 Thanks everybody. We've got a good number of people here. Thank you all for joining today and we're going to keep this moving. First of all, I want to thank all of GSAP and Lila specifically and to the also the public design commission for supporting this research and publication and event. And to Raul Gupta, who is an MRC student at GSAP who edited and assembled the materials and was in the original seminar, and as well to Andrea Tonk, who was the TA and is an associate in our office who produced part of the PDC's designing New York series with support of Columbia PDC and the book, which also features as we go to the next slide, contributions to our contributions from GSAP students in the seminar. So designing New York prefabrication in the public realm. And that's really our key tag that I want to focus on here today I'm going to introduce briefly and then we're going to hear from our guests and then have some discussion. This discussion, which was published and launched recently as a collaboration between both Columbia University and the New York City Public Design Commission is available as a free download we've got it posted here on our website. I mean in the chat I should say and also here, and it examines how prefabrication practices can be applied to small scale urban infrastructure projects to have, and here's what's important large public realm impact that's really what we're interested in here it also presents as current best practices for prefabrication and analyzes both technical and logistical nuances of these systems, in order to further understand their viability in New York so that's also a key, a key issue for us is that viability in New York. So today we've invited for designers from around the world, which is really exciting, who will present their projects highlighted in the that are piloted in the publication along with perhaps others and together with some discussion to further open up. The issues and the projects and the future of prefabrication practices in densely populated and expanding urban metropolises like New York City so that's also kind of our key lens that we're looking at. And this is all in order to meet our growing needs both in responses to climate change and coven are and we have some examples of that for public infrastructure, which are also addressing pressure pressures to expedite timelines and reduce costs which is always the case when you build so these are all projects that are built shown here in the image is a project on our cover by garrison architects. A New York architectural firm, it design is designed in response to super storm sandy. There were 34 flood proof structures at 13 sites that were built here is shown at Coney Island and others city wide waterfront sites. They were constructed in five months with one month installation and it had a lot of help from an administration that was very keen on doing this. We focused on recent developments that have evolved in the last 10 years. And one of our models as we began was the 2008. Exhibition and publication home delivery that's shown here fabricating the modern dwelling which was curated by Barry burgdoll of GSAP and Peter Christensen. There are many examples of houses and housing when you start to look at prefab and modular, but less so a public infrastructure so that's where really as our starting point kind of last 10 years public infrastructure. And I want to start by showing a few projects just a few that are in kind of key projects that are in the publication before we go to our guest and I'll just do those quickly just to kind of give us kind of more material here to think about. This Venice library and culture house by Helen and head architects in Venezuela and Norway was constructed on a very constrained urban site if you see it. It's really interesting. It was shown here is the some of the construction sequence and it's a glue lamb wood construction construction structural ribs that you see. What's really interested. Interesting is how those are then creating these kind of reading caves or shelving both so that the rib is the structure it creates the shelving it creates this reading cave. So that was one of our examples that we had used as a kind of exemplary model in our publication and then this Laquia auditorium by Renzo piano building workshop in Laquia, Italy. This is a very remote site, and it is a wood construction, a timber frame, and a laminate wood facade so all these laminates so you're not really getting the full effect but this is kind of in a in a really mountainous area, it's kind of up by itself so the thing is brought in as a total piece and then these laminate strips are put on the foundation was already there, or not already there that was obviously part of the first construction that you see in the first diagram so this is a kind of super interesting structure and then we have to show this project. It is a house it is a dwelling but I can't not show this project because it's constructed of infrastructure pieces that are kind of left over, let's say it's the hemorrhagoscopy and project. It's by the ensemble studio. It's in Madrid, Spain, made of precast steel and glass. Factory assembled for months. Big pieces brought to the site one month on the site for assembly. So this is like a small building trying to be a lot bigger than it is by being made of, you know pieces of highway infrastructure, which, you know, is incredibly cool I think this project in a completely other location site and climate in Phoenix, Arizona, called the power power parasol at lot 39 lot 39 is an existing parking lot, next to very large stadium where a lot of baseball teams practice in the off season by the De Polo architects. It is 217,000 square feet of civic shade. And it's both an energy generator and a billboard. The power tol has patented the connection pieces. It's made of a galvanized steel structure with bolted connections, and it allows for which when somebody thinks about something, you're doing something like this is how do you maintain it how do you swap out panels when they're not functioning. All of the 7600 photovoltaic panels that cover this existing parking lot for 800 cars can be serviced from below so that's a really kind of key element. Also in this design it's really really beautiful I've been there and if you go to Phoenix check it out. It's fantastic we need this in New York. I'm trying to get this in New York I'm not. I'm not having success yet I'm still working. This is a whole other scale, something that is constructed in five days in a site. In an existing kind of auditorium space paper partition system by Shigeru Bond and his voluntary architects network in Yokohama, Japan. Five day assembly on site, his cardboard tubes his paper tube construction where he's patented connections fabric. And so what is this it's not actually it's actually having to do with it's a coven response but it's not where coven people are. This is for people who this typically an all night cafes in Yokohama. They provide shelter for people of offering them couches computers and some showering facilities for people who stay overnight at an affordable price with the surge of coven 19. We've already shut down these cafes leaving people homeless so Shigeru's voluntary architects network came up with this system to house people who are temporarily dislocated from these cafe spaces which is I think incredibly cool. Also, and you may have seen this is I think was in the New York Times, but it's not in our book yet but we want to put it in our book is public toilets that there was a competition in Tokyo for comfort stations in public spaces specifically for the 2020 Olympics. And this is a controversial design that one. I still don't know if it's going to be actually constructed this is one that is constructed. It's using a tinted smart glass wall which creates transparent effects when it's not in view. I don't know if this is working if if we click on this or if the next there it is so it makes translucent goes from translucent to transparent with this electrified glass. And Shigeru's comment is that, you know, everybody can see how clean it is like who wants to go into a public restroom when you have no idea what it looks like do I want to open this door. And so you can see inside before you actually go in which which is incredibly cool. So, those are our examples and I want to introduce Rebecca Maklis, who is our my partner in crime here on this whole project and Rebecca Maklis and she was a she is a senior urban design manager at the public art commission in for New York and she's going to tell us a little bit about that and other things that we do there. Thank you Laurie and thank you GSEC and for having us and everyone in the audience for carving out some time in your afternoon. Firstly apologies is local law 11 happening outside my window so I'm going to keep it brief for the noise and to save room for the discussion. And so I just want to provide a little bit of background on the design commission and are designing New York initiative and effort and how this research into pre fab fits in to our work and charge and partnership with you that so as some of you may know GSEC is New York City's design review agency and so we review hundreds of projects a year ranging from large scale mixed use developments to small public infrastructure projects like kiosk or street furnishing permission is to advocate for innovative