 Good afternoon, everyone. I believe you agree with me. It's very hard to keep the session after lunch, so please bear with us. We will have a set of panel member here, and I would like to call upon them to come forward. Ibu Ate. You please take your seat while I'm introducing you. Oops. And then Ibu Ate. Second on. Please come forward. And then we would like to have Andrew Campbell and then for other speaker is around. Yes. And Professor Maas. Please come forward. Right. So while our panel taking their seat, we already had a very interesting session this morning talking about the same topic, but from the perspective of national and global policies and related issues, including the economy, political economies. In this session, we will be talking about how we implement those policies and expect to have response from the audience. So the way I would like to organize this session would be letting our first three speaker, Ibu Ate, Ibu Ruffles and Andrew Campbell to talk about issues related to communicating with stakeholder, informing the information and how to take them into the discussion on this important activities, managing degraded and conserved pit land. And we would also learn how the control of fire communicates with them. And it's really on the implementation aspect of it. And from Andrew Campbell, we would like to hear how the international initiative is taking part in this process. And more specifically, we'll be talking about how important it is to take care of the livelihood of people because restoring and managing pit land without their participation will be hard, if not impossible. And after the three speakers, we would like to invite you to comment and ask questions and, you know, if you need more clarification. And then I will have the next speaker, Solihin, to talk about the map. And again, the map is a tool to do that on the ground and how the map can be used to help people and policy group to implement the management of pit land. And then we will hear another implementation aspect which was also discussed this morning. Ibu Hesti will be talking about Palludi culture specifically, not only how to do that, but also how important it is from the economic point of view, from the livelihood of people so that we will hear practical aspect of this operation. And then the next one we will hear how in private sector this issue is also discussed in terms of managing water level, controlling the level of water so that the emission can be reduced and controlled, but also taking care of the productivity in the context of high yielding Acacia manjum operation in West Kalimantan by Mr. Kato. And then finally we will hear from the academic, Maas will be talking about emission of greenhouse gases and how this practical aspect of controlling water, Palludi culture will help managing or mitigating the issue of greenhouse gas emission. So I will be helped by our rapporteur, can you stand Ibu Haruni is sitting there and recognize your help and please take care of what we have been talking, we are going to talk here. Without further ado I would like to invite the first speaker sitting next to me Ibu Ati. You have, you are charged to talk about this issue of communication, how stakeholder I engage and I believe this is a new job for you, Ibu Ati is a new director for pitland control, damage control or whatever related to the restoration and while taking your new job perhaps you can also ask participant how to support this idea because they are resourceful people and I believe you have a lot to share with us, please. Distinguished moderator, Prof. Daniel, ladies and gentlemen Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, Assalam sejahtera bagi kita semua. Thank you for giving me opportunity to share the information for what have we done so far of course in the pitland restoration and management in Indonesia. It is honorable for us, me, myself and also our team here to be in charge in this session. Pitland is a fragile ecosystem as we already listen from the first season, a home of huge diversity and also a store of huge amount of carbon and we have a lot in Indonesia over 15 million across from Aceh to Papua that this is our hard work to take care of that. The main problem in the pitland ecosystem in we restore and manage is uncontrolled damage in proper water management system causing serious problem including dry of pitland and land subsidence. This will cause the occurrence of fire for us and land dispression leading to the release of greenhouse gas emission and flood. This problem mostly from unsustainable human activity on pitland with economic development, poverty, culture, behavior and also the limitation of knowledge and so on as a big background. In principle we already listen from the first season that the principle of managing and protecting the pitland ecosystem is make it wet. There are several important considerations to be taken. The first one is about inventory. Determine of the pitland hydrological unit and pit ecosystem function. Establish pitland ecosystem protection and management plan what we call in Indonesian language is RPPEGE and water table measurement also monitoring and covering including water table monitoring, monitoring, development, water management, infrastructure and also restoration and rehabilitation with land cessation and revocation. The government regulation number 71 of 2014 and amended by the government of regulation 57, 2016 gives mandate and authorization to several stakeholders to conduct pitland protection and management among