 This is the generative comments call on Wednesday, September 15, 2021. And we're talking about Stacy's triple word score project idea to experiment on trove. Yeah, cool. There you go. Now you're on the record. Okay. Hey, you know I hate doing this. Um, So it's to quote Trump. Yeah, we have the best people. Yeah, we do. We do and the best words project though, and the best words. Yeah, but yes. So yesterday I was really impressing trove, and I spent some time looking around it and that's where part of this comes from. The other part comes from recognizing that the way people invest is really changing. And I think that's a really good opportunity for us. So the idea is, and this is where the triple word score comes in. If OGM created a consultancy, but it's a rating system. So there's something like, I don't know if you buy like certified humane eggs. I know what you mean. Yes, I occasionally do and I occasionally don't. Okay, so the idea would be like to set up almost like an Angie's list. But the rating system is based on system. So the idea is, and this is where the triple word score comes in. If OGM created a consultancy, but it's a rating system. So there's something like, I don't know if you buy like certified humane eggs. But the rating system is based on systems thinking. So it's based on thrive ability and the education part of that would be teaching new entrepreneurs how to think through that lens. Okay. But the way we go about setting up the project is to look at the certified humane organization. And so we're going to overlay over that because what that will do, it will connect us to that whole farming kind of community, which is going to overlap with a lot of what class is working on the same kind of people and I look they have a schedule for fees and things like that that I think is pretty you know it looks like there's a lot of thought that went into that. I'm getting nervous. Okay, so the way we start with people in our own group that are part that are willing to be part of this creative commons is as a show. Each project gets, you know, highlighted. So they're getting a video of their project we're getting to know the players. We're getting to know, you know, what their ideas are. The second show which is made up of the board members and those are experts in the different disciplines. They get to discuss how it could be made better. They get to offer their feedback. If you're a member of the commons, and you want that rating system and you want that process of being interviewed and having everything, you know, unpacked or whatever, whatever wording you want to use. That's for free, because you're part of the community. If things really go the way I think they're going to go in the real world as far as investing. It's going to be useful for businesses to have a rating, because like I want to know that what I'm investing in is, you know, helping the world, not just the business, but that it is, you know, going to, you know, sustainable in terms of the larger ecosystem. So I don't know what I left out, but basically there's two components. There's a profit making the profit making part will be to people outside the commons that are will be targeting those businesses that are going on the apps that are trying to get individuals to invest on smaller scale. Like there are apps where you can invest for like 100 bucks. And, you know, you get a little bio, but how great would it be to those companies if they got a high rating. And it would be a way to train entrepreneurs to think in terms of the larger ecosystem because that's going to bring more investors to them. So, are you familiar with guide star. No, I never heard. You may want to Google them and just go go look at them. They are a rating system for charities I think. And they've been around a long time they're used by other companies, and they may have new competitors and stuff like that this is the one I remember, and I haven't looked into this area for a while, but there is an infrastructure already for rating donations right in that way. And there are some attempts to do ratings of different kinds for companies, none of which is really stuck but I think I see where you're going. And I like the idea of a thrive ability rating of some sort. Before I forget, I just kind of started making friends. What's his last name with a guy named Richie. He's a member of Google who founded cheerful giving, which got bought by good world. And they become their niche right now is a basically corporate giving to try to figure out how to make that easier for corporations and etc etc there's kind of an interesting stuff in the mix. And then also, you're, I think, are you the person who's a fan of Michelle holiday. Okay, so so I'm in Michelle's group and stuff like that. And she's all about drivability right. So she would be somebody invited to sit on a board. Right. Well, in fact, if you sort of thought about it she's got a community of eager people who are in there. And how might we equip arm motivate her small army to participate in crowdsourcing or even or crowdfunding or both the kinds of things that you want to see go through the system. So I think I think you know engaging Michelle and asking her and then seeing what's up there and having her participate in the design would be super super interesting. So here's where the triple words for because remember it's not just about like the idea that I'm putting out like that's just the framework to start us moving. Awesome. But if we approach it by taking a look at how you mean certified, put their stuff together that already drives communities together with common interests. Even though I mean some of them might not you know there might be you know we might have a lot of vegans in the crowd that don't want any animals, but it's still going to. It's going to it's going I think it's going to cause a lot of overlap. And then it's going to create more opportunities for people to participate in filming the shows. And what I'm always looking for is the social fabric part of it. If we approached it this way. It brings in business people that are usually not in this. You know there's a really there's a there's a great dichotomy between people that find their way into the business sector, as opposed to different sectors. It's not that their hearts aren't good, but they really value money and there's nothing wrong with that and I'm not making judgments on that you know I was looking at an interview with Candace Owens and Russell Brandt really struck me. She really thinks that her way of thinking is for the benefit of the world. And there are a lot of people that really do believe that focusing on their individual accomplishments is the best way. So we need to reach that mindset, not the ones that already think like us. So, again, the whole idea of a rating system for businesses. They kind of have to be part of it whether they like if we succeed. They have to be part of it whether they want it or not. But all the while we're creating connections between people of all different kinds, just because of that those topics by focusing on the farming, the agricultural part of it. It's not sounding like a charity, because when you hear like, you know