 Interpretation of history is key. My grandfather struggled. My father struggled. I'm a struggle. My child will struggle. My grandchild will struggle. I have a history of struggle. I have a history of resistance. Thus it didn't come upon me to struggle. Interpretation of history is very key. Good day, brother. How you doing, my dear brother? New episode of Hella Black. Hey man, you know, you got your, we go back to some of these old video episodes, go back to the old ones. You gonna see me with some braids, and now fast forward to 2023, my brother got some braids. I remember there was a time, yeah, I ain't ever gonna get braids. I mean, I was just impatient. I think it's a testament to where I am in life though, as it pertains to patience. And my divestment from a Western culture, specifically for the black man who, I don't know, I feel like I had to look a certain way. And like being clean cut was always important to me. Not to say that it's not now, right? You're still clean cut? Yeah, but I just, okay, this is what it was. Not for real, like my hair is hella nappy. Like actually like very, very nappy, you know what I'm saying? And so I just had to do some work around letting that go. Cause that's what happens when you have four months, right, growing your hair out, and you have the kind of texture I have. It's like hella nappy mass shrinkage, you know what I'm saying? But no, I'm over that. Yeah, brother got that stash. You know, very much. Brother got the bros, man. Strong stash. I was thinking, bro, the same thing to you, same along the same lines. We really been doing this podcast for seven years. That's insane. That's a while. Seven years, that's a long time. Seven years of content. I don't know if I, Well, it's even wild as some people have been listening for seven years. I feel like it's one thing to make it for seven years, but there's people like who bring up all the episodes. I'm like, oh, I said that. I remember when you said this, I said, for real? It's good and bad though. It's good and bad. Cause I was like, you look back on some of the things you said to some of the old episodes. I definitely disagree. But hey, evolution, transformation, emancipation from old way of thinking to a new way of thinking. You know what I'm saying? It's all part of your process of growing. I mean, there's definitely things I wish I didn't say in the past, but also I read some books. Now, I can't remember what, I might've been reading Malcolm's autobiography. I'm like, yeah, he definitely probably wouldn't agree with. I just read, let's just, I've read books where I'm like, this is a byproduct, this person said this as a byproduct of their understanding, as a byproduct of wherever society was at that point which led to them to reach in this conclusion. And that's why I would say, for anybody who's going through a political education process, be very conscious of the things you put out into the world, publish out into the world. Like my writing stuff, I don't feel, I don't feel ways about that, but like tweets and shit, I'm like, bro, what the fuck? But that's cause I was just, I wasn't so much thinking, I was just putting stuff out. Yeah, that was a time period for sure. Like where Twitter was like, think about the first thing you say and then tweet it. Like that was really like, it was like your brain, it has a thought and then you just tweet it. You know what I'm saying? Whether it was about P here, whether it was about anything, like that's like, there was a certain time in Twitter, that's what it was. But my writing though, like all my like early articles, I read some stuff, even, you know how me and you met when I was writing about the organizing, y'all was doing that cow. Yeah. You know, it was a very, looking back at it, it was a very liberal piece. You know, like it didn't really make anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist analysis and connections as to why you all would even have to work for such things on campus, right? Even though I was mentioning George Berkeley and the Confederacy and Lecont and all these different things, right? But I don't look back at that because it was also very well researched and just based off my, where I was at the time, it was a good piece. It was still strong journalism. You know what I'm saying? Versus like those tweets where we just talked about, where you just like saying stuff, no real merit, you know what I'm saying? Feeling emotion. Emotion is hard, you know? So if I, you talked about people, I bring that up because you mentioned folks who might've been listening since the beginning, you know? And so I think anybody who's early on in the PE process right now, just be, try to be as conscious as you possibly can about certain declarations you're gonna make because even if you identify as like a revolutionary pan-Africanist and you are very versed in the thoughts of like Seko Toure, Cabral, Enkrumah, Maurice Bishop, Julius Nairi, even if you might find yourself versed in what your understanding is only gonna deepen, which means, you know, you might not necessarily, you just not gonna have the same takes, the same understandings or hopefully if you actually develop in, you know what I'm saying? So you just be conscious of what you say. It's always been conscious and always understanding that viewpoints are growing, viewpoints are changing, we're always, we always should be evolving. You know what I'm saying? When that's like constantly, everything is always changing and if everything is connected, you feel me? We gonna have to adjust. You feel me? Like what Yaki said, you gotta stretch it. You gotta stretch things to fit the time you're in. As soon as that stretching don't work, you gotta stretch it again. You know what I'm saying? And mold it to the condition that you was facing. So I think probably every writer will look back on some of that old stuff. You feel me? Or I remember I looked back on one of my old articles I wrote probably in college. I'm like, ooh, but then I just stretched it. I rewrote it to fit the time and it ended up being stronger. You know what I'm saying? So part of the process. But bro, we've been doing this for a long time. So I think we should be proud of, you know? Hopefully, I mean we've had, we've had people give us feedback in terms of how they have resonated with our own journeys, how they find the content and the subject matter pressing, useful and valuable. So that's a win in my book. And I hope that as we take another dive into doing video content, which is very hard, you know, very, very hard. It wouldn't be hard if all we did is just podcast. It might be a little some challenges and whatnot, but when you live in a full, full life with organizing and working and family and all types of other things that go on in life. I think podcasting is just hard in general. Like a lot of people to do a good podcast, I would say. Yeah, I mean, you can just talk. Cause even those earlier ones, I wouldn't, now that I know what I know about like structure and storytelling and flow, I wouldn't say that our earlier podcast or a good podcast was, sometimes we didn't even have outlines. Early on, probably the first like 40, 50 episodes, we didn't have outlines. We would just get up there and ramble, you know? And at times I'm sure if you listen to it. The outline was a Hennessy bottle, you know? And so I believe based off again, structure, flow, that I wouldn't call our early podcasts, you know, that good. And so I would say doing a good podcast where you can actually keep your listener engaged and allow them to stay engaged, to follow the content, the subject matter, in somewhat of a linear way. I don't think every podcast does that. I don't think every podcast does that. And that's a true skill. And then when you get into video content, that's it. Hold