 We're good to go Matt. Well, we're gonna be going live right now Right now. Oh my god because it's time to go live. I scheduled it for 315 Yeah, I was aware of the time Okay, I'm glad I'm glad somebody is I Started like a few minutes late yesterday because I legitimately had no idea what time it was When you push it back from 7 to 8 o'clock I was like, God, this thing's not happening Well, I'll be honest with you. I I literally spent all day all all morning right up until I get five o'clock trying to sleep It's just like it's not happening. You still haven't got used to the third ship yet. Have you apparently? It take it takes a while I used to work I work third shift for ten years and it takes a long time But once you once you get used to it, you'll never ever get your sleep back to the regular My problem my problem when I used to get the third shift because in retail. It's rotating shifts One week you get all my goodness Just build a Firefox does not have DRM support. So I can't even watch the stream. I can look at the chat, but that's it Anyway The the I used to love the late at the late shift, you know, why because after midnight because we used to open until 2 a.m after midnight The whole store is ours. We could do whatever we want and I could when you close the cat at the card machine Whatever you call it the one where you swipe the card. Yeah You have at the closing shift you have to print all the sales of the day And we used to have a lot of sales being Apple premium resellers. We used to sell a shit ton of iPhones So the role that the printout would end up like 20 feet long I used to hold it in my mouth It was printing and go backwards and have and take a tell my colleague to take a picture It's like my tongue is as long as the paper is my tongue and we used to have so much fun We were like monkeys. I used to like door the late shift That's really weird Steve. I'm just That's really weird All right, uh monkey need the ability to record sound so Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Where's where's the app? Is there an app image for this app it? There is no flat pack support everything's a Everything's an app image. What are what distro? Are you on? This is you blue flat pack list edition Hi, why didn't you choose like a normal distro? Because if he chooses a normal distro, he won't be Josh because if I did it over distro I would never have used no mo us and we're made an episode with you guys Would I tell you there's not an app image of audacity What how would you know, but there's an app image of K wave? Okay wave is the worst it's the worst that this audio is gonna suck. Oh My goodness and they would have the num sound recorder. So that's the one I'm gonna use Fill on ocean audio and I love it. I'm gonna be so happy when I end up having to use the backup recording from OBS That's definitely gonna happen It probably is let's see here that's not picking up the proper sounds Let's see Yeah Is it because no one decided to just randomly reset my sound settings again, that's exactly what happened Okay, are we live or yeah, we're live We're there I can't ask Now, you know we are very much alive. Okay, now it's working Yeah, I've heard of the Molved browser. I just saw the article earlier. I almost almost used that for an article, but it's just like but I Don't think that they're actually gonna have a Linux build for it first Yeah, I Read the and honestly everything that I've looked at it for so far is that it literally just looks like Firefox with some fancy proxy settings Is it a fork of box? I Mean if you look I've seen images of it and it's literally just Firefox Yeah, isn't Molved the one teaming up with the tour to create their own browser Yep, and the tour browser also is a Firefox. Well, and and Molved is the back end for the Yeah, yeah That's a strange marriage They also run a tour exit node out of their data center still I Would have to try that I have tried I had the misfortune of trying the the KDE browser. What was it called? There is a mobile browser is available for Linux. Oh Okay, yeah, you can do on the AUR was it just the tarball that you have to compile Oh, was it check on the AUR check on the AUR. Yeah, it downloads as a tarball Okay, then you there should be an AUR package It probably is but at the same time. I'm not on Arch And I'm not on Arch either so I can't check you and it's not in the Gen 2 repos, but that's not surprising It's available on the AUR Molved browser dash bin And seems like suck it bitches Baby, I'm on Arch. Yeah, baby. Nobody cares. I'm gonna build it right now Let's see. Let's see. Let's see willing address I'm like It's a tour it's a tour browser without the tour network. Okay. Okay, the tarball is a binary So there is no need to compile. Oh, cool Yeah, so The Mulved browser is tour and tour is Firefox. So Yeah, it's a it's full circle basically six degrees of Firefox. Yeah Conquer okay, I Josh for our next challenge. We have to use conqueror for six months I Back in the day back in the day. I actually used to use conqueror as my as my daily browser I use it as my I use it as both my web browser and my file manager. I guarantee we couldn't do it now No, use angel fish Okay, anybody in the chat Use conqueror as a daily browser. I I want to know if that's if anybody out there does that Because it's still in development. So obviously someone has to use it Use it for three months. You use use conqueror for three months recently No, it was in February 2022 bullshit I'm sorry Bullshit and unless you're not actually moving, you know browsing the web for anything because nothing renders in that Browser nothing renders in that. Yeah, I used it But I used it for for simple websites for it because it launched a lot It was still early early early and it as soon as I click the button. It was already open So I was like I needed something quick to Well, Google didn't even render correctly and that thing if I remember correctly Just just once I want to see someone come out with a browser That's actually like a new browser and I just like a fork or something else like even the Was it the the dug up go browser or whatever Yeah, it got released and I'm using it as a day on a daily on my Mac book My favorite browser. It's just simple. It just runs. I just browse a few simple website, but it's just a cover It's just a front-end for Safari It everything is everything on Mac OS and iOS uses webkit. Well, yeah, I know that but The the dug dug go browser was so stupid because they didn't they weren't going each platform was going to use a different engine I was can't on Mac OS. You're locked down to webkin. Yeah, you have to use You on iOS you're locked on a webkit, but on Mac you can you can use your own engine Firefox firefix firefox exists on Mac OS using their own. I know I know I know I know I know Well, it's the way the way it is on Mac OS. It's it's you see the Firefox engine, but at the lower lower level it's still webkit It's their engine on top of webkit All right, let's go ahead and get started fellas. You you both have means of recording open and ready to go I do have a means of recording. You're not gonna like it. I don't I mean, I do care. We're okay. We are manually telling ffmpeg to record up my audio. That's definitely going to work out well Um This is this is definitely not going to work. Okay. It doesn't matter. Uh, I'm gonna hit recording in uh audacity I'm gonna hit record in obs. So if you guys want to hit record as well Okay, I have hit record Steve, yeah, I have no way to test if my record is actually working right now, but I have hit record That's why we have backup. It's gonna be okay Uh, Steve when you're ready if you want to do the claps you may do so All right Accounto three three two one Good enough I have no clue for even anywhere near close because the the minute he did the clap Steve your video just went completely pixelated Really? Yeah discourse happens and something I don't know. Uh, it's okay. I had I had this. Oh, okay Uh Was building the mulvad browser. I need to sign the key because the key is not signed. I have to sign the key Oh boy port the key. Sorry import the key All right, it's an easy it's an easy command So we're gonna go ahead and to get started was your running a little bit behind Um, I hope I'm assuming that if the audio was bad for any of us somebody would have told us in the chat So I didn't check for audio this time Um, well apparently people heard me earlier because uh, there was a guy in there earlier Giving me tips on a living third shift life Uh, but uh, according to zoltan that was our best clap ever Awesome See the thing is you say that but you never really know until you go in and try to line them up in audacity later on So we'll see it's not gonna matter this time because josh's audio has no chance of actually being good So i'm just gonna be using the the obs audio so Hopefully that comes out otherwise we're screwed Well, I'm no because there's oh there's always the the best part about doing it this way is we we have the first the first tier Of us recording in an audio program And then if that doesn't work, I can use the obs one if the obs one doesn't work And everyone's can still hear us on youtube. Yeah, we can just download the youtube one So three backups. We're good because I have deleted the video in the past so And and needed it that's happened. All right Uh me then josh and steve and we'll go all right Hey, everybody. Welcome. Well, uh, what go ahead steve Go right It's fine. We can fix that on first Malfat browser is based on firefox 102 dot Not a dot nine esr. Yeah, it's based on tors. It's comes from the tor browser Um, so much isn't that installed Cool. All right, we're gonna start Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the next guest. I'm your host matt And i'm josh I'm stevo Hey, you remembered his name this week Uh, tyler is on assignment. I was supposed to say that I guess I don't know. He's actually in vegas doing whatever it is You do in vegas. I'm sure there's something to do there's this is a little town in the desert anything Obviously, he's not gonna tell us what happened there Yeah, because what happens if vegas stays in vegas So we're not gonna pester him at all about it next time he shows up if he shows up He might get buried in the desert. You never know Honestly, I'm expecting to come back with the wife on with the wife attached to his hip Pictures of an Elvis impersonator in the background