 We're back with the breakfast in plus TV Africa. Let's quickly talk about you know the finance sector the central bank of Nigeria That's the CBN said that the fresh cash withdrawal limits Recently announced would lead to a further drop in Incidents of electronic payments. That's e-payment fraud in the country Well, the argument is that cyber criminals after hacking bank customers Accounts usually go to automated tele-machines the ATMs add on holy are to withdraw stolen funds setting that the implementation of the new cash withdrawal limits will Determine such fraud stars and fraudulent activities in its bid to ensure successful implementation of its Naira redesigned policy hits which is aimed at replace replacing current 200 500 and 1,000 our denomination with a newly designed once the CBN had said Which he'd said on December the 6th announced that the maximum cash withdrawal over the counter by individuals and corporate Organization per week with effects from January the night 2023 will be 100,000 Naira and 500,000 are respectively sitting that withdraws above this limits will attract processing fees of 35% and 10% Respectively what also reports that says that the incident of fraud in payment system declined by 30% to 35 in 2022 as a result of the various incentives and systems that the central bank of Niger has put in place to checkmate fraud stars the apex bank also expected the new cash withdrawal limits will push more members of the public to embrace e-payment a development he said would tame Criminals to want to target more victims Well, that's it. Let's have a guest join us this morning Muktak Muhammad. He's a financial analyst He joins us right here in Lagos vies in Muktak. It's good to have you join us compliment of the season Compliment of the season actually joining you from cardona to the north from Lagos. Oh, that's that's fine. It's good to know So quickly do you agree with the you know the thoughts of the central bank of Nigeria that this would actually help to reduce? You know cyber crime and criminal activities So I agree with that. I know in your last program. I think I talked about that. I think that's only beauty about the policy Especially with the POS terminus because nobody's looking at that. Everybody just looking at the business type of it They're not looking at it for the length of it like the CBN said and it's happened to a lot of people that I know When it's for the length activities are committed to the band that we draw through the POS terminal not just the ATM especially the U.S. Terminator thing for me It's just one of the good decisions that they took as regards to security But then I still have my fears in terms of other issues But for the following activity, I think definitely it might have but that does not mean that Everybody that goes to withdraw the money during the POS ties in a withdraw it during and only hour They need to come up with strategy like what they are planning to do if you have to withdraw office I think they make I think they should put those conditions for them to meet Right mook tar What sort of fraudulent transactions is the central bank of Nigeria referring to I mean because it's we have a lot of You know fraud rate transactions Are we just talking about e fraud alone? Are we talking about all the forms of fraudulent activities that you think this This new cash withdrawal limit policy will will affect, you know, what are we looking at here? Apologies for that. Yes, so When when the central bank of Nigeria says that a cash withdrawal policy Limit policy will come from Electronic fraud. What are we looking at here? You know, because we know about So come again, I'm sorry about that Yeah, just trying to give other advantage the thing of the crime cash withdrawal policy for me because if I decide this And withdraw policy is part of the advantage But it's not all about it because it's not that for the late activities will not happen So what the CBH always know is that the fraudster always trying to go When the common policy they try to do something to beat it up Just like we've had this money that they had the counterfeit 1,000. I don't know just not even up to a week after The The Note comes out and this was what the CBN told us this was about to achieve to make sure that they are not able to counterfeit most of this No, so definitely it will help but that doesn't mean the CBH does put it at that because The first time I also working to improve on their own technology to beat what the CBN has Because I mean I'm thinking, you know Is it wire wire fraud, you know, I don't know is it the style the the hush puppy style fraud is it Yeah, we have who or what I don't know, but anyway You know what what comes to mind is is mostly maybe money laundering is what I would have thought the CBN was would have looked at more So you're saying that that criminals in terms of the e fraud will find a way around this And you've talked about for instance what we've seen this morning and over the weekend Narrow notes 1,000 I saw, you know being counterfeited We hear that that POS operators are still adamant, you know that this is going to affect them negatively Some will say well she looked to a cost-benefit analysis that the benefit of this outweigh the cost You know for losing some jobs and all that the CBN has said that they have nothing to fear But they're still crying. I mean in today's papers on the front pages had at least one paper giving coverage to that So what do you say to this? Side of the argument which is CBN and probably is trying to justify by looking at the benefits What do you say to that side of the argument about the loss of Okay, but we need to also look at the larger picture because The POS terminal also have created job and especially in an economy that we are now that job creation is becoming like rocket science So definitely I think they have a point But that does not negate the fact that the writing has to do because when you are talking about for the next activities You're reporting us today that CBN said they were able to reduce it by 22% Even with that there are a lot of foreign activities and moreover Most of the people that are affected by these problem activities for POS are mostly those born in the Boon Nagila Those that are in the in the raw area So the CBN has to do everything to protect those people because they are definitely the poor of the poor So the POS operators I thought what they should be discussing with the CBN is how they can improve security How they can come up with strategy to reduce these challenges that they normally have So for me, I don't think it's just all about the job all about the threat, but they need to look at the larger picture How can we improve our services because in Nigeria? We just think of profit We don't think about of services and we don't think about security I think the CBN is looking at the services that are going to render and the security of people funds and that is Responsibility that