 Peter Obe's campaign council plans replacement as Doño Cupe resigns, and Dumebika Chiku Jubilete as court sacks Mosulet ADC Exco. This is Plus Politics, and I am Mary Anacoff. The Chief Spokesperson of the Obe Dacty Campaign Council, Yuna Satanko, has said in a meeting that a meeting will soon hold to decide who will replace Doño Cupe as the council's director general. This was after Obe announced on Tuesday that he was stepping down from the role of his role as DG following a judgment of a federal high court sitting in Abuja that convicted him of violating the Money Lundry Act. In a letter addressed to the Labour Party presidential candidate, Peter Obe, the ex-aid of the former president, Goodlock Jonathan, said he was stepping down because he didn't want his travails to be a source of distraction to the campaign. Meanwhile, the National Deputy Campaign Manager, Obe Dacty Presidential Campaign Headquarters, David Balamy, on Tuesday described as untrue his alleged replacement of Obe as the director general. He described the publication with the caption, Labour Party may announce Isaac Balamy as O'Cupe's replacement as fallacious, baseless and false. Now joining us to discuss this is Adene Ikunu, he is a political analyst and a researcher, and Tungi Abdulameed, who is a member of the People's Democratic Party, and also a legal practitioner. It's so good to have you join us gentlemen. Thank you very much for having us. It's a pleasure to join your program today. Thank you. Great, great, great. I'm going to start with you, Adene. Let's, I mean the whole country has watched all of this play out in the space of a week as Donio Cupe has gone from a spokesman of the party to someone who's been convicted for money laundering. But many people are wondering how well the Labour Party handled this situation. So I'll ask you as an outsider looking in for a party that would be termed as a movement or the new tsunami that seems to be sweeping across the country. Did they handle this situation with Donio Cupe very well? Well, I don't know how else you handle a public matter, especially something that everybody has seen to be what one should not have or to associate with a campaign digi of a political party. I've said it many times before, myself being a part of Nigeria's political process. That is a difficult terrain when you find yourself. Before I was ever announced the spokesperson to the presidential candidate of the ADC, they did background checks and found out that we are not the type who perhaps are doing double dealings here and there before they eventually announced to the world that I'll be speaking on behalf of His Excellency Dumebe Kachuku. And when I hear that Donio Cupe, who is the digi of his campaign, collected about $240 million in cash, which on the six charges preferred against him, I told myself that for a bit of who had headed the state and for any appointment he had made in the past, he ensured due diligence before those persons became part of his government. He must have and should have done due diligence before eventually accepting to appoint Donio Cupe to be his campaign digi. Many persons are not comfortable with my position of the matter. But for a bit of a bit that has actually headed government and who definitely has ensured a proper scrutiny of his appointees as a two-time governor of an Ambra State would have done the same, bearing in mind that this is a higher office that he intends to occupy. So on the part of Donio Cupe, many people want us to look at the fact that he resigned because of this particular issue. But I wasn't even expecting less of him because when anything of this nature rubs off on you as somebody who is helping a presidential candidate, the best thing to do is to resign. So wanting us to paint it in gold and platinum that he did what is honorable is because we live in a country where when people do normal things, they are looked at as superstars. In the land where people have eyesight problem, a man who perhaps doesn't see clearly is their king. And I need to say here that perhaps because we don't see such acts referred to as honorable, it is a proper thing to do. So let us not look at Donio Cupe as honorable. It is a proper thing to do when you have such indictment against you. Don't forget that you actually have to sleep somewhere near the prisons until he was able to pay 13 million. And I bearing in mind that each of the transition accounts had an attraction of about 500,000 for him to pay. So having said that, I think that we can move forward and give a sovereign. But there is another thing that surprises me is the particular refutation of the fact that Donio Cupe has resigned as his campaign DG. I saw the letter I wrote and the letter I wrote came on the letterhead of the Labour Party. So it makes me wonder again, if at all this is just politicking, a man was charged, the world saw he was charged. He paid 13 million not to remain in jail. He afterwards wrote the letter. So do we say that the people who have come across in recent time as somebody who wants to set Niger on the path of justice, equity, fairness and proper democratic activities will not go back to a man that has been indicted. So it's a very interesting development for me. And I must say that greater days of interest are ahead and we can only go further to have those things done. So that's how I want to open up the