 Good afternoon everyone. My name is Jennifer Cook. I'm director of the Africa program here at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. We're delighted to welcome you to today's event, the Road to Presidential Elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo. This is a big year for elections in Africa with more than 15 presidential elections in 2011. I think while the electoral standoff in Cote d'Ivoire, the Sudanese referendum, turmoil in Egypt have taken a lot of attention already in our kind of dominating Africa centered interest. I think it'll be very important in the coming months to focus on the elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo. As you know, this is a country of vast potential and promise, but also one that's been racked by conflict and crisis for decades. Recently, I think in a positive development, a lot more attention has been spent on the crisis in the East, but I think less on the fundamental issues that underpin that crisis, the issues of governance which really very much are determined to a large extent within Kinshasa. So these elections coming up are ones that I think the United deserve our scrutiny, our attention and our support. We hope in the course of the coming months here at CSIS to host a series of events focused on the elections, the critical questions, and how best the United States and international community can support free, transparent and credible elections. I think as you know there are troubling signs perhaps already, the Constitutional Amendment that eliminates a runoff election between presidential contestants is kind of something of an ominous sign. I think it will be incumbent on the opposition given those circumstances to have a strategy in place. And for that reason, we're very happy to host today Vitelle Camere, who is the president and co-founder of the Union pour la Nationcaux-Golais, the UNC party. He, as you know, he's a former member of parliament, representing the Bukavu District of Kivu. And as many of you know, he was one time a close ally of President Kabila. He served as secretary general of the ruling People's Party for Reconstruction and Development, the PPRD. It was a leader of President Kabila's election campaign and held a number of government positions. Most recently he was president of the National Assembly, a post from which he resigned in March 2009 after a very public falling out with President Kabila over Rwanda's involvement in Eastern DRC and perhaps more specifically the role of the legislature and the powers vested in the legislature to be informed and to oversee. So Mr. Camere is being a key figure, both in successive peace processes on the east and in the inter-congolese political dialogue. He is today considered among the leading opposition candidates for president in the run-up to the November 2011 elections. So we're delighted to have you here with us. He's joined today by Tadi Wantwadi, who's the personal representative of Mr. Camere in the U.S. He'll be translating for Mr. Camere. And also on the panel we have Mbemba Dizolele, who is a distinguished visiting fellow with a Hoover Institution of Stanford University. Mbemba is a writer, foreign policy analyst and independent journalist. He's written extensively on Congo. He's currently a visiting scholar at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. And he's the author of a forthcoming, we're looking forward to seeing this too, the forthcoming biography. It's been forthcoming for a while. Mobutu, The Rise of Fall of the Leopard King. I just want to say a note. I know many people have traveled to this event from far away. There's a great deal of passion surrounding the issues in Congo. They say this about Kenyans and Nigerians, but Congolese, you have three Congolese in a room and you've got four different opinions right there. People are very impassioned. I think people are very frustrated with what's happened in the Congo over time. So I know there'll be a lot of discussion. We've gotten a lot of emails in the run up to this event. I do hope you know, again, this is one of a series that we'll be having on the Democratic Republic of Congo's, the election course. We do want this to remain kind of a civil. It's not a political rally. This is analysis and discussion. And we hope we all maintain the tone and keep that spirit in mind. We're going to turn to Mr. Kameri first for remarks and then to Mbemba. And we're going to reserve as much time as possible for a question period. So with that, Mr. Kameri, welcome. We're delighted to host you here and we look forward to your remarks. I'd like, first of all, to thank the Center for Strategic and International Studies for the invitations that I have received. On my invitation, they asked me to speak about the political situation in the DRC, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and about also my candidacy as the presidential elections of 2011. Therefore, that takes me to speak about the political power right now and, of course, facing up the opposition. The actual power versus facing up the electoral process right now, which will be diagnosed. We're also going to talk about the attitude of the political opposition against the electoral process. The civil society has also got some voices. We'll also be speaking about the international community attitude. Since it's hard to speak for oneself, we will finalize our speech with that and then we'll leave it to others to go ahead and just paint whatever they could see out of me. The first point is the revision of the constitution in our country. The second point is the modification of the electoral law. The third point is the implementation of the opposition and the civil society. And the fourth point is the politicization of the army, of the police and the security services. And finally, the manipulation of the institutions in charge of the elections in our country. About the power actually, the government attitude towards this process. First of all, I'll be speaking about the review or the amendment that they want to bring about the constitution, the modification on the electoral law, and of course the attack on the opposition and the fourth one, the Capri of St. Croix. The politicization of the army and the manipulation of the electoral committee. The review of the constitution surprised a lot of people. First of all, about the timing of it and then the second thing is how it happened. Many are questioning why this is happening in January at this time and at the moment that the electoral process has also to begin. They say you don't change the rules of the game during the competition. However, here we've noticed that the rules are being changed during the competition. Since the power in these offices had the impression of having a completely open royal voice in front of them, that is to say there was no opposition. From the moment the power had succeeded, with the complicity of many people, of the masters of Jean-Pierre Bemba in the race, that is to say the master in the CPI, for the opposition, for the power, the voice of victory was assured. Because at one time the power, those in power, felt that Jean-Pierre Bemba at the CPI, who was the challenger of Cabilla, had 42%. Jean-Pierre Bemba, who was the challenger of Cabilla, had 42%. Right now he's at the CPI. For the power, the victory was assured. Many believe that it was all over. He was dead because he was in jail and Chisecetti is too old and that's it, it's all over. However, the return of Chisecetti back