the other governments at all levels state, province and also district level, concession holders, concession holder in the industrial forest and also the cultivation permit community as well. Article 26 of government regulation number 71 2015 clearly mentioned that every person prohibit to land clearing in pit ecosystem function where drainage or canal causing dry of pitland, pitland burning and conducting activity resulting exceeding the pitland ecosystem damage, characterization and criteria. The Ministry of Environment and Forestry has duty to conduct monitoring and inspection of the implementation of pitland protection and management in concession area or non-concession area and constantly dating the implementation of pitland restoration and management amongst stakeholders. The Ministry of Environment and Forestry established several regulations and guidelines as already mentioned by Mr. Kalyansa in the first session. Science, technology and well-knowledge will an essential and playing an important role in ensuring the implementation of those regulations in achieving the target of pitland protection management. The knowledge exchange and information sharing among stakeholders are very valuable in encouraging mass action. In knowledge and information exchange among stakeholders, first we have to identify and characteristic of the stakeholders, their role, their duty and also the needs to involve, actively involve. Secondly we have to identify what kind of packaging and language to communicate with them because we have to communicate with stakeholders or participants language, not in ourselves language to make them understanding more. And the most important also we have to recognize what kind of incentive that we have to provide to identify or to recognize for what they already involved so far. In the first slide, allow me to borrow the slide for Mr. Kalyansa in the first session. We categorized the stakeholders based on the pitland heterological unit and also pitland ecosystem function. The government regulation number 71, 2014 and amended by the government of regulation number 57, 2016 that I already mentioned give them authorities to involve in the pitland management conducted, the pitland protection management based on this categorization. Among other participants or among other stakeholders are as I already mentioned before the government at state level, province level and district level and also the consensual holder and community and also supporting for the university, expert and other resource person. In enhancing the state stakeholders involvement, established technical guidance, development information system, clearing house and capacity building and also incentive, economic incentive or other incentive provided is play an important role. What is the challenge of the enhancing the knowledge and information exchange when the regulation have been established? The key point is availability and accessibility in general meaning not only in the quantity but also the quality and also well understandable. In the current situation we still face the several gaps, firstly the scientific base. There are so many terminology as I learned within two months and also several methodologies that we use technology and implementing the protection and registration of Bitland in Indonesia. Secondly the availability and accessibility in terms of quantity and frequency to access the data, information and also technical training, consultation, facilitation and so on. The third is the accuracy and accountability data in the term of quality provided data training material and also facilitator competence. Another thing that we also have considered is taking packaging in this knowledge, in this knowledge and information exchange with regard we consider about the language barrier and also a knowledge barrier and media barrier. The gap cause various or different understanding, perception and implementation in the field. In our team experience when our team review the consistent holder document for Bitland recovery planning we need several days due to the perception, different perception of the stakeholders and they submit different data that we order as we provided guideline in the regulation, ministerial regulation number 15 and number 16. Slide 4 please. In the Bitland ecosystem registration based on the community and enhancing the community participation we developed facilitator from university, local heroes and also local government for these activities. And also next slide this is for the consistent holders, the parameter, the order, the regulation already provide for example that we have to do the water level management, they have to point at the point, a compliant point and we have to do the rehabilitation but as I already mentioned before in reviewing one document, ecosystem Bitland restoration planning we need several days because of the different data that we have to ask to change or to improve to these stakeholders. Slide 6 and this is the data that we already provide the water level monitoring system that we put it in the database system that is easy for us to monitor in what level and this data from the concession holders and next please this is also, this is the system for the real time data for the water level management, water level monitoring, next. This is also the system that already linked to the PMKG and also the PNPB. And next please this is still the similar the real time data monitoring, next please. This is the Sipongi that later on we can learn from Pak Rafres. I think