 靺                             Yoo        was going on a daily basis. We'll see if we watched the federal government to look into the nations that profile as soon as possible stated that 2024 budget presented by President Bola Tinumbu has an aggregate expenditure estimated at 27.5 trillion and that details of the budget showed that the government budgeted 8.25 trillion naira 30% for debt servicing in 2022 according to the debt management office DMO Nigeria's total debt profile Nigeria's total public debt rose to 87.38 trillion in the second quarter of 2023 recording an increase of 75.29% joining us to look at this is the president of the Association of Small Business Owners in Nigeria Asbon Dr. Fermi Egbeshola Doctor, good to have you on Plus Politics Hello Dr. Egbeshola Yes, I can hear you good evening Good evening And thank you for having me Pleasure is all ours, we really want to thank you Doctor, how does it feel to be an entrepreneur a value innovator in a micro economic environment where debt does not only choke the public expenditure but indeed is creating unbearable factors such as high interest rate such as inflationary trade for people like you How does it feel? Well it is unfortunate and it is the worst of times for those of us who are in the micro-small and medium business sector it has been very very tough particularly for this past one or two years we have been visiting other lines of challenges reading from those that we have mentioned and beyond that and to show that it has been very difficult it has shown that about 20 to 25% of businesses have closed shop and the bigger businesses also we can see that report shows that they are relocating from Nigerian roads quite a lot of conglomerate multinationals are leaving the shops of the country to other clients where they feel that ease of business will enable them to do better when making their business more viable and be able to stabilise the business it has been that bad and we have been thinking that there will be hope along the line but as we speak the hope is elusive we are confused the sector is in their dilemma of course you remember that we are the one that employs 86% of all the jobs jobs in the country and we created 94% of the businesses in the country and the biggest sector is impacted negatively it should be a concern for everybody particularly governments because we are the engine room of growth and nothing ought to stamp up or hamper our successes in business but the reverse is the case now we are not breathing we need to breathe government needs to help us always and one of the way is what we are talking about today having a project or borrowing if you look at the budget you will discover that the debt amount is almost at power with the revenue that the country is going to generate for the period of the year 2024 that's not a development project or budget and it means that there is much to do a lot needs to be looked at we need to begin to talk about how to reduce our debt profile and begin to generate more revenue and it is good that we are talking about it this time Dr Beshola I wonder at your at your next meetings and when you have your plenary I wonder what your members tell you about the cost of power I am just thinking as a Nigerian now maybe because I am an entrepreneur too that in the last one calendar year your cost of power generation running basic lightings in your offices I am not even talking about those who run machinery and equipment just basic lighting in your offices and making sure that you don't get choked by it running your air conditioning system especially in an environment where power is epileptic and you have to run generators and a liter of diesel now is averaging 1,250 to 1,300 just give us your experience just tell Nigerians maybe those who are in government can get to hear and listen what it takes to be a micro medium entrepreneur in today's Nigeria I am so happy that you are feeling our babies and you are speaking so well and rightly that is a lot this time when the first subsidy was removed we were expecting that before government would go that far some form of alternative will have been provided one of such alternative is the stable power supply we would have expected that power would have been proved but unfortunately power did not improve because the megawatt has been generated from over 6,000 megawatt to less than 4,000 and that has been challenging it is very tough for us we spend so much on power generation and accessing power it has been epileptic we are funding our own power projects our own power supply our own power generation all by ourselves and of course we have limited resources in our disposal so for us to be able to power this and power that it is a lot and it is telling on our profit and that is why you have quite a number of prices going up every day because we have to pass the bill to the consumers for example if we take that as an instance I run a business whereby I spend about 250,000 Lira daily on diesel every day I spend an average of 250,000 Lira 250,000 Lira to just to power your 40 lines or 12 by generator yes you can imagine if I can save that in 30 days I may not need to go to any bank for loans because that would have been good enough to cater for all the expenses that I need to run doctor I need to quickly put this in in view of the last point you just made when the president removed subsidy whether planned or unplanned the first line of communications we were getting from his media and last was that we will be doing energy transition that we will be transiting to using say CNG which is far cheaper and I'm sitting here now talking to you you just don't know me that you know what if anybody should tell us if government is serious enough about the energy transition opportunity that presents itself behind the the last rating challenges we have now it should be you because you are the leader of the businesses that ought to revolutionize our energy this thing properly enshoe by the government I hope I'm making a point are you in any way shape or form getting feelers from your members that the government is putting out there articulate policies to engage with your members say in energy sector at the micro level in training of this manpower that have been needed for the transition in enterprise investment in conversion say generator conversion