 a little bit about yourself and what you do? Sure, my name is Aris Lou Wilson. I'm a member of the Okanagan and Sequoia Informations from the interior of BC and I am a practicing lawyer. How did you start off in your career in law? What made you decide that field? I initially actually set out to become a doctor and so I was in my first year of undergraduate studies in the Okanagan and I took a political science course and so for my term paper I had to write on the constitution, so something, some aspect of the constitution, so of course I chose section 35 and from there that really ignited my interest in protecting and advancing indigenous issues particularly from a legal context, so that's how it all began was one term paper when I was 18 years old. And when did you first meet Louise Mandel? I met Louise Mandel in July of 2000. And the reason why I can remember this quite clearly is because it was the summer before I entered law school and so I was working at the Okanagan Nation Alliance at the time as a research assistant as a summer student and it just, she was coming up for the annual General Assembly at the ONA and it was taking place at Spuckman which is lower Nicola Band and it's about an hour and a half from Kamloops and somebody had to go and pick up Louise Mandel and of course being the bright-eyed, bushy-tailed law school first year that I was at the time, I jumped up the chance because I knew who Louise Mandel was and so that's how I first met her. I picked her up from Kamloops and spent an hour and a half driving her to the ONA annual General Assembly and I remember by the end of that, by the end of that car trip, she had said, I want to see your application on my desk when you're ready to article and from there that was the one place that I had set my hopes on. There was no other firm that I had ever, you know, given any consideration other than Mandel Pinder because Louise was just, you know, such a fantastic lawyer that I really wanted to learn from. So that's when I first met her. What was your experience being an Articling student for her? My experience being an Articling student was of course a wonderful introduction to the legal profession but I think in generally the legal profession, it's a shock to the system because law school doesn't really prepare you for it. Articling is really the art of teaching the students how to be lawyers and so from that regard it was a wonderful opportunity to learn from Louise in such a unusual aspect. She was working on a file for my community and so I had the ability to work, you know, on a legal matter with Louise for my community and that really was the reason why I chose to become a lawyer in the first place was to go home and help my nation, help my community, you know, give back and so I think it was just such a wonderful opportunity to have, you know, an unusual experience. I didn't have the typical Articling student experience. I recall one time being, you know, in the in a back mountain area doing trail mapping with elders and a legal team, Ardith Wacom and Haley Bruce were part of that and it was under the guidance of Mandel Pinder, Louise's firm and here I am and it's kind of a funny story but during that year we, Ardith and I actually were chased by a bear or well we had stumbled across a bear on the trail and we were close enough to smell it and to hear it grow and therefore we're running up the hill. So when you say, you know, what was my Articling experience like very unconventional, very meaningful and the way that I look back on it is that I had the opportunity to learn from the best. One thing about my relationship with Louise, I think that makes it special is I was the last Articling student to work with her and so for me I'm so thankful that I had the opportunity before she retired and to me that knowledge and that experiences all that more special because of that. Does it, is there a different experience that you have working with like your own band, your own nation versus working for other ones? Can you talk a little bit about? I don't necessarily think that there is a huge distinction. I entered the profession of law because I wanted to advance Indigenous legal issues and wherever I have the opportunity to help a nation or a community it's very fulfilling but for me there is a personal, a very personal moment when I have the ability to work for my community and my nation because as I grew up I, you know, I come from a very political family, a very opinionated family of that too, where I was always taught to, you know, not only defend our, our title and rights but also to be mindful of those generations to come and that's my responsibility as, as a, as Seelix woman today is, you know, caretaking, you know, our land and our rights and the resources attached to that, that stewardship responsibility for those generations so for when I have the ability to work on a case or a file that includes my community I feel like I'm fulfilling that larger responsibility and not me as a lawyer but me as an Indigenous person and I think that's the difference when, you know, you do work for your own community. During your time as an artisan student for Louise what cases did you work on? Like I said I did work on, the one that sticks out in particular is the Browns Creek Litigation where my, this is the one I was referring to with my community that we were trying to seek an injunction to, to stop logging in the watershed right behind my community. It provides the, the clean drinking water for my reserve