sustainable and equitable design of public spaces and civic structures across all five boroughs with a goal of improving the public realm and to support one NYC and the administration's goals and to provide guidance on how to meet high design standards with equitable and economical urban development. CDC launched a series a few years ago designing New York and designing New York quality affordable housing was our first in this little series that we have going on and it was focused on affordable housing and presented design guidelines and case studies advocating for cost effective and site sensitive approaches to holistically design quality affordable quality affordable housing excuse me. I'll go through all realize I owe some links in the chat so I'll share links to our prefab publication to download into that in the chat later. And so designing your prefab in the public realm is the second in this series and as Laurie mentioned, the research started a couple years ago in 2019 with a seminar that Laurie spearheaded and thank you very well and Andrea and also the students are really leading the charge on this work. We realized the design commission that we were seeing a lot of city agencies really pushing in a critical moment to develop capital projects but you know with mounting pressures of reducing costs and time and all these things that Laurie was speaking to and so prefab and modular and flat pack and these methods were really popping up in our project review more and more starting in 2018 2019. So, I design commission we thought that we could use the designing New York series to kind of take a proactive approach approach to start navigating defining showing art for the capital agencies and with capital agencies what is possible for the non traditional building method. As an agency were committed to working creatively within the parameter spacing public works whether it's a small kiosk or large citywide solution for solar infrastructure as Laurie was saying we're pushing for prefab for solar infrastructure for some of these projects with differential projects just so great. And although housing is so critical and in prefab as an industry is really being pushed with the affordable housing market and housing and hotels. We really wanted to use this body of research as an opportunity to focus on programs in the city civic portfolio that emphasized public realm enhancement and what community benefits could really be achieved through these non traditional building methods. So now more than ever amidst COVID amidst the budget crisis compounded pressures, you know, even more so to reduce costs and timeline and even control construction environments in the pandemic and in safe environments. The city's embarking on design build as well. So we really want to learn more about how prefab can have a seat at this table and be a tool for quality design. So I really hope that we can dive into this all in conversation, just a final plug we're developing our third designing New York series streetscape for wellness. So stay tuned somewhere on that and I'll also share that in the chat. So I'll hand it back to Laurie. Thank you and we'll kick off the presentation. Great. So as Rebecca mentioned, we, I think one of the things when this all started we saw this horrible trailer that was going into a park in Brooklyn it was so I was so upset it was so sad. And the, I think the city councilman really wanted conversation in his park and you know we're all very sympathetic with that but you know why can't we have good design when we're when we're providing something very quickly because we all know these things. Once they get there they don't go away very quickly. Right so they end up staying for a long time and and I think every borough in the city deserves exemplary design and we that's one of the things we're really here to promote. For really exemplary designers here today which is, I'm really excited about so I'm going to just introduce them when they speak but we have Ronnie Marcus and co founder of human habitat. Today as principal of Brute Deluxe. Aratola co founding principal with Giuseppe Lagnano of Lotec and Carlo Ratti of Carlo Ratti Associati. So, and I know that Rui Guan, who is a 217 G. Alarm is going to present the work first of Carlo Ratti, he's an associate designer and design lead at Carlo Ratti Associati so we'll start with with been with Ronnie Marcus and co founder of human habitat. And just to give a brief intro to them and then I'm going to turn it over to you, Ronnie. They are a design built studio based in Copenhagen and New York. The firm embraces cradle to cradle philosophy of design and production products in that, what does that mean. At the end of their life they can be truly recycled, or upcycle that's another term will probably hear emulating nature cycle, where everything is either recycled or returned to the earth directly or in true indirectly as food. It's a completely safe non toxic and holistic sustainability so that's really their agenda. The firm engages in the circular economy, revolution and is committed to creating ecologically vital and socially vibrant communities so when we were searching we were really so keen on on, you're going to see their work and I'll hand it over to Ronnie we're so keen on what they're what they're doing. I'm Ronnie Marcus and I'm from human habitat. And this is my presentation. What are the best projects we can decide to improve our cities right now. And how do we build it in the most effective and sustainable way possible. Obviously there's not just one answer to these questions. I'm going to present to you a small scale farm we did a few years back called the impact farm. In 2019 I moved to New York with my business partner to study urban farming in a big city content. Our ambition and our intention was to learn about the benefits of growing food in the city and create a project that would bridge architecture and urban food production. In these years we are witnessing a rapid population growth, a dramatic rate of urbanization, accelerating climate change and health issues. Our food supply is a large part of the challenges we face in the world right now. And so it must be part of the solutions to. In all major cities around the world, different organizations and small businesses are responding to these challenges by growing food and creating jobs with social benefits to the local community. One of these organizations is Harlem grown in New York. Harlem grown is a nonprofit organization founded in 2011 by Tony Hillary, and their mission is to inspire you to lead healthy and ambitious life through mentorship and hands on education in urban farming sustainability and nutrition. They operate local farms in Harlem and have created garden based development programs for elementary students. They have transformed 12 abandoned lots into thriving urban gardens, ranging from soil based farms, hydroponic greenhouses and school gardens. Urban farming is much more than just growing food. It's a way to possibly impact the entire community through mentorship, education and partnerships to create sustainable change. Harlem grown story is truly inspirational. And there are people all over the world who are making a positive impact in their local community through urban gardening. So we asked ourselves the question, how can we help organizations like Harlem grown through design and architecture. We wanted to create a small scale urban farm that could be that could easily be implemented into the urban landscape. The design had to successfully combine ego effective food production, along with a social space that could be used in all the amazing work an organization like Harlem grown are providing for the community. We came up with the idea of the impact farm. It's a two story greenhouse built around the shipping container. The whole project is designed as a pre fabricated flat pack farm, where all of the component fits into the 20 foot shipping container. The ground floor issues as a social space and and there's a technical area in the shipping container. And the upper floor issues for growing food with a vertical hydroponic growing system called sip grow towers developed by US company called bright aqua tech. One of the key element that one of the key design features relevant to this conversation is our construction methods that is designed for disassembly. Most urban gardens around the world are developed on borrowed land where there can be a limited time frame to operate on them. By addressing this issue in the design process we were able to create an urban farm that can be used both as a permanent and temporary structure. This approach has many benefits both in construction but also from a sustainability point of view. One day the materials used in any project will have served its purposes and from our current way of thinking become waste. Designing for disassembly means that all materials can be easier repaired, recovered and reused. All of our cities today we see old salvage materials being used for interiors in coffee shops, cafes, restaurants, etc. What materials are we leaving for future generations to use in their projects? I think it's important to have that in mind when designing and building any project right now. In 2015 we built our prototype of the impact farm in Copenhagen as a temporary structure with a lease of one and a half year. During that period we held different