to Kinshasa and the welcome that he received shook up the power in Kinshasa and brought up the attention of those in the ruling class today. As far as we're concerned, concerning ourselves, the UNC, as based on our right to vote, I think it's the second element that has finally convinced the power that it needed to count with a certain opposition in front of the elections that have been prepared. As far as we're concerned, concerning ourselves, the UNC, as based on our meeting of December 14, about our own resignation from the parliament and about the trip that we took within the country and that just about start bringing up to them that something may be happening because of what movement has been becoming. The President of the Republic has decided that we can review the constitution because it's convinced that by moving from the side of the constitution, by changing the words of the voters, by changing the words of the voters in turn, in a major turn, he can face an opposition that has been disorganized to ensure that he wins. And so he has instructed the National Assembly to modify the constitution. This question was not inscribed to the Judicial Law, so the law asks for it, but we made a strong move and the constitution has been modified. So today, despite all the contestations, the President has promised to review the constitution. I have to summarize that. As soon as the President realized what's happening, first of all, we have to talk about Mr. Chisekedi coming back and what he just said, and secondly, about the position of UNC. He realized that it's time to review and modify the constitution because that's what really could probably give him an opportunity. Therefore, it was important for them to do away with the second round for the elections. When he looked at him, he saw that the first round, he could take an advantage on that because he's alone to go there and knowing that the opposition is seriously divided in pieces and pieces, therefore going that way will give him an opportunity to get more voices. Because this attitude of power has allowed the opposition to have an instant of survival. For the first time, we have seen a communique joined by Dincelle Voix and saying no to the constitutional review. Well, the opposition didn't wait too long and they realized it. Sometimes we say when you have something wrong, it could always bring some goodness out of it. Therefore, because of all these moving around the positions of the power, for the first time the opposition came together, came up to find out an agreement to see how they could move forward, effectively to go against the position that is being taken by the ruling class. Well, in the media, they started a campaign saying that be careful, Camero is not in opposition. We are sending him to come in and effectively on behalf of us, the power to disturb the opposition. The international community who had yet supported and guaranteed the global inclusive agreement which had gotten involved in the war, and we had expected what it could do at the end of the day. And so we left again the media, the MLC, all of us together to say no and that we weren't happy with the reaction of the international community, shy or absent. all together went to the United Nations presence in the Congo and took a position on that because we understood that this is to discourage the opposition, therefore shaking up the international community to come up to the responsibilities because we felt that there were some witnesses or some type of not heat on behalf of the international community. When they noticed that they said well we're not sure about the victory so we have to do something else so that means we have to go ahead and modify the electoral laws. Fortunately parliament was in recess otherwise they would have just changed the constitution. What is the objective? Why is it on a target? It's just like taking a decision as when you take a suit you measure it we take the case of Mr. Vemba and that suit only fits Mr. Vemba. What are they trying to obtain as objective first of all is to just get rid of Mr. Chisakedi because they're trying to modify the law bringing the age of presidential candidates to 70 down to 70 because Mr. Chisakedi is over 70 and that is an immoral act. Well it is effectively for me to believe that is immorality. Can you imagine when we were in power we brought down the age from 40 to 30 and I assume I was next to him we did it we brought the age from 40 down to 30 to make sure that we suffered that Mr. Kabila could pass on through so his candidacy could be accepted when we lowered the age so what does it mean right now things are changing that's just like I mean knocking down the brains on which you are sitting on a tree and it was Jean-Pierre Bemba who said listen that's okay we could go ahead and deal with it they are the Congolese people we understand if it is for the peace nevertheless let's go ahead and bring the age to the age of 30 simple as that. The second target for those in power is to fix up some criteria that will necessarily get rid of Mr. Camero. On that law it will say that any political party that has not been around for over five years cannot go ahead to the election to the presidential election. What are they afraid of? What could we say we really don't have much time however we can understand that the purpose of the power is to manipulate the laws the pre electoral laws that within this time that are set for the elections. Well we don't have to wait and then get into the situation such as what is going on in Egypt and what happened in Nigeria it is as far as I'm concerned I believe in preventing and therefore vaccinating something it's much more better to prevent than wait for it to happen. What is it you know the purpose is that reducing offices enrollment and rolling offices for elections where they know that there is a lot of opposition and increasing the numbers of voting offices where they know that the power has more population that pushing our people to travel distances such as 40 kilometers to just go and vote. And I will come back to this question because there is a lot to say about the opposition and the civil society as well as the press. I know we don't have much time however I'm going to come back to the CENI that's the independent national electoral committee and sorry independent and independent electoral committee because you don't have much more time and then I will speak about it and how the opposition is being muzzled. What I'm saying we have not the same rights with the presidential political party what happened to us here we were supposed to go to the GB that's a space which used to belong to Benba's father and when we wanted to go there they sent the police force to block us to get in so we decided to go to the international hotel in Kinshasa so they were able to influence the manager to go ahead and cut down the electricity so closed up the room and we had to do our meeting on the hall. However we did provide our announcement. They are certainly some acts of intimidation and vandalism you will see that. Recently we went to Goma and what happened was the intimidation shooting by the police forces and therefore you will be seeing some videos that we brought we will distribute them here we will start with the ladies and whatever remains we can give to the men. There is a great politicization of the army and the police. Army and police instead of securizing the people taking care of the population protecting the borders of the of