 So guys, we can start the last session. First thing, I'm happy to hear that after I completed my first session, there was a lot of good discussion. At least now you guys have started using and applying, yes, AS might be needed. At least the need base, the need base which I was thinking of creating a need base, I hope that injection has been inserted. And Bakshi Sahab is here only to insert an injection. The purpose is only that. There was one very good query which was asked, especially by the new IATs and new IMs. I'll deal with that issue tomorrow, because it deals with the new IATs and IMs. They have created new buildings, temporary building for the time being. How to deal with those temporary building? How to record it as it? We'll discuss that tomorrow, because tomorrow's session, primarily will be only AS 6, AS 10 and AS 13, which is a major part, depreciation, fixed asset. There was one more query. Why I'm sharing all those queries? Because might be, it can be in your mind also. Because these are very common discussions. One query was, let's suppose I'm painting my school, will it be added to my cost? I'll discuss this tomorrow. It is defined in AS 10. AS 10 talks about revenue expenditure and the capital expenditure. So there are some different parameters for revenue and capital. Generally, I have seen people think any expenditure, which is large, is capital, which is small, is revenue. That is not. I'll take up one example and I'll proceed with today's session. Most of you sitting, most of us, I should say, sitting here, are getting a salary of, let's say, lakh per month. You sell it. But if you want to purchase one chair, what can be the cost of one chair? I don't know. How much can be cost of one chair? How much? Nine thousand, sir. One chair, one plastic chair. Come on, sir. Right, five hundred. Right, ma'am? Five hundred? Sir, you are a rich guy. I can understand. I am Calcutta, I can understand. Nine thousand. Five hundred chairs, you are showing at nine thousand. Yes. That means the first, before giving the rate, we should say which type of chair. But even, sir, either it is nine thousand chairs or five hundred chairs, both are chairs. Both you will be showing in your balance sheet under the heading for nature, isn't it? It means the amount is irrelevant. But salary, whether you get one lakh, two lakh, three lakh, you always show salary as a revenue expenditure. So kindly, I have just introduced one point. It was relevant for tomorrow's session. But as it was asked during the break, you are just hinted here. Never in your life decide on the amount. Amount is never the criteria for revenue capital. Even a single pen drive, nowadays even one GB pen drive is 100 rupees. But if you want to use pen drive for longer period, it's a asset. So there are three or four points which we will be sharing tomorrow about AS6. Now the major part is AS9, revenue recognition. Again, if you see most of the annual report, we always find AS9. They always give about revenue recognition. I was reading one annual report. It was written there. We record all the income on the accrual basis except miscellaneous receipt. Miscellaneous means any fines, any penalties, let's say. It means that they are recording cash basis. I have just mentioned AS1 until unless there is a deviation. No need to mention it. So there was a deviation. They have mentioned it. In one annual report, it was written, all income are recorded on annual except tuition fees. We record tuition if you are on the cash basis. The problem arises, as a Sarnay point raised, because of the years. The year which we take it. The year in accounts is April to March. But academic year generally starts especially in colleges. It's often July. Logically, you get a fee in July. How do you record that? AS9 only talks about that. The best part of AS, the best part of all the accounting standards are, all accounting standard deals with different issues. AS1 was only telling you how to frame the accounting policy. It means when you are preparing accounting policy, what do you keep in mind? As we took the example of sir, Maggie example we took it. It was a specific. It means accounting policy can be different. Then we took example. The primary is it should not hide anything. Then we took a secondary consideration. We took example Sandeep at that time. Then we took the example of assumptions. It means AS1 only talks about how to prepare accounting policy and what to be disclosed, what not to be disclosed. One of my statement was misinterpreted. Let me clarify. I said that you can revise your accounting policy every year whenever new things come. I told you that it was understood in this way that you can change your accounting policy and number of times. Sorry. No. No. AS1, AS5, AS6, AS2 mentions clearly about change in accounting policy. I will be discussing it tomorrow. Accounting policy can be only changed if three reasons allows. Law says accounting standard says and better presentation. What detail may I will be discussing tomorrow? I will be discussing tomorrow. Now another point which was asked by most sir about presentation. I will be giving my presentation here also. I will be uploading that presentation on my website also. You just, today's presentation, I will be putting it here. Just click latest events, you will get the presentation, all presentations. Now AS9 basically talks about revenue recognition. If I say revenue first, we should understand what is revenue here. It is very, very pertinent for every one of us. Everyone of us I am telling you. Recognition means timing. When to record the entry. Sir, your query was in Bhopal. When to record the entry. This AS only talks about when to record the entry. I will take four or five examples here. Very less in presentation. I never believe in PPTs. If I just show you, I hope most of us must have visited this website. Which website? Flipkart, Amazon, eBay. These are those websites. I think most of us must have done at least minimum one shopping. Have you ever realized if I booked the order today? 