 Hi everyone, my name's Damian Mitch from the Australian Dental Association and Board Member of Aussie. I'm here today with Sarah and Andrew. You're watching 6DA. Hello and welcome to another episode of Six Degrees of Association, the only online TV show that's dedicated to the pursuit of association success. My name is Sarah Gonzalez and I'm from Redback Conferencing and as usual I'm joined by my co-host Andrew McCullum from Association of Corporate Council Australia. Welcome. Thank you Sarah. Good to be here. Well I shouldn't say welcome, otherwise it's like you're a guest, right? And you're my co-host. Yeah, very close-out. But it's good to be here all the same. Excellent. Once again we're delighted to welcome another special guest to this episode. Today we're joined by Damian Mitch, Australian Dental Association's CEO. Good day guys. How are you? Good to be here. Good. Thanks for joining me. Good to be here. Thank you and also, director at Aussie, we can't leave that bit out. No, don't forget, Aussie. No. It's great to have you here, but before we get into the difficult questions, we're going to kick start this episode with, da-da-da, thumbs up, thumbs down. So let's hand it over to you, Andrew, because I think you've got a ripper for us today. Thanks Sarah. Well, a thumbs up, a very worthy thumbs up, I think, to Aged in Community Services Australia. Recently took the very bold step of becoming a truly national association representing the full purpose, we like that term, aged in community services industry. Look, this would not have been a simple process, bringing 70 staff together, six different officers under one national banner. But no doubt the board took the decision that this will is a positive step and it will result in the organisation having a stronger voice on the national issues, surrounding aged care and community care, very important issues they are, and obviously delivering more for their members around Australia. So we're very well deserved thumbs up for me. And your thumbs down? Thumbs down, thank you. You know, I think our industry has a membership problem. And let me explain that a bit more. Several weeks ago, I attended a day-long seminar put on by Aussie on membership marketing strategies, and what struck me about this was the people in the room, and this isn't a criticism of any of them, but you know, they're all doing a bit of membership, but they're all doing a lot of other stuff as well. They're doing communications, they're doing operations, they're doing advocacy and so forth. And, you know, every association out there wants more members. I think we can all agree on that. I don't know why association does, but we're not investing in the professionalism of a membership function. You know, we'll employ advocacy people, we'll employ communication teams, we'll employ standards officers, and we will employ somebody who's going to sit there on the phone and answer questions and reset people's passwords, but we're not investing enough in the membership function, but in the professional membership function, I think, in association. So, a little bit disappointing, a little bit surprising to me. Damien, do you think in your experience that we don't really take it as serious as what we should be? Look, as someone who headed a corporate services department that had membership marketing in it and had a new CEO come along and say, look, this needs to be a division in itself. You know, my ego took a dent, but it didn't take me long to realise that you need professionals in those spots, and we undervalue professionals who are in the marketing space significantly. Some of the greatest stuff we did was once we got professionals involved in that organisation. So, I completely agree with you. I just think we undervalue professional expertise in it. Thanks, Damien. You can come back again one day. Yeah, and if you talk about marketers like that, you can come here even more. Wonderful. So, time for mine. What have you got to say? Okay, time for mine. Thumbs up. So, Australian Retailers Association. So, I always see Russell Zimmerman, the executive director in the media. He's at the forefront. I always, he's so passionate about what he does, and I love seeing that from a director. Back in February, I'm sure we all remember the decision made by Fair Work Commission to reduce the penalty rates. And, of course, it was all very negative. Everyone has something to say with it. But what I really liked about it was he actually stood up for something that he had been fighting for, along with many other associations for the past two years. And he also made the situation seem not so dire. So, the way he spoke about it, it was about the facts. They surveyed 600 people. They communicated the facts in terms of the percentage drop that people would be getting who work in the space. And he also really outlined the fact that there'd be more opportunity for younger workers, and also that it will enhance the customer experience when we actually go into retails and stuff like that as well. So, the decision, I'm not saying it was a thumbs up or thumbs down, but I'm just saying the way that he handled it as the director was great in front of the media. I know he's no stranger to the media at all, but I thought it was really impressive, and it sort of made me sit back and say, oh, wait a minute, maybe there's another reason behind this, as opposed to getting all wingy and negative about something. You make a great point. I mean, regardless of where you sit on the issue, the ability to lay out a clear, unbiased argument based on facts is something we don't hear enough of anymore. And I go to their website afterwards, and there's the press release right there, front and centre, so I think they're really proactive in the way that they handled it. I wonder if he wants job as Prime Minister. Yeah, well, let's not go into politics because we know where that's going to go. Actually, nice segue, thumbs down. Why is everyone so negative on the issue of politics? Anna Bly, so the former Queensland Premier who has a new role heading up the Australian Bankers Association so on April 3rd, she became CEO in what was described as a pivotal time for the industry. So it was meant with some controversy. Once again, the media stood up. They started talking about the whole situation where we have politicians go to lobbyists and how bad that is for democracy. Donald Trump came into it because apparently his made reforms in the US and we should be doing the same. And I just thought