and so at that time that is, you know, that, that is always the, the, the, the file that stands out the most but as I was artis playing I did a variety of issues anywhere from taxation to, oh goodness, economic development, environmental law and of course, you know, always with the focus on the underlying issues of Indigenous title. Is Aboriginal law unique in the sense that it covers so many different aspects of like economy, taxation versus other types of law or? Well I think the, the difference between Aboriginal law and other areas of law is that it's highly specialized and it's ever-evolving. So 30, 30 to 40 years ago if a lawyer said I practice in the area of Aboriginal law I don't think a lot of people would necessarily understand what that meant and Aboriginal law it's, it's growing you know when there, there's so many, I guess it's almost a misnomer or it's, it's too broad when you say you practice Aboriginal law there you know average or people who practice in Aboriginal law can do environmental law, they can do economic development which includes like corporate governance. So there really are you know very distinct sub areas of Aboriginal law and so yeah it's, it's hard to just characterize it as a broad general statement or a broad area of law. Can you talk a little bit more about how maybe you've noticed Aboriginal law change over the years in terms of maybe write some title or? The way that I gave some thought to this and this is where I had to dig deep back into the recesses of how has it changed since I first started studying law which was more years than I care to admit now but for about the last 14, 15 years when I first entered law school in 2000 the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous people was a work in progress and I think it had been a work in progress for upwards of 22 years and so I entered at a time where you know Delgamook was still fairly new it had about three to four years of being released and people were still trying to figure out what it meant or how to satisfy that legal test so since then I've seen the UN declaration or the UN drip you know become ratified and that has set an international standard you know to to hold governments accountable for decisions that they make that impact indigenous rights and I've seen the law of consultation and accommodation come down decisions from the Supreme Court of Canada you know creating obligations on federal on the federal government to you know meaningfully consult with First Nations on decisions that that impact their their title and rights interests and so I I've actually seen that change you know when I first came in I was um we didn't have as many tools like through you know legislative tools or case law tools even to to uh to work with so as we go forward you know and there has been some changes about probably not enough what are some changes that in your opinion you'd like to see in the next couple years or uh the just reconciliation of the digital settlement rights issues in BC but um I think that that's one that has been there for for more than a generation or two and I think at the end of the day I think that's probably the motivating factor for for most people who go into practicing Aboriginal law is that these issues still exist and and how do we reconcile you know indigenous legal systems with the the common law you know so yeah that's what I would ultimately like to see or I guess that's what motivates me you know to get up every day and do what I do have you seen some improvements in terms of the Canadian government acknowledging different indigenous practices in terms of law and the legal system um not not as much as as I think would be appropriate but I don't think that is you know I don't think that's all that's surprising that you know the the federal especially a conservative government you know is is not going to to welcome you know indigenous legal traditions with open arms because it undermines their you know their Eurocentric approaches and especially in in BC where we have uh you know very limited treaties it becomes a real issue you know I think at the end of the day it would um reconciliation as a process is is a lot more complicated than just from a legal lens um it it seems on you know on the surface that perhaps it is achievable but it starts to displace you know systems that have been built to undermine indeed indigenous title and rights interests our legal traditions our knowledge you know all of that stuff so it's um yeah so I guess that's not a necessarily easy answer but that's the answer from my perspective and then to go back to talking a little bit more about Louise from your point of view how has her career kind of helped in that process of reconciliation Louise and her like contributions you know I was again having a hard time trying to summarize that how do you summarize you know the impact the Beatles have on rock and roll you know or this is kind of from a legal perspective this is challenging you know and and it all from my understanding is that it all happened you know very circumstantial how Louise entered Aboriginal law um but I think Louise's greatest contribution is the the creativity that she brings you know um a thinking outside of the box she she weaves in you know um an understanding of our legal traditions and she's able to transform that into an argument that is persuasive to the courts that the courts can understand and can appreciate and I think that is um it's a gift uh it's like storytelling not everybody's a