 Welcome to think tech Hawaii. This is think tech show the state of the state of Hawaii, and it covers issues, features and functions affecting our state. I'm your host Stephanie stole Dalton. Today, we're talking about a state function education by covering one of the state's premier education institutions. We're an alum research and development group referred to as CRDG usually at the University of Hawaii Manoa. And it has been active and productive for Hawaii education and mainland students for decades, especially for its research and development of curricula, particularly inside science and math content areas, as others, but the US Department of Education has awarded grants to CRDG and its faculty since the 60s, the 1960s. CRDG is working to provide the most effective education right here in Hawaii and for students across the nation and internationally I'm sure to know I don't know. I've just heard generally about that but that would be interesting to hear about to our guest today for conversation about CRDG is its director. Welcome Dr Barbara Darity. Thank you for joining us today for this interview conversation about your your leadership and work at CRDG. Thank you for inviting me. It's a topic I love to talk about. So the curriculum research and development group is actually one of the oldest research groups that is not an externally funded research group in the US. We have a long history in the state of Hawaii beginning in 1966, but back then we were called the Hawaii Curriculum Center, and it was a joint venture with the Department of Education. In 1969 the curriculum research and development group became its own entity, and we've been on the Manoa campus and all of that time. So it does have a very long history, and there have been some consistent things that have been like the foundational part for CRDG and all of those years. So thank you for letting us have that opportunity to talk about it. Would you like to know about some of our projects? Yes, yes, and I was going to say for those here in Hawaii I'm sure know about the university laboratory school, which is nearby on the campus where this works takes place. It's a Hawaii public school with an association with CRDG. So that shows also your roots, you know, not just to the university, but your association too. You connected to the public schools of Hawaii. Well, yes, so I wanted to ask you how did you get to CRDG? In other words, what led you to do this and take this leadership position? Well, actually I came to CRDG in 1989, fresh out of graduate school, and had the distinct opportunity to work with the founding father of CRDG, Art King, and at that time, the university laboratory school and CRDG were one group. At this point in time, we're actually not because they're a public charter school now so we have an affiliation with them, they're still on our campus, but at that time we were all together. I think the thing that attracted me to CRDG was the fact that it wasn't just about doing research because a lot of times people think, oh, you get to do research, and you do research and you publish in a journal somewhere and it sort of goes away. One of the big opportunities that CRDG has is exactly what you mentioned is that we have a strong affiliation with schools, whether our first goal is to affiliate with Hawaii based schools, but our work is so robust that we're able to work nationally and internationally as well. And so that's what attracted me here is that part of our research work involves as we're developing curriculum, we have a very unique process as compared to other publishers. And so our first stage, we always theorize and conceptualize, you know, like what's really important for kids to learn and how can we teach it in a good way, right? And that's what we want to do is to support kids to learn. But the second step after we start designing, we actually go into the classroom and the researchers become part of the instructional team in the schools. So we get to try it out, we get to teach every day with kids, and it makes them the product that you have not only research based, but it's been tested for feasibility and practicality in the classroom, which are really important. And so we do something for schools. So that strong affiliation is what attracted me. So that's why what I was going to ask why research is important to teaching and learning. I think sometimes that's hard to understand since people see researchers, not so often at the level of classrooms or schools but in ivory towers somewhere that so that that makes the research that influences the research to be responsive to the challenges in the field. Maybe could you just talk about how that works how that information gets out of the field and to the researcher to decide to do the research on it. So I think one of the important things about doing research at a university is that you actually address issues and problems and challenges that are important to the stakeholders, right. So our stakeholders are teacher students, administrators in schools and school systems at large. And so we have a broad network of educators that we work with we have a strong tie with the Hawaii Department of Education and other educational entities that allow us to understand the issues that teachers are facing and certainly teachers are part of this group to right. So be able to understand what they're facing every day as they're working. So what are big challenges and one big challenge in our state is making sure that anything that we're teaching is open and accessible to all students so that we provide some equitable instructional pieces for kids so that they're everybody has a chance to learn and grow and have opportunities be open for them as they're moving forward in their career choice or in post secondary education. So that keeping that tight link with the field is really really critical. And that is important. One of the projects maybe just grab an example of that. Sure I'd be happy to. So there's some issues that are national in scope. And one of the issues that we have as an achievement gap with kids so we have some students who are doing really well but then when you look we have a large number of students who aren't doing quite so well in certain areas. So since math is my field I'm going to talk about a project that is math related because I know I know something about that project. So we started focusing on how do