you hit the two minute mark, you've regulated your breathing, you're almost numb at that point. What I have a hard time doing is what I know some people recommend to do. I've seen Kelly Star, I talk about, I think I've seen even the Iceman do it, like where are you supposed to move? That fucks me. So I, if I get in, I gotta, I gotta get in. I get all controlled again. I hit that two minute mark and I'm like, still, I'm just, and I'm just focused on my breathing and relaxing. If I do this and move around, it like, it's almost like starting over the two minute clock. So you gotta get in there. You know what's weird about hot and cold tolerance? Is it, you can have one, you can be good at one and not the other one. They're different. Like I can go in a sauna or a steam room and I could chill forever. Cold sucks. Cold I do much better with. Yeah, you're the opposite, right? Yeah, no, I hate cold, so I gotta do it. I have to do it. So the brown fat, like did they, have they tested that in terms of like, when the time length of like exposure, like when it actually starts to convert? Yeah, I forgot what it was. It was like, you have to do, like how many weeks or months? I think it was like 15 minutes a week. I don't remember how long. Yeah, it's 12 or 15 minutes. I can't remember what, I've said it one time on the podcast before, to reap the benefit, like the max benefits, you wanna do a minimum of 12 or 15 minutes per week. Okay, yeah. But that conversion happens over time. So that was, that's also how I got up to kind of like the five minute mark was like, okay. You were trying to do the math there? Well, yeah, I was trying to go like, if I do a minimum of three days a week and I'm doing four or five minutes, I'm getting like the maximum. Now I try and do it every single day, but there doesn't happen. So I'm like, if I can get in there three times a week, be in there for four or five minutes, I'm gonna reap the most of benefits from it. I've been a lot more consistently doing mobility in conjunction with that. Cause I just started kind of getting after dead lifts and squats again, which you know, I've been real unilateral the last, I don't know, a few months trying to address my hip issues and instability. And so like, I don't know if this happens to you guys, it probably does all the time, but once you really start kind of lifting heavy, especially barbell lifts, like you just get that restricted, like tight knot, like especially here in form flexor. And it's just like, oh, and it just kind of like plagues you for a while. So normally I would take like one of those lacrosse balls and I put it like on the wall and I would just kind of roll with it and it's a little funky or whatever. But I found the, that mobility wall. So I've been using it just like, it's great for upper body, which I don't usually use a foam roll for my upper body as much, except for like maybe like two moves. Have you ever done it in the armpit? So if you do it for your upper body and it's in a doorway, Yeah. Are you like, You kind of lean into it. Yeah, it's one side. So then you probably more isolated. So how high do you like put it? So you need to probably Yeah, about shoulder height for that. Yeah, you can put it high or low. I put it about chest height for it. So they have like actually in the middle of it, which was a cool tool. I just realized they had. It's like a little tuning fork. It looks like it's like two little like forks that come up like this. You put your forearm through there and massage it through and it just kind of rakes up through the muscle. Oh my God. So this kind of dressed it perfect. Yeah, so this kind of work, they used to call it myofascial release. That's not really what's happening, but that kind of work is most beneficial on muscles that are hard to stretch. So like you talk about the forearms, flexors and extensors. The problem is, is, you know, once I try to stretch the extensors, my wrist locks, I can't go any further. So pressure becomes the best way to kind of break down and get that CNS. And obviously get into the mobility and like wrist cars and things, but like it still was like restricted. So that helped. Well, that's the ideal pathway would be, use the mobility wall thing to relieve, give the temporary relieve, calm the CNS down and then do like wrist cars afterwards. And then mobility. Have you guys ever done, consistently done where you do that kind of work on the Terra's major, minor in the armpit area? Bro. It's intense. It's gnarly if you've never done it, but then go do pull-ups or shoulder presses in your stronger, five pounds. My pull-ups always go up if I do that first. Oh, interesting. Yes, because I'll be tight. I've done it before, but I've actually never done it with that intent of doing it right before. If I'm going to max out on a heavy pull, I'll go do that and then I'll go do the heavy pull and I notice a pretty big difference. Today's workout program giveaway maps strong. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it here on YouTube. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. Do all those things and if you win, we will notify you in the comment section that you won that free program. Okay, there's scammers sometimes in the comment section. They will tell you to text them or call them. Uh-uh, not us. We will let you know in the comment section that you won. We also have a workout program sale going on this month. Maps and Abolic and Maps Split are both 50% off right now. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Anyway, I gotta tell you guys funny story. So, you know, obviously I have a, my youngest is, gosh, she's going to be almost five months here pretty soon. It's fine. And Jessica sent me this video of her, right? She was laying on the couch. So Jessica, she's such a chill little baby. We can put her down. She smiles, played by herself sometimes. And she was laying there and she's just like tripping out on her hand, you know? So she sent me this video and she's like doing this thing. And she's like, I think she's, I think our daughter's on Holicited Gems or something like that. But, you know, it makes you realize like at that age, at five months old, every day has gotta be the weirdest trip. Yeah. Cause she's seeing and she's just realizing like what's happening, I'm controlling this. The craziest drugs ever. You're at that the five month, I can't remember, I remember reading this like as far as like, cause their site is, it takes time to fully develop. Yeah. You know, they first. Like they see you up close. And they can't see like detail. It's like first like shape and like certain colors come through. And then so it's like, I don't remember at what point they really start to see like the three dimensional and like stuff comes out. So that's probably what you're seeing, right? It's always starting to come together. I think it's what, what Justin was saying where, you know, she could see her hand before but she didn't connect to the fact that that was her hand that she could control. Cause now she'll start to reach for things. Like one finger, you know, you kind of go through that whole process. I'm going to post the video, you know, if you're watching this on YouTube but she's literally laying on the couch and she's just like, well, like if you saw somebody too many mushrooms and you're like going to a rave or something, it was the cutest thing ever. But I mean, it's, it's, think about it. Like when you're, I mean, I can't even imagine what that must be like to be so new to have that many because infants have a massive amount of neural connections more than adult does. What happens is it starts to prune and fine tune itself. So they're literally seeing and feeling shit in like, you know, 5D like way more than we do and just tripping, just tripping out the whole time. It's, it's hilarious. It was fun. She's probably having a good time. Oh, what does that say? It is not until around the fifth month that the eyes are capable of working together to form a three dimensional view of the world and begin to see in depth. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I remember that. Cause I remember reading as we were going through the process with him and I actually didn't know that. That's like, I just assumed that the baby's born can see, they can see normal. And it's like, no, they, it's in phases. And I knew it was like around that time when it starts to really come all the way together that they can see three dimensions. Dude, I got a sports thing for you guys. Not really your sport. You guys don't really give a shit about the sport, but do you guys know who Lionel Messi is? Of course. They're one of the greatest soccer players ever, right? Did you hear what Saudi Arabia just offered him to go over there and play? Oh God, how much? Oh, wait. Okay. So this is another league like, like LIV. Is that what's happening with soccer? It's, okay. So yes, he's going to go over there and play in Saudi Arabia. And he got offered a $440 million a year contract to continue his club career in Saudi Arabia. Is he going to do it? Wow. I hope so. I mean, half a billion dollars. A lot of these guys are turning it down. You say, so this is like, have you not watched what Saudi Arabia is doing? No. Yeah, bro, they did in bodybuilding. They're doing it in pro golf. They're now doing it in soccer. And they're paying way over the top on everything. Yeah, cause like, what's the most a soccer player will get in club? Like, do we know what that is? It's got to be, it's kind of, I mean, they're pretty well paid, but yeah, not 400. That's crazy. Ronaldo is one of the highest, Ronaldo Lionel Messi and, I mean, they're up there in the top 10 highest paid athletes already. But this is for a, this is not even a sponsor. No, that's what I'm saying though, is that they are overpaying. The golfers that just went over there are like, they're like top 100 guys, but they're not even top 10 guys, some of them. And they're getting paid more than like the highest paid golfers over here. So the live is paying like, and then we saw the same thing what they do with the bodybuilding community. I mean, look at the way they're, they're taking care of the pro body. That's where they all go over there now. So it's very smart when you think about, if you're trying to, you know, take the attention of millions of people. Two, like, I know. Wait, wait, was that a salary before? 41 million. That was what it was. That's 2022, yeah. He's gonna, 10 times more. 10 times, just like that. If you decide to do it. Think about this for a second. Look at the golf stuff too. Look up, look up live golf contracts. But think about this for a second. He could work for three years and be a billionaire. Yeah. And play soccer for three years. That's insane. There's these guys, the guys that went over to live, there's a really good documentary on, you know how Netflix did that whole one on F1 racing? They've done it now for tennis and they've done it for golf. It's really cool because you can not even be a tennis or golf fan and enjoy, they do a really good job of like introducing you to the sport and all the players and all the drama and stuff like that without feeling like you're gonna watch a whole, 18 holes being played or whatever. Okay, so Emirates, like, is Dubai's in Emirates? Is that? That's the airplane. No, no, no, no, no. That's the United, United, what is it called? The United Arab Emirates. Yeah. And I think Dubai is part of that. The capital, I'm not sure. Right, okay. Emirates, I say no, no, no, I'm right. Anyways, so like Saudi Arabia, I'm right. No, no, no, no, no. That's exactly what I said. Yeah, so Saudi Arabia, like, are they part of the United Emirates? I don't know. Is it? United Arab Emirates, I think is its own country. Saudi Arabia is its own country. Okay. To my best of my knowledge. I'm just trying, because the strategy that was there was interesting because it's like they have all this crazy amount of oil, money and money and they decided to put it all into the entertainment side of it, build these crazy attractions for people to fly in. They feel like this is the same kind of model they're trying to expand their money. Have you guys heard the stories of how some of these female social media influencers or only fans and girls will get these offers? Yeah. By some of these oil princes or whatever? Yeah. But like, I'll give you $5 million, I'll fly you out, do whatever and then I'll send you back home. And it's like a thing. It's like a big thing. So there was a meme I posted years ago. In fact, I think I even put it on my wall. I might be able to still find out. There's all the girls. Yes, it was a split picture and the top were like all the hot like Instagram models on a yacht. And then it was like the five. The other side to get the fat old fans. Yeah, the five guys that brought them there. And they're like the old, old fat, billionaires over there. That's like the for sure. The worst of humanity. I just saw an article on some girl posting something about how she, some guy paid $10,000 to fly her over just so he could take a selfie with her to post. And then like the next picture, she's posting it out with her boyfriend somewhere else like that. I saw that. Oh, you saw that one. Yeah, cause she took her boyfriend to wherever he was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just, that's great. What do you think is going through the dude's mind when he's paying $10,000 to take a selfie? Do you think he thinks to himself like? I think the same exact, I think the same thing that goes to the guy's mind who when the stripper goes, do you want to go to the back room for an extra $300? He's thinking he's going to convince. She likes me. Yeah, yeah. She likes me, it's going to happen. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's got to be the same thing. I mean, you don't get to have sex with her back there. She just dances on you. There it is right there. Yeah, that's the one. That's it. Oh, man. Do you think it's that or do you think he's doing this? Cause it might be this. He might have convinced himself. He's like, you know, I'm helping her. She's trying to build a career. Definitely not. They call him the simp, right? It's probably all relative, right? So let's put it this way. Like $10,000 still sounds like a lot of money to me, but maybe not to him. Maybe he's, you know, the guy's worth hundreds of millions of dollars and $10,000 is like $10. And would you pay $10 to take a shot at maybe a chance? And like he looks at it like, Oh, I mean, is this the same guy's buying fart jars? Yeah. Listen, first of all, I hate to say this, I hate to say this, Adam, but if he has that much money where $10,000 is $10, he doesn't need to do this to get attention. So the thing that, okay, the, so the only thing- He's gonna get attention from shallow women anyway, if he's got that much money. Yeah, okay, there's something to be said about this only fans phenomenon that we're going through right now that, and why I think it's so, one of the reasons why I think it's so successful is it creates this more intimate, real type of relationship. Yeah, you feel like you're actually talking to this. Yeah, to another level. And so I think that's why it attracts and gets people like this more than just, I used the strip club analogy, but I mean, you're going to a workplace. There's bouncers there, it's like, you didn't communicate with her, there was no flirting going back. But in this game, I mean, these girls engage with you. They talk to you, they send you smiley faces. They're talking back and forth. And so you feel like there's a connection there. And then you go pay in his eyes $10 to go maybe, maybe I get more, you know? You know what the stats are too on that? It's the vast majority of girls that get on there to try to make money because they hear stories like this, like this will be easy. I'll just show my boobs or whatever and make money. The vast majority make almost nothing. And they end up displaying their bodies or whatever. It's the 80, 20 rule still. Yeah. It's even worse than that. I don't remember what the percentages were, but the vast majority make like almost nothing. I don't believe that. I believe when it comes to girls, there's like someone for everyone. Yeah, but not making money like that. You think it's worse than 80, 20? Well, yeah. Well, I mean, I guess if you allocate it in terms of money maybe, but I mean in terms of number. This is the weird part though. Have you seen like some, okay. So this is like genres of this, right? So there's like the older ladies like making bank. Like who's going for the silver? So I mean, how could I say this? I'll give you trouble on this podcast. He's like, I am. Okay, so there's a friend of ours that we know that has a nanny. Sounds like, and I've seen her. She is not attractive to me whatsoever. Would have had no idea that her husband has made an only fans page of her. And it's like her feet and her nails and stuff like that. And it's like it, he crushes, he makes a bunch of money and he runs it and he just takes the photos of those stuff like that. And she is not cute at all, at all. But she crushes. Weird. There's gotta be something about it. Majority of only fans, creators, more than 80% make less than $100 a month. So imagine how sad that is. You go on there, you do some embarrassing stuff that's now out in the world and made 50 bucks for the month. It's forever. Forever. Now, if you guys were a hot chick when you were younger, would you have done it? No. That's such a quick answer. No, because it's an easy answer for me. Easy. Yeah, I don't want anything that sticks. Yeah, nothing that's going to be there forever. I always scared. Not like our first hundred episodes on the podcast where we said some shit like that. Yeah. Nothing condemning and, you know. We have that. Criminalizing. You know. No, I wouldn't, no way. Don't worry, I would do that. Uh-uh. Well. No, no, no way, not a million years. And my family would have to be starving. I mean, it's just your feet. God, that's weird. I know. That would be so weird. Yeah, what if you crushed though? Yeah. I mean crushed. I mean made crush videos. Huh? Yeah, that's weird. There's weird stuff like that. What is that? You never heard of that? Crush videos. Where they do like, they have like eggs or they have like little tiny Lego like. They step on them? And they just crush it with their feet or like their Godzilla. So they make it look like they're all huge. Yeah. And what it, what it. This is the word of God. Come on, man. Like I watched that show. Here's the thing. Before all the madness happened, I used to watch this show called Taboo. And they went through like everybody's weird kinks. And it was very fascinating to me. Yeah. So I got into it. Okay. What if you, what if you didn't have to do much? So like what if it was literally like. You're trying to sell me right now. What are you, what's going on here? Cause you were so quick to say no. And I wouldn't say no that fast. I'd be like, well, it kind of depends. Yeah. There's like sub-genre. I mean, how much am I struggling right now? Like what, what do I have to. Half my family was starving. Yeah. I'm saying you're so quick to say no. Oh my God. Yeah. All you got to do is sell your wife beaters after you. Yeah. Exactly. What if people got off on your tiny little shorts and wife beaters. And that was enough to. Why are they tiny? Yeah. Your little bikini briefs. Yeah. Your bikini briefs. Exactly. Your bikini briefs and your wife beaters. That's all you had to do. We'll sell it right now. And like, like it all pumped up after your workout shot. That's it. Not enough. We're running the side. You know what you guys are doing right now. You're setting up the editing team to put us some fucked up pictures. This is what's happening. Exactly what's happening right now. I see Andrew in the back laughing. The sad part is like Andrew already has a photo of that. This is gold. This is gold. I guess we won't use it. That was just for you guys to see. Okay. What the hell's wrong with you? You know what you dug? Would you do it, Doug? It depends on the circumstance. I see. I can't say that. That's a better answer. So I was like, no way. Which is so funny. He's probably the most likely to do that. What? No way. You can't have a road. That's a bold statement. He's like, I'll be a subscriber. I'm not going to be a subscriber. No, that's a bold statement. You almost did. You almost, you almost did. Well, I'm not that. No, I did not almost do that. You almost served drinks at a party. Well, that was nowhere. I got, I almost got reeled in on that one. Yeah. Like Barton. I could Barton. You imagine just had a walk around and it's just like a skivvy. So have a drink, have a drink, please. I think I was supposed to just be shirtless. I think I was supposed to be shirtless. But then I was supposed to do other stuff. They kept adding stuff, though. Yeah, yeah, they kept adding. I got closer to the date. That was exact same thing when I got the, when they were trying to get me to do the gay calendar when I was 20, like 21 or what like that. A guy like, hey, would you, you know, when you're like 22 and you're like super impressionable and I'm like working out in fit. And then I remember this guy, this guy approached me and wanted to know if I wanted to do modeling. And I'm like, oh, cool. My ego right away. Like, yeah, I'm handsome. You see that? Yeah, I'm handsome. I got what it takes. Yeah. Yeah, right. And they, they start you off with just like basic stuff. Oh, are weekends okay for you? And we're beach shots and like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Little by little. They get you saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it's like, like, are you comfortable with your shirt off? Like, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You comfortable with no pants on? Whoa, what kind of calendar is this again? Tickle fights. Yeah, yeah. But that's after like an hour of yeses and hearing all kinds of money you're gonna make. And you're like, I could see how they get people to do that. Like, cause you, at one, I know there was a moment in there where I kept saying yes, yes, yes. And then I started going, whoa. And then you're wrestling with yourself. I mean, you're cool with your costumes. Especially if you're vulnerable, you want validation. You want people to think you're attractive. You're vulnerable maybe in a situation where you need money or whatever insecure. You've got these people, you know, and then you get the money for it. Everybody's saying you look good. This is great. And then you end up, you know, in these bad situations. And it just so happens that it's usually young people, right? Cause that's what the market wants. So it's the worst. It's the absolute worst. Predatory environment. It's terrible stuff. Anyway, crazy stuff. All right, so I'm gonna go negative here for a second. Oh. Good time. There was an article in the New York Post. You know how I've been calling out how they're this weird campaign, the slow weird campaign to demonize fitness and health. Okay. And it's very strange. And it's following the lines of political campaigns. And if you follow politics, if you follow politics like it's a sport, you take a step out of it. You don't try and like, you know, want one side to win. You just look at it from the outside. You start to recognize these patterns and their strategies and how they slowly move towards a narrative. They test it out. They push it. And that's what they're doing with health and fitness. And the New York Post posted this article. I'll read the headline and then I'll tell you what the study actually said. It was actually kind of infuriating. Somebody sent it to me and I saw the title and I said, this is interesting. Let me look a little closer. So here's what it says. New research suggests that physical exercise has little mental benefits. Okay. That's the title. Wow. And this is how propaganda works. They often will take a study and they'll twist it a little bit and I'll explain that in a second. And then they make the title something and they know that the average person isn't going to read any deeper, dive any deeper. They're just going to read the