good storyteller and not everybody can be you know a litigator you know there's lots of lawyers out there but very few um actual you know litigators barristers the ones that are in the Supreme Court of Canada arguing passionately you know and that's what she is um she has that gift and I think that's been her greatest contribution you know especially in a time where there were so few lawyers willing to stand up and talk about Indigenous legal issues you know in the Canadians uh justice system it was a very unpopular you know um unpopular topic I think you know given the racism at the time and whatnot that that made it all the more special she you know she brought those gifts and and through uh through those her passion for the law and these issues I think that has been her her greatest you know um contribution to the legal profession and and to our causes. Is there a particular story or case that comes to mind when you think of the passion that Louis has? Well you know I wish I had been a fly on the wall you know during the hearings of of Haida and Taku you know uh but I wasn't with uh Louise at the time and in so my experience always will be watching Louise Mandel argue you know um at the courthouse downtown um with on behalf of my community and for me just to sit next to her you know and and earning the right really to sit at the table next to her uh when you enter in a courtroom there is a seating gallery and then there's a line with gates you know and these gates are are what is called the bar you know that's where uh well the bar is really where where the the lawyers have the right to be and the public normally sits behind and for me it was a very a very long road to get there and so for me in that one moment where I got to cross threshold from just being you know an everyday citizen to having the right to sit next to Louise Mandel as she argued you know uh this wonderful legal argument that I had the ability to work on with her that was special that was significant that was that one you know moment that special moment and in my you know career beginning of thinking this is what I've worked a good portion of my life to achieve you know and and that was that inspirational moment where you know I just I I just soaked it in you know every small detail and and I loved it you know that's one that I'll I'll carry with me for the rest of my life was that your first time in the courtroom as like a lawyer and going no um it was my first time in the courtroom on Aboriginal issues so I had been you know um at provincial court with the UBC First Nations legal clinic on you know smaller smaller proceedings but that was that first I you know honestly I don't think many article students get that experience going with your hero to you know to court to argue on behalf of your community it's almost magical like you know in in well from an article students perspective but it was uh it was like the the the clouds had parted in the angels sang so to speak but it it was pretty special to me yeah what was the first time that you yourself were the person you know standing up and arguing for Aboriginal rights and title do you remember when was the first time I was about 22 years old um I had walked into the UBC First Nations legal clinic I have two other family members who went through a UBC law and absolutely told me you must do the legal clinic it is a wonderful life you know a life-changing experience and essentially what it is in a 22nd summary is a legal clinic that runs at the downtown east side helping Aboriginal clients with their their legal issues so sometimes these clients may not have any other means of accessing legal representation and so um walking in it's it's from the moment you walk into to the the legal clinic it's kind of flying by the seat of your pants you know you you have some training and you're obviously over you know you're you're supervised by a practicing lawyer but all of a sudden you're running trials and you know you're hearing you're doing these these you know uh these appearances in 101 and if you ever have the chance to go to the provincial court down at 222 Main Street it is an absolute people are coming people are going it's it's a crazy center you know a very busy hub and so here I am at about 22 years old with them you know first year law you know training and then all of a sudden I'm told okay so you have um 11 trials throughout you know your time here at the clinic and I was like what right so really there's no easy way to gracefully enter into the courtroom you know uh but the first time I remember forgetting you know and I was actually told how to introduce myself there's a script you know you need to spell or say your last name spell it out initial r you know and then say that you're an article student for so and so and I got to the the the bench and the judges looking at me waiting for me to to start my spiel and I'm frozen and I'm like it was one of those moments that you only expect that really exist on tv but I forgot my own name and what I was supposed to say and luckily I had the foresight to write down what I needed to say so I looked down after like one of those really awkward like prolonged moments where the judge is looking at me going okay I'm like oh that's right this is where I say something I tell them who I am and and that is always you know that that blazing moment of of my you know entry into into the courtroom not such a proud moment but always one that I'll remember yeah are there some things that even now when you're