charity, you feel like you're being asked for something. Great, great. Yeah, it's interesting. We feel like you're being asked for something unless you're among the people the charity is serving, in which case you feel like maybe it's paternalistic like somebody is here to help and you lose some autonomy or some dignity or something else, depending on the charity. Can you unpack the triple word score for a second like which which layers of value you see. So, you want to do weaving the world. We would be weaving the world because we would be highlighting the different. So we'd start off highlighting the people involved with this certified humane. I'm sure we would find connections between all the, you know, all the context that we each know if we each go out like you know you've mentioned this before we're like one degree away from somebody. So, oh, the triple words for you. Okay. The triple word score is one we're developing a consultancy rating system organization as the two arms the educational arm, and then the rating arm which could be profit, you know, for profit. And we could choose to test out a new system by saying that 90% of the profits go to the Commons to feed the Commons with the jobs and that's where we get the workers from. The second part is that I think it's going to overlap with a lot of class with a lot of what class and his groups are doing. Yeah, because he's now connected to a lot of people. The third thing is it's weaving the world, you already mentioned Michelle and her group. There are lots of other groups, it'll give all those groups a place to plug in. So we're weaving the world. We're helping with the farm to table. And we're also helping to teach a new kind of mindset because we already said it's very hard to think outside of paradigm that you're already in. But now if we're changing the rules of success. It changes the way we think. Yeah. And it's very interesting because I was in the Congress was this yesterday's build a GM call I don't remember, but but basically the idea that there's a whole bunch of people out there with very different mindsets about how to fix the world. Now this was happening with Hank and life on Monday. You know there's a bunch of people that are like entrepreneurship is the answer all we have to do is turn everybody into entrepreneurs and that will solve all the world's problems. And I'm incredibly skeptical about that. Libertarianism isn't that far removed from there like those there's a big overlap between the entrepreneurship crowd and the libertarian crowd, but you know they've got sort of the answers to the world, but then I'm forgetting what the other what the other solutions were, but but like the other one was, well we've already destroyed the earth we have to get off the earth so all of the wealthy male billionaires who are trying to like do space travel so we can populate Mars. Right. And my tongue and cheek entrance that is, you know I've seen enough good sci fi to know that if you don't solve for trust first, you don't want to be on the first 1000 spaceships off this planet. But the entrepreneurship so and the libertarian perspective is terrible for comments, like terrible for comments libertarianism. I have not found the flavor of libertarianism that's good at public goods, and that is healthy for it because basically they think that no resources should be spent on anything other than protecting private ownership, roughly. And so, and so entering a conversation with other people who are aiming for similar kinds of things. We might actually be able to explore those boundaries and figure out how these things work together and asked to solve the problems or something else I don't know but I like that part of it a lot. Well, and the thing is it allows for all those mindsets, which I think is what you're saying, but you know because because the entrepreneurs want their, their project to be rated. Right. And then the people doing the rating a part of they're not entrepreneurs they're part of the Commons that are doing it. But a separate conversation I've been thinking a lot about the whole libertarian thing. That's a different conversation, but I do think. I wish we had a show where we could talk strategy about, you know, political things and I wish I knew who were the people that were shaping those conversations because that's where I wanted to be. So, so there's no reason weaving the world can't go into that territory and would happily do so like very happily do so. It mostly depends on who we choose to go talk to next. Right. So if we talk to somebody who is deep into that piece of what's going on then. And that's what we start talking about and that's where we go and then we could we could go from there to other people who care about those things we could go from there to experiments. You know that that those conversations suggest and see what we can set up be really cool. There's a lot of nice stuff there. Keeping the scrabble analogy. You started. Yeah, I think that this approach leaves so many places for people to plug in. Yeah, to put their, to put their words down. That's, you know, that was behind the idea of the game, but with Trove I don't need the game anymore. We could just get started and do something because there's a place to post the project. Now, if you're going to propose a consultancy which is a profit making entity that is selling services and some insights, then somebody needs to run it etc etc etc. Are you hoping to float the idea to see if someone shows up who wants to run it. Do you want to run it. Like what's our consultancy take. Okay, the only thing I want to do is come with the idea and serve on the board. Right. That that's all I don't know anything about it. Do I know, I'll tell you what I do know, I do know people that I would go to that would be like my fantasy dream team. And they're all OGM people. And I think that I think that there would be something within this project for each one of the people in my mind. You know, like everybody could find something that motivates them internally, which is always my goal. Good. And, and it's, it's relatively easy to float this idea I mean it's going to mean you have to figure out how to use trove to manifest these ideas. And then, and then I'm floating it to you Jerry. Oh, I want to know if you think it's worth it. Put your own spin it let's do this as a group. That's what that's what I'm saying like I would love a call where we sit and do this together. Okay, that sounds that sounds good and and we need to flesh out the idea from different directions we you know people say it needs it needs a project plan which I will agree with. And the project plan includes like who's on the team, you know who are you serving. When do you meet is this is this is this a thing that has regular you know regular calls or conversations or whatever as well. And that's what I'm suggesting we record. Because, you know, even for me to go on trove. I'm learning it would be nice to have a partner to do it together to film it so other people could say I mean that's the whole. So, so one thing you could easily do is, you could ask another GM or who's not on Trove yet who hasn't created a profile you've already created your