programme this evening. Interesting. Let me come to you, Tunji, picking up from where, Adani, you dropped off. I ask again, how well do you think that the Labour Party dealt with this issue and handled it? I will I'll tell you where I'm coming from. The Labour Party had put out a statement before he even went on to step down as DG and it was titled, What happened to a Kukbe was a political ambush. This was by the Labour Party. And I'm wondering, many have queried it, many have said, many have fallen behind this particular publication saying, well, yes, it seems more like a political witch hunt on the Labour Party and he's just a small fish in the big fry. So I'm asking again here, did the Labour Party do the right thing and how well did they handle it, especially with this publication? I will not say they've done the right thing or they've not done the right thing. Because using the adjective the right thing is not appropriate in this respect, in this circumstance, because as it is, the Chief Duryokupi and the Labour Party, particularly, has no choice. They have no choice than to, therefore, Chief Duryokupi to leave the party, to leave the position as DG, even the party that calls himself, and what's he called, Mr, the clean party, the party that doesn't pay sushi. You see, the point is that people are missing, people are praising Chief Okupi or the Labour Party or justifying the fact that Duryokupi is now an hero because he designs appointments that probably are missing issue up. There's a difference between somebody who's facing trial, who has been alleged of an offence that his trial is ongoing and is holding a position and a refusal to resign, depending on when the matter will be over. With a person who has already been convicted, he has been convicted of offences. People are trying to also justify by trying to draw a decision to say, look, he was not convicted of corruption. I don't understand what you mean by not being convicted of corruption. He was convicted. So I'm wondering, Tunji, because when you say, I know you're a lawyer, so you're trying to explain to us the difference between a convicted felon and, of course, someone who's being alleged to commit a crime. Now, in this case, would you have rather had a Pete Albee and his campaign team jump in front of this and distance themselves from this particular situation as opposed to putting out that statement? Or could they have just immediately thrown the man under the bus because you know they are the, like in your words, the clean party? What would you have rather they did? You see, the point is that what I'm trying to say is that, look, they have no other option than for Chief of Cooper to leave the party and to leave the position as the DJ of the party, because if they're not leaving the party, that's not going to do with Nigeria. It has a lot to do with the party, losing his value and his reputation. So even if the Chief of Cooper did not resign, I bet you by now will have been asked to set the circuit because a party who prime me serve as a clean party will not be seen to be in that circumstance. I don't want to agree that they are actually a clean party in that circumstance because you have like, I didn't even say, this question arise, was there no due diligence because this case is not today. These are over seven years ago. So people who are even saying it's against Labour Party or it's a witch hunt or whatever, I don't want to agree with them because it didn't start yesterday, it didn't start two years ago, seven years ago. And at the time it was appointed and it's been, it's become a member of a Labour Party because it's already in court. So I don't know how that relates to, it's because of Labour Party, that's why he was conflicted. I was given that, I don't want to agree with that. You see, in Nigeria, the problem we have is that and tell us the truth and move forward. We try to justify every issue, particularly when that's in support of our intent. You see, the point it is, whether or not it has to do with corruption because people are trying to use technicality to say what the cost said was that he collected a raw cash, 200 million plus. The question is, what was that money meant for? Where is the money today? What did he do with the money? Has he been able to account as to where he took the money to? Has he been able to tell us where he gave the money to? And what was the money meant for? But is that also not the reason why many people have queried why now? Why not before he became DG? Okope has been walking free this whole time. For the past seven years, like you have said, why did he take this long? Well, you might say it's the cut processes, but why now? Because a lot of people are querying the timing. Why now? I might want to toss this over to Adeni because a lot of people are picking holes in this. As much as we know this is a judicial process, many would not in any way want to take it without a pinch of salt, Adeni. Well, let's make this clear that when we talk about the moments that justice is dispensed in any case, I think we need to direct our questions to courts. Generally, the position of law courts in the country and the time that justice is dispensed is usually a problematics regarding the discussions we have in different circles. Whenever people actually go to court, it is not only in this case. With bad instances where people have to go to