we support not just the students but also the teachers in helping the helping to lessen that achievement gap in mathematics. And so the curriculum is designed to first of all provide that different entry points for kids because even in a classroom you have so many diverse learners in terms of where they are in in accessing a particular topic area. So as we develop tasks we provide different entry points so that regardless of where the student is they can engage in that task at grade level. And that makes a huge difference for students because then they feel a part of the class they become more confident. And along with the good task design in a coherent curriculum we provide opportunities for teachers to learn new instructional strategies that will help them engage the students so that there's active participation and not just passively sitting and watching classical but that there's this active part to it as well. So that's one of the projects that highlights that. So how does that get communicated to the teacher. I mean I would understand if they're participating in the research that's one part right and then if they are participating in the research and then then the curricula that goes out for it or the curriculum then that gives that embodies the information about can you tell us a little bit exactly how that works like So we not only just write like task or develop a curriculum and it just sort of sits somewhere but we part of CRDG also includes a publication arm called marketing and publication services or maps. And in that group that subgroup within CRDG, we actually do production of materials so people can purchase materials directly from us some of ours are free and open access so depends on the product. And along with that professional learning experiences for teachers so in normal times we might be actually going out into schools and doing professional development with teachers face to face. Now we're doing some online synchronous professional development with teachers and working through different means by helping to support their own development of learning new techniques and and ways of engaging students. So two ways we actually produce the curriculum and then through professional development. And in that professional development is that continuing and ongoing how how do you operate with that that influence to them to how long do you work with the teachers. That is a great question and it's an it depends. Sometimes when we're working with teachers, it might be a shorter time frame so it might be over a period of say four or six weeks. Other times like we have in one of our projects it's a continual professional development that might extend one or two years, but spaced out so that teachers have time to learn some new techniques or strategies going to the classroom try them out. Come back talk about how that worked, get some coaching sort of like coaching techniques that we might use with the teachers. And it just provides more of a cohesion but being able to also link it to a curriculum is really important so even if they're not using our curriculum embedding some of their curriculum materials within that professional development, so that they optimally use them is another important part of making that professional development really substantive. Well, are you able to. Are you having some success with the virtual professional development, how is that working for you. Are you finding that work fits on to what you were doing before or have you had to make major. There's no question that it's different. Right. That's very different when being able to be face to face with people verse first virtually. That's, they're different. So we're making the best that we can we're learning new techniques of how to engage people in a virtual environment. That's been a good learning experience for us. I think this is a time when this pulls together a lot of people working together collaborative to figure out the best way that you can reach people. These are really professional development pieces that we're working with also engages teachers that are on the mainland. And so that's not even the opportunity to have a good conversation. Sometimes there's somewhere else because they're doing a field test with us on one of our curriculum projects so being able to connect with them and be able to model the kinds of instructional strategies that are important with children online raises a new level so we're We haven't done any evaluation studies to see how that professional development is going. But I'll definitely say that our learning curve has been exponential in trying to figure out new ways of engaging people online and we're very fortunate we have a learning technology group within CRDG. So, Dr Agnewian who is part of that group actually is she's a faculty member in that group she's been helping a lot with different techniques that we can use and supporting not only us internally but others outside of our group as well. That is very interesting and very forthcoming. Thank you. I wanted to know then you mentioned the mainland work. So are you finding the challenges in the work on the mainland similar are similar to those we have here. Can you tell a little bit about compare contrast why in the mainland and in within your work. Yeah, those are there are a lot of similarities and I think sometimes we can. We can provide new information for them and dealing with similar issues as well as they can help us and support us and doing thing or providing information about how they dealt with a certain thing because some things are similar. Then we have some things that are different. So, understanding the complexity of the educational system I think is a really big part of figuring out the best way to support teachers, students and administrators and the system at large. When we're working with schools on the mainland. Some of the challenges that they're facing are not quite quite the same. So for example in some of the areas indigenous populations might look quite different. It may also be the case that they're working with different demographics other than ethnicity or cultural aspects but there. There's still some similarities but the way in which they're dealing with them are quite different school setups are different. Obviously we're a state system and on the mainland, they're primarily locally controlled for the most part. So decision making looks a