 crowd would show up for the Adela's Muertos Festival this year, but we had over 400 people. And that's a really considering COVID and everything. That's a great turnout. And people were very well behaved. They were wearing their masks and we didn't have to yell at anybody. Yes, I know I heard I was, I was, I had everything ready to go, but my husband's been sick for the last five days. And we are going to get he's going to get a COVID test. But it's just I didn't want to take the chance. And I didn't think that was right, even though I'm feeling well, wasn't right to hang out with a bunch of other people when you have someone that's really sick at home. Yeah. Yeah, we're we're going to be putting some photos and video up on our website shortly. But we had a wonderful performance by ballet folklorico, the pedaluma, just really, really great. They performed for us multiple times before. And they're just really beautiful dancers. And, and the exhibition is ongoing for another three weeks. So everybody come see our day of the head exhibition, please. Okay, absolutely. And that exposition that you have in your background to I saw that that was quite a few years ago. That was a no, no, no, it's on view right now. Oh, that one is again? Well, so we this is all from our permanent collection. So you're probably noticing a couple of pieces in the background that have been on exhibit before. But because it's museums permanent collection is on view right now, we pulled some of those out again, plus some new things, brand new acquisitions. So everything on view at the museum right now is from the permanent collection through the end of this month. And then we're going to just start changing things over. Aileen, do we know if Nathan is going to join us or should we get started? I'm gonna say probably go ahead and get started. And if I see him come in, I will I will have the meeting. Okay. Um, are we ready, Eileen? We are. I call this meeting to order pursuant to government code section 54953 E and the recommendation of the health officer of the County of Sonoma, the Art and Public Places Committee will be participating in this meeting via zoom webinar. Members of the public may view and listen to the meeting is noted on the city's website and are noted on the agenda. The recording secretary will now review how the public may comment. Eileen members of the public wishing to speak during item 4.1 or item three public comment will be able to do so by utilizing the raised hand feature or by pressing star nine on their phone, they will then be given the ability to address the committee. Thank you. Item two, the recording secretary will now take roll. Vice Chair Jones Carter. Present. Member Fuentes. Member Nathanson. Present. Member Baumgartner. Present. The record reflect that Chair Keeper is unable to attend today and that member Adzirian is not present. Three public comments. This is the time when any person may address matters not listed on the agenda, but which are within the subject matter of the jurisdiction. The public may comment on agenda items when the item is called. Each speaker is allowed three minutes. If you wish to make a comment via zoom, please select the raised hand button. If you're dialing in via telephone, please dial star nine to raise your hand. Do we have any members of the public who wish to make comment on art and public places items that are not on the agenda? We have no raised hands at this time, nor do we have any voicemail or email comments for this meeting. Okay. Comments will be heard on specific agenda items at the end of this item is called now moving on to item four scheduled items. The purpose of this special meeting. I won't comment there is to revisit the the item that was tabled at the present at the request of the committee so that additional information could be provided. Staff will provide additional information as requested for the Fifth Street Parking Garage Public Art Project. Tara and David. Thank you, Melanie. I'll just start off by saying that the artists provided an additional statement of our request and that was attached to this agenda listed as artist statement. So you should have all received that it was also on the published agenda as was the original presentation. So given that that artist statement is the new piece of information we're bringing today, I'll just start off by by kind of framing the discussion that I think might be helpful for today, which is that David and I as well as Sakura Shields, who's the city's diversity inclusion and equal employment officer, we're all here to help support any conversation and discussion about either of these kind of two areas that that I see perhaps as a part of today's item. So one, what is needed today for the committee to move forward with a decision about this mural and this design and was the artist statement helpful to that conversation? And then secondly, I think that the question that came up last meeting and the kind of questioning and discussion that has come forward about this issue brings up, I think, just a very good conversation, a needed conversation and something that I feel like is bigger than just this mural project, which is kind of what what additional discussion and research and support can staff provide the committee to address the larger issues of cultural appropriation, equity and diversity in public art projects? And I would like to encourage that we revisit that second item at a separate meeting where we can agendize a bigger discussion, provide research materials, whatever else might be helpful in that as well as includes Sakura, as she can bring a lot more information broader than just the public art program, but kind of citywide information to that discussion. So I just wanted to start off by framing today in that way. Hopefully that's helpful, but to really, you know, steer the conversation about this item to that first point I made about