it was just so negative and all this hype. But forget the fact that she's a professional. Forget the fact that she is completely entitled to that role and she's worked her butt off, really, for the past how many years within the sector. And also the fact that she's ABA's first female CEO. No one spoke about that at all. She has more than 30 years within the public service as well. So I think a simple congratulations sometimes suffices in these areas. But I think sometimes we're just so quick to point out the negatives. And I'd like to hear other people's opinion on this whole politician-to-association argument, whether or they've experienced it, whether they've done it, or what your thoughts are either way. It's interesting. I mean, she's been out of the Queensland Premier's seat for at least, well, I know at least, certainly more than one term. So it's not like she moved from under the other. But if you looked at her resume on paper, taking the names in that way, I mean, what an incredible resume that lady brings to that role. So full credit to her and congratulations on the role. And look, at the end of the day, it's about your skills. There are some politicians who, quite frankly, should never be given the job of CEO of an association. There are others who, quite frankly, have the skills and capabilities. And it's up to the board to sit down and assess those people without the stars in their eyes and make an objective decision on can the person do the job well. Exactly. Thanks for that. So now we're going to hand over to you the big picture, our feature story. It's your turn, Damien. Let's turn our attention to you because we've had enough on us for the first few minutes. So first of all, you're still relatively new to your role at ADA. Very new. What initially attracted you to the role? Look, I said to the recruiter at the time that he asked me the same question. And basically I said to him, look, I like to go where I feel like and make a difference. And I've turned down roles in the past where I've looked at them and said, you know what, I just don't think we're a good match and I don't think I can make enough of a difference here. When it came to Dental, it's a great organisation, a great brand. It's done fantastic things over many years. But it's got some challenges that when I looked at what I was capable of and what it needs, I thought I could make a difference. Ultimately the board agreed, but it would appear. Mmm, nice one. And so Sarah mentioned at the start that you're also a director of LSAE who our audience will be well familiar with. I guess thinking in terms of corporate governance perspective, you've got a lot of experience public and private sector. What are some of the observations you see in terms of differences between sort of full purpose governance and also in the private sector? Look, I think there's a raft of things to be honest. Probably the biggest thing that hits me is the fact that in the corporate sector we're really pointy about where the revenues are coming from, where the costs are, we're very pointy about understanding customer value and how do we direct customer value to the places where people pay for it. And the people who sit on boards come to the table with a real focus on how do we govern that process so that we get our experts, our staff to make good decisions, how do we get them heading in the right direction. And there's a real imperative that hits the bottom line. Once we jump over to the association sector, what I tend to find is that because we get tested on our value proposition once a year in the main, the membership fees go out and people either pay it or they don't. Getting that single measurement of our performance means that it's very easy to drift a lot during the year and not be as focused during the course of the year. Associations are horrendous at adding more things to the bucket and not taking things out. What do we stop doing? Question doesn't get asked all that often. And as a result, we can find ourselves drifting away from those really pointy value pieces and not necessarily focusing on where are the points in the association that people are willing to pay the money because ultimately that's where the value for them is. Refreshing. So I guess given that you're still quite new to the ADA as a couple of months into the role, what are you asking for from your board? What are you saying to your board? What do I need as the CEO from you to be successful? Look, the ADA is no different to any other association. We have a board of dentists and without being critical of our board there's quite frankly there are some brilliant people on that board. We haven't had a culture of governance in the way that you might expect to see it in the corporate sector and as a result, there's some things in there that lack clarity. So you mentioned culture of governance. What does that mean to you in a not-for-profit setting that you can throw that in there as well? The best way for me to describe it, I guess, and I've had this conversation with people over the years, governance is about establishing rules and processes so others can make decisions. So where do we want to go? Where's our strategic direction? What are the frameworks in which you'll make decisions to progress the organisation in that way? What often happens is that governance and associations think they're there to make decisions. We need to consider whether we should buy term deposit number A or term deposit number B. One of them's with NAB, one of them's with Westpac. Well, who cares? It's irrelevant. We have four banks in this country. They're all AAA rated and if the rules are pick a AAA rated bank, one of the four pillars, then my finance person can make a much more informed decision than my board in many cases. What happens, of course, is that people fall into that trap of we're required to make these decisions and therefore we have to, instead of developing the frameworks that allow our staff and our people to make great decisions. That leads you down a path. You just end up running around in circles and you end up with bureaucracy. Seems like you've got obviously a wealth of knowledge yourself from being on a board, but also you probably sit there and maybe this person should be, maybe this person shouldn't be. The people out there who are looking to move into that, so looking for applying for a board position, what advice would you give them and how should we start working forwards? What should we be planning for if that's our end