the country right now the police and the army have as objective to intimidate and mistreat the population. There is also the justice aspect the the laws what happened recently with the one of the candidate who was arrested and judged within an hour and he has got three year sentence of jail and also happened with a mucon colleague who had really not done anything at all as an MP he's an MP a member of parliament who has been arrested for he was at midnight five minutes he was judged and he's taking 10 months of what is opposition I know there will be a lot of questions I'll be very brief to just let me behind so I could talk and respond to your questions I can see your faces that's what makes democracy a great thing the opposition the opposition reacted quickly vigorously and on that hold up and rejected that revision of the constitution. but also to prevent another evil that is the electoral law since this electoral law I forgot to tell you we don't want to only move to the presidential level but to the level of the legislative to abandon the proportional mode which ensures a large representation of our ethnic groups and sociological and political parties to return to a mode where the parties are strong and the great ethnic groups will be represented. I don't think you don't mind if I seem to start going back to some phases so we're probably going to go back a little bit. the opposition rejected the constitutional revision we started we started loving about the revision of the law especially on the proportion on the election aspect because what's happening is just like in Egypt the power wants to not only the presidential power but they also want to occupy all the position at the level of the national assembly. Oppositions going to start consolidating our unity. You can ask me why and I will answer why because we have to get ready for the battle. If we go on a disorder well it's going to end up turning against us and then therefore losing everything. What what I believe about this union I'll come back on because all you have three minutes international community the absence of the international community really surprised us because it guaranteed and even signed the global union of Sanctity because it guaranteed the the accord that we signed in Sanctity however we grateful to the late acceptances of the European Union what are we expecting from the international community when the UN forces will change its mandate. We'll talk about it because you're going to question about it concerning my candidature it's not just a trial it's not vengeance nor anger we have a vision for the Congo we have a dream for the Congo for Africa and the world we have a program we have a program we have a system of installation of leadership responsible we're going to store leadership responsible leadership we have a plan to get out of crisis not only on on the eastern side of the Congo but with the Great Lakes the army aspect of it will come in top of other aspects of it and we first of all begin with the diplomatic aspect because we have to chase up and find out all these minerals and the human rights aspect because the population that has been removed that have to come back we have to install a special court which that is a very very important thing which we'll chase up and find out all those are raping women and the violence on the women in the country in our country we always try to set up things by saying that the judges are corrupted well i'm not defend those people the whole system is corrupted how much is given to the judicial power to to operate just like an appendix of the executive power we have to reform it our plan also has got a sector for the development we have demobilized all the young people's when the rebel groups in the east but they hid their carnation but if they are not utilized properly they're gonna go back the plan also includes regional cooperation and in fact this plan includes the military option we're going to talk about all of this and i hope that the questions when they will be asked i will answer them i had to print the text in french and in english but by the time i see that i have small errors in there i will correct them tomorrow i will put it at the center's disposal to give to all those who are interested in the Congo by starting with our compatriots that i can't forget to salute the presence of this room they have come to listen to us and we are going to thank all the others who have come who are not from the Congo it shows the interest that our country represents for humanity i said madame once again thank you for the opportunity that you have offered me to take advantage of this prestigious tribune and speak in front of these auditory heads well done and i think that we will comment with the questions that you will answer i'd like to thank you uh mrs jennifer and also the audience here and especially speaking in front of the Congolese audiences and of course also everybody else who has come here and i have some documents here which we'll distribute eventually later on because i went through it and so some things that have to be uh modified a little bit but uh it's really a pleasure to be here and uh you are uh to be i'm honored to be in front of this uh think tank and uh thank you again uh thank you so much mr. Kamari um just to let you know we we're webcasting this event so it will be available online and if you we have written documents in french and english bill also post those along with the video um so those will all be available to the audience here let's turn to invemba for comments and response and then the way forward thank you very much um and welcome honorable vitale camérez so it's a pleasure to have you in town uh i also have to let you know what you already know for sure you just how much passion and excitement you generate these days uh when the invitation went out i got a lot of emails and a lot of voicemails uh one particular uh somebody called and left a voicemail on my answering machine and said i'm calling you in all civility but i have to say that i forcefully disagree with what you're doing this is the most ridiculous thing you can do to lend your name on a panel with vitale camérez did you know that is a barundian so i didn't know what to do this kind of message so so welcome to ashington bc um so i would just like to talk a little briefly i think in the interest of time so let's we'll give you more time for your questions i think more of the meat will come from there it kind of just a bit of the context of what we're talking about when we talk about the road ahead in 2006 i had an opportunity to be both a reporter uh in eastern congo and throughout the country i was embedded with you and troops in ituri uh on lake albert where we did a lot of patrol trying to intercept weapons that were coming from uganda to the militias and did a lot of patrol in south kiv against the inter ahamue and the fdlr with the pakistani troops there so i had the sense of that i also had a chance to visit the pansy hospital actually see this woman who had been raped get a sense of uh that calamity that is taking place in our country i was also able to follow a candidate on the campaign trail in back on go who is running for a deputation as an mp later on in same year i was back in the second round of the elections as an observer with the car the center and was posted in bandaka and jampi arbenbas territory so i had the sense of what's happening from various perspectives and since then i've been back several times 2006 