on to the skill. You know what I'm saying? It's like to make people want to stare at you the entire time. You know what I'm saying? Like you're looking, but I'm feeling like I'm following y'all. It's the whole thing. So I think podcasts can, because so many people are doing them, which is why again, we use, you know, Sam, we were, I guess, discussing needing to do video content again. You know, I'm kind of doing my research and looking at some of the stuff. I'm like, damn, everybody got a podcast right now. Seven years ago it was different. Yeah, which I think there's an audience for everybody. But it's just, it's such a watered down field because people think it's very easy. And that's why the cream rises to the top. And you know, I'd be watching some people. I'm like, okay, no, this is actually, especially some of the sports stuff that pops up now. I'm like, yeah, this is actually pretty good, you know. Or when it's like actual good journalism. Or you can tell, I don't know if it's the actual host that are doing it, but they're production team. That production team is fire. I'm saying, and even if you a host, you got to have a certain charisma again. Charisma style swag that make people want to, you know, buy into what you got going on. Turn it on to YouTube. So turn it on to YouTube right now. Subscribe, comment, you feel me? Well, people know that Hella Black is back on YouTube. You feel me? So subscribe, comment, like it, share it. You feel me? That's how we spread our word. You know what I'm saying? We ain't got no big marketing budget. We just got the people behind us, you know what I'm saying? So appreciate all the love, all the support, especially as you know, we've done this Tales of the Town project and we're just starting to get back to Hella Black. You know, we got more stuff coming as well. Similar to Tales of the Town soon. I don't know how soon, but we're gonna make it shake. So, you know, so. And to a point around, you know, folks, like and subscribing, join in our Patreon, patreon.com, backslash hella black pot. We definitely need anyone who is, I would say philosophically and ideologically aligned with black liberation, with black empowerment, with community and egalitarianism, with freedom and liberation. If you align with those things, please boost our work just because, again, we talk about everybody having a podcast and so much of the stuff that's being put out right now. Reactionary. Very, and just negative. Culturally, nationally. You know, it's negative. It's pessimistic, encouraging colonial behavior. You know what I'm saying? Encouraging integration, encouraging being part of the system, encouraging get money, you feel me? Yeah, and I ain't gonna say anything. Get money, you know what I'm saying? But get money for the people too. But I'm not gonna say that our podcast is the best, but I would say it's a part of a full scale and full circle approach to impacting community. You know, we are trying to share the knowledge that we've acquired through our own learnings, whether that be through films, through books, through podcasts, through music, you know? Wherever we acquire dollars, we try our best to share it. And this is one of the platforms that we do it in addition to our actual community organizing through people's programs. And I say all that to say we definitely need your support because we up against a machine, a machine that produces content to push forward Western values, to push content that pushes forward individualism, that pushes consumption, that pushes, you know, being a docile human, right? To not really form an analysis of how the world around you functions so that you can contribute to it in a way that actually aligns in a way that's what you want, right? All of us can actually name, for the most part, that we don't agree with how society functions. But yet many of us still buy into it, whether consciously, unconsciously, right? But, or we don't attempt to learn ways that we can shift it. And so our podcast is an attempt at showing y'all the ways that, you know, we can all come together to make change in this world. But we need that because so much of what's on is just gossip, right? I'm looking at everything is just talk show. And it's just having celebs come on, talk current events, talk current gossip, without much of an educated understanding of the socioeconomic and political systems, institutions that govern our everyday life. And that's what we try to do, right? We wanna talk pop culture, talk current events, but in a way that actually lead to some change. Some change, otherwise we just talk. Not just an investment in this, you know, pseudo-intellectual celebrity culture. Yeah. I mean, we find against, I don't think people realize how deep it is, but we find against essentially this capitalist, imperialist propaganda machine. And that propaganda machine is so strong, you don't even recognize that it's propaganda, you know what I'm saying? Because that propaganda might look like you, and might talk like you, and might try and relate to you in a certain way, but it actually is diametrically a policy to humanity. You know what I'm saying? So that's what we're up against. We're up against these white supremacists designed as corporations that is pushing liberalism, that is pushing neoliberalism, that is pushing cultural nationalism. And, you feel me? When you're talking real stuff, we find against, you know, I know AI is a big thing right now, but why we find against the algorithm? We find against the algorithm, and we find against, honestly, shoot, being, our content being surveilled. Our content being surveilled and pushed to the side. Yeah. So when we say support, the people support. You feel me? That means a lot, because that's what we up against. We up against the political machine that's invested in our genocide. So we needed the support to be able to get out the real world, feel me? The real message of how we can transform ourselves and transform our communities. A lot of people don't even know that content like this exists. Now, again, I think we can do a better job. We can do a better job of getting this out there. Yeah. And if we know whatever rationalizations we can make of, you know, different organizing stuff that organizing life stuff that at times can make being consistent with the podcast difficult. But, you know, we've had this conversation before, which we're gonna, this podcast, we're gonna talk about revolutionary art, specifically the art that we have produced as People's Programs, Inhala Black Podcast, right? But imagine, you know, at times being me and you just sitting down like, okay, we've read 100,000, that's 100 some pages, 1,000 pages this week. Like, you know, I actually wanna give my eyes a little break and my eyes in brain and just watch something, but I don't wanna watch something that is, you know. Invested in my destruction. You turn on HBO or something, it's some demonic shit on there. Like, actually, we was watching Shazam last night. It was just like, bro, like demons coming out the ground, you know? And again, it's a comic book, but it's like, hey, what is up with Western society and demons? Like, this like, that's all you see. Like, we don't never see nothing about angels and, you know, we hardly ever see that, right? And if it is, they battle in demons. But we talk, we have these conversations around, like they're not being much content to feed the soul, right? You know, like, damn, I wanna, I do wanna watch some TV, you know? I don't think TV is just like, I don't think it's all negative, right? We say anything that's negative can be used for positive. But how often, when we pull up our YouTube, if we're not watching boxing, you know, some combat sports stuff, you know, most of the black power stuff that we are forced to watch, that's the