profile right. Okay, but I'm thinking if I do this I might take my picture off and just make it so that it's clear it's, it's like global mind. And I use global minds. I mean, you'll like this because I know you're, I like global mind because you take it two ways, you know how you mind the children. So it's not just my mind, but it's global taking care. Yeah, good that's how that's one of the double entendres I like about open global mind. It's mind minding the globe. And minding stewardship. All those things are great words. And I've heard it a few times that two words are better. I keep hearing it when Jack was telling his story. He mentioned that they made him take out the third word. I know Trump always use two words. I know that Bentley mentioned something in terms of creating logos that to would be better. So that's been in my head so that's why global mind. Cool. So where was I heading. Sorry, that's okay. So I'm trying to think we can easily set up a call in by people in the to sort of talk about this thing and shape it. There's a couple pieces of this that are like really large projects, like like a rating system to be credible viable anything like that is a really big project all by all by Sloanson. So for example, Edelman has a trust barometer Edelman PR. Right, so there's a public relations agency and I happen to know the daughter of the founder and stuff like that because I used to be in New York. Anyway, Edelman every year every January publishes the Edelman trust barometer for the year and they do a big survey of, you know, is business trusted is government trusted and they sort of subdivide and do a bunch of analysis. The whole thing is a little bit ironic and strange because Edelman and other PR agencies have been guilty of spin and representing bad clients and all of that which are all acts of mistrust. So, so I think it's a very interesting sort of brand positioning thing that they're doing a trust barometer set that aside. But it's a, it's a ton of work to produce this thing, but they, but they, they reveal it at Davos every year at the World Economic Forum which hasn't happened now for two years. And that has helped make it a really big thing so they get a they get a lot of attention. And when you get attention corporate executives start to talk about it gosh we fell on the trust barometer. That's important, you know, which are the trusted brands. And this is different from which are the best known brands which is somebody else's survey from some other corner of the business world right. And so there's a few things like that. And I think that the world of evaluating sustainability thrive ability reliability as a charitable subject as guide star does. There's already a bunch of work in these worlds and I don't know what that map looks like I don't know who's already doing what. Right. Yeah, go ahead. So keep in mind that part of this is about the journey. So it's about creating interesting calls that people would want to even come to talk about. So we could not so much focus on the end product. The little steps to get there I think create interesting calls that people seem to be seem to want to be a part of. Right. I want to keep that focus to that we can go slow. Exactly. That's the fun part, where we get to really, you know, I think about Facebook didn't that start off like those were like friends like trying to do something. Facebook was Zuckerberg and a couple of the buddies trying to find hot chicks on the on the Harvard campus it was basically we're going to rate the hot babes on on Harvard campus that's what it started as it was kind of crappy. That's my point. That's my point how something could become so it was really just for their own gratification and if we could approach it that way. It might not be a bad idea, but the second level of Facebook I think and my only have an amateur outsiders view of this the second level was it turned into this ironic Harvard insiders social network, where nobody was using their real name everybody's using funny fake names, etc, etc. And then it was just a Harvard thing and nobody outside of Harvard.edu was allowed on to Facebook which made it exclusive, which made everybody else want to be on it. And then it was Ivy League universities only then it was universities only then it was opened up to the public and your mom showed up and it was like ah this stop being cool. But they sort of they worked that progression very intentionally and really well, because it created FOMO, you know from other people who then just wanted to pile in, and they made it easy fear of missing out. Yes, that's a good one. Yeah. They basically generated a bunch of FOMO. And they killed off Friendster they just knew trendster they also made it really easy to move your friends to account over to Facebook. I don't remember what it was but they said do this and this and we'll suck all your friends out of Friendster and drop them into Facebook. And they were quite cutthroat about everything. We wouldn't be cutthroat. No, we're not we're not cutthroat kind of kind of folks here. Good so so it's easy to set up a weaving the world call about this and to move the ideas around and shape them. We, you need to figure out how to describe this to put it into Trove for example and also maybe to build it if you want to keep going with this if it starts catching on to build the baby website figure out you know who else wants to be on the team. And then it then it's kind of sort of up to you to decide, you could spawn a parallel show to weaving the world. It's funny attack weaving the word in the chat by mistake. You can create your own open mind show and be the host of it and invite in whoever you want and do those explorations and figure out like which way you want to go and figure out what are the moving parts and all that. That's relatively simple to do and that's not a company that's not the consultancy. That's just an online show where you host conversations and write people record them put you know post them and do a little bit more than we're doing here on the GM calls right the GM calls. We're doing 80% of what constitutes the show but we don't have it listed on iTunes podcast we don't produce a podcast even though for every call I get the video file and the audio file. I get the text file and for the Thursday calls I get a transcript of the conversation. We're only really using the video files here, but the audio file shows up for free, but then you have to edit that and if it's going to smell like a podcast that means the recorded intro and outro, and it needs a little bit of back end work which is not that hard to do. But here's the thing. Again, I don't want this to be mine. I, I really love just, you know, being part of the panel and just giving bits of that's what I like to do I'm not looking for anything more than that. I know. And if you want open mind as the thing you envision it to have any life past a call. Then you probably have to inhabit it for a while and be the motive energy for it like the way I'm the motive energy for open global mind, and looking to be the motive energy for weaving the world because I think that's the vehicle that I want to point people toward. I'm not a human who's