the conclusion we have done a lot. The achievement is already a lot but still more in progress. The problem is we have to still improve in how to communicate to the stakeholders, how to provide data in ensuring the accessibility, the availability and the accuracy of data that we provide and also of course language is very important. In this matter we have to learn one term, please stand in other partitions to communicate well to understand what they need so far. And last thing we still develop the incentive currently based on the regulation, government regulation regarding to the economic incentive for environmental protection and management. Thank you very much. Thank you Ibuati. Give applause to Ibuati. A lot have been done just to make sure we deliver the message here. This morning we had an interesting conversation where the Ministry of Agriculture were here and talking about water level of control and things related to plantation. Do you consider other government agencies also stakeholders in this stakeholder communication and improving the exchange of information? Yes, in reviewing the document submitted by the concession holder especially from the Hagueu, from the plantation. The plantation is under the Ministry of Agriculture guidance. With this also we invite the representative from the Ministry of Agriculture to be in the team in reviewing this document and also reviewing the reporting for what the concession holders already done so far based on the document of the Pitland restoration plan that they already certified. Okay, so how the communication is carried out? Yes, first we have to discuss, identify every meaning of the regulation in the same perception with them, in the same target that we need. Yes, indeed, sometimes we found several different perception, different interests, especially in the Pitland restoration and conservation in cultivation area but so far we can discuss and the plantation already submit, that already submit the plan for restoration, Pitland restoration is more than 50 company. Thank you. Good, so water is one thing and the enemy of fire is water. You would like to hear more about how fire is controlled and how it is related to the management of water, especially water level in restored Pitland. You would like to hear more from Rafless Panjaitan, who is the director of fire control under the Ministry of Environment and Forestry. Rafless. Thank you, Professor Murdi Arso. First of all, thanks for giving me a chance to present what's the lesson learned and commitment of government for handling the forest fire during the last three years. As forest and land fire are challenges that must be facing by all over the world, especially not only developing country but also developed countries. Based on this, in imperative of the countries that have forest and land fire issues, including Indonesia, to continuously improve forest and land fire control effort by resolving the problems in accordance with their respectfully characteristic. The first I would like to show you the condition the last three years of forest fire in Indonesia. The indicator of the early detection of forest and land fire is measured, is captured by the satellite pro in satellite to be a hotspot. And the definition of hotspots I think we already know that has been captured from the different satellites can be from Modis, NOAA and NPP. The condition of forest fires during 2015-2017 was experienced with several fire damage. It's about 2.6 million hectares land forest area and decreased significantly in 2016 and 2017, you see from the graph. I think this morning already some panelists also mentioned the result of the effort of Indonesia. Next, the emission from the forest fire also we can make sure during the last two years it's also decreased the number especially from green house gas and also next slide please. Indonesia there's mobility officer for dealing with forest and land fire problem. It is directorate forest and land fire management under the directorate general climate change that also we have some unit in the field in the provincial level that also combat or manage the forest fire land. In accordance with the Ministry environment regulation number 32, 2016, forest land fire control, the provincial tax force is a forest and land fire control organization in the province that performs coordinated function as a ad hoc. The provincial tax force is appointed by the governor located in the provincial government office having the function of the coordinating and planning, organizing, operating, monitoring and pollution in any forest land fire control effort. The provincial coordinating tax force and forest land fire control is chaired by governor and consisting of the regional secretariat, regional department planning board and regional disaster management agency, the regional environment agency, the technical service officer for forestry, plantation, agriculture and all technical service are relevant such as Manggalakni, sub district, the provincial government, the surrounding of provincial government. The regional police and the local army and other related agencies in accordance with their level of authority. The human resources for forest fire prevention is mainly, is controlled since 2002, the Ministry environment forestry was established the forest land fire brigade as well known Manggalakni. The forest and land fire brigade is work unit having duties and responsibility for conducting prevention, suppression, post fire handling activities. SLS evacuation and rescue support