Yep Okay, so this is the linux cast we talk about linuxy things and that's what we're planning on doing today We have some good linux news But first as always we start off the week talking about what we've done in the open source world and on our computers and stuff Just randomly stuff. So, uh, steve, why don't you tell us what you've been working on this week? Good thing you started with me because it's gonna be a quite a long one this one. Oh good Oh boy I've been working on Zero linux of course But i'm not gonna go into detail about that you're gonna discover that on may 15th when the new releases get out i'm just gonna Announce that zero linux xfce edition is coming on may 15th. Yes, it's gonna be back. I'm bringing it back because Apparently I have a lot of potato laptop owners out there that really want Desktop environment that is light on resources. So i'm like, hey, I already done it before why not bring it back Xfce is great for power users, too. It's fantastic. Yes, but Uh, I'm saying for performance wise. It's the shit out of kde Sorry, it does You went through your video to try to rise it the way you did but xfce panel was in the trash bin poly bar made it back Uh, you're gonna put poly no no no no hold on a second. You're using poly bar in xfce Yes why because uh Because xfce panel is a piece of trash that I don't want to look at Totally totally. It doesn't look sexy enough for zero linux. So obviously it's it's not going to be a package in zero linux No, it's not about that. It's not about that. I said try I tried to center the clock It wouldn't center. It would always move and it was it was like, um I need something You you you literally should have hopped in the chat and said hey matt Could you possibly help me with xfc before panel and be like sure? I'll help you steve. We look we we watched your stream literally while we were working on it We couldn't Get it exactly the way I wanted it to be similar to yours, but with extreme round corners extreme transparency that I know you can do transparency. It doesn't matter. Uh, it's Uh, I I wanted to configure it with uh with with a better tray Because the tray icon sucked In the xfce panel, uh, each one was a different size um So I was like Need something better Went with poly bar because I've done it before and I know how to work poly bar on I I am astonishingly disappointed in you steve It works poly bar works on xfce. It's not like it doesn't no poly bar works on everything But it's not it's not it's not the same. It's it's it's a it's a travesty is what it is But we can move on if I show you if I show you a screenshot you will understand He did a great job kudu did a great job that uh We have even a button you click it it opens up a power menu on the on the poly bar you select reboot Blog out or whatever. It's all done in the poly bar on on the xfce panel It's either whisker menu or some shit as simpler version of whisker menu Uh, no, thank you So we're using rofi as our menu for now But that's beside the point. I was working on zero linux xfce because that's the only one that's left to finish My question for you is does xfce really have to have rounded corners? Yes, for me. Yes, it doesn't have to but it can Also, someone in this chat says you can't use float and Rounded corners in xfc panel. Yes, you can You can make a fake float You can do pretty much. It's literally css. It's you can do whatever you want with it Correct, it's not it's not wrong But if we try putting it on the top every time we maximize the window it would go under the the panel That's the only work around that kudu pound because he's working on the rice is by adding in a second invisible bar panel But anyway, uh, I was also busy Broadcasting Easter. I mean good friday and a thursday from church And in the linux world. I was Really busy working on you know Seeing how I can modify the a few things because When it will be released. I hope it'll be known 44 Just studying which extensions I can leave in which extensions I can leave out And working on the tool The new hello tool that's going to be making it in this release. Hopefully debt synapse can Can finish it by then I've been working on it off and on since october and working with broken ansible on this on a web on a web page for on a page uh on a website for the spins Because those and spins what what do spins mean in the linux zero linux world? Means you pay for the you donate for the iso or build it yourself for free Because I'm encouraging not because I want to Charge because I'm an asshole No, it's because I'm in a current situation that is so bad that it requires funds I cannot find a job. I cannot so I need to find a way to give Well getting and return uh, so I'm charging for my time and uh I'm encouraging people learn how to build an iso and tinker and get into their hands dirty with linux Oh And besides that I can now monetize on my channel. I have joined memberships and everything I'm glad that you guys have some way of making revenue off of youtube Some of us don't get banned off from every platform. I'm just putting out Oh, that's what I've been doing in the linux world and now just build Mulfad Browser which will be available on the zero linux repository if anyone is already on zero linux Be able to grab it in a few hours. All right. Uh, josh, what have you been up to? We had a district hacking episode. It was awesome. Yeah I know right I I Was literally stripping everything out of zero linux to make not zero linux You should watch the stream you should watch the stream He did he did a good job But I saw the fact that he couldn't see Sim links from regular files. That was a really funny part It turns out that a certain somebody over over here He he uses these uh things called sim links, which you know, if you're looking through everything through vs code Vs code does not know what a sim link is and it will just display it as a regular file It will open the file from your system instead. Yeah So when I was modifying the uh display manager dot service file for system d I was modifying the display manager dot service file on my local system and not what Not the one I was wanting to work on Which explains why when like when I went to uh turn on the computer this morning Zero linux was not working for me. That's awesome. That's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard Watch the stream people watch it. It's hilarious. Yeah, it was good. But anyways, uh besides that, uh, I had a very busy week I I have filed 27 bug reports 14 of which were already resolved all 14 of which those by the way Went to hyperland. So hyperland had 14 bug fixes. Thanks to me Uh, then there were then, uh, you know, I filed a a bunch more for fedora and But I I only found four gen 2 related bug reports and uh, thankfully their bug tracker was actually working this week For only uh, and then my my next project here is involving the ublue os images, which are alternative fedora silver blue images Uh, it's got the world's greatest URL. It's ublue.it So you blew it. Yeah I saw that. Um I follow the guy who's behind that on on mastedon It's basically like and uh silver blue, but you can it's a whole bunch of rebased Things for different. Yeah, so I I did the stupid thing and uh, I loaded up I literally built my own oci container for it because all all all this is just a fedora cora os Which is oci container base, which is what silver blue is And I modified it the first thing I did was I removed flatpack and I removed podman and I removed toolbox Because we are all we are all in on app images Sounds like because I want to see how much I hate myself sounds like a torturous experience Um app images, uh, yeah, it turns out that There's a lack of a centralized repository So I found 17 different variations of firefox four different variations of discord only one of which actually supported video chat App images version of firefox That I settled on apparently does not package uh wide vines So I can't watch the stream on youtube, but I can participate in the chat. That's funny It's kind of like You know back in the day when ppas were like the only way of getting multiple kinds of software on ubuntu You'd always go searching Like you were on windows for the software you'd find the ppa and then you'd realize that the that nobody's updated the ppa since like 2008 And you you download the thing and like half the stuff wouldn't even work on your version of ubuntu But if you could get it to work You'd never get an update for it because it's just never been updated before somebody created it for that one use And then just left it on their blog Probably their blog spot blog for you know 10 years um, that's what happened speaking of Speaking of updates I I currently host a browser on On my repositories that hasn't seen an update in over a year And I don't know which browser is it surf? I don't know if you if you guys heard of waterfox g4 I have heard of waterfox get rid of that All right, we'll do because hasn't received any updates in over a year and I'm hosting it for some reason Yeah, uh, you don't you don't need that anymore. It's a firefox based, uh Web browser and there's been some massive uh vulnerabilities discovered in firefox in the last year get rid of it All right, why was I hosting it? I don't know so my mom was probably somebody asked I know a couple people who still use Waterfox for reasons. I don't know why um, but anyways for me, I have um been messing around with xmone ad as I made a video about and um Yeah, I don't like it You're on xmone ad right now. I am not no Um, I'm still working on getting everything to the point where it's actually working And I don't feel comfortable doing that and I'm in on a podcast Just I'm just not there yet So I've what I've been doing is because I do most of my stuff in in vm's now anyways, so I've been doing all of the um Vigoration stuff in a vm for now. I do have xmone ad on my physical system And uh, that's where I made the video from the other day and it's it's I don't like it. I just xmone ad itself is fine, but the haskell is God awful like I don't know I get it's I don't think haskell is actually bad. I think I'm just too stupid for haskell I think that that's where I'm at The only version of programming I I know a little bit of is lua programming So every time I look at that look at haskell and I'm working in haskell I just wind up accidentally writing lua. Well lua and haskell are pretty Guys remember I'm not a