food events and attracted visitors from all around the world who wanted to be inspired and learn about urban farming. After the lease was up we disassembled the project packed it in the container and stored it until we can find a new spot for it. The project later got funded to be upgraded in design and in technicals things. It was built at a local school in Copenhagen and it's now been used for educational purposes. After we had built the prototype in Copenhagen we got commissioned by Harlem Grown to build a farm on their new lot on 127th Street in Harlem. We had learned a lot from the project in Copenhagen both in terms of how the farm operates but also how it was put together. All of these upgrades got implemented into the new design. We used a 3D model and we created a 3D timeframe with a step-to-step guidance of how it was put together for the local contractor. The project got prefabricated at a local art factory in Copenhagen. All the materials were packed in the container and it was shipped to New York and then it was transported on site. After the arrival of the container the farm got assembled by a local contractor. Since all of the building's materials were prefabricated off-site the whole project was put together in less than three weeks. One of the huge benefits with this building method besides time is that we didn't create any waste materials on the building site and there was no adjustment to the prefabricated building component. It was simply a matter of connecting the different components together using balls and screws. Since the farm was completed in 2018 it has produced food year-round. All of the food are being distributed to the local community for free. It has been maintained by a farm manager, the children, families and community members who come together to learn and work with Harlem Grown each day. Through this pilot project Harlem Grown hopes to present a viable model for replication that can help to increase access to farm-fresh produce throughout lower-income neighborhoods in the urban landscape. Harlem Grown's vision is to transform this space into an innovative urban agriculture center and green oasis for the Harlem community. Thank you. That was my presentation. Thanks so much and it gives us things to discuss as we go forward. This is Richard from Brut Deluxe. Brut Deluxe is, here he is. It's an architecture and design studio based in Madrid and Munich. It's an extremely interesting model. So we saw one model there where they're in New York and Copenhagen, two people working, bring the project from there. Really a hybrid practice. I'm going to call you guys a hybrid practice. They're focused on, and this is to quote you guys, the investigation and creation of space and its atmospheric qualities. You'll see why. So their projects engage in a huge range of scales of urban intervention from ephemeral artistic installations, industrial design, construction design and urbanism. And also those components in urbanism, we could say in cities. They're truly a multidisciplinary team. If you look at their website, I haven't seen many firms that have that many disciplines represented. They have architects, okay, check, but they have artists, graphic designers, structural and digital engineers, landscape architect, art historian, anthropologist and historian. They're all engaged, depending on a project's objectives, as I understand, in the design process. So Brut Deluxe combines both scientific and artistic strategies in their creative process. So I'm going to hand it over to Ben. Thank you so much for coming all the way to Columbia. Yes. Thank you for the invitation. So I'm Ben Busse, I'm the head of Brut Deluxe. And I was asked to present one of our urban furniture pieces, the Kiosk M Poly. It's a direct commission by the city of Madrid, and it's a Kiosk for temporary street markets. And when you think about like typical structures that are used for temporary street markets, you usually have structures by wood or by textile structures, and they take like one or two days to set up, and the same happens once the street market is over, you need another one or two days to disassemble them. And the premise of this design is to have ready made Kiosk, which can be brought as one piece on site. This by transportation directly gives us a dimension of two by three. And when it's closed, it's sort of box with this gabled roof, and we call it M Poly in reference to the board game monopoly, which is sort of you have these house pieces, and this one sort of remembers those pieces from from from the board game. But then, sort of, we have this one big element to open up the facade. And when it's turned, when it's flipped open 90 degrees, it's the element protects from sun and rain. And when it's open 180 degrees, the house converts into a house with a chimney, and at night, like a big billboard. So we did a lot of testing also with the possibilities of the layout schemes on the different squares you could have on sites. And the interesting part about this project for us as designers is that we started at the same time with the construction drawings, and we had a company to set up a mock up in one to one scale. So this is like our first drawings to, well, define the geometry and how it works and it's basically a one space unit so it's rather defining sort of a little bit detailed work. And at the same time, the fabricator started with this mock up by which you can see here, it works a little bit like a car chassis actually. So it's you have this framework and it works together with the metal sheets to give it stability. And while this goes actually quite fast, like after two, three weeks, we have something that already looks quite finished. And as a designer, we noticed that like at this point we have two big challenges. One of one of the challenges, the opening mechanism, which it sounds sort of easy to flip up an element 180 degrees but it's actually quite difficult. So we started drawing an element which sort of pushes this open, this works with a motor and like a screw or drill element and pushing it up with sort of like, well, I don't know how the mechanism is called this work, but it did create some tensions on the element. So finally we came up together in collaboration with a company and with mechanical engineers with a system that works with two hydraulic pistons. One is pushing up 90 degrees acting on this arm. The other one is opening up the element 180 degrees in the end. And the second big challenge of this project is in contrast to the very abstract and architectural form. We wanted a very delicate and finishing for the facade. And it was clear that we wanted metal sheets. This works good for vandalism and it's good for recycling as well. So we took this mandatory drawing and made sort of an abstract pattern, which is then applied on all the facade elements. And this is only possible when you work in collaboration with the fabricator to make those tests and experiments and when you have a large number of units. So here you can see like a prior state. This is actually like the car chassis with all the, this is the waterproof element, which goes as a whole block into an oven. And is weatherproof and the insulation is applied on the interior and the facade is coming afterwards. It's like an additional element. This looks sort of finished, but this is like with the placeholder for the facade. And for the interiors we choose an adaptation of the commercial system to be able to exhibit all type of products you might want to show there. And this is the finish mock up when it's closed. It looks very abstract. And then this element turns lifts up like 90 degrees and 180 degrees. And this is the final element to push this up. And, well, I think sort of, we focused on the finishing material, it's cortine steel with this mechanically pushed in pattern. The cortine steel starts to oxidate after a while and gets this beautiful pattern. And as Laurie said, so we are very interested in the atmosphere and we like this image very much of the expectation you create at night what might be in such a small hut. And then at night it turns into something very different like a billboard effect. Well, once we had sort of this is we we had finished the whole construction design and the mock up and we showed it to the city of Madrid. And, and this, yeah, that's like the first element finished. And then we we got the contract to build 275 units. So that's when actually sort of the fabrication process starts. And you have all those elements at the same time. There's still a lot of optimization done and experimentation because we do an execution project actually of each sheet. And when we saw this, where we started again, sort of with variations like the interior colors we, we have eight different colors for the interiors that's very easy to do. And this is all at the fabricators site for pieces waiting to get transported on the truck to Madrid. And when we saw this we also asked the city of Madrid to apply different state materials. So we, in the end, we have also this stainless steel elements which of course transforms the perception of the piece completely. And with these mirror effects and the rain on the facade. And we have black lacquered pieces. This is easy to do because the facade mass material, as I said, it's just like it's easy to change you apply it afterwards. This is brushed aluminum. So then the whole sense