title and they're just going to share it. And if you see enough of this, you start to believe. It plants all the seeds. You start to believe this narrative. So here's what the study shows. The studies show that if you are unfit, unhealthy and you exercise, you get a profound mental benefit which we've all known. When you compare healthy people to healthy people, adding more exercise doesn't improve mental health. No shit. You know, here's the thing with exercise. It's like vitamins. So misleading. It's like vitamins. When you lack a nutrient, you take that nutrient, you get profound benefits. If you don't lack that nutrient, taking more vitamin C or vitamin D or zinc isn't going to do anything for you. It's like saying somebody who's broke who now gets to make a quarter million dollars a year if it wouldn't change their life. Someone has zero dollars a year and you give them a quarter million dollars versus giving somebody who's already worth tens of millions of dollars and extra quarter million dollars a year how much it changes their life. Right. Yeah, no shit. It didn't change that guys. Right. So the mental health benefits, which by the way are widely recognized, the mental health and cognitive benefits of exercise are there because not necessarily because exercise is this mental health booster but rather lack of exercise destroys mental health and cognitive function. So when you add it to somebody who's sedentary, unhealthy, like most people, they get this profound benefit. If you take somebody who's already healthy, relatively active, you add exercise, you're not going to see this huge profound benefit. That's why that's how it works. And what they did in the study is they used that group and said, ah, see, there's no cognitive benefits. I just saw another one since you went on this direction. I just saw another one that was on, maybe Doug can pull up Dr. Ruscio's Instagram. I think it is Dr. Ruscio, I think it's his Instagram handle. He had just posted one on some terrible article talking about that probiotics are a waste of money or something. Did you see that one? I didn't. Yeah, that one had just, I think it's relatively new because he just posted it like two days ago and I had seen it. Did you see it, Doug? I see it, yeah. So it's Dr., let's see, Dr. Ruscio DC and it was. Read the title of the article. Yeah, probiotic supplements may do the opposite of boosting your gut health. Yeah. Yeah, and then what's the article? Yeah, what's his take, read the take on it, his comment, his thing on it without us having to read the whole article. So he says, cherry picking. My assumption is that the reason this old study is being resurfaced is another news piece is because it's performed well. This is why it's important not to get your healthcare information from the news. Click bait. That's interesting. So that's an old study. That's resurfaced right now, weird. I am saying this, I'm telling you right now, I don't understand, I can only speculate. I can only speculate why health and fitness is slowly becoming, there's this propaganda machine that is now demonizing it and it's starting to happen more and more and I'm gonna keep calling it out so that when you see it, you can remember this. So if you're sick, you're in a state of fear. That's my speculation. You're here to control. Do you think it's more demonizing in that or do you think it's more that they're just trying to cater to those that wanna hear that message anyways? I think that's the hook. That's the hook. They know that that's an in. But that's my speculation, obviously I don't know. But my speculation is that sick, unhealthy people are easier to manipulate. They'll buy more of your shit. It's easy for you to scare them into voting in a particular way. And pharmaceutical industry makes a lot of money. Sick, unhealthy people, their healthcare is expensive. Fit, healthy people, they don't cost much. So I don't know if I subscribe to it being that insidious. I think maybe it is just... How do you explain the strangeness of these artichokes because they get clicks and shares, that's why. And they're in the business of eyeballs and making money on advertising. There's a lot of ways to get clicks. Yeah, but it's obviously a proven way and that's why I think we're seeing more and more of it because I think more and more publications are going, oh, wow, when we do this alarm, when we put a obese girl on the cover and say she's healthy, boy, do we fucking get some attention. When we say probiotics are bad for you or they, oh, boy, we get some attention. When we say that working out is right, boy, are we getting... So I think it's, that's what I think. That's some of it. That's my less 10 foil hat version of what we're talking about. I would agree that that's some of it. But I think some of it is too strange to me. It's too fricking. It's too across the board. Weird, yeah. And it's like, it's being coordinated. I've never in my life read articles demonizing, like taking care of your health. It's really... There used to be government-promoted movements to bring awareness to the benefits of exercise and better nutrition. And it's been completely attacked, you know, instead now is all we're seeing is like all these articles and things like picking apart environments where people are trying to better themselves. Yeah, I don't know. I'm speculating, you're right. I totally speculate. I just think it's a brilliant strategy on their part. It really is. It's just like, you get, because what it does is... Because it's the opposite of what people know already. It's right. It's the opposite. It's like, I mean, this wouldn't work 20 years ago when no one gave a shit or paying attention. There wouldn't be enough people like us to get outraged about it. Maybe, yeah. And because there's enough people like us to get outraged, now you have all these micro, you know, networks and influencers that are like, you know, remember when that article came out with that girl on the front cover of it and titled it Healthy and She Was Obese? Do you know how? I mean, when you went through your feed of all of our fitness friends, did you find one that didn't talk about it? Everybody did, yeah. I mean, literally. So, I mean, and that's what they're, and let's be honest, the, you know, basic old, you know, cosmos and women's health, those are dying. And so they're desperate. And so they're looking for any way that they can create attention and eyeballs. And if that means saying outlandish stupid shit, that's gonna get us all talking about it. It's entertainment. There's no news anymore. And the reason why I think it feels coordinated is because it's working for so many other publications, they're all copying each other. Now, here's, look, I would tend to agree with that. And then you look at something like ESG, which is literally, Well, that's crazy what just happened with that. Well, listen, it demonizes companies and it benefits other companies. And it's through this kind of like social movement that they determine, which, you know, very strange by the way, like Chevron ranked higher. That's Tesla, right? ESG stands for what? Environmental, social, and I don't remember. Can you maybe look up what ESG stands for? It's like three things or whatever. And it's very strange. And it's going to have profound implications on the governance and governance. So basically you get ranked on whether or not you're doing social justice, you're doing this or that, and it's gonna punish other companies for not doing those things, giving government the much more power over the market. This has already been happening for, I mean, I brought this up on the podcast well over a year or two ago. Scary shit. And it's already started steering VC money. So in Silicon Valley, like if you didn't have these high score, like you're getting these companies that are getting money because they score so much higher than another company, even though someone might have a better idea. So it's already happening on the ground up. And it sounds like a great idea, but what it does is it gives government the ability to manipulate. Yes. And again, Tesla, electric car company, ranked lower than Chevron, which is an oil company, which is very, very strange. Makes zero sense whatsoever. By the way, a bipartisan bill, Democrats and Republicans sent a bill to stop ESG, got on Biden's desk, he vetoed it. So when shit like this happens and then I see all these articles at him, I'm like, I don't know, bro, it's weird. It's tough for me to trust a lot of what's out there these days. Speaking of which, I know Doug right there is like, please move on, I'm gonna stay here for a second. I will say this, again, if you take a step back and you look at politics like it's a sport, the Democrats are playing a brilliant game right now. Oh, I'm glad you stayed in production. I actually wanted to talk about this because somebody, when I did my questions, asked me about the whole Trump indictment, stuff like that. And I said, well, I said, this is Sal's theory. And I said, I tend not to argue with him when it comes to that stuff. It'd probably be like him arguing with me about sports. And so he's probably more likely right than me giving you an answer. And what I said was what I've heard you say already, which is that you think this whole thing with Trump being indicted and everything like that is actually a plan for the Democrats to help him actually run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which sounds crazy. The average person would go like, huh? No, so this is an old political strategy where you try to pick your opponent and you try to pick the opponent that you're more likely to win. Now you got to take a step back because this is also a risky game. It could also backfire. So you think to yourself, why would the Democrats want this to happen? They're in a bad position. So the crazy COVID policies are largely blamed on them. Economy, although it's not entirely a fault as bipartisan shenanigans, largely still blamed on the Democrats. Biden is incapable of winning. He is clearly in dementia. They know it. They know they're screwed with it. Well, doesn't he have the worst approval rating in history too? Yeah, and you just, you put them on stage and have them talk and it's just, it's going to be a complete nightmare. Inflation, largely getting blamed on the Democrats. I'm not saying it's their fault. This is total, both parties are. No, they're just, they're caught holding the bag. Right, so they're in this really bad position and we have this election coming up and so they're doing what's, they're throwing what's called like a Hail Mary, right? In sports, where you just throw the ball, you just crazy play because it's like your only chance. You hope for the best. And so they know, they feel like they have the playbook on beating Trump. But Trump was like, if you looked at his rankings in the Republican party, it wasn't very good. He was like a pariah there for a second. So I feel like what they're doing right now is they're resurrecting. And sure enough, all this attention on him has made him the leader among the Republicans. So, cause he has a base. Even over DeSantis right now. Over everybody. Well DeSantis isn't even in the conversation anymore. Cause he's got, he has such a crazy base. He will win 40% of the vote no matter what, but that's not enough to win. But they also know just his name immediately will deter people away from voting. Right. So, so he'll win the primary. They want him to win the primary because they know he'll lose the general. And they did this in the midterms. In the midterms, it was supposed to be this red wave and they supported pro-maga Republicans in their primaries, knowing they would beat them. And sure enough, it worked. It stopped this, what was supposed to be this, all the polls were showing. I like your answer to this. If DeSantis was to take on Tulsi Gabber and do like a bipartisan kind of push to get people to build bridges back to some reasonable, logical. That's what should happen. I would love to be the best for America, but nobody wants to do that. Yeah. Okay. So explain to