 OK, well, I'm going to get started now. So if people join us, then they'll catch up. So today's topic is ethical uses of race and migration data. And this really feels like a topic it would be great to be in the same room for, because people will have questions coming up as you go along. So to kind of facilitate more and more discursive approach, if you do have questions, when they pop in your mind, put them into the Q&A. And I'll try and pick them up as we go along. So I'll try and answer questions related to what we're talking about as we go through the session. So we're looking at ethical uses of race and migration data. I'm going to cover topics, but I suppose one of the reasons for really thinking about this is that census data gives us this kind of fine-grained analysis of place and race and migration data. And it can therefore have more potential for use. So first of all, it would be interesting to see what your research is. So just put in a few words describing your research, your area of interest. And we will start to see things. So again, go into that menti.com if you're not already in it, and start typing in. As you can see, we're beginning to run for a couple of minutes more. So house right there in the middle of it, participatory research, then lots of other areas, refugee migration, gender-based violence, mental health, climate change, intellectual disabilities, maternity experiences, life course, race and housing, which is probably where I would locate myself if I typed into this. So across a broad field of the social sciences, so far from all the responses you put in. So hopefully, we will have some opportunity to think about how that might relate to the area you're looking at, maybe some of the examples we use will help us with that. So thank you very much for that. I'm going to move on now. So just first of all, thinking about types of ethnic and migration data. So how do we classify ethnicity or race? We might go on phenotype either way we look. So if you think of the way the police collect racial data, they decide on it on the basis of the way we look. So our racial or ethnic classification is done on that basis. That has been quite common in the past in public services. We might look at something around racial origin, cultural affiliation, language, or nationality. And maybe if you're involved in the medical aspects of research, we might look at DNA and come out with these fractional parts of races that we have some affiliation with. So there's a number of different ways that we might think about classified by race. I should apologize, maybe, or not. But my focus has largely been on the UK context. I'm very happy to talk about other contexts. I probably have less of an understanding of them. I think it's fair to say that ethnicity and race as concepts are quite related to place and time. So they mean something in Britain at this moment. They mean different things probably in other places. And they've meant different things at different times in this country as well. So then thinking about migration and how we think about it, we might think about contrary of origin and birth, in the sense of sedate and age of arrival. We might think about generation, which we don't capture in the census, but some of the survey data we have goes. And I think in the American census, they have used that. And we might use those specifications then to look at differences in attitudes, behaviors, experiences, maybe intersectional characteristics. So we're not just interested in race per se, but in race as a structuring feature alongside other structuring features. As I said before, if you have any questions as we go through, just pop them in the Q&A and I will try and pick them up as we go along. So I think we have a particular kind of challenge in the context of ethnic data this time round. And I put these figures up to kind of show that. Okay, so I've got a question there about using race and ethnicity. I suppose I kind of struggle to be clear about what I mean in terms of general presentation like this. I think it's about the purpose of the research I'm doing that they would make me say I'm interested in race or I'm interested in ethnicity. So what I wanted to look at here was the way we have changed how we categorize ourselves. So the top white groups have shifted slightly. So less British, less Irish, probably no great surprise. When we come down to Gypsy and Traveller, behind this is a very low level of self-reporting. So estimates of that population are around 300,000 and that's been a fairly stable population estimate based on other sources of data. Yet in the census in 2011, we saw around one in six and this time around one in five people. Romer is a new category and white other has grown quite significantly between 2011 and 2021. So the question that comes with that and some of the other areas of growth, particularly the other ethnic minority right at the bottom is this happening because people are changing the way they classify themselves rather than the population is changing, growing or shrinking. And I think that's the kind of a really big thing with that use of the other ethnic minority category here because it's grown, it's nearly tripled inside. So a very significant difference. So there's a kind of thinking a bit about how these categories are not necessarily fixed. Okay, so the next thing to think about is why do ethical issues matter? So I know that some of you are at different stages and ethics is like a hurdle that a lot of people struggle to get through. I know last time I did one and I've got to do my feedback on that research now, it felt like I was filling in a thesis, 25 page form and it came backwards and forwards a couple of times. But generally what we're trying to protect in that ethical process is the individual subjects of our research. And that's quite appropriate. We should necessarily do it. But what I want to focus on in