 Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening wherever you're joining us from. Thank you for being here today. My name is Abhijit Bhaduri I work as a talent and branding evangelist I'm the author of the book career 3.0 which talks about how careers are evolving in this world Which is getting shaped by technology for sure and which is also You know something which Connects my guests today with all of you now I'm going to give you a couple of hints to see if you can really guess Something about her but the most intriguing part when I was talking to her I realized that she's a person who sleeps for like three hours a day And I don't even know how that's even possible and how you can function I certainly can't but we'll find that out and whether that's a myth or does she really sleep for three hours a day she loves reading currently tripping on coldplay as she said and The other thing is that she led Intel for many many years She led Intel Southeast Asia and eventually came back to lead Intel India and is currently the president the first woman president of NASCARM India. So can you guess who is our guest? Hey, the Johnny. Thank you so much for being here and welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much Lovely to be here. Is it true that you sleep only three hours a day? It's a manufacturing defect not in my control. It's something that I have lived with all my life and No, it hasn't killed me till now as yet And does it mean that you spend? You know the rest of the 21 hours in office or you know, oh, no The time I do get is spend doing the things I love reading mostly reading Listening to music whenever I can if my family wakes up early Gets me some good time with them too and of course just My my health regime my exercise regime and etc. So no that that that time is not spent on office perfect So the journey I wanted to start a conversation by asking you about NASCARM, you know, so this is of course The National Association for Software and Services Companies is that you know, is that what did I get the full form right? Yeah, but the full form doesn't matter honestly because we've stopped referring it to it in the full form It started off. It's very interesting story I think it started off when the overall Indian tech industry was less than 50 billion also 50 million actually and the goal was to how do we get to a billion or 10 billion industry and The leaders who were really visionary at that point in time, Nara and Muti, Nandan, F.C. Coley You know, all of them Harish Mehta who played a key role in pulling all of this together all of them got together and said We absolutely can aspire to be a global power, but we cannot do it Individually we cannot do it alone so we have to get together to make this happen and That's when they came out 40 of the leaders of that point in time came together and created NASCARM as an organization to Catalyze the growth the global growth of tech industry in India today We are very proud to be the voice of Of an industry that is truly global that is 250 billion plus and growing employs 505.4 million people 38% of which are women by the way on something. I'm very proud of and you know a little known fact that Nearly 90% of fortune 500 companies work with rather depend on The Indian tech industry for their digital transformation. It's all happening here And today NASCARM is the voice of the overall tech industry the services products startups The multinationals that are working in India, of course Indian tech and it's and now I see us as a Catalyst we Continue to stay a catalyst because that's something we do really well and also a bridge between the industry and government So I'm going to sort of start by looking at you know, when you look at the industry from the point of view of Talent opportunities career. This is going to be a little part of my focus But before I get there, I wanted to actually ask you that when you were growing up I mean what was your your aspiration? What did you want to be? Did you want to? You know be An engineer is that what you wanted to be? You know doctor engineer Charter counter this in India, you know the three most sought-after role. So what did you want to be? So I grew up in a I was very blessed to grow up in a completely at that point in time you would call it a crazy family where Gender had absolutely no role to play My father loved to cook my mother was the problem for a person we would go for our science problems and We never thought of gender having anything to do with how we dream or what we can do our capabilities And that was something both my parents were very very Because I grew up in a joint family with a lot of boys. So my parents were very very clear that Who you are or at least your gender has nothing to do with who you can be or want to be And I think what got instilled in my head was don't get fixated on what you want to be Get fixated on figuring out your passion get fixated on Going after whatever, you know really gets you going and get fixated on at least Trying to be the best in whatever you do. So I never grew up thinking like I'm gonna be an engineer or a Doctor if anything the only dream was an astronaut at some point in time. I was fascinated with space So at some point in time, I would have given anything to you know become an astronaut But I never sort of grew up and I think that helped so much Abhijit because too many kids wear these blinkers of You know, this is what I want to be and in today's world where technology is reshaping everything There's so many new opportunities getting created and when you wear blinkers You do not see any of these opportunities and the good thing was I think thanks to my parents. I Had the I mean I I was able to see a lot of different opportunities. So I started I finished my MBA and I Decided took my time and decided I would go into advertising Because it gave me a very good understanding of different industries and I was very blessed joined O'Gilvy Was able to work on a fantastic client like Titan at that point in time Titan was, you know still Yeah, and it was early days and it was fantastic to learn and Then within a few a year or so Intel happened and Intel happened in such a strange way someone called me and said they are interviewing for people They need somebody in marketing. Why don't you go and Honestly, I wasn't sure of that time technology wasn't my thing at that point in time I went in and for the first time in my life There