stuff that can give us a real sense of meaning and connection to the content and for us as new athletes, a connection to our struggle here and understanding and just like the beauty that exists in all of it, we be having to watch old Malcolm, old Thuray, Julius Nairi, Asada, like all this old, old stuff, right? There's like nothing in contemporary times that can really relate and speak truth to the struggle. And we've had, they've done things, right? You get like a Judas and the Black Messiah, right? That points to some black history stuff. But even then, you know, I just be wanting something that like actually can feed me, you know, like really feed my soul. I mean, we don't really exist here. And also learn at the same time, like you're not going to learn. I mean, if you think about it like a catalog, like some of these streaming sites have, you feel me, it's endless content. You feel me, it's endless. But for something that really feeds your soul, feeds your spirit, you feel me and help build community, is there endless content of positive images, of positive stories, of stuff that's actually centered in the people? It ain't. And again, we find against capitalist imperialism, but hopefully we can begin to contribute deeper and deeper. You know, and I think it's a good segue in the tales of the town, you feel me? Because I think that was like a bigger contribution that we've made to media space, especially to Oakland, as well as a different type of storytelling. You know what I'm saying? With it being scripted, highly produced, hella interviews and just being a different type of sonic experience from a podcast lens, as well as having a film, the book and the album. You know, I feel like that approach was important, you know, and continuing to take approaches like that. I think it's going to be important as well. You know what I'm saying? Like really finely crafted media, you know what I'm saying? And I think there are other, I don't know that many. I do want to shout out, it's Real Black on YouTube. I be getting a lot of content from them. Again, it's like old stuff, right? Like I'll be watching, and that's where I get some like the Malcolm stuff. Torrey. But yeah, I think anyone who's actually saying they want to make, you know, tell stories, create content that's uplifts to people that shares knowledge, awareness. You know, I hope that they find inspiration through the tales of the town project because we need more of that. Yeah. Like we actually need more of that. We need more, it ain't just about us. We're trying to inspire other people to be able to take similar approaches that we took. You feel me in the creative projects that celebrate their locale, or you feel me or a certain story to them. You know what I'm saying? And that could like actually change the way people think about their self, their people, their community, you feel me, their family. You know what I'm saying? Like we need to address it all. And we need people in the community to get behind these smaller projects because these things aren't cheap to make. And not cheap. The only way to combat or be able to somewhat compete with those large-scale industrial projects is to have your community get behind you, right? Like imagine if we had, you know, it's 400,000 people in Oakland. We only did a couple hundred at our premiere shows. Oh no, no, I'm sorry, 1,000, 1,000. That's a drop in the bucket. At the D Young, right, where we take it across the bridge on the San Francisco, that stadium or that auditorium holds like 260, 229? Between like 230 and 260, right? It was definitely like 265, I think was the cap, right? And so we had almost 265 people. Well, we did over 265 because it was two showings, right? So you get around like, let's say between the Bay Area, between our four shows, we've done outside of the schools that we did, right? We probably like 15, 600 people. It's 400,000 people in our town alone. You know what I'm saying? Like we got a very small drop in the bucket of support that we can get, right? So it's just gonna take a lot more community support to actually be able to get these type of projects in front of as many eyes as possible, right? Granted, we haven't put it out online or anything, nothing like that, but yeah, we need community support at all times. That's the only way you can combat these very large entities that are backed. Yeah, but I think that's why, you know, at least for a first project like that, those is decent numbers, you feel me? Cause then it's like, all right, you had that 1500 people, now people's talking about it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Then all right, the next one, all right, you had 1500 for the first one, now it's 5,000. You know, the next one, oh, it's 10,000, you feel me? And that's why I think strong media is so important because if you affect one person, I could be happy with that. Will you change one person's life? You know what I'm saying? And then if you think about the impact you had on that one person, who was that one person now seeing that one person is now having an impact on other people, but you're the one that impacted them to think how they thinking. You feel me? So now that changes from one person to five people. And that five people impacting, now they impacting five more, now it's 10. You know what I'm saying? That's really like how change happens, it starts small, everything starts small, smart sort of person to people. You gonna feel me? Saying, oh, I got to be. And then from there, making a shake and then going down, you feel me? Trickling down, trickling up amongst the people. So for you, what has been the best part of? I guess like the creative process of Tales of the Town and then being able to go out and distribute it. I mean, we essentially went all up and down in California, we haven't, you know, but yeah, what has been the best part of, you know, creating it and also pushing it to the people. It's hard to really just nail it down to one thing, in my opinion. I would say from an individual level, like just watching like myself, like both of us change, you know what I'm saying throughout that process, like both of us really evolved and the way we approach the work, you know what I'm saying? Like the way we approach media, the way I feel like we really had a goal of making this very like accessible to a wide range of folks, you feel me? So I would say like just like that internal aspect of creating and watching how like these stories, these interviews, you know what I'm saying? Working with different people, like how that actually changes you and the way you think about things as well. So I would say that from an individual sense, like that just that change yourself, like a whole different person from when I started or from when we started, you know, Tales of the Town to when completing it. And I would say too, it was just like a measure of like hard work as well and discipline despite, you know, the challenges that they might have had that we've had, you know, in getting this project out, especially like as a very small team, you feel me? Put our money together, you know? If we ain't going to put our own money up, why we expect somebody else? We ain't going to put our own money, why we going to expect someone else to believe in us if we ain't finna do it ourselves. So I think that is definitely another aspect of it that I appreciate is that like, we're just going to find a way, you feel me? No matter what, to make it, you know what I'm saying? And I think it was just a new challenge. You know, I think we're held with black. It's like, all right, obviously we can improve it and make changes and adjustments and have new ways of thinking around it. But like, to do this podcast versus to track, hey, this is Tales of the Town, you know what I'm saying? Like to