 Mae ddischwynt gyda'r hyn. Niaid i gyflwyniad mewn hynny o gweithio newydd mewn o'r mewn hwbl arlau ping led ac ychydig o'w ceisio gweld eu Targ Lleinydd yng Nghlaun o PCF nebodaeth Bothazor Rydym. Dysgolwyd mewn hwyl hwyl hwyl hwyl hwyl yn gymgyrchol arno gael mwy ffordd hwyl inni i liniwll ac mae'n fawr i gwybod nhw o'n dechrau ei gael. Rwy'n cael ei hwyl hwyl hwyl pan fydd ydw i'r gweithio gweithio ar fwy genna'r an Sexx. this is known as intergenerational transmission of mental health problems. There are a number of ways that this can happen, including genetics, exposure to trauma and unhealthy coping mechanisms. Today we'll be attempting to demystify mental health and digging into intergenerational mental health awareness for Nigeria. Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 0818 038 4663. Tweet it also, send us a message on X at Weishio Africa 1 with the hashtag Weishio. Mental health, we've talked about mental health but I like this concept of, in fact I think when I saw the title I was like intergenerational mental health, are we talking about the mental health of Degenzies, you know I can't, I just, yeah I can't, or are we talking about this concept of what intergenerational meant and then I saw that, interestingly enough it can be passed down, not something I thought about consciously but then when I saw this I thought actually it's true because in fact the one that I really would like our guests to talk about today is the impact of in marriages you hear a lot of people say oh we're staying together for the children and then you know I know people who like they're older and they're just like I wish you guys had just split up like you literally, that house was the original Fuji house of Kawusha and it was just you know stressful and you know I'm dealing with issues now from it but what are your thoughts and any experiences around you know the impact of you know intergenerational issues when it comes to mental health? I've not had like a direct experience but I think I heard about, my dad had told me about one of his cousins who had a mental breakdown and he just disappeared, they just could not find him anymore and as time went on although he had a child then they found out that as a child was growing I think when a child was a teenage or a young adult said that to experience similar symptoms so for that particular child it just meant that they needed to nip it in the bud as soon as possible so that got me thinking and it kind of like just got me scared you know sometimes when before you get married people tend to tell you or run tests ask questions right you need to find out yes but there's more things to find out if there has been some form of traumatic traumatic traumatic experience in that family who has words who has experienced words so that way you know right so that by the time you're in that marriage and you probably have a child you start to notice those signs, you tend to attack it from young before it just blows out of proportion but then that's that's basically it. It's interesting to learn more about that. Is there any thoughts? Hi Isiah are you there? Yes I'm here. Yeah so I was just saying yes I haven't experienced anyone with that mental situation but like Jennifer said I have heard about something like that you know being passed from generation to generation especially a situation whereby a son is exhibiting same attributes or character or features that the father must have done maybe for example the father had some sort of mental breakdown when he as a child as an adult and he passed it on to the children while beating them up and all that and the child tends to you know grow up and become just like his father if they're beating the same traits as the father so yes I have heard about it but I haven't actually seen it first hand basically. All right so it looks like we have a lot of questions lined up for our guests. Cemi Shafwaya Agwebe is a multi potentialite I love it. With a commitment to helping broken people find healing at the intersection of her interest she leads the team at room 707 a support group for people finding comfort from grief depression addictions and abuse started in 2021. The group has since coached more than 300 people who have passed through the therapy program while at the same time driving their catching them young project targeted at secondary school students equipped with a pharmacy degree and an MBA from a global business school she is currently the global head. She's currently the global head of special projects at MFARMA a pioneering health tech company spanning Africa. Thank you for joining us Cemi we're very excited to have you on the show. Can you help us to be here? So when I was looking through your profile and I saw that you started this in 2021 in the current construct right and I thought okay so this is post COVID so it's not even like this was you started it at the height of when it was really needed because everybody was coming with those um those heart those when I see highs not highs the downs or the lows of COVID and the mental stress and all of that that was happening there but what was it that was happening in Nigeria that led you down that path of wanting to tackle something as big as mental health? I think that for me it was beyond just Nigeria it's something that I had experienced I mean from childhood attempted suicide like two or three times I lost my mom in 2018 lost my dad last year it was crazy right it's a crazy thing it's a crazy place to be and so from that experience right first and I'm like when I lost my mom I wanted everybody to experience what I was experiencing right I wanted people to suffer right but it was very different over time when I found healing and then I couldn't stand anybody going through suffering that way but I need to mention this right so room 707 had actually started from my church you know it's a young people's church and um