 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my one and only singular co-host to the man from the woods himself the original tree father the tree lord Wow Absolutely. Well, you're not you're just a tree lord. I mean, let's not be crazy, right? There's not the Like if anyone we would be like the tree lord ancient Okay, yeah, I mean technically Rob signs to the very first video. Do you remember that video that he did that? I do introduction to the lot of us his games workshop marketing video going through the 7th battle tone So he probably has a distinction, but yeah, but Rob is like a branch wraith. He's getting he's gotten moved to legends That's fair Joining us also this week David welcome buddy first time on the show We're very happy to have you a fellow Sylvaneth enthusiast. How you doing? I'm doing great. It's been a good day. We're talking about Sylvaneth Yeah, I'm really excited As am I this is going to be obviously the Sylvaneth battle tone review show. We're gonna get into it We're gonna break this tome down I'm actually very excited for this. So I've gotten one game in playing Sylvaneth and two games against Sylvaneth I am a hundred percent record across that so far That is to say I beat them every time I played them in one when I piloted them So I'm just gonna I think it's time to retire again Tyler This is how I go out of the on the the thousand percent record against Sylvaneth or with Sylvaneth involving Sylvaneth And I just never play him again, but at any rate first up, of course, we've got some news Tyler What do you got? Yeah, let's make it a quick one. So rumor engine looks 40k ish or necromundish Is there anything you guys can think of an AOS that? This would work for new flagellants Flagellants, yeah, it's a little spiky for them, but there you go new flagellants Kind of guesses. I looked a little bit Chaos sigily, so I was thinking maybe it's gonna be coming up on that skirmish preview. Maybe through in some with war cry Could just be something hanging off in new slaves to darkness model as well Because we know we're getting a bunch of reasons of like all of that stuff You know we're to get new chosen and the new minotaur people and all sorts of good stuff So I mean the end of the year promises to be awesome if you love slaves of darkness and I do Slaves to darkness so I I'm excited for what that bodes could be that Very good. We have a skirmish preview coming up Vince. I don't know much about this I've been a little offline A warmer preview online sunday july 10th 2 p.m Standard time. I'm guessing that's what that is. Yeah, what's this gonna be about? All the skirmish games. So the the important part to us is like they're gonna do I assume they're it's it's called like their summer skirmish preview spectacular, right And I assume we'll see like new stuff for kill team and news, you know, like it's gonna be a lot of like especially I imagine we'll see some of the dual boxes They're coming for like kill team and maybe some new underworld stuff because I think they probably count that in their In their skirmish thing, but obviously also war cry. So I'm hoping that what they announce is like, hey, here's the new here's the new Version of war cry as has been we've we've suspected we're getting a new version of war cry this summer that would make Uh, that will be the three-year cycle Okay, so like if underworld or sorry if um war cry gets a new edition Then that's the three-year cycle that all the other games are on so we expect it this summer So I expect they'll announce the new uh, war cry edition slash the Cool and yes, there you go. They do so hooves is confirmed to guess underworlds will be part of that too. So I assume that that'll be The announcement and then we'll see the nergal guys versus the horns of a shit dual block or you know, launch box or whatever so chef All right, very good. Cool stuff. I mean like Uh, the the reason we all love underworlds is because once in a while We get an uh a small underworld set that has like awesome rules for aos But most of the time we just get cool models for our units, which is also fine Yep, absolutely Okay, we had a fact drop And again, I haven't looked in the details of this too much. I've been a little off this week with news and such Yeah, now What I see you mostly Yeah, it mostly looked like it was just Incorporating a lot of what we'd already knew is there but I'm sure there's a controversy in there somewhere controversy What do they Would you like to talk about that like I have the controversy image loaded up Would you like to give your your read on what this is and explain what's the the controversy is with folks? I were looking at the controversy image. I'd take that chance. You know, I'll just guess and yes, give it a guess Yeah Fixing things which don't need fixing and weren't broken He don't need them Backing all the bonuses and then saying max whatever you're you said it to You are correct. Let's talk about it. That is exceed you nailed it. David. You nailed it. You knew because there was only one remotely controversial thing happening here But here we are question If a unit is affected by an ability that adds to or subtracts from a characteristic Okay, so adds to or subtracts like in other words has a bonus a modifier And then by an ability that changes a characteristic to a specific value i.e a set Value, okay, not a bonus or modifier Uh, no, Jose not not fulminators and bounty hunters that would not matter So for example at achillian king who in the hero phase casts flaming weapon or maybe he's got an arcane tome or something I don't know he cast flaming weapon. Sure. All right And then uses the wave writer ability in the following charge phase which sets the damage value Okay to like three I think Uh In the following charge phase do both effects apply Answer no, they don't if the effect of a rule changes a characteristic to a specific value It overrides any earlier modifiers Okay So in other words The Killian king whose base damage is like one goes to damage two because of plus one damage That's what flaming weapon does then he charges and the charge says it sets your damage to three So the setting overrides all previous bonuses Okay Now this little spicy fix here. First of all doesn't need to exist exactly as david said And it causes it does cause some issues now some of lawyer warhammer twitter Because that is the thing Uh, there are there are there's a good section Uh Gloria nico i'm sure leading the charge Oh you you know it our good brother friend of the show one of my favorite people in the world nico Had a lot to say about this and and is like all over it I don't agree with most of his cases Things like bounty hunters doesn't really pose a problem the the issue is it sets you up for like effect Stacking tracking that like doesn't need to be there things like bounty hunters don't really matter Because like when you charge and it sets your damage to something as a lot of cav does right a lot of Cav has like a lance that'll say like on the charge set your damage to this as opposed to gain plus two damage If you're then in bounty hunters On top of that well then bounty hunters triggers when you fight the unit that is a galley bet That's clearly the logical construct for the trigger there Okay, like because because it's not always on so it has to trigger Right. It is not like taking bounty hunters is not plus one two damage. That's not what happens Right. It's when you fight a galley vet. You're plus one to damage like that's trigger effect. Okay. That's the logical construct So at any rate it there's all sorts of other things and like, you know nico is looking out at other Elements of what happens when these kinds of things are set and i'm like well, you know like for example your capture mechanic And i'm like that's not a characteristic All right, that would be my simple argument now Hmm It is still dumb and annoying and doesn't need to exist And I will give you the funniest situation that can happen here. Are you ready? This is actually, uh a dock nerf I bet you didn't know that But here it is. I knew that That's that's on brand for a warm and weekly. So i'm excited for this. So here is why this nerf Yes, this is why this nerf's daughter's a cane Okay, which which means which makes me happy because that means it will get fixed Because we can't we can't abide that Okay All right, so uh at any rate In dock there is a thing called the gladiatorix the high gladiatorix, right? And her benefit is that if you're wholly within 12 of her She sets your wound your two wound characteristic to three up for witch elves and sisters And she sets their rents to neg one Like instead of its normal number, okay, so those are two set mechanics Like it is setting to a value not adding or subtracting with me so far Cool. Cool. All right, so we have some witches who are in drakeganeth And who have been mined razor'd So on the charge they will they would theoretically have neg three rent, right one from because they're at neg one from the the gladiatorix one from mined razor one from Being in drakeganeth So then they charge but when they charge they pass out even one model passes outside of wholly within her bubble Okay So the way we would have played that before Is so they pass out her bubble then she charges and she charges been in as well So they go here. She goes here. They're now back wholly within her bubble. You with me so far Unit charges. She charges They were out of her bubble momentarily no matter who charged first. They would have been out of the bubble momentarily. Yeah Okay So the way we would have all logically played that before is their rent three They were rent three they charged mined razor blah blah blah blah blah their rent three The way this rule says to play that is Okay, so it was set at neg one then it got these two bonuses when they charged drakegan mined razor. Yeah Or whatever They charged out they lost the base bubble They passed out of the bubble range when she charges back in and puts them back in her bubble She sets their rent back to neg one Because previous bonuses don't apply So she she sets because she's setting a stat. She would override previous bonuses namely those things that had already previously applied She will ignore all that and set it back to neg one. That's obviously a horribly counter-intuitive effect Bright side, you don't need to adjust her points if that's how she works We can go ahead and keep her at 90 and that's fine Um, but the right thing is obviously to just undo this. This is silly like just let it work intuitively and Um, and and then we can just be fine Sorry, I was gonna say it's supposed to be frequently asked questions So my question is who in the world asked that more than once right? Yeah. Yeah who didn't like I If your achillian king had plus one to damage and he charged and said his damage to three everybody in the universe Would have just been like, okay, he's damaged for now That's that's how we've all played all the time Okay and like I when I when stuff like this happens where they create an faq that's so obviously counter-intuitive in its consequences I just hey, what's up broadsword? How you doing? uh the I I'm forced to be like Think like you're a judge like you're like you're like you're a supreme court type judge, right? and like think of your story to sizes and And and like common interpretation of how laws have been applied Matters in your decision, right? You can't just upend things normally um and And like if it's going to provide like an undue burden in your in your ruling You tend to use like the weight of how people commonly view things as part of your decision making, right? That's how that's how like high courts tend to work to work right And so like this should be the same thing like nobody thought like this stop it just switch it back Just be like never mind. Sorry delete done Like easy You know what I mean? Just just delete the thing and we can go back to all playing the way we know And everybody's fine and it's no issue Or if you want to just erase the answer and be like Yes, they go together Next Like that's weird because like this isn't magic magic has this this concept You know anything by the way, I don't think this is like the biggest deal. It's not like it's messing things up like magic has this Because in magic you can have a bunch of bonuses and modifiers on your card and then it can be set To a stat so like then it becomes a three three frog. Okay. Well all those bonuses go away It's just a three three frog now. That's how magic works But magic has a stack and an easy to track order of operations and and all of that, right? Um, that's not how warhammer works. Let's not try to do that. Let's just go ahead and be like Let's just let's just keep this easy math is math That easy cool David we're filling up the we're filling up the bingo card early 15 minutes in we've got a dock nerf on the table We've got a magic the gathering reference. We're off to a great start. Get them done boys. Get them done. Absolutely. That's what we got to get in Most relevant things we talk about on this show Dock nerfs and uh and magic the gathering All right, so that's all the news anything else David any final thoughts from you on this one? Um, I just get really annoyed when they answer questions Which didn't need answering and then don't answer questions, which I really hoped they would answer Uh, I got some friends of mine starting up night hunt. They got a bunch of questions where I'm like Hey, I think it works this way They're like, but I want the rules to say that and I'm like Uh questions like with the banshees, um What does it mean to choose a unit to be affected by a spell with reference to AOEs? How does their ability trigger? Yeah? Yeah, um Tom was telling us about that one early on. Yeah Yeah, and I mean I get it like it's new book But like, you know, there were hard questions which needed to be answered and uh, you wasted time With that Yeah, yeah, I I look forward to the night hunt FAQ. I agree. Like I don't know how we don't have that yet But yet here we are um like we're in the with the next books are out We don't have the full FAQ that we should have for the previous book, which is weird Um, so anyway Um, but yeah, there's that so cool. Um fix this and thank you Again, it's not like the end of the world. It's not the end of the game. It does not even it's not even something Most players would ever encounter or care about it's just a silly It's just a silly thing that doesn't need to be there. It'll that'll catch somebody in a stupid way sometime. So That's all easy peasy. All right gentlemen, well Let's go to some pick of the week. So pick of the week Uh, David you're the guest start us off. What would you like to share with everybody? Uh, well, uh, Jordan Duncan from season of war has that amazing, uh, lady of irons conversion I kept on trying to look at different podcasts and stuff and I'm like, no So there's nothing which is better than this. This is the best thing I've seen all year It made me happy It is super gorgeous. You can find it linked below. It is really really beautiful My only problem is the lady doesn't fly but it's not does not say a matter You know wings on it I wonder why you didn't do it for the war song revenue because because that That guy does fly or that that model does fly. I could see a similar sort of conversion there as well But it's gorgeous. I mean, it's absolutely stunningly gorgeous and Uh, look, it's time to start lifting puss coil blightwings Uh, blightlord wings. That's that's what that tells us right there. Those things are just made for new sylvaneth. It's bug time So there you go All right, tyler. You've got like 50 picks of the week. Go for it I'm gonna make up for it. David. You gotta gotta come in a little hotter. Don't you pick up the week Do do not do not listen to him. You did the exact correct thing david and thank you tyler. Go ahead All right, so we've got two excellence. I'm gonna battle some reviews. I wanted to give a shout out to uh, how did this Gratigoi I believe It's uh, I think it's a greek word that I haven't said in a very long time They have a really cool channel. They did a great review went through a lot of lists But yeah, it's a relatively new channel So go over there to come out give them a visual like and subscribe And then gran line stuff alex and his buddy. They did a really nice in depth chats over three hours had some good commentary On david, have you seen that channel by the way? In line stuff. You'd really like it. Uh, they did some Yeah, they had some some great insight. I thought on sylvaneth Getting in some of the nuances of the war scrolls and so on so those two got a Hit the season of war on the bingo card, of course sure Jordan played his first game The new battle tone against zack a lovely human being who is running an old school fire slayers list just four inch move all around Doing their best to compete against this new sylvaneth battle tone and what it loves to do But it was it was a good game. You can definitely see what the battle tone is capable of the new trees and then I wanted to shout out my friend zano Who has created this is the old I don't know if you ever saw this fence This was the ghb 2021 battle tactics dashboard. Yeah, it's my favorite product ever. It's amazing So he's created A 2022 version of this a little fancier. It's got a few additional details We've got a link to it. How much is he selling these things for too cheap? Whatever it's like 18 bucks or something Selling them for so yeah, it's just an amazing way to keep track of your battle tactics your command points victory points I can't recommend enough and he's a great guy who helped us out a lot with vault wars a few months back Oh, yeah events tommone you I'll go and give it away while I'm talking about it You guys will have one in the mail for you soon, buddy Uh-oh very nice Uh, well, that's awesome. Very cool stuff Uh, I love it and links for all of tyler's many many picks Down in the comments Oh shoot one more shout out to cubic shenanigans just for you vents Uh-oh, okay. I get one more shout out those guys hundredth episode And our good buddies dan and brendan they just finished up their hundredth episode. It's out there now I congrats boys Fantastic, I can't I can't second this not because brendan and dan are lovely human beings They are some of my favorite people, but unfortunately brendan is a well-known scaven hater. So he's off the list right there You're off the list Uh Our man that brendan once he's once I once I win Uh his hour In ranta thon or whatever once I donate the most money to make him Have to play an army or whatever that that I want for for for a tournament. I'm gonna force him to play a scaven army So that's that's that's a thing now Totally forgot about that. Yeah, mr. Mephisto is upcoming ranta thon on the 30th should be a good time We'll talk about it more in some coming weeks as we get closer Um All right, my pick of the week is very simple It's a video that's not out yet, but it will be out tomorrow And it's talking early scaven thoughts with coach and joel Uh, and joel is an awesome awesome awesome Scaven enthusiast much like myself I don't even have to have watched it to recommend it because you got joel. You got coach. What could go wrong? It's still are we are we magrath? Are we are we grand? Uh, well, it's we're americans. We're not supposed to know the difference between those two Yes, I understand and it's funny that you said it because I had to read out myself as I was about to answer it Like I had it in my head and then you maybe go wait a minute. Hold on. Do I not remember? Which one it actually is? Uh, joel graham Okay, there we go. I'm I'm I hate that I like both of them so much And that you made me doubt myself for a second because I was going to say it, but then I was like, wait, hold on Did I get it backwards in my head? Yeah, you're welcome Appreciate it. All right as we move from that into some hobby time Hey Welcome to hobby time if you haven't hit like yet. Why don't you do that? It's super easy Just click that little button hit that like button There's a lot more of you watching than if hit like yet and the fun is yet to come We're gonna have a good time hit like for trees and other fun stuff Uh hobby time Okay, david what are you working on man? What's on your what's on your table? What have you been painting? What have you been hobbying on? Best finished lady of vines Which meant that I needed to figure out how to incorporate metal into my color scheme because I saw them do that Thought that was cool. It worked out really well. Um went with Remember the name of it Um, one of those chaos leech and the blue it the bluish silver one not chaos. It was a space marine thing Um, anyway, basically blue silver overwashed with a thematic blue and basilicum gray It worked really well. So now I know how I'm going to paint my bugs, which are coming up next Nice Need a lot of them. Oh, yes, many bug writers. I believe right now that tom is fulfilling a commission for the Sylvanith player. I was describing that game against you Uh, since he didn't have his bugs were off on the commission table So I was being swarmed by puscoiled blightlords instead. That was that was the stand in since they're on like the same base Lori's been sharing that as a twitter of the old school wildwood trees or the citadel trees Yeah, on the proper. Yeah, I love it. Like, yeah It's great. We're in stands a lot. How many bugs do you got david? How many how many bugs we've bought so far? Well, so I had a bit of a snafu with double buying, uh, a battle tome. So for a while I think I had much money to buy bugs Uh, but I've only got three the planets eventually get 12 in total I go with six lancers and two times three seekers three every list i'm making i'm not ever taking more than that so It didn't be good cool I'm ready. Very nice. I'm prepared The dwarf I didn't even look at heroic recovery because I assumed it was the same as what they fixed it to But if they did print the old one, that's funny. I'll go look at my ghp We've only been using the new one since they changed it since it's the obvious way it should have always worked Um, so but that's very funny. I'll have to go look at that Uh, tyler Have you been painting anything? Uh I really was hoping I would be able to say yes this week. Mm-hmm. The yeah Yeah, we had a we had a chat the other night. You know the the real world's been In hitting me a little hard of late and it's got me off the hobby so I'm I need to snap out of it and Yeah, get back to fulfilling some of these Huge commitments that I made it's all right because you know what's going to center you tyler The first time you sit down and put some contrast paint on something I'm gonna tell you right now You're gonna be slap chopping the night away and you're not even gonna know You're just gonna be like, what if I what have I done? I've wasted so many years when I could have had this incredible meditative centering hobby process But that's all right. I hope you're right. Oh, I know I'm right. It's never too late It's never too late. Don't don't paint the lady of vines if you try to meditate Yeah She's got a lot of pokey bits a lot of sylvanas. Yeah, they keep helping you That being said they are an easy they are a really they are like a great paint to start out with Sylvanas on those armies is actually really good to paint when you're new Um Because they are like very friendly to things like contrast and dry rushing and all that kind of stuff They're slap choppable for sure Okay Uh my hobby time has been working on something not aos related, but I'm working on my next Uh giant robot So this is his again he is in many pieces because that's what you have to do with these these big these big boys Uh So this is the skeleton and then Here's his armor back here on my on my sheet And uh So he will be uh Another knight for my my house divine Army I guess I guess that's what it is now Um, so but this is all this is obviously for golden demon And so this is like a very slow laborious process Uh with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of very careful slow detail Uh that I am trying my best to record as much as I can but we'll see what happens um, okay So but it's going to take me another good solid week on this I might we might come to next week very easily and I'm still going to say the same thing that I'm working on this guy's day Because there's a lot many many hours ahead of him on this road many hours all right uh