track, like that was like a whole new skill which at times could be frustrating more than how to track and find your voice and whatnot. But being able to really struggle and like try and perfect a new craft. Like I admire that aspect and just like shoot, just learning more, you feel me? Like even, you know, learning more from my yo experience, more experience that you have in like music and stuff. Like being able to learn from yo experience as well as other people around me. You know what I'm saying? That was working on the project, like just being able to have more skills. You know what I'm saying? So I appreciate it, like the new challenges, the new hurdles. And then honestly, just seeing people react to it positively, you feel me? Like, all right, you put all that work in but no one liked it. It's like, so I think the people getting behind it, you know, I know we was talking about with small numbers, but I would say we still got, we got a lot of support, especially for a small local homegrown project. Like we did numbers for, you know, charting, front page of Apple podcasts. You know what I'm saying? We had a lot of, you know, a lot of support behind it. And it was dope just seeing like a lot of people come behind the project. You know, there's a lot of people that was involved in the project, even though it was just like this first thing that just started like it was do a podcast on Oakland. And then just seeing how many people came to support it. Like I just think it just reminded me of the power of community. As well as like why we need strong media that is actually authentic and telling the people's stories. You know, cause a lot of times we just get this bastardized version of media, of quote unquote representation that is actually harmful. But I thought we was able to have a good balance, you know, of the pain, but also the beauty. You know what I'm saying? Like the negatives and the positives. It wasn't just like this negative approach. You know what I'm saying? It was not, it was like, we're going to tell it all. But then yeah, and then having the family stories documented, that's huge. That's huge. Especially being in the academy at one point just thinking about like how I used to like search for archives, you know what I'm saying? In the library, I'm like, okay, this stuff can be archived one day. You feel me? Yeah. So yeah, what about you? What was it like for you to highlight these stories, you know, from your hometown? Like, could you ever saw yourself doing that? Especially as a young kid? Like, yeah, so what was that like? Man, I think first, you made like two big points that I think like post the project have really began to resonate with me. I mean, I spoke on it at the D Young. Like, I think it really is a testament to how we both have grown as writers. You know, if I look back to when I was studying journalism in Idaho, and I can remember like being in like the computer lab and stuff, you know, them giving us different exercises to be able to tell stories in, you know, long format, short format, right? Like you got your little 300 word column, you're gonna have to do or you got this longer, you know, front page spread that you get, right? Just being able to show your range and write us having never had wrote scripts before, specifically like, you know, like a, having never not having experienced writing scripts and being able to hit my like, okay, how do you approach writing podcast scripts? And, you know, she essentially walking us through it one time and then us being like, okay, but just like, you go in one room, I go in the other, then we were reviewing the script a few days later. I think that's a real testament to, skill, talent, commitment and buying and like discipline, but then also, it also shows why political education is so important. Cause I believe that Julius Nairi's Ujama and him really drilling home the importance of like self-reliance as it pertains to building nations and how small countries, right? As a result of imperialism will have to work harder and longer if we really want to see- And be innovative. If we really, you know, we're gonna have to work harder and longer, right? Like don't, development can only come from individual, right? Only come from the people saying like, our true sovereignty, true development can only come from the people and their commitment and their understanding and the building of their own skills. No one can provide that for you, right? So that's saying like, we can't look out, we can only look, we gotta look in here first for whatever solutions, right? And not being too beholding to not having, you know, huge budgets and not having companies behind us but us saying like, bro, like what can we do? Like always at any time, what can we do? How can we figure this out? So first, right? So those two points of the skills and talents that we possess as writers to dive into something we've never done before. And then also that real policy of self-reliance and that's why I believe that PE is so important, right? By being able to make sense of how Africans have struggled throughout centuries to be able to see their dreams come into fruition. Whether we talk about Julius, Nairi and the Tandu and Tanzania or we talking about the Lindsey and the Bosch trying to put together this project in North Oakland, right? Like I think it's just a true testament of us trying to embody that real African fight, that new African fight. And then highlighting stories of the town. When you've, we've said this in different settings as people ask us about the project and it even comes up in a lot of the episodes, right? Where D Nas is talking about, man, you just know when Oakland, you just know when some Oakland shit come on. And then Lili talking about in a sports episode, like it's just something about Oakland athletes. We just carry ourselves a certain way, right? So it's just something about Oakland. Yeah, when you just have a certain pride and why wouldn't we? When you look at how much this city has provided to new African culture, like why wouldn't Black Oaklanders have a sense of pride? And so growing up here in my entire life, it was instilled in me at a young age. And so being able to use the skills and resources that we've been able to acquire as a result of being student athletes as a result of having success in media and being able to branch that out further into the community and be able to highlight these stories, it's a blessing. I don't feel like it's anything different. It's, again, you talk a lot about picking up the baton and struggles being a relay race. And so I feel like we just doing the exact same shit that everyone before us has done. This is just our attempt to contribute to centuries. Well, as it pertains to the new African context, right, like centuries, but we talk about 1,000, 1,000, 1,000, 1,000 years of African history. We just trying to contribute to that. And so I'm hoping we can get it in front of more of the population, because I believe that it's gonna resonate. I mean, Oakland is only, what are we at right now? Percentage Black-Wise. 22%, I believe. 