in the forest and land fire control in the field. Currently Manggalakni has been established in 12 forest and land fire prone provinces with 37 local fire station called the office Manggalakni and consists of 1,980 personnel. Each Manggalakni team consists of 15 personnel with the composition of one person as a head and 14 members. Beside Manggalakni that established by Ministry, environment and forestry, forest and land fire brigade which are also established in the forest management unit, shut as forest management unit KPH and companies in forestry and plantation. The equipment that we have, Manggalakni have some various facilities and equipment needed to support evaluation and control. The approach that we have implementation during the two years, this one is a big changing from suppression activity which changed to paradigms activity where prevention activity that we are implementing will support all the resources until to the lowest level such as villages. And also the government is launching the grand design for forest prevention and suppression coordination with Ministry, coordinator, economic Bapenas and Ministry of Environment. By the commitment of the government as President Jokowi stated, every year during the 2016, 2017 and 2018, the last February, it is indicate that government Indonesia are really serious to combat the forest fire all over Indonesia. So from this our lesson and commitment for the next during the last two years we have get effort should we become benchmarking for combating the forest fire in the next future. And also increasing the cooperation, commitment and hard working with the multi-stakeholder to reduce the number of hotspots and burn area. Most important, the readiness and handling forest and land fire through the initial attack early suppression has to be priority for all forest land in the provincial. Commitment and compliance to protect the working area of the private sectors should be more implemented. Readiness of human resources and equipment for all stakeholders and community involvement in the forest and land fire prevention should be more attention. And the last, the action law enforcement we have to implement to all private sector, especially who the actor to burn the land or area in their forest or outside the forest. I think this is our presentation model. Thank you for your kind. We hear it's very expensive investment here in terms of fighting or suppressing fire. We also hear about the law enforcement as far as fire is concerned, but we didn't hear much about preparedness. Perhaps in one word you can explain to us how the preparedness done across the government agencies with participation with people. Thank you. We have done a prevention during the last two years by coordination among stakeholders, especially ministerial, it's the central level, provincial level and district level. All the resources from the government and stakeholders, especially the private company that they are managing the peat land area is very big. By the new regulation, ministerial enforcement, as I said before, number 32, 2016, all the private sector, they already fulfill the resources, especially for equipment, for the personnel and the controlling every year their area. This has not happened before 2016, never. During the last 2016 it's become more attention and we have already some inspect to some company, they have already prepared some equipment and also they are trying to involve the local people surrounding the area to be involved to prepare the fire by taking them to the group to control the fire and give some incentive by the company, also the government from ministerial enforcement to teach the local people to be more community Mangala Maseraka Puduliapi to be more attention when the fire occur, they must be the first responder to give, to put it up if they cannot put it up, they can give some information to us by command center, they already settled in province and communicate to the central government. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next we will hear how the international community is going to participate in this process. Andrew Kemble is the CEO or director of ACR who is planning to do something in central Kalimantan and how issues related to livelihood is taken care of when pit land management and managing degraded pit land is going to be taking place. Andrew. Thank you very much, Daniel. And thank you to the organizers for inviting me to this event. And I'm sorry the speakers can't see the slides. I put that slide up mainly to because it's an excuse for showing my own farm in south-eastern Australia with my own woodlots. So I'm a forester professionally but also involved in farm forestry on my own farm. And ACR, the Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research, is part of the Foreign Affairs portfolio in Australia. I report direct to Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and we organize and fund research partnerships between Australia and countries in our region and we've been working in Indonesia with Indonesian partners for many years. So it's a great pleasure to be here and to see so many of our researchers in the room. Next slide please. I have a few very simple points. I'm a great fan of the historian Simon Sharma and he says that landscapes are where nature meets culture. And I think for us biophysical scientists we spend a lot of time trying to understand nature. We don't spend as much time trying to understand culture and how that shapes the landscape and the interaction between