this session is the risk of creating collective harms to groups. We get some of that around disclosure control work but generally it's less thought of. And I think it for me, it reinforces the ethical process as an integral part of the research we do. So I'm just going to set this up now. Now this will take a bit of time because you're gonna be asked for each of these. But what I'd like you to say is what kind of harm might our research lead to? So I'll go through those as we're looking at them, sorry. That should be appearing on your screen if it's not, let me know. So is it might it lead to violence and harassment to unfavorable treatment? To fear of engaging with authorities, a lack of trust in the system, to discriminatory laws or practices and to a lack of confidence to an internalization of other kind of feeling of inferiority, something that people talk about quite a lot. I'm not sure what those percentage points were. Anyway, so it does look like lots of people can see potential harms in these. And I suppose I'd want to pick out three things really there. So one is a direct harm. So if we look at coverage of asylum seekers and then we can see that being associated with attacks on places that people are living in and hostility to neighbors. And that's kind of clear from a media effects, a media reporting of things that leads to violence and harassment, potentially to unfavorable treatment in accessing servicing. The kind of rhetoric of the government leads to more discriminatory laws and practices. So as somebody who works on race and housing, I was kind of amazed at the idea that's getting rid of tents with somehow addressed homelessness, but that's the logic of the person who made that statement. And then the last effects are internal ones. So a lack of trust or a fear of engaging with authority. So a few years ago I did work with Gypsy travel communities in London. And it was quite clear that their engagement with social services and police was largely about enforcement rather than about seeking support for issues they faced. And the second is not translating to a general lack of confidence in ourselves and in our ability to present ourselves. And that's very common when you talk to people about employment, about work, that it's probably not worth me applying for that. So I don't sound chance to get in that job because I don't fit in that kind of environment. For many people that kind of goes with a whole set of experiences. But those are common things, but to pick those out. So there's the individual treatment. There's a structural discrimination and there's the internalization of that racism. So thanks, that looks quite significant though I don't know what those numbers mean. Probably should have read off on those. So why does this matter? Well, for me, I suppose it matters because I want to minimize any potential harms from work I do and I would hope you would share that. To develop our practice when using data on race and migration. So it's a kind of a strange field, isn't it? It's populated and I've got a couple of examples by quite conflicting views about what it means. And lastly, to embed that in the way we practice our research to think about it at all stages of the research life cycle. So some examples of things and it's amazing how quickly news disappears but last October, there was release of the RNS data on migration and where people were coming from. And it showed quite a lot of Albanians and then that was picked up as a press release but the people coming on the small boats into the UK were the majority of them were Albanian and at the same time as that happened, there was severe overcrowding in the migrant processing centre at Malston. There was a lack of spaces for people to go to. There were people being dropped off in hotels, in cities they didn't know with no guidance, the spread of diseases and so on. And that was a kind of a media storm that I suppose has spread into the narrative about the boats coming into the UK without particularly significant evidence, I don't think. So it was quite small numbers. The Albanian government were very upset. The outcome of that is they've set up a processing centre and agreed that they will deal with those with criminal records by deporting them back to Albania. The second one was again on the basis of the ethnicity data released claims by Nigel Farage that London, Manchester and Birmingham had become minority and what this shows you is that of the white groups they were a close to majority in all of those and the ethnic groups were quite diverse across that. And then the latest, which I'm not going to take very much further, but the assumption that the rallies in support of Palestine and against the bombing and calling for a ceasefire are hate marches, feeds into a kind of dichotomy of opposing views, which I don't have the sense is necessarily the feeling on those marches. And I think it's that kind of set of narratives that then lead into policies that then lead into something else. So I think in the promotion of this I talked about the prevent program, which was funded based on the number of Muslims in the census. So I'm going to move on to thinking now about the research life cycle and you will all possibly have your own models there are various ones around. I've gone for a fairly simple one. So at the beginning of the process, we think about what's the focus of our research, what broad area we're interested in, a bit like the sound cloud we had earlier. So if I was asked I would be saying I'm interested in race, migration, housing. And then I would begin to focus down that scope to where I wanted to look at it in what context with what materials, et cetera. The next thing we generally do once we kind of got our focus clear is to think about what we know already. So the literature of you looking what people are saying and kind of trying to synthesize that and identify the gaps in what we