of this is to be able to to transport the pieces on the truck and would be able to to reassemble a street market just in two hours at night. And in just a round just have to plug them in. And well, if you think about like the appearance, the perception of typical street markets when they're not in use. I think at least it's sort of very different from the installation we did for those pieces in in Madrid and this of course changes completely when they open up and sort of the product takes all the the protagonism as that's what is wanted. And this project. Well, it's, it's a little bit older. It worked fine during five years and then we had the financial crisis. The city of Madrid bought these 275 units, and they had a contract to for the maintenance and the setup. And what they were the financial crisis they didn't have enough money anymore so they terminated this contract. Now the, the chaos are placed in public schools, public sports facilities and public gardens, parks, etc. And they're just used as some storage items. So that's a little bit like buying an expensive car and not having enough money for the gas. But they just sort of sit there and they're used to store the pool items but it's still a beautiful car. So, some of them look a little bit shabby but they are almost indestructible. So probably they will be there in 50 years. And some of them are kept really nice and you, when you come to Madrid, there's really a lot of them and you just, you will cross one for sure. Well that's sort of the presentation for for today. Thank you very much. If you have any questions later on. Okay, thank you Ben. It's so cool to see, like an expanded development of it and it's afterlife, so to speak. Okay, great. So, I'm going to also now introduce Adatola and of low tech low techs known I think you all know out of here at Columbia GSAP for for their innovative work specifically with the standard. And the first project, the second part the first I at the ISU shipping container and low tech is known for its innovative practice and specific focus on this specific shipping container, which is really to me is just an amazing thing to that they have devoted their work to this and the amount of creativity that it has expanded into in their commitment to working with this I'm calling it the ready made and like the Duchamp sense of the ready made for their practice they've explored and adapted this, they say durable, flexible and of course incredibly sustainable object because they're not going away they're piled up all over the world to architectural applications. This stellar example of upcycling extends the life cycle of these already manufactured objects and expands the potential of existing systems and explores the futures of legacy platforms. So in their design for cultural institutional projects and residential houses and housing with this component I think they've just exploded and it just seems an unending proposition which I'm really excited to have here. These are the experts of the shipping container and they've also proposed architecture out of the ready made such other ready made such as cement mixers I hear an airplane fuselages. I'd love to see those out of other ready made. We're extremely fortunate to have a data Tola and you said be lignano as faculty at GSAP and add is here today to join the conversation. Glory, I'll share my screen. So, I would like to start with an acknowledgement to all workers, and also for the indigenous lands we occupy a quote from joy are Joe, a writer and poet laureate of the mosque a geek rick nation that I really really love. And she says, in reference to sustain the need for artistic expression. I believe that if you do not answer the noise and urgency of your gifts, they will turn on you, or drag you down with their immense sadness at being abandoned. In low tax case, the word is upcycle. We start with upcycling because of the shipping container, or we start with the shipping container because we must upcycle. We begin with the 320 square foot of perfect court and steel enclosure, which will drag out of its back of the house anonymous and exceptional global network into specific new uses new massing new spaces. Because we begin with a volume existing and heavily used before we claim it, we work and have always worked offsite as well as on site refabrication has been with us from day one. I will start by showing you the witness studio, the witness studio up cycles six 20 foot containers to squeeze into the Whitney Museum Brewer building molt on Madison Avenue, and be occupied as a space for art education and art to making a single operation on the assembly slivers the cube diagonally generating windows and skylights and a double height within. This is the beginning of the offsite work. It begins with selection and then with steel modification. The containers are modified in a shipping container facility in this case in New Jersey, conveniently closely located, painted black in this case to best interact with the existing Brewer building, which we love, and then inserted with great care into the tight mode of the museum. In the offsite on site split logistics are part of our work with design and device the how to all the way. Here the building going inside the the Whitney mode, which was quite complex the building is a landmark, the witness a landmark building. And we had the set of lawyers from the building inside right behind the window watching the assembly which was quite exciting, but we have to device the system of tracks so that the containers could be positioned and slide down below the county receiver, and right next to the bridge of the existing museum. And all of this to say that some of the technicality for us are complex but also very inspirational. The building in its final form and the idea of its kind of mute presence that is both interacting and revering the existing building, and how it looked from the inside of the museum providing the glimpse to the activities within but also in dependency, and then the sort of surprise of the interior space with a double height and white background for art making an art exhibiting. So when the Whitney move downtown, the building was donated to Socrates culture park which obviously is possible only because the structure could be disassembled. That's what Ronnie was saying also about moving his parts. And the Socrates requested a design expansion that could include a larger art education and exhibition areas and some some administrative spaces. We designed the cubes which starts from the witness studio and repeats it three more times to equal volumes and one open and ghosted volume for outdoor use. The building is located right at the entrance of the park will be located right at the entrance of the park to the right on this kind of niche amongst trees that are right there lifted to respond to flooding. And I want to shift your attention to drawings, both as a technical and artistic expression, which for us is a really important overlay. So our construction drawings that to be reconceived as we started working with containers from the onset of our work to include a sort of container schedule or a catalog of each container that had to be coded and drawn through all its sides. This is the portion of the drawings that goes to the fabrication shop to the workforce they will be in charge of offsite construction. This is the proper prefab and this is where knowledge includes also a lot of structural and fabrication knowledge. And I want to bring this up because precisely because we work with containers we actually had to invent a new form of prefabrication or sort of construction technology. And this process require the real knowledge share a deeply collaborative attitude that working with manufacturers on one end and engineers on the other. And what we asked manufacturers, and in particular on the trails of the big American industrial might. We asked them to engage with projects that in stark contrast with the more repetitive setup of their work routine are instead unique challenging and different. And what we asked engineers instead on the opposite end is to engage their incredible knowledge to this very elemental application on a simple volume or box. Considering its infinite variations and iteration. So the projects rely on this very tight team to allow us to transform this box or boxes as we all operate within existing carbon footprints from design to engineering to manufacturing and back to design. Shifting attention again in all of our projects the connection between the technical and the expressive is a very important connection. And as we produce drawings to understand how to be most efficient and now to not waste anything. As we say how to kill a pig and use all its parts. We also ask ourselves can a drawing be prefabricated or how can we prefabricated drawing how can we make a drawing that is very close to the work itself. The follows the same logic, the logic of the object, rather than the object the logic of the white sheet or the white screen. The material selection and the conceptual and physical operation of layering cutting removing in our case. Here you see Puma city which was a particularly complex project because the building it to be assembled and disassemble multiple time at 11,000 square feet of space. And the drawings that we did very much to explain to the trades how we did that. And ended up also being the drawings