social and cultural values and perceptions and hopes and fears on the way in which landscapes are managed. So we won't be able to develop durable solutions to the problems of peatlands unless the people are looked after. You can't look after the peat without looking after the people who live in and around the peat. So our durable solutions require viable alternative livelihoods for the people who are living in and around the peat. Next slide please. So if you think about the implications of what seems like a very simple statement it means that we need multidisciplinary approaches and we need to be able to work across multiple agencies. No single government department no single industry or no single level has all the tools they need to tackle this complex problem. So we need forestry and environment and fisheries and agriculture and the economics portfolios working together on these issues with civil society and with industry and with local communities especially. So that requires both in science and in policy and in the interface between them approaches that are both multidisciplinary so they involve a lot of different perspectives but transdisciplinary in that they involve the end users as well as the scientists, the experts. Experts cannot solve the problem of the peatlands. They can contribute ideas and knowledge but ultimately the local people on the ground have to be involved and have to have ownership. So I was involved in a program in Australia called Landcare which we've been doing for 30 years and I think we can say that we have changed social norms. 40 or 50 years ago a farmer who planted trees in Australia was seen as a bit odd was seen as eccentric or strange. Now planting trees is seen as good farming so we have changed the perceptions around that land use and I think we need to be thinking about how you change social norms to look after peatlands. Next slide please, my final slide. So this is very early stages but my agency ACR and our sister agency DFAT are working with a range of Indonesian partners that are listed there cheaply 40 or an IRD but also other partners universities and NGOs. Along with CSIRO and ANU and Australian universities James Cook and Latrobe and Sunshine Coast to develop a long-term research program on peatlands. I've said to our staff that we should be planning for at least 10 years but in my view probably 20 years of work on this issue. I don't see it as an issue that can be solved in a three-year project. So we need to take the time to understand the drivers of peatland fire in particular and to ensure that we're dealing with the core drivers not just the symptoms of the problem. So I don't want to make any grand promises except that we will try to work very closely with our Indonesian partners for a long time on a complex problem. It's wonderful that you have reduced the number of fires so much. The time will tell in the next big drought if in 10 years time or 20 years time the number is still so low. We've been working with fire research in Australia for a long time and I was the head of the northern node of the bushfires CRC in Australia and for the first 15 years of that cooperative research centre the emphasis was on suppression. How can we get better at putting fires out? Better mapping, infrared, better helicopters, aerial bombing of fires. And then we had the very, very big fires of 2009, which we couldn't put out. They burnt for many months. And we realised that for better fire management we needed to invest in anthropology. We needed to understand the psychology of arson. We needed to understand the community psychology of preparedness, of why is it that some people listen to warnings or advice and other people don't. How can you share information across a society when there is no telephones and no electricity? So these are really interesting questions in contemporary fire management. So that's why I think this is a long-term problem and I'm very happy to be working with you on it. We look forward to hopefully a very productive partnership and with many of the people in the room. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Give applause to Andrew. One thing I would like to perhaps hear the emphasis here. In the first three years that you are planning is there any way of capturing or learning the lessons success and failure from the past? Do you have any intention to do that? I have taken the process. Yes. The answer is yes. So as promised, I think to wake you up you also have the opportunity to ask questions to our first three speakers on issues that they are trying to share with us concerning control of water, fire and international collaboration especially those who are emphasizing in the livelihood aspect of the people. We have a lot of questions from the floor. You're raising your hand? Paesal and then Ibu Johan. One more maybe over here. No? Okay. Let's start with two. Did I see it? Okay. Sorry. Your name is? You will be the third one. Paesal. Thank you. Please identify yourself. Paesal Parish Global Environment Center, Malaysia. So for Ibu Ate, I think as you presented there's been good progress to secure agreement of the private sector to rehabilitate the peatland area, very large area, by enhancing water level and in some cases restoring the graded area. However, that's very fantastic success. I think 2.3 million hectares you mentioned but what have been the main challenges to get to that? Has there been resistance? Was there full agreement? What challenges have you faced? Secondly, for Pat Raffles, you showed