know already so that we can justify our research. And then the next stage is to get into the detail of that design to collect and prepare the data to move into analysis and reporting. I'll come back to this question later on, distinct definitions for race and ethnicity that you use in your research. And I'll point you to a result later on where you can have a look at the way that other people talk about it. So just thinking about the research focus, generally we use structural classifications like race, like ethnicity, and like others like social class, sex, et cetera, to understand differences, differences in outcomes, experience, attitudes, and behaviors. And in terms of the kind of research focus we take, we might think that this is an example of individuals. So I think somebody mentioned life force. And I think if you kind of take a life course approach, you maybe think about the curious of advantage and disadvantage that somebody has. So what they experience or their attitude are formed to some extent by what they've been through. And on the other hand, and these aren't kind of opposites where you have to make a hard decision between them. It might well be somewhere between these. You might think about social structure. So if you, like me, believe that there is systemic racism in the UK, then you would be looking at structural explanations of that. And you would be thinking about structural ways of doing that. You'd be thinking about maybe the racism in particular institutions and the kind of processes you might need to do to challenge or change those. You might also be interested in kind of a temporal dimension. So a lot of research and particularly census research is going to be looking at fairly contemporary questions. So I've done, I suppose, a reasonable amount of work with policy people, and that was my background before I came into the academy. And a lot of policy work is really focused on the contemporary. So what's the state of the city of Manchester now? How can we make Manchester fair? Those are the kind of questions that, in policy terms, people in Manchester are engaging with. But on the other hand, there is a whole set of things around historical experiences and the kind of social memory they give. So why do I make decisions about certain things? Well, some of that is relying on what other people tell me, a collective memory. And some work I'm doing at the moment on housing in my side is looking at that kind of historical perspective. So people have an understanding of the housing situation as part of a long journey. And they pass that on to people around them. So that kind of collective memory sits there as a memory of a place. And my side, for those of you who don't know it, is in Manchester is a particularly stigmatised racialised place. It's been associated often. So when I was a TA at the University of Manchester, I'd regularly ask the question. And the answer was quite often, I'd be told not to go to my side. So thinking about that kind of research focus, what kind of classifications do we want to use? So I suppose that the kind of goal standard for me is to ask people how they define themselves and how important that is to them. Often in the question, we're given a tick that box answer. In the census, we also have the ability to write in things. So thinking through the classifications we want to use to get at this understanding of difference by race, ethnicity, migration is kind of quite important. I'm thinking how that may have changed over time. So for many people that contemporary, we have a particular set of understandings of ethnicity. But if we go back 50, 60 years to listen to other people's experience, that was quite a different experience. And it was quite linked with journeys that people have made with connections. So for example, my mother always saw herself as a citizen of the British Empire. She always regarded herself as fundamentally British. She was born in India. She moved here when she was in her early 20s. And I don't think that view ever changed while she was in India. She believed she was British. While she was here, she believed she was British. And I think that kind of subjective thing is possibly the best way if we have the freedom to explore that in the ways we collect or look at data. And I think I want you to highlight here and I'm not going to read these out, but just to highlight the challenge of engaging with very contradictory literature. So on the left-hand side, we have Matthew Goodwin, a professor of politics who tends to come from a fairly right-wing perspective in terms of migration, in terms of where he sits, literally in the kind of interventions he made. On the right-hand side, we have a bit of an article from Gary Yong, a professor at Manchester, previously a Guardian journalist, and it clearly takes a very different perspective, a class-based anti-racist perspective. So when you come to dealing with that literature, you have to navigate your ways through it. And I think the important thing here is to think about what your positionality is. This is not an agenda, I think, that you can easily assume is going to be neutral. There is some objective reality. This is based very much on emotional attitudes to things. So your positionality in terms of the way you interpret literature and being transparent about that for other people who will read your work is probably pretty central to thinking about an ethical approach to this. There are differences between using primary and secondary data. There's quite a lot to think about, about your theoretical framing. And I think to say this, particularly for those of you who are newer to research the PhD students among you, there is a tendency, and I'm as guilty of it as anybody else, is to have a scope that is unmanageable in the time we've got. And also lastly, to think about how you're going to operationalise those classifications that we've talked about