developer so they look Similar in some places like with the beginning comma at the beginning of the line and all that stuff Yeah, but then but then you get just enough similarities there to get me Yeah, and then haskell adds in those like the the weird places for where Question marks pop up for some reason and there's that Bracket uh greater than or less than bracket with a plus in the middle Which is a weird thing and then there's the dot and then the pipe and the dot again and nobody nobody knows what that does Unless you're a haskell developer. So Um, yeah, I I have no clue what I'm doing I'm still working on it and I plan on actually putting it on my production system when I get the A bar working, which I haven't got there yet. I'm still I've been working on it for days and I still haven't got there I'm thinking about seeing if I can get xfc4 panel to work actually. I'm thinking. Oh my god. No No, no, hey, don't scream into your mic, dude All right, but whenever somebody mentions the xfce bar, it's like panel. It's like no Just just because you couldn't figure it out steve doesn't mean it's bad And that's what that's what I would say about xmone add and xmobar and stuff just because I can't figure it out Doesn't mean that it's bad. It's just I can't figure it out. Anyways, that's what I've been doing Uh, nothing really all that special other than that. I've been working my ass off Turns out it turns out taking three weeks off is not Uh conducive to actually, you know being on time with your job. So Yeah, just just uh, just discovered that Waterfox g4 is dead. It was replaced by waterfox dash g which last update was on the 28th of march And there's a browser. I just discovered called mercury browser Uh, that is a firefox with compiler optimizations and patches from libra wolf waterfox and gnu ice cat Why not just package uh libra wolf and just call good Some people probably want the other stuff. Um, I have libra wolf. Uh, but I haven't it hasn't been updated in a while Let's see libra wolf All right, let's go ahead Libra wolf is as a flatback in the zero whole linux tool. That's why I'm not building it Okay, let's go ahead move into the news. I know we're very excited about the news guys People who are watching this we apologize for the lack of really good news this week. We had a hell of a time finding news It was just a very very slow week But we're gonna plug along. So, uh, steve, why don't you take us first for the first, uh news The first news i'm gonna start off, uh, with non kde news Uh, i'm just gonna Start with the First of all, hold on hold on a second use opera Somebody in the chat just said to use opera opera is still a thing I was going I was going to mention that earlier A lot of content creators are being sponsored by opera and they have sponsored spots for opera gx Well, I guess if opera wanted to send me some money, you know, apparently you need to play video games in your web browser I don't know. I don't know. It's like Vivaldi has all this extra stuff in there and then there's opera that somehow makes it worse Yeah, so uh, I'm I'm gonna start off with pipe wire news Because I have a few uh words to say about that. Great They they released a new update, uh, which landed last night on arge uh, they fixed the rtp, uh Uh, it has a new rtp session module that leverages the uh, the apple midi Protocol for low latency bi-directional midi between Uh systems while opus encoding was added Uh to the rtp formats I'm just gonna stop here and say one thing A lot of people complain about obi about the pipe wire, uh being like Uh getting their output going through their microphones on some reboots. Otherwise it works In other times it works and vice versa Uh, never had an issue with pipe wire ever since I started using it like a year and a half ago Uh until last night That's nice update. This update they're talking about Uh, it created also symbolic link Of uh pipe wire binaries which caused uh Mayhem on my system Not only was the mic being uh chosen as an output Had to be running application in the background Uh required pipe wire Was using pipe wire to be able to get any audio out of my browser If I wanted to watch a youtube video, I would get youtube video just stopping Just telling me uh that it cannot play back As soon as I launched obs for example You would come back just normal Sometimes I just had to click on the volume uh tray icon in the icon in the tray to drop down the uh the volume settings Then all you will continue playing as soon as I close close that the audio would disappear I was like what the hell is going on? This was a really really messy update. It reset everything on my system I had to spend four hours in total between two hours last night and two hours this morning to get it to behave Almost had to cancel my own podcast because of this Uh, I don't know what they did. I need to trace back everything Uh That caused all my issues. I think it's actually your session manager that would actually you wrap that actually routes to the sound channels for pipe wire So it might it might be something with what with uh, let's say you're using wire plumber, right? Okay, so it might have been something with a wire plumber Don't know what it was. I don't understand these things. I don't pretend to uh, even restarting pipe wire running the demand on pipe wire and pipe wire pulse didn't fix the issue was like stuck in in in non-functional uh land So, uh, but after a total of four hours. I got it in this. I just opened up the kte sound settings and started selecting various combinations and don't forget each uh audio setting has a profile attached to it like stereo duplex stereo whatever in point one surround 2.1 whatever I had to fumble with these profiles until I found one that works Now I took a screenshot and saved it so I can if this happens again. I know how But what to go back to but this was a really messy update at least for me I'm not saying in general. It was a messy update for me for my case A year and a half zero issues with all the updates that were released since until this one this one just I died so, uh If I were you guys I would create a snapshot if you're using vtrfs If you're not it just create a backup using timeshift update And if everything goes haywire go back revert until they release the next update I'm more I'm more interested. I mean not that I don't have uh sympathy for your problems steve, but Uh, I had no clue that pipe wire was on bsd Um, maybe I'm just out of the loop I didn't know pipe wire used bsd, but apparently it does Did you guys know that? You can run Well, I knew I could I figure you could probably run you can the only thing is that the only thing is that outright cannot run on free On previous anything that's super hard. Uh, kernel dependency I knew it probably could run relatively compatible. You can get most things to run on bsd. I just didn't know that it used it it A different term of phrase. Anyways, it doesn't it doesn't matter. I was just shocked kind of shocked by that Anyway, so that's pipe wire I'm not using pipe where I have pulse audio on my system, which is uh equally bad It seems audio on linux still sucks. Okay. Uh, josh your first one Oh, my first one. Oh boy Uh, so zstd compression, which was created by by facebook has been my favorite compression algorithm for a very long time now And uh, you know while I was scraping the news articles this morning just trying to find something interesting to talk about I decided I was going to start with the boring topic first because uh Uh zstd or otherwise known as disease standard compression pushed out a new update. Uh Let's see this article was published on the fifth and the release was Four days ago that actually fixed an issue where it could potentially corrupt your file So if say you were using butterfs and you actually took the time to manually manually set it up and configure it like I typically do uh Most people actually do use uh z standard compression So, uh, there was actually a an admittedly extremely low chance that you could have actually That you could have accidentally corrupted Corrupted your file system there for for a short while But I can already confirm that it's been fixed that that this uh fix has been backported in in several distros. Uh, Sorry debbie and you haven't you haven't backported it yet I miss butterfs Yeah, so, uh, of course, uh, I I just felt like it might be worthwhile to explain it because you know, maybe somebody out there actually ran into it But yeah, uh For the most part though, it's That was There there have also been performance improvements. So like uh, you it is still the fast It is still the most performant of the compression algorithms So, uh, it's it's pretty good And speaking of z std Uh, no, we're not talking about the sexual transmitting diseases Uh Not funny, great. It's not funny Uh, it's uh ABS will be using z std soon Surprisingly, I have absolutely Zero interest in compression algorithms. I don't know if that surprises anybody or not. I could You also don't have a root drive on your on your desktop computer. That's only 32 gigs in size No, I don't in fact have that so um Nope, I I think the smallest hard drive I have in the house is like 500 gigabytes. So I have uh, you want to know the smallest hard drive I have the smallest hard drive I have is 72 megabytes in size I used to have an eight megabyte hard drive That was the shit I don't this was this was also, uh, I mean I have floppy disk drives 20 years ago I got you guys saw some floppy disk drives around around. I had some cdrw's um, but those you know Have one hard drive. I don't know if you call it a hard drive because back in the day. What was it called? Uh from the 70s Yeah, it's part of a computer that my dad used to have you are so old steve. I'm just No, not me my my dad had it. I just found it in the attic But it's a hard drive is 64 kilobytes in size It's this big this thick and i'm not lying. It's this big Uh, and it's got a what we call in our slang manivel. It's a thing that you use to turn to A manual, uh, what do you call this in english? Uh a crank winding Finding thing to wind up the hard drive and gets In cases it gets in case it gets stuck Oh, it's like That's interesting. Yeah I found it in the attic and I still have it to this day because i'm a geek Oh, apparently, uh, debbie debbie already did backport patch. She just wasn't there when I looked Well, all right, let's go ahead move on to the