 Okay, we're back with Jen Saavedra, who's the Chief Human Resource Officer of Dell. And we're going to discuss people, culture, and hybrid work and leadership in the post-isolation economy. Jen, the conversations that we had at Dell Tech World this past May around the new work environment were some of the most interesting and engaging that I had personally. So I'm really eager to get the update. It's great to see you again. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for having me, Dave. There's been a lot of change in just a short amount of time. So excited to share some of our learnings with you. I mean, I'll bet there has. I mean, post-pandemic companies, they're trying, everybody's trying to figure out the return to work and what it looks like. You know, last May, there was really a theme of flexibility, but depending, we talked about, well, millennial or not, young, old, and it's just really was mixed. But so how have you approached the topic? What are your policies? What's changed since we last talked? You know, what's working? You know, what's still being worked? And what would you recommend to other companies to over to you? Yeah, well, you know, this isn't a topic that's necessarily new to Dell technology. So we've been doing hybrid before hybrid was a thing. So for over a decade, we've been doing what we call connected workplace. So we have kind of a history and we have some great learnings from that. Although things did change for the entire world. You know, March of 2020, we went from kind of this hybrid to everybody being remote for a while. But what we wanted to do is we're such a data-driven company. There's so many headlines out there, you know, about all these things that people think could happen, will happen. But there wasn't a lot of data behind it. So we took a step back and we asked our team members, how do you think we're doing? And we asked very kind of strong language because we've been doing this for a while. We asked them, do you think we're leading in the world of hybrid? And 86% of our team members said that we were, which is great, but we always know there's nuance, right? Behind that macro level. So we asked them a lot of different questions and we just went on this kind of myth-busting journey. And we decided to test some of those things we're hearing about culture will erode or new team members will have trouble being connected or millennials will be different. And we really just collected a lot of data, asked our team members what their experience is. And what we have found is really, you don't have to be together in the office all the time to have a strong culture, a sense of connection to be productive and to have a really healthy business. Well, I like that you were data-driven around it within the data business here. So, but there is a lot of debate around your culture and how it suffers in a hybrid environment, how remote workers won't get promoted. And so I'm curious, and I've seen some like-minded companies like Dell say, hey, we want you guys to work the way you want to work, but then I've seen them adjust and say, well, yeah, but we also want you in the office so we can collaborate a little bit more. So what are you seeing at Dell and how do you maintain that cultural advantage that you're alluding to in this kind of strange new ever changing world? Yeah, well, I think, look, one approach doesn't fit all. So I don't think that the approach that works for Dell Technologies is necessarily the approach that works for every company. It works with our strategy and culture. It is really important that we listen to our team members and that we support them through this journey. They tell us time and time again, one of the most special things about our culture is that we provide flexibility and choice. So we're not a mandate culture. We really want to make sure that our team members know that we want them to be their best and do their best and not every individual role has the same requirements, not every individual person has the same needs. And so we really wanna meet them where they are so that they can be productive. They feel connected to the team and to the company and engaged and inspired. So for us, it really does make sense to go forward with this. And so we haven't taken a step back. We've been doing hybrid. We'll continue to do hybrid. But just like if we talk about not being a mandate, I think the companies that say nobody will come in or you have to come in three days a week, all of that feels more limiting. And so what we really say is, work out with your team, work out with your role, work out with your leader, what really makes the most sense to drive things forward. So that's what we do. You were talking before about myths. And I wanna talk about team member performance because there's a lot of people believe that if you're not in the office, you have disadvantages, people in the office have the advantage because they get FaceTime. Is that a myth? Is there some truth to that? What do you think about that? Well, for us, we look again, we just looked at the data. So we said, we don't wanna create a have and have not culture that you're talking about. We really wanna have an inclusive culture. We wanna be outcome-driven, we're meritocracy. But we went and we looked at the data. So pre-pandemic, we looked at things like performance. We looked at rewards and recognition. We looked at attrition rates. We looked at sentiment. Do you feel like your leader is inspiring? And we found no meaningful differences in any of that or in engagement between those who work fully remote, fully in the office or some combination between. So our data would bust that myth and say, it doesn't, you don't have to be in an office and be seen to get ahead. We have equitable opportunity. Now, having said that, you always have to be watching that data and that's something that we'll continue to do and make sure that we are creating equal opportunity regardless of what you're doing. And it's personal too, I think. I think some people can be really productive at home. I happen to be one that I'm way more productive in the office because the dog's not barking. I have less distractions. And I think the takeaway that in just in talking to you, Jen and folks at Dell is, whatever works for you, we're gonna support. So I wanted to switch gears a little bit and talk about leadership and very specifically, empathic leadership has been said to be, have a big impact on attracting talent, retaining talent, but it's hard to have empathy sometimes. And I know, I saw some stats in a recent Dell study. It was like two thirds of the people felt like their organization underestimates the people