was a woman on the opposite side of the table and she wasn't HR. She wasn't secretary She wasn't a reception. She was head of global marketing or Asia marketing and sales or something like that And you know, you say that spark that career your ambition suddenly becomes alive I think that was that moment for me like, oh my god if she can do this I can do this right and Intel happened because of that because I Was just fascinated by what I saw, right? And Yeah, and since then I think technology just became such an integral part of my life and It wasn't about the silicon or it wasn't about technology for the sake of technology But my lens has always been what it can do what it means to me what it means to users And I think that has served me pretty well And when you Thought about, you know the role at NASCARB. What did you visualize your role to be before you said yes to it? So I was you know, I I've spent 21 years with Intel and I was in Southeast Asia I was heading Intel Southeast Asia and doing a very decent job of it We had grown revenue and it had become a fastest-growing region in a pack etc. etc When Intel asked me to come back to India and they said it's time now to go back and And there's a there's a spell. It's it's a I call it a joke, but I don't know It's it's when I was interviewing with Deborah Deborah Conrad the lady I met at Intel She asked me would you want to be in 20 years? And I said listen if I'm gonna give 20 years of my life to this company By the end of it. I better be the head of this organization at least in India I'm what a head India. So, you know, it was funny because And and that's something that I'd kept as my goal post right through my career at Intel And every manager knew that was my dream. I made sure they knew that was my dream. So it was funny because In around 15 years, they called and they said time to realize the dream and go back and You know take on the responsibility you wanted from start. So I came back and My goal was to, you know, get the job done And then I wanted to most rally go and work in either China or Latin America Those two were aspirational geos for me at that point in time, but then the magic of India sort of you know, completely overtook and Fascinating I mean India is such a fascinating country and Especially when you are thinking about or when you are in the technology in the field of technology There is no limit to what can happen. There is no limit to what problems you can solve So I was getting more and more deeply Crane into into, you know, the very fabric of India and how technology gets Plays a role in in building India of the future the whole concept of digital India So what I knew is this is where I want to be I don't want to go anywhere and this is what I want to do and at that point one of my mentors Actually a few of two or two or three of my mentors so met the CP Gurnani who had a tech Mahindra and N Chandra who ended TCS at that point came to me and said listen if this is a dream You cannot realize the team sitting in a company You have to step out of your comfort zone and you have to you know, play a bigger role and There is nascom There's an opening they're looking for a new leader you can go there and do you know It's pretty much figure out what do you want to do with it? But this is exactly what you can do make a big difference to the country and the industry so that's how nascom happened and Again, I had not thought about it. I had that was not a goal it but that's that's what I say when you wear Don't wear the blinkers suddenly the opportunities come up and you're able to see them So, you know, Dave Johnny, I'm gonna just for the benefit of my listeners I'm gonna summarize two of the things that struck me in our conversation one is You know, I I think I like the idea that when you start off pretty early and decide That you know, I want to be a doctor. I want to be an engineer You kind of are in some senses working with blinkers because the world of possibilities is there before you You don't even know what is being served It's like in some senses or you know, the image in my head was you are getting into a restaurant And you're you've already decided I'm going to have a sandwich You don't even know whether they are serving biryani or they are serving noodles or is that a Mexican restaurant? So you are deciding something without even being aware of it. So looking at the possibilities Looking at what interests you what are you prepared for what are what is that sector going to do is one of the ways in which you sort of did that The second thing that I kind of think which was quite interesting is Being you know, the second lesson I took away was that really that how do you Stay away from your home because you have a path which is really going very well in some sense You wanted to head intel. That was your dream. You realized your dream. I mean for most people Once you hit your dream, you just don't do anything to change that, you know, and You sort of really went and broke the mold and once again decided to You know come in sort of really Work in that space When you look at that That is another fascinating example 2018 was it when you joined NASCAR 2017 2017, okay What did you think the role was and what do you think the role is today? See when I joined NASCAR at least I was as head of Intel India I was definitely part of NASCAR me see so I had that kind of exposure But I saw NASCAR pretty much as a lobbying body, right? So the body that would go and lobby for the industry and You know fight for visas and stuff like that and I knew that's not what I wanted to do. I was absolutely very clear That's that's not what to be in where NASCAR should stand for And at that point in time a lot was happening in India the whole concept of digital India was becoming a reality You know nandan and his team were working on all you know scaling adhaar and it was there was just a lot of different you know like magic happening in different places, right and The one thing I did know is this is the time when Um We can do something big as an industry as a country. We can absolutely do something big um, and It was about I mean for me it really was about I mean this was before the ai hype started honestly, but um thanks to intel the The foundation had been laid so strong in terms of understanding technology and what's happening But for me, this was really about frontier technology And how does india play a role in frontier technology? How