little bit different as well. I think that that part might be interesting too because of course as you know the Hawaii school system is all all segments of a very classified high poverty. So working under that rubric here is what might be different or is it different working here in this circumstance from working in on the mainland and in other school districts which are county supported or city bound or, you know, as well as state funded. So what do you see any differences as a result of that, that structural issue that we're unique in and everybody else is different. Yeah, and I think it plays out a lot in terms of recruitment of teachers. As you know we have a teacher shortage within Hawaii and who knows what that's going to look like after this year right. On the mainland they have a broader group from which they pull from. So the teacher shortage issue and finding certified teachers for the most part looks different than here. So dealing with the poverty issue I think there are pockets that are similar, but I think here it seems that the level and the concentration areas make it different in terms of how you deal with with the schools. So I think you're raising some good questions about that that and those are important ones right because that affects a large group of students and teachers. Do you have to put more resources into work here or there. Does it cost you more to do the work here in a system as Hawaii is versus the systems on the mainland. And then how our work is conducted it's, it's a wash right because we do our work here, and then it's disseminated nationally. The difference would be if we need to travel to the mainland to do any field test, we're gathering data professional development and that kind of thing. But our work is it, there's not that much difference in terms of the cost. Your question accurately. I think the one of the big advantages that CRDG has is that that strong foundational belief about how research is conducted makes the work significant enough that it allows us to create high quality products as a result of the research. And that's one of the things I think that's really important when you're working in a research unit is that there's actual products that go to the people that need to use that research and it's the products then are in a usable fashion. I think that that puts the drawbridge down doesn't it in terms of relationship building with teachers and trust and that willingness to open up to to the researcher. I keep there can be impediments in that relationship building without those advantages. I agree. And because we've taught the curriculum that we're developing because we've used it with children, it also makes us more credible when we're working with teachers. My personal belief is that if we're going to work with teachers, we need to be a teacher ourselves. And that means that we're able to go in and do what we're asking teachers to do, and we're not just giving them, you know how sometimes people come in, and they just say to teachers. This is what you need to do, but it's a very different story when you have to go in and actually do that with children, especially when you've got 28 or 30 children sitting and looking at you, and you have to be able to implement what you're asking them to do. Yeah, that's a big that's a big order. So I'm, I'm hopeful that every time that we work with teachers one of their takeaways is, you know, I can trust them because I know for a fact that they were a teacher and did this themselves. And so keeping up with the common changes in the classroom like what are teachers dealing with now that's different. Yeah, it's, I think it's important to have that credibility so that no matter where we are, we're able to work with with the teachers and the students in a pretty significant way. Well, I am very excited to hear you talk about it that way. I think that this has been an ongoing obstacle for, or what would it be an impediment for research and education is how it is that you build that relationship so you can actually be there in a work in a working together without status issues getting in the way, and I think breaking that down into being able to do it with the teacher, you know, you show there that you have an understanding of what the anyway I'm of what it is the teacher has to do to be able to do it so you're not coming in with just a theoretical and then an application that may or may not meet the needs of the practice. So, I mean, I guess I'm a little bit excited because I'm sort of surprised is your model, and I'm so glad to hear of it because in working in programs like that and coming upon that that that drawbridge is not down because they just don't want to have to deal with it they end up they feel the teachers may end up feel like they're educating the researcher when the research is supposed to come in with the understanding of how to go about this so I find that that's really interesting. And, certainly, the success signal a marker of some success. I'm sure that you're having as a result of that. Well, I just wondered if you think that COVID is your now when you're going in now you're not going into the classrooms anymore so right here we're talking about the evolving into this reset relationship that is truly joint and participatory and now we've got COVID. So, and this is part of your problem with the virtual right is because you actually be there as anybody. Have you been thinking about what to do about that going forward if we are going to have this over here. We have a new project starting in elementary science and the project is at the conceptualization beginning design stages. Normally at this point we would already be engaging with a teacher in a school to allow us to come in and test some things maybe on a preliminary basis but begin to get a sense of is this going to work. And then step back a little bit and be respectful of the fact that teachers are also now going through so many changes and to engage right now would probably not be the optimal relationship we'd like to have but respect that they need some space to get things out. The instability I think that we're facing right now in schools is definitely going to have an impact until we get a picture of what the landscape is going to look like in the next few months. So at this point, we're continuing on with the conceptualization, the design features, and hopefully within the next few