the fantastic reduction from 2015 to 2017 in the fires and you emphasized the importance of the multi-stakeholder engagement as a model for other countries to follow. What is your hope for 2018? Will there be further reduction or further challenge? As Andrew mentioned, the drought year will be coming and El Nino will come in the future. So do you feel the strategy you've adopted now will be adequate for the El Nino year or would you need further work to be done? Thank you. Thank you. My name is Tutcho Han from Universitas Garjamada. I have the question for Ibu Ati. The stakeholder empowerment in the tropical pit management, how far it works? Because it's a lot of area. So I think my question is not far from Paparis. And the second question for Pat Raffles, do you think that the decrease of the fire due to the condition of rainy season? I mean last year we have all year rainy season and this year also we still have rainy season. So I think my question also not far away. So because maybe next year will coming the El Nino year. So we have to be careful about that in declaration that we decrease the fire. And the third question for Professor Campbell, transdisciplinary approach, can you elaborate more how far that it's worked because you said you did that in Australia? So how can we approach that? So I agree with you. Planting the trees is not three years work. It's a lot of years, 10 to 20 years. So I think we have also in Indonesia to think about that. So how do we can increase the livelihood for the people surrounding the pitland area? So thank you very much. My name is Laura Graham from the Borneo Orangutan Survival Foundation in Kalimantan. I was very interested to hear about Pat Raffles presenting on Jacowe's 11 steps to fire reduction, his new strategy. I was also interested to see that when you presented on the fire area in 2015 there was a differentiation between the areas that were on mineral soil and the areas that were on pitland. The project that I work on is looking at how peatland fires transition down into the peat, because of course you can have a peatland surface fire that has a degree of emissions but it's when the fire goes down into the peat that the emissions are much more severe. Of course on mineral soil you will have the surface fire but you can't have a subsequent peat fire. So I'm wondering if within those 11 steps of Jacowe's strategy is there differentiation whether the fire is occurring on mineral or on peatland and should the fire management strategy differentiate between if it's a mineral soil, if it's a peatland surface fire or if it's actually a fire that has already gone down into the peat. Thank you. Thank you very much for the question, for Haris's question. The first, the key point is how to make it us being ignored in the first to be the person being searched by everybody to get the supervision and facilitation to peatland restoration and management. It is indeed really difficult for us in the first session of our public communication our socialization our workshop when we invite the concession holders about the regulation related to the peatland restoration and management several complaints come and then ignore but in the end they come asking for help and facilitation but it is indeed take time we have to patient to talk to communicate with them using their language of course don't ever talk with or you have to restore the peatland because it will be a disaster for the community and so on and so on and the regulation mention this don't ever talk with this talk that the ecosystem peatland ecosystem is very very valuable not only for the government of Indonesia not only for the community but also the sustainability of their business find this kind of language is we have to be practice first not success and then secondly and so on and in the end we mentioned before regarding to prove Daniel questions first being ignore by the plantation and then currently there are 80 concession holders in the plantation already have the certification and already implement the restoration peatland restoration and management how far it work as I already mentioned before it works the achievement is already far the number of the company the industries the number of communities that already involved also but being patient is the most important thing use another language when the first you have to come up you have to face the difficulties try another way to discuss we will talk to the stakeholders thank you thank you first of all of course in 2018 if El Nino comes but I don't know exactly whether it's come or not but based on they said this year is more hot than 2017 if we are implement this all the action will be done since 2000 I think my answer will related to Ibu Pugem we use we implement this the instruction of Jokowi we involve the local people the lowest level Valadesa Babinsa Babikapitmas and stakeholders and local community is to become one group to patrol the villages since 2016 we just implemented we started before we never use this system I have investigate and indicate 1200 and 4 villages from fire in 12 provinces those this area is become my target to patrol by consist of the Babinsa why we use the Babinsa and police because mostly people in the lowest level sometimes they not aware if only or only villages instructions when we use integrated patrol so that the fire the hospital is decrease why decrease because before fire become bigger the team suddenly suppress the fire so it is not bigger it happens during the 2 years and if we implement this