does india? I mean the problems i wanted to solve was How do we get india to be a serious contender in in the area of frontier technology? artificial intelligence blockchain quantum blah blah blah How do we get the startup ecosystem in india to to be known for its innovation capabilities? versus just a number game um And how do we make india almost? I mean it's always been a dream that the eye in india should stand for innovation And how do we make india a global hub for talent and innovation? So those were sort of the big dreams that I had going into it and that's what I had told The board that if I come in this is what I want to do. I'm not going to be looking at just Solving tactical problems that the industry has and the board support went out of their way to support me and still do Is it was just fantastic? And I think that's what we've been able to do to a very large extent You talked about really a fabulous vision moving The role of nascar from being completely transactional to something truly strategic For a billion and a half people and that's a phenomenal Sort of shift of perspective I've seen this more than a billion and a half people go back to coven When the world was shutting down, right banks were shutting down hospitals were shutting down There was one country Where you know the industry was impacted because we had some outdated laws in india Which did not allow work from home for a large part of the industry and the bpm industry Which does a lot of the back and work for the world was getting impacted Nascar worked with the government and within a week We got a law changed, you know within a week. We had Nearly around four million people Moving to their homes with two million assets It was it was just crazy, but it was coordinated to the tea, you know and and you know as The prime minister has very kindly said this but when the world's lights were about to go out It was the indian tech industry that kept the lights on Because we managed the back end of pretty much every company And I think I think it's it's therefore I think the work we do Actually has a global impact. It's not just impacting india Where do you see most of the opportunities? I mean is it in You know, is it in the startup ecosystem? Is it in the mature services or you know, where do you see the opportunities today? And and if you paint a picture for the next three years When somebody is thinking about Building their career, what are some of those markers they should be looking at? What are the data points? The good thing is it's not an either or story. It's an and story India will continue to have an extremely strong services sector Comply and they will I have completely believe in it that they will continue to grow They will continue to strengthen and they will continue to reinvent themselves. That's this. That's the if you look at One word that defines or two words that define the service sector of India It's adaptability and its resilience We are we have been tremendously resilient and we will continue to stay resilient I believe and we have continued to adapt and learn and grow and I think that's what we will do As what we are doing in the face of this huge transformation that's come our way opportunity that ai has brought into the game The startup sector in india is growing tremendously strong As a tech sector, I mean, I think we are the third largest tech startup hub in the world The deep tech sector is small But it is growing and it is very exciting the kind of work that's going on there from drug development to Agri It is amazing innovation that is going on So there's tremendous opportunity and then of course there's a nascent product sector Which is also growing. So I think in India the the good part of it is one if you if you're just thinking about the tech sector There are so many good options for you You know and and then let's not forget that today every company is a digital company Every company needs data scientists data analysts every company needs cybersecurity experts Whether you're a bank or a hospital So if you're building your foundation in this area The opportunities honestly are limitless and I keep advising kids. Don't don't think that I'm going to be in the tech sector You know Whatever your passion is if your passion is coding or if your passion is in in cyber and security Be the best build that those expertise capabilities and don't worry about which sector find the best opportunity you can get when When somebody is looking at the choices in the next three years, you know, are there Sectors which are going to grow faster than the others, you know, so whether and and by that I mean, you know, you know Would you suggest that somebody looks for more opportunities and health care related technology or You know banking and finances that going to grow faster Do you have a point of view about that or is it going to be agnostic of sector? Is going to boom in India any which way? Yeah, I I don't think about the sectors I think it's going to be agnostic because there is so much to be done in every one of these areas So when when at least when I talk to students my Advice or my suggestion is very simple. Don't worry about the sectors first First thing Just build those what we used to call soft skills, but I think today they are the most critical skills I mean, how good of problems all where are you? How can you, you know, your ability to identify problems your ability to Um Put that vision out to communicate and get people influence people to come and work with you to solve that problem Your ability therefore your ability to collaborate all of this is so critical and Second build a strong foundation stem is a must Now you have to build a foundation with with You know, whether it is data science, I strongly believe that helps tremendously whatever field Building a foundation of just understanding of security is so important because it goes hand in hand So the you know, whether you're a coder or whatever the security protocols that must in your job I think build a strong foundation of the core technologies And it's not going to be about one technology. It's going to be about your ability to orchestrate The different technologies to solve the problem in the best possible way And then yes, if you truly are passionate because there's some kids who'll come and say I really want to do something in health Or I really want to do something in Agri then build the domain Knowledge it's very