was a year of a lot of hope you know people used to think he was the first election that congo had organized but actually it was not because the last election were organized in 65 um this are the election that eventually led to the coup uh that brought movement to power those elections were deemed fair in 2019 65 so this is to say that there is actually a tradition of fair elections even in the congo you know from 60 to 65 the conglis ran their own elections there were no international observers right uh when i arrived in uh in 2006 for the observation i called a friend's father uh and he asked me why you're here i said i'm here to observe the elections he said oh why do you always do these kind of things you know it's it's a moot exercise i can always tell you what the result will be and what your official statement will be and he said if you want i can tell you now or you can discuss it after a month when you finish your observation so just tell me now he said what the car the center will say in spite of all the irregularities the system was pretty much function i worked well and um four weeks later the frustration actually reflected what he had said that even as an observer we spent a lot of time uh you know an observer is like an investigative reporter so you spend a lot of time in the case of the drc with all the various parties most of them didn't know what they were doing uh except just blaming the others uh so there's a lot of accusations and allegations that as a as an investigator as an observer you have to go dig out and find so we end up spending a lot of time in the equatorial forest with the pygmies because everybody was saying the pygmies were not registered to vote you know just to give you an example it turned out that was bogus i remember some accusations and uh went into going to investigate the national police and when i arrived um my partner was americans went to the police they called the general they told them these observers are here and this what's happening and the guy was doing intelligence for the police spoke in swahili so he told the general in swahili and with my american passport somehow they thought i couldn't understand what was going on so we did a lot of bias being narrated so i kept my mouth shut we were able to do the report at the end these reports never were used right nevertheless we had an election that legitimized president joseph cabela who became a president and there was a lot of hope particularly in the parliament so we were able to fold that parliament pretty closely and um we were able to follow vitale camere uh as uh the president very closely the parliament gave a lot of hope because in the case of the drc where there is not a strong history of political parties there was not a lot of a strong history of transparent parliamentary work um the openness with which the national assembly ran for those few months was pretty refreshing so all the debates were televised the opposition leaders and deputies and MPs were allowed to bring forth their bills so i think when you look at congo most people talk about the uh the overwhelming level of problems that congo may have but for once there was an element of hope right so you had the review of a mining contract with china you had a lot of hearings you had uh all this thing being televised so that even there were a report that even though he had come from the imp the presidential coalition uh his people were not very happy the rest of the country was happy because that these things are working um but the challenge then became even though these things were happening and he was televised they never actually led to anywhere right so if we had hearings then what happened after the hearing so does it become just a much exercise in the sense people are doing things because it feels good and on the form level it's great but the the the substance is lacking so we had about two years of this period where uh interpolation after interpolation hearing after hearing minister came through but nothing really happened but at the same time it gave a certain momentum because this is where we saw for instance with the chinese the chinese mining contract some review were pushed but again it didn't go very far after the uh bundudak the akongo protestation and manifestation and revolt took place in bakongo uh the minister of the interior at the time thought he could just go to kong to the parliament and bulldoze his way through and get some results in favor of the government but unfortunately for him there was certain openness in parliament which allowed the leader of that party uh the bdk to rebut the minister of interior so he was able to unravel the minister's argument because there was a certain openness and i think this actually led to the undoing the minister himself because when the remanima took place after that he was out um so moving on to the next level um and that is what do we do then with the opposition when the government is so bent or should i say the imp so bent on taking the lion's share and not even leaving crumbles for the rest of the uh the electorate or the people in the system right here the challenge if you take any african country and this is just a rhetorical question take angola if i ask you to tell to name me to name any opposition leading angola most of you will be hard pressed to give me a name of an opposition leading angola that will be the same for namibia this will be the same for botwana and this botwana namibia country that are fairly organized but you don't know them if i ask you to name two names for the opposition leading in kongo you will name a few so it's it's to show just the contrast how kongo is between two others it's chaotic but it's not always that chaotic there is room actually the things that are happening uh they may be uh happening in place but things actually moving so it's not purely a mirage in that sense um you have to say kedi you have udps to say kedi being the father of the democratic the modern democratic movement in kongo so if you analyze him he is a guy who had a lot of courage to break off uh from obutu and start this great movement now for whatever reason uh he's never been able to capitalize on uh on the various opportunities that came along the way i don't know why that's a udps to respond but udps nevertheless have a strong structure that makes it possible if some conditions were put together for them actually to challenge the power in place today all right so on the other level he had people like jam pierre benba who also came to to illustrate the other side of the coin so former rebel but very rich and because he was rich because he had a structure of his own he could do what the other parties cannot do right so so kedi has a structure in terms of population and followers but kedi doesn't have money the udps does not have money the udps does not have a radio in a system where the government owns the media the government on the security forces and everything else uh and is actually the government is actually greedy and by government i mean the amp it's hard to operate in that system right so udps will never get airtime uh but if you have your own radio station and your own tv station then you can do that so benba was able to emerge in part because of this right there were frustration against the power in place but there was also possibilities that he was able to capitalize on and of course the result we saw between the two rounds of the election that his station were looted burn and so on and so