next one. Um, I I know for you guys are watching this We're really sorry that we don't have better It was really fucking slow It was honestly the only the one thing I've been trying to actively avoid is the only thing that was relative That seemed newsworthy this week because it literally everybody mentioned it Uh ubuntu pushed to release a uh the first beta for 2304. Whoo. Whoo ubuntu is so boring too Or no not beta. I think it's actually a release candidate because it is april Yeah, they should be approaching the freeze here Wait a minute, isn't it come out on like the ninth or something? Uh, I think it's the 15th. I know it's sometime in the next week. Um, but also I don't know. I'm having so much trouble getting interested in ubuntu lately. Uh, I I've had it It's understandable. Uh, it's just boring. Anyways, that said good The most interesting thing about ubuntu right now is that they actually pushed a full fully version matching gnome stack for once Wait, really? Yeah, everything in mill 44. Really that could actually be interesting because it's been so Horrible, I mean sometimes they had like a three well at the same At the same time the last few releases for ubuntu have really just been like in the lts cycle. So the lts So, uh, we're we're in the middle of it right now So this is typically when ubuntu has historically always is like pushed out the new features Well, they're this would be the first one with the new installer, right? Yeah, this they also had the new installer. Yeah, I tried it. It was Why did I still we don't need to get into that? Let's go ahead and move on to the my first my first one is that uh, the pine 64's risk five single board computer is now available to the order star 64 This thing looks Pretty cool. I'm just gonna say that I don't know how well it will compare to other risk five things have been released But pine 64 usually tends to do a pretty good job of the stuff. I know they've done Uh, some of the some of the single board computer stuff before but this is their first risk five board Um, it's actually not their first one. It's actually their second All I know is in the first it says star 64 pine 64 is first risk five single board It's literally in the first sentence of the articles That's all I know is the first with a single board computers But it's not the very first product that they made using risk five because uh, they're they're uh, Soldering iron is actually a risk five chip and uh, they have a microcontroller that uses risk five too What you can flash it so that it is a single single board computer All the rest but one of those little nano nano ones Yeah, but anyways this thing has um a 1.5 gigahertz processor featuring Um, six a 600 megahertz a 600 megahertz gpu Um, it also has up to eight gigabytes of ldd are for memory and comes with a 32 bit risk five e24 cpu for real-time control Uh, like I said, I'm not sure how it will compare to other risk five stuff that's been coming out lately, but it's The one thing that uh Pine 64 does is they make this kind of stuff very easily available Like you can just go to their website and you can buy it like a lot of this Well, right now you can't because everything's out of stock. I'm sure because everything was always out of the stock But usually we you can go to their website and just get it And they're one of the companies that yeah, you can go there and you can see their stuff That's out of stock, but they get stuff back in stock quite often like they they refresh their inventory quite often So like the the pine book pro it's um, it's out of stock a lot, but you check back it comes back The unique thing about pine 64 is that uh, they're they're like the only relatively large single board computer company That does not that chew that purposely chooses not to sell to to uh corporations Uh, if you're going to buy a pine 64 product you buy through their website like a normal person Uh, that that's how they do it. Yeah, I have a few of their products, so I have a uh pine power or whatever it's called and I have a one of their smart watches and Yeah, it's garbage, but it's cool. Um, yeah, it's cool garbage. It's never seen Never seen you watch wear a watch Like literally I have one on my wrist every time I do a podcast um, but notice it I Prefer to have actual functionality and unfortunately the pine time or whatever it's fine But it doesn't compare with the galaxy watch, which is what I wear But it's still cool and I like to play around with it And uh, I think I'm gonna look into some other images because I think there are some other Other images for that you can try out probably buggy, but who cares it's like 26 bucks Like they're thinking it's stuff like cheap watch. Yeah, it's like $26. You can't even buy like a timex for $26 You know this thing this thing has like a you can't it has stuff in it that actually, you know works. It's cool. Um Anyways, I've been playing around with that. I've had that for quite a while And I have one of the other products, but too, but I don't remember what it is. Honestly I think it doesn't matter. Anyways, so I do have some other stuff And I'm thinking if this ever does the risk-cry thing ever comes back in stock I might get one of these because it's what is it like 60 60 was 86 dollars or The the expensive one is 90 dollars. Yeah Um, so it's not as cheap as some of the other sbcs that are out there But it's still I mean seriously not that expensive. So maybe something fun to play around with What what kind of I forgot and didn't look at the So it has some usbc stuff on it. Does it have built an yet has a built-in Ethan had on it. It has an open-ended pti express slot Right, it's only an x1 slot, but you can still you can still do a lot with with the pci express lane Uh, yeah, uh, let's see here More for lame, um Micro sd card slot um CSI port for Connecting a camera module. So this has a lot of io on it a lot of io Yeah, um cool. Anyways, yeah, that's the the pine 64 A star 64 they they really like that They're they're very good at maintaining their brand on that stuff. But anyways that stuff that is um Let me ask you guys this question things how you know, you know, we have some time Do you think that the perpetual out of stockness of the Raspberry pi is going to hurt it long term because it already has Because uh raspberry the raspberry pi foundation has actually allocated 50 of all the pies that they produce to to uh consume to corporate corporate interests and uh As a result a lot of the main uh a lot of their manufacturing contracts with uh I think uh the big one is uh cortex, which is the company that that makes their processors uh has all has already uh told them that uh That they're not going to renew the contract because uh their contract was that the pi is an educational device Because if you remember all the original advertisements for raspberry pi They were literally for people to tinker with and learn how to work on computers And uh, they are not doing that anymore So uh as a result all the other single board computer computer makers have actually gotten a lot of Influence behind them uh pine 64 not nearly as much as like uh some of the other ones like orange pie or latte panda or uh What's the other one like kudos or kardas or whatever? Uh, they've really stepped forward. Uh, even livery computer has actually seen an increase in sales as well Uh, which uh, if you don't know what li who livery computer is uh, they're they're They're like the free software foundation of the single board computers Yeah Well the reason why I ask because it just seems like um Basically every other week we cover a brand new sbc on on the podcast And it seems like more and more companies are you know, like small startups are getting into this kind of stuff And uh all all along the the raspberry Pie has just been sitting there. No one can buy it It's like three times the price if you wanted to you know, source one on ebay or something like that and the Raspberry Pi 4 is now two years old. I mean it's already two years old and we haven't even heard rumors of anything else new um So it's just it just feels like they're being a little bit left behind because of the I mean Because of the things you talked about josh, but also because they it felt like for therefore a while Like at the beginning of the chip shortage, they did fine But once the they really got hit by that chip shortage and just couldn't make anymore. They really had a problem But you know, uh, I'm still a big fan of like the pine 64 pine 64 products, uh, lighted uh You what if you're used to like a single board computers Uh, there is nothing that has the software support that the raspberry pi has which is really the primary driver of white people Focus so much on the raspberry pi. Why it's got such a mass ecosystem for it is purely because the software support is there Uh, the second best one at this point Is probably the orange pie and then like third third kid on the block is pine 64 So you have to remember that and a lot of the pine 64 products that they sell They actively tell you on on on the store page. Don't buy this if you want it to work Well, and yeah, almost almost all their products say hey, this is for development work only, right? um, yeah Which is obviously not uh, that's good. They surprisingly that notice is not on the star 64 So maybe they actually got some faith behind this one It'd be interesting just I wonder what image will be the most popular because you can probably put I don't know it doesn't matter. All right, let's go ahead and move on to the contact information If you want to get in contact with us, you can do so in any number of ways The best way is probably to head on over to the website Which is the linuxcast.org There you'll find past episodes and blog posts when I do post them which I have been getting back into that Lately so which that should that should be good Uh, you can follow the Channel or follow me. I should say on mastodon and odyssey and all those places those links will be in the video description Or in the podcast description if you're listening to the audio version lately You can follow josh at tenley j.com slash stalker Steve is on youtube at youtube.com slash at zero linux zero with an x That's right, right? Yeah, okay. I I don't have in front of me. So I can't I I'm literally doing I'm doing off the tip of my head Anyway, so make sure you give those guys a follow You can also find all of our contact information at