there who says I'm going to be the host I'm going to drive this thing that floats and unless you're really lucky and somebody comes by and says, Oh, can I just adopt the shell you've described, and be the person who runs it which doesn't happen very often. But like that, that's rare. So let me be really frank. I don't have a problem doing that, and I would love to do that for a while. However, unless I have at least two people that have some street cred. There is not going to be any FOMO generated. So, so what you just said is perfect because what it means is one of the first things to do is to find out who those couple very, very close in allies are who have, who have extreme affinity with the vision you're talking about, and want to help you do it, and have different skills from yours. I can think of, you know, because I, you know, I've been thinking about this for a long time. So there are, there are people in this, you know, in the Facebook world that have been very mentor like to me that I think if there was something they would definitely step in and supply their bit of expertise without taking you know they have their own things that they're working on, but they would definitely pitch in. I feel like the one thing that I could say is that the people around me have very high levels of integrity. And that's going to help with building trust. That's where you know I did you see the chart that can put up about trust. Somebody wrote that it was Steven Cubby's. So the, so the thing is, this kind of a situation is one that would allow for the people that don't have trust on the left hand side, the integrity but they're really good at something, but it doesn't allow them to be in positions of making where they can destroy the trust from the left hand side. Does that make sense. I think so. I've given a couple of speeches where there are a bunch of different trust models. And one of the interesting ways of breaking them apart is the difference between cognitive trust and affective trust. I think it's called cognitive. The cognitive trust is, is this person capable of doing the thing they're going to say, and will they likely carry it out, like are they are they reliable to do the thing they said they're going to do. And then affective trust is, do I like them. And do I think they have my best interest set heart. So active affective cognitive. It's really easy to look at Donald Trump and say, this guy's a moron in an asshole. But I think he's actually going to carry out the things he's threatening to do. And I want that done, and that go vote for him. And that's a very reasonable approach to voting for Trump. Yeah, but but that's where I'm different. I would I choose to find the people that are written that I know can do the job, and they have the trust. I know. And most of us, most of us would like the whole package. And I think a lot of people faced by Hillary versus Trump were like, Well, this is the lesser of two evils. And my goal is to destroy the system. And the dude who's going to destroy the system is probably Donald J. And so they vote, they vote for him with the hope that with the system in ruins some other new system will arrive that's better for them because because staying inside the same system is not working for them at all, for whatever For religious reasons for financial reasons for whatever you're in the middle of the country, the industries that sustained your region have just disappeared farming is under siege water the water table is disappearing everything is like for crap. You know, no kid, no kids are coming back from college back to town so the town is dying. You're going to vote to break the system. Right. You want something else to happen. But on a more local level, like people too many of us are willing to make those same sacrifices. We deal with people that we know are not really worthy of trust, but you know it's business. I hear people say that I talked to people all the time, especially people in the entertainment industry, because I have a lot of friends that are either teachers or comedians. And I was thinking my very first. When I was in college I took a theater class, and I remember the first day and this is many years ago so it really stuck with me. And he said, if you're offered a commercial, no matter what the products for, even if you don't believe in it, you take it because you don't take it, someone else will. Well, yeah, just throw your integrity away. So, again, going back to the, you know, the initial project is really to kind of teach having a different mindset. So it's not so much about what might be created or might not be created. It's just the process of getting there. And it's being used to create a social environment because you're going to come to calls that you might think are enjoyable. So even if we were to have a call on this, I want people to come they feel like giving their opinion. I don't have to commit to do anything further. They're just coming to have a conversation. And that conversation that call, yes that I would take, I would be willing to facilitate and do. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. That sounds great. Are you interested. Good. So I mean, why don't we set up, why don't we set up a call to do it. And the question is, do we set up a call separately called open mind or do we weave this into the first calls of weaving the world. And I think I think my first couple calls probably need to be with people who are recognized. Weaving the world is going to be visiting experts and weaving what they've written and books into the world kind of, which is the starting conceit, we probably start there. But the idea for weaving the world is then to talk to lots of different people who have different good ideas about how to do this. So, so we can weave you into that process but that call probably doesn't happen for a few weeks. Yeah, I think I think I would like a call, which is more like, you know, like you said once group of people getting together. Let's put on a show. Nicky Rooney and Judy Garland. Yeah, like, you know, I would want Vincent to be there because we could use trove in it. So that's helping you know, it's about taking all the people that that might find some interest in the project and bringing them together. So, so the simplest thing to do is to just declare a pop up call a one time pop up call that you're sort of the special guest on with this idea. And then we make sure that a few people that you think ought to be there and you invite in whoever you think ought to be there, we try to find a time that works for most of us. And then just just hold that call. See who shows up see what happens post that call on YouTube, and then and then see where we are. Okay, the only thing I would I really would rather feel like a facilitator, more than the owner of this idea. I'm not comfortable with that I would really like this to be more like, we are going to do a project, which project do we want to start together. And if, if this is one of the projects that people say yeah let's do that that works, then we do it. So I think I'm, I think I'm trying to say that if this is going to smell like a project and look like a project and walk like a project