what is needed for this design and for this project to move forward was the artist statement helpful. So I'll open it up to David and Sakura, if you want to join in and say anything at this point. Otherwise, I'll turn it back over to Melanie. Thank you. I'll just make a brief, quick statement and I want to appreciate the work of the committee I was able to review the last video and to Tara's points, I think the conversations are warranted and thoughtful and I will be very rich and there do seem to be kind of two separate issues at hand. And so I look forward to being on this journey with you and your art expertise certainly will lead the way and that these conversations are, I think, very specifically about shared meaning making across this group across the community. So they're ongoing. There's no one right answer in us. I think, you know, in this art lens, there's there are a lot of questions that we just have to discuss and uplift. And I look forward to those as they come forward. And I think I just want to add one. I think Tara kind of captured exactly what our conversation was like with MJ and Joshua. I just wanted to add that they were the artists were very as to hear that the conversation had gone that deep and that all were being considered at this level. So I just wanted to make sure that that was said as well out to the committee as well. So I don't really have much more to add them. David, could could could you restate that last sentence? It broke up for me your your sentence. Just that you started with artists the rest. That's what you said. Oh, it was just that they they appreciated how considerate the committee was. Got it. OK, got you. I just just I missed a couple words. Thank you. No problem. To any committee members have clarifying questions for staff regarding this update. If so, please physically raise your hand. Lisa. Yes, I did. I read their statement and I appreciated what they had to say and it did clarify some of the questions that we did have. And I did have a better understanding and I why it looked the way it did and who they used. I my only concern would be if someone did out, you know, someone who didn't know the background and why they did that and what that represents and the model that they did use. If someone questioned that because they wouldn't know the background and I just for anybody else, I mean, even Sarkozo or any David or anything have a little more say on that and it just. I just needed to be more clarified or something to make make it OK, I guess you could say. I have a question. So are we doing discussion? Are we doing questions? Oh, thank you, Tara, as to you, Tara. Yeah, sorry. Technically, the motion is still on the table. Eileen, correct me if I'm wrong. I think we can have a fluid question slash discussion at this point without needing to make a new motion. Is that correct? That is correct. It can be restated for the record what emotion that is on the table is. Just to refresh everyone's memory, but it can be discussed at this point. OK, do you want me to read it? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. The original motion to approve the recommended artist with the design considerations from the selection committee is noted is still on the table. Thank you. So I guess to address Lisa's question. I think it's an interesting point to make and it brings up a conversation about how anyone interprets any art, really. It's quite a broad thing that that people discuss at length in art school and in other venues, institutions. I think it's it comes down to as a public entity who's commissioning a public artwork, you know, in order to approve it, it does the committee feel like they need anything in addition to what's being proposed at this point in terms of explanation. I mean, it sounds like that's what you're asking. Is there any additional information that we would be providing to the public? We did talk to MJ and Joshua about this in terms of what information they could consider being on the plaque for the artwork and that they said they would consider that we offered that the city's standard plaque for artworks usually just include the title. The year it was installed, the name of the artist and that it was a public art project. City of Santa was a public art project. However, some projects have people they need to thank or different explanations they want to give for the artwork. And so we offered them the opportunity to come up with something that would tell them a little bit about what Help Each Other Grow is about. But that they are not, they would not be comfortable. I think this is fair to say they would not be comfortable making a statement saying that the figure does not represent one group or, you know, identity because as you saw in their statement, they want to represent people of color, of all races in their artworks and that it's a part of their artwork. It did not have any additional cultural meaning or context. So making a statement that it's like a negative statement about that, they didn't feel comfortable. I can call on myself. Or actually, I'll let you go, Jeff, and then I'll go. Thanks, Melanie. So I think really my recollection of the conversation is that there was a concern about if this was if the figure was intended to be representative of the Native American community or if it was intended to be a universal sort of, you know, maybe generically ethnic character or something that was in some way, shape, or form representing something that was not specifically stated, that that might be an issue for us to be concerned about. Having read the statement, I believe that I'm comfortable knowing that the artists were not intending for this to be either one of those concerns that we had expressed that being said, knowing the name of the model and recognizing the contribution of the model to the project, I don't think it would be a bad idea to in the acknowledgement of those