so you can imagine that a a a church environment where you have people are supposed to have open things like that yet they were experiencing really really crazy mental health issues right and so at some point um I mean the vision group began we knew that we needed to take it outside of the walls of the church and the response has been huge very ill and that's why I really love the topic that you've selected but when I got that up I said wow this is amazing right I feel like we need to create awareness as to how bad our interns mental health issue is especially with young people right especially with young people and this is why it's important because of the tendency for it to be intergenerational right and so if you reach it early enough at the point of early development then there's a chance that that child will not grow and continue that cycle and transfer it into his own into I mean into their own kids right but right now what we're seeing now is a very very intense um effect or you know so I'll say this to you I have a science background typically most of the behaviors that you you develop or you exhibit it's passed either from genetics, imagery or the environment yeah I'm just going to even now that you mentioned it maybe a good time to define what that intergenerational mental health looks like is it passed down by like you said genetics it can it be part of what you know you passed down to your child or can it be that as a parent you have a traumatic situation and then the way you're treating your child then creates that so just maybe give us some some insight now so what the environment sorry what the children of now are experiencing is a combination of the two and that's why it's really leader so yes science basically that background you will transfer it through genetics they are imagery it's very key right and then it can be augmented by the environment right you know so they're setting traits that can pass into a child through genetics and somehow along the part of that child the environment can course correct it if the environment is now empowering it then you even find the child exhibiting even more serious symptoms than the parents did and that's why today you have a lot of young people that break easily you hear them and these are people that are have councils right you tell you hear them they've attempted society you know that they're thinking of it two three times why are you thinking about killing yourself oh i'm not where i'm supposed to be 23 20 years old what led you along this part you know oh right from when I was age seven I didn't think I was love I was this and all that you know so you see that the environment has augmented what is already at work or playing the love of the child that she doesn't even realize and so they find themselves along that path and then you see a lot of anxiety depression cases why because many times if a child was exposed to childhood trauma or from a very turbulent family already is at a disadvantage because the environment is empowering a cycle that is at work whether she's aware or not you know she's aware or not you see so most of the time they will end up with anxiety depression issue repeating the cycle and even in a greater effects than the parents did and then if you're not careful then they pass continue to pass that onto their children so that's what intergenerational mental health is anything that is intergenerational just means that it has impact across generations right and so that's what we're seeing there Jennifer I think you will come to Issy before we'll come back to this hi Issy hello hi Cammy well said I totally enjoyed your breakdown of what intergenerational mental health awareness is all about now I told the story about a 14 year old girl who actually committed suicide and you know you were quite lucky to have attempted it but didn't go through with it I thank God you're here today first things first so I need you to throw more light on how if there are there are teams that are going through something or going through some sort of anxiety or depression currently based on the fact that they have an environment that is not assisting them or helping them what would you say to them to help them get through that situation or depression that they're going through currently so I feel like the first step is really awareness which is why I love what Plus TV is trying to do about just creating awareness it's for you to first at the level of awareness you've even solved a very great percentage of the issue just being aware that this is what my reality is right now I'm actually there's something like anxiety there's something like depression and that's looks like what I'm experiencing so first is that awareness understanding what the identity is that's one number two is of course to to try to seek help like a coach or therapy you know and that's why a place like room 707 is I mean it's completely free you know like I mentioned in my bio we've actually had about 300 young people pass through the program you know so seek therapy you can't really help yourself that much you know without therapy without counselling you know so first like I said is the awareness the awareness and then seeking therapy now let's try to demystify this idea of therapy because in Nigeria we're talking Nigeria now many people feel that therapy is means that you're mad or something's wrong with you hypnotised you know so it's that's not what it is really you know in fact most of the time therapists when I consult people the the answers are within them only that they can't see it they can't help themselves you know it's like I'm drowning in water and you can't get yourself out you know so the therapy just helps you to separate the person from the problem and that's what I try to do with them separate the person from the problem this is the problem there are many addictions um victims addiction by the way is also