the linuxcast.org Slash contact there. You'll find other links for the fellas Along with all of this stuff including links to the telegram channel the store that zany runs You know Any number of other things that I've probably forgotten exists the discord which just went over a thousand So if you're not on the discord come join us. We have a lot of fun over there And uh, finally, uh, subscribe to linuxcast at youtube.com slash the linux cast if you haven't already I truly do appreciate everybody who has uh Subscribe to the channel and you can support me on on patreon at patreon.com slash the linux cast That's the contact information which I did completely without it in front of me, which I think is um pretty impressive Can consider that I you did you did that pretty good Usually I mess up with it in front of me. So the fact that I did it Better without it. It's probably pretty good. So, uh, steve Let's go ahead and We're gonna steal late late linux's kd corner Apparently because we're gonna cover some kd stuff. So steve you're uh kd news for the week, please Yeah, we can't hear a word. You're saying Did you mute yourself in discord? No, we didn't see the mute notification. Yeah the mute you know I can't so he's not muted Pipe wire strikes you you shouldn't have said all those bad things about pipe wire steve. It's getting you back, man All right, well, we're uh, steve still can't hear you man. Nope We see your we see your Uh lips are moving Nope. Yeah You you could be shouting into that thing We still can't hear you um He might need to close discord and reopen it maybe But it's it's fine because I read this news article too Okay, but I just purposely chose not to cover it because I I kind of figured steve was going to talk about it Everything let's see katie news. I was like, I am leaving that for steve Yep Steve while while we're covering this just go ahead and uh restart discord and see if that fixes it But anyways, uh, the katie framework says pushed out another update improving support for flat packs and even updating the breeze icon theme You know that icon theme which is typically the first thing that a lot of people that Decide that they're going to make katie look better. They're gonna change it. Yeah That said I I'm I'm still an advocate that you should always use have breeze installed on the system at least because it is the fallback icon Set for katie. Oh, yeah, don't uninstall don't uninstall Here's the thing. All right, let's just talk about this for a second. Don't ever uninstall an icon pack from katie Once you install it ever. Yeah It's just a really bad idea because you'll never get you'll never get to work properly if you uninstall stuff There's a reason why you can never remove at the at anything at wita from gnome because uh For just that reason because they are the fallback icon sets for the environment They see we can hear you now. Yeah I had to unplug and replug and but my recording software stopped recording Yeah, I hear I was blaming Josh prematurely for the us having to use the backup recording turns out it's steve salt. That's fantastic Okay, uh, I can I can resume recording, uh, but the recording is gonna be out of whack I don't know if you can don't know don't don't even bother. Don't worry about it. We'll just use the backup Um, okay. Sorry. I don't know what happened. I just deleted something from the folder You know the notification sound it plays it froze all the audio Oh boy Okay, so let's just let's just take a moment to digest what he just said I deleted something from the folder is never a good sentence to start off with when you're recording a podcast I'm just saying don't delete stuff on linux. If unless you know what you're what you're deleting man. Come on I'm deleting. I was deleting just how I see it Here's how I see it from my repo He he's using arch linux. So let's just blame arch linux Yeah, you should definitely be using gen 2. I'm sure it's better No, I was just deleting a file from my repository to because I was updating, uh, water fox and mercury adding re mercury fox And all that to my repository. Yeah, we should definitely not be doing that during the podcast because things go wrong, man I don't touch the computer from now on. Yeah, don't touch don't touch you during the podcast. I'm just saying Well, he went through my uh my article. So I have nothing else to say but, uh I didn't receive the update yet. It might be a few days until I do But hopefully something gets fixed. That's all I care about Something gets fixed on my end because I'm I'm Wrestling as straws here Well, the the important thing about the kde stack is that kde frameworks is actually like the back end of kde It's like your core libraries the things that actually that kde relies on to actually do stuff So you're not going to get anything Visibly new Uh, what what you're going to do is just uh, see think things work a little bit more reliably Uh, in this case here There's some new apis for flat pack integration and The vres icon the vres icon theme like I said, uh, there there's also been some slight changes Yeah, the flat packs do the file indexing service Yeah, the baloo the the baloo I went through the article. So I know, uh, the the baloo file indexer now doesn't use, uh, the, uh The thing it was using the null Uh, what's it called? It's not using python anymore. It's not using the virtual and folders and it's not going to be doing It's going to stop indexing unprintable characters into the database, which yeah That cost it cost it That cost it to cost it to cause slowdowns and Cp, uh, oh I CPU usage Uh, so now we can re-enable it I guess also, uh KDE frameworks improved the kirigami based apps to correctly Showing a radio button in menus with many, uh, mutually exclusive items rather than checkbox So that needed work for a while and I even reported it on upstream. They only now work on it. That took them a while Uh The single biggest thing if you're a k-t user You have qml required key wording for syntax highlighting Well, yeah, I In k8. I I always whenever because I use kate as my default text editor because kde. Why not? Uh, I always got this exact error at the bottom. You know, uh, kate has a Error reporter at the bottom It's it's a button that keeps flashing in orange or whatever color your theme is the theme you're using It keeps flashing flashing flashing when you click on it. It's exactly that error message So I guess they finally addressed it. Yeah, they finally addressed it I'm like, okay kde I I am for once My in my kde usage life. I am with matt on this one Stop adding features and take care of them bugs. It's never Ever going to happen. They're they're incapable of doing it. It's just it's just not it's just not It's not the way their project is built their project is built to continually add and I'm so the thing the problem here got and All right, so I'm gonna say this knowing that it's also not true But it feels unsustainable But we know that it is sustainable because kady's been doing this for 25 30 years however long kady's been around This is just the way kady has always done stuff. They've added new features constantly. That's what they do And uh, they do their best to fix bugs, but if you Audience if you want to have the time of your nerd life Go troll through the kde bug reporter system like you'll just be astonished Like that thing has hundreds of thousands of bugs just laying there some of them From years and years ago Um now that's not any different than any other major big project, but it feels Bigger on the kde part because it just feels like they have way more Like if you just go there and search for the case the case screen one the case screen one had like 720 bugs or something Like that. Maybe it was like 270. It was hundreds of bugs just for that one service Well, it's uh, people might get shocked Uh when I when me a kde uh super simp will say this but I use gnome to relax Because with the amount with the busyness of kde and the constant movement of kde I use gnome to relax I just want to work on something. I just don't want to see all this Uh Not visually i'm just talking uh, I don't want to click more than twice or three times to get to to what i'm doing Sometimes you just don't feel like Sometimes you just don't want to tinker and kde is a little bit too friendly on the people that like to tinker. Yeah um, yeah That's why I uh That's one of the other reasons I wanted to bring xfce back because xfce is light and is customizable and it still uses gtk2 3 slash 3 Libraries, so You can do whatever you want with it and I love the fact that it's css You can For example, I have the zero index hello tool instead of adding it in the app menu. I can just add a Launch thing in the set in the xfce settings if I wanted to Uh, so, uh, I like xfce. I have nothing against xfce. It's just When you look at it from the point of view of a maintainer like I was telling josh before the before the stream Uh, when you look at it from a distral maintainer point of view and you have a certain you're used to a certain workflow xfce Doesn't work for kde workflow people uh but Like for example in in kde, I have a certain workflow in dolphin I have enabled the uh green checkmarks for Github it shows you the green checkmark if it's in sync with uh with upstream and a yellow or orange Explanation mark for files that are different from up. I mean, okay, so it's it's completely unfair to Compare the features that dolphin has the features that thunar not i'm not i'm not comparing i'm not comparing features Don't get me wrong It's a workflow. Well, you can you can do Anything in dolphin dolphin has as many features as crusader does well not quite but it it's getting there, right? It's just that's a it's just a completely different animal. It's yeah, I know It is There's not it's not fair to compare them. I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying from the workflow that i'm used to The distral maintainer if you get used to this dolphin or crusader It's it gets it's hard to switch to something else. Yeah, exactly like my my workflow is disrupted When I use something else that's completely disrupted That's the reason why I love crusader so much because you can take it anywhere Even if you do have to download the entire kde stack in order to use it Yeah, well So xfce will be making a comeback I will be using it from time to time in a vm because that thing flies in a vm flies like I've never seen anything