forth so when we have a new party that is born the u n c with camera what does that mean so this actually raises the new questions does the u n c and the other parties that will emerge in the process going forward have any structure right so it's going to be or is this going to be another exercise as we saw in while you were the head of the parliament goodwill popularity on the rise but in the end does it lead anywhere so um do you have followers uh i think there's a lot of frustration are you going to try to fill the void that benba left and in that case um gain the popularity and the moana kongo and all the other stuff that comes with the momentum but still when it comes to it you will not be able to deliver because the structure again is not there right uh it because of the diaspora in the room there is an element that has been very frustrating to your fellow kongolese around the world and that is into the moratorium and citizenship so in 2006 the kongolese overseas were very much eager to contribute that is to vote for whatever reason the system made it impossible for them for very various reasons with which you're very familiar but then we found out quickly that once you were sworn in that parliament about 150 of you had foreign passport so as they had foreign passport you as the principal of the parliament i don't know what happened so this will be a chance for you to explain to your fellow kongolese decided not to kick these people out of parliament as the law would have dictated but instead to do something we've never seen anywhere in the world to pass a moratorium on the law on citizenship and that moratorium is still in place so does that mean as a kongolese with an american passport i can challenge you for the presidency does it mean all the other people you know what i'm saying so to move on to the international community the time is very critical for the drc at this point this is the time this is not the time to talk about how tremendous and overwhelming the kongolese problem is because that's really bs the kongolese problem is very well known we know what they are at this point with constitutional revision we know exactly we should not tolerate this you know by lowering the age in 2000 in 2006 by making certain concessions it it you open the door for where we are today you know we are where we are today so you know they always talk in english about when you give a monster cookie he will come for a jar of milk and you will be obliged to give him the jar of milk because his mouth is too sweet and you need to cool the sugar out so these are some of the issues i'll leave it there and i will take it from oh actually before i close so to go back to the international community we know the issues at a specific moment where there is a fight for the installation of the seni the transformation from the electoral independent commission to the permanent one the seni there's a lot of bickering a lot of going things going through you know there's the kabila camp has pushed for his spiritual advisor to become the head of the seni there's a lot of things that are happening there is the push from the government to do away with the entire database of the voters that were used in 2006 and studies think a new which does not make sense if the government says that they don't have money that's why they want to to renege so how do you have not have money on one level but you're running all this large project to rebuild a new database it's insane so the international community then should if they want to have a say get involved and help the seni with the mean i think what we need with the means what we need is actually an it's an audit a general audit of where we are you know she said kd for all his problem it asks for a census in 2006 everybody laughed at him meaning in the international community but that problem is we are now today so if we're going to renew the database who are we putting in the database are we putting new people are we putting the dead are we adding the young people who are 18 now we can vote who are 14 in 2006 what's going on so there is an element a very specific area where i think the international community can add a lot of value i stop here thank you very much great um uh that's thanks very much in vimba and i will leave to you to respond to some of the the questions but let's open up first we'll take a few questions at a time and then turn back to our panelists to respond in the interest of time um one question i'd like to start out with is vebra you talked a little bit about the role of the international community focus on the electoral commission for example in the the database i'm wondering and perhaps mr kamari also um where is it best that the us can exert pressure what one of the questions on this we do we have a kind of a laundry list of things we're doing to help with the crisis and security sector reform and and and this and that but the real question how do we change the behavior of kabila himself i mean where where is the leverage what matters to him um that we that we control um but let's uh take some questions so we've got that one on the table and we'll take one from this gentleman i'd like to say please make it a question and please make it brief because we have a translator here as well that needs to uh we don't want to overwork okay thank you mr kamari thank you mr kamari my name is Jean kambakabangu i'm the president for udps in washington i just have two questions one question one question in 92 gones carly bond was here he was in a government he gave the same speech like you you resemble like like him physically he was a chameleon school is the same speech and it's almost the same tactics you're going to utilize maybe in six months we're going to go back in the government that's my question thank you just one question uh you will take three yeah okay uh the gentleman here okay thank you uh we i can ask my question in french uh what what is your preference okay go ahead at last okay thank you mr kambari welcome mr kambari my name is losoboya i'm the general secretary of alliance for the progress i have a question for you i was candidate in 2006 for uh as an mp my question on 2011 we know that the power has done everything to stop the opposition to assure us that at the level of electoral operations which is the minimum of fraud i know what is important for us is to that there will be some frauds and uh we have to go ahead and try to block these frauds and what is what can mr camera say about it thank you for the question i don't know the ben bea my name is an analyst politician i'm a political analyst two questions one one okay one question that mr camera can talk to us about the originality mr camera to speak to us about his uh his origins okay that's it have him explained so he could be able to uh in 1971 president mubutu passed a decree asking all the Congolese to have a national name authentic name as they called it then how about mr camera on his diploma in 1987 we see the name of vital camera how could he continue to use the name of vital town oh at that time no conglis could have used a name that was a foreign name let's turn to this thank you very much let me start with the last one because it's the easiest one this is explains why our country is not moving forward look at a conglis compatriot we are in washington dc on the center of strategic studies mr camera can die the conglis people will remain that's that's the most important the conglis nation my father's name is constant camera can