have been put upon for the CBN so for me I think we look at that, but again we need to improve the security and the POS terminus operators should be looking at talking to the CBN on how to improve Security after all, what the CBN that came up with the idea of having the POS Terminus especially in the raw area for financial inclusion So apart from electronic fraud that has been stated by the central bank of Nigeria Let's also look at you know the issue of kidnappers. I mean we know that there has that seemed to be Creative business in Nigeria Where ransom has been asked for do you also think that this tackles the issue of you know kidnapping and looting my government officials? Looting my government officials, I don't know how that will work But I mean it might work because government officials would definitely want to use one or two cronies to get those these I think that is where the The banks as amidst the we have been told to report any Transaction at above a limit is there in the money-laundry act. So I think that should still be handled by the bank the other aspect of The kidnappers I'm actually in the not is like I said and in having kaduna to be precise and I see the joy that the citizens I mean the people of kaduna are having with this that is going to reduce the amount of Keep napping of banditry that has been happening around here because most of this boundary money is given to them in cash and they even said that most of this bandit are even now they are Panicking because some of us they have this liquidity in high amount They don't know how to bring it back to exchange it for the for the for the new neuronal So definitely it's going to help security. I have to say that initially when the CBN came with this policy I said it that the policy is both an economy and security policy So definitely is going to help especially knowing fully whether keep nappers normally done their transaction by cash but again That put the victims at risk because it's not in the order beating to want to meet the demands of the kidnappers so I think they It's not a women's situation as it is now because the beating family want to look for every available means to To get their People out of the kid after down and the CBN and security agencies we want to protect So definitely is not going to be a women's situation Unless the security apparatus are up to their game using that as a as a means of Arresting the keep nappers telling you we give you this phone But we have to we have to know how this one is going to move We are going to position our people so that when they come to collect it will be able to strike It's not going to be just the city and the security people also have to up their game All right CBN has said that they experienced a 35% decline in electronic fraud You know as they increased Cashless transactions in the country But I mean if you like you said if these guys want to make their money They wouldn't mind doing for new ways to defraud people The CBN is also saying that most of these People who conduct commit fraud online We draw the monies from 8 a.m. 16 2 a.m. And 3 a.m. To draw a whole lot of money So if they place this limit it will be half of them to withdraw But I mean kind of go the next thing they would go they would look for another way to take the money So I don't that's what I was asking you because I mean some of these things you hear from these officials You wonder what exactly you know, uh, they're driving about mukta. Thank you very much. It kept it even in Lagos Okay, even in Lagos the coming point that the one chance people were using p.o.s To to to rob people even the security about to some of people that reported security about needing them to 80 a machine To withdraw money to give to them. So definitely it's all about both security and economy They need to come together and find a way but but if I commit fraud online And I I want to withdraw the money and I realize I can't withdraw I mean won't I find other ways to you know to to keep the money in another way that you cannot withdraw the money is if the If the if the person that is involved has reported the matter to the bank and the bank block that account As longer that account is not blocked You find a way to even transfer each another that can remember that some of the issue the efc attack Is multiple transfer you transfer from a to b to cc to d and those transfer Just keep moving from one account to the another I can just go to into a supermarket and buy everything I think the good is outside go and sell them on the black market So so the thing is if we further look at this, you know ideology and argument has been put out You would say Because you have defaulted someone of so much let's say it's one millionaire And then you can't take out one million instantly from the atm or the p.o.s But you also have the option of you know making transfers Uh, I really don't know if there's a lot of limit or if this You know limit on how much you can transfer depending on the account of accounts that you're operating But also stop this, you know fraud stars from taking time It could also just be you know what let's take it easy and spread this money in different times So I I just take my time and we draw it Within a week and I get the money or maybe two weeks different in Individual economy in the world when I do the transaction No matter how much transaction I do It stays in my account for like a day or two before it's transferred to the individual account Because of fraud leg activity like so if after a day or two there's no complaint Then it will be transferred. I think what does the what we need to do in this case is that the cash would add limit will reduce That but again, it has to be the account owner complaining to the bank I'm sometimes the bank will not tell you that we need to get a police report And in the process of going through all these bureaucracy Do this the the the the scammers are to me the attack We're gonna have issues like that. All right Mukta. Thank you very much I wonder if the policeman hopeful Nigerians to 8 a.m. To to force them at gunpoint To withdraw monies and pay them bribes on the road We'll it will deter them. I'm sure it will still continue. It will still continue Bulta, thank you very much for your time. He joins us live Vazum from Kaduna I appreciate your time. We'll have a financial analyst Thank you. All right, appreciate them. It was once a policeman, you know, I did a wrong You know, I didn't see him saying stop at traffic, you know in front of my one police station notorious in Polakot So I drove I was naive at the time. I was doing the ctd Forced me to pay money from 8 a.m. I need to refuse. Oh, Danny was I was much younger. I was much younger. We have to go. Thank you very much for your time My name is Kofi Bartels, and I am messable boy It's fine to follow us on facebook twitter and instagram and subscribe to youtube channel on plus tv Africa plus tv Africa lifestyle Have a fantastic day