court and they wait many years, even not on dispensation of criminal justice on some other issues. So it is a judiciary and process issue. So anybody will feel that this is coming up so that they can which ones do your cook. But let's also not forget that this is a country where you have an election issue and it goes on and that is why we have even been talking about creating special cause to deal with election matters and by Satudia Abulamid would agree with me that that is a conversation within the nation's judicial system that we need to dispense justice as quickly as possible so that people don't die waiting. So people that are talking about the issue of delay, what is it now? I think they should direct their conversations to the court because there are other non-criminal justice issues that have been in court for many years and oftentimes it is about how well you are able to prove or not against the person. Perhaps it is a coincidence and that is why the dispensation of justice against Doi Okubo is common at the time where the court has been able to have on their table proof of such money's dispense. According to Doi Okubo he said that money was used to pay those that were staffers of the former president of the country in his capacity as a senior special assistant on media publicity and also the money was used as well for the image London of the president and the question was asked why did you receive 240 million nara in cash if we look at all of what preceded it that is way too much and that's why 26 count charge actually got preferred against it. So in summary let people stop arguing or making a hero of Doi Okubo. Doi Okubo is a man that has been especially active in Nigeria's Fort Republic and as a medical doctor who spent a minimum of seven plus strike nine years in the country's university or so or whatever is studied to obtain his MBBS should understand better that you don't even undo such money and if at all the person giving you the money doesn't understand you stand a good position for somebody who works closely with the president and who is working closely with a president to be if he's voted to office should have understood better so let's wake up and stop calling a spade by another name please. Because many would also say if the tables were turned would you still be waxing this lyrical as because this is not one of yours but if you were one of yours. No, no, no, no, please, let's get this way. I want to go, I want to, I want to, I'm going to let you answer. Again I take you back to the statement that was released by the Labour Party saying that this was a witch hunt, it was a distraction and they called it all kinds of names. If the tables were turned for the ADC would this also not have been the same position? I mean the ADC on its own has problems. Okay, okay, okay, let's, let's spend this picture. The position I hold is somewhat similar to the position that do your cook by health for the former president of the country and I know better that if at all any money to the tune of even a hundred million must be disbursed for the running of the office that I happen to superintend over it has to go through the banks and it to be impossible for me to even owe such cash and for a man like to be able to cook with the presidential candidate of the ADC understands that it cannot even give me such an amount of money in cash because we have to account for a problem. So if the tables cannot turn and the tables cannot put me in that position, please you can hide, you can write it down. I'm not saying this because I am Jesus Christ or I'm a saint but there are certain things that we must understand and try as much as possible to avoid. Don't you cook by has worked with the number one person in the country. He has worked closely with those that hold first positions in the country is closer to information, closer to policies, closer to strategies, closer to certain things he should not do. So it should not have collected it. Even if the money were meant to for maybe as gifts, the money should go through certain channels and he knows better how to get that money to himself. So I need to also say here that apart from all of this, we're talking about Nigeria as a country and building institutions that we can leave for others that are profitable, that will enhance robust democratic processes that we hope to let Nigeria sustain or live by. So the tables won't turn and with every sense of humility, I won't be found collecting 240 million dollars. Please let that be getting very clearly now. Thank you. Great. Back to you Abdul Amid. This is not in any way trying to say that what happened or what don't you cook by did was good or you know trying to make it look like he's a saint. But then the questions, the same question can be asked of the PDP. Now I do know as somebody who works closely with civil society that the likes of the PDP, the APC and I mean keep naming them, most of Nigeria's political parties, especially the Big Wigs, have not necessarily adhered to the Electoral Act or even the recently amended one in terms of party financing and monies generally. Most of these political parties right from 2016 till now are yet to publish their party finances or make it even open even with the aid of the FOI. So I bring it back again. The PDP and the APC did have a lot to say about Ukupwe's case. But like I asked, if the tables