fly even window managers It flies like window managers in a vm minus wayland stuff, but Workflow it's all about workflow kde doesn't It has a few things that That help workflow wise, but you know It's like a peaceful workflow environment a very peaceful one Whereas kde it's a clunky one. You have to do a million things at the same time just to do To get to a one-end result With gnome it's I feel more at peace in in gnome for some reason it's I look at it because it's like macOS. It's Very macOS like in like those other features We are including we don't care about anything else. We care about This this this and that This is how how we do it and when when you don't expect Your desktop environment to do more than it was intended to do macOS users do for example, they don't expect macOS to do more than it does they Now live with it and the way it is if you live with gnome It's gonna work just fine. It's like For me. I now I see you. I understand when people say gnome Is for people who just want to earn on the computer Get to work Yes, gnome sucks. All right. I'm gonna need to move on guys The gnome sucks. Yeah, I I just like to troll the gnome guys. It's so much fun. Yeah. Um anyways, let's go ahead Can I'm just I'm just pushing us. It's fine because I I guarantee you I'm gonna be talking about gnome Oh good You'll get some more time to to Go on about gnome. Well, specifically though, I'm not gonna be talking about gnome I'm actually gonna be talking about red hat, which, you know, if if there's anybody that's uh Been contributing quite heavily to gnome to the point where they've effectively taken over the project it's red hat because Just this week. In fact, uh, just a few days ago. Actually red hat turned 30 and uh I'm gonna link this in the chat, but linux. I got this article from, uh, linuxiac.com Not a website that I frequent very often because uh, they've got that weird name and honestly They don't normally post like a super great article every now and then but they but uh, Bobby Borosov knocked out of the park with this article It is actually very well detailed on like the history of red hat over the 30 years that they've existed I actually didn't know that red hat actually came out before the linux kernel was even released But uh That's the that's really the news is that red hat turned 30 But uh, you know, it's talking about like the history of red hat starting in 1993 Uh It was one of it's what was one of the first linux distributions It released about the same time same time slack ware debbie and and susa released and uh He goes to call call it the magnificent foursome or and realistically There's only really like five Five six or seven really unique distros and everything is just downstream for them But uh, you can see where it where he's He's even got like the old logos for red hat in here, too Which uh, it it's great Like uh, you have red hat software because red hats started as a software company They weren't really like a linux server Uh red red hat when it first came out is that they were making software for unix at the time And then uh And then linux sort of all is released the linux kernel Which means that you had the system that was like unix, but it wasn't unix And then the biggest the biggest thing that uh Is not mentioned this article is that the the real big thing that red hat had going for them in the 90s Is that they actually managed to pick up a couple contracts with these big companies like one of them called Pixar the other one called dreamworks Uh, I I imagine that if you watched a disney movie in like the past 20 years, you probably know those two names, but uh They they actually worked on porting animation software that was purpose designed for unix to linux uh, so and uh It's it's not like a blender, but it was it was I can't remember the name of the software that they that they worked But uh, that's where they got their initial rounds of funding And then uh, you could you could see that uh the actual first release date for red hat the The linux distribution red hat not not rel so not enterprise linux yet uh 1994 and then uh 95 they they Actually hit 1.0 and they use the walking man logo Uh honestly like if you just want like a good read that's what this article is And I just want to share it with everybody Yeah, well 30 Yeah 30 30 years And uh, you know Talk about like the things that that red hat has done they've made the linux server relevant because Without before red hat actually started releasing red hat as the server edition nobody else was because It before red hat did it everybody just thought that linux was just like a desktop operating system Nobody ever actually took it took it seriously for like a server usage Uh, they they are They are the gnome foundation So it's just like they gave us gnome and the gtk toolkit, which at this point is basically like at least Somewhere in the 60 range of Of the linux desktop experience I mean, yeah, a lot a lot of stuff like they've had a big thing in like system d xorg pulse audio pipe wire wailand I mean You look at the list of stuff that they've had a big uh Hand in and it makes you wonder what the hell is canonical doing, you know Like like did canonical do actually anything? Everybody took everything from red hat and they molded it Well, the only thing that canonical really did relevant was because red hat was so embedded in like the server Uh canonical was the one that actually pushed the desktop desktop linux. Yeah, I know I'm yeah I that was mostly tongue in cheek, but it just because it like every Background process that you think of that you think you know that runs the what you're using as linux basically red hat had a hand in I mean A lot of the times it started off as another project and then they just kind of started contributing to it, but Um, some of them they started from the beginning. So I mean like network manager. Come on And honestly when when you see like company on like the skill red hat and effectively Serving a product that is actually free Well, it's it's kind of amazing that they were a multi-billion dollar company before IBM bottom That's one of the reasons why I always push back on people who are so anti corporate when it comes to stuff like like you you can complain a lot about the Corporate influence of the linux foundation like, you know microsoft and google have a big part in the linux foundation and stuff like that, but a lot of people just absolutely hate red hat like and I don't I've never understood it because If you didn't have red hat if if red hat had just been A few random developers who made no money linux wouldn't be here Right, we'd still be using our our audio system would still be sndio and os s Yeah, like you couldn't not have linux as it is today without red hat Same thing with with canonical like you Canonical push things forward as well and made things more popular and got more developers interested in all this stuff So you can give credit to canonical as well and and susa has you know some putting in there as well but you Without the corporate backing of those companies that actually made money A lot of this stuff like I mean we bitch about how bad audio is and we've had our audio issues today But audio 10 years ago on linux was a hundred times worse It was I mean a hundred times worse. Maybe a thousand times worse. It was so So bad and it was so bad to the point where it's just like uh If you you had if you bought a motherboard with integrated audio It was just straight up not going to work for you whatsoever So linux users were still buying sound cards went at at the dawn of the end of sound cards And uh, specifically they were specifically you were buying one model of sound card and by the time uh pulse audio came around It was glorious and that's why everybody pushed push pulse audio so hard serving it before it actually even hit stable That's how excited we were for it And you're talking about what are you talking about josh? I'm running a creative sound card in my system Oh, I mean nowadays you are some some people can use sound cards still today, but Another area And we still have problems with you know proprietary wi-fi cards, right? We still have some of those issues but 10 years ago you can complain all you want about proprietary wi-fi cards right now Yes, there's still a problem, but 10 years ago wi-fi just didn't work on linux unless you you had like one wi-fi card that actually you know You got lost in a driver. It had to be it had to be intel, right? Absolutely had to be intel now anything else wasn't going to work now. It's way but now it's way way better so Uh, and all that stuff can be contributed to the fact that they had there's the ability You know there was money behind The developers who were able to work on this stuff to actually make it work and they had incentive to do so Not just because of the linux desktop But because they were so successful in the server space they had to get have a lot of the stuff plus a lot of their Clients or whatever adopted linux on the desktop too So it's just I don't I don't understand people who are so anti red at anti Microsoft google fine, but I don't understand the anti red head. So on an unrelated note I want to ask both of your opinions uh What do you think about The uh, it's a the current state of of linux since we're a little bit on the subject uh What do you think is some people uh say that Like one of them being me But uh, we think there's a group of us who think that linux could have been a hundred times better by growing How should I put it? Uh It didn't get politicized each Or de or whatever in the linux sphere Like hated each other Or didn't like to mix with each other or things like that it's I I used to think about it in in such a way where uh, it was If the hate was causing linux to die and it's never it was never really hate that held linux back It was people not understanding like the free software mission the open source mission On top of the sheer massive influence that was Microsoft in the late 90s and early 2000s Well, okay, okay Okay, it was those things, but it was that's not the the majority the reason why linux never took off was because it's never on hardware That you can go buy you can't you can't go into best buy and buy a laptop with linux on it You probably you can't you can now Because you can go buy chromo s a book right, but you can't go I mean You you can go on lenovo's website or ibm's website back in the day