important to understand the core business model of that sector And what are the challenges because then you can apply your problem solving skills to it to add value So I have a little different way of looking at it But I think the foundational skills are way more important than Thinking about which sector do I want to be in? So what I hear you say is you know first build anything to do That involves working with people, you know, so the people skills And then you kind of look at getting an overview of you know, some of the digital skills because every company is going to become a Take company in some shape or form and then you kind of really also build people understanding of the domain So that when combined creates a very powerful resume That opens the door for you I would add to that is not just the people skills that is very important But I think the problem solving skills, you know, we're all born with curiosity, right? And then we lose it in our education system So how do you rekindle the curiosity and and not just being curious but But having the courage and the conviction to do something about it I think that thankfully we're seeing it in this generation. We're seeing it in in the young generation, so That's something that I think that has to be the one job of education system. We have to rekindle that file we have to rekindle that spark in every child and I think along with that You know the school belief that The entrepreneurial spirit that I will start to do something And I have a dream and I'm not going to wait for somebody else to create exactly that product and then I'll join them But I'll build that thing, you know, so I think that's the other piece. I would add to it I'm going to sort of you take a different track and ask you to actually explain for the benefit of the audience What has been the you know The kind of a shift in the Indian tech industry when you look at that landscape, you know, like you've got the Awesome digital infrastructure and all the plumbing is now there and all of that if you just Simplify the history and explain for the people How should they understand what has happened? What is happening today and what is the way forward? That would be really terrific So let me talk about digital India and not just the tech industry the tech industry is an enabler of digital India But let me you know the first thing about India is everyone Honestly is a digital native If you if you look at survey after survey that looks at how countries or citizens are afraid of technology You will always find India lowest in the in the in the ranking in terms of fear of technology Old or young we sort of take to technology like fish takes to water for whatever reason we we take to technology very fast So if you want to visualize digital India You know, I use this little example and story because I saw this and it's something that is always stay with me But driving through one of the small towns of India There was this woman sitting on the road. She had a mat Spread out and she was selling vegetables there, right very fresh vegetables, etc. And When it came to the trial completing the transaction She was not accepting cash She was putting up a little board with the qr code And the people would take their phone out scan the qr code and it was done And this image has stayed with me because this is digital India where It's about the last mile You know, and this is the this is what's different about India and many people do not get it When we innovate in India and especially when we are thinking about public infrastructure We are not innovating to solve the problems of the top We are innovating to solve the problems at the grassroots And then scaling it up Every digital public infrastructure that India is building is built on the design principles of open interoperable System led and secured by design Right, what happens when you apply these design principles is you break break monopolies So you are creating a system where everyone in delay think about upi are unified development infrastructure, right? It's the world's largest financial inclusion platform. I mean billions and billions of transactions every month Beauty of upi is everyone can play. There's google. There's paytm a small startup It's it's it's amazing to see and I think it only happens in India Where google is actually competing with the startup when it comes to the the the the number of transactions, right? And because of you the digital public infrastructure, which government creates think of it like a highway It's a highway that has been created. Now what it does is it democratizes data access It democrat democratizes market access Now you come in with your innovation and as if your innovation is good It doesn't matter how big or small you are you are going to win Right and this is amazingly unique and You know I give a lot of credit Not just to our government, but also people like nandan promod varma. Dr. Promod varma who are all involved in Coming up with this design But this is fabulous because what this has done is this has enabled population level scale of technology And this is something again you do not see in any other country Where billions of people are using technology for financial inclusion for vaccination for education for healthcare, etc For travel, right? And I think this is the principle we really want to take forward Even women there's so much of thought on artificial intelligence and risks and what it means I mean, I look at it from the lens of opportunity of course oversight is needed But I also think we will be in a very good place In india because if we apply these design principles and create a truly open ecosystem led Framework for deployment of ai at at scale I think I think we will have the answer To unlocking the full potential of ai for inclusive economic growth And that's what excites me the most about india And I also think that, you know the fact that You're the kind of scale that is possible in india, you know anything that you do You launch it in a small city, you know, you get millions of people and that's a Unique opportunity If the technology is trusted, let's not forget that there's so many things that are launched and do not scale Right and I think this is where the design principles do matter Because when you are building for trust When you're building for scale, the first thing you have to do is build for trust Because scale does not happen without trust Trust does not happen in