So with that gentlemen We've made good time Shall we get into the sylvaneth Let's do it. What's our mark? So like I haven't seen the last show Was the did you guys get over surely you got over three hours? I believe it was over three hours. Yes. Did you get under four hours? I don't remember off the top of my head. All right Let's see. It was three hours and 52 minutes and six seconds Okay. All right. That's our mark davin We'd like to stay under that if we could this is a smaller book that doesn't have 39 war scrolls So maybe maybe we could do less time. That would be great Okay, promise to not do my best I appreciate it. All right. So sylvaneth battle tome 2022 Uh, let's let's get amongst it. Here we go Tyler I just copy pasted all of the bullet points you had onto two slides But I did it and I kind of broke them up a little bit here Okay, okay. Excellent. Thank you for giving me credit. I appreciate that. Yeah, these are all tyler's thoughts He gets credit and blame So So tyler you you see you you said the following Here we go One of the best 3.0 books so far in terms of viable variety a list builders dream I'm gonna say I agree with that. I think this sits amongst the top of the pile In the 3.0 books right up there with nergal and and the other bests of the of the best in breed in 3.0 so far David what about yourself? Thank you. That's um, yeah, no That's absolutely right. Um, I could go into details on that, but we'll get into those later Okay, right on Uh Tyler's next point just about every war scroll. We'll see we'll see play competitively except for the warband the unrolled warband But like whatever who cares that doesn't count anyways I think there are a few exceptions there, which we will talk about um, but but I don't it's like I think that the vast majority of the scrolls with maybe one or two exceptions have Like have Lists they're a part of that have a reasonable path to victory. That's how I would say Yeah, and I was being pretty generous with that, you know having tendriads in a list as your qualifier for Every war scroll will she play competitively. Yeah, sure sure Absolutely. David is that one checking out with you think both the scrolls have some viability Yeah, no, um Situationally, there's there's one or two. I have some questions on with price point and stuff like that, but uh I level I agree with that. Okay, very good Uh, let's do the new to the next two in order because I think they're very very related Which is another primary Johnny book with some Timmy Especially an oak and brow and a broad toolbox, but at a price that forces tough choices and real trade-offs You know, which is which almost to be a Johnny book. You kind of have to have a lot of different synergistic Combo-rific plan based capabilities and options, but at the same time I think expensive does matter like you pay for that stuff and that actually Almost helps the Johnny-ness of it because you do have to make trade-offs and decide what your plan is So Was that that David really thinks that checking out with you? Absolutely. Um, I think it's both the strength and the weakness On account of I love it because it's everything. I always wanted draka's army to be back in like 2007 Um, it lets you be clever. It lets you play spirits But the problem is it forces you to be clever if you're not trying to be clever Maybe there's some lists in there which can do a linear play, but um I I think that's extremely Johnny Um, perfect for me But perhaps to a fault if you were getting into wargaming for the first time and you picked up the models because you love them I could see someone having a real challenge with that. Yeah, okay Very good All right Uh, this next one. I cannot agree with more I like the way woods are treated is better for both you and your opponent Completely agree. I love the fact that woods aren't as essential now Thank god, we finally did it folks. We finally got there the thing we suggested years ago Of you know, you can just make some of the terrain on the board overgrown They should have gone farther with that by the by but nonetheless. I'm still happy to see it is where it is Uh Like it's great. This is just great. This is pure win In your game so far has the have you felt the counterplay where your opponent can tag Three inches to shut off end point David answer have you have you have you gotten games in yet? What do you okay? I've gotten a couple in um Three with a new tome and one with the old tome right before it came out So like I did I started getting as many games that could with the old battle tome So I kind of like a really strong comparison Um, my experience has been if you're not clever with your placement Very easy to zone out Because you get these big blobs zoning out multiple trees But if you are clever with your placement, you can make it so that yeah, the enemy can zone it out You can oftentimes Force that to be a mistake opening them up to alpha strikes and stuff like that Um, so this it's been it's been a good balance if you can counterplay it But you can go too far into trying to counterplay it and I can play in this little on its hands I think it's in a pretty good place Yeah, I completely agree and I will say that as somebody like I said in my two games against it I was very much focused on on zoning out woods right where I could like stretching out to have enemies within within range Um, Mike says do I still have to burn a hundred dollars in terrain in order to play Sylvaneth? Uh, no though, I would write I think you basically need one box Like one box of trees maybe two if you want if you want to have just like some more options for summoning But one would probably do you and you you could have a perfectly good time with that Because you could set up like you're too small little you could set up your the small tip touchers and then use the big one as your As your Kind of outwards that you might place with like a as a single wood you're going to place with like a tree lord engine or something like that so Because you may occasionally want to summon one additional wood Um, but hey, it's so much better Um, it's not like if you can't get your trees down suddenly That's it and you have to have a ton of trees and you have to spam trees It's like no, that's not that's not the world anymore, which is which is really wonderful Uh, inevitably you can probably get the job done with two boxes Which is a lot better place than yeah much better than we've ever been in so I honestly think you There's there would be very little call in most places to ever go above two boxes now Um of the trees, um, just because you're usually just Yeah, you're usually just putting out a single piece after your initial I have found with three having three of the little tiny ones Oh, yeah, my big wood starting and then I found I've never summoned more than two Having two of the tiny ones has been useful But you wouldn't be hurt without it like you just have to say I don't have that so I'm not going to plan to have it and you'd be fine Um, I was just being cheeky right on Uh, you can dictate the flow of the of a game but need a plan for when you get punched in the face Tyler you want to talk about this one because you're you're an old school sylvanuth player going back to win Basically sylvanuth would try to win and set up right Yeah, so David and I we've been talking a lot of this week and this came up in some of our conversations You know the mic ties and everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face So we were talking about this in a number of contexts one is at the list building stage thinking about a list that has Two things a good amount of optionality as a baseline we can get into what we mean by that A number two the ability to essentially reposition redeploy particularly away from your initial launch pad is what we've always called it over the years, right? You have your setup wildwood traditionally in 2.0. You'd put your spikes from hive there You would then do your spikes from hive. You teleport. We're still playing that a little bit You need to be able to in some matchups reposition your bunker your launch pad You know iron jaws come burning in with lots of pigs I'll crush her too. You're not potentially reposition. So kind of that was the point the army has moved away from save stacking Thank god. It was insane Actually in in 2.0 is kind of sneaky broken Or maybe not broken might be a little too hard, but david knows what i'm talking about in particular It was pretty toxic. Yeah, so the army is appropriately more vulnerable than it used to be Too retent. So yeah, you can get punched in the face And I have a hard time recovering if you're not careful Yeah Oh, and there's a deception there. Oh, I'm sorry. So no, please go ahead Okay All right, excellent There's a deception there when you look at a lot of the world scrolls And you're like, oh curnauts and tree lords and draka and la la la all three up saves. So beautiful It's like, okay, but you don't have the stacking games of the storm cast And you don't have wounds. So yeah You're not going to get a bunch of goblin hits through but you're not as durable as you would think unless there's ways to make them durable on the 10 You're gonna you're breakable And so you get double cabbage into your face into your bunker If you didn't plan for that and have some screens to deal with that you're gonna die and you're gonna die fast I mean, I think the list you were the battle you mentioned was gaven kind of is Simplifying that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yeah So it you know, this continues a trend That we're seeing which I actually really like which is them understanding the need for tempo in the game where a lot of abilities And what they do and when they're valuable is very much key to your turn So on your turn, you feel like you're on the you're on the schnide, right? You're you're playing You know, but then off turn You don't have as many tools in your toolbox and it becomes the other The other player who's then stepping forward and really feeling like they're driving And it creates this back and forth tempo that I think is it feels really good. It doesn't make the game feel Going into around three and four like there's more of a game being played still Right because you're like, oh, I'm in a bad place and it turns to your turn You're like, okay. No, I've got some options here. I can do some stuff Right because suddenly you're that tool set comes back online You know night haunt very much like that doc have a lot of things like that. So yeah Okay, uh, and then your final point. Oh, sorry two two final points Pound for pound one of the best sets of 3.0 battle tone command traits to date I agree, but we'll talk about that more when we get into the command traits Uh and feels like a book you could play for years and continue to find rewarding also agree I think we all agree with that. I'm just happy to pull myself and us army out again. That's quite nice Uh, it was great to get a game with it. I haven't played it for years Hello dear Hey, Kathy Tyler says hi everybody says hi everybody say hi to Kathy, but hi in the comments. There you go Uh, what's who's the guy in the middle? That is david There's like a Yes, this is david. It's the first time on the show. So we're all we're all happy. Yes, exactly. Oh my god. It's david There you go Okay Very good It's not oh and jackson though. It's not. Well, we there's only one oh and jackson the world. So there you go That's a little bad david. Yeah We all pillow in comparison we all this that's not just you that's tyler. That's me. That's that's everybody She says that she says that when she meets any random person or any of my friends. She's like, oh, we're not oh and jackson. So that's not weird Okay, let's talk about some insights because you're some of your points tyler were insights Okay, so I thought we'd go that direction Similar to end enough player skill will have an outsized impact on results I'd not I'd not I'd not No, her name's will okay. Got it so Uh, I very much agree with this one but david i'm looking for your take on this one I think this is an extremely player skill dependent army I think in the hands of somebody who really knows how to utilize the tools Who is making like remembering all the optionality they have as we mentioned already and using it effectively This is an extremely potent force and hard to beat for somebody who's very new and is trying to like Who isn't really sure how to how to what what tool do you get out at what time? It's gonna be tougher. What do you think about that reid? um, yeah, so there's two concepts um skill floor is what I call it basically And it's I think it's pretty common idea and that's where most things skill ceiling is Then you have the skill ceiling is Way beyond that. Um, it's a brilliant book to express cleverness It's gonna be I can't Hate to say it because like it was my first army in war hammer I couldn't recommend someone new to wargaming pick up sylvanas I'd be like literally try anything else first because It's just gonna be so hard to win games if you don't know how to exploit that If you've done wargaming before like you're coming from 40k or you're coming from I don't know You could you could do it. Yeah, if you're not starting at zero, right? Yeah. Yeah No, I agree with that Obviously, David's maybe I was just events the exception of oakenbrow if you were on run the march of the ends Yeah, have a good old time Yeah, but I mean like Like it's like you're gonna you're gonna go three two two three at a tournament if you're a good player with that It's a fun list, but it's not gonna Yeah, yeah If you're trying to try to be competitive. Yeah for it. Yeah That being said, I think like the the oakenbrow thing will be fun on your home tables Even if you're not quite up to it yet because it's still it still has access to the tools and tricks of the army, of course It's just like it does what it does more simply. Yes Go ahead. You were going to say something when I interrupted you. I apologize Oh, I interrupted you. I was being rude. I'm sorry. No, no. Okay. Good Uh Strike and fade creates the strongest link to date between lore and the end game. I agree the there is no Ludo narrative distance there whatsoever the resemblitude on strike and fade is exactly what we've always read in the stories We'll talk about it when you get to the rules I want to actually save that For when we when we dig in on on the allegiance abilities here in a slide or two And then strike and fade also means the army had to become more expensive. I agree this kind that kind of trick it is You talk about skill ceiling like the ceiling on strike and fade and its proper usage is crazy It's crazy what it can do Okay Just some concerns about it from a negative play experience standpoint just the nature of it. Yeah in the hands of experience Good players. It's going to feel quite brutal at times Yeah, we can get into it later. Yeah in terms of matching the lore it's spot on. Yeah Yep, it's going to feel like a surgeon's knife. Just just right in, you know Slice and right through you Um, you already mentioned it, but they moved away. Thankfully from the prior books absurd amount of absurd amount of save stacking Good that being said, we also did improve some saves in some key places. So that's cool. Good. Thanks, which I which Really does pay some extreme dividends. So that is a very cool thing Uh, this is what I want you to dig in on here just a little bit Tyler This one's for you because this is very much a you point Sufficiently rewards the og ideal a five tool combined arms list with optionality. That is so wonky What is said right there? That is the inside ish baseball of inside baseball. So So explain what you mean there Tyler Absolutely. All right. So when the 2016 battle tome came out I would say a lot of us when we picked up that battle tome we wrote a list along these lines Beard of this may not mean anything to I'll kind of go into more detail explain the overall idea But it was spirit of dirt through trillard ancient branch, which As I like 10 two by 10 dryads and five tree revs or one by 10 dryads two by five tree revs Uh, one of six sides and two of three bows, right? Okay. So that list has all the tools ability magic shooting combat durability Was a beautiful play style that that was the the defining play style when that book came out Along with of course the bunkering, right? You plop your woods down on objectives and you hang out Oh, it yeah, it was yeah Now we should state it Did not do all of those exceptionally well It wasn't like it was banging on all the cylinders at like the best in breed It was just it did all five of them well enough Did the the sum Was, you know, greater than its parts or whatever, right? And that combined with the clever things like bunkering around your forests around objectives and things like that So it's hard to get in and pull you out of them That kind of thing made it very very tricky because it could as you said it could shoot It could take a hit it could give back a hit it could play in the magic phase It could do all this stuff, right? Yeah Yeah, if it was just a combined arm stream it kind of you know that ideal Of experiencing the full breadth of the spectrum of playing warhammer it it had that in spades Get away from that a little bit over the years, but we don't have to go into those details now Interestingly enough at least in my mind, I know David you know this A prominent I'd say pretty prominent archetype developed by Matthew Davies mouth mellow who did really well in the uk scene particularly with the 2.0 book about Better than anybody else in the world arguably He had a similar footprint with a lot of the list that he put together He didn't have quite as many tools, but you know it was like allereal six bows 355 tree revenants. So he had magic mobility Not as much durability necessarily had the war song bomb in there, but anyhow So that's just it that strikes me as an ideal on many levels And this book can very much do that Yeah, I agree I agree Basically, and if you want the the the long and short of what Tyler's describing there Think of the way games workshop thinks like cities armies are supposed to be played right Right like in their minds everybody's playing empire armies that are like oh, it's these counter strikes And you've got these troops up front and then archers and they shoot over and then they They skirmish out and then run back and there's artillery behind the lines and a monster You know general stuff. That's how they think it is. I mean, that's not how cities has ever played That's nonsense cities isn't like that. They didn't write that book Okay, but in their heads, that's what it looks like right officially zero people play that way but Cool cool concept. Sylvaneth has always been the one that actually did that better Um, by the way, I would argue that the other force That does this in the current World of 3.0 like of the especially of the new books That have been released Is Scaven Because they also like play magic play shooting have good hammers The anvil is the one part where they're they're weakest, but honestly That might be the weakness here too Like i'm not sure that either of these books have like incredibly neither these books have earthguard berserkers or something in them Okay, definitely. Yeah, right And they're still tough enough stuff like often with scaven is just bodies just raw wounds to tank it Here it's like a combination of wounds and saves a good saves But anyways, they they are an interesting match against each other because they do both want to play that like When the turns go back and forth you're both playing in every phase Right, right, right like um I've I've done scaven versus sylvaneth twice now since the new books came out and it's just like fighting teleporters Sure, right like they're making woods and jumping around and striking and fading I'm jumping in knoll holes and skitter leaping and you know, it's just like everybody's teleporting everybody's shooting Everybody's doing nonsense, right? Like it's just it's everybody's playing in all the phases. So I I I like that that match up very It's a very fun match up anyways Okay, um, you said places a healthy constraint maybe too healthy on the attractiveness of shooting. I think it's just right personally Yeah Shooting's expensive in this book, but it's good like it's high quality Shots in both cases of sort of your main shooters not that they're the only shooters So your two main your two main shooters you're going to see in lists that you think of a shooting units Feel to me like they're they're expensive, but priced accordingly for what you should be paying for high quality shooting Like high quality shooting should be expensive I don't care what you price unwar Raiders at Okay, like whatever You know as long as they're like shooting once and hitting on like fours and fours or blah blah blah that kind of thing It doesn't matter That's always going to be crap Right and and those shots are fine. They like it's cool But when you actually have like multi damage rend extreme range Mortal wound potential That stuff needs to be costed heavily Because it's still valuable in the list even costed expensively I mean look at how much Six wounds of long strikes were and how much everybody put them in their list immediately Right. Yeah, so like People were willing to pay that outrageous wounds to point ratio Because they could double tap them and Okay, David What do you think about the shooting in the book overall like at a high level? Do you think it's in the right place? I love it. Um I mean, I wouldn't Not so confident in my own opinion that I would say yes, it's right right on this hill But just speaking from personal experience, um the 12 inch range on Dureka I haven't had a chance to play Gossamids, but they're basically draka in unit form. Yeah, um has felt great Um, I can't teleport and reach out and kill a character in the backfield So that feels pretty balanced, but I can say this guy in particular screwed him I like a lot Um and curnoff bows feel like if you like them before you like them if you don't like them You don't like them before you still won't like them. They're they are still very much what they're doing Yep, um, I agree All right, you said a high level event tonight. I mean I've talked with both you guys about this before the show Generally, you have to think about if you're going to run six or more bows. They're going to be at base of Taxi each threes to hit twos to wound minus one run two damage How you probably don't want at least with the other variables that we have going on where the bows can be out of line of Sight, right? Some other shooters, you know, they can be hanging out in a wildwood not targetable unless The unit has 10 wounds or more or whatever So there's these other factors that go into play in terms of yeah impacting bows 30 inch range Starting with that and the incredible value of that range. So yeah, I don't think you would want bows to be much better They're going to feel expensive There's going to be games or it's going to feel like you're not getting sufficient ROI from that investment It's a big investment if you do those six bows and arch rev it's like 580 But anyway, yeah, generally it feels like it's about right. Otherwise, we would see a lot of shooting spam Which we've had in the past and it's not a lot of fun Yeah, it just it just doesn't make for a good actual experience like in the game And it doesn't make the army play like I hate when there just becomes the one way to play Right, and we don't want that. There's there should be costs. You're making some decision again when This does feel like what it wants you to do is play the combined arms Try to be active in every phase using all your abilities And that's how you achieve your path to victory by being smart by reacting by using the options you have Which I think is what makes this such a good book Final insight tree revs are the ideal veterans slash expert conquerors and you have an excellent Plus you have excellent non-veteran cheap choices. I completely agree with that Um tree revs are maybe the only auto take in the book Like I don't know that I would build a list without five tree revs Maybe 10 tree revs in it honestly They're they are the best galley vet. Maybe the best galley vet in the game. They're in there. They're in the conversation Um, they're incredible So and like two of them in an expert conquerors is not terrible. Not a bad choice Not at