that represent the project is drawing is right now in the momma collection and on the momma walls, very proudly for us so please go see it. So the, again I want to highlight the importance of this connection and also look at these projects for their larger scale. And then one last thing I want to go back to home that we just completed that is really a prefab at a bigger level because the modules in this case where completely retrofitted and is an attempt for us to systematize some of our knowledge. So this is a single family home that comprises six fully transformed shipping container units entirely retrofitted prior prior to the delivery, you can see the kitchen just been deployed with insulated walls windows appliances and fixtures. And see home is a pre designed system that utilizes repetitive spatial solutions and details at different scales to offer a variety of sizes and configurations. This is the house at is, as it exists and is inhabited right now. And I want to conclude just saying that for us. While to prefabricate is really to fabricate before. I would argue that our work is also a sort of fabricate after and maybe they will attack does is post fabricate, or that we even am fabricate. Which is not the same as dismantle, although some dismantling is always necessary, and not just from a fabrication standpoint. Fantastic. We're going to conclude because I see some questions popping up to with Carlo Ratti, Carlo Ratti Associati so we one is going to present. Oh, there's Carlo you're here. I've been I've been here listening sorry I am Ruiz Ruiz based in our New York office and also he's a Columbia University graduate so we should be there because they couldn't. I was just a bit late in the beginning so it was good for him to be there and we you could take some of the questions if you want. Okay great so we're we yes we're really excited that he's a 2017 GCEP graduate and so that's fantastic I don't know if he speaks Italian too but he's a designer and design lead at CRA. So just to give a brief introduction for Carlo Carlo Ratti is a professor of urban technologies in the urban studies and planning program at MIT where he directs this sensible city lab there it is. Carlo Ratti Associati is based in Turin Turino. He's from Italy and also New York City in London. And the office is currently involved in many projects across the globe with scales ranging from product design installations to architecture and urban planning. The office explores the intersection between the natural and the artificial in the built environment offering often leveraging digital technologies as part of a multi disciplinary mission to innovate in the urban landscape so I'll turn it over to you and thank you for coming to Columbia. Thank you very much Laurie it's a great pleasure you know under normal condition I would I would be there with you in person I've been many times and I loved it every time. Now I changed a little bit my presentation also after seeing the beautiful presentation by Abba. So I wanted to start by sharing with you a project we did actually during the pandemic at the beginning of the pandemic you know at the beginning of the pandemic. We were all asking ourselves what can we do in order to actually contribute our skills in order to help with during the crisis. So we certainly you know it's always had a project called Cura, which is connected units for respiratory elements. So call it a change the way we work. That's for sure. And one of the interesting thing is that we started sharing much more, you know during the crisis we started sharing much more these are some colleagues at MIT did this kind of event project in open source and then people started using open source even companies like regular companies commercial ventilators here you know companies such as Medtronic one of the leaders in ventilators decided to open up design specs encode for free to all. And so we were inspired by this and we were thinking what can we do well you know people focus on different things but one thing is for sure. This we're talking about last March, but unfortunately, this is still true today, we must expand ICU capacity world. And so we started this in an open source way the amazing thing is that you know this was just at the very beginning we immediately got a team that grew to over 2000 people involved in the community helping to design this. And our goal was you know is there anything we can do in between the two weeks, those things so you see something can be deployed rapidly. It would be easy to scale up would be responsive and agile, but also would allow to have a bio containment inside one of the tragedies we've seen across the planet is that a lot of makeshift hospitals you know we're quickly mounted. But then you know they didn't have by containment so a lot of people got sick and got covered at the time. And your by containment is done by actually creating negative pressure and putting very special filters so you can negative pressure the means that all what is inside the container which is inside the unit doesn't go out. And then you take air out only after serializing it with special filters, you can use ozone filters you can use eepa filter very, very special eepa filter and so on. So anyway we started with this design this was the first version how we could put two. I'm physical units with by containment, and we decided to use containers I mean that's why I added the project after, you know, I know others work very well, we also make ones at MIT. But so I, we said your containers can leverage an amazing infrastructure for building for making for moving around the planet from shipping. You know, one problem also is if you don't use modular structures very difficult to move things from one city to another city. What we know now about covered is really that the front line is switching from time was in Milan went to Madrid went to New York, you know then one city after another city so you want to be able to move things fast so this was actually the first projects with containers but it turned out to work very well you see here, the plan is you can see here the initial design of the section for the initial design. You can see here the exterior and interior of feta and you know an image of the inside with all the components that's really too intensive care units in a container, you know, very super quick to mount. In half an hour you put the container you connected to power in the other power if you had your things and, and then you can also move it very, very quickly. And then you know you can do different configurations you can do an annex to a hospital like this with an inflatable structure in the middle you can do a field hospital as you see here, you can also you know make it bigger if you if you need. So it's a great configuration but you've got many others. Now the interesting thing is that you know we started this in March and just in a few weeks we had one built. And that was also thanks to the sponsorship of a major European bank called unit credit. And they believed in the project so we had the first one built and installed actually in a real hospital which you see here is a real hospital. Inflatable part that you see the inside and some of the images of the container you can see actually to the left you see some of the other of the other banks in the hospital. And the interesting thing is that you know all of these dimensions that in open source. And so then we started seeing still today there's people all around the world using the drawings and for fabrication some of them changing things. Some of the initial prototypes we saw some initial units we saw you know coming from all over the world people taking our drawings adapting them for the conditions may be changing a few things here and there or the color. And you know again this happened with the purchasing in the UAE is in UK in Italy in Greece in the US in Canada. One of my favorite was actually company in Canada, and the main business of this company is actually to produce containers to grow marijuana. But they decided during the pandemic actually they would download the drawings from Cura and instead of doing containers for marijuana with containers for ICUs intensive care units. And here you see again you know this is another company who's been doing it in in the UK very similar to the one with prototypes are really copying everything. We hear the story was two four was probably two or three phone your first of all. Well, we know that today we can fabricate without modularity. The good thing about today is that we can really digitally fabricate that the module but sometimes modularity is still important. You know, if you want to do something you can move around, they can use the infrastructure we have in in our cities on the planet, you know, ships and so on. Car goes, then modularity is important. So the first one we want to make is that, again, even if today we can have, you know, think about Katara. We actually started a similar company in Europe, you know smaller customer company, but you know we can fabricate whatever we want without modularity. But sometimes modularity is important. And that's what we learned with Cura. Now the, the other thing is that open sourcing becomes very interesting. And you know, open sourcing creates a system where more people can work in parallel, and also you get a lot of feedback groups, you can really speed up the