11th May, quarter past four. My order will be placed. I am clicking COD, cash on delivery. It is no payment made. They will immediately generate me a receipt number, order number, a tracking number. If you have seen properly at any time, if you have gone down, there is a one help, cancellation and returns. If you see the cancellations and returns, they have on different items. If you see, they are saying in the third last line, exchange or refund backed by the 30 days replacement guarantee. It means if I am placing a pendrive order today, 11th, guarantee it will not be delivered to me today. Maybe tomorrow, right? Maybe thereafter tomorrow, 13th. Now, if UV or any one of us is the accountant for Flipkart, whether I should make sale entry on 11th at quarter past four or I should make the entry on 13th when the goods are delivered or I should wait for 30 days because even if it is delivered on 13th, even if it is delivered on 13th, until there is a possibility it might be returned. If it is returned, then money will be back. It is not a sale. It is not a sale. So, in this AS we are only talking about, only discussing when to pass the entry. You see, you get admission fee, you get fines, penalties, examination fees, research, workshop fees. There are a lot of amount. Let's take this workshop example. If I am assuming it that this workshop is a paid workshop, I remember we started working for this workshop in the month of April. Let's suppose we have started in the month of March. So logically, some of you might have paid in the month of March. Some of you might have paid in the month of April. Some of you might have just paid in May. Then logically, IIT has to decide whether money received by March is an income of last year or of current year. Any amount which is received later should be recorded when. It only talks about this. The easiest way to understand the entire accounting standard only talks about three points. Revenue from goods, revenue from services and revenue from others. The entire presentation may be covered. In different ways, I will be taking it. If I take one example, let's suppose this is a pen drive which has been ordered. That's a water bottle I have ordered through Flipkart. On 11th May, I have booked through COD, cash on delivery. Immediately, they will be received. Now, first question, should I record it on 11th? First. Now on 13th, a courier guy comes. Let's suppose he's a courier guy. He wants to deliver this to me. When I book this order, it was written there. Along with this water bottle, there will be one sketch pen free. Logically, when he is giving me this water bottle, this sketch pen also has to be given by him. When he is giving me the water bottle, I have received this on 13th. If I receive the water bottle, it means he has given me this. But has he given me the reward, the free gift? Tell me now, should I pay him or not? Should I pay him or not? Why? Terms and conditions are not being satisfied. In terms of AS, it is known as risk and reward. This was risk. This was reward. Suppose if I take one more example here, he is giving me this and he drops this. Tell me, will I pay? As a customer, I will not pay. It means condition is not satisfied. It is not transferred to me. Similarly, if you are offering a service, until unless service has been delivered to a person, no. Now, let us suppose one more. If he gives me both, both. Thank you. He gives me both. It means on 11th may order placed. On 13th, I have got the risk. I have got the reward. Now, he says, give me the money. He says, give me the money. I took out a gun. I took out a knife as a rush. I am not paying any money. You want to save your life or money? Logically, he will save your life. It goes back. When it goes back and he informs Flipkart, I have given the goods, but I have not got the cash. And there is no chance of recovering the cash. When a person has clearly said, if you come and ask me the cash, I will kill you. Guaranteed. Tell me there is a certainty of the money being received or not. Will you get the money or not? Very good. Legal action. He is saying, legal action, very good. You take a legal action. It means it is only one example. It means when there is a chance that money will not be recovered, at least wait till now you have not passed the entry. Why? What is the hurry? What is the hurry to pass the entry? AS says very clearly ownership should be transferred. That is a bill. Bill should be in your name. Second, goods should have been delivered to you. And there should be an assurance from the party that they will pay the money. If there is no assurance, there is uncertainty, right? Then guaranteed you do not record it. Like at this workshop, until unless the confirmation doesn't come, they will never book anything for you guys. Simple. It means uncertainty. Exactly in anyone, anyone's organization example. Any case where let's suppose you have made an application for some grants and you are not sure whether the grant will be received or not. Until unless it is actually received, don't make an entry. Don't make an entry. I will take one example. In your case, there was one case which came to our office. There was one private school I am talking about. They came to us. They said, sir, we are planning