all Okay They have been mvp At the end of that that game I was I was we were talking about a game right beforehand at the end of that game Who was left alive on the table two years the tree revs Yeah Just couldn't get him couldn't catch him those little jerks I caught him once killed four of them He rallied the next turn and rolled three sixes They pod like the three of them pop back up and then they teleported away. I was like you little jerks you know Certainly plays I think the What is a take what's theirs grand strategy is going to be a popular choice for it will be and they are so hard to pick up Yep, I agree Okay, let's talk rules Let's get into it All right, we begin with the allegiance abilities Uh, by the way, I will say it again If you haven't hit like yet, you know, why don't you do so or subscribe or do those other fun things hit buttons? It's cool It makes me happy. It makes all of us happy and it helps other people find the channel, which is cool Okay, you got glades. Are there too many? Probably but here we are. We still live in this world Where suddenly we're apparently you need seven sub factions. So, okay Why not? Uh, but whatever places that we'll talk about them in a minute. Obviously places of power the rule We should all celebrate if I could unfurl a banner that says mission accomplished behind me I would do it here and one other place in the book. We're going to talk about okay, but Places of power pick three terrain features Uh, holy outside enemy territory those are now overgrown and Lots of things Are going to trigger off of that like that becomes a place you can go teleport to and lots of things will trigger off of overgrown Importantly though at the start of your hero phase, you also heal one Wound allocated to each friendly selvaneth unit, holy with the nine of an overgrown terrain or awakened wildwood in many But not all cases and we will point out where the differences are Overgrown your your overgrown terrain and your awakened wildwoods are going to be interchangeable. They're just both functioning the same many Not all We'll get there I actually like the little one wound heal. It seems Like it seems kind of irrelevant, but in the games i've been in i've been like that's just it's just neat It's just things ticking back up life. It's just useful your hero just kind of gets away You know he's wounded, but then it's like tick wound back heroic recovery tick tick a couple more wounds back It's just it just builds up It's something you got a lot of multi wound people in this army So just sitting around ticking wounds. It's not it's not bad and you're almost always going to be within nine inches of something That's what i'll say in my experience So I think we talked about this already, but this is a celebration, right? This is all good. We love this Fantastic, okay Uh, let's go to from the woodland depths because this is going to be a place of david I'm coming to you on the strike and fade. Okay, you're going to be the one talking about it here Lead in the discussion. All right, but here we go Walk the hidden paths. It it does what you think it does. It does what it says on the tin It's your it's your teleport that is to say like once per turn at the end of the movement phase You pick a selvaneth unit it's only within nine of either of these things and you go to one of those other things They just can't have anybody within three inches of them and you have to be nine inches away from the enemy So just like gnaw holes again very similar your teleport engine can be shut down by having an enemy just within three inches of it So even if you could set up Holy within Range like you know of the the the thing you're teleporting to And still be nine away from the enemy. You can't do it if the enemy's within three inches Okay, okay. So basically like it always was except now it also includes overgrown and it has that three inch limitation Which I really like I like it in the scaven thing. I like it here It makes it easy for people to shut things down You don't have to get in there and be like hold on. Let me measure all these little annoying Oh, wait, hold on. Is there a way I can let you get now like 10 nine inch sticks Setting them down and being like, oh, can I fit my my guy? What if what if I move this up? Okay, uh Worst part of playing the game was always is always that crap Was that yeah The more we can just jettison that nonsense and just be like now are you within three cool? It shuts off done great next next moving on fantastic All right, and then strike and fade once per turn in your combat phase immediately after a friendly silveneth unit immediately after That is wholly within nine inches of an overgrown or awakened wildwood has fought You can remove that unit field from the from the battlefield and set it up again Nine inches within nine inches of some other overgrown or awakened wildwood that again doesn't have anybody within three inches of it Okay, so once a turn you get to go in punch bounce no strike back Okay, that's the simple of it. Now David, give me your read on strike and fade. What what do you think about this ability? I think a lot of things. Um, I think that it's probably uh, the most defining rule in the battle tone right now I think everything else is great, but when it when it comes to the effect that has on gameplay um, so sort of this idea with um Hero phase shooting and double tap shooting and all the stuff It's this thing where you can put out the damage. It's completely non interactive And you can then be safely back in your lines. This is similar to that. Obviously unleash hell has interactions screens of interaction redeploys Can have interaction depending on how you got in there to charge if you teleported maybe not if you move maybe yeah um So it's accomplishing that similar strategic concept guerrilla war um It's doing so in a way to me feels a lot more balanced um And it forces you to do some pretty heavy considerations when you're doing your list building So I love draka Every time i'm sitting here playing i'm going to play a draka. I'm going to use her this way and put her in She automatically suddenly becomes and now she's the strike and fade component Yeah, so I lead her in there with the heart care berserkers. She will die right and then Finding out how am I going to use it? Where am I going to use it? Starts to then make your list building decisions for you. Um, and uh, so it's not just it doesn't just define Hey, how I play the game, but it also defines how you're from building your lists Agreed Now the important thing is to remember everyone It is only once per turn and it is only in your combat phase Because this is what I was talking about with that tempo feeling right so you can't do it in the enemy turn The enemy comes up jumps you You're getting jumped. That's what happens, right And the other thing i'll say about this is This is one of those points of optionality that will give you so many capabilities to just Do things you didn't necessarily expect you were going to need to do But put yourself in a position so for example Multiple times in the games that we that have been played by me so far and been been on our tables Strike and fade has been like this this exact thought has happened. Oh, I need to retreat this person Like they got charged the enemy turn They're in trouble The normal thing I would do is retreat them, right? They shouldn't be in this fight because they're going to lose But instead what the player would remember it was like wait, I don't have to retreat. It's my turn now This is my unit. I was going to fight first with anyways, so they just fight and leave Right, like strike and then then in both times this has happened the units then basically faded into a place like to fortify an objective or You know take an objective or Be in buffing range of something else. So like the first game when I ran this myself I had my lady of vines. She was in combat The combat had turned sour due to some bad roles and I was like not not against her like that my agent had just gotten His butt kicked by something he shouldn't have lost to and And I was like, all right fine. I attack with her. She's gone I bounced her back into the middle of my lines where her like ward save could now be protecting everything else Right and I'm in a good position going into the priority role Great Right, that's what you would that that kind of thing. There's so much capability there Uh in what this will allow you to do Um, especially in turns three four five Because people can like cover your overgrown and your woods and stuff in the early game But in the late game, there just isn't enough units and objectives between your teleporting tree revs and your strike and fade people Their objectives are just in play Right, like if they leave something open for even a second Um, like we played skitter strand against selvin ethan. It was just insane. It was insane Because it was just like everything nothing everything is open all right so Uh, yeah, that's by the way that has eight objectives. It's just like impossible to cover everything. So, okay All right, cool, uh verdant blessing. This is your spell that people know who that makes woods Um important things to note casting value of six range of 18 you get one awakened wildwood train feature Which could be one two or three pieces Um because some of them will dictate how many pieces you have to set up Some of them will do like small medium or large effectively. This one just says feature so you can do any of those Um, you have to set it up more than three inches away from from everything just just everything Just just everything Which is the correct answer by the way. So like you can't put it on objectives You can't put it next to it. You can't just sit a goat sit down in the spells other models other train other woods whatever My only sad thing about this is I wish this also had an option to just make something overgrown That it could be a spell that just made a thing overgrown. That feels like the biggest miss Amen um, I I would have taken it at like a value of of like it could have been like Six to make a woods or seven, but then you can make something overgrown Like it could have been a setting like that or something where it's a little bit harder That would have still been fine You know just like I really do wish that you could have just made things overgrown. So Hey, not the end of the world I'm changed on this. It used to be holy within 24. So I'm just for what is where I point that out Yeah, holy within 18 now. Yep Little bit shorter range, but still very doable, especially with something we're going to discuss here Uh, in just a moment in just a moment Okay Seasons of war. This is a new thing We've talked around this a lot in the lore like obviously when we all model our sylvaneth armies Everybody's like this is my autumn sylvaneth my winter sylvaneth Spring summer everybody picks a season because everybody loves that right how many times have you seen somebody do this in their modeling, right? Well, now you can do it for real and it has some kind of consequence So after you picked your sylvaneth army, you have to pick which season applies To your army from the list below and record on your roster. So like your grand strat. This is part of your army list So we got four of them here. I'll go through them and then we'll talk about them the burgeoning Which is friendly sylvaneth units that didn't charge and are within nine of the woods get a six up ward the reaping which is your whole all your your uh You're from the woodland depths and places of power traits, which are both set at nine inches Which is like your strike and fade and you walk the depths and healing and all that crap That becomes 12 inches instead of nine inches. So it gives you a bigger bubble The dwindling uh in your hero phase you can reroll one casting unbinding And dispelling roll so long as the wizards within nine inches of an overgrown or wood And then the ever dusk you subtract three, you know winter obviously you subtract three and just now you're dealing with a six inch bubble For those things, but you get sixes or double taps. So any six to hit in melee In melee becomes two hits Okay David your experience with these what do you think what season do you like where you live in what season are you in? Like all of them. Okay for different reasons. All right hit me with it. So sort of Sticky got real quick. Um, I had been saying for Months in private conversations that I wanted them to take the He'd the spirit song ability of the treeline agent and make it wargrove dependent I got this instead. I could not be happier. Sure. Um and uh, so Right out the bat, um, I kind of like ever dusk not from a I'm gonna play this perspective, but from a How do we make this really high difficulty to play army more accessible saying hey Give up some of your faction abilities. Get yourselves some exploding sixes. It's just a nice press a to win Like when let's have that I never play that but I like it when they have that because it makes it accessible um Then from there, uh the reaping Hey, I'm looking at if I'm For I'm sort of to answer the question where I might get my extra tree Be a treeline ancient could be da corn could be leading into casting or it could be I'm just going to run the reaping Not worry about it. Yeah, I just have to be fast. I'm gonna be smashy Yep, so it answers a question which I might have my loose building Um, the burgeoning is obviously a six of bored on when I didn't charge aka on not my turn Um, yeah, so if I'm not trying to do magic for me, that's the baseline burgeoning Then the dwindling is obviously if I'm saying I need to get the spite swarm hive. I want to run heartwood Um, well, that's gonna make me that's gonna make me, um That wargrove the dwindling not wargrove season Um, so from my perspective They all bring a answer to certain questions you're trying to ask in your list and they bring it in different ways Gives you a lot of optionality I really like that. Yeah, I agree. And yes, uh Cameron in the chat and this is absolutely true I should have been a little more specific The reaping just adds range that you can teleport from not to because it modifies the first part of the thing You can pick friendly silvaneth units with those abilities. You still have to end up with a nine blah blah blah whatever whatever Okay, cool. But it but it does extend your bubble significantly for that Like you you're gonna be within your bubble for a lot of that stuff Um, okay Uh Tyler, what about you? Where you living? Oh So I think the dwindling will be the most popular choice. We're gonna see that a whole lot mini cogs free mini cogs Yep cogs for life and Do you guys think this would have been too strong had it been The start of the game you decide as opposed to at the list stage? Yes Why Because you would just tulle around and tailor to what you knew you were facing like it would just Like if you knew you weren't facing somebody that could like have a lot of board presence Or wasn't going to pull you apart or had a lot of magic and you could poop woods everywhere Right, then you can just easily shift into ever dusk So, you know, you'll always have the sixth sense optionality and you lean heavy into the offense Right, if you know, you're going to push somebody that you where you need the magical pressure You'll just go dwindling right if you if you're going to have board presence where you know Exactly, you just said where you're not going to be able to lay down woods Right, then you just switch over to the reaping Like it would just create this weird situation where you're always option optimally Done, right? Yeah, and and like I get it I don't think it would like break the game or break the book or whatever But I actually like that you have to make some kind of choice here If it had been the other direction, I wouldn't be complaining, but I think this is the right way on balance Okay, right on David. Do you have a Yeah, I mean, obviously I would love it to be a yeah, no, let me optimize it and Fluffy perspective daughters of kind changes the ballerang goes on I didn't change with their tides and having us have a little bit of change of just a flexibility It feel good for us Um, I think vince raises a good point that it might not feel good for the opponent Sure. Yeah, there's enough maybe bad feel for the opponent in this book that maybe we don't need that too Yeah, that's uh, it's very fair point. Yeah Now that makes a lot of sense Yeah, uh, fantastic really really like these dwindling. Yeah highly popular I think the reaping could be a sneaky competitive choice Yeah, as you get more games in and see the benefit of that extended range I'd say I really want to push ever dusk. It's the one I haven't tried yet Or seen yet And but I in my experience thus far like staying within six hasn't actually been that hard Just because of like how much you can kind of get out there And the number of times I've like rolled a spirit of dirthu and gotten multiple sixes and just been like could have been more hits Could have been more hits every time I'm just like It's could have been more hits It's all it's all I think when I when that guy's swinging a sword around like if I go ever dusk I'm immediately putting dirthu in the list that that's happening Then I'll never roll sixes again and be sad, but hey whatever And of course we Always had well 2.0. We were doing whole earth and six You know, it was generally fine. So it's not yeah, it's not unusual. Like it's it's completely manageable, right? Yeah Okay Command traits you mentioned this earlier. This is look. There's a tight pack gw What happened there guys what happened? What's going on? You're right in compelling command traits here Uh I I don't know what to do with this. Um, I'd say there's four on this list that are like I'm interested with another one that could be good depending on like the world you you lived in or the the meta Right and then one that I'm just like, yeah, whatever um All right, narled warrior So this is your old put it stick it on the tree lord ancient now. He's ethereal great There we go ethereal tree lord ancient they're fantastic. That's what it does ignore modifiers positive and negative Lord of sprites in the combat phase subtract one from the attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by enemy units to a Minimum of one that finish a pilot move within three of this general until the end of that phase fantastic So they don't have to be attacking the general And they it's just and it's the whole unit if they just finish any pile in within three Minus one attack if any model in the unit finishes a pilot move within three Well, it's your minus one attack Yeah, finish a pilot move. So the wording on that Is that just simply saying when you make a activation Like at the end of your pile in Okay If you if the if any of the models in the unit have ended that have finished that pile in now within three inches That whole unit one dude toes in to 2.9 inches at the end of his pile in fighting some other thing Right Minus one attack What I was getting at meaning that It's not Optional you cannot avoid it if you within three inches like if you do not move right, correct Yeah, if he just puts himself up in the middle like you let if this is on your if this is on your ancient and he's behind uh You know like He's behind kernauth and to charge they they have to get within half an inch of the the kernauth and hence within Three inches of the dude. That's it. They're stuck because they can't get farther away Right, so they're going to finish that even if they don't move They have now finished that move that that pile in Within three inches and so minus one attack, right? Uh So it's fun. It's good ability. I mean there's many many multi attacking things in the game and just subtracting sapping one Out of potentially multiple units is pretty good Uh, and then the war singer I think the underrated one here, but I actually really like it a lot Um If this general is on the battlefield at the start of the movement phase add three inches to the move characteristic A friendly sylvaneth units that start to move wholly within 12 of this general until the end of that phase um The I really like this. I really like this especially in something like oakenbrow where you got a bunch of dumb five inch idiots walking around And it's something they move eight and it's like, okay. I'm playing ogres now. I can do this Um Uh gen s and bar tech. I'm assuming it still does even if you opt not to pile Um, so like I'm assuming you have finished that Option within three inches. So I'm assuming it still triggers. Yeah, that's what I was getting at David you might have looked into that. Did you look into the the core rolls? Yeah, I did actually Um, I don't know for sure what it is But the text in 12.2 for pylon is you can Move a model making a pylon move up to three inches Not you must right sure. You don't have to pile in we know that we know you can skip it, right? And that's the way I would read it is Sorry, no, no, I think you're reading the same way and please go ahead Yeah, so if you chose to skip your pile in um, then It wouldn't get hit by the minus one to attacks, but then you also wouldn't be piling in It's just sort of debuffing yourself to keep from getting a debuff Yeah Very very point. Yeah, exactly like if you if you don't Pile in at all Okay, like if you move it all Right, then that's it. You did it. You've now triggered into it So if you decide to like be under slobby wildpipers Fart noises, right and not pile in so a bunch of your models aren't attacking you're probably taking the same penalty So yes, that's exactly how I'm reading it I mean, it's worth an FAQ probably in just to say like hey if I just completely skip my pile into I stand But I but I am within three inches. Do I suffer the penalty? Um, but there you go Yeah all right, uh David you lit up when I talked about war singer. I take it you're a war singer fan like myself Oh, so it's so weird, right? Like I love it um, and I think it's probably um Any underdog I think probably actually the most powerful trait on here in in just Wins you win in the movement phase. This thing buffs the movement phase like from my perspective game theory. That's perfect I almost never take it because um, I bias is to want to get really, um Insulated from bad roles units because I'm very unlucky. So I like gnarled warrior. Sure. Um, like just Get so excited by thinking about what war singer enables Um, it just makes me happy deep deep inside. So, um Yeah, I don't really have anything intelligent to say about it other than Go fast hit hard Yeah, like when your lady of mind suddenly is moving like 11 inches like that's such a crazy Move value getting your current off up to eight inch moves is such a different feel to that unit versus clomping around at five inches like it just It really does change the game a lot You're a very mobile army already in your teleports, but teleports teleports and you're an end up nine away Right and lacking a spite swarm on a unit. It's like, well, I hope you're good at rolling Nines or a girl battle major some nonsense like that Um, which I would just love if we just been to that forever. Um, but hey, here we are Yeah, guys, I think it's one of the more important additions that they've made as a command trait because as you've intimated It puts on the table a play style that was not there previously for the most part Unless you ran a non-glade in 2.0, right? David, we had a lot of conversations about running war singer outside of a glade But you didn't want to lose all the benefits of a glade Uh, that was very very prominent among competitive sum of players that conversation, but now it's built in Yeah, I think this will be a popular choice over time It may not necessarily start out as the most popular because of one in particular we're about to get into Yeah, it's it's incredible protection as well, of course against A mage a magic, you know spelled on meta if you're trying to go 5-0 to tournament But you're worried about seraphon zange luminev even corn Shutting down your wood thing and stuff like that. Yeah Yeah, where at least this is a known value, right? You're not. Yeah So and I should say some of the faster things in this book will just shoot off across the board now Wait under this effect like they get real fast So yes, uh, but let's talk about its main competition And that's your silvin out the wizard hero only in the aspects of renewal Which is of course spell