me then why, to me that seems like such an obvious, brilliant strategy. Yeah. Yeah. Like in a time when we are the most divided ever and everybody, I don't care if you're left or right is pulling to be more in the center. Right. That's what's happened. And traditionally this is what happens. When we go extreme left, we go extreme right. It doesn't matter. So basically most people would consider themselves moderate and they want to come somewhat in the center. So after the most polarizing last four years we've ever had in our lifetime, why would somebody not partner up with the opposite side and make a run? Why do we still continue to play this Pepsi Coke game? Okay. I'll leave me comment on that in just a second. So I want to go back and explain a couple of things with the Trump thing. People are like, well, why would they indict him? How is that going to get him to win the primary? He gets a lots of attention. He's got a lot of support now. He looks like the underdog. The charges are so flimsy. It's not going to stick. He's not going to go to jail. Now I could be wrong. He could go to jail highly unlikely. If he goes to jail, I'm wrong. If he doesn't go to jail, I'm right. I think that's what's going to happen. All right. Why don't they do that? Because that would destroy their ability to divide people. If you combine forces and unified, well, now people are going to be more like, well, what are the issues? What's actually happening? What are the results? Like what's going on here? If they keep everybody separate, this two-party system, because if you ever seen a third party try to jump in, they both work team up on him. Oh yeah, they both team up. Yeah, they want to get him out. So that would be like the worst thing ever. They would get no money. They would get no support. Remember Tulsi Gabbard when she was running for the primaries, how she started to climb? And she was very balanced and logical. And she got destroyed by her own party. She was called a Russian spy. Yeah, a Russian spy even though she's like a veteran. Served our country heroically. It's like ridiculous. But this is, in my opinion, this is the Democrats' only chance because they're in a bad position. So they're like, get Trump up there. And in the general election, his ego's going to get him screwed, which is what happens. This is why you should have to pass a test of vote, bro. I swear to God. I know you don't like that because he's like, oh, it's like, who makes the test though? At least be a verified American citizen. As long as we allow the majority of people, which let's be honest, are not very capable to vote, this is what's going to happen. They're easily manipulated. Like if you don't have, we don't have some sort of baseline of like, okay, if you don't do this, produce that, pass this or something in order to vote, like I feel like we're always going to have a majority of people that really have no business voting because they're not even educated enough on the situation. Well, okay, so the founders knew this. That's why we're not a pure democracy. So pure democracy, majority rules were a constitutional republic. They knew this and so they put in rights that cannot be voted away by a simple majority vote. There's like a really complex process, but nothing's perfect, dude. You're right, like the majority of people, I mean, Rome proved this, it's like keep everybody distracted, bread and circuses, what do they call it? Keep them distracted. Well, I mean, that's what people- Give them free stuff. How is the NBA and NFL any different than the Coliseum? Same playbook. I mean, to me, that was highlighted more than ever in the last four years when you saw how much politics bled into sports. Look how much civil unrest we had when they took sports out. Yeah, it was the same. Oh yeah, they didn't have an outlet. Riots everywhere, bro. Yeah, where else are you gonna go? That's totally true. But I mean, look, they spend, they are masters. If you look at the political system, you're looking at a presidential campaign is billions of dollars alone and that's not even looking at the other money that nobody accounts for. They're masters, masters at getting people to feel and think a particular way, way smarter than anybody who votes. So if you think this is like, oh, I know kind of what's going on. Like, eh, probably not, you know? They're really, really good at what they do. It's like processed foods. Processed foods are engineered so well you think you're gonna eat them and not crave more food? Like you're not smarter than the scientists that created that food. These political parties and the people that fund them, they're so good at what they do. They'll run circles around them. This is not my wheelhouse. So it's like, I know I get criticized. I talk about it so I just don't, it doesn't make sense to me. I try and think of it like running a company and I can't imagine having a company of like thousands of people. And we, I allowed the, and let's say I'm the founder of the CEO of this company and I allowed my, you know, 900 of my, or all of my employees to have a vote and just decide on which way we steer this company. Them not knowing the PNLs, them not knowing the challenges and difficulties of creating, developing, hiring, finding, nothing. All they know is they're one, they're one little position that they do involved in it yet they get a say in where we go left or right. But that's just weird to me. One is bad, one is worse. If you ran the, if you ran the, our government, I mean, that's probably a good way to say it. Yeah. So it's not, it's not perfect. It's not great, but it's better than the alternative. I mean, if we had a fictitious, a fictitional like angel leader, like the heaven movies, which don't exist, like this guy, that's like super good. Like, I'll lead the country. You do it. You know, just, that's it. I got full power. One of the antichrists. They're all fine. Well, that's why I think the best answer is just, and where I think, I think most people agree. I know there's some people that are like, is small government, is smaller, is better, is less. Local. Less, yes. Local because local, you have way more influence. Like ask people how they feel about their fire department versus how they may feel about like a big federal system. Right? Like you have more influence over smaller, local government, then you would much larger big behemoths that, you know, like that's centrally run and trying to run the whole country. And then you get a lot of problems. Like what was the name of the book? I haven't talked about this book in a long time. It's a good reference. I know we're getting ready to do a shout out and I'm gonna do this book in addition to a person if we want to. Peter Schiff's book, and it's called, How Economies Grow and Why They Die. That's a good one. That's a good one. Such a good read. For someone who's like, you've not even really, like Katrina loved that book because of the way. It really breaks it down. Yeah, he tells it in a very simplistic story as if we were on an island and we had to literally build an economy from nothing. And where fish was the only commodity and that was for survival. And, you know, there was, I can't remember how many people he put on this fictitious island and like how would something like that grow into something. And then the challenges that you would have as a society and as a group, really through it. And it's really easy when you look at it, in my opinion, in that small of a level because where it gets difficult is when- It gets so big. It feels complicated. It gets complicated. And it's like, oh yeah, what will we do about that? It's like, yeah, then these people are gonna get hurt from that and everybody wants everyone to be happy. It's like, but when you see it in a group of a hundred and it's like, hey, we have to build a society from here. And it has to be successful. We have to have past this on the generations and we gotta all eat. We all gotta, like, what does that look like? And hard decisions have to be made and sacrifices have to be made in that in order for it to work. And so it really simplifies a very complex thing like understanding the economy. Oh, but here's something that's interesting. So Arnold Schwarzenegger has a podcast and it is not him. It is AI, it's his voice, AI. It's T1000. It's a robot, it's an AI machine. It's a generator. Yeah. Bro, this is, okay, we are now entering into an age where consumers are gonna have to pick organic, you know, I'm gonna use the word organic, organic content or non-organic content. Should we start that trend? Yes. How hard is it to be, to put like a little on our logo? We have organic on it. Like real organic conversations. Or just real humans. Let's start an acronym. Let's start an acronym that stands for like real organic humans. Yeah, okay. How do you know it's real? Yeah, R-O-H. R-O-H, R-O-H, R-O-H. Put like a little asterisk right next to our logo. It says R-O-H. Real organic humans. Yes. It's a podcast and it's a freaking video. You know it's embarrassing? It's outperforming us right now. Yeah. Dude. It's brand new. It's brand new. It's brand new. It's got a name on it. That sounds amazing. How do you know it's real humans? I mean, that's true. It's brand new. It's brand new. And so you get ranked different when you're brand new. I remember Nike was kicking her ass for like the first week. It was kind of a big thing around there. No one sees them no more either. Yeah. Dude, how weird is that though? Like are celebrities gonna start putting out their voice? Like, because I guess you can license your voice. Is that how it works? Yeah. I mean, like I told you before, like Will I Am, the guy from Black Eyed Peas, he literally digital copied himself, like in like scanned himself, all his mannerisms, how he talks. He like went through the whole weird like library of words and was just like, you know, reciting it all. So that way he could just, there I am. So they live in the digital world. You guys got to listen to the most recent All In podcast where they have a really good conversation around the future of AI. And what I always like when those guys disagree, right? And they all bring, and you'll really appreciate South because I know you're like, you're really enjoying FreeBurgs, David FreeBurg, the science nerd guy, his perspective and you align a lot with him economically. And he's talking about, you know, they'd go over this person who his job was replaced overnight by AI. And you know, they're like, oh, you know, we're gonna have all these jobs us and FreeBurg is always like the voice of reason when it comes to free market. And like, no, that's what everybody always thinks. And then it ends up innovating more and we're more productive. But then Chamath came in and said, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I don't also agree with you either because we have never seen anything like this ever. And I know that's what everyone said about the printing press and everything, but this is the first time ever, and he made it this point that I didn't think about. I thought was really interesting. Never have we had something that is a completely closed loop, meaning that all the innovations from the plow to the tractor to the printing press to the computer and so with that, still needs an input from a human. We are now generating things that is completely closed loop that does not require our ability at all whatsoever, just generating the power to usher it. That's right. He was talking about, and they use the example of what's the people that research, is it oncologists? Who does the cancer research? Oncologists. Oncologists, right? Well, they're just cancer doctors. Yeah, cancer doctors, right? So that we now have an AI tool that can like predicted accurately to by 0. something percent, which is better than any human could possibly do. And so what are they gonna be, what are they gonna be necessary for? So I thought that was a really interesting perspective that I hadn't thought about it because my initial reaction is probably similar to what yours is, Sal, which is, oh yeah, okay, inevitably a few people