to, we are planning to revise our tuition fee. I said, very good. Do it. They said, no, sir, we have come here with a very specific query. I said, what's the query? They said we want to increase the tuition fee, not from April. They came to me in the month of April. They came to me in the month of April. They said, we are not increasing from April. We are increasing from backwards from January onwards. I said, how is it possible? Students must have already paid a fees for January, February, March. Fees is quarterly paid in advance. No parent will pay you. They said, no, sir, we are private school. We will hold the result of the students. Unless and until their parent doesn't pay us the increased fees. Now you tell me, who will pay the backward fees? January, February, March. Is it 100% sure it will be received or there is a doubt? There is a doubt. Very clearly. I said to them very clearly. Our AS9 clearly said in such transactions, which is in starting doubtful. Starting is doubtful. So please wait. Unless and until you get the money. Do not make an entry. Otherwise, what will happen? You will make the entry assuming they had 1000 students and they were increasing the fees 1000. So 1000 to 1000. How much it becomes? Ma'am, your math was very good. Sorry, 10 lakh. Sir, 1000 to 1000. Right? Ma'am has taught me the math also. Very good. 10 lakh. It means 10 lakh rupees. I said to them, if you make a revenue entry of 10 lakh, you will show in your books. It was a private school. You have to pay a tax. You will pay a tax right now. Right? And let's suppose parent doesn't pay you. And what happens? You have to again apply for the refund, everything, a long process. Follow the AS. AS says very clearly. AS says unless and until it is assured. Don't even pass the entry. At present, I am only discussing those cases when uncertainty is before the entry. Before the entry. I will discuss those cases also, which comes after. Before the entry. Let's take one more case. Let's take one more case. I'll pick some young guy. Sorry, your name? Anup Sharma. I am taking one example. I am taking one example. Anup, some different example, apart from studies. But to explain this. Let's suppose... Are you married? No, you're very good. I had lived like this. Brilliant. Let's suppose Mr. Anup is in love. Is in love with a girl. Do you have anyone? Tell me your name. I'll keep the name. Let's suppose he is in love with a girl. Let's name him XYZ. What I am taking, I am just explaining the conditions. So you can understand the... When you are judging in the real life, those things can strike you. He went and proposed a girl and gave a gift, let's say diamond ring and said, I am giving you a 15 days trial period. 15 days trial period, whether you say yes or no. He came back, said to his mother, Mama, be ready for my marriage. Mama has chosen a girl. He said, yes, I have selected a girl. I have already gifted and after 15 days we are going and guaranteed marriage will be done. Mother said, what are the conditions? He said, very clearly. I have told her very, very clearly. 15 days trial period, if in these 15 days you don't say yes or no, 16 days I will come and take you. It means if time period expires and sale is done, same in Flipkart. If a time period, let's say 30 days expires, then will Flipkart take your goods back? No. It applies to us also. We always say refund policy in a new admission. If a student has taken admission in IIT, let's say Bombay and he has got admission in, let's say, IIT Kharagpur, then he may take a transfer. Is it possible? If someone has taken admission in IIT Delhi and for transfer, are students permitted? No. But in case of colleges, it is allowed. IIT may, maybe, rule is not there, but in DUR, University of Delhi, that rule is allowed. If I have taken admission, let's say, in Hindu College and in the second list, my name comes in SRCC, then logically I'll cancel the admission of Hindu College, I'll go to the SRCC and my fees have to be refunded. They always give us a time period. Take the admission, take the example today. My daughter, she's three years, a younger one, I've just admitted her in a nursing admission. So if I have taken admission in one school and now if she has got admission in one other school, I'll cancel the previous one, take the fees back, right, and get the admission in a new school. Each school gives a time period. Within this, come, otherwise your money will be four feet each or will not be refunded. Exactly here. As in case of Anoop, before 15 days, there's always an uncertainty. But after 15, there's an assurance if girl doesn't say yes or no, assurance that sale will be done. But within 15 days, if girl say yes, marriage will be done or not. Fakka ji, it means in flipkart, after placing the order, after week, I phone, I mail, I give a letter to flipkart, yes, I'm happy with your goods, I'm not returning it back. It's come out like sale has been done. It means if a student writes to you, I have taken admission here, I'm not coming for the refund. I don't have a time. If you give it fair enough, if you don't give it, ignore it. It means that refund will become your income at that point. Otherwise refund, you cannot show your income. What happens? We show all the fees immediately. The moment we receive the fees, we show it. But please understand, you should not, especially in the new admission, especially if cancellations are allowed, you should never, never, never record it because there's a possibility that you might have to refund the money back. That is the reason, wait. Until and unless, certainty is there. Do not record the entry. Record the entry when all the transactions