singer, uh, the one that I think you're right We're going to see this a lot. We're going to see this a lot Comboed with the the fall Uh Whatever the one I remember the name of it is but the fall. Yeah the dwindling the dwindling. Thank you the mini cogs with mini cogs When this general attempts to cast a spell before making the casting role You can pick one friendly awakened wildwood does have to be A wildwood cannot be overgrown. This is one of those places where that delta matters Okay, if you do so and the spell is successfully cast a not unbound You must measure the range and visibility for that spell from the friendly awakened wildwood Okay, let's make this real for everybody. We've got mini cogs already in the re-roll to cast Now let's get mini portal actually better portal like this is way better portal. This is super portal Okay So let's assume that our hero pack contains the war song Fluid player mr. Tutes Okay, and a tree lord ancient. Let's just say Okay, the tree lord ancient he can just pop a woods out anywhere. He doesn't have a limited range anymore He can just be like pop pop. There's a small woods. It's simple. He has to heed the normal restrictions of three inches, of course But he can just put that thing anywhere that piece anywhere. He could back. He could put it in the opposite back corner Behind the entire enemy army. That would be perfectly legal Now we've got our war singer mr. Tutes is the general and he's back corner boarded So he's completely out of all unbind range for anybody who isn't a frog who isn't a mystical frog okay And he's gonna be like all right now guess what boys Do do do do do tootin through them woods, right? Maybe he's got an arcane tome. So he's like a triple caster now He's within range of your own home woods. So he's plus one to cast So he's like re-rolling one of those casts with a plus one. He's tooting He's doing things. He's summoning another maybe he's getting out the sprites warm hive super easily and efficiently Whatever this dude becomes magic artillery battery. Just like back bunkered completely safe far from everything else And yet his spells are super portal. They're just emanating out on the board You know, like he can just shoot out whatever he needs to you need to get that tree song We'll talk about in just a moment a very impressive spell that is very dangerous Way out deep in the board. Sure. He can do that. No problem. You don't have to worry about that So Yeah, this is a very potent ability. This is like you can you can between The season and the command trait you can already dupe two endless spells effectively into your army without paying the points Uh, I was speaking of endless spells vents. There is a potential fat question here They just designate spell that I did not say spells or endless spells. Yeah Are we yeah, there there's some debate. I'm not sure what the answer is. David and I have talked about it I think he Has a case when it comes to the core rules language. I hate it Yeah, it's not Right, right. I don't think we should be allowed to do endless spells through this thing That feels like a little much and probably a terrible idea Yeah, it does appear that anyway that we need a fact on this Uh, yeah, let me answer something in the chat that's coming up Why do with the war song when the branch which has the same spell with a lower casting cost? Uh, because he has a bonus to cast and is a multicaster and is just a better caster and does it like it's good Uh, and uh as well. Yes any spell they cast so when you make him a triple caster Through like an arcane tome. Let's say that was his artifact. He can just woods woods woods He can just be pumping everything out of any woods Yes Or out of one would sorry. Yeah um I tend to agree with you tyler. You can't bring endless spells out of here, but It's an FAQ question. I can also very much see the argument for is which david are you coming down the side of yes, you can Uh, I hate it, but um I can try to find the rules, but it's whatever it basically an endless spell when you're summoning it There's a spell you cast to summon that endless spell use the word spell My sense is rules is intended every time i've seen it for both. It always says both This doesn't say both which makes me think rules is intended. It doesn't work that way I'm never going to play it Fires an endless spell unless an FAQ says simply I can do it but um I think rules is written versus rules is intended I think there's a better argument that it does it That it doesn't I just had totally fair I this is definitely an FAQer and what this look if you can Okay, if you can put an endless spell out of it then Congratulations, sylvanath. I welcome you to the purple sun crew. Welcome to team purple Where in every list will have a tree lord ancient and a war song revenant And the war song revenant will backboard on the re-roll castable plus one cast uh purple sun Because that's what's gonna happen. You're gonna set that woods up three inches from the front of their line Or whatever as close as you can get it to that relative back of their line Wherever there wherever their good meat is you're gonna get out the purple sun Float it through their line accidentally win the game sometimes when you've been a bunch of their heroes on a one because purple sun Is stupid and should be changed immediately Like it is a garbage spell uh And Then it'll just sit there in the middle of their line giving neg one to save and then in comes alpha strike team Of like six kernoff scythe catapulted forward by a spiteswarm hive who are now neg for rend and just being like This is so easy. Everything here just dies um So that's what's gonna happen. It's only neg five rent Sure, but yeah, yeah get the tree song going to that way you can make it neg five rend like there's there's your spells Right there. It's like three spells boom sun Hive tree song done and dusted neg five rend Uh Scythe boys coming in doing some work Uh kill everything they touch It doesn't have an exceptional ward save um That would be as three spells like that is the list my problem with it is if you can put it in the spells I do not know why you would build a different list right now Okay, yeah, that will be the best list Because you will against anybody except seraphon right You will resolve that spell You will resolve those spells quite easily you will Like catapult 500 points into their line and it will crush the crap out of their army And you will have some games where you just accidentally win Because the purple sun just showed up in the middle of their lines and you tagged every hero they have And you rolled two ones and it was like oops 600 point of your army dropped dead and then the sights came in and lifted another amount of points And and by the way, it's gonna flip to your hero phase and I hope I didn't purple sun off your Your dude who could actually dispel this thing because if I did Guess what here we go again, baby Just a couple of points to um, actually you yeah mentioned two endless spells Yeah, you get somebody else cast the stupid thing. You've got a tree already just sitting right there He'll cast the hive there you go. Yeah, so someone has cast spice for you. Yeah, even if it's not purple sun there's plenty of other Very strong endless spells that you know like the Skull root alone that you could have a position to immediately hit multiple units with d6 mortal wounds from skull root popping out Through an awakened wild wolf that set up just more than three inches from the enemy lines through your nature Like that's cute, but you ain't paying for a vengeful skull when purple sun exists I mean unless you're just like unless you're I mean you're damaged in the brain. Okay, like you're gonna pay Because eventually it's like the same amount of points Right, right. I mean even if purple sun has changed. Yeah, it's it's just a terrible idea Yeah, to allow endless spells through this thing. So anyway So like My that's my point like why I why I don't want spell singer to allow endless spells to cast out of it Is because if it is I really do think you've suddenly got one Crystalline list and all the beauty of the internal balance and multi path to victory this book shuts off And because like even if you didn't want to alpha strike into their line Even if you weren't going to catapult six sides forward or something like that It's still super powerful To just be able to do that to get that thing rolling around in their line with a caster that can't be revisited on right like It's just so good um Yeah, and uh By the way, bar tech the percentage chance is actually higher than that You said since purple sun moves twice per round if you go first you can actually have a 30 percent Chance to remove something round one before they can escape It's better than that because remember purple sun makes that check for everything within three inches So it's actually just a case of how many things are within three inches of your sun So like if you can get four of their heroes near it Then you have four bites at the apple of rolling a one So it's 16 percent times, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever And then if it goes again and you do the same thing again Now you have eight rolls Anyone been something it's way more than at that point you're way over a 30 chance Um So at any rate. Yeah sun is stupid. Okay. Cool beans. Uh, the other two are kind of nothing Um, but radiant spirit is I guess depending on the purple sun meta and how much it's important radiant spirit might be good counterplay It gives you a four ups a spell ignore. So spells are endless bills On this one, Ben said does explicitly call out spells or endless spells. So which You know related back to our conversation we just had right Right, which is something like that ain't nothing It ain't nothing Um Yeah, but good good command rates Absolutely Like they're functional as you said David I think you really made the point and Tyler made both of you kind of said it Is Okay, got it Bartek. You met per unit. Yes. I agree. Um like These open up Play what I really like about two of these Is I do feel maybe even three of them is that they do open up actual like paths to victory play style list building concepts right and That's great. That's fantastic Um, I love it. So yeah Maybe everybody will take radiant spirit in the purple sun meta. I don't know. Maybe that even opens up five I mean if we saw a magic and endless spells and everything really becoming a major part of the meta sun or not That the value of that command trait will skyrocket and suddenly you really do have five in play Okay, play boom boom artifacts You've got a gladius. You're going to give it to derthu if you pick this cool It gives you d3 extra attacks the start of the combat phase. This is just derthu's weapon That's what it is. He's the only person you're going to give this to That's what it does if you want to make a spirit of derthu Do some stuff. This is one of your choices next Crown of fell bowers at the start of the combat phase pick one in a unit within six Enches add one to wound rolls for attacks made by a friendly sylvanath units that target that unit This is actually my favorite freaking love this thing. I like this on derthu way more than I like the d3 attacks I want four attacks that resolve I don't need I don't need Five to seven attacks on derthu at six damage. I need four attacks that resolve Because 24 damage will get me there That's what I want Okay And this one makes that resolve because it puts them on twos to wound against that unit But it doesn't have to be derthu obviously could be anybody and then the c to rebirth the first time the bear is slain before Moving them from play Roll a die on a one the bear is slain on a two plus you heal d3 wounds and it negates the rest, but they're still stuck there So cool Okay Two out of three of those will definitely see play Yeah Sorry Hold on. I just want to answer something in the comments Assistant ref says just a note, but endless spells go wild outside 30 inches So if you did cast from out of the unbind range through the wood You'd need to move it back within 30 or your opponent gets to move it on their turn. Okay um Like Yes, that is true Uh, that is absolutely true. It's very easy for you to reposition your guy Who cast it so you could do that and then just float him back whenever you need to But at the same time, I'm not sure that I really care If I have it set directly in the middle of their lines and it can only go eight inches It still might be in a place where it can just literally trigger so At any rate, um, go ahead Um, so crown of fell bowers, um one of the few ways to get an easy plus one to wound onto Nightland's writers Which can very easily in heart would make them twos and twos against pick a unit Yep, I like it Yeah, I I really like the crown of fell bowers a lot like it's it's what I used Uh When in my list and just had a grand old time with it derp through did not derp through for me Uh, so there you go. That's what I was looking for Uh, tyler, what's your take? Yeah, no, I think you guys know that yeah crown of fell bowers We'll see some play in oak and brow I think definitely a spider rider lancers. It's a nice option Or yeah, maybe uh with some power pair comboing With derp through having it to try to get more leverage more return Just the the one to three attacks as you said, you know, even I didn't thought a lot about your point vents of Is that pure equation of one to three attacks versus the plus one wound on derp through No other considerations just that alone You think so you think there's a there's a pretty there's a better case for crown I do because I read d3 is one first off. Sure Like that's every rule I've ever made where the d3 seems to be one So like if I choose between plus one attack on a single profile, right? Because that's what we're talking about his sword and I'll take the I'll take the plus one to wound on four attacks over the plus one attack Every day of the week It's that's easy A number of lists that they've and I've been writing and prepped for the show. We've been looking at power pair comboing or even triple combo trio comboing That damage output in particular spot And we'll get into that later when we get into the list, but yeah, no, that's that's really interesting I know my bias. I'll be I'll be honest about it. My bias has definitely been towards the green wood gladiets Unless I'm running a different unit But that's a I haven't actually done the math on it. Um, we should yeah, that's probably a good thing to do Yeah, I mean what I like about the crown is the synergistic capability like you mentioned It's it's you know for this other unit of spite writers coming in or whatever, but that's just it right if I have Like this army often gets to pick its fights Right, like you you you very much often can control the pace of combat Especially in your turn of like you who's fighting who is often something you're going to be able to To sort of decide right and so you multi-charging a unit is not uncommon or impossible Right, so you get your suddenly you're reaping huge benefits out of the plus one to wound when it's applying to multiple units Attacking into this one target whereas the gladius is just it's always the same thing. It's it's like it's d3 attacks on dirthew That's not bad But there's a lot more ceiling on the crown That's what I would say I'd agree with that Sure We'll talk about that when we get to Atherl said curious about the fell bower redundancy on on Kernos near an arch revenant doesn't that de-incentivize the item? I think it's just a question of your list That's like we'll talk about when we get to kernos in the arch revenue It's a question of what what list direction are you going in right? I mean, I would still say probably the most powerful or the most commonly chosen artifact out of sylvanith It's going to be arcane tomes. So, you know, I'm not sure we're We're probably still there Okay, uh, then we've got our our relics. I don't know why these aren't on the same page Like I guess we just really wanted to use this super cool piece of artwork, but hey, whatever So then we have our spell cast the items Acorn it makes a wood cool That's what it does. Um, again, I wish it just had the option to pick an existing piece of terrain and make it overgrown It doesn't seem like that'd be broken. Why not that'd be cool Um, so fine, but anyways, it makes a wood it does what it says on the tin And it is at the start of your hero phase. So it can be used to trigger other hero phase related shenanigans around woods But it is wholly within 12 inches of the bearer. So it's quite quite close Uh luminous lamp Yeah, sir lunettes not luminous. Sorry lunettes lamp. I apologize uh Skip, okay. Um, you're not gonna pick this thing. This is not ever a pick It used to be plus two than bind as well It should have still been plus two and bind and it would have been an interesting artifact Sure, not sure why they took that away. Yeah, like I guess if endless spells are just absolutely everywhere Okay, and dispelling them really becomes the name of the game Then Sure, maybe this thing has a purpose, but that feels like a That feels like a real reach And then the vesperal gem This thing first of all first of all How dare you both of you? How dare you I've always had this fence How dare you steal this scaven item? Okay You didn't think I would notice this green gem Okay, that you just happened this green magic rock Okay No, I know it doesn't say it's actually green but it's green. We know it. Okay And What does it do? Yes, so this spell Once returning your hero phase before the bear attempts to cast a spell from the lower of the deep wood You can just auto cast it and it cannot be unbound Um after the effect of the spell has been resolved roll a die on a one The bear suffers d3 mortal wounds. What a hilarious scaveny downside to something Like yeah, we all know there's Sylvanath taking the risk roll route for their stuff, but anyways It's fight. It's it's it's a good item Um And certainly it could make some of the very high casting cost spells interesting again or casting value. Sorry Spells interesting again Since they can be auto casting can't be unbound, but it is only the lore of the deep wood not endless spells Not making the woods That's not in the deep wood Like those spells we're about to flip to those six spells. That's what you can do All right David, what's your take on our wizard wizard magic items here? Uh, yeah, I love the vesperal gem. I mean casting can't be unbound Um tree song, which we'll get to on the next page. It seems pretty great. Yep There's probably a pretty hilarious play with taking a trailer ancient Making a ethereal giving the vesperal gem giving him the throne of vines and binding a crown spine to him Then check I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it's hilarious. Yeah Just these two these two nearly unbreakable things just marching up the middle of the board. Yeah yeah Um, and of course the acorn It's this similar question. I mentioned you're looking at how you're going to get your woods How you're going to play with that keeping this a solution truly ancient solution acorns a solution So it just it brings some solutions, which I like And again, lunis lamp. Uh, okay right I mean, I agree with assistant ref in the comments who said that it is a short range and it can sometimes be hard to set up depending on the board you're on or where you're positioned or Stuff like that right because it is Uh At the start of your hero phase, you know, your people can't get out of the way Like you got to set up your caster kind of knowing if you're wanting to do a turn one Your caster's got to be in the right place to do this And so on and so forth. So yeah, okay Cool. Yeah, to me, there's a lot of considerations with the acorn. It used to be Not played that much because of the reasons that we're discussing I'm more curious about it now Or a variety of reasons Such as to what degree could you hold on to it? And then look to drop it in round two how how often could you reliably execute that, you know, have it on a war singer All right a war song keep your war song alive And drop that in round two when it's a little more upfield The holy within nine helps, you know Where we're or potentially holy within 12 in terms of a footprint setup that helps with acorn as well So yeah that there's one of the main factors and 2.0 was Events when we did our review show We were emphasizing dreadwood as the pretty obvious competitive choice. It became the competitive I mean that was obvious to a lot of us. Everybody was saying that So played a lot of games without dreadwood and it quickly became apparent how critical just Necessary the ancient was because of the auto wildwood, right particularly in a magic spelldom era that we were in 2020 late 2019 early 2020 To what degree is that maybe entering again right now by maybe answering again Yeah, so to what degree is that still the case? Do you have to run an ancient to have that wood or do you have enough other options? Including potentially acorn with some of these variables to get the job done sufficiently Yeah, I mean I'll say you know one of my games I was running thank well against sylvaneth And once I got thankful upfield where like he could cover all the unbinds I needed, you know for like the key stuff I mean it stopped like suddenly the sylvaneth player was not resolving spells anymore, right because I'm unbinding on a plus three um, so still Yeah, emphasizes the value of sylvaneth as opposed to maybe a lot of other armies Being low drop. I mean we've always had that as an army as affection as david knows You know a strong case for us to have that optionality to go first when we need to to get our magic off Except against frogs that are unbinding with plus two board wise But you know to be outside of techless unbind etc. Yeah, yeah, I have some thoughts on that We can talk about them in the list building section. I agree. Let's get into it in the lists We are going to do some lists at the end of the show. So stay tuned Like for lists. Okay spell doors. I'm not going to cover all this to me Like tree song is sort of the the name of the game, but I'm not saying the rest are bad I'm not at all, but I just don't want to read six spells out Tree song I am going to read is last book. Yeah with two notable changes, which we'll focus in on here Which is throne of vines and tree song, okay So throne first off very different spell now way different spell now throne of vines the spell that has a casting value of nine Yikes yikes on bikes in a book that you know does not have a huge amount of bonuses to cast But again the gem like if you have gem then throne of vines becomes interesting. I suppose If successfully cast at the end of each phase Until the start of your next hero phase you can heal one wound allocated to the caster you get a hot This is like the first implementation in in warhammer of a true heal over time Um, and it's pretty strong too. Like it's a good hot. That's a lot of healing Every phase that ticks bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing like you know Ticking a lot of phases So okay fine And then tree song tree song as a spell is casting value of seven and a range of 16 And again with all of these think about like When it comes to things with range like with tree song you need to think about You spell singing it out of woods as well, right? um And so if successfully cast pick one friendly awakened wildwood within range of the caster here we are again only awakened wild woods Not Overgrown and this is the one that really kills me because this is why people will still have to have some trees They summon it's because of this spell because they'll want this spell sure Uh until the start of your next hero phase improve the rend characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly sylvanth units By one while they are wholly within nine inches of that awakened wildwood Whoo, plus one to rend baby Uh is strong is strong Uh because that same woods could end up being your your Your launch pad target that your current auth emerged from and then charge with their plus three and blah blah blah blah So there we go Most of the others are pretty similar-ish Uh others changed Do others change vents from a six to five? Oh god got got the key five. Yeah, so that Opens up double vortex play or even triple vortex play if you really want to go ham in your list building where you could do What we talked about earlier