during the 2018 will be I hope will be the same as 2017 at least the number increasing is around 80% for 2015 and the second thing for Johan from UGM is become weather season or because of accident I can show you what the accident 2015 2016 17 and 18 in 2015 we employ so many so many action in the field but no happen it is not decrease the fire it is almost 1,200,000 ton water suppressed from the aircraft it is not put it off the fire we experience it too so 2.6 million hectare was born 2015 but when we change the 2016 we use the integrated patrol with the Babinsa and my Mangal Agni it screw through the village that already identified 2015 is the very front area because the fire always happen in the same villages it can be reduce 3 times of 3 years because they want to clear the area during 3 time seasons so why we doing we identify the villages and that area so no one can burn the area I show you in 2015 there are 32 aircraft helicopter we use for suppression the water is 150 millions and also the modification rain artificial 1,200,000 salt but it don't happen but in 2016 we only use 16 aircraft and the water is 100 millions liters is spread from the air also we use modifications weather spread 128 salt and in 2017 we use 26 aircraft to suppress the initial fire so when we attack with suppression by aircraft not to suppress the big fire to suppress this small fire so it's not make a bigger fire it's what happen why 2 years has become significant decrease the number of the activity from the higher and ground suppression is working together by common system with already setup in 8 province prone area this year it always work and supporting by funding of course the money without money you can work yeah I hope 2018 more like 2017 recently I will told you during the January until April now the hospital a little bit higher than the last years yeah and also the action in the field we have already support some integrated patrol to Riau province Kalimantan Barat Kalimantan Tengah integrated patrol and the helicopter water bombing have been done 3.2 million liter water in Riau have been done to put it up the fire is the remote area it is will be more efficient if we use the helicopter water bombing when the fire is still small bigger it cannot happen this ah mineral fire yes the mineral fire we implement it also the yeah the integrated patrol the problem is in mineral fire it's happen maybe one day it's finish not effect it's not big effect but even the emission can produce emission but it's not as pot pitland fire I think this my question thanks Daniel to Ibu the professor from Ugeem you ask about transdisciplinary research maybe I should share a paper with you that I wrote last year on the differential roles of funders and researchers and end users in transdisciplinary research but for me multi-disciplinary research is when you look at the same problem through different disciplinary lenses but the disciplines don't necessarily work together in doing so interdisciplinary is when you bring different disciplines together and sometimes you finish up having a baby and making a new discipline like ecological economics or something like that but transdisciplinary is when you don't just have the scientists working but also the end users of the research are involved in the inquiry process sometimes in helping to formulate the question but more often in a broader and in an adaptive way starting to use the results of the research as it's still happening and then obviously in scaling out the work so again we have a big tradition of this type of work with farmers in Australia through farming systems research groups and also an environment through land care groups and friends of groups and others and citizen science has a a lot to contribute in transdisciplinary research so I'm happy to share that paper with you afterwards but I think for complex long-term problems like this then you need to have the the people whose actions need to be involved in the solution also need to be involved in gathering the information and helping to frame the management options if people have been involved in gathering the data they're more likely to trust the results than if they're just told this is the answer by the experts okay well thank you very much that's the first round you can always come back to the speakers later but I think it was to be more practical and perhaps also give some recommendation related to the aspect they've been talking about so we have the first speaker Solihin Solihin is with diameter a consulting firm it's been producing a lot of maps and all kind of tools related to pitland ecosystem so that's what I call him it's been done with regard to pitland biomass vegetation distribution pit depth canal etc thank you thank you good afternoon everyone thank you from from the organizer that already inviting me here today I'm gonna talk about several aspects related to our inventories and mappings in pitland so previously I have about 21 slides but Pa Danil insists me to have only to reduce it to 10 but I can only be 11 so I think it's to be okay yeah so there are four, actually four I'm gonna talk about first is related with biomass inventory and the second is about improved land cover mapping using LIDAR and the third is about pit depth mapping and the fourth is about canal mappings using LIDAR as well so pit depth mapping maybe I can also explain a little bit what we do related with the pit mapping price and so this is not part of diameter actually but I will explain it anyway so yeah there are