are complete. To record the, because we all are here primarily dealing in services. Services can be dealt in two ways. One is completed contract method. Completed contract method. Completed means, if Mr. Bakshi had, suppose has given me a contract for two years, and he says, you take end number of workshop, agreement is let's say 2 lakh rupees. One way is, I will not record 2 lakh as my income, unless all the workshop are completed. I'll only complete all the workshop, get 2 lakh rupees check, and record it in that year. But tell me, is it advisable? Tell me, is it advisable to record 2 lakh in one year? What's, what is my loss in that? Higher tax. My entire tax will be divided on 2 lakh rupees. So our air stays very clearly. If you're not falling completed, simple. Follow the percentage completion method. Percentage means stages wise. If in two years, in the first year, I've completed 10 workshops, so 1 lakh is my revenue. That 1 lakh, whether I've received or not, I have just taken a lecture. He has not paid me a fee. But still, it is my revenue. Now he can't refuse it. It's accrual. That is accrual. Now I can't, now I can pass the entry. Assurance. Make sure before making a sale entry, before making a revenue entry, because there's a major risky entry for you guys. Because even income tax department primarily looks at that part. Auditor mainly looks at that part. So when you're making your revenue entry, fees, admission fees, membership fees, workshop fees, subscriptions, are expenditures for you guys. Whenever you receive this grant, you are receiving it. If grant is a conditional grant, this anand will be taking in years 12. Let's suppose CA institute gives a grant to me and says, Pankaj, you go and teach in a backward region. We will not charge any money from you, no tax. We will tell you to income tax department for 5 years. If I go there, settle there, my condition is fulfilled. In that case, only then I can record the revenue. So kindly, kindly make sure that you will not record it unless it is certain. The entire point is only two things. First, there should be certainty or the assurance of the money to be received. If you have a doubt, wait for it. Do not even record it. Mr. Raman, let's suppose, is a charter accountant. He has done MBA from Ahem-Amdabad. Must be having a very good package. He came to a private jeweler. He came to a private jeweler. He said, sir, I have done CA. I am the MBA from Ahem-Amdabad. I have seen your products. You are mainly into diamond jewelry and gold jewelry. I can increase your sales, increase your sales, increase your revenue 10 times. Let's suppose I am the jeweler. I said very good. I immediately asked my manager a point in. He was appointed as a manager. What he did? He started artificial jewelry in my business. I was dealing in gold, diamond. He started artificial jewelry also. He visited a lot of schools, colleges. Maximum girls are now fascinated by the artificial jewelry. So he made huge sales, huge sales. But there was a catch. There was a catch. He has written there if you do not find it good, kindly get it replaced within 30 days. After one year, I checked the result. The sale graph, the sale graph of artificial jewelry was from zero to this high point. I was very happy. His sales have increased. I immediately asked my manager, show me the cash. He said, what cash? Not even a single amount of cash. Not even a single rupee cash. I said, he is showing the graph of sales is this. Where the cash has gone? Tell me, where the cash has gone? Yes. Ma'am, assurances any? What are the conditions? 30 days. Girls were so smart. Girls were so smart. The credit sale, right? Girls were so smart. 29th of every month girls came, said my husband and like it. My boyfriend and like it. They exchange the jewelry and do the new one. So logically, the old jewelry was given and new was taken. Again a new 30 days period. I am telling you a real life case. Real life case. What? Sales zero. And what he did? He showed sales assuming. He showed sales on a cruel basis. Assuming cash will come. Girls were so smart. There was no cash. You were showing sales as an income. You were showing debtors, your customers. But there was a guaranteed because there was a replacement period. The risk that girls might return all the goods. It means you should not have recorded it as a sales. Unless your 30 days period is clear. To make sure if in any item it's very tough for me also to know about each and every item of the institution. But at a KCB item at any point of time if you face that there is a some condition. Problem that revenue might not be recorded. Wait. Can anyone share any example because it's very tough for me to know the revenue structure of the organization. Any example. There has been a time where refund conditions are there where days are pointed. Sir fees as I know, maximum is taken in advance. Fees generally taken in advance. Exactly same thing I am saying. You don't record it as a revenue. What I am saying. Entry. Revenue. Sir accounts is very clear. You got the bank. Credit. Credit can be I am very very clear for me entire accounts is LIC. If I give the rules, I don't know how you guys have learned the rules. It's very simple rule. I, C, L, I, C. L is liability. Income. I is income, C is capital. L is liability, I is income, C is capital. LIC remember all liability, all income, all capital always credit. Always. So you got the bank. Credit may don't record income. Take it as a refundable. Take it as a refundable. Even Anand will tell you AS 12 with the grants may. Any grant which is refundable grant until unless conditions are fulfilled, you don't record just