it means a project champion. Okay, but I want something in a smaller bite size piece that so like, for example, maybe, maybe I'll say okay, I want to be sure I'll take lead of the show that's going to be about how you mean certified got started. Right. And I'll say does anybody want to help on that show and then we could go through what's going to be needed. We're going to need video people editing people. Does anybody know anybody that's involved with that organization, and it could be planning the first show. I just want to do one little step at a time. Okay. And part of part of your mission is to find other like minor people who want to be the different moving parts of what you're describing. Right. Right. That's it. And that's who you want to invite into the first call. Yes, that I can do. Yeah, I mean, and so you've been on a bunch of class and food system calls. And we've been trying like, like we've been trying really hard to figure out how to bring people around Klaus, who know how to execute and all that kind of stuff, and and showed up and Pentecost, who's phenomenal, and really loves operations and has a little period right now between different, you know, jobs, where she's like, Hey, I could I could sort of invest some of my energy into this thing. And Klaus, I think comes out of a corporate environment where he's used to having people who report to him who know how to execute all these different kinds of things. But there was a gap there, like we and we were having trouble filling that gap. And also we were having trouble, I think, narrowing down what it is exactly that the CFS project actually brings to the world what's what's its focus. And that's and that's with like a senior person who's who's willing to be the head of it, and trying to figure out all the moving parts and that one's still bumpy right now. It's like it's okay it's moving along but it's not a thing with its own energy at this point yet. So, so you've been witness to that process of trying to stand up the CFS project as an ongoing thing with with, you know, with some lift from its wings. That's exactly why I'm not coming from this as like a mission oriented thing. Yeah, I want to create something that's enjoyable to show up to. So like I come here because I enjoy coming. I want to create a space where people come. Yes, so. So, what you're describing fits beautifully into the vision I imagine for weaving the world and feeding the big fungus right, because my goal is to have multiple shows, whatever that means multiple conversation sequences that are running in parallel, interweaving with each other and nurturing this this generative comments that's the framing for the call we're in right now. So, so if you wanted to stand up one of those and be one of the parallel shows, that is just awesome and I would put you on the website and say, over here, and then like over here is Stacy who hosts open my global mind. And this is what this is their theme and this is how they're going and they're hosting a great bunch of conversations. But in order for me to be able to say that or do that. I want to be a there there and you're saying, I want to be an advisor I don't really want to be the host or the center of the they're there which means either you find a couple people who would love to be co hosts or just kind of own it build it do it, which is awesome. And I want to help you do that. Or I don't know what the what plan B is. Let me ask you a different question. Okay, with your with your weaving the world. Where's what's the first. Who's the first people you want to interview. I don't know I've got I haven't, I haven't made the list and I've got a bunch of interesting ideas in my head about where to go. I'd rather not have white men at the front of the list I'd rather go to people who are pretty different and serve people who have different ideas. So after a futurism eco feminism, like I'm looking in those areas. Okay, I would then have to go say hi and introduce myself to some of those people. I have some on to it but not a whole bunch but, but I kind of want to like not do the, we're going to talk to Daniel, Max Schmackenberger, and Newton, no, Ferrari and whatever like, I don't want to do the usual suspects on this, even though a lot of them have really interesting ideas like the problem with Schmackenberger is that I don't find any of his work that's less than an hour and a half long to listen to. It's like, I kind of a part of what OGM hopes to do is to digest and make more accessible. A lot of these people's thinking, right, so that you could go into my brain or some other artifact I don't care what it is, and go out. I really love these ideas. I really love this fifth idea, only the fifth idea. Let's go deep on that and how do I implement that in my project that that's part of what I OGM wants to try to do is make these things really accessible and useful. So I guess what I'm saying to you is, when you're thinking about where you want to start. Is there a place if we were drawing a Venn diagram where that starting point could be within the food in, you know, within the food sort of soil environment neighborhood. I'm sure and I think that I think that a food nexus soil nexus call would be a fabulous thing to have in the first half dozen calls fabulous. Because then I would so the way the way I would see it. So let's say you're the face of weaving the world, and I'm the face of this other thing, and then there's a third, there's got to be a third. And that that could actually be a revolving thing, depending on who's interested at the time. How do we, how do we create a plan that takes us both one step at a time along the same path. That's what I'm looking to do. And by the way, over time, we don't have to stand up all of these parallel shows. There are a million podcasts out there already, some of which, some of which are very groovy and are just like trying to get attention by themselves and they're like, I'm over here. No, people come, come listen to my podcast in enough volume that I can make a living doing this thing right. What we could do is say, hey, if you're willing to work sort of within this framework of feeding the big fungus, whatever that turns out to mean over time. And separate then we can all point to each other and we become a little flotilla of shows that are moving together next to each other and then I think what I think OGM is kind of responsibility in this and we're not certainly not the only people doing this but I think we're the ones that who really give a damn about this is what is the shared artifact that lies inside the big fungus what is what is the actual manifestation of that fungus. You know, the Wikipedia is a piece of the big fungus. It's already and it already exists and thank you Jimmy Wales and, you know, 10s of thousands of volunteers, but there's this beautiful artifact that is only an encyclopedia. It's just a whole picture of this shared shared memory and everything else. And by the way, every episode of every show we make is not allowed to become a page in Wikipedia, because the Wikipedia has a thing called the notability criterion. Right. Do you know about notability. So the dynamics of Wikipedia are super