will lose their jobs and if you're slow to adopt it, you could be your job, but it's only gonna get us more productive, faster, just like the computer, just like the plow, just like all those barriers. Martian of error is gonna shrink substantially. That's right. And then we'll just get more jobs, more innovation, more time. Usually what happens, but. Usually what happens. The innovators are gonna be AI. So that is the part that Chamath is like, I don't think you're seeing this all the way through that this is something so different. It's the first time technology will be creative and can create. So then we're no longer the innovators. That's the issue. Now the promise is, we'll never have to work again. So it's like, oh, this is a future where AI does everything for us. That. It sounds utopia. Is not utopia. But no. You get a bunch, imagine right now. The people who don't like exercise don't think that all hard work is good. Those people, which is a majority. Think right now. Are gonna be miserable. Think of the average public right now. Now nobody works and everybody has free money. Like is that good or bad? For some people it'll be good, I'm sure. For a lot of people, it's gonna be so great. It'll be so boring. Well, look what happens when people retire. Oftentimes depression goes through the roof and all kinds of health issues go through. You remember when I shared on the podcast, this is like a long time ago too. It was like four years ago when we were here. And I told you that phone call when I called Katrina, I was all pissed off or frustrated with you guys. And I was driving home. Yeah. Remember that? It was like actually one of the most profound moments. You sound like the way he brings it up too. Yeah. By the time I was real mad at you guys. I mean that was the truth. My wife called me down. Yeah, it was probably Sal though. It was probably just pissed at Sal. Yeah, that's the thing. I shouldn't loop. I'm angry at everybody. I was trying to be nice and bring it to everybody. I know you were. I remember the original story. Oh, you do? Yeah, I do. So I was like I remember the fucking day actually. No, but I mean that was such a profound moment for me when, you know, because I was in the moment, right? We just walked out and we were all mad. She had just called me and I'm venting to her and stuff like that. And she had this long pause and, you know, I was like, hello, you're still there? And she's like, yeah, are you done? And I'm like, yeah, I'm done, you know? And I'm like, what do you think? And she's like, would you want it any other way? And I'm like, it really stopped me in my tracks and you're like, fuck, you're right. Yeah. Like how? She's your oracle. Yeah, she is my oracle for sure. Imagine Adam without Katrina. Oh my God, and I don't want you. Shut up, you know. I know you. That's what you did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why you said that. You were all right. That was a lot of fun. That's more fun. Let's be honest. That was a lot of fun. Less productive. Yeah. We're way further. Yeah, we are. We're a lot better. Dude, there was an article that was just written. There's an expert trying to read who the person who wrote this was. But oh, it was an AI researcher. His name is Dan Hendricks. He argued in a new paper, natural selection favors AIs over humans. And he basically said, this is his quote, we argue that natural selection creates incentives for AI agents to act against human interests. So there's two observations. Firstly, natural selection may be a dominant force in AI development. Secondly, evolution by natural selection tends to give rise to selfish behavior. So imagine AIs competing with each other. And one of them is doing things by the book. The other one is like, I'm gonna like do things and not get caught so I can win. And the other one says, well, I'm gonna do things this way. And eventually these things could evolve to become these really selfish terminator-like machines. And so he wrote this paper and he's like, hey guys, these things may evolve to be pretty messed up. It is a little scary that people like Elon Musk who obviously was pro. Yeah, he's smarter than most people, right? Yeah, is signing the petition for us to pump the brakes on all this stuff like that. That does make me a little nervous. Oh, and Bill Gates is totally like against the... Signing it. Weird. He's my favorite. The guy with all the farmland, right? Yeah, he's making all the best decisions of humanity. Fortress and castle out in the middle of nowhere. Why was he buying so much farmland? So who's your... Who's the shout-out today, is it? Yeah, I mean, I know we did the Peter Schiff book, but I mean, we could also give, because Brett Contreras was on the list that I don't think we'd give a formal shout-out to. Yeah, good trainer. Great trainer, great coach. I mean, God, the inventor of the hip thrust, right? I mean, that's what he says. I think it was... But he popularized it for sure. He's definitely... The godfather of it, if anything. Yes, he put into programming and really got people to pay attention to it. And you know, I love talking to him because you can tell, I mean, we always, we try and highlight these type of people. There's a difference between just having a PhD and being really smart and then having that and then also having trained hundreds or thousands of people. And you can tell by the way they talk and they answer things. It's always nuance. It's never this like, this study says this, therefore that. It's like, you know, well, this may indicate this and this is what we think we might know now. And like, you know, this might work good for these people and like the way he communicates and nuance, yet he's got this PhDs, he's brilliant. So he's a great follower and he is the ass man. So if you're a chick who's trying to build an ass, his content is for you. That's true. Check this out. Organifi is a company that makes organic plant-based supplements to improve health performance to help accelerate muscle building and fat loss. They have super food blends for energy, relaxation, immunity and more. Great company. We love working with them. In fact, we just helped them create a new pre-workout type supplement. It's pretty amazing. You gotta check this company out. We've been working with them for a long time because they have some of the best supplements on the market. Go to organifi.com forward slash mind pump, use the code mind pump and get 20% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Rachel from Massachusetts. Hi, Rachel. How can we help you? How are you? I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Thanks. So my question is basically why can I not put on a lot of muscle? I just feel like I'm just very much even killed no matter what I do. So just a little background on me. About two years ago, I was a seven day a week cross fitter. I would say probably under eating at that point, over training, running 20 something miles a week, not prioritizing sleep, one of the good stuff that you guys promote all the time. I ended up starting to work with a nutritionist, started to reverse dieting, lost a ton of weight, slimmed out with very, very lean. You could see every muscle, but totally kind of burning myself a little bit with the training. So fast forward about a year later, I've now been kind of living at maintenance for a while. I've done two mini cuts. Didn't really see that much progress from that, not as much as I thought I would, or how I felt when I was in the cut, I felt like I was starving to death. And now I'm back up to maintenance again and now kind of shifting where I wanna try to really put on muscle. And I just, I don't feel like I'm, I don't know, am I ever gonna be able to put on muscle? I just feel like I'm not. And I feel like I'm doing everything that you guys tell me to do. The only two things that I can think of is one, that I'm probably still doing too much and two, maybe I need to eat more, I don't know. Yeah, I think your intuition's right. I think you're right. If I read this correctly, you're following our aesthetic program now too, which is what typically people that are overturning. And doing CrossFit two days a week. Oh, oh shit. And you're doing CrossFit too? Oh yeah. So I do CrossFit two days a week and then the other, I, no, other four days I do a full body aesthetic, it's not your program but it's another shifting program. Yeah, too much. Okay, so two things. So let me, let's start here first. Your intuition is 100% correct. I'm going to assume you are a high achiever and many things in life. You probably bulldoze your, yeah, okay. So this is just your, this is the gear that you tend to run in. So it's gonna be hard for you to identify. But look, when you were doing before, when you were burning yourself out versus now, have you gained muscle since then? Yes. Okay, you're gonna gain a lot more muscle if you do what we're about to tell you. So you've already made one step in the right direction. That's right. You just haven't made enough steps in the right direction. So how important is the two days a week at CrossFit to you versus building muscle? Tell me which one's more important to you? I building muscle. Okay, stop CrossFit completely, eliminate it. I'm gonna put you on maps and a balik and I want you to bump your calories by about two to 300 calories a day. And you will see strength in muscle gains. You will for sure. Okay, I won't get fat. So I would probably slow the calories because you're about to reduce a significant amount of activity. So I wouldn't quite bump 300. I'd say 100 to 200 calories. But I mean the goal would be to do 300, 400 even, right? Yeah, that's fine. So I would just slowly, so eat what you're eating. So what I would do is right away transition into the training like we're saying and then like maybe the next week or two at 100 calories a day, see how your body responds then add another 100 calories a day. Both are right. I mean both are fine. Here's why I said what I said because I think your body's thirsty for calories, nutrients. And I think your body's gonna, what I think is gonna happen is you'll switch to maps and a balik, quick CrossFit, bump your calories and you're just gonna get stronger. You're just gonna boom, build some muscle. You could do what Adam said too if you're afraid of gaining body fat. There's nothing wrong with that. Still gain muscle and get stronger and you could do it that way as well. They're both, I think, totally fine. In fact, based off of what you just said, your fear of getting body fat, I think I'll side with Adam. Why don't you just keep your calories where they're at, cut the CrossFit, do maps and a balik and then the following week or two bump your calories a little bit. But you will build muscle doing that. Have you ever actually done a deload week? Sorry, can I hear you? Have you ever done a deload week before? With training? Yes. You have. I have a hard time with it because I don't want to do it. Right. But I do do it. How did you feel the next week after you were done? I'm still doing the CrossFit too, which is like... That's not a deload week. It's like I'm doing two separate things at the same time. So yes, I'm doing the deload week, but then in that week, I'm still going those two days to CrossFit, which is clearly not deload. Your intuition was right from the very jump. I mean, you and Sal hit it just right. You saw already some positive return on cutting back from what you were doing with the extreme dieting in seven days a week CrossFit or whatever it was. And now if you need to take the next step, which is you need to reduce even more and increase more calories. And the only reason, and Sal is actually right with the 300 calorie thing, the reason why I'm suggesting that is because I heard what you said. Yeah, he's right. Because you're concerned about that. And I know, and you're going to, if you add 300 calories, you're going to add carbs, you're going to add water, so you're going to get a little bit of weight and that psychologically tends to fuck somebody who you switched them like that. And so I would want to ease you in psychologically that we're okay. You're not, this is not body fat we're putting on. It's a little bit of water you've got in there right now. We're going to be building muscle. I don't care about the scale right now. I care about how you feel and I care about your strength. Like that's where I went and your calories, right? My goal for you, if you're a client of mine is, and I don't give a shit about the scale right now, I care about you getting stronger. You feeling good in there and us able to get our calories up. And if I'm able to do those three things, I'm moving the needle in the right direction. And then it's just about being consistent with heading in that direction. Rachel, how long have you been listening to our show? Not that long. My nutritionist actually told me on two guys and so maybe six months. Six months. But I was already kind of, my nutritionist, I listened to everything she tells me and she got me following all these great people on Instagram. And so I'm totally in a much better place than I was two years ago. Okay. How much do you trust your nutritionist on a scale of one to 10? 