like the ancient plus You don't necessarily need arcane tome, but say you got arcane tomes the war song three spells Dwellers below do dwellers and the unleashed warm spites from the war song through a spell singer Like a spell portal for your branch witch have the branch which send unleashed spites through the spell portal with a 27 inch Threat range itself So yeah, you can have some pretty crazy aoe damage if you really lean into it Yep, I will also state we should just very quickly talk about Virtuous harmony. It is a useful spell It is another interesting thing that could come out of the gem Because you pick it's got a range of 18 inches cast value of seven Just a slightly tough cast but again the gem can make it happen And you pick a unit wholly within range and you return one slain model to that unit if you pick dry adds tree revs or spite Revenge you get d3 back the use of this is obviously popping back on Kernoth or your bug people especially if you don't have remnants around who are doing the same thing But you know you can you can actually generate quite a bit of like model return out of this spell And something like the the revenants the bug writer revenants, which we'll talk about later, which is pretty potent You know six kernels are hard to lift Being able to pop things back into those units is pretty Pretty good. Pretty good. It turns out All right, did I miss anything with the spells gentlemen? No, that that's Thing tree song is amazing. I always take it and never not take it. Yeah, it's so good It's real good It's real good. Okay Glades We'll run through these kind of quickly because Whatever we'll talk about it was we want to and then I want to kind of where you're I'm gonna just run through them fast these four and the other three and then we'll jump back and say where are we leaning What what's our glade and why do we like it? Does that sound good? We'll each do a round of that Okay, oak and brow tree lord battle line and all your big tree people never chart I mean, that's not actually what the rules say, but that is what the rules are Okay, because you you have the amount of wounds You you're treated as suffering half as suffering half the amount of wounds you actually have Because they're 14 wound models and the way that rounding and this stuff works here Even when you round up Or when you're out because you round up basically unless you have 13 wounds on You use your top profile So if you're one wound from death You have to go down to the the next profile slot But if you're at one wound from death and it ticks to your turn and you're near woods Hey, you heal back to 12 and you're back to your full profile If you loved earth you always having six damage And you want to run big tree people oak and brow is the place for you This is the timmy choice. It will not surprise you a little spoiler. This is my favorite one Uh Nauru, this is still the castie castie one Uh once per turn when you're making a casting roll or unbinding roll for a nauru wizard Holy within nine of an overgrown or wildwood You can roll 3d6 instead of 2d6 and then remove one and use that as your casting or unbinding roll So Cool good Um, I should state this is still just casting and unbinding. This did not get dispelling Which is relevant for things like killing endless spells But obviously if you're leading into the magic strat This is the place to be um Heartwood your kernauth battle line After deployment, but before the first battle round begins you get three different enemy units Plus one to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly heartwood units that target those units all of your people Now obviously you're and that's both range and melee Quite potent for those three units Uh, so but obviously you're going to have heavy kernauth. This is this is an easy way to put your shooters down to hit on threes Um, or if you pick a hero to ignore something like uh to basically counter lookouts, sir Something like that. So you stay on fours all sorts of different things like that. So you can counters It's a round roar get the round roar. It's a round roar for your units So you're always going to be uh that two's to hit for a lot of your key pieces. Yep Barring any negatives absolutely um Yes, that is a good point. Jen said also naru can work on your unique casting your unique characters Which is a good point. Um, it does let you really help power out the lady of vine spell. I agree with that completely That's a that's a great point gen Uh iron bark Skip pass pass this literally we should probably just uh We should probably just go ahead and get rid of that one if it doesn't if they don't like get dwarves for some reason That was the fun thing about them Just like random dwarves hanging out in the woods Uh winter leaf enemy units within three inches of a friendly winter leaf. This this one's It's wild and it's wild that it probably won't get played very much and i'm happy about that all right Because it's just like this is like npe the sub faction. Here we go Enemy units within three inches of winter leaf units cannot retreat In addition, if you're also ever dusk, which of course that would be the fun thing to do right is to be like the winter winter With on the on the winter winter group Uh then uh If you're also an ever dusk then Those same units that are within three of your people Cannot be removed from the battlefield for through an effect that would allow them to be set up again later in the battle Yes, that's right. That's super annoying teleport stopping thing that exists in the awful battle plan You can now just stick on all of your units So nobody can teleport away from you. What a great time What a great time that'll be Uh brutal brutal Braving lesion but better Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly that's such a good way to put it Dreadwood gives you spite rev battle line and the cool thing about this is Once per battle you can walk the hidden paths, which is your your move between Trees twice, but one of them has to be a spite rev and then once per game you can strike and fade Twice, but one of them has to be a spite rev in it Super cool for people who want to run like spite swarms. This is this. I mean, hello Welcome to your viable option. So that's great And then our revs are quite good now. So yeah, that's definitely viable. Yeah. Yeah agreed. Totally agree Uh harvest boon. This is the one I have the most problem with because this is probably too good Um, but here we are. Um, it gives you the flying bug battle line I didn't want to type out spite rider lancer and whatever whatever seeker revenants or whatever they're called It's the bugs. It's the new flying bugs of your battle line After deployment, but before the first battle round begins You can move each friendly one of these spider right spite rider lancers and revenant seekers Up to 12 inches Good lord I would state these are flying 12 slash 14 inch move units on their own So, uh Wow, that's a lot of pregame move Like take that nurgle air force. You got nothing Uh Eight inches and eight inches is for chumps chumps Uh 12 and 12 way better. Yeah, I mean We'll talk about the lancers when we get there and whether or not they can play the role of Eels or blight lords or other things that have classically taken this kind of a fly alpha strike role Um, I would say the answer is Probably not, but we'll talk about it Okay, hopefully not. Yeah Hopefully not. Yes is the answer We can all hope Because I don't want to see harvest boon become the only thing anybody plays. That would be really Yeah All right Tyler, what's your pick? What's your sub faction? What's your take? Why do you like it? What are you going for? Oh, so High level life. I mean, I think hardwood and all road will see the most play Especially early on. I think hardwood is the easy answer personally Oh having a hard time getting away from the all route I think you can build a competitive combined arms list When you go up against spelldowns, you've still got enough play in the other You know areas of the toolbox You can compete against croak or techless or whatever So, yeah, probably still no route for me personally But i'm highly intrigued by winterleaf Because it reminds me of old school tree lord ancient Ignoring minus one rend moon so the hidden ways artifact once per game deploying four inches away hit that charge In the battalion whose name i'm forgetting Where you could not retire you could retrieve house household Uh household battalion. There you go. Good pool. Vince venturella. Love it. Yep household battalion. It was it won me so many games Uh, particularly at nash con. I think I did it to tom And it's just amazing. Yeah, so it I think some competitive players are going to find some play in winterleaf Yep, absolutely. All right David Yeah, so obviously I think there's a lot of competitive play in winterleaf. I'm never gonna do it myself not because it's not great but because Um, it's not me I like my opponents to have fun. Um, what's your sub faction screw you. I'm sorry. What no, no That's the sub faction I chose. It's just screw you. It gives me nothing I get nothing from it. No bonuses are rendered or offered to my army in any way All I do is make your game worse And if you run it with tree lords, it's so much worse. Yes Yes, exactly. No retreat. Oh, man. No teleporting. No surrender. No piling in nothing You will sit there and you will get punched in the face Oh, wow. Yeah, um, no, I'm with I'm with tyler on um in my list building You have a hard time getting away from null root because that's bite swarm hive is such a good answer. Um But uh If if it were not for bounty hunter meta It would be all in undreadwood Any hunter meta takes a lot of team off that for me. Yep And I am definitely gonna run a moot list at some point in oakenbrow. That just looks fun to me Let me tell you what it's super fun It's so much fun I ran an oakenbrow With uh lady of vines tree lord ancient spirit of dirthu three tree lords five tree revs Done and dusted. That's somewhere close to 2000 points less than and I was like I feel completely happy with this I am ready to rock and roll. Let's do this Uh, anyways, so it's fun. Yeah, oakenbrow is my pick. I love tree lord's battle line I love that you get actually have dirthu on his six damage sword like the whole game It feels so different. He's just a monster running around just chopping everything to bits He was the only guy had I could rely on Um, I will point out just a really let's just really drive home winter leaf here Because I do have to wonder if there won't be some winter leaf play Because you're right like with any kind of tree lord getting in the mix Especially a regular tree lord who can pull both these tricks at once, but it could be like a combo of a couple different tree lords Keep in mind. They also have their monstrous rampage, which can make you fight last on a very low number Uh, so now you're stealing from uh, old slanesh So good choice there It is it is completely reasonable that in fighting the enemy units you cannot retreat You cannot pile in You cannot teleport away And you always and you very often I would say always you very frequently fight last like boy What a great time this is guy like That feels yeah, I mean it's hard, right? It's it's hard to not imagine There's not some alpha pinning play Low drop list where you're outside of them bind range. You execute your battle mage your sprites from hive You get your boys in they Yeah, you they both can go in because they're not limited by walking in and paths. They've got spear paths built in Yeah, totally man. Yeah, and and then you you're forced to chew through them, which Some armies with mortal wounds will be able to do it quickly, but some armies won't it could take a little time to to get through them Yeah, and and by that time you've won the game theoretically in many cases, right? So, you know because you're just too up on your objective since you've but you've theoretically bunkered them in So, okay, cool. Ba boom war scrolls War scrolls. All right, let's get into them war scrolls Okay, okay Uh pictured here a war scroll you will very rarely see on the table. Okay, so it was a dryad by the way Uh a laurel the ever queen eight hundred and forty points She is still Rocking those amazing Thighs, I've got to say she has the best leg game in all of Uh in all of aos. I'm not trying to like I'm not trying to say anything here. I'm just saying like I mad respect Okay, she does not skip leg day and I I respect that She's got them gains. Um, she is still a lot of what she did before Okay, and damage triple caster knows all the spells in the laurel the deepwood can fly Um, let's talk about some slight changes and also one really really big change Okay, she's still summon stuff. She still summons a unit all those kind of things. She can still run and shoot blah blah blah Okay Life bloom in your hero phase she heals 2d6 wounds cool. So she heals a lot Right. I mean 2d6 is not a small amount of healing if you don't kill her And it ticks to your hero phase. She heals it used to take a pulse Healing is what you're gonna say, right? Yeah, d3 for everybody else. Yeah within 30. So Regarding that d3 within 30, it's functionally just been moved to affection rule We get it with or without her for being close to woods, which is everybody gets one Yeah, that's true, which again d3s are just one. So it's basically the same rule Sure Okay In addition Once per battle At the end of your hero phase If this unit has been destroyed You can roll a dice and add the number of the current battle round to the roll On a six plus you can set up this unit on the battlefield Holy within 12 inches of an overgrown terrain feature Or friendly awakened wildwood more than nine inches from all enemy units and with eight wounds allocated to it Okay, now This is at the end of your hero phase. So this is after her heal. So when she comes back, she doesn't immediately heal It's also past the time when you can heroic recovery because that's the start of your hero phase She can't cast spells so she can't cast like regrowth on herself to heal a d3 wounds because we're in the end of the hero phase step Okay, so she's just add eight wounds now in the future if she roll if you roll into a double turn Or blah blah blah anything like that, you know, it flips to the enemy hero phase you can goes to the enemy turn You can heroic recovery or there just of course as always But here's the really relevant part about this rule here we go When you first read this You think okay. Well, I've got to get a six plus if she dies in round one because I add the current battle round That means I've got a roll of five to bring her back But no no no No, no no that is not how this rule works Once she's destroyed you just have this floating trigger You can choose To activate at the end of your hero phase. So let's say She goes ham and dies in round one. Let's just you you throw this crazy lady forward She's all for the war aspect. She gets in there. She kills some stuff and then she gets Blown down on the strike back Okay cool Round two You do nothing Round three You do nothing round four Most of your armies now dead a lot of their armies dead Round four. You're like i'ma roll this down End of my hero phase two up boom 840 point model back on the table, baby. Welcome back The goddess is back in round four That's a late game swing. I would say returning at 840 point quite survivable model Back to the table so That can happen This is the other time I would unfurl the mission accomplished banner because we had said she should do this exact thing And she does David, what do you think about life bloom and its new incarnation? Does this like is a larial playable for the first time ever? um I think if you like to larial Love her You're like a larial and you weren't running her. It's still kind of the same thing Um, the reason why if this is an amazing role. I love it. Um, but she's still a three up 16 We've lost the stacks Very easy to remove sure sure Yep, that's totally fair She is not an impossible thing to kill in any way shape or form. She has no word saved still So it's like it is what it is Yeah, that's totally fair I love this return rule so much Um I would the other thing that's worth noting quickly here on her and then taylor I'm coming to you on your take on a larial is she has this right of life Which is once for battle at the start of your hero phase You can say a larial will give voice to a verse of the right of life If you do so until the end of that turn All terrain features on the battlefield that are not already considered by you to be overgrown Are now considered by you to be overgrown, which is cool I mean that's obviously like suddenly everything is now a beacon It's going to be almost basically it becomes impossible for your opponent to sort of zone you out of moving around kind of however you want so Cool, all right I think she's an intriguing puzzle to try and figure out competitively try to make her work at a tournament is not and Certainly not an obvious take. I mean she's So many points that if you run into a matchup where she's taken off the board early She's such a big investment You may not have enough left to compete in rounds two and three Where you get her back in round four that you've got enough left to to do much of anything at that point in the game It's a number of games where it's just are you you may be forced to take the risk on a three up in round three You know, you don't want to and you felt that Actually game over at that point Yeah, she does do more damage Anamorphosis is excellent The fact that an all route right is 36 pick the two highest can be for her We dwindling can be for her Helps turn her magic on in a way, you know, we've been complaining forever about her lack of bonuses to cast bonuses unbind Sort of fixes that with her She Lady of vines is going to be very tough to get into a list with her I think I don't really see that as all that viable of a power pairing in terms of What you're left with with a list And then you're having to lean into of course null route for the 3d6 even get a shot At getting that lady of vines spell off in the first place to try to make a layer more survivable So anyway, it's just a lot of these little things that I don't I don't think she's going to get there for most players, but she's certainly Compelling to try to figure out in terms of tournament play Yeah I agree. Yeah, I think she is still slightly high on the points She's maybe one of the scrolls. I would say a slightly high 840s a lot That's a lot and it feels like she could be 800 high 700s And I would feel like slightly better about it Then maybe you could fit her in with the lady of vines in a more reasonable way You know, at least that might be something you're still paying a lot through the nose for that like Boy, not a lot of army on the backside of that, but still Um at any rate, I think she's actually interesting. She's you know It's cool Like it's a cool thing Yeah, she's I get it why they put her so high because being able to pop your god model back on the table is it's something Like that is really something And I and one she can have a six of board and burgeoning which is nice for her. Yeah, that is right. Um and um So I said, oh, she's only three if she lifted pretty easily Obviously, I'm thinking about things like long strikes double tapping bow snakes That kind of thing But if you don't have a good answer for three up 16 wood Striking fading monstrosity going in killing unit teleporting back healing itself going in kill. I mean She's interesting and if you can't answer her she's gonna be Really hard to deal with. Yeah play. Um so One thing is what we have mentioned is that I mean when we get into sprites from hive sprites from hive has a Changed effect in your opponent's Row phase that you can that is, you know off your turn when you're going to be always doing the plus three to move in charge Or whatever. Yeah plus three move in charge Reduces rent by one. So you strike and fade a lateral back right within range of Spites from hive now it reduces all rent coming into her So that takes away the boats next rent that reduces long strikes, etc That could be quite meaningful in terms of helping her survive The shooting output that might be coming her way in particular. So yeah, yeah Okay the lady of vines or Minilarial Me mini mini larial because that's clearly what she is 325 points. I point out both. These are also totems now The lady of vines the war master, but the but a larial is not which is kind of a weird thing to me Really? Well, yeah, that's I don't know But anyways, yes, the lady of vines the war master 10 wounds on a three up save So she has the worst number of wounds But that's okay. She's still good. I still love her She has double cast wizard She's what we reviewed before. I mean like she this scroll came out with the box. She's great. I really really really like her a lot Um, she's like little mini okay in a fight if she needs to she doesn't want to be fighting But she's like she's okay. She can do a little bit of work Um, she can summon some dryads on a two up Which is just useful for deck chair sitting in the background like hey, hey Hold that thing be exist Uh-huh, right. It's just like cool. Great nice And obviously share, you know, she has an absolutely amazing spell Uh, which is a five up ward bubble So great. She was good before she's super good now. She's absolutely worth 325 points. I love her So any thoughts on her Yeah, no, I agree completely. Um, the first thing I ran was uh, the lady of vines because I was like, well, he the spirit song is gone. It's not gone. It's seasons now, but I wanted that aura and I've been playing without karnath's and that in a os Holder the the the the before this book for a while Um, so it was very intuitive for what I was already doing Um, I was able to pretty easily move around exactly where I needed that aura and with narwurt. I never missed it once Yeah Was great She's really good beautiful model too. I might add like, I mean, I know that's not really what we're discussing But like I really really like this model like she was so much fun to paint um Like This is just such a win for me. I wish this is how they would make a lot I wish a lot of armies would get these kinds of heroes like this kind of 250 to 350 point range Is such a nice range for heroes They can give them like good abilities that they feel impactful and useful without being like super big god centerpiece or Crap stupid combat hero that doesn't do anything, right? Like it's just a nice place for a hero to be She's very useful in your army. She does stuff. It's great. Like, yeah She will be in many lists. There you go. I don't know what else to say Um, I would point out also. Oh, go ahead Well, it's good. I do like that. She's Wounds now. I know a number of people are gonna run her and she'll get shut off the board And that'll be that and maybe they won't run her again. I mean, there's certainly that risk Sure That there are some ways to offset that again Drop count is going to be higher in this meta all as equal at least as we are at the start of it Bounding hunters in particular is going to increase the drop count So you have some play around that right where you can go very low drop double battle reg David and I've been talking about that Null root gets your cast up get the five up board up I mean, you've got some ways you got some play around it to where it's just not automatically She's going to die. It also has a real good impact. I think you know A healthy impact from the list building standpoint the fact that Drycha and her are both 10 wounds or more, which means that you're not easily getting your second. Yeah, your your extra enhancement Has a meaningful healthy balance from list building standpoint 100% like this This army actually finds things like warlord and command entourage a little bit tricky To to truly get into just because of the nature of the sub commanders versus the commanders in this army. Yeah yep agreed I would also point out she's bravery 10. It's like a small thing, but she's actually really easy to heal herself A lot of the other heroes aren't bravery 10. So Drycha Um, Drycha is Drycha. She acts like Drycha. David, you're the Drycha fan. I mean, she was good before she's still good I don't know what else to do. I think she's much better now Okay The reason is is she used to have fours in her profile. Oh, yeah, you could never get down to twos and twos um And just the turn she goes in