were turned, the same sorts of sentiments we would see because this is Nigeria, there's never a smoke like we say without fire. You know what I mean. So really should the APC, the PDP or even the ADC who has also had money scandals in the recent past, even in the midst of their primaries, should these political parties be throwing the stone or throwing stones at a glasshouse in this case? You see you are right in the way because this is Nigeria and most times we are not sincere with ourselves. When the issue is against you, you see the writing. When it's in your favor, you see the other side and that's what people have been doing and that's what has been happening. So I won't say you are wrong in your assumption that if you have been other candidate or other party say the people will be saying the same thing. But for me as a person, I will not say the same thing. I will say the way it is. Let's call a spade a spade unless I say the truth. You see the Labour Party found themselves in this circumstance because probably they didn't do that very well. Because you don't give a room for people to make allegation against you or to even convict you. Just like let me borrow the words of the governor of Cardinal States. He said you say we are criticizing you or this and that. Don't give us a room to criticize you. If the Labour Party, who claim to be a claim party has done that diligence, they will have been aware that Chief Okope is facing an allegation of 12 million other cases in court at that time when he was made a member and when he was appointed. So it shows that look the Labour Party itself is not diligent enough. I will not be able to do a total job in terms of fighting corruption when it comes to power. Because that means you are not just upon people without even finding out about the background. The data has been found. It has been clear that Chief Okope is facing a trial which may come one way or the other. It may be in favor against him. So call me as it is now because of the process of the court to say it's a win chance or attempt to distract the Labour Party. I will not agree with that. If it happens to PDP, I won't say it's a win chance because I know as a lawyer that the process of court is not something you start one day and you finish one day. This started seven years ago and today we are getting the result. So it may be a coincidence. So I don't want to see that distraction as an attempt to distract the Labour Party. And I will not say that it happened to PDP or any other party that I like or that I'm supporting. Okay. Let's talk about the level of damage that's been done if there be any. Adeni, do you think that this in any way affects the Labour Party? And even though the Labour Party candidate has said he's resolved to make sure that he will continue in his quest. But just as you all have been speaking tonight, it seems more like you're saying, well, the party that seemed a bit more exalted than us seems to be now on the same level with Thos, but do you think so? That there's been any damage done? Well, when the Bible got written, they did not remove the name of Judas Iscariot as the disciple of Jesus and the fact that it was the chief accountant and treasure of Jesus and it was the disciple of Jesus, regardless of the fact that he betrayed Jesus Christ. And when we write the history books of Labour Party, especially under the candidacy of Peter Obey, we'll always describe Don Jo Kukwe as his spokesman and his former spokesman, whatever it is that happens. And that is why people like us are looking at things from the very critical point of view, because we believe that you cannot preach saintshood, yet you are not in a monastery, yet you are not actually in a temple. It is key for us to not move away our eyes or shift our focus from the reality of the fact that it is always difficult to dissociate a recalcitrant child from the parents. Even if the parents are saintly, they'll always say there must be somebody whose blood the child carries or the fact that certain due diligence have not been done down the grown-up years of those children. For the Labour Party, it is a conversation that is ongoing as we speak, and it is also a subtraction from the position of somebody who perhaps believes it is the Messiah for the country. I think it is key for us to understand that these have not subtracted from the fact that Peter Obey is still, according to a recent poll, leading four major presidential candidates, Peter Obey, that you have a Bola Sinobu, after that you have an Antico Abubakar, then you have of course a Rabi Musa Kokonso, that is how the polls show their positions at the moment. But we must say that the more you have things like this happen, the more people begin to make a decision. Do not forget also that there is a conversation within the media space regarding how Peter Obey actually showed people who asked him a question, and he transferred the question, the way Bola Sinobu transferred the question to those that answered questions from him at the Chatham House. You see, this is a reflection of the fact that no presidential candidate has the capacity to do everything perfectly by himself, and in this case, himself alone. So for the Labour Party group, I think it has removed the supposed immaculateness that it tends to project to people, and the fact that it wants everybody to see them as perfect, but the