you my mother is working alphonse she is from royal family i was baptized on the name of vital i'm catholic i studied in boucavou in boujima in bandung doing back on go and i speak all the four national and it's not that i have no colleagues that graduated with me in the universal kinshasa where i studied with a lot of friends i finished my studies under the name of vital camera lwakanigini king i finished my studies under the name of vital camera lwakanigini king i was i went through 11 ministry as an advisor at the ministry and when i decided to go to politics for mediatic reasons i just cut it down to vital camera if you want me to add like uh kogungu and wasabanga we like if you feel you homesick about it i'm ready to to do it i'm not say this the real conglis the one that brings in forth real acts for the benefit of an american naturalized conglis who has become conglis who will develop a small corner of my village is more of a conglis than a conglis good day je voudrais revenir si la question qui a été soulevé par mon contradictor thank you so much i'm gonna respond to the science the premier reflex c'est l'honnêteté scientifique in science the first thing is to be very very honest i was the head of the national assembly i told the conglis people i will put the church in the middle of the the village and of course first thing the interest of the conglis people go to to the conglis and find out how many can follow today live on tv national assemblies debate i refuse to take away jampiers benba's i don't know where you were but i want to see jampier benba the south african embassy he was a refugee there i went to see him in portugal i went to la hey i refuse to take away the humidity of bundled yacong's leader jerry fizzle brahdage de riches du congo jelie non le contract chinois devait ressorti de recommandation i refused to take any type of brahdage on the my friend the vember distinguished friend vember the question of burundi or randay i was elected with a hundred thousand voices of the conglis of bucava above that why do we hate each other as africans we are africans let's fight that africa could be strong at the beginning it was europe europe came to colonize america america seized his chance america took his chains after that was japan now we're talking about china we're talking about brazil the next decade starts today this decade must be the africans decade we have everything that we need if there's a problem global warming we have the forest hunger we have a lot of land clean energy we have the barrage of the inga den the material i mean you know we got a lot of water what are we missing the only thing that we're missing in congo is lula the congo is just a photocopy of brazil we could just do the same and go through that i would like to say to madame jenifer thank you madame jenifer for your question it's a very important question we are in a globalization and you know the us as one of the biggest power plays an important role you followed what happened in tunisia and the us position and now what's going on in egypt we are following what's happening with the position of the america what america could do there is the extension of the terms of the monoskew which is the un forces in the congo in the month of may and that's why i like to respond to the friend who spoke about fighting fraud we have also to give an electoral mandate to the you and that means bring security to the candidates security of the results when we're moving the documents from the the office of the enrollment area and that's where the fraud i think all the friends have brought up questions but i'm gonna talk i will not the question on the nationality of my friend vimba a reason my friend vimba is right not only members of parliament but also government ministers and officials have also to passports what is the problem now we are able to have some neighbors who have always converted our natural resources so uh we said what are we gonna do because we know that we have a lot of neighboring countries we really have an envy to have the food in the congo so what should we do therefore we have to go step by step we have to understand the state or the government is absent therefore we cannot sacrifice the rights of the citizens because of the absence of the government when we asked that the diaspora could start voting in the embassy the reaction was that well well our embassies are not well secured you know so let's not let people vote there so what do we do double nationality is questioned it's in the constitution the constitution says that the conglis nationality is one and an exclusive if you opened up that question i was worried that if we opened up that the government was gonna go and review all the other articles of the constitution i agree with you we cannot restrain the rights of the conglis to vote i can say as far as i'm concerned and the u n c is concerned we will fight that the conglis of the diaspora can have the rights the country is mal-governed the state is absent here is what we can do for our country and we can advance the locomotive and the wagons why when we have lived at the time we had promised the objective 80 and when the power leaders start we leave lulubur to go to the embassy they arrive at the first look the locomotive leaves and abandon all the wagons they arrive at the objective 80 we want to avoid that when joseph kabila also takes power it's the same thing so it's a development at a speed that we want this time and the locomotive and the wagons advance at the same pace my friend venba my friend venba i understand what you are saying about u and c you know everything we have done what we have done and you can find this out you know we have all the documentation that exists you know rome was not built in one day and uh you gotta know in the past when during the mobutu's era when we spoke about uh you know what we have in our minds is that when we have a train a train has got a ahead and then it's got cars and we we believe that when the train moves it must move with all the trains and with all the cars together i demand the indulgence of madame jenifer to respond to my friend jen kabangu of lidepesse could i just respond to uh this is a brief response so we can get more questions i think yeah you okay My friend, the translation for the Anglophones. Yes, I'll just brief it up very, very shortly. We all know history, you know. Who doesn't know where UDP has started? And the leaders, Chisekedi. It was time he was the minister in Mobutu's government. He participated in everything. He was one of those who even wrote the manifesto of Densele and all that. However, that's part of the history. But because of that, can we really believe and say that Chisekedi cannot change or has not changed? Because he at one time belonged to the Mobutuism and worked with the government in the past. Can we really say that? So that's the question. OK, we're going to take four questions and turn back to the panel. This is going to be difficult. We're going to take the gentleman there up front here. I will start with a very short joke. You are looking for Lula. I am a Lula mere. A Lula? A Lula, c'est mon nom. Moi c'est a Lula. Donc si vous cherchez pour votre Lula, je suis là. If you're looking for Lula, I'm here. OK. Honorable Camerie. Honorable Camerie. I will try to say it in English directly so you can translate. Thank you. We were a little bit shocked by the fact that going from the majority to come to the opposition, the tactic that you use is