design by open sourcing. And that continues when you start building, you know, people were building and, you know, sharing information, there were some groups of Reddit. Constantly is probably still on. I haven't given check in recently, but we know for sure that many companies that are fabricating right now using our drawings. And so open sourcing is interesting. I wanted to make an analogy here. And it's an analogy between the artificial and the natural world. You know, if you think about it, the values is code is code that replicates in the taxes. I'm talking about Kobe but every virus and so on. And you know, in the same process of code, the code of DNA that then replicates is what is the print is the principle of, you know, natural evolution. And if you do open source design, then, you know, we're taking similar approach is opening up the code of intelligence, the code of design, and then together, we can replicate much faster and fight. We would never have been able to do this. You know, this is a setting just a few weeks, we went to the first product that prototyping probably three months and where people fabricating this around the world. Well, we could follow a standard system, you know, a standard process, which is, you know, you design it, you maybe you patent it, and so on and so forth, you know, the same thing would have taken at least a year. So somehow, you know, by sharing, we can, we can be much, much faster. And the final thing is about feedback loops and a third point to mention about feedback loops and feedback loops are the key things that happen in nature, you try something, you see the feedback, you know, that's what determines if a design in nature is successful or not. And by design, what, maybe I want to say, you know, by the code of an organ. And well, the same we can apply to design by doing this we can really open up to the feedback groups in fabrication allows for this. So anyway, the principles open source design I want to share with you by the way I did a book on open source a few years ago actually the whole book was done in in an open source way with different people contributing to it, from Jonah Bracken to Joseph Grima to Paul Antonelli to Nicholas Negroponte to many others, Hans-Henry Goebbels. But if somebody is interested, he came out with tanks and hats on a few years ago. And basically a principle of open source design, you know, share first, no patenting and competition is good. It's not bad. Anyway, so next steps as well as we're looking at this for the longer term. By the way, so the global south needs cura, more cura still today. And so how can we help them scale up and use the drones. Now, following this, I want to share with you a couple of other experiments. And in these experiments, you use actually a similar approach. As I said before, you know, today we don't need to be modular, but there are some cases when you want a little bit of modularity. And there are some cases where you want to apply another principle. It's actually a principle that was developed by a person who I think was one of the great designers and theorists in the past century by Dutch architect John Bracken. You know, John Bracken in the 1970s really worked a lot on how we can involve people more in self application, or what Enso Mari call auto fabrication. And, well, you know, his idea was in a nutshell, he's much more sophisticated, but in actual is, you know, as an architect you want to provide a framework, and then you allow people to build inside a framework. So you want to give them like a structure, and then they provide input. Now, this is a very simplified way to summarize John Bracken's approach, but you know, just just for the sake of conversation to talk about this much more if you want in the Q&A. And as I mentioned, John Bracken was one of the authors of the book we did an open source design a few years ago. And so I want to show with you very quickly to project one is called Living Board. It's a commission from a non-profit in India. Non-profit is called we, sorry, not we work, we rise, and we rise wants to provide housing to a lot of people who today live, unfortunately, in very unhealthy conditions in urban settlements. And so here the idea was, well, how do you do it? How you provide a structure to them in the basic conditions and here again we use a similar approach to the Habracken approach. And we called it Living Board. It's similar to the Matter Board concept you've got in electronics. So we said, well, if you go there with an element that you can fabricate before, you know, you put it on the land and then you allow people to build their home. And you put it on the land, but it's also important because India has been devastated by a few earthquakes recently. And so if you can insulate it from a seismic point of view from the ground, then you could all the expensive, you know, things there about services, and then you allow people to build whatever they want above it. And you see it here. So the Living Board is what you see at the bottom. It has a few extensions that you see there. Also on the top if you want a good photo, it takes clearly. You need to go to the roof, but basically allow people to build the shell they want. And you see it here. Just, you know, you put this very simple foundations, it depends on where you are. You're getting a seismic insulation, and then you build the top of it. And then you get something like, you know, where you allow people to then make changes and personalize and really do what they're doing today, but making sure that they get the main standards for living. So that's the first one. Actually, that happened more or less in parallel to other projects where we use a similar approach. Again, inspired by the idea of structuring infill, that's an equally treat on the Himalayas in a beautiful place. Very close to Darjeeling and Kalimpaung. Just, you know, you've got beautiful views of the Kanchenjunga in Eitaz and Miedermountain in Sikkim. The same one that you see from Darjeeling, where the Darjeeling tea comes from. It's a beautiful place with these, you know, waterfalls and tea gardens. And here it was very similar. Again, we wanted to involve the local community to have a building. We didn't want to do this, fabricate the whole thing in, you know, in Mumbai or in Germany, in Italy, and then chip it there. We wanted to involve the local community, but at the same time the local community doesn't have all the skills to do, to get to the standards that the client wanted to get. So again, we said, okay, so we fabricate part of it, and that's a frame, and we allow the infill to be produced locally. And again, by involving also local designer, local people. So again, with open source in the design, providing initial design allowing this to change. This is currently on site, is the previous one. And you see here, you know, some of the possible configurations for this. This was inspired by a lot of the local materials in the region next to Kalimpong. It's not up in the mountains, so even if it's India, the weather is very nice, but during the winter can be a bit chilly. You know, the weather is beautiful in January, February and so on, but it's a cold season, and so that's why you want to have a fireplace as well. It gives you some of the outside, you know, these panels are what is fabricated locally, but also with many variations. That's kind of our initial suggestion, but that's what allows them this to be configured and redeveloped by sharing the drones. We would share the initial drawings, and then the locals would both fabricate and fabricate with variations. And we really like, you know, especially when the weather is very mild all year round, be chilly during the winter. Yes, there's a bit of rain, but really the house becomes this kind of very subtle and gentle skin, you know, this almost like, you know, when the lights are on it almost looks like it's made by paper. So you don't need to have thick walls. That's what the locals do as well with the houses they fabricate, you know, use wood and you try to produce very thin surface to protect you from the elements. So anyway, those were some of the things I wanted to share. Again, you know, the things to the key points I wanted to make are about, yes, you know, fabrication can really be very exciting in many contexts. We can fabricate today with that modularity, but sometimes modularity is important as we saw in Cura. And then don't think about using the same system for the whole house. If we open source, we can both open source design, execution, the modification of the design. And then in those cases, it seems to seem to think about how we split different parts, maybe a more standard frame that is fabricated, prefabricated, and then infill, which is, you know, delegated to other people. So anyway, there's what I want to share with you. I think I've run out of time. No, it's perfect. We are we have, if everybody hangs in there are those who can we wanted to spend about 20 minutes or if we can 1520 minutes on some questions for the panelists and then open it up and I'm going to start with one that I'm going to combine with one of the questions that we received today. So, I guess, to start off, I think odd is there maybe she's there somewhere anyway. So, how has using these systems in the public realm, positively impacted both the public, the public and the process. We then also touch on some of