who contributed to this project to name the model. I mean, this is actually an individual who sat for the for the artwork. And then I think it, at least in my mind, it takes it completely out of the the question about what was this? Was there any intention to do something other than what we see? And then, of course, to your point, Tara, every artwork is open for interpretation by the viewer. It should be interpreted by the viewer. I think that artwork is only it has it has a value in society because we can all gain meaning from it. I actually think it's a really nice painting and I'd love to see it on a wall. And I think it has a positive message. And so I'd love to see everything about it be representing something positive and aspirational for our community. I just want to respond to the artist identifying their model. I wouldn't ask the artist to do that, unless that's something that they're comfortable doing. It's kind of a relationship between the artist and the model. So I wouldn't I wouldn't encourage that to necessarily be a condition. We can suggest that that was discussed, but I wouldn't feel comfortable asking them to do that. And I wasn't suggesting it be a condition at all. I hope that's not how it sounded. I just thought if I didn't even say it would be a good idea. I said, I don't think it would be a bad idea. Which is not in committal, I realize. But I guess I'm not 100 percent sure if that's a good idea or not. Well, I'm calling on myself now, having opened this can of worms. I had some thought provoking conversations with some young adults that live in my home who open my eyes to looking at this project differently. And so I'm I'm OK after reading the artist statement and realizing that we all come into this with our own preconceived notions of what some ethnic group looks like and that we have to be a little more open to artist interpretation. And so I'm good. I think it represents a brown person and what you see in that brown person. You can relate to if you choose to. But I'm still glad we had this conversation. Anyone else? I'll just say I'm glad we have this conversation, too. And I and I look forward to the conversation continuing in sort of a more general sense. I agree. I'm glad this conversation came up. We discussed it and I definitely hearing everybody else and what they had to say made me feel a lot more comfortable. I'm always open to hear, you know, what everybody has to say because my mind can change easily. And what I thought five minutes ago could be different 10 minutes from now just being being educated. So and, you know, getting more knowledge. And I just want to thank everybody. I I also agree. I I think I've already stated kind of where we came from and being a panelist. And I had just so many questions after our last meeting about should we have? Could we have? And so I'm really glad we're going to have this future conversation because I think, you know, this might be like some things just really weren't even in the list of things we were asked to consider when we looked at. And so if there is a broader set of things and issues or lenses to put on anything we do, given the times we're in and that we're all I mean, I'm certainly new to this kind of thing. I really welcome that. So this has been really helpful. And I really think we still have more work to do going forward. So I'm all for it. Thank you. Yeah. There's a community wish to move forward with this motion. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just for the record, someone could say the motion and we could have it seconded that that would be great. Eileen, can you please read back the motion as it was originally? You know, I apologize. I don't have that wording handy. Turbo any chance to have the wording for the motion? I don't have it word for word. But what Melanie read is what I recall. So it was to approve the recommended artist for this project with the selection panel considerations noted. I believe Jeff made the original motion and it was seconded by Lisa. Perhaps. OK. Maybe. So Melanie, was was your recommendation that we add to the original motion with the. Committee. No, I we voted we we elected to table the motion. We did not add to it. Very good. Well, then I think it might be to me as the maker of the original motion to put it or is it maybe it's the chair's job to put it back on it. So you've reopened this, right? So we're we're in agreement. We want to vote on this, right? So the yeah. So that Melanie was asking, should the original motion be moved forward? And the consensus was yes, just by general head shaking and thumbs up. So so then the question is the motion that was made that's still on the table is to approve the recommended artist for this project with the selection panel design considerations noted. Now she really just needs the chair can call a vote on that as it was it was already made and it was already seconded. So I have to ask if the public has any comments regarding this item first. Yes, please. OK. And there is no public comment at this time. Does the committee need any additional follow up discussion at this point or should we take a vote on the motion? I'm ready to vote. Hearing none. OK. I would like to call a vote on the motion on the table. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Plus the record reflect that all members present have voted aye. Great. Thank you, everyone. Appreciate it. The only other thing I'll say before this item is closed out, which I believe is the end of our meeting is just to thank you for burning up this important issue and for your thoughtful and honest discussion about it and that we will bring back additional discussion about the larger topics here. So don't stop asking the questions and thank you. Thank you. That is the only scheduled item for today and this meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, everybody. See you next time. Thank you, everybody.