best day ever all at attack 20 swings. They're on tree song I just shot you 10 times for some mortal wounds and now i'm just gonna blow you up and It's good. Um I I mean basically Drycha's dry cut. She does what she does. She no longer snipes characters with her range reduction She eviscerates units instead. Yep Yep, I agree 335 points. I think she's worth it. She's a she is a machine You're absolutely right on the threes and threes. It's such a good point. Like yeah, she's You know She is a great you mentioned it at the top, but it's worth repeating here She is a great strike and fade plan, right? Like this is this is going to be my like all else equal This is my strike and fade unit and I think when you're building a list you need to think about like What is my? Assuming nothing else is happening. What's my strike and fade unit? I want to go for right and and she's a great one to happen that Yes Okay, that's me. She's one of the true hot picks in this book. She's going to see a lot of play The damage output's incredible. She's a great David and I hit upon how fantastic of a power pair She is what spirit of derthu Where those coup could really hold it down on a particular part of the board That's not, you know, so have you could have Derthu get hit with again battle mage spite storm hive Don't even necessarily need right should it go in She gets the teleport right because derthu gets a free teleport. It's a dry to teleports. She shoots Derthu goes in does damage strikes and fade back to dry to buy the wood Now you've got those two hanging out together. She can do unleash hell He can do the stomp three plus to make them fight last You don't want to be fighting a last against derthu and reica There's just a number of yeah, like plays tricks combos like that You can execute with those two in particular on a side of the board while you're still going to have your army left Function elsewhere. Yeah, I think I think she's really amazing One other small thing I'll point out just to talk about the difference between these two since like this and the lady of Vines are like similar wounded similar saving Similar feeling like level heroes like about 10 wounds and three of save so on Is just a very small note the lady of vines is not a monster She is a totem And a war master so like for a million reasons. She has an 18 inch command range, but she is not a monster She's still just counting as two for for capture Uh, whereas draka obviously There she is whereas draka obviously is a monster Um, but is not a totem So it does have like these are it's just these small things that are worth mentioning Sometimes five can matter sometimes now it might matter nothing at all because you might be like I have five and the other opponent's like cool I have 180 and it's like well whatever It's also worth knowing draka is a war master. So if you have draka as a lady of vines, she has a winner Yes Thank you triple jennies. Oh, hey, what's gonna be excited triple jennies triple jennies Okay, uh War song revenant Uh, this guy's finally at a points value that I think I'm I'm Guys at a points value I think I'm comfortable with I've taken me a little while to get comfortable with this guy I really hate this guy. Okay Like I think this is my most hated hero in sylvanuth So eight inch move beef lies wizard. He cast two spells blah blah blah He gets plus one to cast a spell and unbind when he's near a woods That's he's the he's the cast bonus in your army. Congratulations. This is it. You got here okay He has a little bravery manipulation thing still which like will not often matter And then obviously he has his he has his spell Which is his unleash uh swarm spights casting by of seven and range of nine inches Unless He's a spell singer then it's a casting method. It's a range of just the board near your woods And uh He if successfully cast you will a number of dice equal to the casting roll for each each Enemy unit within range of the caster for each five plus that enemy unit suffers one more to wound. Hey, guess what? turns out You could have a lot of units within nine inches of a wood Turns out yeah, could be many. It's a big old footprint Uh, so yeah, I mean this dude's great because he is you know built in double caster already I already mentioned the list earlier with uh, you know giving him the tome and Backboarding him and spell singing him. So yeah David is there anything I missed more on the war song revenant. I mean he's he's good Yeah, he's great. Um a lot of sylvanas players were in uh shock that he lost his access to the entire lore, which is a great change Um, he was carrying the entire battle to him on his back and he needed to be that good to do it The battle to him is good Can he can retire he can he can stop doing that now? Um, I still take him a lot. I think he's a great character. Um, I don't feel uh I don't feel bad taking him anymore, which is a good thing. Yeah He is properly pointed with the correct set of abilities for where he is now I like him. I wish I liked his model slightly better, but I hate to bug rack on his back. So not the end with that one Okay Arch revenant Hey, what's up homie? What's up, buddy? You're the you're you're a big dog. We love I love that. We all love though. They are trevenant. This guy's fun Again, he flies six wounds four up save He no longer has this little free bug die thing But he's got six wounds Instead now he can set his little defensive stance and in combat gain a four upward during that phase Or he can adopt an aggressive stance, which he'll never do and get plus one attack Like if this guy's in combat, he's going defensive pretty much all the time uh and uh Funny story charge this guy with three sensor bears Thought for sure. I was like, uh, I can I can kill this this six win moron with three sensor bears Did not end that way Did not in fact go that way Uh So, yeah, I mean he's eat the important part to this dude is if you're if you're going with like a heartwood kernauth strategy You almost automatically are going to bring this guy in I think he can be quite you worth it Even if there's almost no even maybe no kernauth in your army Like yes, his champion of the kernauth has no function then But he still has a plus one to attack command ability, which is really good And he's still a cheap sub commander who's useful like he's quite mobile. He can ward in combat like Yeah sub commander Keep for savannah. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because he's still 120 points. Yeah Yes Yeah, he's good. Let's go take. Yeah the Out of mage branch which arch revenant will be the three in particular That you're looking to take hold on. I apologize everyone if I was misgendering the arch rep Is this a girl? Is the arch revenant a girl? Oh, yes, actually it is. I believe. Oh, I'm so sorry everybody That's just me not being familiar enough with the sculpt. I don't own an arch rep for myself another army She I am very sorry That is that is completely on my bad. I did not own the model and did not realize that it was a female model. So She yes, uh, please continue challenge Yeah, just that again and getting into if you want an extra enhancement If you have let's say, I mean you've got a number of directions you can go in but essentially I think for a lot of us you're looking at four options picked to right for your two sub commanders to get warlord or command entourage War song battle mage Trev or branch witch. I'd be correct. I mean, that'd be another conversation David If you've looked at other ally options, I can't get past the battle mage as my first choice, right? To try to fill out that command entourage or uh, or warlord, but yeah, no, it's it's fantastic I do still worry about this whole 580 point combo, right was one by six bows. You hit him with all that attack cool Threes and twos of the arch revenant nearby. What happens if that arch revenant dies? Okay, now you're at threes and threes on that 460 point investment And it's feel like you're gonna be back in 2.0 land where bows are gonna feel terrible Particularly you're gonna get to look out starting now. They're fours and threes We can talk about that more in the list building. I played that list Um, there's definitely play after the arch revenant dies because it forces the opponent to commit and you can kind of play that Um, unless of course, they're a gunline. That's different. Um, he also can hide of course in woods You know, he's he's got the right wound profile. So he can exactly Probably it's probably mainly aoe damage or yeah Like a bestilladon double tapping to to try to get him off the board because they've got 10 wins or more But yeah, all is equal. He should be pretty survivable, but Great model more scroll Uh, somebody asked why I don't have one of these because it came out in the time when I Had no interest in playing myself enough because it was still because both it was a bad army That was unfun to play and you had to have like a million million woods, which I do not own Oh, uh, so there you go Uh, okay Spirit of derthu, what's up big boy? Uh, here's my dog The important part to discuss here Is he's no longer d3 attacks when he's near 370 points He's no longer d3 attacks when he's near woods or overgrown now It's plus one so he goes from three attacks with his big sword to four, which is enough That's enough. It's fine It's fine for a six damage neg two brand sword potentially neg three with three song, which yes. Yes, please Uh, it's fine. The key is to get this guy to twos and twos. That's what you're going for That's what you want. That's the that's the dream This is the dream Okay, and it's pretty easy to do We'll talk here about ground shaker quickly Uh, this is the slinestial inability. I don't know how y'all got away with this This was too toxic of an effect for our army to have but apparently you can just put it on every one of your More on tree people just every one of these idiots gets this thing Uh, they have a new monsters rampage Obviously only one guy can do it only one of the people can do it because it is a monsters rampage But on a three up they pick an enemy unit just like a normal monsters rampage within three inches and Stompy stomp and on a three up the strike last effect applies to them Um, obviously the potent combo here is when you happen as you mentioned you got like two monsters in combat Uh with them and you're combining like roar and strike last. It's just like well Right If both of those go off you dead Yep It's yeah Go ahead David So I've gotten so lucky on ground shaker. I haven't missed it once It's just playing against it You have to assume that you're going to get it every the seven up players going to get it every time right Just that threat is so powerful. Yeah, it makes them very hard to charge Uh, yes, I am aware gen that you that the regular tree lords had it on a Four up but the difference between the old bad tree lord having it on a four up when nobody ran many tree lords let alone one Okay, and all of the good trees having it now and yes, it's only one unit, but it's on a three up I'm just saying a three up fights last on migrator demons made everybody lose their freaking mind For an entire season of warhammer. So any I'm not bitter. I'm not a bitter root. I'm fine Okay, uh, no, I mean, it's it's super good. And yes, what it means is that like I watched hewo play a game on tts Uh against an oak and brow army and he was running like all gluttons Just, you know huge packs of gluttons, okay And he charged in so it was oak and brow a bunch of tree lords and stuff right He charges in with like 12 gluttons tags two tree or two or three tree lords or whatever Like maybe a dirthu and a tree lord or I don't remember some number of big trees, right? And immediately boom gets stomped And then all of them just wail on him and he's down to like One ogre out of that 12 pack like they cut that just leave their way through all but one ogre one ogre remained at the end of the fight And I was like, oh god. Yeah, because he probably had him in bounty hunters as well Uh, yeah, the regular tree lords. Yeah. Yeah, the tree lords. Yeah, and I'm guessing the gluttons are battle lines. So yeah Wow Yeah, they're battle line is four wounds there. That's that's that magical combination, baby. So yeah, it was just like Just ogre guts against the wall Anyways, yeah spear to dother is cool. I mean, I can't see a list where you run multiple of him But certainly I can see many lists where you have one Yeah, he'll be pretty common come on choice. Yeah and uh Significant change in addition to the not d3 but just plus one. It's also nine inches up from eight which is Exponentially blah blah blah. Yep. Yep, right on What are we talking about? The raffle guardian prox on nine instead of eight Which is so what prox on? The plus raffle guardian ability. Oh plus one attack. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Yep Yeah, they smoothed out his burden blast. Yeah, like The four attacks are fine because everything has been smoothed out, right? The burden blasts been smoothed out the talons have been improved the talons are three damage Those talons are big now like they're a big deal to all these guys attack profiles You'll be like, okay. I did okay. Oh wait the talons You just got somebody with those things Yeah, they're for real. That's not just a cute modeling choice anymore I mean twos and twos ain't bad on on neg two rend three damage that that's not a bad attack profile I'll take it even with two attacks that ain't that ain't too shabby and any I should say all of the Tree lords basically have the massive impaling talents now the two attacks on twos twos neg two three damage They all have Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. David say. Yeah guys to me. It's it's easily top five the most impactful elements of this book probably a top three Grand shaker is so significant in terms of how this army will function list building And again, just if you're going against that you have to respect you have to assume It's going to get hit every time It's impacts your gameplay. Yep. Oh, yeah No Yes, he does have the new wounds chart that all the monsters have so he's already more resistant to dropping a six damage Just because he moved to the 3.0 wound chart, but also again in oak and brow. He'll never drop his six damage Which is awesome. So I'm sorry. David go ahead Oh, no, it's okay. Um seconds of lag make for interruptions. Am I right? Um, no, I was just gonna say, um Uh, he's a pretty good target with that impaling talent for an arch revenant plus one attack If you have a random in heartwood. So he's plus one hit already That fell bowers. He's plus one to wound already now. He's got five swings and three swings It could be pretty nice Oh my heart, okay All right, good stuff tree lord ancient Uh, he's a tree lord ancient He can also stomp. He's still a single cast wizard. Um, the key with him as I mentioned like the big deal with him He's 360 points The big deal with him is that once per battle in your hero phase if this unit's on the battlefield You can set up one awakened wildwood terrain feature consisting of one scenery piece So a small would uh more than three inches from blah blah blah Right Um, which is amazing because there's no range to that. That's the point. He can throw it Back corner behind their army in front of them to the side left this or over here grab that objective this thing Whatever you need to do. It's just an incredibly useful thing. Um, he is much more expensive now David, what's your take on the tree lord ancient? I think he's still completely worth of 360 points and you'll see him In lists, but what's your read? Absolutely He's absolutely worth. Um, it's one of those things we're talking about in your balance thing You have good rules and sometimes good rules are just good at any points I mean, obviously not at a thousand points, but within reason Is the summon trees is a good at any points ability um, it's There's a question I mentioned before how am I going to play with my trees? How am I going to set them up? How I'm going to move is the most straightforward simple easy to play answer to that doesn't really have a lot of counterplay Where you're going to alpha it off just drop it in the beginning of the game He dies later. It doesn't matter. He did what he needed to do. Yep Um Basically the point when I play him I do this a lot in the previous book After he does what I need him to do. I'll just use him as a zoning piece. Yeah, you want to kill derthub. He's in the way Yep Yeah, he's still a tough piece to remove if they're not spraying him with mortal wounds because again He's still a 14 wound dude on a three up save like he's he's still relatively tough Um, yes, he is still a single caster brent and and and again, that's fine. Not everybody needs to be a freaking double caster I'd love it honestly if there were less double casters in the game, but here we are He's fine as a single caster as a big as a big tough monster I disagree with rob's take on this completely by the way arcane tome exists If you want to be a double caster that bad just give him a book Okay You really need him to overlap with the war song I mean if you were a double caster, he would just be a worse version of that like a war song What are you doing to me right now? We talked about this man. It's switching sides. This is not acceptable different roles Okay, I'm switching sides or totally switching sides. We talked about how Horrific it is. It's an affront to all three players that this Force goal is still a one cast one unbind wizard This is wrong. Let's see. Yeah I guess so the question is is Just think at 360 it just feels fair with that ability, you know, like would I like it if you were a double caster? Okay, sure, but then like I'll be honest if you were a double caster, I would literally never take the war song revenant I just wouldn't do it Well, that hurts me Hurts me. Sorry. He's very he's very attractive at at 360 Which is surprising to say right like I would not necessarily expect to say that on the first pass to this book I think it's going to be a common view that a lot of people are going to hate this guy's point value I think he's way over cost of these crap I'll just look at as we just talked about it awaken wildwood and look at ground shaker You said zoning screening the utility you can get placing ground shaker where you need to next to other units Combined with the wildwood alone. That's extraordinary value with the piece that's going to be hot You hold that thing up your sleeve your your wild woods You don't have to draw you just have to drop it in round one always now you can round two round three It's a threat to your opponent because he's going to be pretty hard to take off the board for a lot of things And you're going to have a lot of other priorities that they're not necessarily going to want to shoot at an ancient That's probably not doing a whole lot of combat anyway. Yeah, so yeah Yeah, and I really love this guy with the lady of vines Especially if you if you're in a position where you can get the five up board And then the two of them are just best friends Because then he is quite hard to remove if he's running around in the five up ward bubble It's like okay. Well, this dude's gonna stick so Basic tree lord a battle line obviously an oak and brow still 14 wins still a three up save His big sweeping blows now or you know five attacks three threes neg one two damage and then he's got the Talons Got them claws Still on the twos twos twos twos three damage sony twos all the twos he's got all the twos He has ground shaker and then as mentioned Lash and tangle if an attack Made with a melee weapon by this unit So out of the out of the seven attacks based on your profile Hits just hits Models in the target unit cannot make pile in moves until the end of that turn Whoo, we made the tree lord interesting folks. We made the tree lord interesting. We did it. We got there third mission accomplished It's done This book is a success on all on all fronts because of these three things Oh, yeah, I love the tree lord. He's great um Yeah He's still gonna it's still gonna be hard to find a place for him in your combined arms list Yeah, mostly oak and brow winter leaf We'll find a home Yeah, still tough with a combined arms. I think I'll agree. I think that's less the war scroll And I wasn't sure on it at first. I was like, that's a really powerful ability But at 260 points, how good that's gonna be and then people started winning with the at-moot list and I was like, okay That's good But at 260 I tried building at-moot lists, which weren't running oak and brow And do it I always ended up being about 50 points over. Um, so That may be an intentional balanced decision to make it so that that's locked into that faction Um, but if you dropped the points down to about even 250 I'm from 260 you'd start opening up some weird corner cases where you could take these guys and lists Um, like if they were 250 it'd be a real question one tree lord or three current althunders Yeah, a lot of things it's going to be the one tree lord Uh Let's keep moving branch witch. Um, she's the branch witch Again, she's 130 points. She's she's another one of your little your little sub heroes Uh, David, you want to talk about the branch witch? Is she making your way into is she making her way into any lists for you? Uh I haven't built any lists with her yet, but I see what people would do it Um, they moved her unleashed sprites from a six to a five Which is absolutely huge. Um, it means she's got a little mini vortex Um, I was reflecting I said I would never take the war song revenant if the trilogy were a devil caster That's because I don't tend to play the vortex. Um, it's just Sit back and gunline. You just it's not my style. Um, not that that's really gunlining, but it's not my style but if you were like um Building a list you're trying to take war lord. You need a caster Um, I have had really great luck with the war song revenant hiding him Exactly far enough behind so after donating my frontline you get vortexed and everything gets pinged. Sure. Um She's a great pick for that She's cheaper and she gets you an artifact. So I think she'll be in lists Let me ask you a question. You ready this or the girl battle mage Uh depends I'm usually running this Okay And the reason being is I'm usually going to be running either a very reliable spite swarm hive Or i'm going to be running war singer. Okay. I don't need the girl mage as much with that It's fair. It's completely fair answer. Okay cool Tyler any ranch witch defense you want to throw on here? I love you generally I really like what they're done with her that yeah, they made her spell the equivalent of it works exactly like And leech swarm of spikes. Yep I'd say nice tool that you can get at a you know, it's a discount war song revenant. They would just mention the Entire alpha strike defense you can get from her Particularly if you're in all route where you can get a big cast on that, you know iron jaws come rolling in And one or whatever you've got that as something you can do in response the Yeah, I think she's going to make her way into some list which is amazing to say because she was non-existent for Mostly since 2016 She rarely made it into especially with the second book. She never made it into the list. So yep Okay, and like I said, you can if you really want to Uh go ham with the vortex you can do triple vortex with war song and her All right, let's talk gossip at archers. Shall we let's talk about our new little sneaky fairy archers here We got we got the little fairy archers Okay There's their we we reviewed these guys scroll before when they came out in the box. So that's not like it's a new thing Um, but you know if they're 12 inch move two wounds five up save they make two shots each out of their bow Um, which the with the champion. So you got 11 shots coming out of the year Every six to hit at a 12 inch range not a super long range, but they have a good flight They have to get themselves danger close to shoot. Obviously. That's the that's the the balance Every six hits d3 mortal wounds So on average you pull about two d3 mortal wounds from them. Let's just call it that for simplicity of math And importantly if this unit received unleash hell And after all of its shooting attacks have been resolved on a two up they can just retreat they can fly away so Here is my argument on these guys. Tell me if this checks out to either of you They have no battle line option. This is an