and actually buy You know a desktop or a computer with linux on you just couldn't do it I mean you can now but you know 10 years ago that was basically unheard of 20 years ago you can it was just it was impossible you had you had to install it Did you hear that? frameworks There's a distro that's being worked on for the frameworks laptop Yeah I think it's going to be debbie and or ubuntu base It probably is sure probably will be the the the point out. I was making it was just that The reason I mean we Tyler and I've talked about this before you guys joined the podcast but the the the the majority reason why linux never took off was just because of hardware availability and Oh, that can be contributed to what you said josh that the that microsoft was able to use their Influence and stuff like that to basically incentivize hardware vendors to use windows right that they were able to Yeah, it's just like uh Plus you get back in the back in the 90s when hardware supported on linux was a problem no matter what somebody in the chat said, you know Windows 95 windows 98 Basically worked on everything, you know, it didn't matter, you know because all the hardware thing that everything that uh, all the hardware was all the hardware was made for it Because that and because that was true it worked on everything you could you know Vendors could use Basically, whatever they wanted and because things were being developed for it You know before windows they could you know, they had a much broader selection Whereas if you wanted to put linux on something back then, you know, you had to have a very select You know selection of hardware in order to get it to all work properly and then she wanted to you know tinker with it Like you could get basically anything to work 25 years ago on linux, you know, just to you know, whatever But you had to put work and effort into it. It wasn't just hey, this thing works out of the box and you know It's it has linux has grown A lot, but the the point I was making was it could have grown much bigger It weren't for for people holding grudges against each other and Going well here. Here's the thing steve Have you looked at the server market? Oh, I'm not talking server. I'm talking desktop linux. Well, I know desktop. I I know you're talking desktop But linux has grown and it is massive because it is it is 90 of all the internet Internet service and that and it was able to do that with You know all the infighting and stuff over, you know Standards and stuff like that it's because the the people the the companies that have done So well in the server space don't care about the fact that you know system d comes from red hat You know what I mean? They just use system d, you know And oh they don't care about the the infighting Yeah, there's infighting between the the individual companies like they you know, they can they compete against each other But there's not a small fraction of people inside a red red hat or whatever that are like, oh, we don't like system d We're just gonna use run it instead, you know And I think that's what you're talking about steve is in the desktop market when people Don't like something they fork it and create something else, right? And there's this lack of standardization, right? Yeah in the server market There are standards, right? Yeah, they use different server. They use different distros But they all have the underlying same underlying technology and stuff Same with the same same with like I was telling josh before the stream same like With zero linux, for example, I set a set of standards You need to follow if you want to fork a zero linux and to create a spin or I watched distro hacking likes last night. There are no standards. I'm just Okay, yeah, he did whatever he wanted to do. Um, it didn't work, but I mean, I mean standards if if somebody wants to come and be a If they if they want to be an official flavor, I understand what you mean. I was just yeah. Yes, exactly. So, uh, it's We have a guideline not standards. I should have said guidelines If you don't want to abide by those guidelines You create your own distro. That's That's the core problem Like each of us have guidelines that don't agree with each other and Some reason instead of being On good terms We start to Fight each other. You're you're right that there's a lack of cooperation Like everyone has to create their own package manager, right? Like there there's every everyone right like I understand I understand That that's a problem and we've talked about fragmentation and stuff in the linux space before as a distro maintainer You start to see those unravel in front of your eyes, but when you're just a user you don't but I'm gonna disagree with you that that's the problem like First of all, let's One of the problems not the whether you see it as a problem or not even is going to be Determine your point of view because a lot of people think that that's the best part about open source because you can If you don't like something you can take it and you can go do your own thing with that. Yes This is the best part, but at the same time shouldn't fight The person that doesn't like what you're doing Uh with the the code again, I understand that that stuff happens, but I don't think that that's the That's not the it if it contributed to linux not taking off You know It was such a small part because the the the biggest part has always been You know the lack of it being on hardware that people can buy because if if that's the biggest reason that's the and but But to to kind of take what you're talking about one of the things that does happen because of the fragmentation is that it makes it really hard for Linux to advertise, right? It's really hard to advertise in market a Piece of software that is so Fragmented over, you know, many different things, right? But even that Is such a small part of it. I I think case in case in point for example, uh, you have system 76, right? They they they're a hardware manufacturer that Are linux based But their distro only works on their hardware So it's kind of not just a hardware. No, that's not true You get you can make you can make it with a lot of work You can make it run on anything. I hear nate not even a lot of work I hear nate from the discord just shouting at you right now I mean Like papa west works on a lot of different district a lot of different hardware No, I'm not talking about pop popos. I'm talking on the the the System 76 os or whatever not system 76. That is popo s man. That's system 76 o s other one No, the talking about tuxedo s or whatever tuxedo. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, that that's sorry. Sorry. Yeah Yeah, that's a different company. I think that's uh tuxedo computers that makes a yeah, literally no one cares About tuxedo s and that's because they if that's the what we're thinking talking about is true Like I don't I don't even know but if they've just made it for their own Hardware there's there are parts of it like some of the tools that they use on their hardware that is on the aur For example, but basically what they've done is they've made a proprietary system out of linux, which is fine Yes, you you can do that if that's what you want to do But I mean it's just I mean if you install a gen to that's literally what you do So, I mean it's just it's it's okay Um, anyways guys, let's move on to the the last story, which is mine Uh, we don't have to spend a lot of time on this because it doesn't really matter But the steam deck apparently has sold about 3 million Uh units in 2023 now that's 3 million units during 2023 um The apparently a hit This article doesn't really make clear whether that's just 3 million during this year Or if that's 3 million in total It it's kind of confusing because they they said we already knew that it hit 1 million in 2022 um, so it does I think I think it's a total total sale I think so too, but that's not really what the headline makes it seem like because it says during 2023 they sold 3 million Poor headlines from gaming on linux. Sorry guys, but anyways they they've sold millions of these things But like we talked like tyler and I talked about when we this first started it was never Anybody who had expectations for this thing out selling like the nintendo switch was just asking for disappointment It was just never going to sell that many But I still think that 3 million whether that's you know, just this year or collectively Is still pretty impressive the fact that I mean that's a lot of linux machines out there that weren't out there before So that's pretty cool And honestly like a 3 million 3 million units on was basically actually a first generation product Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, well and one where at the beginning it was there was such a Unknown of whether or not they were going to get it so that you could play the majority of games on it And uh, that question has been answered. You can play the vast majority of games on the steam deck, which is Awesome, it's really cool. I should have Not always well, but you can do it I should have selected that use story for for today's stream. It would have been a fresh And you know, it does run kde so that could have been your kde story No, I should I should have selected the following story Chimera os now runs on the steam deck What the oh, that's cool. What the hell is chimera or west? I don't even know what that is Oh matt you're in the linux world and you don't know what chimera os is Chimera os is a gaming distro that has existed for a long time and now they released version 4.1 that runs on the steam deck and Uh, it doesn't run kde it runs, you know, never heard Uh, it it was I think it's one of these super early Uh, elixirs that advertise that this is a distro for video games Yeah, it's been around for a while It's been around for a long time and uh, they even gave access to all their tools They're on the aur and they are the ones who put them on the aur not some weirdo Maintainer they put them on the aur. So any distro can take the uh linux. I mean the steam ui thing the So they call it I forgot Big picture you can just Not big picture mode. It's the steam deck ui steam os I'm just throwing out words. So one of the ones is gonna be what you're thinking of No, it has a special name. Uh, but anyway, halo halo halo or something That's one of holo isl I I don't let's just come on. We're gonna sit here and think of this word for the next 20 