requirements. And I asked myself, I'm like, hmm, what am I missing? I hope it over with our folks. So especially as it relates to transformation programs. So how can human resource practitioners support business leaders generally, specifically as it relates to leading with empathy? I think empathy has always been important. You have to develop trust. You can have the best strategy in the world, right? But if you don't feel like your leader understands who you are, appreciates the value that you bring to the company, then you're not gonna get very far. So I think empathetic leadership has always been part of the foundation of a trusting strong relationship between a leader and a team member. But if I think we look back on the last two years and I imagine it'll be even more so as we go forward. Empathetic leadership will be even more important. There's so much going on in the world, politically, socially, economically, that taking that time to say, you want your team members to see you as credible and confident that you can take us forward, but also that you know and understand me as a human being. And that to me is really what it's about. And I think with regard to transformation that you brought up, I think one of the things we forget about as leaders, we've probably been thinking about a decision or a transformation for months or weeks and we're ready to go execute. We're ready to go operationalize that thing. And so sometimes when we get to that point, because we've been talking about it for so long, we send out the email, we have the all hands and we just say we're ready to go. But our team members haven't always been on that journey for those months that we have. And so I think that empathetic moment to say, okay, not everybody is on a change curve where I am, let's take a pause with me, put myself in their shoes and really think about how we bring everybody along. You know, Jen, in the spirit of myth-busting, I mean, I'm one of those people who felt like that a business is going to have a harder time fostering this culture of collaboration and innovation and post-isolation economy as they could pre-COVID. But I noticed there's an announcement today that came across my desk. I think it's from Newsweek. Yes, and it's the list of top hundred companies recognized for employee motivation, satisfaction. It was really interesting because you always see, oh, we're the top 10 or the top hundred. But this says there's a survey of 1.4 million employees from companies ranging from 50 to 10,000 employees. And it recognizes the companies that put respect, caring and appreciation for their employees at the center of their business model and in doing so have earned the loyalty and respect of the people who work for them. Number one on the list is Dell. SAP, so congratulations. SAP was number two. I mean, there really isn't any other tech company on there. Certainly no large tech companies on there. So I always see these lists that go, yeah, okay, that's cool, top 100, whatever. But top one in an industry where there's only two in the top is pretty impressive. And how does that relate to fostering my earlier skepticism of a culture of collaboration? So first of all, congratulations. You know, how'd you do it and how are you succeeding in this new world? Well, thanks, it does feel great to be number one. But, you know, it doesn't happen by accident. And I think while most companies have a culture and a spouse values, we have ours called the culture code. But it's really been very important to us that it's not just a poster on the wall or words on paper. And so we embed our culture code into all of our HR practices, the whole ecosystem from recognition of rewards to performance evaluation, to interviewing, to development. We build it into everything. So it really reflects who we are and you experience it every day. And then to make sure that we're not fooling ourselves, we ask all of our employees, do you feel like the behaviors you see and the experience you have every day reflects the culture code? And 94% of our team members say that in fact it does. So I think that that's really been kind of a secret to our success. If you listen to Michael Dell, he'll always say, you know, the most special thing about Dell is our culture and our people. And that comes through being very thoughtful and deliberate to preserve and protect and continue to focus on our culture. Don't you think too that repetition and well, first of all, belief in that cultural philosophy is important. And then kind of repeating like you said, yeah, it's not just a poster on the wall, but I remember like, you know, when we're kids, your parents tell you, okay, power positive thinking, do you want to others as others, you know, you can have others do it to you. Don't make this, you're going to do some dumb things, but don't do the same dumb things twice. And you sort of fluff it up, but then as you mature, you say, wow, actually those were values were instilled in me and now I'm bringing them forward and paying it forward. But so I guess my point is, and it's kind of a point observation, but I'll turn it into a question, isn't consistency and belief in your values really, really important? I couldn't agree with you more, right? I think that's one of those things that we talk about it all the time. And as an HR professional, it's not the HR people just talking about our culture. It's our business leaders. It's our CEO, it's our COOs, it's our partners. We share our culture code with our partners and our vendors and our suppliers. And everybody, this is important. When we say when you interact with anybody at Dell Technologies, you should expect that this is the experience that you're going to get. And so it is something that we talk about, that we embed into everything that we do. And I think it's really important that you don't just think it's a one and done because that's not how things really, really work. Well, it's a culture of respect, high performance, high expectations, accountability and having followed the company and worked with the company for many, many years. Always respect the dignity of your partners and your people, so really appreciate your time. Jen, again, congratulations on being number one. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Okay, you've been watching a special presentation of theCUBE inside Dell Technology Summit 2022. Remember, these episodes are all available on demand at thecube.net and you can check out siliconangle.com for all the news and analysis. And don't forget to check out wikibon.com each week for a new episode of Breaking Analysis. This is Dave Vellante. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time.