a closed ecosystem Trust happens when you open it up Trust happens when the entire ecosystem comes together to play Trust happens when you are accountable and transparent about how you're building the stack Right, so this is this is something we often ignore, but this I think is the secret sauce of india success Yeah, I would agree that, you know, you can design something adoption is really entirely a function of trust If people don't trust the technology, it doesn't matter who's offering it So that's going to really be a defining factor of adoption And that to adoption at scale, I think it matters even more. You should look at that So we've now been in a situation where the tech stack has been built You know, so you've got the upi for payments. You've got the biometric system in other cards which Sort of verifies who you are your identity management system And and then you also have the sort of all the data cost It's your identity kyc and your data layer which has come together So when you look at this, what is the next phase now, especially in a world which is getting shaped by generative AI What is going to be the next phase for india to build its competitive advantage? So I think the first thing we have to figure out is How do we build a new PI for every other sector? We've really crafted for financial inclusion And to a large extent for healthcare. How do we do the same for agri? What is that? And I think there's a lot of work going on and hopefully something soon will come out of it But how do we do this for agri? How do we do this for? You know, I would even take it to core sectors like manufacturing Which is so important Artificial intelligence the way we see it or the way I see it artificial intelligence is a tool and we have to figure out how do we Best apply this tool to ensure that we develop a layer of intelligence Into the stack into every level of the stack Primarily to ensure that we Make the technology much more intuitive much more intelligent and also Much more inclusive because we are dealing with the issue of multiple languages culture, etc etc And I think this is where the the the capabilities of AI can tremendously come into play in India Right and and it has to be I mean for me AI stands for augmented intelligence. I'm very clear on that and I do believe that Somehow the global AI narrative and I don't know the reason I mean I really don't understand it Has underplayed the role of human ingenuity and human creativity and accountability And I think that was very dangerous And that's something I do not want to see happening in India The age of AI is frankly I think I believe it'll shine the light much more on human accountability and human ingenuity It has to for us to get it right and I think that's where I want to see India take the lead So as we are thinking about deploying the stack to solve mega problems mega problems across sectors I think how artificial intelligence can come in to enable us do that better bigger safer Is is the role that it has to play I and you know what you were talking about about building trust and you are talking about the human Factor being more prominent than the tech factor. You know, it reminded me of I just met the president and CEO of Society for Human Resource Management Johnny Taylor and he uses a phrase which is AI plus Hi, which is human intelligence, you know is equal to ROI. So It's similar that you know, you are really talking about Putting the human first To be able to use technology as an enabler and then do that whatever that technology could be Today it's the generative AI tomorrow How do you build that When you see the big problems to be solved, uh, you know One of the big problems in my view is going to be about how do we upskill people From the point of view of Leveraging the opportunities that AI is going to create, you know, so when you look at that Yeah, and one of the beliefs I have is that The role of the government in creating jobs per se for everybody I mean, I think it's a thing of the past. It'll be something completely different and people will need to You know start to be more entrepreneurial on that How do we prepare for that future? What is your roadmap if I were to ask you how would you advise us? So, um, you know So, you know, if you talk about supply chain risks and That is one of the big topics right now in terms of supply chain resilience that's top of mind for every CEO I think the talent shortage is one of the biggest risks to supply chain resilience globally and the numbers are amazing I mean, they believe Yeah, I think I'll lose my even my two or three hours of sleep When I usually do when I read these numbers like 85 million people shot by 2030 Right. It's just crazy the numbers are crazy And I think we have to start getting realistic about the problem the pace at which technology is changing can we Honestly Keep up with that pace of change With respect to our skilling efforts I mean think of a normal skilling effort and how much time it takes to really get someone to a certain level of expertise not just Skilling them for the sake of skilling them, right? But doing a good job Yeah Humans learn differently. We take time to learn most of us, right? So I think the big problem is complete Miss, you know, the the disruption that's happening with respect to the pace at which technology is moving at the pace at which we humans can learn I think that's a huge problem I think at least I don't know the right answer, honestly But in my mind, I think this is where status quo is totally not going to cut it We we we will always be left behind So we have to think about things differently and one of the things at least I think about is What if we started using technology better to solve for this problem? For example, again, I go back to what I said What if we focused really on what I call the foundational skills problem solving collaboration Foundation or technology skills, etc etc If if you're equipped with these skills and of course the most important skill is the ability to unlearn and learn Right. That is that is key Everyone has to if you can't do this. I have no idea how anyone's going to survive You have to be able to learn and if you're able to do it then We can use technology to bridge to to to bridge that gap. So for example You know, if you are a coder today You have to also sort of be a security expert Because it's very important for you to start thinking about the security protocols From the time