expensive book I do not think you'll see a huge number of these in a lot of armies I think some army builds will find a way to fit one in one unit in and I don't think you ever run more than one unit To me five is the perfectly fine number. I've seen some people talking about should we stack to 10? No pass Hard pass on that they're still too fragile um, because you know like they Think things can happen that get around unleash hell pretty easy Okay, like there are many ways to not be able to issue receive that command You could roll the one blah blah blah and if something of any weight gets into them, they just evaporate okay But a unit of five may be paired with like three kernauth for your long range Targeting lower armor stuff and these guys targeting nuts you need to crack because they can punch through with some mortal wounds And if then they can spike hard right like it's worth just rolling 11 dice at something That's hard. That's a hard nut to crack because you might roll three or four sixes and just be like smack smack an oodle Right, there you go. You're dead now You're dead now die um So I think at most just see a unit of these I think they'll be hard to fit in But I think you will see some lists that use one unit, especially as a compliment to kernauth archers So I'm gentlemen I'll just start. Do you want to go first? I'll go first Yeah This they fit the principle we discussed near the top of the show You don't want shooting to be too good They Are not going to see that much play competitively in my opinion Not even sure you're going to see that many lists slot in a unit of five, but In terms of I was talking with vents david about the spectrum, right? So let's say on the left you've you're picking unit of three bows or five Gossipant archers in the middle you're picking six bows or 10 Gossipant archers and on the right you're really leaning in or sorry in the middle you're you're you're taking both Let's say, you know, you're taking gossip archers and three bows or you're taking six bows and on the right you're going ham With like nine bows. So which of those three are the most likely? But we're going to see competitively it competitively, I think taking or Maybe two times five. Maybe I think more than five is a trap Um, the reason is and it's the way so I talked about uh, you have to plan your strike and fade These things are cool because they don't put pressure on that Right and move in there fast they go where they want you have war singer. Maybe so they move Faster they light something up. Maybe you strike and fade my favorite draka teleport her behind them how they want to get to So there's play But You take them in a big unit a there's so many things in the game Which are just knees of them and they'll die right and b They're bravery six They're barely more brave than goblins so And everything in our and our units are all bravery You know five six to seven. I think the highest was maybe eight Um, so you have to be really careful of battle shock if you're taking big units Um, so I think that people are going to try it They're going to say yay long strikes And then it's going to be really bad because it's really fragile And um, I think that when you're in those points where like I have 300 points off. What am I going to do? Gossipment in a tribe We're going to go if you're already running the heartwood gunline great Um, if you're doing something else also great. They're a good unit Um, but I wouldn't build around them Yeah, yeah, I agree with all that Uh, you know told you I don't like the idea of playing the slot machine game with them at 220 points With 11 dice. I'm not you know, I could I guess I can see vence's point. I just again It's you need to get more look you're you're stealing scathing mechanics You got to get that scathing mentality because I paid 225 for eight shots They didn't have the exact same rule and let me tell you what Worth it every time I'm in for those boys like slinks a little skitter pack or whatever boy I'm in for those now given they do it in melee as well Um, but they're just a fragile It's a bunch of two wound Dumb dumps on a five up save running around and those guys are worth their points every time So it's not exact equivalent obviously Um, but like I would legit consider two times five one time strika I that that could be quite good, but I wouldn't ever do more than that Yeah, just to like really push into some mortal wound shooting and see what you could do. Yeah Yeah And my problem is tiago if they were 180 points I think you would see people try to really push them and I just we don't need more mortal wound shooting in the game Like that's just not Design of the worst that the worst girl that we got. Maybe we shouldn't have got it It's a high point value and one of these two cheap. Yeah, I think it's a great worst girl I love it. I'm glad it is everything it is They're they're an interesting Like addition that could be a spice into a couple different lists. That's how I see them They're not a build around unit They're uh, they're hey this will go into my plan in some way unit Like started over here. They fit that's that's the way they work. I don't want I don't want to flip that around the other way Okay, I was just the last one in this fence and I mentioned I was thinking I haven't looked at this on the table I don't know if you have yet David. I mentioned to you a few days ago So I was thinking about like what's in play around this you mentioned there are a number of ways you can play around it But one is you know looking at what degree so for them to get away after and leash hell You must still be within three inches An enemy unit to then roll the dice on a tube to get away, right? So if you have a way that you could All models that they kill You charge in as a single file They unleash on you You like some elite unit you pull the first guy and now you don't have anybody else than three or whatever Then they can't float away anymore But you still have your three inch pile in to go get them Right because you're you charged Yeah There's definitely looked at the the footprint on how common That situation might come up, you know 32 mil 32 mil is like a triangle and then everything else behind etc. But yeah, sorry, David No, no, I I I was just um King iron dress your face charging. Yes, that's exactly it, right? There's so much out of phase kind of charging or weighs around on leash It you can't bet on that is your thing. There's sometimes it'll work Sometimes it won't and when it doesn't bye bye goes unit Uh, their use is not walking with family shell. Their use is being easy to slot in, right? Let's talk about the bug riders spite rider Lancers at 210 Revenant seekers at 235 both five wounds to the four up save seven bravery long moves 12 and 14 inches Or sorry 14 inches and 12 inches respectively Uh, both of them have a six inch pile in but not the good cheater six inch pile in the correct six inch pile in the way It's supposed to work If we can just jettison the cheater six inch pile in from the game, that would be great Please stop printing that. Thank you Uh, and then they both have musicians that let them rally on a five up I just think it's a toxic stupid rule like that that six inch pile shouldn't exist This is the correct way to do it my friend shabbos boyson is a terrible person. I know that he's been running baron guard forever Yeah, he's he's a bad person. I hear you. I I just I don't Uh, I I just don't buy the Yeah, whatever. We're not gonna get into it. Okay. They have the good version and they rally on a five up cool beans Now, uh Yeah, we'll get there. So the the shared ability that they both have is thrumming with life So at the end of each phase If any enemy models were slain by an attack made by this unit, they heal all wounds allocated to them They don't restore models They just heal any floating wounds, which they will often likely have at five points, of course or five wounds, of course Uh, now the difference in their two abilities is the lancers Uh Have slightly more attacks, but are all one damage attacks like Whatever, whatever you can see their profiles on the screen. I don't need to read them out to you But the the spite writers have seven attacks base Three and three snake to one damage and so on and so forth. They both have the same bug Whereas the revenants do two damage Descent to the spite writers. They have strike first, which is obviously very potent Like strike first on the charge is so potent because it jumps the line So if you are going for like a launch pad alpha strike hit them and quit them strategy If you bring in six of these guys through like harvest boon or something Right where they're just in and then you catapult forward, you know some kernoff sights This is what I played against on monday Uh, the key is they activate the lancers activate because they have strike first Then you make your first choice of what fights. Let's say the six sites Right, so you're effectively getting your little luminous like a luminous type activation for your first activation there Very potent. Um, the revenant seeker is more expensive at two thirty five But their ability is also quite good once per turn at the end of your movement phase. So you can reposition yourself first Uh, you pick one friendly sylvaneth unit any sylvaneth unit with a wound's characteristic of five or less kernoff or themselves Or other lancers, you know, like all all are qualifying for this And roll a die on a two plus you get to return a slain model to that unit Again, we mentioned earlier the ability to sort of build kernoff units back up through things like the the um verdant spell Combined with like a unit of these guys floating around you can take your your kernoff can be dropping back in potentially two models On your turn that is not nothing at all So, yeah, these guys are both cool. Um, they're both battle line in, um Harvest them. Yep. So Yep David, what do you think about the new bug boys? bug boys and girls, um I particularly like The spite lance riders, uh, I think i'm gonna double check make sure remember. Yeah, there are threes and threes for hitting a wound Compared to the revenant seekers are fours and threes big difference Well, all their bugs are fours and threes both both bugs the same But yes, the main person on top is threes and threes. Yes Exactly. Um, so between the two of them, we're talking about a large alpha striking unit a lot of times I'm favoring the lancers for that because I can get them to that two and two which Is a lot tighter. Um And for the seekers Um used to be I would ask myself, okay Who's going to cast berry doers harm when I eat even rack a current health hunter? How do I make it so I can get it off through all of the anti magic? It was a very hard question to answer which forced me to make stupid choices sometimes Um, now you can just take seekers. They're more expensive than a caster There are there are 15 wounds. They have the outcome of I get the guy back Which what is using the caster for you can't dispel it. They can move before they do it And they're still really fighty. Yeah, so Mean it's absolutely winning on that front to me. Yep Agreed play um Yeah, like the the spite writer lancers one of the trick is if you do and this is something Jen is pointing at In the in the comments if you do reinforce them, you're talking about six models So they have bad coherency, but they're on a but they have a two inch reach with both of their attacks So you actually can get all of your attacks in with like a weird sort of this This kind of uh, yeah set up like you have to organize just kind of like do with the old 32 mil one inch reach trick It's possible, but you have to be able to line up exactly like that Right to fight the unit footprints and yeah front edge of the enemy and so on so yeah So it can be a challenge to actually get all six of them fighting since they're on the big weird ground 60 mil bases Um, I like spite writers. I like them Let's I think so here's my read on it I don't ever see a reason to reinforce revenants and probably I just have one unit floating around and it's mostly it's heal Slash cleanup of small units like they can get in there and do some work against Smaller chaff units and things that are trying to objective sit and stuff like that They're just kind of roaming through it. They can also be healing things back to existence Like bounty hunters Yeah to clean up clean up veterans or whatever. Yeah. Yep. Exactly now Can spite writers become Eels That's the nearest comparison. I can think of let's just go with it Like we know these dudes can get a super big 12 inch pregame move then they got a 14 inch move after that They're going 26 inches Tearing across the board Can I take these dudes into the enemy and blow people up? With you know, like let's say six of them yada yada Is that possible? Do you think that's a build? David what's your read? Um, they're not eels Yeah, I'm trying to make them eels is a mistake um They in our list work really great working with say derp who goes in he's ethereal. He can stay they go in Um, and then maybe a 30 it goes doesn't matter the person could be striking less That could not be striking last they strike first. They fake lead behind the big tree There's a synergy play. They're happening with who you're leaving behind and who you're striking and fading Then from there They have that self-recursion. I rally on a four up heal myself if I do damage Um, so if you want to play eels five up, but yeah, yeah If you want to play eels play eels, they're great, but you're gonna play item You're gonna be playing spite riders. I think that there's some nuances to that where it's just a little bit different I think that's important to to focus on exploiting that completely agreed Yeah, and and the trick is even if you put these guys in bounty hunters because that's the immediate thought right It's like well, you put them in bounty hunters and suddenly all those attacks You know Because the unit itself even a unit of three makes 22 attacks with a champ like all those become two damage and it's like Yeah, sure unless there's no Galatian veterans to attack All right, which is exactly what my opponent ran into where there was just no Galatian veterans to attack They came in didn't do the work and then got You know just murderized Um, that's that's the problem. They are you're exactly right. They're not eels All right, so and that was the problem. You had too many units that needed to access strike and fade They had to stay because the other unit needed to go That was it So just add a few thoughts what david said. Yeah where You set up the triple combo. They strike first You you ground shaker with a derthu Then you have a strike and fade piece. So that could be one of many things That could be three swords three colonel swords. It could be dry shit. Whatever Okay, so I mean you don't necessarily have to have the second the third piece you could get away with two They would be getting out of like yeah with derthu nald warrior. I think he would hang around The lancers would strike and fade out because they've got they don't have to go back to the launch pad Right, they could go to a different wood somewhere else and they've got the built-in mobility to be really functional the But another big benefit is that they open up the potential To surprise your opponent and have a bigger threat footprint than they would expect, right? They blow up the lancers six of them in particular. They blow up the screen Now you've got derthu with a three inch plus a three inch reach I guess the sword is still three inch. I have to look at it, but I'm sure it is and yeah Yeah, so that that yeah that could really surprise some folks in terms of what you could get in from that point After you kill the screen with the with the lancers who yeah, who are probably going to in a lot of cases Anyway, yeah, I think I think they open up a yeah a ton of play. They're not They're not our best hammer You can use them sort of as a limited hammer Or a yeah sort of a limited engagement and hammer hammer But I mean curnauts in particular. I think six curnauts size and derthu are still the primary hammers that we've gotten this book Yeah, I I quite like these guys I think again, you're gonna see some groups of these bug riders in a lot of lists I think they're very good, but they're part of a different strategy. They're not a blind hammer You just slam down and go got them right. That's not what they are They're part of a bigger strategy. All right, you mentioned curnoff. Let's get into it All right curnoff hunters clock in at 230 cheaper with the bows still 30 inch range two attacks four threes neg one two damage Uh, the important part about all curnoff is they're on voice of the ever queen And the way that works now since this did change since the box set This this ability just changes all the time While this unit is contesting an objective Friendly silvaneth units wholly within six inches of that objective are treated as being wholly within six inches of an overgrown terrain feature Super cool. So if they walk up and can test not control contest Everybody else Holi within six inches that objective basically gets to treat his overgrown So that's cool Not only for them because then they can get the appropriate bonuses and like Automatically leave or stuff like that if they need to or do other things they need to do But they can also pass out bonuses to other people who happen to be near them if there's things triggering off that Cool stuff all the curnoff have it. Let's go through it here real quick I'm just gonna hit all three curnoff and then we're gonna talk about them the Hunters with the greatswords Uh, which is a good choice by the way like they actually so here's the trick All else being equal Hunters with greatswords now do more damage than sights That sounds impossible Okay But it is mathematically true And it's because They're sundering strikes if the unmodified hit roll made for an attack with a greatsword is six They suffer two mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends Now when we go over here to the sights who now have a neg three rend Yikes on bikes Again, I'm assuming all are attacking like this is three to three to three comparison Obviously with curnoff the advantage is that the scythe boys can go into six pack and fight over the top of each other That's a huge difference. Whereas the sword boys can't But straight three to three The sword boys actually do one more damage on average Okay, however, then they got this weird new rule All right That is if any models in an enemy unit finish a pile in move Within three inches of any friendly units with this ability that enemy suffers one mortal wound After all models in the unit have finished their pile in moves Let me tell you why this vets tells me this book got real development. Okay Like this actually tells me this book got real mathematical development attention paid Because tyler and I when this book came out we were going through the numbers And we ran the damage calc of three against three and I was like, oh no the swords actually do one more Almost almost exactly one damage point more On average Right against like a four up save and then I was like I looked back at the scrolls and I was like Oh, wait a minute These scythe boys have this weird extra rule that does one mortal wound for seemingly no reason Yeah, and I was like it's that extra point of damage They ran the numbers and figured out that there is this one damage point delta between the two And used this little extra rule to make it so they do the same damage So it's like to me that suddenly makes it like what do you think is in the meta? Do you need the rend? Do you need the mortal wounds? Do you're running in a six pack versus three packs? Those become your relevant decisions because you're not making a decision around just damage versus not as good damage anymore Um, okay, so that's all the current off boys. David. What's what's what's your uh read on the current off boys here? Oh, they're great. They're still current offs. Um, if you like the current offs, which you probably did You'll like current offs. I'm trying to lean away from them a little bit because I ran so many current off lists in the old book Um, but uh, I think the envoys the evergreen ability is amazing Um, because like I said the seasons Place heed the spirit song these guys used to give out heed the spirit song So it's doing the exact same thing from that perspective which makes my nerd heart happy. Um I like scythe because I like rend for Sure Yeah, I get it And and that the hunters with the swords are still a bit of a slot machine. They can spike super hard and just like Hey, I know you're doing all this save stacking. Who cares? Mortal wounds eat it You know, just eat it die. You make You can make sylvanas do a lot of mortals now with the gossamids the vortexing the draka These guys like it can be a thing. Yeah, it's it's a it is absolutely a play a potential Path to victory. Yeah Tyler what's your take on the current off the current off teams the current off triplicate triplets Yeah, yeah, we've already talked a lot about the bows and how Yeah, they're going to feel over pointed and a number of your games That's for a reason. Although sequel, you know, they cannot be much cheaper Also with bows, you have to think about them. David made this point to me The other day you have to think about them beyond just their ranged output, right? Bows can go into bounty hunters, which is meaningful now that there are three attacks each These and threes I believe one damage that goes to two damage And so again that pack of six is putting out A lot a potential output against a five up or a six up that's coming into them, you know, I mean, it's going to be situational They can be a nice screen piece in terms of Going striking and fading back behind them Particularly a unit of six, right? You got dirt through strikes and fade back behind six bows near spikes from high for battle Mage If you want to come into dirt through you're going to get hit with six bows or whatever I think they've got some other uses that are a little more than meets the eye But I get it. I'm not necessarily convinced That six bows and an arch revenant is a sufficiently good investment across the the meta, you know The yeah swords and sides are perfect like they they know but you're going to see more one by six sides Then you do two by three swords or but one by three swords will make an appearance I think and you know some less. Yeah, it's just as usual, right? I should also say by the way, we didn't mention it, but these guys all have a three up save now Which is incredible. Such a good like these guys that that's a big change for the regular unit So yes makes them a lot. It's also worth Worth studying for anyone who maybe didn't place the bloth before they do have the roller dice for each model in the current Oth unit on a four up a mortal Um, very great. Um, and it does mean that in melee current Oth bows hit a little harder than you'd expect a gunline unit to hit Right. Um, don't know what I'd take them for that purpose, but it does mean they don't care if they get engaged in fast cavalry They will just kill it. Yeah. I mean, they are still five wound three up save shooters, right? That can stop mortal wounds out Like these are not easy to lift archers like it's not it's not that world. Yeah They are fairly resistant to that. Yes, I agree Okay, is this the worst scroll in the book? No, obviously that's the underworld's warband Is this the second worst worst scroll in the book? I don't know maybe dry adds One wound seven inch move five up save two attacks fours fours The important part now is their little blessings to the forest They subtract one from hit and wound rolls for attacks that target this unit While it's wholly within nine of any overgrown or awakened wild woods cool that probably still won't save them I mean, it's a good penalty. Neg wanted to hit and wound is a good penalty Like don't get me wrong, but these guys just I mean, they're still going to be turned into timber or tinder Sorry by by almost anything that hits them So if bounty hunters didn't exist, they would be perfectly fine Yep, but as long as bounty hunters exist, these guys are not a winner Like base five up save it's just not enough Shea, shea, yeah, right I could see some folks trying thematic lady of vines She summoned you have your 20 or 30 center focal point of your army She summons a tenor as a screen in front of that