the misconceptions or negative misconceptions and positive conceptions that misconceptions positive aspects that are lesser known so how have how have the systems in the public realm positively impacted both the public and the process in public in and process. Right. Well, you know the misconception is one is very simple right to the container as a stigma for sure. And right now I would say almost it has a double stigma because when we started in the early 90s we were beginning to see shipping containers and therefore the biggest thing stigma was the idea of it being this kind of low objects right that that doesn't maybe want to belong to architecture that belongs to something else. But I think that the, the second tier is also the fact that now is really the, the item that symbolizes our global economy. So, it has also this added layer as this sort of like background object that we all recognize that that is really the the mule of our economy is the thing that is doing all the work in global economy and so in a way, I would say that the most important thing probably is precisely the shifting attitude that I always advocate for the fact that by using ordinary objects. What we are trying to do is first and foremost to allow us as humanity to look at the things that we make concoct invent engineer and understand ways to to think of them through their potential, not just through what they are so to be able to create things with different eyes and I think our practice tends very much towards that so it's an idea of, you know it's interesting one of the conversation that was very much there to also the other presentation with was this idea of how can we reduce waste. How can we reduce waste locally, but for us is more how do we reuse waste. So it's even more central is the idea of, we are surrounded by these boxes and I always think of our work as a work that builds a legacy. I think that I hope that what we will leave and this goes also to what Carlo was saying, what we will leave is a set of drawings and samples and sketches and the many projects a very large scale very large scale that we haven't built. They will stay for humanity in the future to try to understand what to do with this huge amount of steel boxes that are around. Great. Other. Any other comments responses Ronnie. Right. Well, well during this whole process that we've been, we've been, when we've been doing this farming project. We've only noticed from a lot of people they could that they could see this kind of solution happening. Many places in the world and we have been ever since we did the project we have gotten responses from all over the world that people want this in their, in their local environment. And I think for us using the shipping container they've been able to see that even though we been miles apart from from where people are living that they can still kind of solution being implemented in their place. And I don't think we would have succeeded in that if we didn't use the shipping container in our in our storytelling in what we've been doing so for us it has been a very positive experience from everybody in terms of, in terms of prefabrication. I think somebody else was, was Ben starting or. No, with a Carlo no, no. I mean, like the biggest advantages about prefabrication actually as a designer is to be able to experiment in instead of the typical process where you just design and then you bid and it's built. You collaborate directly with fabricated you can you have a quality control you can test you can instead of a one directional process you have a process where you're actually sort of testing during months and getting optimization of elements. Of course you have like the waste. You see when it's prefabricated, you can disassemble it, and you can, you have a much better waste control. So for as a designer. I, it's, it's not like prefabrication is like an object in itself, but it just facilitates a lot, a lot of things during the design process. Yeah, building, building on that it just a quick thing is, you know, certainly if you want to move to a circular architecture, we need to fabricate, we need to fabricate because then we can have all the elements we know what they are in the same way we assemble them. We can't disassemble, but the other thing I want to mention it's quite interesting and I might inspire some of the people that say, you know, we're very interesting converges we were not aware of you know we we've been working recently with two colleagues, good friends, with Anton Garcia real was a colleague at MIT and also the founder of ensemble studio we just finished a project in in Europe together, and also the TV one from China was teaching the US and the interesting things that we don't know. All the three of us build a factory is in the next to the office. So you know we got another big factory but a place we can use digital tool to fabricate you know, five or 10 years ago all of us would have like you know a 3d printer in the office and let's say laser catering with the model started making models inside or even 1010 years ago or more, but you know that was the became the know everywhere and five years ago. And I think now you know if you take that you scale that and you know scale it up and think the biggest one is Anton's one has this kind of beautiful factory he he he built in next to Cambridge hours in Italy, Philippines and Shanghai, but basically it's really a that same thing scale that in that really as you just mentioned it allows us to test things first, you know to build more circularity because we can check new assembles new assemblies of material, and certainly I know that the way we'll be at home, 10 years from now is going to be much more you know everything is going to be come from factory and then we just mounted perfectly magically, thanks to the guidance of a digital model. Was adding to you, Carlo I think it's super interesting idea that we can use or like set up these kind of factory network, both in US or in China we can start with these kind of outsourcing design approach and fast reproduced all the these kind of either cura prototype or other kind of prototype that we can let the world know that all the, all the factory can produce in within a certain timeframe that we can contribute to the world either in the midst of COVID situation or other other situations. Actually, that perfectly kind of leads into one of the questions that we kind of had repeated from the audience about Lori and I had shared about earlier, which is, what does, you know, we're talking about a lot of what prefabrication you all define it in your own ways which I thought was really interesting we, we, you know, in the seminar, one of the first things we did was had to define it for myself like what is prefab what is flat pack what is modular what's the line between it being a component of the typical design bid build process versus this new less traditional method so one of you could I'll speak a little bit more of how you define it for yourselves and then also speaking to the process and what it enables and really you're just talking about what it enables in a factory setting and process that you know thinking of the public design commissions charge and hat, what do you think that that then allows in the public realm that perhaps the design bid build, or more traditional model would wouldn't allow as easily to kind of give back and enhance more effectively the public space. Long question, sorry to from long question. I guess, I guess, like prefabrication definitely is quicker and possibly much more kind of accurate compared with traditional building methods. And sometimes it means easy for changes and fast reproduction. And, for example, success, successful prefab or modular project can be duplicated to many other areas and so enables more kind of equitable potential for the public realm. I think the cure out project is the perfect example for that. I'm also gonna second the idea of the obviously the, you know, efficiency that is both time and quality control, which is a very important thing being someone who practices in New York and having been practicing in New York for almost 30 years. I would add that I think that that's what I was also trying to stress in our presentation that the, the very tight connection with fabrication with who does the work is a very important thing and that means that I think about the kind of networks around a potential project where does a project exist and what are the networks of fabricators around. And in that I think that in New York, the bidding process is, I mean this also to respond very much to your idea of like, what are the difficulties, the bidding process that instead wants to be an open process that creates a little bit of a crush with the idea of instead precise relationship and precise knowledge. So I think these are the things that one has to tackle with especially working at public at the level of the public realm and public projects. Yeah, exactly. In my opinion, like prefabrication is so widespread that it's actually just a question of up to what grade you prefabricate. And it's usually it's limited by transportation, nothing else if you look at current buildings. Like, like, most of it is prefabricated and it's just assembled in a way sort of that you can transport it on the street. So, on the, on the other hand, sort of if you the concepts or miss, miss conceptions you have