practicing a lot of it stand out from your years as an art thing student your years in law school that are kind of like good reminders of like how to practice law or like kind of teachable moments that come up for you from way back when teachable moments right now you know I'm not quite sure to be perfectly honest I have to sit here and think about it teachable moments you know I think the one thing that I I've learned throughout my art of clean years throughout you know my three years of practice so far is to expect the unexpected you know if something is going to go sideways or has a chance of going sideways it probably will you know and and that that really is is what I've learned and no matter how much time that you think you can a lot to being prepared there's always something that pops up you know the legal profession is very challenging you know in in terms of how lawyers perform how we manage our time and and how much we have to give to our files we give a lot of ourselves and I find with knowing that you know art of clean really taught me that it's it's you know but you do it for the nobility of the cause because you believe in it you know I I know that a certain percentage of lawyers enter the profession because it is you know it's a comfortable profession it there's very few stories of lawyers being unsuccessful so for whatever motivators but you know there is a certain nobility in the legal profession because at the end of the day you're you're you know working towards the the greater goals of protecting democracy and you know making sure that the legal system everybody benefits or everybody their rights to a fair trial are protected so you know there there is a certain beauty to the profession itself that that lends you know I think the inspiration for lawyers to do what they do on for you know decades at a time I mean I have no doubt I will be a practicing lawyer for the rest of my life not because of you know the the financial gain but because I believe in in you know the the achievement of system so I think I kind of wandered off on that question a little bit but anyways sorry teachable moments I don't know that I could just say well if you do x and y you know you'll you'll be fine in practice practice will throw you you know lots of curveballs but it keeps it interesting so what is one of your favorite memories of louise my favorite memories I mean other than standing next to her you know as she she argued the law on behalf of my community I actually remember my favorite time with her was sitting in a garden with louise we were in on one of the islands San Juan islands or you know the ones between here in the island and we were at a Mandelpinder retreat and it was the you know the day couldn't have been more perfect sitting in a garden talking with you know your your mentor your teacher your hero you know and just talking about the reasons why you know we choose law you know and those deeply personal moments of you know law can be you know exciting triumphant frustrating you know very tiresome it can provide a whole gamut of feelings you know inspiration and and sometimes I think as a lawyer we you know throughout our our years of practice we have to dig deep and you know and find that inspiration and so hearing from a lawyer who you know has walked a beautiful path in her career you know what kept her inspired what kept her going you know those are the things a young lawyer wants to hear from an experienced lawyer and and to me you you know just seeing okay so I'm not so alone in my thoughts or my feelings I do struggle for inspiration I think as anybody would in in a challenging profession but that always stood out as the the most favorite moment of mine with Louise because it was a personal one of of a human being talking to another human being you know and yeah that would have to be it okay talk a little bit about your starting office marketing student and then kind of how your career's developed over years starting off as an articling student uh well I was at the union for seven years and then I jumped right into articling and it was wonderful it was at Mandelpinder which is you know the one place I always wanted to to go and do my articles and then it was a really challenging year that year not because of the content of the articling experience itself but I had a profound loss that year and it was challenging at some points I didn't know that it you know it would have gone or whether I would have succeeded but my grandparents both died the same day on Aboriginal Day that summer when I was finishing my article so I was spending a lot of time going back and forth to be with my grandparents because they were both quite ill and then the unexpected deaths of both of them on the same day kind of threw everything for a loop so at that time I was really questioning you know um if I was doing the right thing you know I was articling and meeting those articling requirements but my grandparents were ill and so trying to balance the family along with the professional obligations was a tough one um but I think in the end when I look back at it now it all happened a certain way because you know some strange way those circumstances at the time provided me the strength to complete and you know unfortunately they had passed before I was able to take my oath as a lawyer that year but I did it and again the stars align in these really strange ways but I was very close with my grandfather and my grandfather's birthday was September 15th and so I moved you