currently we have a lot of data sets related with the forest and biomass inventory especially we use it for forest reference emission level but yeah we found that it is not sufficient for especially if sub-national or provincial or district or project level want to use it normally they develop their own survey itself so there are several components that you have to consider for these stratifications I think it is very important because it can reduce the uncertainty or standard error or it can also reduce the number of samples if you want to attain certain accuracy so it is very important because and it's possible right now because we have a lot of base map related with land cover so you can use land cover map as stratifications but for Indonesia because we have you know a huge area and currently we only use stratifications in island so island as the stratifications but we suggest if you want to develop sampling design stratification using land cover map is very important so currently we have 23 classes 23 classes of land cover and not all classes has been covered by sufficient plots so this is quite challenging but actually we also have many other initiatives related with the biomass or vegetation inventory so I think this is also interesting to integrate these initiatives into one single database that can be used for biomass mapping and the second component is related with sampling method so I think it is it's not so I mean there are several options but we can choose either systematic sampling, random sampling or land sampling so three of them are acceptable so it depends on the maybe terrain or accessibility or things like that so and then for biomass inventory we have to consider a major carbon pools we know we have five carbon pools but I'm sure not all carbon pools are important in our ecosystem so for example for pitland normally I skip the litter because it's very low percentage and for standard error we have actually currently we have national standard for carbon inventory and now it's under we are revising this standard and 20% of standard error is mentioned in this national standard so I think 5 to 20% should be okay so if you are working for project level I think aiming at 5 should be safe because sometimes after the result normally you get higher uncertainty so less than 20 should be fine and make sure that you do this for multiple purposes so not only for biomass but also for example for vegetation or fires or wildlife so that the cost is expensive anyway but you get more data set so that's the idea of forest inventory and yeah for integrating the existing initiative it is important that you have certain platform so this is something that we are lacking of so yeah I think this is something that maybe the government of Indonesia can think about this how to integrate the existing forest inventory into the system and the next slide please so for pit swamp forest we already have allometric equation specific for pit swamp forest trees in Indonesia so we already publish these equations in 2014 based on samples from Sumatra and Kalimantan pit swamp forest which is from it's quite the number of samples quite high is 146 samples from diameter 5 to 160 cm so it's huge trees we have cut down and from this we differentiated the equations based on species grouping or mixed species so if we have let's say detailed data about diameter 3 height and wood density then I suggest you to use these equations for mixed species should be fine but otherwise species group can reduce the uncertainty and even you don't need the wood density for this as long as you know is it deep drill and is it light wood or heavy wood so it can help you to reduce the uncertainty of the biomass estimation so this already published in 2014 but sometimes it is often important for you to validate the existing equations so if you have enough resources I think it's very good to cut little bit some more trees to validate this but sometimes it's not possible to cut trees in the area for example in national park or okay so two minutes already but we also develop a method for non-destructive sampling using terrestrial ladder so yeah we will talk about this if you want and the next one is to improve the land cover mapping I think this is also important that if you have a ladder this is something that ladder can do best is the height of the vegetation so canopy height model can be used to improve the land cover mapping this is the example of how we develop the land cover mapping using canopy next please next yeah this one is maps for land cover mapping and fuse with the canopy height model next please so this is the result from the KFGP project I would like to thank Pagrahem Applegate providing me this data so we use this the ladder data and use for estimating the land cover map or creating developing land cover maps based on the height the three heights and you can see this is the table is the the the height class and you can see the graph is the variations or the estimations of the height and the standard error with the error bar and in the middle is the study using ladder all of the classes is significantly different compared with other maps next please we also develop above ground biomass using ladder and this is involving ground measurements and develop regression model based on ground measurement and ladder matrix and then in the right map you can see this the left map is the land cover and the right map is above ground biomass you can see the variation is really high even in the same land cover maps next please