10, okay. This is what I'm going to ask you to do. Do what we say. She trusts us. You trust her. I'm saying this because this is going to be hard for you. Do exactly what we say. Count against the feelings you're going to have where you're going to want to jump out of your chair. You're going to pull your hair out. I got to do more. I got to do more. Just do what we say. And then once the results start to hit, it'll get a lot easier. So I'm going to send you maps and a Bollock. Go ahead and do the three day a week version. Do the trigger sessions on the off days. Keep your calories the same. Cut the CrossFit and just trust the process. You're going to want to, like I said, you're going to want to jump out of your chair because it's going to be so much less than what you're used to. You're probably used to burning yourself out. Just do it and watch what happens. Your strength is going to go through the roof and you're going to see muscle gains is what's going to happen. And if you get on the calories, so I have like really high protein. I'm almost at 170 grams. Is that appropriate or you think that's fine? That's fine. Yeah, that's great. I mean, unless you're having digestive issues, but it sounds like you're working with someone who's helping you with that. Yeah, keep it there. Yeah, yeah, no, you're fine. You're fine on that. If you get restless and it's really starting to become my go for a walk. Yeah. Go walk. Well, I sit all day, but I have a walking time. So I walk like my desk list and I walk on the treadmill quite a bit during the day. Awesome. Because that was that I that was fairly new in the last three months because I was like, I listened to your one of them that said people that go to the gym for one hour a day think that they're really active, but they're actually a sedentary and you asked them and they would tell you active, but they're not. Yeah. So I got the walking pad. Of course, the advice we give to the sedentary people who pay to work out actually triggers the fitness fanatic every time. Every time the wrong person. I would have heard the same thing and the same thing. But that's good though. Walking is good for you. So I'm super pro that. And if you find yourself because we're reducing you down to only three days of like real strength training and that and you get restless, go for a walk or go do yoga, do some recuperative stuff for your body. So you're saying that I should only left three days. That's it. That is correct. Maps and a block is only a three day a week core lifting right now it does have trigger sessions where you can do some band work, but that's another. The band work is low intensity. You're just getting a little pump. That's it. You're not. It's not a workout. It is not a workout. You should not sweat from it. You should not get sore from your healing. You're adapting. It's like a different. It's like walking for your muscles or for your arms. You guys only left three days a week. Oh, I have hit some of my highest lifts training that way. Yes. That doesn't mean we're sedentary days in between. And that doesn't mean we don't go to the gym five to seven days a week. You can still go to those areas, but you choose to do things. Sometimes it's a it's an hour walk on the treadmill. You're usually that intensive. Sometimes it's 45 minutes of mobility and stretching. So just learn to do other healthy things for you than pounding the weights. Pounding the weights is good for us, but you don't need more than three days a week of some hard. Especially from where you're at. Yes. Because it all depends on who I'm talking to. So I tell you what. Give this five weeks, come back, and I guarantee you you're going to be your mind will be blown. And that doesn't mean, by the way, that doesn't mean we can't get to a place where you have these phases that you do get to train five, six days a week. But where you're at now? But when you're when you're telling me that, hey, I'm stuck in a plateau. This is how I feel is where I'm at. I'm telling you, your intuition is right. You need to keep going in that direction. We need more calories. We need to bring down the intensity a little bit. Then as your body starts to recover, you start to build more muscle, the metabolism is higher. Now you're eating more calories. You literally have to change the change. It's that simple. And then we have all these other programs that you could cycle in and out. Some of them are five days. Some of them are three days or so. But this is the right one for you right now. OK. All right. All right, I'll give you a shot. I want you to keep us posted, too. Please circle back with us, OK? Email back in another 30, 60 days. Actually, let's put it in the forum. I'm going to put you in the forum, too, Rachel. Because I want to hear back from you. Yes. Please. All right, sounds good. You're out, Rachel. Thanks, guys. Appreciate your help. Thank you. All right. You know what I love is that the people have the intuition. Yeah. Like, am I doing too much? Don't listen to it. No, they don't want to. No, I think a lot. I mean, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if half the people that call in to us, I mean, if you've been listening for six months, they just want us to say it. Yeah, they want to hear it. They want to be confirmed. Come on, bro. Think about yourself. Or I'll think about myself. Nine out of 10 times, the things I really need to do, like I know, I just don't want to. Or is it like, but I'm the exception. Yeah. Maybe it's different for me, you know? She's going to like, she's going to build so much strength and muscle. She's going to see great results. I wish she was like, this is the kind of client. That's a tough cookie, though, you know? That's a tough client to convince. Well, the psychological part, right? Yeah. Which is the only reason why I argued with, not argued with you, but the only reason why challenge me. No, I know where you went. You're right. You're right. You were right that you want to get her calories up. And I would bump 300 right away, personally. But I also know that. If I was able to train her every week, part of me. Part of me in her ear, I would have done everything. I don't want to counter what you guys were saying, because it's totally on point. But like, you know, part of what we talk about with like, fasting, you know, it's like what you learn from that. And you're going to, you're going to, you're actually going to be fine. And also too, it helps you to look from an outside perspective of what your patterns are. And that was my point with the D-load. It's like, sometimes you just got to cut it all out and really assess like, what did this do the next week to me? She hasn't even gone through that yet. That was, I mean, brilliantly said, 100%. Very, very, very true. Our next caller is Michael from Arizona. What's happening, Michael? Hey guys, just start off with the obligatory. Thank you. I've been listening to you guys for about a year now. I really love your content. I listen to about every day. It's awesome. So thank you guys for that. Awesome. So my question is, so a little bit of background. I'm 19 years old. I'm from Arizona, brilliant college in Utah right now. And away about 190. Actually in December, I was running Maps Power Lift through a meet in February. The overwinter break, I ended up getting really sick and lost like 25 pounds. So that's going to end up happening. So since then, I've regained the weight and the strength and stuff. I'm pretty much back to where I was before I got sick. But I have someone else coming up. So starting in May, I'm serving a mission for my church for two years in Argentina. And so while I'm there, I will probably be walking, I'd say like 15 miles a day. I'll be walking everywhere. I won't have a lot of control over my nutrition. We will get fed by the people we're serving or teaching and stuff like that a lot. And even then, we have a small budget for food every week and stuff. So I won't be able to buy like protein and stuff like that. I don't know. They do eat a lot of beef down there though. So that'll be good. But yeah. And then so every morning, we'll get about 30 minutes, 30 to 45 minutes of exercise time. And so I've worked really hard to get to the point where I am today. And I know that with that, the circumstances I'm going to be in, there's no way I'm going to stay the size that I am right now. I've come to terms with that. But I wanted to know what was something you recommended that I could do with basically zero equipment. Like I won't have anything. I'll be moving probably every couple of months. And so I won't be able to take a whole lot with me. So I was thinking about taking some resistance band or something like that. But basically, I was just wondering with that 30 minutes, what's something I can do to minimize the loss of that lean body mass I've worked for? I know it's not going to all stay. And I know I'm definitely going to be smaller when I get back. But I was just wondering if you guys had any recommendations of things I could do to keep that on or mitigate the loss of it. You would be surprised how effective a daily workout can be. Would you be able to carry around a suspension trainer? It's not a lot. Resistance bands too, I think, is a great call. I might be able to, yeah. OK, I'm going to send you MAPS 15. MAPS 15 uses a suspension trainer. It's an everyday workout. I think that'll be perfect for you. We can also send you MAPS anywhere where you can use bands. And I think those two programs will give you enough for it. Because you said you're going to be gone for two years? Yeah, two years. Yeah, those two programs will give you enough variety throughout that two-year period where you're not going to need any equipment, except for the bands and the suspension trainer, to do what you need to do, for sure. Sweet. Can we, can we, can we, can we, can we? We kind of have something perfect for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to beta test something for us? Yeah, when you leave, when do you leave again? Uh, I'll start, I'll probably leave. So we do, like, it's called the Missionary Training Center and I'll go to Mexico, I think on May 22nd, I leave. So I'll be out of the country for two years. Is it live by then, Doug? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it should be live by then. Yeah, but this thing is going to be live when we... Yeah, but we won't tell the audience. We won't tell the audience. We're going to give you something. We're going to send you a secret program. Yeah, like, super secret program. Yeah, yeah, that's coming up next. This is the Roswell program. Yeah, let me know. It's perfect for what, for what, where you're going, what you're doing, so we'll get that over to you before you get over there. So for now, I think... So you'll have three programs you could cycle through. Are you in our forum, by the way? I'm not. Oh, okay, and obviously it'll be hard to get on social media and all that. Yeah, yeah. So I get that, but otherwise I would love to, you know, keep up, especially if you're testing this program, I'd love to follow up with you. Michael, you mind if I ask what things you'll be doing when you're out in some of these places? Sorry, what was that? Do you mind if I ask you what types of things you'll be doing when you're out in these places? You said you're on a mission. What kind of things will you be doing? So basically what we do is we just go, talk to whoever we can and try and share our message of the gospel of Jesus Christ and what we can offer them and try to bring them into that fold. You know, just share our message of love and peace through Christ. Yeah, good for you. A lot of service while we're down there. Good for you, buddy. Well, hopefully our programs help you out there. That'd be awesome. Yeah, thank you. You got it, man. All right, Mike, keep it up, man. All right, thank you. Yep. Nice, kid. You're gonna meet a 19-year-old that looks like they're 30. That was me when I was a kid. They got like that face, you know what I mean? Like, you look like you're, but you're not. You're obviously 19 years old. It's a compliment. People used to think I was 30 when I was 19 all the time. Just wise. I was the opposite. You always look like a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is finally starting to pay off a little. Yeah, no, not that we're older. That's useful. Everybody's like, son, you look like you're 50. What's he gonna stop? Anyway, people will be surprised at how much you can maintain with far less volume and far less intensity. And the studies will show it's like one-sixth, some studies are one-ninth. The volume will maintain. So it's especially in a situation like this when it's novel. Yeah, like if you do traditional strength training in a jammer at home with like barbells, dumbbells or that and then you have an extended period of time where you don't have access and you gotta go all suspension trainer or all body weight, I mean, you could potentially make gains because it's so novel. I mean, it's true. Yeah, and especially this young, it's not like he's hit his peak potential. He's still on the come-up right now. Oh yeah, that's true at his age. Yeah, I mean, one of us ain't gonna make gains on a two-month mission going to a suspension trainer, but I'd maintain decently that way. But I mean, at 19 years old, he's on the up and coming still of building muscle and building his physique. So even though I know he's worked hard to get where he's at right now because suspension training and body weight training is probably gonna be so novel to him, there's potential for him actually gaining. Now where it'll be hard is the nutrition, right? If he lacks protein significantly. Well, so Argentina is world-renowned for steak and beef. Like they supposedly have the best beef in steak in the world. Steak houses are great. So I think like the traditional dishes even out there will serve lots of beef because it's supposedly inexpensive. Yeah, if he eats a lot of beef and potatoes while he's out there and does suspension trainer and body weight stuff. Yeah, even more jacked. That would be a great testimony, right? It'd be great for that program launch. 19-year-old goes to Argentina, comes back jacked maps. Our next caller is Greg from Wisconsin. What's up, Greg? How can we help you? Hey guys, I appreciate you having me on. I just wanna give a big thank you to you guys. I started listening to you guys about a year ago. It was kind of a tough time for me. My dad was in the hospital. Yeah, diagnosed with cancer. So I spent a lot of drive time going to visit him. And that's kind of when I discovered you guys and you guys got me through that whole time. And again, when the effort he passed last April, you guys really helped me out and kind of distracting me and kind of keeping me on my come on pace for my fitness goal. So I just wanna say thank you guys for that and really appreciate everything you guys do. Thank you, bro. Yeah, man. Thanks. And then as far as my question goes, so a little bit of background on me. I am 39 years old, six, four, two, 20. I've always been pretty athletic, pretty decent shape. I grew up playing basketball through high school and some other sports as well. After that kind of got into just some pickup basketball, some volleyball. But the problem was I was never really a big leaper. I was vertically challenged to say the least. Adam, you probably appreciate this. I even tried those strength shoes way back in high school. I really did that too. Unfortunately, those didn't really do much for me. But I am turning 40 in January. And my goal is to be able to dunk comfortably by the time I turn 40. So my kids are getting into basketball right now. I've got a 10-year-old daughter, a seven-year-old son. And I wanna be able to show them how to work hard, work on their skills and kind of improve, kind of model that behavior and also just kind of show off, right? So being able to kind of set them up for success. So my question then kind of goes into the programming to try to reach that goal, right? So I'm looking to increase vertical probably six to eight inches. Just a little workout background on me. I did maps performance last spring, then aesthetic, then symmetry, finished up anabolic in January. And then right now I'm running performance again. I just started phase three. So just a little knowledge I have from you guys. I figured running performance first before getting any sort of vertical specific type workouts would probably be the best approach. So my question is, what does programming kind of look like? I would assume it's gonna be a lot of plyometrics. And then also from a nutrition standpoint, does it make sense to go kind of into a cut and lean out? So it sends easier to get myself off the ground, right? And then also, is it possible to maybe combine vertical jump programming with any sort of other skill work? I know I don't wanna do something that will kind of negate the vertical performance aspect of it. So like, could I also try to work on improving like my pull-up in conjunction with something in the vertical leap aspect? You're gonna get that with, so you're like a very similar body type. I'm six, three, I'm two, 30. I've actually, this has been on my mind getting back into basketball. Literally what I would do is I would run performance in a cut to do exactly what you're thinking, which is to lean out. You're gonna see strength go up in like pull-ups and body weight stuff like that and your ability to jump. So all that stuff. Strength to weight ratio. That's right, yeah. So even though you might not see, let's say your bench press go up or movements like that, your strength to weight ratio will go up. So the things like pull-ups and jumping will be more of a priority to you. So I'd run performance and that really is just to get me in a healthy position to train more like pure vertical stuff. And then I actually wouldn't, I wouldn't personally build that. I'd go to Paul Fabrits. I think he's the best in the business and he's got a vertical program. I would literally run his program right after I ran performance. And I will guarantee you, you will see your six to eight inches. You'll be setting your body up correctly by running performance with us and getting lean, getting like a good, well-balanced, mobile, strong, joint-supported type of deal. Your base of strength will be covered for sure. I think you have the right ideas in terms of like going into the programming is like I gotta build my overall body up as much as possible and like generate as much force. Cause really to be able to vertically jump and get that triple extension, you need to be able to master that summoning of more force. And so to Adam's point with that, like he probably has the best, very specific skill-based program where he's not only just gonna like work on, you know, plyometrics and things like that, but also really the skill of how to approach the hoop, of how to get that long enough stride, drop step, you know, all these different things and factors that will help to increase that, you know, sort of elastic launch that you're gonna get for your vertical jump. Are you following Paul already? Yeah, I remember I heard you mentioned him a couple of times. So yeah, I'm following him right now on Instagram, but I haven't gone into any of his programs or looked at what they tell. Yeah, go into his jump program. It's incredible. I know people personally that have gone through it. I've seen all those tests. He's a friend of ours. So I can't speak enough about him. I think him and our other friends, Max Marzo. We're not even affiliated, but it's just pure recommendation. And then if you run through his program, you find like some of those very specific skill-based drills that he has. You could always combine that in like your mobility days with performance, which, you know, I've always wanted to do that anyways with athletes and I kind of naturally do that based on their sport. We kind of dissect the sport in terms of like some of those very specific skills that you need. We can fine tune it and customize it a bit more that way, incorporate it on those mobility days. Perfectly said. And so to recap, that's exactly how I would do this personally. Maps, performance, I'd run Paul's jump program. Then I would take out at Paul's program what I felt gave me the biggest bang for my buck and then I would implement it into one of our map for like long-term, right? Like if you said you had goals, hey, I still want to be strong, still want to look good too. And so I want to, how do I combine keeping this great vert that I got now but then also kind of sculpting my body? That's what I would do is I would take the big rocks from his programming for his vert code. That's what I think it's called vert code. I think so. And I would take the big rocks from that after I've ran it through the way it is. So I'd run it true to the program and then I would parse out the things that, oh yeah, that really has helped me tremendously. And Justin's right. There's things that he'll break down the technique of you coming up to the hoop and just how you load yourself going into the jump. That could, like I've seen guys with no training just him showing technique on, Like he gained a few inches. Oh, like three, four inches just from, just instantly from his technique of doing it. So the guy's incredible, he's brilliant. His programming is on point. And then as far as like the nutrition, it would be, like I said, cutting during performance to kind of lean out and lose some body fat. So you're leaner. And then I would just, yeah, I would actually eat for performance after that, you know, eat balance, eat, be fed, make good choices as long as you feel like you're in a lean up place. If you're six, four, two, you said two, 20, I don't think you're too far off of being pretty lean. Okay. Yeah. That was awesome. Yeah, I followed this stuff for a while and yeah, some of it looks pretty intense. Hopefully I can find all the, you know, kind of equipment to do that, but. No, his vert code is like he does all kinds of stuff to attract people on Instagram, but the vert code is a lot more, I don't know, fundamental or basic and you'll be able to do everything. You won't need anything crazy. Okay, perfect. Yeah. All right, Greg. I appreciate it guys. You got it. Yeah, keep us posted. I want to see a dunk video. Yeah. Yeah, I plan on trying to take some video and be able to showcase some of my buddies. It'll inspire me because I've been saying that I'm going to do it forever. Everybody keeps asking me and I'm like I keep dragging my feet. So maybe I just need to. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. You just listened to what? I just listened to the episode of where you were talking about at that birthday party grab and that bar. Oh, I forgot that. Did you post that video with that, Andrew? Did you post it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The highlight of it. Yeah, so I was. Big answer. Big answer. Dad flex right there, dude. Yeah, I want to make sure I'm back dad and not the other ones. Yeah, there you go. All right. You're already doing fine, bro. You're doing good. Guys our ages, they don't, they do terrible. They're doing terrible. You're already on the couch. Yeah, keep us posted though. I'd love to hear, Greg, how the journey goes. Yeah, we'll do it. All right, man. All right. I appreciate it, guys. Yeah, yeah. That was super weird. I just didn't really say anything. Was that her feet? Yeah. He's like, not having anything to add. You know what, I was going to ask you guys, I was going to wait till we were done, to ask you guys from what I understand from the biomechanics of jumping in basketball, just from watching Paul's videos. I do watch some of his videos. Do you guys think in some cases, a unilateral training program like Symmetry would help somebody? Yes. Because it's, because one thing that I saw from watching his videos, like I don't really have much, I mean, I play basketball here and there's a kid, but I didn't play like you guys, not even close, is that you launch off one leg. It's a one legged jump. Most of the time, yes. Most of the time, yes. So I was, as he was talking, I want to ask you guys, like I wonder if Symmetry for sometimes, especially for someone who's been training a long time, might have that right-to-left discrepancy. Yeah, I would say, if you were like, let's say I wasn't going to recommend like Paul, I would definitely do performance and Symmetry. The combination of the unilateral work with the performance aspect of MAPS Performance would give him a really solid foundation. And he may, and if he's just playing basketball, he might see. Well, and here's the thing, the more acceleration you're trying to apply, which is like, you know, you're trying to generate more force, you have to be able to control that. Yeah. And so like something like Symmetry, you're going to be able to stabilize yourself more effectively, which then helps improve your technique overall. No, no, no, no, 100% right. So to explain just differently with what Justin just said, if you've ever, if you guys ever seen those videos where there's like, I don't know what it's called, I think it's called a water saw, where they shoot a stream of water and they can cut through anything. Yeah. The reason why that's so powerful is because the hole is so small and there's so much pressure behind it, pointing and directing all the energy into one point. So if you made that a big hole, you'd still shoot a lot of water, but it would have very little. So what Justin said about controlling force, if you have a lot of leaks in your force, you generate force, but it leaks, so you're not going anywhere. But if you can control it and focus it on the point that you want, now you're way more powerful. Now there's a lot of power. Which also speaks to what he breaks down a lot, which is the technique of the going into the job. That's right. I mean, I've literally seen videos where he's getting the right throw shoes, this guy gets six inches, dude. Yeah. Like just by showing him how to load and the better technique. When you start getting commissioned, though, we recommend another one. I know, I got to call them up. We'll get them on the phone here. I got to call them up, I'll get them up. Our next caller is Sarah from California. Sarah, what's happening? How can we help you? Hi, you guys. Such an honor to be here. I'm like literally such a huge fan. Definitely changed my life listening to you guys, so kudos to all three of you. Thank you. Awesome. You don't forget that it was four of us. I just had a question about deload weeks and like soreness. I just finished maps, advanced anabolic phase one, and then I did a deload week. I have never structured a deload week in my life ever, which is my fault. But that was my first time actually like following a program and then doing a deload week within like the first day and like doing like a body weight exercise. I was like abnormally sore. So I just didn't know if like being abnormally sore on a deload week is like normal, and then I also experienced like a little bit of hip flexor pain. So I just didn't know if that was like something to expect or if that was normal, if I was doing something wrong. No, so OK. So it's normal to come back from a deload week and the first week of traditional workouts makes you more sore. It is not normal to feel more sore during the deload week. Is that what you're saying? That on the deload week you felt more sore? OK. That's because it was such a novel movement then. Either novel, like it's exercises you're not used to or the intensity was too high. I want you to approach the deload week like you're just going to the gym and just going through some movements and that's it. It's not a workout. That's that's how I want you to approach the deload week. It's like I'm just showing up and just kind of moving my body. I'm not going to feel like I'm working out. I'm just moving through different exercises and that's it. A mobility day would have been I mean like a mass performance mobility days would be it sounds like better for you. What exercise did that to you? Yeah. So the first day I just like or I guess like day one of deload week. I just like walked didn't do anything crazy. And then the second day I just did like body weight lunges. I think that was like what it was program like body weight lunges, some push ups, maybe some stretches. The body weight lunges, which is weird because I used to do a lot and I still implement body weight lunges. But for some reason, like that deload week, like I did the body weight lunges and I was like, oh my gosh, like this hurts more than normal. OK, I got something for you. OK, this was after phase one. Yeah. Did you get what were your strength games like in phase one before you got to the deload week? They were like it was pretty significant because this is like my first time like really following like a structured program. I did aesthetics, but I kind of just went through it loosely because I just like didn't know what to expect. And then once I did aesthetics, maps, advanced anabolic release. And I was like, all right, yeah, I'm going to explain what happened here because this this this is interesting. But now I think I know what happened. OK, so you had significant strength gains after phase one, which is expected. OK, the program produces very rapid strength gains. Then you went to the deload week and you did an exercise that you've done before many times before a body weight lunch. But your strength is much higher now. So it feels like low intensity is actually super novel to your body. You're probably doing more and generating more force than you did before. It's a novel exercise. Now you get sore. OK, so you need to approach the deload weeks like I'm just going through movements and really like with gloves. Like I'm just taking it super, super easy because when you make those big strength gains, going back to other exercises you haven't done before, you're going to be doing them with more force and more reps. Yeah, you haven't done a while. You're going to be doing more force and more reps than you did before. And even though it feels easy, it's still super novel to the body. I've experienced that myself, by the way. Well, plus you're in a split stance situation with that. You're generating so much force in a bilateral position. And then now going into that is going to be a different situation for your body to react to and respond and try and control and stabilize. And so having a having stronger legs going into that as well, maybe producing more force in that, but haven't really like accounted for the stabilizing effect of that. Like that might have also like exaggerated a bit. Yeah, which is also why she probably feels in her hip flexor so much. Exactly. So yeah, I would like so I take the movements and and actually almost make them like a like the lunge, more like a mobility thing where you actually do like a stride and actually kind of stay in the position, drive the knee over, like you're doing a yoga, squeeze your, squeeze your heart right now. Yeah. And then go to the next stride, stretch it out, activate the glutes, drive the knee forward. So I would make these like long, slow, like think of it like recovery, not like workout, like, OK, I'm here to like speed up recovery and make my muscles feel good, not workout. Think of it that way. Do you have do you have maps performance by chance? I do not. I'm going to I'm going to have Doug send that to you. I know where you're going. And it's OK to do this for your deload week is to take that and do mobility sessions. So in so maps, performance is obviously a whole program in itself. But what we have in there is on your off your non foundational days, we have what we call mobility days. And they're basically we say 40 minutes to about 40, 40, 45 minutes. Do you like two of them? Yeah. Deload week and and do those in there. I think in your deload week, if if you continue to feel this, if maybe the advice that we're giving right now and you're still feeling really sore from the deload week, maybe do something that's more programmed mobility for you and see if that eliminates that and then pay attention to how you feel. By the way, Sarah, you could totally if you're following maps and a bulk advanced, you could totally do nothing right on the deload weeks, which is why just walk. You can literally do nothing and just walk and you would get you it would be perfectly fine. OK, and then I know you answered this like a few weeks ago, but for like deload weeks and like eating the same, like specifically for maps and a bulk advanced, like you would just stay like even because I'm not really like cutting. I'm not really bulking like I'm just kind of like here I am. I'm trying to like get back in tune with like my hunger queues after tracking for so long. So would you just say like just like stay like eating the same, doing the same, all that that's right. Keep it the same, keep it the same. And you're going to look after you come out of the deload week, you're going to trip out when you get to phase two. You're going to be like, whoa, I feel like this is pretty crazy. Yeah, phase two has already been super exciting. I'm like the halfway through the first week and I'm like already like loving it. I think the deload week like mentally like made me miss the gym and lifting heavy. So now I'm like, all right, I'm ready to get back at it. Are you getting close to hitting PRs and some of your lifts? Yeah, I am. I've already phase one. I already hit a PR, which was super exciting. I like literally looked around the gym to see if anyone saw that. You know, I was like, oh my gosh, good job. Very good. Awesome. Yeah, thanks for calling in, sir. Yeah, you got it, man. Yeah, thank you guys. You got it. I'm excited that we're now at the point where when we launched maps in a bulk advance, we're going to get feedback like this. Yeah. And that's why, you know, and again, I have to caution people with it. The strength gains come so fast and furious with that program. You got to be really serious about the deload weeks and very serious about your form. Because when I followed it. It's addictive, isn't it? Oh man, it was like, oh, keep going. So now that's great. No, it's a good conversation to have because the truth is exactly what you said, right? All the research supports that you could take a week off and you're going to have no exercise. No, it's the mental part. That's why he said, it's like they put, I put a workout in there. Yeah. And then, and that's why too. I'm like, hey, there's nothing wrong with you just doing mobility all that week. You know what I'm saying? Go do, just do mobility work for that week. So you're busy still, but you're not doing anything strenuous or strength training wise. And then watch what happens the next week after that. That's awesome. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com. Check out all the free stuff. We give you all kinds of free things at that site. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump DeStefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Today, we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.