anything. You show it as a refundable grant. When it becomes the income it goes there. Income side. At least postpone it. Any other example? Yes ma'am. So three months is income received in advance. Nine months is income received for services rendered. Then about the contractual income say like rent when we give rent on building. Of course rent for March, a cruise in March but they will pay in April. So rent for till March can be taken on a cruise. That is a sure income. And what cannot be taken on a cruise basis is only occasional levies like fines. These are occasional. So these can certainly not be accounted on a cruise basis. These will be on realization only. And then about the you were saying about until the refund period is over. So actually in practice what do we do? We take it as income. But we as we refund we reduce the income. That entry is passed. Because the refund will happen in one month. It is not allowed throughout the year. It happens within one month. So that is the way what we do. So anyway it is just a matter of sharing. You perfectly fine. Even that is also one of the way. Because AS just advises you if there is uncertainty, if possible you postpone it. Even the treatment which ma'am is saying is perfectly fine. You record it and let's suppose later refund it, you reverse the entry. If I am saying bank to income, when you refunding it, they are income to bank. That is the reduced from it. Let's suppose you have recorded the income. You have written the entry bank account of it to income. Entry is over. After 5 months, 6 months, right. Person, let's suppose I am the student of IIT Bombay. I am just assuming it. And if I have paid a quarterly fees July, August, September. Agreed? I have paid the fees. Now let's suppose I have not paid for October. I have not paid for November. I have not paid for December. That's a January. I know by that time they will ask me to leave. I know it. But I am assuming it. January, that's a February and March. I have not paid. And you are recording the income on an equitable basis. It means then I must have passed the entry from July to September. If I have paid on 1st July, then guaranteed all of you must have passed this entry. Can you give us? Let's suppose if October to December January to March I have not paid the fees. And you are recording on an equitable basis. Equal means I have not paid the fees but I am your student. You will record the income. Right? So guaranteed you will write fees. Right sir? Receivable to agreed? Same here. Let's suppose fees is 1000 1000 and 1000. In income expenditure you will show your fees 3000. In your balance sheet you will show bank and fees receivable. Are you okay sir? Now what I am taking is if you are recording fees on an equitable basis then what can be the points which you may face or which you might be facing? Let's suppose one student doesn't pay the fees and he is making a request on every month basis. There is some family problem will pay the fees. His father comes give the assurance and your principal agrees okay let's wait. But let's suppose this person has not paid for two months. Is there 100% chance that money will be received or there is a doubt? There is a doubt. But the problem is now you have already passed the entry and in accounts the problem is you don't have an eraser. Accounts may never run. You can't erase this entry. That is the reason AS is very clear. AS scatters no issue. If you have passed the entry and later you realized that this revenue might not be recoverable. Might not be received. No issue. Might are not said actual. May. We have just done in AS 1 prudence. It means if it is not received your loss please create a provision. It means very simple. If this is a date 11th May if before 11th May you are not sure about revenue. Don't pass the entry. Wait. If you can wait. If you want to pass the entry make it later if there is uncertainty immediately create a provision. Immediately create a provision. When you are framing your accounting policies for revenue recognition I am not teaching AS. I am just focusing on accounting policies. Because if your policies are right in your accounting policies in revenue recognition right in this way revenue all revenues are recorded as per AS 9. It means they are recorded when there is a certainty. If there is an uncertainty we have created a provision. That is a provision is 10%. So logically it comes. Any comments from the teacher? This provision is actual or estimated. It means it can be revised. You will be dealing with one AS AS 5. AS 5 may have changed in accounting estimate. It is not fixed. No one stops you. No one stops you. It is allowed. Because estimate is only the judgment. And we have just done judgment is always allowed. Provided you a justification. So simple logic if before postpone it otherwise provision. Now comes major three more three more in this. How you guys record interest? Interest. Interest on fixed deposits on investments. How you record it? Acrobases. If I have made FD on 1st July and you are maintaining as per March. How many months? 