already. And I think these are areas for dialogue, for working with others, for thinking about what other people have done. And they probably will make a big difference to what you produce. And this is an example that I mentioned to the question before. So there's a recent book which you can get free as a download. I think I can show you the screen with it on. So it's a policy press book, Racism and Ethnic Inequality in the Time of Crisis. And I'm pointing at it, particularly around data collection because they did a really good job of reaching out into communities. But for those of you interested in the dimensions and how we describe race and ethnicity, that again, this is a useful resource. This is a kind of thought through way of describing this. And I suppose it's fair to say that this book puts racism at the centre of its understanding of inequality. And the survey was conducted 2020-21. It's available from the UK Data Service. If anybody has any questions about that, I can put links in for that later on. There's also a teaching data set being developed. But hopefully that will give you the response of a kind of considered response on defining ethnicity and race. So I think when we come to surveys, we have a lot of issues. So this has been, for me, challenging when I view survey data. My work on housing started using the English Housing Survey. But the amount of responses from ethnic groups is very small. And I think there's some issues there about the sampling method, whether boosting is introducing response bias into the types of people who come in, the kind of coverage in places. And an example here is, as I said before, the Egyptian travel communities really low rates of responses for some groups. So going back to that work on evens, the team worked with a group called Friends, Families and Travelers and probably have the best data on gypsy and travel communities that is around in that kind of secondary data mode. And I think one of the kind of issues that arises because of the small numbers of some ethnic groups is our confidence intervals become quite large. So we can't reliably say there are significant differences between groups. So the census gives us a massive thing that they're not that many outcomes with it. In much of the survey data, we are very limited. So for example, I've been doing some work with Greater Manchester who are interested in employment and use the labour force survey to try and understand ethnic differences in employment outcomes. And couldn't really get anywhere below a kind of regional level analysis with any robustness for the ethnic categories. And largely would rely on using national kind of headline messages to kind of use as proxies for what was going on in Greater Manchester. And surveys have that kind of issue in both in terms of place but also in terms of the number of categories used. So typically a lot of surveys will crunch those categories down. They'll combine the Asian categories but from all of the evidence, the outcomes for Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshes and Chinese are very different. And I think an important kind of testing round is here. You're following on from lots of other people. So do they reflect previous analysis? And if not, why not? And I'm kind of steering clear a little bit of the really contentious stuff you might get into. So the kind of that's rooted in Tottenham's idea that diversity led to lower levels of generalized trusting communities and that diversity was therefore a bad thing for them rather than deprivation or debate and speaking about that. So I think if you're in that kind of space analysis, you clearly have to be clear about your position and see what you get in terms of whether it's what you expect to see. But there are contradictory analysis on the fields we look at. So I'm coming to the end of my presentation now and I think I hope to animate this. But this is another example from Evans. So the first questions for you are what are the key messages you want to expand and how might they be interpreted by others? And on the left-hand side is an article written in The Observer that kind of creates... I didn't think it was very good because it kind of took a point of it's not black people who really have problems. It's Irish, Jewish and Traveller people. And actually what it showed in analysis is that racialized minorities, ethnic minorities experienced more racism. Not a surprising finding that those levels of racism were different from different groups. And we see then a couple of weeks later a not very well thought out response from Diane Abbott where she's saying racism is black and white and uses her historical perspective to reflect on that. And then finally that leading to her suspension and heterogeneity and difference within that community. And some of those outlines might be about caste, they might be about religion, they might be about the path of India that people come from. So to go above that and to kind of amalgamate that with other groups who have very different experiences, I don't think tells us a lot because it just doesn't. So I suppose my answer is if I'm doing research on what I would call race or ethnicity, I want to get into the detail. And if the data we've got isn't good enough as is evident from a number of surveys, then we need to develop better mechanisms for collecting that. And I know that's on the agenda for ONS in England and Wales. That is on the agenda for the Centre of the Dynamics of Ethicity who ran the even survey and they are proposing, well, they've got a bid in for another grant to run and part of that will be running a second survey. Okay, so well, thanks very much for coming. Before you go, the last slide asks you to do the feedback in Hoover. So hopefully you will be presented with that as you leave. Thanks again for your participation. I hope you found it useful. And as I said, please feel free to contact me.