transgenerational yeah so if your parents any of your parents suffer from an addiction there's a chance that they've passed those things to you and that's why you're struggling with pornography or masturbation so imagine you you're struggling with masturbation and you're not even aware about this this time and see but you're trying hard you don't like it you don't enjoy it that much if you bad that's what I see with them the few bad after they engage in the heart they are not happy and for societal cases as well they are not happy that they are not happy they can't just get themselves out right but just the mere fact that oh there's a chance that this actually passed on for my parents you know that helps you to start seeing it outside of you the person the problem the problem is addiction the problem is anxiety and depression it doesn't mean that there's a problem with me by the time you unify the person and the problem then we have a big problem you know and so that's when a typical societal victim will tell you you know what there's nothing I can do I can't help myself I'm just gonna keep myself right so it's awareness one sick therapy and therapy is just going to help you um separates the person from the problem and then we start dealing with the problem not that there's something wrong with the person thank you thank you for shedding more light on that so I have a question around grief right you had talked about um when your mum passed away and I know that there are a couple of people who are probably going through something like that people who are dealing with grief but sorry so basically what I want to know is how's the cycle how does the cycle of grief work and as as individuals how do we help those who are close to us through that entire process like you know sometimes when when somebody passes away people never really know what to say right people never know what to do because there's no amount of sorry there's no amount of of of pertain of or affection or compassion you want to give to that person in that moment that is going to heal their heart or that's going to make them feel better but I know that sometimes even when that is happening people still want to help you because nobody wants you to go down that dark hole because you never know if they're ever going to come out of it so what I'm asking is first of all what is the cycle of grief right how do we identify that and how do we help people through it yeah um interesting question thank you for that grief is um asked about four stages the the first one on denial you know that phase where you know it's just really hard for them to accept what is what is really going on and I say this to people that no that experience leaves you the same it's it's it's crazy right it's crazy I don't think there's any amount of what I mean the word you can say to them in that moment sometimes silence there's a lot of healing and power in just being there and being silent so imagine just sending a text I just want you to know that I'm here you know it may not make sense to them they may not it may not adapt at that point but over time I just want to know them here I just want you to know that um you could send a scripture you could send a good um a good quote that's just something really soft and easy and don't try to put a pressure on them you know so grief is it doesn't leave you the same you know like when I lost my dad last year he had cancer and just watching you know somebody that you love um like see part of him right um it was crazy man so but the truth is somebody asked me how to give survival using your dad I mean it's the thought time I lost my sister I lost my dad and it's just five of us so you can imagine right I said oh I didn't survive using my dad I just became a different person last year and this person is whatever it would take to comfort somebody that is grieving because sometimes when I lost my mom the one person that really could could get to me there's several people coming to say a lot was an heart that he lost an amount and then she just said when I lost my mom and then she starts I could feel the energy it was very real it was different than people that not me experienced it you know that's the one person that could get to me and then she gave me a default I doubted she ever knew how therapeutic our words and that old words for me in that moment but I never forgot it you know so for me now it's just using my own experience you know to reach out to them so most of the time I realize that it's so easy for me to connect with people that agree because I've experienced it something's a better experience than explained right it doesn't leave you the same you already prepare as a friend or whatever role it is to that person that this is not the same person I knew before that time you know so if you think she used to like flowers she used to like apple so let me just give her flowers and send her apples and stuffs like that you can get there she just not feeling the flower on her face you know and then you shouldn't have a problem with that because allow them one gives them the freedom for that transition because the transition is necessary and it will happen if the transition doesn't happen the person has not accepted it is in the face of denial are you comfort somebody that's in the face of this denial it's just to be quiet you know just listen to them and all of that checking once a while you know and then after that you know then you can start being more conscious about the new person that they have become and even letting them know you know I know I'm just here for you regardless of what is on the other side but I'm here for you well thank you even just talking about it here it's changing the energy at the table it's so powerful and when you said it's a better experience I just thought to myself I remember when my mum died it was real when they were putting the coffin in the ground