reality is, no party is perfect, the APC is not perfect, the PDP is not perfect, the NNPP is not perfect, and the Labour Party is not perfect, due to every presidential candidate in these parties. But it is how you are able to sell the little and the good that is left of you, because if we will talk about Peter Obey for instance, I am somebody who is well-traveled in the country. And I can tell you that even the capital of Anambra joined the era of Peter Obey, doesn't look anywhere like what we should actually clap for, Onitsha, both of the highest number of billionaires in this country under Peter Obey. There was a time, even after Peter Obey left of it, you cannot even go through Onitsha, you cannot go through Upoko, these are places that I have travelled in and out on the road, and even at the Anambra election, I was also there. So I am trying to say that we have to try as much as possible to do the little we are able to, but would this subtract from the traction that Peter Obey is getting, when we have to continue to look at what happens, especially because the south-east has the least number of registered voters. I think the last time I gave us the figures, it has about maybe less than 10 million or 12 million or thereabouts. And in terms of those that also have collected the PVC, the south-east where Peter Obey comes from has the least number, of course, it is about 80% collection compared to the north-east where Atikua-Bubaga comes from, where we've had over 90% collection of the PVC. And bear in mind also that the south-west has the second highest PVC collected. So we must understand the dynamics of the thing that is going. So in terms of those that are going to participate in the coming elections, you also have to consider the figures that are official, and the fact that the figures that have been turned out as a result of the mobile phone voting that they've done. So the days ahead are very interesting. It is for every candidate to continue to push and of course ultimately the electorate will decide come next year, that is February 25th of 2023. Thank you because you literally pivoted me to my next question and that's my final question to you, Tungi. The ANAP Foundation sponsored a poll that was independently done, which is called the NLI polls, and you know what the result says. Despite the travails of the Labour Party and UB-led presidential campaign, they seem to still be in the lead. And not even the PDP or the APC are in the lead. And we also have seen where the NNPP is on that particular poll. You know, a lot of responses have come. I mean, the PDP gave a very interesting response, you know, calling that particular poll names once that I would want to repeat on this show. But then even the Labour Party that seemed to be on top of the polls did say something like, well, as much as we are leading in this polls, we're going to do our work and continue to see how many more people we can get. But I want to ask you in closing, again, the question I asked to Adene Yukunu, do you see this saga affecting the Labour Party's movement as we get ready for the elections and in closing? How does this reflect on your party? The point is that, let me see, the poll is what it is. It is not the reality. It is what you call it, the public opinion. So, unfortunately, most of the people that are part of that poll may not even be part of the election at the long run. As far as I'm concerned, that will not have any effect on my party. It doesn't have any effect at all. What the election will determine who and who will win, not that opinion poll. If you look at that opinion poll, saying OB got the ISP in the North Central, to me, it's unrealistic. How will it be possible? I don't know how that will be possible. I don't even know the kind of people they interact with, maybe probably the allies who are also, who are those who are in the Labour Party, I don't know. As far as I'm concerned, my party is not concerned about that poll. We are doing our work and we are working hard to ensure that look. You see, if you look at all the candidates here, I'm not trying to convey the reality. Alagi Atukua-Baka is ahead of all of them. In terms of experience, in terms of everything, he's ahead of them. So, there's no comparison regarding whether OB is leading the poll or not leading the poll. That is not a threat to PDP as far as I'm concerned. They don't even see it. They see it as what it is. It's a poll, a public opinion, and that's what it is. So, as far as I'm concerned, we, PDP is not deterred by that. And we are doing our work to ensure that we deliver. And I tell you, by 2023, Alagi Atukua-Baka will be declared the winner. February 2020-25, it will be declared the winner of the President of this country. Well, I think the Nigerian voters will be the determinants as to who emerges as the President come 2023. But I want to say thank you. Adeni Ikunu is a political analyst and a researcher. And of course, Tungi Abdulameed is a member of the People's Democratic Party and a legal practitioner. Gentlemen, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. It's a privilege to be on your platform. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a quick break. When we return, we'll be moving to the ADC to talk about what's been happening and what the court has said about the Mosul-led Exco and how this will reflect on the party. Stay with us.