you start developing your code and algorithm, right? now do we take all the millions and billions of coders and Get them into a crash course to learn how to become security experts or do we maybe create AI assistant That is that security expert and that can work with the coders right from start to ask to To act as an assistant and help them build in the protocols as they're developing the same applies for domain knowledge You know, can we create a healthcare expert that will work with the tech? workforce To ensure that they have the right domain expertise at their tips I think satya nadella said this and I cannot agree with more AI is about expertise at our fingertips That is what AI means to me, right? That's the biggest value of AI So we have to now figure out how do we leverage this? and We rather than try and scale everyone to be the ultimate expert in everything Can we build a very strong foundation of people? Who are well-versed in technology know how to use it can learn quickly and can work with these tools to solve for these problems that The future I see I see a future where it is going to be about human plus AI assistance um in whatever job you are doing um, and I think that We know what skills are needed to make that work And so in my book career 3.0 the first two skills that I talk about are that one Are you able to learn things that you have not been formally taught? How do you learn that you know things that? Were not part of the curriculum when you were a student. How do you continue to sort of learn yourself? So that's one skill to Proof of your proficiency in learning as you are able to teach somebody You know, so how do you teach someone because that forces you to simplify it and now you can teach someone It also solves another problem Which is that you know, how do you scale up this knowledge and sort of say that? So, you know, you have the AI assistant and you also have the human coach who's able to sort of work with group um, and we've seen the value of that uh, you know across So when you look at The role of organizations in skilling You know, and if you were advising the CEOs of organizations um What would you advise them to rethink about the way they invest in skill development for their employees? How would you advise them to shift it so that? You know, they can come together To build a stronger foundation So this is actually a conversation. It's ongoing. I'm having it with pretty much all the leaders um We have to integrate skilling into your core job function It can't be that extra thing you do Uh before your performance review or whatever to do, you know, get the checks done that okay I have done taken these three courses, right, which is always how we have traditionally approach skilling This has to get integrated pretty much into your your core job function where And and skilling will take different shapes. There's one skilling on the job you learn while you are doing um others, you know Is where you learn from your network your mentors and coach and of course there's skilling through formal courses, etc um But this is something that I think has to be part of every job description and how we write it out The importance of learning and the importance of Staying relevant With trends changing trends, etc. It's so it's it's something most job descriptions do not have They do not talk about it And I think we just have to we have to first make that change because a lot of it is driven by what is I mean I'm so tired of hearing that that was not included in my job scope Or you know that that is above my pay grade. That is not something we have to change that We really have to change that where it learning has to pretty much become an integral part Of what you do and your success Um, so that's the conversation. I actually have with every CEO None of us know I've cracked um figured out How exactly to get it done, but there's a lot of good conversations and I think we'll figure it out You know when you think uh, so this is what you're talking to organizations as to how they should be investing and prioritizing and really changing their approach to upskilling But if you talk to individuals, uh, if I were to ask you what can I do as an individual to upskill myself What would you advise differently? What do you think I should be doing differently? You know, I'll talk about myself, right as it is as I told you in the beginning when I joined Intel I didn't I couldn't spell technology. I was an economics major marketing and Two things I realized very soon Thanks to some brilliant mentors at Intel and brilliant leaders at Intel One if you are different, it's your biggest advantage Because when you're different the world looks at you with a lot of curiosity and you have You know, you have their attention. So it's up to you how you want to use that attention and you can use that attention. Well Only if you're fully prepared So be ready to burn the midnight oil and be ready to learn, right? um If you are prepared and you have I I actually Take my gender and everything as the biggest advantage that I have Because yes, when I walk into room people don't do look up and say How what? Representing head of nascombe. Okay. And it's fantastic because that bias lasts for all of one minute Right when you start talking the bias goes away. But again, that depends on how well you're prepared So one there is no shortcut to learning to hard work. That is my mantra Even now you ask what I do with the hours that I save by when I don't sleep It goes into that It and and there's always something to learn now the best way for me to learn is I have a fantastic group of people um, who are really good at what they do and in my team as well as in the ecosystem And I make sure I mean those are the meetings I will never miss You know, though they are structured I will make sure I continue to talk to them because for me the best way to learn is to understand Based on how things are being applied the real stuff. So one that to Listening to podcasts I do a lot of that because in delhi when when you live in delhi you are stuck in a lot of traffic and You're always traveling Those my car my whenever I'm in a car those whatever how many of our hours I spend go in listening to podcasts Because they're fabulous ways to wait to learn and last of course my very own passion, which is reading Today in india when people want to talk about artificial intelligence, etc I'm very I feel very humbled and blessed that