9 months. It means you are recording on time basis. Even AS says same. Any interest should be recorded on time basis. Any interest is recorded on time basis. That most of you must be doing it. So if you are doing it the best logic is just specify as per AS. The major which I hope and I am not sure might be in your case is Royalty. Any of the institution because Royalty is only given to authors. Royalty is generally given to authors. Right? Author skill. I have two, three books. The agreement is between me and the publisher. But is there any possibility that any agreement is between organization? Are there any examples? I got it. Online decimal is a concept. Right? What he is saying, I remember two years earlier for one of the organization I prepared a proposal for it. CBSE always takes out the advertisement for online tests. And some external agency comes they bid for the proposal. They give their rates. And that rate is being shared. It's like a franchisee. Even in some organization I remember MDI Gurugama. I am maybe I don't know. If I am doing I am a part of let's say I am and I have got a project of the World Bank then logically consulting fees I will be getting it. If I am the employee of the I am then consulting fee will not be given to me. It will be given directly to the I am. Then I am will be giving it to me. Because agreement is not between me and the World Bank now agreement will be between you and the World Bank. Again that consulting fees because consulting fee has agreement over there. It is not required on cash basis. In my World Bank agreement I get my bill after 20 days but that does not mean that I will not record the revenue. It means for April I get on 20th May for May on 20th June for March I get on 20th April but I record it as a revenue of March. Reason? Given the agreement I have given my time sheet even though I get a payment later irrelevant irrelevant. Why I am raising this point AS-9 is very clear. The purpose of these 3 days is only not to teach you something just to tell you when you write in your final account financial statement you can justify that this is as per AS and that justification gives a confidence when you are discussing with statute auditor, C&H auditor you can say it is given here I will just example as you were mentioning sir they were queried during the break sir doing a received site what is the rule? Where it is written? Auditor were asking. So just mention it is written here. So in Revenue Recognition there is clearly written about royalty no time basis nothing royalty is as per agreement yeah please please go sir no no next you must have recorded for January March you can't record it sorry no you cannot sir let me take it let's suppose if I have made a okay sorry sorry I was very clear you can't record April to March what symbol is this? here let me repeat the query the query is that on 1st January FD is done and on 30th and for 6 months FD okay common example for any organization individual anyone on 31st March when I am preparing my balance sheet logically for 3 months I have not received it because it gets compounded, added so TDS will be directed for those 3 months if applicable right let's suppose in the month of April I get it matured each bank cuts 1% if it is 9% they will give you 8% right there will be a very minor variation but please understand the entry which you have made for outstanding you have not made on 31st March you must have made it in April or May before finalization of your balance sheet till that date till that date if you have matured your FD right then logically you will only record the actual interest as accrued because receive will be later but if till the date of balance sheet as whenever I am asking most of you maximum of you it means till May if FD is not matured then guarantee 3 months interest will be shown in your books next year when you record it your actual interest will come but if before finalization you close your FD then logically here comes AS5 AS4 AS4 says event occurring after balance sheet date it is after balance sheet date but pertains to previous year so immediately you will not show now FD in your books and you will record the actual interest and you will show in your notes that this is the actual interest what is the concept you have already accrued if balance sheet date till that is matured very good then as per the date as per that you will make the actual entry otherwise you will adjust that in the next year so royalty I was discussing I only take one point the major is the royalty part royalty is accrual basis according to the terms of the agreement now there was one query where I took the session Chennai and Delhi this tell me how you do it this was a common question which I will ask how the fee waiver given to student after academic session is over to be accounted in the books one query ask in Chennai and Delhi how you guys do it question for you you can dive into it I come to tuition fee then we have to reverse that credit that and debit this next time debit that and credit the bank perfectly fine it means when you receive the tuition fee bank to tuition fee one is a direct entry which you can do it tuition fee to bank reverse refund card that generally happens when let's suppose it is given in the condition if you perform well then your fees will be refunded by coaching institutes generally happens a coaching institute they take the fees and then they say if you get the first rank, second rank your entire fees will be refunded might be may be in future you may get any such policy always when you receive make a normal entry and when the refund actual comes at that time you are recording the cash basis actual basis again a query which was asked at that time so that was my AS9 way any doubt of AS1, AS9 any common query I am through sir please for conducting some workshops or something while passing the receivable entry we will pass that receivable entry and sorry that receivable account for example the receivable program fee, credit and the service tax credit we were thinking we may get afterwards as well as we will pay the service tax also and how about that if that program cancelled or something how about we have to calculate how about reverse the service tax in a service