really shocking. Everybody know that you know for the nation was represent 42% of the Congolese who vote for Jean-Pierre Bemba. And this group, political group still represent some deputy in the parliament and some senator in the parliament actually. You are simply ignoring the international property law that Congo have signed, the Berne Convention. Because, for example, by taking uniform for the nation and just adding Congolese, it's a very bad thing. The second thing is in the case of UNC. UNC, at hand for president of Congo as a president of UNIC, UNIC, in International Integrated Congo, on the Milseys. So the name of UNIC is protected and copyrighted. What is your question? OK, my question. How do you think that the opposition can welcome you if you come in this way very tricky way on the opposition? Thank you. Thank you. Let's take one from the gentleman, not in the back row but in the one right before. Hello, Mr. Vital Cameré. My name is Chanel Kouca. What's your name? My name is Chanel Kouca. My name is Chanel Kouca. From the Congo Brazzaville. Of Brazzaville. And I heard you talk about Africa. So my question is that of Africa. What are the positions taken by Mr. Vital Cameré to put in value the rights of the man? What is your position on the human rights, to the value of human rights? I thank you. Thank you. Excellent, brief question. OK, how about the lady here in the third row? Thank you. Mr. Cameré. Can you identify yourself? My name is Julianne Aldebrun. I'm an American. I spent some time in Congo, but it was a long time ago when it was that year. You spoke earlier about the opposition unifying. And at the same time, you're talking about your own candidacy. It seems strategically that since the Constitution has been amended now, there won't be a second runoff, that it would make sense for the entire opposition to unify behind a single candidate. And what is your feeling about this? Merci bien pour la parole. Thank you for the question. Je m'appelle Docteur Emile Boulat. My name is Docteur Emile Boulat. J'ai juste une petite question. I just have a question. Le 16 décembre 2010, 16 décembre 2010, sur Radio Capy, on Radio Capy, dit que je suis venu demander pardon à la population de Goma. I came to ask pardon, forgiveness to the population of Goma. Puisque je m'entis en 2006. Because I lied in 2006. Moi, je vois pas mal comment. Vous n'avez pas dit ce que vous avez menti. You didn't say what you lied about. Puisque pour demander pardon, il faut dire, j'ai pris ta femme, j'ai fait ceci, j'ai fait ce là. Et puis c'est pourquoi je suis venu demander pardon. Because if you want forgiveness, you have to give details. I took your wife or whatever. Alors, nous voudrons aujourd'hui que vous nous disiez. Tell us today. Qu'est-ce que vous avez menti? Puisque nous savons. What did you lie about? Dire que je suis entré dans le PPRD à cause de leurs projets de société. I already understand. Saying that... Okay. Dire que je suis, j'étais dans le PPRD à cause de leurs projets de société et qu'en 2006, saying that I was in PPRD because of the project of society that they have. And that in 2006, when the President took the power, he did not follow the project of society. And when 2006, President Kabila took power, he didn't follow up what was set up, your objectives of your programs. There is no mention of that. When you are in the PPRD... Okay, okay. I think we have the question. Yeah, but let me finish. Okay. As we want to talk about that. So, I think... We have a question. Yes, we have the question. We understood. Yes, but there is another question. No, no, no, no, no. It's not like that. It's like a difference. It's like a difference. Okay, last question. Une femme. Nita, come here. Oh, that's it. Up in the front row. My name is Nita Evelia. I represent Congo Global Action and Advocacy Group here for the ERC. My question is regarding the military. When Mr. Kameri talked about his project that we don't have, unfortunately, he talked about a potential military intervention if nothing is working. So my question here is what type of military intervention is talking about when we know in DRC we don't even have an army? And I remember that it was during his being close to President Kabila that they have decided to integrate all the rebels and all the militias into the army. And people in the east will also tell you that in that process, they did integrate Rwandans and Burundians and Ugandans, soldiers into the army. So my question is, by taking that decision of integrating all the militia and rebels, it seems like they didn't have an after plan. Now we have an FRDC army who is worse than the FTLR in human rights abuse. So my question is, what kind of program it has to reform the military? Please, thanks. OK. OK, we're going to turn back to you, Mr. Khmeri. And then we'll give Mbemba kind of a wrap up. If you have a comment, Mbemba, you have a comment. And so go ahead. Yeah. Let me start with Mrs. Nita. It's a question of the day. That's the best question of the day. Because she says that I spoke about military plan on the program that I spoke about, you're right. It would be a lie for me to say that we have an integrated, restructured army at home. Why? That all the forces together, Congolese forces and Rwandese forces, it would have been worse bringing those together in the eastern part of the Congo. And then, I mean, I'm right about that. I oppose that. I even said that the eastern part of the Congo, January 2008, when we have the Conference of Goma, C&P, the rebels supported by Rwanda, they gave us 4,000 people. When President Kabila signs the agreement with Rwanda on these forces, 23 August 2008, it was just a fast integration. Quick. It was a surprise. We couldn't understand how this integration, the Rwandan forces, went from 4,000 to 9,000. Nobody is stupid. It's the Rwandan troop that is in our army. And it's really dangerous. It's very bad. That's what we say to respond to last part of the question. If we win the next elections, God willing, I'm a Christian, what will I do for the army? First of all, bring back, put in a cousin, I mean in a camp, all the military. Have a standard. How many soldiers we need for the country? How much the last one must be paid? How about the distribution of food within the military camp? Just like it used to be back, then the medical center should be within the military camp. The soldiers, children, must have the schools within the camp. A soldier can get out of the camp with an authorization to go out. The military camp cannot be in town because the city is the objective. If the city is attacked and the camp is inside the city, definitely the city will fall. Back at home, the soldiers even, they are living in the city and they are all over the town. How can we bring back all the soldiers if Kinshasa is attacked? You'll be surprised to hear that your neighbor is a soldier but he hasn't put his uniform for very, very long. It's a hard, hard work, it's not easy, it requires a lot of willingness and a vision. Emile Boula says, December 16, 2010, I said, I ask for forgiveness to the Congolese people because I lied. You know, the French language has a lot of nuances, just like English. When I say I made a mistake and I misguided you, only God doesn't make a mistake. For me admitting that I just made a mistake, you have to congratulate me for that. Because I don't want to stay on that mistake. What he wants me to tell him? On what? Was I wrong? That's the question. I was very clear. I was very gentleman. The