weeks we'll be able to engage with a teacher even if it is online, being able to watch some classes and get a sense of what the classes look like. Before we step in, but having that opportunity to first give them a little bit of space so we've tried to be respectful of that. I think that's really important. This is a time where being a little bit too pushy or trying to do things as if everything is normal. I think it's time that we just allow a little bit of empathy and understanding to come into play and just wait for a little bit. Well, a little bit of stress is always supposed to be good for optimum performance with the kind of stress what he's under now is not anything at all. I'm not sure what a little bit of stress looks like right now. I can tell you what stress looks like, but I can't tell you what a little bit looks like. So as far as the topics, I know you've mentioned the math and can you talk about the different topics that you all have been successful in in making available to teachers and more usable ways. As you mentioned, we have science and math have been two of our main state programs and they have a long, long history in CRDG. In addition to that, we have projects and learning technology, especially with internet safety. And that project is coming to fruition at this point. So that's a good thing and is available so people can find a lot of these things on our website. And also, there's a picture that I sent that has some of the products that we have. History of Hawaii is another one. We're currently working on a new project with History of Hawaii for middle grades. And so that one hopefully will be out by next year at some point, but the high school history of Hawaii is available now. We also have projects that have focused on literacy for Native Hawaiian students and we have a new grant for that run by Hugh Dunn. We have additional projects that are working on things that are kind of to supporting some of these other projects. So for example, we have both a secondary and an elementary mathematics project so both of those running in tandem. The science project as I mentioned, and then another one of the science projects is just coming to fruition called OPHE project that focused on citizen science and allowing schools and teachers to engage in data collection. So that a lot of our projects are very similar in the respect that it's all about providing opportunity for students equity and access key number one in the work that we do. And you can tell by some of the projects that I mentioned. We also have a wellness project that's funded by the Department of Health run surveys with post secondary students, I mean I'm sorry secondary students. And we're also as part of our group we have the Hawaii after school alliance. And that's a project that focuses on providing after school opportunities for students across the state. And that's run by Paula Adams. So we have a lot of things happening. Are you doing anything with coding. I've just been hearing that that's such a topic in schools today at every level. I think they're even doing preschools with coding and computer science. So we have a grant that's under review or will be under review shortly in computer science, and we're hoping that that will be funded. And oh and another project that I forgot to mention is we're working on a needs assessment for career technical education. So there's a, again, like you mentioned there's a lot of those kinds of projects that all have a pretty significant impact on students moving forward. So thank you for asking about those. Thank you for sharing so much. I, I was wondering now about the bottom line so I know it sounds like you're supported by of course the University of Hawaii either state and certainly grant awards funders and I'm sure there are many of those coming your way. What does it look like going forward on on your income your your budget I guess we're doing all of these wonderful things what what do you see ahead. Wish we knew about that we still have not been given a budget yet I know that going for external funding is going to be highly competitive, because all universities are now under the gun for budget work clear across the nation. So any federal funding is definitely going to be highly competitive. So wish as well and hope that we stay competitive in that group. Do you see research being easy to beat fund. I think I think given that there are things that come from the research that can impact education. I don't see that as being separate if your research is completely separated from supporting challenges and issues of practice then I think that would be a hard sell. But when you're really supporting those issues that teachers are dealing with, I think it's still good to go. Yeah, let's hope that that's what the the deciders the decision makers have in their heads to it's very important. We have a little bit of time left. So I just maybe a minute so I was thinking there might be something you'd like to highlight or or talk about that's happening. I know you've already mentioned many projects and your special math project but is, is there anything else you'd like to say. I'll just say keep watching our website that new things will be coming out and we're looking forward to continuing the engagement with schools and we really appreciate the opportunity to be able to engage with schools and teachers across the state and I appreciate the time you've given to allow us to share that. I've really I think you've been very, very forthcoming and very informative and in about what CRDG the curriculum research and development group is doing near the University of Hawaii campus are and in the University of Hawaii campus at Manoa. So I really appreciate your being willing to share and we'll look for questions that come in and see what else we need to get you back to talk about more. Great and especially with your math work I know that people are really interested in how to how to make that that work a lot better for our students. So we are out of time, and it's our I call it our loha minute here and we'll have to wrap up so we've been talking with Dr. Barbara Darity, director of CRDG about the work under her leadership and this is think text show the state of the state of Hawaii and I'm your host, Stephanie Stolbalton look forward to you. Look, you're looking forward to seeing you again on Monday in two weeks. Thank you. Aloha. Mahalo.