but this was where it came from and I'm like I can't follow her this is the real point of goodbye and it's just not something that like I said you can't explain it it's only when you experience it that you understand it we should take a quick break and we'll be right back please stay with us if you just tuned in we're discussing the topic intergenerational mental health awareness for Nigerians with kemi shakwae plebby please let's hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation send us an sms or whatsapp to 018 018 038 4663 tweet at us at we show africa with the hashtag um waste show so uh coming back to the generations and coming back to the reality of weather today um when we first started the show we were talking about the disparity in um treatment opportunities so hospitals therapists we already have a problem in the health sector then you need to start to come down to that area the ratios are even more critical so given that you are now you know plugging that gap in a way talk to us a bit about how big that gap really looks at what it looks like the gap is is as wide as the gap you have when you have um a parent that is sick for example and you can't even get a hospital bed or you have an accident victim that you can't even get a hospital bed right so that's how wide the gap is now for mental health is even worse why because a lot of attention has not been devoted to that um um you know that health care yeah it's it has not been but there are a few private organizations doing amazing things and i'm really really grateful and happy for that but then i realize that hmm the oddly have spaces the gap is terrible and now i'm sure you guys are aware about how drug abuse is so rampant among young people today so we have a project called catching them young right so the 300 i mentioned at basically young adults that are you know reached out to us and at some point when i realized that from engagements with them many of them were exposed from primary school secondary schools have been battling societal anxiety whatever addictions since lesbianism since primary school when i was age of six this happened to me blah blah blah i'm like so we started that project called catching them young and then we started going to secondary schools because it's easier to heal somebody that has been bleeding for just a very short time than somebody that that's even if they even make it to adult so when you talk about the gap now right the gap is as wide as the people currently suffering right can't even get as much help and then nobody is even trying to reach out to the younger generation and guess what even parents parents what do i mean even teachers i go to schools and they tell me i'm so glad you guys are here because we can't undo it on our own is that right and trust me 80% to 90% of the young people i talk to their parents have no idea no idea they have no idea and they don't even know how to manage it that is how wide the gap is because mental health is in different stages and different levels it's not everyone that requires or goes to the clinic in fact some people have gotten worse from considering their option why because the parent didn't really know how to manage that information at that point and then maybe a friend says and why don't you take us to psychiatric clinic and of course when she gets there then she feels worse than because it just i mean i did my internship for one year psychiatric clinic this is 2011 2011 every day we have close to 300 people struggling in fact the drugs are not enough things like that you know struggling struggling to get their drugs medication these guys look all featured up like not all of them look crazy that way this is 2011 so if this is 2023 you can imagine and how many mental health facilities have been built between that time now and if yes that's it okay if i mean step in that you've talked about different things but one thing that resonated with me was the fact that she said that we have younger ones who are it's easier to handle younger ones who are going through what they're going through not to talk of the the elder the the older ones basically now the older ones we can neglect them we know that they are there we have broken adults that they do not know how to handle themselves but they have individuals who are living with them and trying to manage them so how do you deal with these broken individuals okay so for the older ones right basically is to seek up and to seek therapy basically but you see no the people who are dealing with them how will they manage them how this is for those who are living with these people who are already broken adults so how will they manage them all the people living with them right the parents and the family members all right exactly okay so not the parents now it's not the parent that is broken no oh they have young adults those who are already broken oh great great so i mean the first thing is not to freak out because that's what i see a lot these days you know and then the parents are just freaking out because they're like where did this come from and did we miss it and things like that is to first understand that again it's as like your daughter has a headache or your daughter has typhoid and you need to take out your speech you to treat a mental health issue does not mean that oh that's a right of where do i start from and then you're freaking out because that's going to even make the situation worse for that person you just separate the person there's a role of love there where's a role of love the role of love yeah yeah but you see the parents in fact not what i've seen most of the time the parents freak out so much that they themselves get into a depression and get into the they even get worse that comes into it yes because they need to just be okay with knowing that sometimes mental like people are not you know in terms of their mental state is not that optimum