choice that I showed you was the right one. You just want to call the cat all the time by its name. I was the campaign manager of President Kabila in 2006. Out of 142 territories, I went in 122. I was convinced because together we were very successful with the Congolese dialogue. We had a great transition with Jean-Pierre Bemba-Roubeiro and everybody else. We took back the IMF program that was interrupted since 1990 during Mubutustan. I don't cheat history. We went to the elections. The problem started when we won the elections. What should we do of the power? Judge me on that. Judge me on that and then I will go to the power separation but in the complementarity because the objective is to improve the conditions of the people of Congolese. We work under separation power. However, we complete each other. The objective is to resolve the problem of the Congolese people. I did all I could in parliament as said by my friend Bemba. We had a lot of interpolations of the ministers. I recommended that such and such a minister must be taken to court. What do you want me to do if the executive gives instructions to the judicial system to leave him alone? My brother, you forgot that at the time of the transition, the committee of the National Assembly had put a commission that had established that certain ministers were compromised. We didn't give the minister the time to justify himself. He had to let the minister justify himself. And the process went on until the end. That's what we wanted. During the transition, Kamita was the president of the parliament. And he had set up a program where a lot of ministers had to be interpelled, right? Because we are in a country of justice. We are in a country of justice. You just don't say such and such a person has fallen. You have to give me an opportunity for the justice. We've got a lot to do. Madame Julien, thank you for your question. Facing the actual power with all the manipulation of the Constitution and electoral law, the opposition must stick together. We have to put ourselves above to reach that. The first thing we have to do, we have to have a pre-electro-program, a common pre-electro-program together. The second thing, we want the power, what for, for the common pre-electro-program? A minimum program for the improvement of the Congolese situation. Three, we have to set up some standards in Crateria. Just like a sewing suit. We'll take that suit and try it on Kabangu. However that suit is going to fit on him, he's going to be the head of the whole group. However, do it on the inverse side, starting by the people, by the person. That the opposition will not agree. We have, first of all, to accept the criteria we can set up. Or we do like we do in America. I remember when we were four years before, when they were speaking about Obama, we had to face Mrs. Clinton that the whole world knows. We said at that time that well, Mr. Obama is too young, we have to let Mrs. Clinton, we have to let the base and the people speak. Whatever you think, it's not necessary what the electoral is thinking. We will bend to the opinion of the opposition. An objective opinion. If they say, Mr. Camero, you have to be behind such and such a person, I'm willing to do so. But that should be for everybody else, all the candidates. We have to be humble and God will lift us up. Your question is really complicated. How to have the human rights be respected? The reconstruction of the state of right, that's what we have to go back to. We have to have a state that recovers all these obligations. An army, a professional police that secures the people and not to steal. A solid administration. Today, the Belgians have had 250 days without a government. However, things are working because they have an administration. An impartial justice and equal. And we have to talk about diplomacy on that. But the Congo, if you see our embassies, it seems like it's just a low country. It's a giant, which is sleeping, just like an elephant, who has to lift it up if he walks. That will take nine neighbour countries that will be walking with him. The Congo will be a power, a world power. It's just a matter of winning. And having the right leaders together, we could change the Congo. For various, stable and strong, I believe. Lula is shocked. I didn't know it was one of them. I'm talking about Lula, the Brazilian president. He's surprised and shocked how I got into the opposition. Opposition, it's not a house that has a door and then you get in. I have conviction, Christian, Republican and Democrat. And I want to say this. To attack the government, it's only just a face of the opposition. The real opposition, it's the one that has some concrete plans. What will you do for the government? And that's what you're going to read here. It's as a criticism of the government. We are not the only union. You forget that there are a lot of unions. Why don't you want there to be a union? Let's be together. Thank you. I don't know why anyone would want the job of president of DRC. I can't even moderate a session on it. Let's turn for some final comments from Evemba. I just want to say that the road ahead will be very difficult. It will take a lot of seriousness. And by that I don't mean that people are not working hard. People have been working hard in Congo, KD, others. But I think the time for committees to work together is the most critical election. 2006 was the prelude to getting on track to democracy. If we miss this, then we've missed the boat for a long time. It's always funny that the name is Democratic Republic of Congo. But we are so far away from democracy and we continue moving off and off track from democracy. I think another thing is also vision. When I was a child, the office of the president was something so big, so far away, so respected. I remember going to school and working by Mobutu's palace in Lubumbashi. So it was big. I worked by Chombay's house. Every day I went to college, back and forth. In those days, Catholic kids went to school twice. You went in the morning, you went home, you came back in the afternoon. So the idea of being a president, it was not given to everybody. I think that office has gone so down the drain. Nobody wants to be members of parliament. Nobody wants to be mayor. Everybody wants to be president. I think we need to take our sex seriously and review this. And maybe that will be started. I think the time for bottom-up leadership is now. And if we don't get that, forget it. That's my comment. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I think that's an excellent point to end on. I think Mr. Kamari, your work as president of the National Assembly shows that when there's a push there that you can have a real role. And I think our focus here in the United States shouldn't solely be on the presidency, but also on the legislative elections as well, and the broader institutional setting, although our focus tends to be on the presidency. I want to thank you very much for the very rich discussion, taking, fielding so many questions. I want to thank our audience. I know many of you came from far away. There's still some outstanding questions. We cannot take them at this time, because we are over time. Again, this will be webcast. We posted tomorrow along with some documentation that Mr. Kamari has brought. And we'll hope to have future events. If you haven't signed up, please do so and so that you're on our email distribution list. Thank you again. And thank you, Mr. Kamari and Mbemba Dizolele. Thank you very much.