know made all of the efforts that I could to make sure that I took my lawyer's oath on September 15th which happened to be the first day of the union's annual general assembly and so you know the the stars align in in funny moments is that he couldn't be there but I became a lawyer on his birthday you know um in in and I don't think that could be any more of an appropriate setting than you know um in front of of the chiefs that provided encouragement um to the organization that that taught me you know um so much about indigenous issues and and the advancement of of our rights so it kind of you know it came to a very unconventional start but it had a beautiful moment so that that was really a transition point for me was September 15th 2010 and then you know I did a really unconventional thing I I left Vancouver you know and I most people 99% of first-year lawyers tend to go to firms within you know the lower mainland or at least remain and I decided to kind of you know um throw caution to the wind I was going home I was going home um I promptly you know informed everybody said okay I'm done I'm a lawyer I'm going home to work with my community and they were like well who are you going to work with well you know what I was like I don't know I'm gonna figure it out once I get there and so I got rid of everything here in Vancouver packed up my car and went home how I was going to establish the the legal practice I don't know who my clients were going to be I don't know I know nothing about practice management but I'm going to figure out as I go along and so that's what happened it's taken me from you know from BC to living in Winnipeg for four months and working on a file there you know and all of a sudden I'm you know a year or two later I'm you know chairing international university symposiums in the United States to talk about international water treaties so uh conventional definitely not um but it's been very exciting um it never stays the same uh you know and I've had to learn a lot there's a huge learning curve to taking a risk of going out on your own you know and it's certainly not for everybody it has it's unique set of challenges but at the same time I've I've had a variety of experiences that I think a lot of my counterparts who are you know third-year calls as lawyers don't necessarily have um what's the most challenging work in Aboriginal law for you some of the most challenging work I think uh you know I think the area itself is challenging because the you know passion and nobility of the cause are one thing I've worked with indigenous organizations clients people for a majority of my life um but I also have to interact with the federal and provincial governments I have to interact with you know a judiciary who may not be as um you know this area of dealing with you know bureaucrats governmental counterparts that's the challenging part of it is that you know on one hand you're armed with uh the the tools of the trade you know decisions um that advance our legal arguments but you're also trying to have those moments of of connecting or explaining to the federal government why they have an obligation and it's not necessarily the easiest job in the world to try to change an entire system or change how a majority of Canadian society um you know has an opinion on on Aboriginal issues you know the the more knowledge people have the easier it is but um sometimes you can work with people from a certain generation that you know it wasn't that long ago that uh uh First Nations people couldn't vote or we couldn't believe you know the the reserve so you know expecting Canadian society to catch up and and um and understand and appreciate you know the the decisions or those legal victories that we have and how you apply you know um meaningful consultation and accommodation that is probably got to be the most challenging aspect of the Aboriginal law is the the the changing of or you know trying to um assist in a paradigm shift having people understand from you know um I guess that's really what it is is reconciliation and what I am describing is reconciliation of those who that's the challenging part in what I do you know I I love working on the issues that I do but it's when I'm interfacing with you know the larger Canadian society or the federal government so the provincial governments that want to you know um deny the existence of of title and rights or you know a constitutional obligation to consult and you know possibly accommodate that's the the strong pushback and it's continuously an uphill battle so yeah that'd be the hardest part of it all but there's some things that Louise taught you about some of that negotiation you know I am a big big uh I'm a I learned by observation and so even when Louise didn't consciously tell me Rosalie you need to do x y and z I learned by watching her for many years um Louise you know was not just a lawyer that I had the privilege of working with as an article student I learned from Louise for many years before that you know as my time here at the union um and the most important thing she ever told me I was having you know a a bit of a anxious moment we'll call it and she just she she looked at me with that smile that she has and she has a very calming presence and she told me that you know ground chief steward phillip had taught her this and it was very important that I get it right just breathe and um and sometimes that is the only thing that you can do in a moment where you know things seem to you know having that snowball