minutes Whatever whatever the tool the the name of the package is You have all the the package and all its dependencies available on the ui You can just include them on your distro configure them The correct way and you can Release a steam deck friendly, uh, distro They did do it so well Apparently according to eta prime because he's the one who reviewed it The video I watched basically It runs a little bit better than steam oi For some reason they've done so many optimizations that it runs very well on the steam deck and And the best part of this Part is any portable handheld in the steam deck format Run this distro. So basically You can have multiple steam decks on your hands Your emphasis on any really blew out your microphone there, bro You You don't got a shout man. It's okay with the microphone to pick you up. All right Let's go ahead and move on to the last section of the podcast This is the the the end of the show where we'd like to go on to the thingies Of the week and we call them the thingies of the week because well We had nothing else to call them everything else's trademark. So Uh, josh your thingy of the week Well, uh, if you might not have noticed, uh, my youtube channel has Actually been releasing videos again So it's been active. I even I even did distro hacking last night as you as you've pointed out several times now Very exciting. So, uh, I I'm back. I'm creating content. I actually recorded 17 videos this week, too So, uh, I have fallen back on the tried and true kaden live Which is my pick this week because it is still honestly and I have and I've tried quite a few of them now The the uh, the best video editor In my personal opinion on linux. I don't even get another win for kde another win for kde. It's just it's just the best The rest of them are varying shades of awful I mean kde wins again The venture resolve it works. I've tried it. I've used it but uh I just I just can't get used to like the workflow. I've tried open shot And I can't find a I can't find a render button and shot. Well I've never been able to get the venture resolve to actually work on my hardware. They have some really weird hardware Open shot feels a little bit too basic Uh, uh shot Shot cut for the longest time. I couldn't figure out how to put anything on the timeline So supposedly all the olive editor or whatever is going to be like the future of video editing It's the future, but how long have they how long has it been? They've had a release it's been alpha for a long It's been it's been alpha since like day one and while the vert while the version two of it I think version zero point two of it seems really really fascinating and amazing You have to also realize there's only like four people working on it. It's a video editor They were also rewriting a whole bunch of stuff from version zero point one And they were they were they were rebooting from the bottom up. Yeah, they are still rebooting from the Which is just that's not like and you should at least get the seven years You should at least get that to version 1.0 before you start rebuilding stuff already Because it doesn't bode well for consistency of your product project. But anyways, uh, steve, you're thinking of the week My uh, my thingy of the week is called glade Glade is a GUI Sign tool I think it's gtk. I don't remember But the reason I picked it is because it's what I used with the help of Nef Gordon Vlad Create the zero hello tool and it made it easy for me to modify Uh in the early stages when uh, we first started using it. It was a crash tastic application All right. Now it's way more stable. I use it as a flat pack and It makes it so easy to create your GUI app. It does how it does not however Uh bode well when you want to write the actual code For the gu don't shout into your microphone Not shouting He's getting excited Sorry, it's too close to my mouth. I know his his method of speaking is he likes to put emphasis on certain words It's it's adorable, but it also means that when he shouts out code my microphones set on fire Sorry, sorry, steve. It's okay. Go ahead and go Picture it in post. It's gonna be all right So it Do not use it for For coding the actual coding you write in in a different language, but you can you you can use this application to attach Buttons for example to actual code, but you have to write the code somewhere else But it's a wonderful and easy app to use It's much simpler than qt creator. Although I am a kde user I found qt creator to be way more complex And um, uh, then glade glade just makes it simple and is easy to use Steve, uh, can can I point something out to you because I I found glade on I found a git repo And I'm reading the read me and it says that glade is not actively being developed or maintained Oh, it received an update on flatback So I mean the flatback might have received an update just like fix a packaging It's possible somebody forked it and we just don't know. Yeah It's it's also possible too. I I don't know what's going on with the flatback for but Uh, I'm on the git lab dot gnome dot org where it's where the official code is supposedly hosted And there's a message saying that's not being actively developed Works If it works it works Well, it used to be crash-tastic when I started using it like early last year I think uh I don't know, but it still works. Uh, it received a few updates on flat hub. So Now it's works. It doesn't crash and I still use it. Uh, I created a couple applications since internally for me Instead of having to run the script in terminal, I just created gui like I use it like I used to use yad Basically, I just create a front end for scripts Cool. All right. My thingy of the week is an android application actually And it is called stealth now I know what the open source community thinks of reddit for the most part, but you know, whatever Uh stealth is actually a privacy focused open source Uh reddit application you can't even sign into the thing So it doesn't take or collect any of your information and it's very well designed you can Quote-unquote subscribe to subreddit so you can follow them. Um But it doesn't you if you want to I can't comment No, you can't you can't comment you can't share you can't vote up or anything like that It's just for browsing. So if you're privacy focused, but and you want to get onto Red hat stealth is a good option. It is an asteroid And it's just very very well designed and it does a good job And if the cool thing about it is if you wanted to Take your subscriptions from the application and move it to another phone or you know Android tablet or something like that. You can easily export them So you can move them from device to device And it's it's really well designed. It works really really well And like I said, you can't even it signing in is not even an option It's just a matter of browsing through reddit and it's what I've been using other than Rather than a reddit app for a little while and it's really good. So definitely check that out Well, I have a question for you matt. Did you did you drop by the tlc irc? No, uh, I was not even aware that it existed until like yesterday Um, so that is not official, but I don't care that it exists Um, I Honestly, I have signed into irc exactly one time in the last five years. Um, probably couldn't remember how to do it now The other day was the first time since the 90s. I logged into an irc I'm in an irc chat right now Good for you I It's just I have I'm on discord. I understand what people think of discord, but I just that's what I mean people it's just on discord. So there's legitimate use to use for discord I've been looking into alternatives for discord Uh, not that the discord server is going to go away or anything But just sort because I know there's a lot of people who out there who want to use Like an open source something or the other for Discord and and not use discord, right? No, no, no, not like a like an open source version of discord. Like I mean an actual alternative Like, um, the only the only other real alternative for a discord that I see that That's available is matrix. Yeah, that's what I've been That's what a lot of people want me to do is matrix, but I don't want to do a bridge But because I've heard some horrible horrible horrid, you know terrible fighting stories about them thing Breaking all the time breaking more than did you see? I love I love what jdog did To the server to to the point where I made him admin on mine and I'm asked him to replicate that Yeah, he should work for discord um but um But anyways, I looked at I looked at matrix apparently there's something called revolt which is apparently The most hackable thing ever because apparently it's been hacked many times I don't I don't even know if that's true But somebody told me so I assume that at least has some truth to it and then uh Somebody mentioned like creating like a matter most thing. Um, but that looks more like a yeah, there's matter most I was mostly like a forum kind of type thing. I don't it's not actually like matter matter most is like slack Um anyways, I've been looking at alternatives. I don't know where I'll eventually go I'll just say you screw it if you want to We'll just stay with discord, but the discord's not going anywhere. So anyways, that's it for this episode guys Uh, we have to pop out of here. We've actually we actually somehow managed to get an hour and a half Out of these topics, which is just astonishingly shocking. Um, considering that you know, they were such as they were so Anyways, uh, make sure you head on over to the website the linuxcast.org youtube.com slash linux cast Thanks to everybody who does support me on patreon and youtube you guys are all absolutely amazing without you the channels Which not be anywhere near where it is right now So thank you so very very much for each report you guys are all awesome Uh, we record this live every saturday around 3 o'clock p.m. Eastern time We usually go for about two hours because we can't help ourselves But talk about other things that are not on the list It's just impossible. So if you like rambles if you like linux Make sure you head on over here and watch us live every saturday. If not, you can always watch the replay Which is uh, just stays on youtube before alternative. There's also an audio version Which you can check out on all of your podcasting applications Just by searching for the linux cast. Thanks everybody for watching We'll see you next week Bye