they come and talk to me and My knowledge is from what I have taught myself by talking to people by listening to others by reading So there's no magic answer. It's just it is a lot of hard work But if you begin to begin to enjoy the process Then it's the best thing you can do What are some of the podcasts that you uh, listen to Quick two or three names Um One of my favorites is the all-in Uh, because I just find them very honest in whatever they are saying I may not always agree with them But I do and I love the points of view and freed work is absolutely my favorite Um, so all in is good. I like lex freedman um um That's another one that I I really like I also I also watch a lot of the the recent jensen wong at stanford. Oh, what a fabulous session that was He's you know, again, I said I told you in the beginning. I'm a gemini So I don't have fixed fixed and I just don't have any fixed likes or dislikes or ideas, right? If I hear of something good, I'll go and catch it I caught a few of yours when you reached out to me loved it Love the love the different discussions you have and especially on Skilling which I think is is so important so so yeah Always looking for ideas and recommendations. So that's really to me the kind of a curious mind that you know You're really gathering ideas from a variety of sources. And what a great time to be alive that you can actually Uh, you know cure the wisdom of all these gifts Uh, and I will also say that yes, I know that you were recently in conversation with thomas freedman The Nobel Prize where I'm just one of my favorites. He's absolutely So what does he talk to you about tell us about that? So he was in India for for an event or something and he's a great friend of nascones Um, so whenever he comes here, he always he's just so generous. He kind of this time He always gives us time to and we love to you know, just get him in a room Bring some of our deep tech startups founders and sit down and It was fascinating, right because um, he he listens thoms biggest I think Strength is his ability to listen and it's just a man then he connects it back to all sorts of things. So So, you know, it's a great opportunity for him to I think to listen to these young founders And the problems they are working on what are they solving and then beautifully connected back to technology to what's geopolitics What's happening around the world? And of course india So it was just a fascinating conversation again as you might have guessed by now I'm not a person who's fond of boundaries. I can't work with boundaries. So it was you know, when with tom There are never any conversations, right? It's sort of So we started with deep tech we started with then we went quickly into ai and what's happening in the world of ai Why is it happening? You know, and then How is india looking at ai? um, and You know, what can what does all of this mean from the global geopolitics dynamics that we are seeing It was it was truly fascinating When Look at the startup ecosystem In india Where do you see the roadmap? What what are some of the things that you expect to see happening? Because there are some Some of them are You know, they are in their way to maturity. They've built a certain kind of a product value Where do you see? Possibilities emerging, you know, what do you think of those? You know, um See with the young population we have I think Entrepreneurship is going to be the future Because if thankfully we don't just have a young population, but we have a young population that is growing confident by the day That is seeing that is growing up with technology That is seeing india use technology to solve really big problems um And somewhere we are doing something right because I see them getting more and more curious by the day So I think that's absolutely fabulous. So entrepreneurship. I think is going to be the The natural outcome As as you think about how do you how do you how do you put this? Demo demographic asset to work, right? How do you get the most out of it? Um It's amazing. I believe that, um, you know, we have I I for I look at only the tech startup ecosystem And off the 30 000 or tech startups that we have in india It's amazing to see of the new startups that are coming up more than 40 percent are coming up from peer to peer three cities So entrepreneurship is not just restricted to the bombayers and the vangalors of the world now people from jeppor indore Smaller cities of india are aspiring to become entrepreneurs um There's no shortage of problems to solve You know, thankfully we are blessed with enough for big problems to solve So there's no shortage of problems and I think this is a huge advantage We have over silicon valley where we have very real problems to solve, right? What is needed now is really building that Strong capabilities in in the digital mastery in their ability to use technology to solve for these problems Their ability to the softer skills the So I I actually feel tremendously hopeful About the entrepreneurship ecosystem in india. How's it growing as nascom we have decided to focus Now really on the on the deep tech ecosystem because that's still very nascent around 3000 deep tech startups But has tremendous potential and has tremendous potential to contribute to india and the world because of the problems they can solve And and we have to get the framework right in india Ensuring we have more patient capital To solve for some of these big problems and not just the flavor of the month You know funding goes often towards the flavor of the month So how do we ensure we have serious capital patient capital? We build that in the country to solve for some of these big problems How do we ensure that and a ministry of education is now working with diaries to come up with a entrepreneurship curriculum, which I am very privileged to have been part of in terms of That entire initiative Government of india the ministry of electronics works with nascom to run a very unique initiative which is future skills Future skills prime, which I think is the only one of its kind globally. It's it's a public private initiative To digitally scale millions and millions of youngsters in india And we are skilling them on foundational tech. We are skilling them on deep tech. We are skilling them on these soft skills And and it's fantastic because The way we do it is we are not creating the curriculum. We are bringing in industry Industry comes in with their curriculum with their