effect of just getting bigger and bigger and bigger is that sometimes all you can do in the moment is is just breathe you know and and collect yourself and things are they're going to still continue to move forward you know but you just need to stop for that moment you know and just be in the moment itself and I cannot tell you how many times I've found myself just recalling that important teaching that she gave me of just breathe it'll be all right and and uh yeah that that's always what I remember the most as the greatest lesson she gave me so what is your favorite memory of Louise my favorite memory there there's many memories that I remember Louise having a presence but the one that sticks at the most actually really isn't in any legal setting we weren't at a firm we weren't at a meeting we were sitting in a garden um at the Mandelpinder retreat and it was my favorite time with Louise because she she shared with me um uh inspirational words and as a young you know I was an article student on the brink of becoming a lawyer um she shared her inspirations for experiences and and to me that meant the most because at that time you know you realize that um you know somebody as as influential and as established as as Louise Mandel you know also had those similar experiences as a lawyer and so for for me you know um as a young woman entering the legal profession the ability to connect with with somebody who's been so influential in the profession um in in so many ways to connect with them on a human you know to human level it was a beautiful thing and and I really needed to hear that that was probably my favorite time with her what was just talking you know about her experiences in law in the profession and and having you know the experiences that she does um as as the lawyer who she is it's wonderful I mean I love to hear you know her her talk about her experiences her you know how she handled certain situations how do you respond to you know when x y and z happens um the ability to connect with with somebody on that that deep of a level really meant a lot to me and that's my favorite memory um can you talk a little bit about the work that you did with UBCIC and then kind of the connections you had with Louise during that time as well sure so um there so when I worked with UBCIC I started I met Louise in the summer of 2000 I worked with her during my time here at the union as a senior policy analyst and that was probably about seven years you know times four meetings a year that's you know quite a number of meetings that that Louise was at and the ability to work with her and some way somehow during the development of the new relationship accord I found myself probably the age of 25 26 sitting in a room of very senior prominent and influential lawyers uh you know who were working for BC First Nations on the development and the new relationship accord and I remember just being in absolute awe because I knew who these these lawyers were these were the lawyers that you know taught our law classes at UBC law or wrote the textbooks that other professors relied on to talk about Aboriginal law we're talking you know like the heavy hitters and so I'm sitting in this room and I'm I'm scared beyond my wildest belief I don't know how I ended up there but somehow I'm a young policy analyst with you know the the lawyers that I look up to and so we're discussing you know the the new relationship accord and if you'd ever been in a room with lawyers you know that it's hard to get it over edge wise and so I think Louise must have seen that I wanted to share something you know I was at this burning desire to share and she I'm just laying Zoe she's like if you have something to say you need to say it's and Louise has got a very beautiful you know calm approach to her and that's how it was is that she she you know she kind of knew that I wanted to share something and and so she she created the space for me to share and I was very intimidated being a young woman at the time you know surrounded by all these lawyers that you know who am I to tell these lawyers hey I'd be quiet I have something to share but Louise did it for me and you know like it just seemed like such a small thing but you know when I reflect back that is a very very memorable moment that gave me self-confidence to speak you know and in this profession this area indigenous foreign politics you have to have the ability to speak out and speak well so as an advocate like that's always you know one of those moments that I connect back to Louise is if I have something to say share it you know and yeah that's that's uh what is some of the work that you did with UBCIC as a policy analyst some of the other work uh the work was very broad and you know it kind of took me from here to there when I first started out I was working in child welfare there were there were several big you know initiatives or processes going on at the time one was to create regional Aboriginal authorities for child welfare so there was five regions in the province you know we were working with the Ministry of Child and Family Development and we were working with First Nations and Aboriginal stakeholders so really working with a variety of partnerships who had diverse interests and and you know points of view on how things should be done it also took us to you know province-wide meetings with the chiefs on talking about where you know child welfare should go and inherent right to the well-being of children and families it's a hard topic you know and so