fascinating. One of them is that you know people just started coming in and putting their, their, their daughter's garage band into Wikipedia. And it was just a garage band that dissolved after four shows and so forth and so they said look this is an encyclopedia. And to be in an encyclopedia something has to be notable noteworthy, which ironically means it should have been referenced in traditional media. Your band unless it has a write up enrolling stone and variety and has issued three albums that are available in stores, which all sounds like old media. Unless it has those things it's not worth building a Wikipedia page for your welcome to go build your bands website webpage on wix or Squarespace and go crazy, but a Wikipedia entry to be on Wikipedia needs to be worth remembering. Right. Another service we can provide. If, if we can almost like unionize those real small players and they become part of global mind and global mind gets the Wikipedia page. I think quite possibly well global mind to get a Wikipedia page would have to become like a big ongoing entity of some sort that's what like, I see startups that don't have Wikipedia pages because they're somehow not famous enough not big enough so it's it's not an easy thing to go started with the Wikipedia page but but there could be an aggregation of things here yes. I see I have a really different perspective because I look at Facebook. I always saw the power of Facebook that I'm here sitting here talking to you. Yeah, should be proof that I was able to utilize Facebook in a special way. I mean, you know you mentioned you were going to have a talk with Jim right I was looking yesterday. I was having instant I was having messages with him in 2017. You know, I mean, it's been a really. So my point is, I always had in the back of my mind. If we could change the culture of that fake world, we could change the world. And we know it works. We saw what happened with the COVID misinformation, how just 12 people were able to change everything. So when people kept saying let's leave Facebook, I kept saying no stay here, because it's small enough that you can get a total picture of it's small enough that you can really find those leverage points and change the culture. You know if you look at every group as like their own country. Great. You can start by changing things that way, sometimes smaller is better when it comes to being able to shift things. I don't know, does that make sense. Yeah. But to all those people that are really like that are on Patreon or really trying to you know they're doing things as a labor of love. Those are the people I want to reach out to. I don't want to reach out to the really notable people that are already I mean we would, they would come like as an expert as a guest. But I want to reach out to the people that are doing things because they're so driven. They really, they are doing it with no compensation. Those are the people I want to reach. Me too. And I also want to figure out. How do we start to compensate the people who are feeding the fungus. Right. I want to, I want to figure out like it's one thing I'm, I'm going to, I'm obsessive about feeding my brain I'm going to do that and publish my brain openly anyway it's going to happen. I love to make a living doing that. But, you know, if Gene Belanger is making a living writing kumu diagrams for other people, and he'd like to participate. It'd be nice if the commons could generate some kind of funding so that he in fact is like merrily helping us improve this thing and able to kind of keep doing that for some substantial piece of his time. And, you know, six other people with other tools from other backgrounds doing the same sort of thing. I'd love to prototype that and figure that out and the reason we were having conversations about fields and all that and like. I own map whispers.com is that I had this fantasy in my head that we would actually collect up a bunch of people like gene and Christina Bowen and me and a bunch of others who love the mapping, specifically the mapping aspect. We would form up as a guild, which would be like a hiring hall, we would then, we would then stand up a website and a consulting service that would sell map whisper hours to anybody who want who needed us. It's not a way that you can go get a graphic facilitator today, but nobody's heard of a map whisper let's invent that category. Right. That was part of what the whole idea of guilds was, and and story threaders is a different guilt with a different set of skills, and a different set of members which I'd also like to be a part of, but that you know those things don't exist yet. Couldn't that department be part of a consultancy that's being built that that's also part of an educational platform and program and all that entirely could. It's all pretty complicated and we need somebody who knows how to run a consultancy, for example, right. Like making a consultancy actually work is not the simplest thing in the world, and then, and making one actually thrive and making the numbers work properly so that, so that everybody's doing well. That's hard, I've seen, you know, and I've been a part of multiple consultancies in different ways. Now, at the same moment, one of the things that's happening is this Dow kind of, you know, these exotic electronic cryptocurrency infrastructures where people are coming together and doing projecty kind of stuff. That's really, really interesting because it could be, it could be that the infrastructure for consultancy is light and external and like a thin membrane or something. I don't know. And I'm busy researching and trying to figure out what would that look like because because there's a difference between, you know, I'm part of the founding story of science. I don't know if you remember science, but it was one of those consultancies in the dot com era. He was the founder of science from before he founded science and he wanted to hire me for the founding of science and I was like, can I just do a little consulting for you which I did. But there's a really big difference between standing up one of those suckers and having a bunch of employees doing consulting engagements and having a sales force closing gigs or whatever, and doing something extremely lightweight and organic and decentralized which is, I think the way you and I would probably like this thing to go. But when I talk about consultancy, I'm talking about first for the people in our, you're already doing it. You're already there helping people like Vincent. You're already doing it. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. So I'm talking about building on doing. Yeah, so I'm agreed because a piece of the piece of the mission of weaving the world is to weave those parts as well. It's not just. So, I think the obvious surface level mission of weaving the world is to go to big thinkers and weave their ideas into a larger context. So, you know, donor economics awesome. How does donor economics fit in with sustainability how does donor economics fit in with feminism. How does it fit in with libertarianism. What are the edges how do these things, you know where they're overlaps that's that's fun and that's interesting. But that's not the stuff that we're talking about right now, which is really useful and interesting as well. Right. So how, how might an independent person make a living in donor economics. It's a platform for for individuals who believe in donor economics and want to bring it to the world. How do they make a living doing that. That's really interesting. Right. And what is the flow of value for individuals and organizations in the donut economics greater sphere. And I know a few donut consultants who are sort of, you know, they want to be doing that theory you is maybe a better example because it's older it's more fleshed out it's it's got a lot of momentum. And I think there's a bunch of consultants who who are out there doing theory you kind of, and I don't know if they have a certification process. I mean, I know that Pine and Gilmore have a whole like experience economy certification process I get their emails. And they'd like they'll have classes where you pay $2,000 and you become a certified experience economy consultant. And then, you know, good luck to you. I know it sounds naive, but I'm going to say it again. I think it's so important at least in this beginning thing to take the money out of it. What like, and that's why I brought up Facebook in its early stages they weren't thinking about money. It's possible to create something I think I actually, it's more fulfilling, thriveable, all those things, if you're not thinking about it first in terms of money. So I totally agree and I think the last 18 months of OGM are exactly that. I mean really, I mean, we haven't really made a dime. And and but but some of us would like to be able to do this a lot more and make a living from it, including including me. So Jordan said something to me a couple days ago that was really nice was like, Jerry, how do we how do we build a vehicle so that you can serve your best and highest purpose which appears to be convening facilitating doing the jujitsu brain thing, and then sort of nurturing coaching, etc, etc. And I'm like, if I could sit at the helm of a little vessel, a tiny vessel. I don't have any desire to run 100 person company and be responsible for their, their incomes and livelihoods. I just want to create, I want to be part of a thriving ecosystem, where everybody has a vehicle in the vessel and we can kind of dock and undock depending on what projects we're working on. Right. What does that look like. Well, so I'm trying, I've been trying now for 18 months to figure out what does that look like what what shape does that vessel take and so. So, OGM is a fiscal sponsor of Jordan's company called Lion's Bird, which means I can go attract grant funding. But I'm having trouble describing what I'm asking funders to find. I'm like, what is what is this thing and you know, Pete asks a question so Jerry is OGM an organization, or a hashtag and a movement. And I'm like, at the end of that call it's like, it's probably better off as a hashtag. It's like, okay, great, so I'm not pitching OGM to people. So I think I'm pitching leaving the world. And how do I make that compelling and interesting. Right. Is there value in terms of funding to create something that encourages entrepreneurs to think in more of a systems thinking way. That's a really interesting piece of all this. I mean, I would love. I would love to have a like toxoplasmosis is the virus that causes mice to lose their fear of cats I think or something like that. Women why they have to stay away from cats bingo but but but what it does in the ecosystem is it causes mice to lose their fear of cats so they come out of hiding in the cats eat them. And the toxoplasmosis virus loves that because it lives through the cat digestive system which is why pregnant women shouldn't have them. Anyway, I would love to find a mind worm that would take a bunch of people who think like pure libertarianism is the only answer and soften them into systems thinking and into finding some other some some bridge and nurturing the comments and figuring out how that all works together. That'd be great. But see to me that fits within these projects, like for example, I know the topic that I would approach libertarians with I already have that in my head and that's why I said that's another great show. Yeah, because I think that I think they're changing the topic. I think there is a tie in between the drug company in between exploring the role of drug companies, the illegal the criminalization of like using mushrooms. There's a whole, you know, I mean, illegal until I think the 70s Nixon schedule five schedule five narcotics basically he illegalized a whole bunch of stuff that was not illegal before that moment. So to me, and I actually have this on another page here somewhere there were like a few topics that I saw it overlay where it was mental health different laws health care drugs poverty. And I really felt that there would be a way to frame it so that the libertarians which I consider the far far right, you know, if you go around in a circle, and the far far left could actually come to a place of agreement. And that's really funny I whenever, you know friends are talking to me about like doing mushrooms or something I always tell them I never did any of those, you know, it always scared me to do anything that would alter my mind. And I said, again, I was very young. I said I remember hearing about art link letters daughter. Oh, I start doing a little digging and I come to find out that she was this was suicide. This had nothing to do with drugs. So, look, do you see my brain. Oh yeah. And it's connected to an article in New York Times called lsc's long strange trip, which I think I think the story was that she was taking all see but it turns out she just fell from a six story window. Well, it was probably suicide. And at the time, that was more shameful for them they wanted to cover up the suicide so they were willing to blame it on drugs. Bingo. But here's the interesting part. Yeah. I was, I was seven years old. So somehow whatever was going on in my environment, which I look at kids today and what they're getting in their environment, what their beliefs are. Yep. This false information shape the next 50 years of my life. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. So here's where a lot of this stuff lives in my brain and and highlighted here Portugal decriminalized all drugs for personal use in 2001, and it's been a success. Right. Yeah, I mean I guess I don't know I don't want to pretend I do know but I think it would be a success. I can tell you from like a message forming point of view that the way the conversations are framed in our country are really really bad. And I don't want to say that it's done on purpose, because I don't think it is. I don't know. I actually think it is it's a, I think part of it is ignorance and part of it is very intentional. Okay, so for either whether you're somebody that believes it's intentional and I definitely am open to that possibility I keep saying, you know, especially when we talk about the media. Yeah, but the messaging is so bad. And I know that if we change the messaging it could work because this is what I was doing in 2016. When I would spend time talking to regular people I would purposely go to people that had different political views and I would throw out ideas well would you be for this would you. And I would get agreement. And at the same time, I was in a different mind space and I really thought you know I can do this. I came across too many bad actors, I don't want to ever do something like that again. But I know it can be done. You know, I've done it. And I've, you know, I purposely throw ideas to people that I know are against something and I say we'll have that this habit. Well, which is, um, so a different way of looking at this, you know how the late show that used to be john steward that is now Trevor Noah, you know how they have correspondence. Yes, yes. And has some of who end up having their own shows or whatever. Some of whom are just great stand the comedians on their own but, but there's a Jonathan Klepper is one of the ones now, and he'll go interview people at a mega rally. And he's, he's just so good on his feet. He's like, so, and he has this like innocent look on his face like so you're saying this is true right. It's like, and he's really kind of poking fun at those people and embarrassing them for their dimwitted. Candy from a baby. Oh my God it's bad but it's but it's hilarious. But anyway, one way of thinking about this is that and this is just a framing is that if you wanted to be a weaving the world correspondent. Then weaving the world is the envelope with the other rapper of the umbrella. You are like like we cooperate on when we create create episodes. You figure out what your trail of reporting or episodes is going to be like I help you know help host frame do whatever. And we figure out who else is attracted to help you do your particular path. Right. I have a particular path. My particular path is whatever, whatever emerges at the time like I, I want an emerging path but I think you have a path I think I think, I think the reason we've been talking about this and the reason you're proposing global mind and some framing around that I think you have a vision and a path that's just like you're happy to let it emerge and explore where it shows up, but you have a concept of what it is and directionally what it is. I feel like it's a template of the way your mind thinks right and I've said that to you before. And so and so I'm interested in like representing this online and and and for muggles coming in, it's got a look and smell like something. So if we borrow the idea of correspondence. So, so one of the notions is that weaving the world is one of many parallel shows. Everybody knows what a show is, which would mean then that you would be the host of a show doing all this stuff we talked about you're like I'm not so interested in doing that. I'm not a correspondent, just the umbrella and everything else I'm taking care of like we're running along doing open, you know, weaving the world. But then you wind up creating a trail of episodes and we can, we can collaborate and connect a whole lot more. So maybe we do that. And again, I just want to say like that. I also want to collect other correspondence, like I in this grand picture, I always see you are like the tie to like all the tech people you're that liaison there, and then back to the middle, and I'm the tie to the muggles, and I'm the liaison there. And that's how we weave, we weave the world by bringing both ends up together. Cool. I like that. I like that a lot. Definitely we need to focus on more women. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we could easily create a thread about women's issues and all that kind of stuff and just pursue that for for a while up front. That'd be great to do because I think if we actually paid attention to things that women care about more women would show up. Um, I don't I don't know. Maybe you might be wrong about that actually. Okay, I would I would love. So I just, I just thought that but I would love to know what would actually work. And then inviting the, I would, I think what would work is having the expert woman come and do the speaking. She brings her own group. Then we get to mingle with that group. Like Michelle, like Michelle holiday. Exactly. Who'd be a great person. So let me scroll back for one thing and then I've got to actually switch to calls. Let me scroll back to the rating system on thrivability. I would love to see such a thing exist. I said earlier that I suspect that there's a bunch of different people poking around nearby trying different kinds of things. I also said that doing one actually an acting one is a gigantic project all of its own and needs resources and needs to be funded. So I think it's, I think it's out of my grasp to try to build such an index, but it's definitely within scope of weaving the world to go find the different missing parts of it, and then provoke such a thing to come into existence somehow and help it. That like that's, that's completely in scope. Right. So, so what about like just scheduling a call. Inviting people like Michelle. And the question, the focus of the call is, what would a rating system look like. Yeah, how do we, how do we evaluate thrivability. How do we create a rating system who's doing it or who's doing it already. And that's the whole call though. Then it could be divided into so like you said who's doing it already. That could be a link to the call. Yeah, somebody's interested in following that route they follow that route. Somebody else might just want to watch the call somebody else might want to just add their opinion to the call. Yep. I'm with you. These are the calls. I mean, I bet you people saw this call. They'd be like, Oh, that would have been interesting to be there. I would like to add my two cents. Okay, so I think that like, Michelle holiday and thrivability call is an interesting thing to pitch as one of the first episodes of weaving the world makes sense to you. Yes, and let's specifically invite people like and Yep, people like Allison. I have one or two women friends that I want to invite specifically invite them. Yeah, sounds great. And Jean Russell will be fun to invite to. I wrote a page in her book on thrivability back almost 20 years. Have no idea who's that she's a dear old friend who's like, What about that woman Susan, which Susan Stucky, you want to come the one that yes. I would like to invite Susan Stucky. She's open to a lot of stuff. Susan Susan Stucky super interesting she used to be at the Institute for research on learning, which was a Xerox park and Solari organization, and she runs really deep on, especially how humans learn online in social spaces. I was so interested seeing her talk I would love the opportunity to be a consultant to IBM for many many years and all that kind of stuff but she's sort of academic but not academic which is really deep on on all the theory. And I just want to say think about these calls, not just for the call itself think about these calls as an opportunity to meet other people. They're like, this is really like a networking socializing kind of activity. Sounds great. I'm going to have to bounce, but thank you. This feels like we've designed an episode. So that's a good start. Thanks. You too. Bye Stacey.