22% Black, right? So I don't know how, we still have, we've only reached the drop in the bucket as it pertains to. And we see all these moratoriums that is ending the new film and these evictions is gonna step up. Who knows what's gonna be like in the next, yeah. But hopefully we can just get it in front of more or Black folks in Oakland. But I also think that we did a good job of making sure that everybody could appreciate it as much as we censoring Black folks. But it's understanding like every block you walk on got some history to it, you know what I'm saying? So it was dope. I find this was an attempt for us to use art in a different way, in different mediums. I feel like this podcast is art, you know, in a certain way. But what do you think is the role of art in revolutionary struggle? And how important is it? You feel me to wage, you know, the struggle to free the land? Yeah, we got this second volume of Free to People Press, which is the magazine written and produced by People's Programs and our organizers, which will be coming out in June. Yeah, what should June is almost here? What's it be coming out in a couple of weeks? And our community pop-up is where you'll be able to purchase it for the first time. June 25th. Flyer is gonna be on the YouTube screen right now. Insert Flyer right here. Yeah, we should have started off with that. People might have tapped out already. But yeah, I bring up the pop-up and where you can get it. I mean, I bring up the magazine and where you can get it because in it, there's a story that features Emory Douglas, former minister of culture for the Black Panther Party and most of you probably know him for all the graphics and stuff he did and shit, the lead producer of the Black Panther newspaper, right? And then we also interviewed, he also is interviewed in collaboration with Senai, who is the creative director, founder and owner of Maddo Future, Oakland-based clothing line. Senai has also done a lot of the design work for People's Programs. If you look at the shirt that Abbas is wearing right now, I mean, Senai designed that shirt for us, right? And so anyway, we interviewed these two people and Emory highlights the importance of the Black Panther newspaper and all the revolutionary art they were making, whether it was designing the pig and showing all these different, essentially like highlighting the struggles of new Africans in the United States, so-called United States, and they struggle, right? You had the pig, you had shit him depicting the war on the streets, right? And that artwork that he was doing was not just a representation of the people, but also a means to give new meaning, new purpose, new heights to what new Africans were experiencing. And so, man, if we look at what revolutionary art can do, that's one aspect of it. And then for us specifically, what I've noticed and what we've experienced, what tells the town is it's been a huge recruiting tool for us. Huge. Huge. Oh, we literally have signed up hundreds of volunteers as a result of it. I'm thinking people over here waiting to buy some merch all the time, they waiting for a laptop to sign up to volunteer. It really was our biggest recruiting tool that we can't think of a time where we've been able to just at that point sign up hundreds of volunteers to come get involved. And then at our poetry, so we also did a poetry, right? So for Tells of the Town, we also like a boss was saying earlier, we did a book, we did the film, we did the podcast, art exhibit, and we did an album. And so part of one of the activations we had where we had artists from the album come out and do like a poetry event where everybody spit they verses and hooks or whatever, spoken word style. And there in the back, we had a volunteer sign up table and we also had a donation station. And so if we're talking about art representing the struggle, art giving people a means of understanding what's going on in the communities, and then shit being a vessel for mobilizing, organizing the people, they go hand in hand. And we witnessed it, period. We always understood it, right? Based on our own studies of the Black Panther Party, shit which Che was doing out with Che and Fidel were doing out in Cuba, right? It was one thing to understand it though and the next thing to put into action. You will be to study it, to understand it and then to be able to execute and have the impact that it had, you feel me? And that it's continuing to have in terms of recruitment, in terms of changing the way people think, in terms of actually providing spaces that is you feel me relevant to the people, you feel me? But also you got fun and it ain't has to be just like this massive turn up. You know what I'm saying? We can have cultural events and events with art. You feel me? That actually changed the way people think about themselves, the way they think about community, the way they even think about organizing. Cause sometimes I think people think about organizing as this very far-fetched thing and I just realized and actually, we just essentially put simple truths into reality, trying to make a change, you know what I'm saying? So I think these events have been huge. So outside of the magazine and Tales of the Town, how else have we been using art in the program? I mean, I think even if we, like I said, the podcast, you know what I'm saying? Like, what will be us starting the podcast and wanting to talk about these issues, which I see this podcast as an art form, right? As a cultural production, you feel me getting it to change the masses of people, to change their consciousness, to evolve their consciousness. You feel me from a capitalist, imperialist way of thinking or a colonized way of thinking to a revolutionary, evolutionary way of thinking. So I always say the podcast first and foremost, you feel me like really starting this in a shipping container, you know what I'm saying? And then going outside and seeing what we've seen and like, nah, we gotta make a change. We gotta make a change for the people, you know what I'm saying? But I think also like to our understanding of history and then applying that history into the current has been super important as well. Like if we just even think about our logo, you know what I'm saying? Like even like on the health clinic, it will be like free to people, free to land, you know what I'm saying? You got the people's programs logo. I've been out there doing security and people, oh man, that logo, nice, I resonate with this, man, y'all and y'all African, you know what I'm saying? Like so that actually like that just that visual, I don't know in the art world, they might say the visual landscape, you know what I'm saying? Like, but the, you feel me the representation of like the logo and how that like actually gets at people's like emotions that gets at people's spirit. But nah, I can get behind this. Yeah, I might not be feeling healthcare, but like I see you feeling me this logo. I see the free to people, I see the free to land. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. You know what I'm saying? So I'd say art has had like a very fundamental role in a way to where it isn't, I think, yeah, where it changes people the way they think without them even realizing it. You know what I'm saying? Like where it just becomes so like a part of you, like your brain is being able to understand it without even like having to think super deep, you know, like even when you go into the warehouse. So first thing you see is a mural. You know what I'm saying? We are our own liberators. So you might just see that head of times 150 times over, you know, a few months, like going in and out at the warehouse. Like that's actually having something on your psyche. Yeah. Nah, I'm gonna be my own liberator. That's a reminder of free to people, free to land. Then you see Malcolm up there. El-Haj Malik El-Shabazz, you see in Jalil, you see Sophia Bacardi. You know what I'm saying? You seen all these Kwame N Krum and Patrice Walumba. You seen all these inspirational figures as he was working. As you, you know what I'm saying? As he was working for the people, that's gonna have a shift in the way you look at yourself. But nah, like they looking at me, I gotta make this hygiene pack. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I think even that is part of it. And then, you know, going into the warehouse and you know, you always have speeches playing. That's a role of art as well. Consciously or not. Well, you listen to the speech. You feel me? You listen to this information right now and then you're about to go serve the people. You know, so I see it as a, even all the photography, like we have people doing photography in the program. You know what I'm saying? Taking photos and being able to use that and have those pictures capture the essence of the program, the spirit of the program. You feel me? Like even the art exhibit we put together, that's essentially was us all culminating all the different people we know within the program and within the community in creating the exhibit. It's changing the way people think. You know? The writing. People were reading and engaging in the writing. I'm like, oh wow, people was actually like standing in front and really, you know what I'm saying? There's one thing to have it up there, riding up there, but like to actually see people like reading it. Really reading it. And then something about, oh, hey, these are my favorite pieces from the, from the, oh, like wow. You know, so I feel like we was able to like, at the program, we've been trying to blend everything possible. We're going to take everything that people resonate with, even things that I might not even resonate with myself, but we know that it resonates with other people. I think that's the role of like cultural production is understanding the pulse of the people. And I find we've done a decent job of, since we amongst the people, we know the pulse. Yeah. And I think we've done a decent job and we need to continue to build that out. Like we say all the time, like they, the capitalist propagandists, they look good. They look nice. They make you want to buy into it. You make you want to buy into it. You feel me? And I think we're getting to a point to where the program and the art around the program is getting people to want to buy into it. The capitalist propaganda is so good that it makes you say against all odds, I will be that millionaire. Against all odds, I will be the one to, I will be the CEO. Now the revolutionaries got to create the content that say against all odds, we will get free. Against all odds, we will secure the land. We will get free. Against all odds, we feel to kick Afrocom off of the continent. Against all odds, we feel to unify all the different tribes, all the different nations under the banner of pan-Africanism. That's what we got to do to where it becomes that human nature within our spirit. Nah, it's just, this is what it is. This is what it is. We feel to make this reality right now and art has that foundation of doing that. Without question. It moves the people. That's why the Panthers, they was involved in everything. The Panthers had a band. You know what I'm saying? Like they knew the power of music to have to shift the consciousness. I mean, look at all that rallies that always had some type of performer. You know, we hit a free Huey and we hear the raises, money, we got all this stuff going on before the grateful there, go on, Bobby finna come talk. After they get off, Elgis finna get up on stage. Like they understood it. Bro, and then they brought it down to the classroom. Simple chance. Off the pigs, you have little kids singing that. Free Huey, they singing that in class. They ain't doing no pledge of allegiance. You know what I'm saying? But thinking about how those chants, how that art, you feel me transforms the mind into action. That's what we got to correct. Not just art, just to be like, ooh, wow. I mean, we got, we got black art exists. And that's what everyone was saying is like, bro, but if you talking about now like that, if you talking about doing stuff for social justice for change, then it needs to be directly impacting the people. Cause we got a million black movies, black writers, black directors, black musicians, but like what is that actually doing to change the material conditions of the masses of people? That's a fact. Oh, what is it doing? And what is these, you know, these singular people being integrated into a, you know, a capitalist society being able to change their own lives and maybe the lives of a few people around them. What is that doing for the masses of people? And it don't got to be either or. I mean, I believe art that is liberatory has to be tied to an organization. It has to be tied to a revolutionary struggle. Like art as itself as like an individual act, what is it doing? You know what I'm saying? Especially in like validating self. And is the true validation itself an individual thing? You feel me? Like in a lot of times art be used as a weapon it is used as a weapon by the neoliberals. I mean, you turn on the TV, if you talk about it right now, all the commercials, the music that come around or like all these like exhibits that popped up in like, you know, this time period of the uprisings. It's like black death. You know what I'm saying? Like that's the focus of it. Us dying or some shit. And that's like, oh, it's so powerful. Like what is powerful about that? But then these people leave or let's say even shit, you know, even, you get all these people into a room, y'all talk about it, but what happens? People go back to their regular life. You don't give them a way to make the change. Or it's falling into some bullshit nonprofit that's been running for 20 years and still ain't did nothing to decrease the police violence in that community. Still ain't did nothing to stop housings in that community. Still ain't done to meet the material needs of the people. And so we pushing, bro, do that. Yes, the art is very much needed, but we should be able to point that into some scientific process that actually is gonna show the numbers. All right, we able to show our look at breath. We leave here. We did 24 hundred yield. We yielded 24 hundred pounds of fresh produce. If we can get 20 y'all to come help, we believe we can at least double that number. All this fresh produce went to families in West Oakland in need. Look it, all you doctors in here, we did 36 clinics last year. We believe if we can get five y'all to sign on, we can double it. That's something, we gotta have something to point out to other than, yo, we got, we had the red carpet event. We had all these people pop out. It was lit, man, you feel me, man? Nothing happens though. Again, nothing happens to positively impact the material needs of the people. So we need that, man. How you feel that art can restore people's humanity? You know, and then essentially you restore people's humanity, how then can they make change? I mean, shit. We talking about art being, I see it like they connect, right? Art can influence and represent life. And so I think about, shit, I was recently reading The Spooker Side by the Door and it's a shame that it took me, I just read it as an adult, all right? Last month, damn it. I never read it either. Yeah. I may have watched the movie though. Movie fire. It ain't better than the book. Probably not. Not definitely not better than the book. I watched the movie, I watched the movie, yes, I turned it off. Don't have no, I'd rather read the book, yeah. Book is fire. That's crazy. Regardless of it being fiction. That's crazy. The movie great. Like in like, you talking about? Messaging. Yeah, okay, messaging. I mean, the editing, well, I also watched it on YouTube and like, you know, sometimes cause I was watching, I was watching the Battle of Algiers, right? And some, they have like different versions on YouTube where like some of the stuff is actually cut out or whatever, so I'm like, damn, I don't know if this is what's happening with The Spooker Side by the Door is like being cut out or whatever. You know, especially I try to destroy all the copies. I'm not on that, yeah. But the book is fire. I read that shit in two days. I was talking a ride by it. I was like, you know what? I read that in one day, I'm like, yeah, I sold