expertise Government comes in with frameworks like the credit framework where they Credit a lot of the curriculum that industry brings in and then scaled out to universities So it is I think there's a lot going on in this space to build the capabilities So if we have the we have the talent, we want to strengthen the capabilities We have amazing problems to solve. We have the advantage of scale. We have the advantage of People believing that technology helps and not being afraid of it. So So, yeah, I think all the pieces are coming together for Even more amazing Opportunities No, I I certainly can't think of a better person to represent that dream For india than you who has Well, what you just said, I want to sort of end by asking your advice for people in three different You know people who are And I want to start with people who are highly experienced to spend more than 20 years working And who are kind of, you know at fairly established positions in their careers What can they do? to You know build their skills And your advice to them For the next five years and then we'll come to the middle level and the people who are getting started so I fall in that category And I feel we are at the highest risk. We are the we are the high risk sector because often, I know most of us have had very successful careers And often when you look back at the success, you don't want to change Because it has worked for you till now and success becomes your biggest downfall And I think it's very difficult for people in that age group that level of experience to You know get rid of All the legacy baggage that we we carry with us about how it's done and how it's supposed to be and how great I am And actually go back to saying I am I am at risk of just losing complete relevance And I think that's that is a true risk. And I think this is the sector. I worry the most about It's not about how you learn I think all of us have different ways of learning I think it's about getting over that Mindset barrier that we all have with respect to We are established. I hate that word. By the way, Abhijeet, you know, what does it even mean? And I think it's just so much harm than good, right? None of us are established. We are all in an infinite game. The goalpost is continuously moving And now our competition is coming from people who can learn way more quickly than we can So I think we really have to be on our toes So, you know, what I heard you say is people who are Really highly experienced who have put decades of work. They are Most at risk in terms of becoming irrelevant. What ever number of years they look ahead and that's the You know scariest part. I would think that you know people As they say that well, I'm very close to retirement And I think I'm going to be able to just sail through Omshia momentum It's not going to work like that and be I also think, you know, as I was doing the research from my book You know, all of us are going to live much longer Than what we anticipated earlier when we started a career And therefore this whole notion of retirement is I think going to go away, you know And already you see signs of that happening in different countries, you know The governments are pushing back retirement age In many of the countries you see what's happening in France. You see what's happening in Germany many of these places Because people are really going to be healthy enough to work for much longer. So this whole notion of Whether you're retired or not retirement doesn't mean anything to me, right? It's just There's a life after retirement and it's and I have seen people in my ecosystem Who are doing better work than they have ever done post retirement? You know, they're advising they're on boards. They're doing such amazing work So I don't think retirement has anything to do with Our ability to contribute and our willingness to contribute But what definitely will either limit or significantly enhance our contribution is our ability to learn And what is your advice to people who are in the early stages of their career? What should they do to be relevant? You know, you have to make technology your best friend. You have to Um, it doesn't matter whether you think you are going to join an NGOs, you know The non-profit sector or you are going to join politics or you're going to become a doctor or whatever But The only way you can Be the best is if you have the right level of expertise and you're Assistant your tech assistant AI assistant or whatever is what is going to be able to provide you with that with that expertise I think you have to understand that and you have to really embrace that And so therefore the and technology is forever changing. The only way you can Stay current is if you learn every single day and unlearn what you had learned till day before So I think that becomes so so so important. Um, and the second thing I would say is Focus focus on solving big problems That is whether you are in a corporate whether you are an entrepreneur Whether you are in government Your goal and goal should be, you know, what kind of impact can I create and I always say this to my team Also, all of us will leave or go on to do something else at some point in time And I have done this for you know, even 21 years at intel But lots of different roles and jobs and every time I left a role to go on to something else I would always look back to see what's the legacy I'm leaving However small but did I change anything right and if you didn't it is just such a waste of your time And how much time do we give our work, right? So there should be something that you have impacted So look for making that impact that problem which is where the problem solving comes into play and the third thing is You know, you can only go alone so far It's really about If you stand on the shoulder of giants You will take huge, huge leap. So find those giants and build those build that team build the ecosystem That will take you forward Devjani, thank you so very much. I mean I You know so resonate with the way that you are thinking about it. I am so glad that you are You know, needing that revolution for india in such a privilege to have you talk to my audience and those of you who You know, haven't done quite really say Follow Devjani on twitter and connect with her on linkedin and thank you once again for being here today All the very best for your dreams. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. I believe lovely talking to you