goal? My advice to anyone looking to join a board is to ask a set of questions around is there an induction process? Is there any ongoing training for directors so that I can understand how to be a good director versus just being a director? And I don't know about you guys, but when I go into a job, I would grate at that job. I don't want to just turn up and fall asleep. So what do I need to know to be great at that job and all too often directors just fall into these things and collectively flip and flop around? That's not great for the organisation. It's not great for them. So get inducted, get trained, understand the job of governance and the job of a director and then you can start to build your directorship career. If you just fall into it flip and flop around then quite frankly your career will go nowhere like it wouldn't in any other setting. So ADA, we've spoken about your other roles, APA a few others, you've sort of been around the block a bit. So there has to be something that gets you out of bed every day with a smile on your face. Why do you stay in the sector? Why do you love it? It's a great sector. Look, this is one sector where you can literally walk in the door any morning and not know what you're going to be faced with in that day. And it's an email from a member, it's an email from a board member, a staff member, something blows up in the media, a competitor sends out an email, they've just launched something and you're literally dealing with this moving dashboard of things every single day. Added to the fact that you can actually make a difference. I've sat on the board of a large hospital and I look at when I joined the board versus when I left the board, not a whole lot had changed. I didn't really make that much of a difference. Yes, we adjusted some things and I thought we did some good things. We managed, while I was there, the management team who were brilliant by the way managed to get the time for a piece of bread to get from the front door to the plate to under one day. That was a huge achievement, believe it or not. So one of my great achievements in governance was that we managed to get bread to the table on the same day. You compare that to an association where the change you can affect can be remarkable. Changes of scope of practice, changes in competency-based frameworks for people to be able to be better clinicians, in my case, or better in the industry, changes to government legislation that allow better services to Australians. This is stuff you can really affect in associations. There is no other job like this. Politicians don't have the same type of job. People working in operations don't have the same sort of job. So it's just an exciting job if you ask me. Have you changed dentists since you started working at AD? Well, I've had to because I moved in the state, but my dentist in Melbourne was great as well. Thank you so much for that. We'd like you to stay and join us for the next segment because it's going to change your life. You think working for an association makes you feel like you've got impact. Wait till you hear this. This is where we actually proved the point, that there is an association for everything. He goes out and looks for the most obscure association he can find, and we spotlight them and some of the amazing work they're doing over to you. Thank you, Sarah. And some of our viewers may turn their nose up at this next association. But a question for you, a question for both of you, actually. What will you be celebrating in a couple of weeks on April 23rd? Ooh. I can't tell you that information. I'm curious though. What am I going to be celebrating? What you should be celebrating is International Nose Picking Day. What? It's a genuine date in some people's calendars. And in fairness, several years ago in my youthful university days I lived with a flatmate and every day was International Nose Picking Day. Yeah. But I digress and bring it back to... Let's bring it back to standard here. And why do we have an International Nose Picking Day? Because due to the International Nose Picking Association. I'm not making that up. It's very difficult to find information on this organisation. They do have a very rudimentary website featuring images of celebrities picking their nose. A range of articles and topics relating to nasal health. Very important topic. Nose Picking quotations. And my favourite article was Nose Picking Habit, Obsession or Harvest. That's the title of the article. The one certainty, however, of the International Nose Picking Association is that they do lay claim to establishing International Nose Picking Day and why they chose April 23rd. I'm not sure. But with that day just a couple of weeks away what better way to salute their all nosing work by saluting them on this segment. Yay. Maybe you can create a spin-off and do like the Association of Teeth Grinding or something. Yeah, looks like it. Please don't do that. Thank you for that. It was very enlightening. I can't think of a nice pun right now so I'll just go straight into the two minute warning. So this is where we're actually accountable for the good and the bad and the amazing feedback on our previous shows. We're going to share with you the best and the worst. So first of all a question from Andrew that did come through quite timely because from a viewer, are all your obscure associations real? Or are you making them up? Who knows? Get it? I don't know what you're talking about, sir. My goodness, yes, absolutely. I assure you they're all 100% genuine. As if I could make that stuff up. I'm just not that creative. No, no, they are all genuine. I assure you a rigorous online search. I'm still waiting for my travel budget to come in to actually physically go out and see them for my own eyes. But no, I assure you they're all true and all equally worthy of featuring on this segment. Excellent. Well, that brings us to the end. It's a wrap. Thank you. Both of you, lovely working with you as always and great to hear more about ADA and your role there. Thank you for the invitation. Best of luck. Thanks Damien. Fantastic and we could be talking a lot longer, I'm sure. Great. Thank you everyone. As always, if you have any feedback any ideas or anything else that you want to talk to us about, feel free to hashtag 6DA or just contact us directly. Go to 6degreesofassociation.com Thank you once again to these both amazing men beside me. And then also remember that too much conversation kills a chat. So keep it short. Thanks for now. Bye.