right they need to just be okay with that first and because there are several factors that has led that child to that point and trust me it is not when you notice this you know it's the same thing with a symptom and a disease right a symptom and a disease right the symptom is as a result of the disease if you take care of the symptom and the disease is still there it's going to just come right back right so the first thing is not to freak out then I say this to parents I mean I have three daughters right and I say this to parents that one of the best gifts you can give your children is an environment you know for them to be able to have conversations with you there's so many things that conversation would do because even when you speak about love if that environment had the capability to give love to that child the way you wanted you wouldn't have found yourself there in the first place so maybe the parents don't even are not even capable like I said 90% of the children that speak to me the parents have no idea in fact and they're talking to a complete stranger they're telling me details secrets everything or when I was age of six one says um my mom she felt this depression because the parents wanted her to study science instead of arts yeah to the parents when I spoke to the parent because somehow she found that then she reached out to me the parent told she was extending love to other a and more mature we are more mature than you we knew your smarts analytical we go into science and somebody moved down to science so then they were actually extending love to her yeah but it's affected her a very smart child and over time she just started using his academic but you know the the the word you just said now just leads so nicely into the question that I wanted to ask if you look at the way we raise kids today and the way kids were raised so what because we're talking about intergenerational right these parents were raised in a very different way they were not raised with communication with love in the way that and you can't give what you don't have thank you so I wonder how you know that in itself is becoming a driver of what you're seeing mm-hmm I have young people today that call me mommy yeah mommy some of them are older like as old as I am and they say mommy they identified more with me being mommy to them even though they have their ear models yeah yeah because that's open conversation that they can have with me and it's 90% anonymous they've never seen me and they open up yes so they don't even they don't know me some of them take the you know liberty to look for me for the first time you know and when I see them I'm really always but they don't know me but the connection is so deep yeah imagine if the parents are the companies to give that to them because I'm saying them physically right so sometimes parents can't give what they don't have and like you said how we were raised I cannot raise my children yeah see I have three daughters they came in different generation I already understand that they are different I can't apply the same method that I use for one to raise the others in fact even myself in those three faces are transitioned I'm not the same mother that raised three of my kids yeah yeah but I need to be aware about you see awareness is so key like even parents in their identity they don't even know yeah if they are not in the best state of mind how do they even extend that to them how can they do that and and the world's really so stressful at the moment it's so stressful you know they live you have parents that live the well-being of their children to nannies to the fact that they're not expensive school fees that is right to their teachers yeah that is a whole topic for you whole other show and we're fast running out of time um Jennifer I think you have a comment yeah I was going to ask the question but let me do my comment because we're running out of time good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying hashtag ways I know this is a little yeah intergenerational mental health awareness for Nigerians your beautiful guests made mention of two things that are very important number one to create awareness concerning the intergenerational mental health number two to demand for a therapy session for the person involved it is solving the problem and not the person because there is nothing wrong with the person my dear beautiful sister ec said that generational causes are passed from parents to children thereby the children begin to behave like parents and copy their characters parents should be careful how they bring up their children to avoid regrets this is very important sister uti you look beautiful tonight God bless you my name is Daniel illo ways regular fan thank you Daniel we really appreciate the love and the consistency um we have run out of time so my final comment or question of plea to you chemies please we would like to have you back on the show we want to continue to raise awareness of mental health and for people to understand the fantastic work that you're doing um at your organization before we go um thank you Jennifer thank you Issy um always a pleasure being on set with you ladies um before we go do ensure that you listen to our podcast on Spotify follow us on instagram at wayshowafrica you can interact with us further drop a comment and most importantly follow all our social media engagements remember to like share comment and invite your friends and family to watch us and follow us if you missed today's quote here it is again I think that it's really important to take the stigma away from mental health my brain and my heart are really important to me I don't know why I wouldn't seek help to have those things be as healthy as my teeth couldn't have said it better that's from Kerry Washington we look forward to seeing you tomorrow at 8 p.m as we bring another great conversation to your screen thank you