really learning how to you know listen to what the chiefs want and the and you know the framing of the the direction that you're given how do you you know um take that direction and make it into something you know achievable or accomplishable is is you know it's it can be it can be challenging um so like it was an exciting time in indigenous politics when I was with the union we saw the birth of the First Nations leadership council and that leadership council created you know other uh councils such as the First Nations Child and Family Wellness Council the First Nations Health Council which was the predecessor to the First Nations Health Authority that is being you know created right now and is assuming you know the the jurisdiction for the you know service of First Nations Health Services in BC so you know this was a very exciting time it was leading up to the Olympics and things were changing you know um very very dynamic uh situation so really I you know I could uh find myself you know in a meeting with the you know provincial ministries on Monday I could find myself in a chief you know an all chiefs forum on the Thursday or or find myself you know working um with our communities you know uh if the if one particular community asked you know for uh for support or you know um wanted me to come meet with them I would I would be sent to to go meet with them you know to help them in in whatever issue they they wanted to help with so it was really interesting you know a broad variety of work things that we did here at the at that time um what kind of influence are you hoping to have in the field of Aboriginal law you spoke about this a little bit earlier you know I I thought about this question on on the way down here and uh I think the only answer I could come up with is a positive one I think that's all the end of the day I never consciously set out and say I'm going to have this wonderful impact and influence on Aboriginal law and you know I'm a wonderful lawyer and therefore um I think we at the end of the day for me as as a person who practices Aboriginal law I want to leave you know leave the profession leave the status or the state of Aboriginal law a better one than which I found it so for me you know um advancing Aboriginal law I mean I can only hope to have a career you know as influential as Louise Mandel but you know she's an extraordinary person um whatever impact advancement I can have for my clients you know I hope is a positive one I think you know we're all pieces of a puzzle um we all contribute in our own ways so so for me I don't think I necessarily set out for that but at the end of the day I have to know for myself did I do the best job that I could you know did I you know um get what my what the outcome that my my clients desired and and you know if I haven't done those things then how can I do them better and I think that's just you know your the the questions that you ask upon self-reflection as any professional but you know for me as a lawyer that's what I hope to accomplish you know the influence that I hope I will have in any given scenario kind of my last final question is what are some of like are there difficulties in being an Aboriginal woman within law or within Aboriginal law um the short answer is yes the way that I normally characterize it is that being an Indigenous woman um period I'm a member of the most marginalized sect of Canadian society so anything that I do is going to have you know its own unique set of challenges am I going to let it be a limiting factor absolutely not I think I try to take it and turn it into a positive is that because I'm an Indigenous woman because it's that much harder it's all that more important for me to achieve why because there's younger women in my family who are looking up you know for a role model who deserve a role model you know um when I was a younger woman growing up in Vancouver there weren't that many role models you know and for me I I try to be the mentor I try to be that older cousin that auntie that you know sister that can be relied upon you know and and so for me yes it is it is hard being an Indigenous woman you know um just in general in the profession uh yeah I'm I'm pretty uh I'm pretty unique individual it's stating that you know there's not a heck of a lot of us out there I probably know most of them in BC you know but um Indigenous women are made of a certain type of stock we're we're pretty tough you know um and and you know there was a photo shoot that took place in April of last year and it was a wonderful moment to celebrate the beauty and unique you know gift that um 10 Indigenous female lawyers got together and we actually shot right outside here at the union in the alley and um to celebrate our diversity and also you know those um uh the the cultural uniqueness that each of us have um I think it's wonderful the way that Indigenous women in this profession have have come together and formed deep friendships um I can pick up the phone in any given day any given hour and phone one of my female colleagues and they understand and they're very supportive and so I think you know we've been really blessed in in um our commonalities as being lawyers but also being Indigenous women that you know I I'm I'm I'm not alone in walking this path and in fact I have some very wonderful and powerful predecessors you know that I I feel very privileged to call my colleagues so Indigenous I think it's um it's a wonderful thing to be an Indigenous woman at this point in time practicing law