vehicular conversion are you getting that feedback as the leader of people who should be the army of the revolution at the moment we are not and it is not too good for us we have been clamoring overtime that for us to get it right as a country we need to work together we need to collaborate together we have been advocating that government needs to collaborate with various stakeholders critical stakeholders in every sector for example in our sector we expect that for policies to be made that will affect us directly we should be part of the making of the policy we are the one that wears the shoes we know where it pinches the most and we expect that the government will always engage us when policies are being made that will help us to co-create the policy it will help us to hold the policy it will help us to give our own sort of advice and suggestions to government and when those policies are being passed out by the head of the exercise who will be part of those who will implement evaluate, monitor and see that the policy is a success but unfortunately as we speak that has not been made possible we hope that in future time government will seem to collaborate more with us we are the one that these people those in the micro, small and medium sector they listen to us the more the people, the business owners at the point in time have become disenfranchised people from good government they have confidence in whatever government says again they believe in the leaders of these business membership organizations and when we tell them this is what we need to do they listen to us more than government when we tell them for you to generate taxes you need to work with us the very interesting part of interviewing you this evening doctor is that I guess as a result of the fact that you are not only a doctor of theory but a doctor of practice when it comes to entrepreneurialism you are actually the one giving me the feeder to chase your to chase your intellectual you have just spoken to another another challenge that that seems to be to be choking businesses or a musculating businesses in our ecosystem and that is multiple taxation somebody like you I guess who is in manufacturing before vehicles move from your from your yard to the market one area boys somewhere we stop your drivers want to take one money they want to enter the market want to fee or want want power this thing we take his own money these are all taxes to the business that are not going to the public post and I'm thinking why has God be so gracious that you are even still looking this handsome with all those challenges I will say it is the grace of God when it comes to taxes that's another big topic that we cannot exhaust it will shock you to know that some of the vehicles some of these trucks moving on the roads have over 100 different tax papers different papers over 100 of them 100 as in 100 over 100 begin to count 1234 and you count over 100 different papers in forms of taxes and levies and begin to wonder where it is and we are happy that the current government of the day has put up a committee on tax and fiscal reforms we hope that at the end of the day this committee will be able to come out with a wonderful report we had the first phase of the report and I must tell you that we are able to make some contributions white paper to the committee hoping that it will be part of the final recommendation that will be made to governments and adaptation we hope that the government will be able to implement and adapt those recommendations that will be made we have been clamoring for unified harmonized taxes the people are ready to pay taxes but when you begin to see the kind of taxes coming to you every day and the way and manner they come it makes you become a vast of taxes it makes you not want to pay taxes more so when you see the affluence of political leaders compared to the kind of infrastructure the care of infrastructure we have in the country you become a vast of taxes we want to pay taxes we want the government to even expand their tax net because we really want to pay taxes but what about paying taxes more to even the non-state actors who are littering the road from every kilometer we go you make these say cut-offs on the road demanding for these and that some of these say cut-offs but mount their road block beside the police police road block and the police will look away and nothing happens you begin to wonder what really is happening is the government actually promoting ease of green business or ease of killing business that's why we use the word avalanche of challenges it is just too modernized we are just surviving by the grace of God and that's why the data showing the number of businesses that are closing by the day is alarming I told you the other time that the data showed about 20 to 25% of businesses are closed up according to data we have about 40 million businesses at the moment so when we are talking about 2025 we are talking about 10 million businesses folding up 10 million businesses is alarming it gives everybody shivers we are all being pressured in remaking to the capacity of the businesses and raise the capacity and leaving the country in groups to do many jobs abroad it's affecting the branding of a country it's affecting our image it's discouraging the young world from embracing entrepreneurship and it is not good for us because if we don't develop this sector why are we going to engage these seeming graduates that needs jobs tomorrow how are we going to engage them how are we going to grow our economy how will our tax grow also how will our revenue grow if we are not growing this sector I am happy that we are bringing this up now and I believe that if one of us put our hands on there keep talking about this maybe one day just one day government will hear about it and see needs to do something something just will be done to us instead of a market to be clear this sector we really really really have to thank people like you for resilience for tenacity for value innovation for entrepreneurial creativity and I must say that I actually pray that people like you will beat the odds and enjoy the beneficence of the invisible but very very rugged war that you are putting up to survive as businesses in Nigeria wish you all the best sir amen thank you so much it goes beyond clear thank you so very much thank you