and kind of leaning into some old school 2017-2018 some of the play style, but yeah, I doubt it's going to get there Um, I just think it's a super loser in the current meta. I really do. Yeah You can try to lean into it with the double damage Right, I guess yes, that's a good point. Jen if you ended up at exactly 1900 points and you're like crap I need one more unit. It's like I've got everything else I need Can't fit more tree revs in all right tendriads. Fine. There you go. You you made your way Yeah, sure. Yeah, I just ate their wings. Yes They're better and you can try them Yeah, I think that might be the best case for them as a baseline reason to include a tenor Is they give you more screening footprint for protection against alpha strikes and they help you keep your tree revs safe As opposed to using your tree revs of screens. Yeah, sort of. I mean they still can't spread out super far because of the coherency rule But yes, you put triangles on the ends. Yeah, I understand I understand I get it. Sorry It's We'll say if it weren't for bounty hunters at the minus one minus one, they'll never survive They can be hilariously obnoxious for other battle line to remove if someone's on a four four base And they're going to a five five base. Yeah horrible for them. Yes Agreed Okay The mvp of the book is this the best war scroll in the book? Yes. The answer is yes. We don't need to have any other discussions It's yes Tree revenants. They're amazing. They are the best galley vets around two wounds now five up save Fantastic, they don't do anything in melee. I don't care what that stat profile says Um that that stat profile could be zeroes I would still pay 110 points for them and take them every game Their attack profile could be if some lorem techs I would still take them Because they way pipe their their butts around the battlefield and are the ultimate Uh Like objective stealers threat backboard go where you need to go do what you need to do Super super duper teleporty threat awesome expert conquerors. I love them so much at 110 points. They are amazing Right. No. Yeah. Yeah, not a whole lot more needs to be said about them. Yeah, they're battle line always been amazing Yeah, they've always been amazing like they're just They're one of the they're one of the game's perfect units So fantastic I will say one thing I love about the changes is a used to annoy me that I would have this elite elvin revenant thing Which was worse than a storm vermin. Yeah, sure terms of his combat profile now It has two wounds. I'm like at least at least it's hard to kill Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yes. The two wound change on both of these is is meaningful Thanks a lot The like yeah, it's whatever we'll get there in a second, but the the With the tree revs. I've I mean they've been in as I said, I've gotten three games in with them I would have called them the mvp whether I was playing or the opponent was playing them all three games They were the best unit on the table and they never made an attack ever So that tells you right there the value Um All right spite revenants Three attacks three threes no rend one damage The important part about them is that the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with crew talents and fangs is a six He suffered one mortal wound and the attack sequence ends These guys are fine with two wounds. Of course the challenge there is now you're not taking them in big packs anymore. Obviously you're now capped at 10 in anything except Dreadwood which moves them to battle lines so you can go to 15 Um, but if the meta is such where you know doing a ton Of you know, no rend attacks becomes quite viable or one rend if you happen to be around a tree song Uh, you know, these guys can be quite quite interesting, especially in something like Dreadwood I think right now this season isn't the best for them again in the in the world of of bounty hunters all around Uh, but but they I think this is could be a sleeper scroll for the future is my is my feeling David. What's your what's your thought here? Yes, the spider evidence. Yeah Sorry, my headset cut out very briefly is running low on battery apparently. Um, but yeah, no spider evidence In principle, I love them. Um, especially in Dreadwood with the way that makes them work But in practice She takes them you want to run them Dreadwood for that extra rule synergy And that's suicide in bounty hunter meta. So it's just see what the next general's handbook does and then maybe this We playable there you go. Like I said sleeper scroll Don't don't don't write them off your spite revs. They they're gonna have some time to shine. Don't worry. It's it's coming It's like I'm as a potential slot in in a list for you know 210 points a tenor that is a great tool To go kill a decent size veterans unit, particularly when they're in bounty hunters themselves So, you know, if you if you want that tool in your list to pump out 31 or 41 attacks Two's threes, maybe two's twos, maybe minus one brand two damage pop I mean, they can do a ton of work I will watch the battle report on many more gaming the other day where they exploded some 20 packs of gut ripas And yeah, so yeah, I I like maybe a unit of a 10 as a tool Yep, cool Okay Uh, next up Skates wild hunt Okay, so you're taking this thing for 110 points because it's a wizard That has this is the reason you took this thing. This is there. This is 110 points You're paying for this spell might have curnoth Casting value of seven a range of 12 inches pick one friendly sylvaneth you within range invisibly cast her add One to wound rolls for attacks made by uh with melee weapons by that unit until the start of your next hero phase So is it worth 110 points to get plus one to to get a castable plus one to wound spell? That's the question we're answering here. That's it. I think so Yeah, yeah, I think this will show up in a number of lists Oh, this was that might be an overstatement. This will show up in some list Okay A chance to put derthu on two's and twos And you don't have chronofeld bowers. Maybe you made a mistake, uh, according to Even particular events, which I think you made a very compelling argument tonight for chronofeld bowers Uh, the chance to put six bite writer Lanceters On plus one of wounds that could be, you know, I I think it will see some play It also gives you a little more optionality because it takes a deep wood lore spell as well So, you know, you yeah, you got another wizard you can slot in but on a particular, you know More pressing neat than the the plus one of wounds. So As pointed out, this is the cheapest wizard in the book Right. Yeah, it's you think of it think of it as a six one wizard. You kill the other stuff And it's it's a six one wizard. Yep I just wish it was a hero Okay, uh, you'll thari skip. It's 180 points. You're not going to take it. I don't care Endless spells. Let's do this real quick. You ready glade worm? No Spice worm hive. Yes, vengeful skull root Also, no done and dusted. Okay. I don't know who points endless spells But gw listen to me. I want you to really dial in here guys. Okay utility Should be more expensive than damage because utility creates synergy That creates combos that allow you to actually use your army more effectively to create something better than the sum of its parts Something that just maybe does d3 mortal wounds is nothing Okay, I don't know what meta you have in that building That you think something that maybe does d3 mortal wounds at a very short range Like 14 inches on the glade worm effectively. It's wild Is worth 50 points in my list is more expensive than spites worm hive, which is clearly the best endless spell in here Like it's not even close It is so much better than the other two The points here are completely wrong Just completely wrong I don't know who points these things I don't know why they point them this way whatever formula you have Is wrong Please fix it The utility on the spell should be more Unless they just outright bin units like the purple sun and the damage ones should be cheaper. Okay. I've said my piece I mean it's spites worm, right? Like that's war taken and who cares? So don't really really look for opportunities to set up the minus one rent Your opponents potential hit back on your strike and fade piece, especially Or just in general, I think that's going to come into play quite a bit Yeah, it's such a nice benefit on the other side of the of the hive. I kind of like school route Like yeah, I think it'll show up in some competitive list You're sure that ancient poppin out running out of your mind Multiple enemy units. That's not that hard to set up. Nope Again as long as purple sun exists I'm paying 20 more points for purple sun. Sure. Yeah There's no world where I take that stupid tree Out operating in a in a fair, you know fair reasonable space of Sorry, this is the way the world works. I don't know what time man. These are the scrolls that exists Like it shouldn't it should not exist like it does it should be changed immediately Okay, but as long as it does ain't no ain't no vengeful school routes hitting the table. Okay Uh Like plus three to run in charge for 40 points is Stupid it's stupid. That's stupid and especially in a teleporting army I'm sure you guys are all happy about it. That is stupid. I have to What should it be? Okay, let me give you first of all, there's not many things that add plus three to charge in the game anymore ever Like they killed it out of height Okay Uh The Uh, so let's do the easy equivalent in the book that came out at the same time in skaven Okay I can either take a three pack of a stupid unit like three little pack master morons for 65 points And they can whip pack Skaven units or a particular keyword in skaven units, which is giant rats or rat groups And give them the same bonus plus three to run in charge Okay, or I can take a 90 point hero And He can do the same thing And they can only whip one unit so same limitation right like blah blah blah you have it on a two up or whatever, right? So I mean there's whatever um, so Like it's a super good bonus given that mine can work on two different units and is more expensive now given It's automatic. I don't have to cast a spell to do it. I just have to exist But it's much more limited It is also I would point out on a thing that can die There's there is a there is a payment to that. I didn't have to cast a spell that thing can die Your wizard could also die. I suppose Another this can affect any Sylvaneth unit just go ham baby. What do you want to charge? What were you hoping to push through another? shoe vents is that this can be difficult to actually get off the board because it's going to Potentially be in a wildwood that you're not going to be able to see through Have to see to dispel Yeah Yeah, um I'm not saying this shouldn't exist. I'm saying it should be more like literally invert the points. This should be the 60 points Then I'd be okay Much past 60 points, you're not going to be able to fit it and lists anymore without suddenly I'm 10 points over. I can't take dry card to go down. I agree. It should be 60 I don't want it more than 60. It should be 60 Like if this was like 60 points for the spiked swarm 50 points for the for the skull root and 40 points for the glade worm I'd be like well the glade worm still overcosted and we'll never get picked, but at least the world would make sense to me sure enough Okay Cool, let's talk lists We're going to do this somewhat quickly Uh Because I don't know how long my headset's going to last for Yeah, no, it's okay. It's all right. Uh, I'm not going to lie. I might have had to go to the bathroom for the past three hours So here we are. Nope. Nope It's all right. Nope. Nope. We're back. I'm still here. Just my headphones died So now I'm playing with my setup so that I don't keep you guys feedback. Actually, do you have feedback right now? No, no, no, you're good. Thank goodness. I moved the mic So it was over on the other side and turned the game the game way up So should still keep me up. You're you sound the same. Yeah, you sound super good. No issues there. Yeah All right Tyler you sent me these out there, of course, I picked up a little bit of echo when I talk too loud That's all right. I'll be I'll talk it a normal tone of voice. You're fine. Okay I'll just meet myself Easy enough. You just come off me when you want to talk So, Tyler, you sent me the list along. So here we go. I'm gonna let you take us through these The first one I put them in the exact order you sent them Tyler. So Hit me. This is the narrow root one with the dwindling and take what's theirs the revenant drycha Spirit of dirt through battle mage so on Okay, yeah, so this was david and I's Crack this week at a competitive list Over at the dwindling we've talked a lot about that mentioned grand strategy There's certainly others you can take I think takes what take what's theirs will be a common one Have more units in your opponent's territory at the end of the game Obviously tree revenants are highly valuable for that and we've got exceptional mobility Song revenants has the spell singer action now. I have acorn of the ages in this We have a I'm going to say we david. I'm going to loop you into this because it's basically both of our list You have acorn of the ages Because it's a way of getting a wildwood without taking the true lord ancient Now there could be some games where we're going to get punished a little bit for that I think it's going to need some play to see if it's going to be okay, but I like it in principle tree song Incredible particularly with this list can benefit derthu benefit the spider-eyed lancers drychief. She gets into combat Mh is a second option for getting your bonuses to charge I think it's going to be a pretty common pick The spell is a four plus because we're operating in ger so pretty easy to get casted And then we have again the tenor of dryads that idea the silliest rules loophole, but yes, it is true It is true, but he gets his bonus to cast we are in Just the dumbest thing, but yes, it is real On a five. Yeah, we we need a five to four very reasonable Inner of dryads again the the footprint. I think a lot of people would just make that A tenor uh, or sorry fives of tree revenants, but again with this list It's two thousand on the nose So it doesn't quite fit if you just have three by five tree revs But that will be a pretty common choice by a lot of competitive players And then the six fight writer lancers But not the best hammer in our battle tome They're quite solid particularly when you're looking to do combo damage, which this list is really oriented around excellent built-in mobility A really really solid unit To jump in there basically this list is trying to approximate The old dreadwood style Do you get dirthu hitting the target? Then draka's shooting it for 20 She's not charging it because you don't want to have to choose between striking and fading her and striking and fading The lancers, right? Um, I think yeah, dirthu's not the general so he isn't expendable, but You lift 500 points and lulu you lose dirthu. That's not a bad trade. Right. This is very likely to do that. Yep. Um Absolutely, and then the skates wild hunt. Yeah slot in this list had 110 points So could have gone tree. It's basically tree revs Or skates wild hunt or three aether wings and a triumph Maybe that, you know, maybe a unit of five spite revs. It does make a lot of sense to me But yeah, you've got some play around with that Uh, yes, kind of david is alluding to this list can really do combo damage amazingly well, so We'll see to what degree we have death star pieces In the meta to what degree we have that in the upcoming meta relative to what we did have how many gate breakers How many 10 protectors four fulminators yada yada yada, you know where you're going to want to able to do Combo damage while you're making them strike last so that you're not getting any swing back from them within of your pieces, right? This list can do that very well. It's got a lot of different tools decent number of bodies It's got the war song bomb potential heavy hitting with dirthu driches ranged output And then the mobility of the lancers is sort of a second hammer, you know operating in combination or operating somewhere else on the board And then yes by storm hive to close it out. It's a six drop. So I think that's going to out drop Quite a bit in the upcoming meta. My guess would be a lot of lists are going to be eight drops or more And that there's going to be I would tend to think we're going to see like three drops battle reg double bounty hunter And then we're going to see like eight drops maybe seven or eight drops or more And then there'll be a kind of a sweet spot in the middle there if you're wanting to out drop the the higher drops So that was kind of the idea behind battle reg nice All right list two Nar root the dwindling Take what's theirs again This one's got the spirit of dirthu the war song revenant a tree lord ancient and arch revenant again tendry It's five tree rivers five tree revs this time. We've got the six kerrnhoff hunters with great bows once again with the hive All right So david this is your friend adam. Do you want to go through this one adam robert? So I got it. I got a good friend of mine adam robert has been running a list I think this has got some changes from his those but it's very much like this and what it's doing is it's Isn't the tree lord ancient to set up a turn one. Here's the thing I'm going to vortex you a billion times through it and then dirthu basically runs basically runs around like a monster killing stuff The kerrnhoff bows are used in a similar way with the way math mal used to use them to pick off things Just been weakened by that vortex to make sure they really die To pile on a dirthu's damage They also form that front line on the bunker so you can teleport back to it it's Not the way I would tend to do it, but it's been performing well enough in his games on Just in person on on tabletop For the virtual tabletop simulator thing that I felt like it was worth mentioning that hey You're gonna see the vortex play It could look something like this. Yeah, and I like it at 1975, you know It's got the blood thirsty triumph for the reroll charge You know, you don't want to be on a six up charge and then fail it and be in that kind of position or something Right with dirthu. So this that that helps smooth that over without needing to worry about the command point You know, and I do like the combo of the vortex plus the bows It also means that the bows could be used to clear Some of the chaff that might be in the way for what dirthu really wants to get to just there's options There's options then right you got the the double vortex with the dwellers below That coming from the war song remnant with spell singer and she can put both unleash warmest bites and dwellers below The war song and you're in all routes So you're gonna have multiple ways to get your cast a little more reliable particularly for the war song Yeah, I we just thought this is a pretty good approximation The first attempt at an old school play style and the math mellow kind of play style, right We're I'm just not necessarily convinced the six bows and arch revenue is going to get there in enough games But we'll see I'd love to see it right on last list Okan brow season war the burgeoning take what's there's got dirthu We've got the war song revenant draka a battle mage five tree or five tree revs Two tree lords and two three packs of aether wings Uh, and of course, who's that hiding in bounty hunters? Why that's the tree lords hiding in bounty hunters Which I do love I love me some four damaged sneaky claws Oh, they got you David you want to take this one? I mean, it's just my take on ent moot. Uh, most ent moot lists are three tree lords and I was like, you know Up that tree lord, you get a lot of just extra screens mobility and control Um, most ent moot lists I've seen are running. Um, either a lady of vines or some kind of supplemental hammer Maybe some bugs and I was like, you know what I like I like draka And I mean, I do think she actually works really well with ent moot's play I mean, I think it's her or the lady of vines either to get that word on the ent's or to just say You know what? I want extra damage on this. I want to make that character die lots of good stuff She brings to the table. Yeah, you still at the battle mage. So when dirthu leaps himself forward right into the Uh, you know into there if he wants to get somewhere forward He can still be on a seven to charge completely reasonable to get in there. So yeah, absolutely Love it. And then I think the aether wings is actually great tech In here, I really do because you need something in the way in this list And that's just you know, like this is a world where chaff is really important And even though you're not risking much from enemy bounty hunters because I mean, what are they going to get at your tree revs? No, you're going to have those like They're back here, right? Like I'm not worried about them getting bounty hunted and your tree lords don't care But like at the same time, it's just good to have something else in the way. So you have a better counter strike on these Um, so that's nice. Yeah, well, we're gonna say teller. I'm sorry Could you hop back to the the first one? I just wanted to mention that I think a lot of folks could consider The three fourths of that list a template that we might see commonly Where around it's the like 530 points piece of it That can be really where the optionality comes in, you know, where you could pop in That is the spider rider Lancers And the Skates wild hunt Yeah Were the two pieces right you could slot Those out slot in six sides and have 1970 you could you could do a lot of right with that Remaining 530 points and and I think have yeah a number of really strong list I think we've been nice from a long time talking about templates Two big heroes that is Tim wounds are more or that is that's not right. We'd say it heroes with 300 point at 300 points or more two of them will probably be fairly common Sometimes just slot in a third sometimes you won't but yeah, and then yeah one or two sub commanders Uh, two or three tree revs Hammer or two depending on your build out. Anyway, just kind of gives folks some ideas of yeah Kind of like some templates you could see some build around Yep, no, I agree I think you're gonna see the war song because one he's quite powerful in everything that is in here But also too. He's a really good sub commander enabler with You know things like the battle mage or your arch revenue or whatever your other sub commander is that's gonna like Join him and the big boy in warlord or in command entourage or whatever right like yeah. Yeah, I agree The war song is kind of like the natural sub commander choice to be one of those two. Yeah, I agree All right gentlemen, we did it. We got there Fantastic, okay well Wonderful David. Thank you so much, buddy. It was great having you on. This was a wonderful time. You are welcome back any time It has been a blast to be on Absolutely You're you're in the rotation consider it done. This is not a great thing for you though Just were it just be warned in advance because that means tyler might be hitting you up Me like, yeah, we need you for a for a show this week, you know, and you'll be okay So so now you're in you're officially in the club So I'm game for it, man Awesome having me 100% total of you out there who watched thank you so much for watching Don't forget if you haven't hit like yet hit that button It helps other people find the show Subscribe if you haven't already if you want to support the show. There's lots of ways you can do that Uh, you can do those things. I just said those are all free You can also of course just tell your friends or share the videos and stuff like that There's a patreon down below focused on taking your next step on your hobby journey Focus on review and feedback for your hobby Maybe you're like tyler Maybe you're gonna suddenly have a lot of painting in front of you And you want to go ahead and improve those the skills or join an awesome discord community Hey, this is the place where you can do it. It's also an affiliate link down there for element games Maybe more of those to come soon. I hope for other places in the world But as always, thank you so much for watching really really really appreciate it As always We'll see you next wednesday