usually architecture is understood as like site specific and everlasting. And this goes in contrast to prefabricated or what people usually understand for under prefabrication when it looks prefabricated usually it's understood like temporary or like less, less quality. And if it's, it's absolutely wrong, like you can prefabricate in a very high standard or even in higher standards, and probably even if, if authorities would introduce like a requirement for waste management, we would have the entire building, like prefabricated because it definitely makes it easier to disassemble. So, and it's, it's, it's rather when you design. It's rather a question about sort of how up to what grades do you introduce sort of your, your prefabrication in building structure or in the prefabrication, or in your own like perception of the building, the more you reduce the less materials you would use, the more the easier it is to make it prefabricated. Okay, I was just saying, do you think the line now is so blurred? Is it an outdated term and kind of bundling that in with the other questions? Yes, Rebecca replies that we think we're using an outdated term. We think we're using an outdated term and as I think Isada and others have noted. I think, I think what some of your, your work and, and, and what some of these have to really contribute to is to actually get a better terminology because what was mentioned now is totally right. You say prefabrication that goes back initially to the modular by the corbusier, and then to all those experiments that failed, and they failed precisely because it were low quality. And the flexibility for that go neither to the environmental condition nor to the living conditions inside. You know, somehow we're talking about something different now, maybe you want to call it factory fabrication and that's you know that you can do something the same things you can do and you can do that, even more flexibility in terms of variations, and you can do a much higher quality. And let's face it's the only way to be circular. There's no industry. You know, if you think about traditional construction is the most, you know, the less the least optimized interesting when you, you make a wall and then the next week you've got people running cables and knocking down parts of the wall and then you got the game people coming to fix the it's just a mess the way things are built on site. We know it. There was a report by BCG a few years ago that we looked at the level of digitization of different industries. Construction was together with hunting and fishing at the lower at the lower. So I think the only way we can digitize be precise and be circular and create really amazing buildings. Is it we go if we embrace factory production. So somehow, you know, I think I think what you could really help also with this discussion is really get the right terminology because sometimes people get confused. Yeah, absolutely. Are there, are there key roadblocks I mean, I was speaking about it about here this briefly but that we didn't touch upon in the presentations has the design process and roadblocks changed recently I think Carlos speaks about and and re speak about kind of working kind of dual locations. You know what is changed what what additionally has changed because this is all moving so rapidly and I think people have preconceptions obviously about what prefab is we use the terms to kind of bring people on board but then we want to take it apart. Right, to really say well what is this today. You use a roadblock. I mean I usually very sympathetic of unions but in New York they're blocking a lot of this. Yeah, I know they had to do lots of cartwheels to get around that for some of the, the housing and also for garrisons project I don't know Adam has run up against that in terms of because you have who hooks up the plumbing who hooks up the electrical Yeah, but part of it is exactly that that this idea of this share because there's a moment where you have to bring the responsibility right in this onsite of site. You have to drop the responsibility in the ends of somebody else. And that's a critical moment of course and it requires a huge amount of collaboration so that that's that's complicated for sure. I just wanted to say a little bit in response to Carlo and Ben that yes to the factory work as we can, although I was highlighting the issue of network because I do think that transportation is an issue transportation impacts the sustainable aspect of the work so it is not just transparent I mean it is not just irrelevant is very very relevant. And that to me is I want to also give a little bit of pushback because, you know, I know we're talking about New York and New York is the very first word so we're all happy to be here but have you worked in South Africa. I can tell you that ideas of prefabrications are radically different and skills of making and technology of transformation are radically different. And part of our task I think is also to understand how to respond to very specific conditions, not just to go top down. Because we enter realities that have their own richness, and there is an exchange every time we intervene. Right, I totally agree. Maybe building on that not, you know, location specific but you know, quote in the midst of this pandemic of talking about how can prefabrication respond. You know, Laurie and I were talking before the event of, are there now new ways that we can push both New York and others to go more towards realizing the potential of prefab and modular in the pandemic you know are there pros that we can speak about of front loading certain aspects of the design kind of delaying others that allow us to optimize in, you know, in this pandemic condition. Do you think that's a next step and a potential. Is this specifically a question for me. Yes, I mean, you know it's interesting I showed us the last project the house, although it's a, it's a residential project and is not a public project but it's interesting because it's a project that is getting a lot of friction for us right now, precisely because of that because it stands in this place where is is both pre designed but also is very customizable. And I think that there is a real interest right now for people to enter exactly that place where something is not totally done but it, but some of the thinking has already been being pushed ahead so. So yes, I think absolutely so. And since many of you teach, I just want to wrap up with this and be mindful of the time and we've been trying to incorporate some of the questions that are coming here on the chat. But since many of you teach and we have a lot of students in the audience through an educational lens. How can students be pushing the envelope on this topic. So, you know, how would we think differently about this are we thoughts on that I am going to say very quickly, as you know, having been in school in the same school under the same school roof for many years. I'm a big advocate, a big advocate for the fact that students should really try to understand what their personal interest and intention is a mission in a way. So, I think it's very important to expose students to other means and other ways, and to let them really consider what it means right now to practice and not to just default to default modes. I leave it there. Let me say very, very quickly, something very trivial spend more time in the fab lab you know I learned a lot of this when I was a PhD student that they might be in the very first fab lab that Neil Gershwin did in the basement of the media. You know, if you if you're able to manage it in the fab lab in a smaller scale. You know the same thing you can manage is just a bigger machine you go from a from the small laser cutter to a big router to cat. And you know CLT cross line in the timber but it's really the same thing so very simple just you know spend your nights in the fab lab. Great. I agree with Carlo I think spend time making not just on your screen. That's a huge lesson. Yes, not talking making not talking. Okay, anybody else here. I have one. Yeah, well so since we did the whole project ourselves from from start to finish. So so we did all of the way when we started designing the project we knew that we had to build it at some point. And I have a background in carpentry. So I knew that at some point I was would have to stand and put everything together. So so that helped me a lot in the way that I needed to think about the project. And in terms of how things were put together. So I think it's a it's a it's a good thing to have in mind when you when you're designing is that at some point you have to give the drawings to to somebody who have to build it. The simpler you can construct things and the simpler you can start with taking things apart from each other. The better the better end product I think you can get out of it. So, great. No, no. Okay, I'll end and say thank you so much before four and five for presenting your incredibly inspiring work to all of us. And you know we I always say we want to make the world a better place, you know we're incredible optimists is architects I mean we're internal optimists. I'm just, you know, so appreciate the work you've done and I know it comes with a lot of labor. A lot of extra labor. Thank you. Very soon in person. Yes, please. Very soon. I'm not a good note. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks so much.