tax there is a reversal charge you have to apply it to the service tax department when you are filing a service tax return it has a reversal charge you have to claim that in that case in that case we can issue credit note to the party and the service tax charge earlier can be adjusted against my current liability and that has to be adjusted in the ST return also service tax return may be adjusted sir even we can do for previous years also I will take an example you must be knowing it in service tax I don't know whether you guys are aware or not I am just sharing you this is the latest part I hope you guys must be knowing it I am just sharing it with everyone because you are guaranteed must be applicable to you guys if my professional fees is 100 my service tax is 10 so my bill I will be raising for 110 and if TDS rate is 20% kindly tell me this TDS you apply on 100 on 10 100 how many of you are saying 110 100 sir ma'am ma'am till March till 31st March it was 110 there is a yes ma'am there is a notification now I am just sharing for everyone yes but applicable everywhere notification date this month this hamburger yes so kindly just now it is only on 100 earlier before April it used to be on 110 and it was a loss it was a loss for the consultants because from 10 they used to cut 2 rupees I used to get 8 rupees because I was a sufferer I know it when World Bank used to pay me they used to cut on the total amount and I used to get 8 rupees but when I had to deposit to the services department I had to deposit 10 that 2 rupees extra I was depositing it but now it is very very clear so there were 2 queries query was let's suppose for this workshop IIT Bombay has made the entry they are assuming it the participant will come so immediately they are saying workshop fees workshop fees receivable to workshop fee let's say to service tax fees let's say is 100 tax is 10 now in service tax all of you know it is based on point of taxation so immediately you have the moment you bill is a bill and you have to go for the service cost his point was that suppose in future this workshop get cancelled out or some participant doesn't turn up so that's extra service tax which you have pay to the department how to adjust that one was perfectly right if it's a case of party you should create note and adjust it but that is only possible if other party is also registered with this services department if other party is not registered like a student if you charge from a student service tax that student is not registered ideally when the client he has the service tax registration number then only I can charge service tax but I will charge service tax take a very simple example lot of lot of organizations are charging let's suppose on 50,000 fees from a student 50,000 plus service tax in academic area service tax is not applicable it is an exempted area fees received from the student only in case I know you don't have to pay for it because you are a government organization just when the point come I am discussing it okay whenever any coaching fee any tuition fee service tax is imposed on that right I will take an example I am taking my classes from each student if we charge 10,000 on 10,000 we take service tax right consultancy is separate no it is not fees in the academic area where we are pursuing flexible course I cannot charge service tax I agree but I am just clarifying it point when I started my consulting my income was less than 10,000,000 right I was not covered in the service tax but my client was taking from the world bank but he will not pay to me because I was not registered but now because I am registered so logically I raise my bill with service tax and they pay back me service tax the rule which you are saying that service tax bill can only be raised if a party is registered no service tax is that concept whereby you pay for the mobile right even though if you are not registered with service tax our register is not in service tax all the mobile bills you pay service tax all telephone bill you pay all electricity bill you pay or is anyone of here is registered with service tax 90% say no but still you pay service tax yes sir I am just clarifying that point it is not necessary when you charge service tax it is not necessary that opposite party it is indirect tax definitely when I am buying soap from a shopkeeper the soap that the shopkeeper is selling on which service tax has been added and I am buying it he charged you your number is not there for example external services external services when I am talking for example outside services before 2013 notification the basic wages then the EPF then the ESI it makes let's say 10,000 rupees then the service tax has to be levied on this 10,000 total while these two are the statutory compulsory services like ESI EPF so should was that the correct formalization that is the reason they have changed it even this was wrong earlier they were charging on they were cutting TDAs 110 which was the wrong part that is the reason immediately they made a clarification now it is only on the grocery in fact they didn't correct it they said that this comes under auxiliary service and that is why they exempted they will never I agree but they will never accept their mistake but logically it is a mistake it was a mistake they don't cut on tax already they don't cut on tax absolutely sir for you if you do it for some private then it will be there is no need to provide we are not like in this workshop I have charged a bill I will not raise service tax because ICI is exempt and therefore even I am also exempt whenever I charge I take my class as ICI whenever I raise a bill I never charge a