it out. But that is a fictional book that I believe is impacting me in a way that makes me wanna be a better organizer. You know, so we talked about getting art influencing, representing both representing and influencing life, right? Even though a lot of these political theory books, I don't know if they would be classified as art, right? But to me, I take all writing as art just because I understand the process to be one of you taking something that exists only inside of you and putting it into a material thing. And that to me, that's art in every sense of the word. And so, yeah, we talk about our political education, right? We got a long list of books that we make people read prior to membership, post-membership, post-membership exam. Those things definitely influence the way that I live. Whether you're talking about Ujama, whether you're talking about We Are Own Liberators, whether you're talking about the Handbook Revolutionary Warfare, whether you're talking about Consciousness, whether you're talking about Sadah Shakur's autobiography, whether you're talking about Huey's autobiography. All these books have helped me make sense of who I am, right, specifically as it pertains to the damn near half of millennium new Africans have been over in this land and being subjected to all the ills and psychotic manifestations that this country can come up with, right? It all has helped me make sense of who I am, gave me, especially, shit, identifying as a new African and understanding the history of the Republic of New Africa where you got 500 people coming together in Detroit making that declaration like, nah, we free, right? Picking up the torch pass down by Ohazim Ali Shabazz saying that we need to take this to the United Nations, right? All this has helped me make sense of who I am, like actually giving me an identity. Whereas before I thought I had an identity, right? And it was really just the manifestation of a new African subjugation, right? But now like, yo, though, this is who you are. Then we went to the continent, then I just came back from Texas, visiting my great grandmother's hometown of Port Arthur. This is all just helping me make sense of who I am, right? The art being the catalyst, but then going and living the experiences. So I believe that art, it educates, it brings about an awareness and it gives you a clear, starts to give you a clear understanding of like what you can do, right? So like even the people, we was, let's use this example perfectly as how art was able to raise awareness. We went into, before we did the D Young, before we did the LA shows, before we did the Bay Area shows, we went into damn near, we do it in like 10 classrooms open, multiple schools, multiple classrooms, right? And we presented the film to the kids and we was acting kids like, all right, you know, we'll start the Black Panther party. You know, the first recruit was all these things right there, like, oh shit, being understanding that the Black Panther party started right here in your hometown, the first recruit was Lil Bobby Hutton, 16 years old, you never too young to make change. Like it was the art that was able to influence these kids. All right, then you had some kids and then we just had a whole classroom come to a program. We had teachers from the programs. It was the art that made sense of the reality around them. That's influenced the actions. They make you grocery boxes. Come on, right? Talk about power to the people. Come on. And if we never had a project like Tales of the Town, never invested like we did into it, it would have been very hard for us to even get in those classrooms. Cause now it's like, oh, we have a product we showing to them. You know what I'm saying? Everyone wants to talk about history to some degree. I mean, everybody can get behind a film. Everyone can get behind a film. You feel me? Versus like, ah, this podcast. Just the podcast. Or you know, we want to come in and talk and speak this radical ass shit. Nah, it's all right. The film, we're going to do the film and yeah, we're going to talk the radical stuff after and make sense, help kids make sense of it in a way that's accessible. You feel me? That's art in itself. Like us being able to not only make a film but then to be able to go up there and talk. That's a production itself. One of the things that I think one of the biggest art projects to probably come out of the new African community is in 1900, W.E.B. Du Bois did an exhibit at the Paris exhibition. So this is in the 20th century, they used to do probably post pretty 20th century as well, but based off how I remember it, they would have like these big world exhibitions, I believe maybe every year and it was just being different countries, right? And so in 1900 Du Bois, he did the one in Paris. And this is where like they would, each country would show like they are and like, I remember like the American shit was like Coca-Cola and TV. That was like the exhibition like an ice cream. Like, ooh, we ice cream, you know, one of them nigga they have black, they're like, I think the French, one of the exhibitions they had slaves and cages. You feel me? This is the 19th century, I think this is going on, right? And so in 1900 in Du Bois, Du Bois exhibition, he got all these charts, all these pictures combating all the anti-African racist tropes that have been presented by America. He's showing how if black people are exposed to giving the rate, giving the opportunity to read and shit, it was like, we read at a higher rate than the Irish, we get at a higher rate than these people. Then it showed, it was a, you know, at the time I think it was birthed like it's more talented, 10th type of shit, but still nigga it was shown like y'all talking about we all monkeys, we can't read, we can't do this nigga, here goes all these things we do. You can't deny that. And this is art, he had charts showing like all these, it's fire, bro. Like, but I think that's a, it was a an attempt at using art to highlight contradictions and expose truths. That's a win. And to get people to see themselves different. Like, if these niggas tell you, you do know that anytime you're given a chance to read, you learn to read, you do read better than these niggas. Anytime you able to do these are the things that black people invented, this is the contribution we make into the, you feel me? These are the rebellions that we had, and when you feel me, we was successful at that time. Look what history, we read that book and I'm like, oh, what the fuck? We done did this. Wait, we didn't deal, what? We done did this, against all odds. Come on, when you realize what you've been able to produce over and over again against all odds, then it makes us as the cadre in this present day with more opportunities to roam across the plantation, with more resources at our behest. Not saying that again, we dealing with a different system, right, you know, 70, 100 years ago they wasn't dealing with the mass fucking neurosis. That is a byproduct of the propaganda machines. You know, like all the buzz and deal, but still we got, when we hear Jaleel's story about being a solitary confinement, when you read George Jackson, you feel me like, how can you feel sorry for yourself? Everything like a speck of sand, you know? Compared to history or we can make a shake. You reject feeling sorry for yourself and then you, in turn, you turn to more pride. And that's what I believe, that's what we were trying to do. If anything, just install pride in our people. And again, install pride and also highlight some very normal, you know, like sometimes very too often is all of these like exaggerated, very Rompest, you know, like every day people is outside making contributions. And that's why I think Oakland's so beautiful and I'm sure every ghetto in America can