service tax but I take my class as a satellite also ICI has outstored satellite to someone outside that payment is done by outside agency so outside agency is not exempted if let's suppose tomorrow we will start some dislearning courses and they outsold the payment part to the outside agency exemption will not be given to that party that party has to charge or pay service tax my bank has given interest on fixed deposit on 1st of April whether it should be taken as interest receivable or it should be shown in the bank reconciliation interest receivable on 1st of April they have credited their deposit sir if 1st of April interest receivable or credit so on 31st of March what will happen there is a doubt on 1st of April their bank has credited the interest in their bank I will book it on receivable basis on 31st of March I will debit the accounts receivable and I will give the interest in it bank will not be seen as act sir this is called BRS I will take a very simple example generally I did this to cash book 1 day less on 31st of March 10,000 and 10,000 cash book 10,000 pass book at least on 31st of March you are both the balance you are matching right so logically it is irrelevant 1st of April your bank balance is here I am not bothered about this and madam is right BRS balance sheet are as act and I am telling you I am just sharing one more thing I don't know whether anyone has clarified this or not people generally say some write as on some write as act and generally we use it interchangeably both are same tell me which one we are using it as on as act how many of you think as act 1 2 and as on other people as on if you ask me as a CA I will sign on this balance sheet I will never sign on as on I will sir I am clearing this sign isn't on as act I will just in front of you I will open the balance sheet and then let's check it I will open the balance sheet in front of you I can open numerous balance sheet good balance sheet if it is prepared by a good CA they will always write as act there is a reason for it reason is when I signed the balance sheet let's say both balance sheet are signed but balance sheet when signed start in minutes if I am saying let's say 5pm it means after 5pm in today's date anything happens in a company account I am not responsible but as on means 24 hours I will be still responsible if anything happens after 5 till 12 midnight no CA no good CA will take an onus here never and you check any balance sheet any balance sheet if you are not doing it kindly write from start and start writing as act write what to be used I was saying that although you have given a lot of frustrations number of frustrations from various banks showing act this act is being used because of time I was trying to make out although you have given frustrations number of banks are using act and other balance sheet but the justification that you have given because of the time signing time the act is used doesn't seem to be very convincing because time is relevant relative term it doesn't standard time we have different usually this as on is standard accounts practices that we have been doing time factor doesn't seem to be very convincing no sir I think there is a query that in as on as act it is said that it is a standard practice frankly speaking standard practice we always say anywhere we just see different balance sheet we see different books we say everywhere as on we follow that we follow common parlance everyone is doing it let's do it but whenever you see while time factor whenever we say act means exactly at that point and not beyond that but it is just my way of taking it sir no sir thinking as a accountant as a CA point of view you see there are lot of frauds which are being done if a BOD meeting let's suppose if AGM and director meeting is done in the morning and have signed the balance in the morning if anyone has to done the changes they can do the changes and raise it sir is this convention mentioned in advance account say no Shukla Griwal Shukla Griwal and the they are sir if you want to know the book where from where I have learned it you come to me after the class I show the book to you I show the book to you see as on we used to follow it but after corporate governance after the lot of fraud scams no one is following as on otherwise just see companies like ICD bank reliance are not fools even they can use as on I can show you reliance balance sheet I can show you pro-inforces all good balance sheet showing as that see banks might be using banks have a different scope reliance is not a bank I know bank schedule 16 bank regulation act is separate this is revised schedule 6 as that any good CA I am here to tell you the right thing any good we have been following it when I was a student even I was told as on that time balance sheet minutes sir there is no relevance otherwise you have a logic date is the same date is the same and even bank reconciliation take one more example BRS let's suppose I will open my online account let me open my online account and as do my bank reconciliation 520 I will write BRS if I say BRS as on 11th May 2014 it means is for the entire day but is it guaranteed that after 520 I will not withdraw from ATM if I write as that it means only till 520 if bank reconciliation we write BRS BRS I can go to ATM right now to 6 o'clock let's say withdraw the cash my bank balance will change balance will change sir cash book has not entered it is off but bank will change always remember if you want to frankly speaking even CAG auditor will not write any comment on this tomorrow right tomorrow we will start with 10 o'clock and we will take the major session of fix asset thank you