relate. Like just show average person and do some great things to contribute to your neighborhood. And like we tell people all the time, if we gave somebody a camera, you're gonna look different for them. They're gonna have that different story. Come on. And that's the beauty of it though, cause it inspires people, you feel me? Like we talking to the kids and they're like, hey, ask your grandparents where they came from. You know what I'm saying? And then we talked to some kid, I was talking to one kid in the class, he knew everything. I'm like, man, that's beautiful. Like probably like seventh grade, you knew everything. You know, yeah, my grandparents from here. That's what happened to my daddy. It's what happened to my mama. This might happen to my grandma, but yeah, I know all this. It's my family here. So I just, I just try to do what I can cause I know what they did. I'm like, man, that's beautiful. That history is important. That history is important cause when you're able to conceptualize that, you feel me? Understand your past, understand your parents, understand what they've been through and then be able to put that to now. Then you keep going back and back and back and understand it more and more. Truth starts to, you feel me? Become even more clear. You know, you went from 280P to 4K. Yeah. So as we talk about, you know, people who just create art for the sake of creating art are people who claim to be represented masses of people, specifically new African people. You got new Africans saying, oh, I made this for new Africans to share light on our stories, to inspire, to motivate the people. Why if you make in declarations, why must you be amongst the people? If you make in declarations like that? Cause this motherfuckers who make these stories representing the ghetto, but they ain't been to the ghetto in years, probably only when they record the movie, the video, et cetera. Then they got a 30 person security crew, city permits and I'm gonna stop talking about that. But for real though. That's real. I mean, you can't make art for the people if you ain't around them. If you don't understand the heartbeat of the people, how you gonna make art represents the heartbeat of the people. Like the community is a classroom, so you gotta be amongst the community to teach the people. Otherwise, you essentially bought a drone from Best Buy and launched it from your house and started recording it with a bird's eye view and then you misrepresenting the culture. You misrepresent the people, which means you was actually leading them towards what? Neoliberalism, bad images of self-destruction, versus actually being amongst the people, understanding the complexity of the people, understanding the beauty of the people, understanding the struggle of the people. When you understand all that and you're able to tell that story from an authentic viewpoint, from a real viewpoint, people gonna relate with it. What about the folks who genuinely feel like they're doing the right thing, but again, are doing what you're saying, like leading people into neoliberalism? I mean, there's those who know, I would say. I think there are people who deliberately know that it's counter-revolutionary on purpose. Some people is just responsive to, they think and they're doing good. You know what I'm saying? But they lack a political education, then the neoliberal system comes in and says, okay, yeah, come work with us. So we're gonna give you this grant, right? And then the neoliberal system attaches hold on to them and now they's just doing it for the neoliberals. They's doing it for the capitalist class, right? So I would say for anyone who is an artist and saying they wanna tell the stories of the people, you gotta become educated as well. It ain't just enough to tell the story. You have to have the complete historical context as well. Cause if you don't have the historical context, how can you truly tell the story? Oh, what's happened in 2023? And why is the black pop, you just talk about, oh, if you only just talking about houselessness, like you ain't gonna get the full story. You feel me? So I was like having that historical understanding, that historical idea and then being able to put that into reality and understand that in your framework and how you make your art becomes a lot easier. You know what I'm saying? Like that's how we've tried to approach things. It's like, ah, we ain't doing nothing brand new. We looking at the past, we talking to elders, we talking to OGs and about, all right, how do we bring this into fruition? You know, to where like our media is actually, it ain't just our view, you feel me? As 30 year olds, it's an intergenerational story guided by elders, guided by the OGs who were telling us about Grove Street. You know what I'm saying? Like, guided by those stories that we don't know the same way, because they lived it. You feel me? So I think sometimes you have these academics come in and try and say they're making art in the name of the people. But they're coming in from J store and they journal, you know what I'm saying? They're coming in from these archives rather than actually being and living amongst the people to write about art, to tell the stories about art. I ain't doing it. So you gotta be amongst the people, amongst the people, with the people, struggling with the people to make good art. That's what I mean. That's what Emery was saying. He was saying, first off, the community was this first gallery, so now that his shit is being in the MoMA and whatever museums, he don't care, because the streets was his first gallery and he'd been, then was the people he was doing it for. And also like actually being out there day to day doing the actual programming, like, okay, he would go from a rent strike, or a rent strike rally to a city hall meeting, to the breakfast program to work in the clinic. It's like, bro, I know exactly how to talk about this shit because I'm living it. Not even, I don't even think it's enough to just be like, actually outside around the people, but you should be actually a part of the solution. Like the reason why we able to talk about these stories specific ways is because you out there doing security, right? Like you actually out watching the clinic. I've actually done grocery program. I'm pulling up to taking these boxes inside the projects. I see the conditions my people living in. So I'm seeing the real manifestation of centuries of exploitation. I know how to talk about this. Then I'm reading the book that tell me exactly how I got here, what mining company did this to do that. I'm reading what ships got us like, okay, now I got the full scope of this thing. I know exactly how this works. Now I can really speak to the social, economic, political, moral walls of my people, to the best of them that my very limited knowledge can attest to. That's where the trial and error come in too. You feel me? It's like, all right, we're trying to start in the community first. Is this resonating with you? And am I not? You might have to make a shift. You feel me? That's the scientific process of it. Yeah. You know, it's, yeah, all right, we amongst the people then we also, we figured out exactly what they need. How to make things accessible to them. You feel me? All right. So we all come in different, different understandings. You know what I'm saying? We make it all accessible too. It's important for art. Because if it ain't accessible, what is it? The just support revolutionary art. Hello. Like and subscribe. Comment on our YouTube channel. And if you ain't listened to Tales of the Town yet, get updated. Yeah, you actually, it's a really long story. I would say that objectively. I'm one of my own harshest critics. That's all I would say. It's pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. Hella Black.