 Welcome to Life in the Law. I'm your host, Michi Momose. And with me is my co-host, Pohai Nuihua Campbell. Joining us today is our guest of honor, Hawaii Women Lawyers 2020 Lifetime Achievement Awardee, Judge Barbara Richardson. Welcome, Pohai and Judge Richardson. Just to give a brief background before we get started, Hawaii Women Lawyers is a local nonprofit organization and our mission is to improve the lives and careers of women in all aspects of the legal profession, influence the future of the legal profession, enhance the status of women and promote equal opportunities for all people. We currently have about 300 members, including attorneys, judges, and law students. And Pohai and I are both members of the board of Hawaii Women Lawyers. Now, our annual awards are meant to recognize those individuals in our community who have helped to advance HWL's mission. The Lifetime Achievement Award in particular recognizes an individual in our community who has over their lifetime made significant contributions in areas that have advanced the mission of HWL. Typically we host a reception every year to recognize our awardees, but last year we unfortunately weren't able to do so due to the pandemic. So this is one in a series of five shows we're doing with life in the law to recognize our 2020 awardees. And now, without further ado, Pohai will be introducing our 2020 Lifetime Achievement Awardee. As mentioned, we are very honored to have HWL's Lifetime Achievement Awardee with us today, Judge Barbara Richardson. She, I'll give you a little bit of background about Judge Richardson and we will be talking with her today on our segment. Judge Richardson was sworn in as a district court judge in the First Circuit on May 5th, 2000 and continued to serve on the bench until her retirement in December of 2016. She was a deputy chief judge of the district court of the First Circuit for seven years, overseeing all of the district court judges within the First Circuit. Prior to her appointment as district court judge, she also served as podium judge for 14 years. She worked in private practice in Honolulu and San Francisco, as well as deputy corporation counsel for the county of Hawaii. She continues to serve on the board of the American Judicature Society and the Friends of Lyon Arboretum, as well as the Friends of the William S. Richardson School of Law. Thank you for joining us today, Judge Richardson. My pleasure. Yes, thank you. So, you know, we want to get into talking about sort of the breadth of your experience and your career. So, our first question, and that's a picture of your Lifetime Achievement Award that we sent last fall. So, you know, part of HWL's mission is we believe that increasing opportunities for and improving the visibility of qualified women in the judiciary is very important. We've hosted panels in the past and other events to educate members about the judicial selection process and just sort of encouraging women to apply for these judicial positions. So, you know, just to start off, could you maybe tell us about what made you interested in becoming a judge and what made you sort of take the leap into applying and becoming a judge? Well, before I start in on answering your question, I want to thank Hawaii Women Lawyers for the award. It was quite an honor and I appreciate it. I've got a kind of different story, but I think some of the questions that we might be talking about in further into the program will make sense. But I became interested in being a judge kind of by happenstance because I had some mentors who encouraged it and I had some friends who were young mothers as I was who were per diem judges. And so that's how I started. I had been practicing for several years and, you know, it's always fun to say to yourself, oh, I'd like to do that sometime. And I had one big personality in my background pushing me to do this. And that was my dad because he had appointed several of my friends to be per diem judges. And at that time, they were trying to struggle with the balance in work life that many women have and still have the pandemic has just highlighted how much that is still an issue for women. But because my friends who were per diem judges also were practicing and doing this part time, so I thought I would apply to be a per diem judge. I was given an appointment. And as Pohai told you, I served as a per diem judge in practice law for 14 years before I became a full-time judge. And I think we should all understand that women still face the struggle of the work life balance. And if you do want to become a judge, it's a very good path to becoming a judge if you serve as a per diem judge. Now, not everyone can do that because some of their law firms might not do it. But a lot of other people that I know that came up after me, they somehow handled being partners in law firms and being per diem judges. So that was the path I took. And I really think it's a good path and it gets you ready for thinking about applying for a full-time judge tip after you've gotten the experience you need. So that's kind of how I became a judge. What was that like in the beginning trying to balance being a per diem judge with the other practice of law, kind of on a day-to-day, how many days a week are you doing the per diem judge? Well, in the beginning, I was actually serving as a per diem judge quite a bit. And that was because I had two little children at the time. I started as a per diem judge when my son, who's a friend of Fohai, was a year old. So it was difficult, but better than trying to do too much, you know, too much. So kind of serve your time, part-time here, part-time there. And, you know, the 14 years that I was a per diem really gave me so much experience. I had really never practiced in criminal law, but as the years went by, you just learn, you teach yourself, you watch other people, you watch your favorite judges, and sooner or later you get to be proficient at all the calendars, which I really enjoy. I liked moving around. What did you find fulfilling about being a judge or is there anything that sticks out from your service? It's the greatest job, I must say. It's really a great job. And district court is, as you know, where lots of people have contact with the courts, and that may be their only contact with the court. So I really enjoy being in the district court. People keep telling me you should apply for this, that and the other thing, but, and I did occasionally put in my application, but I really like district court. It's a great place to be. I did sit civil a lot because that was my background. And before I became the deputy chief judge, I was the lead civil judge. So I handled mostly civil cases. But, you know, when I became deputy chief judge, it was actually harder to sit on the civil calendar. So I did try to sit on the criminal calendars, you know, arrangements, things that, preliminary hearings, things that didn't require follow-up because I was doing so much administrative work and sitting on all these committees. So it's really a great job. I loved it. I was just very lucky to have the job. I mean, I imagine it must be a pretty steep learning curve, especially with district court and, you know, all of the different areas that you have to learn. Was there a lot of kind of like collaboration between the judges and sort of learning from each other in that process? Circuit, I mean, district court is an ideal place to work. Everybody works together. You fill in calendars when somebody can't do it. There's so much collaboration. We all signed our documents in one room. So we always saw each other on a daily basis. Right before lunch, we'd all go down and sign papers. And then before going home, you'd see that all the judges down on stairs were signing their documents and reviewing documents. So it was such a collaborative work situation. And that's what made it really special. I enjoyed that part of it. And my colleagues were just wonderful. We bounced ideas off each other. If we had an issue that, you know, we had a research, we were researched and still couldn't really get a handle on it. We'd talk about it. So it's a great place to work. I can't say enough about it. What qualities do you think that women in particular have that are a career in the judiciary? Well, I think women are networkers. They network, they collaborate. They talk to each other. And I mean, they talk to their male colleagues too. But I think women have a quality of just collaborating. And the other thing I think is that in my generation, it seems like we had to work harder than anybody. And we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be the best we could. And that's really all that you can do is to try to be the best at what you do and things fall into place. You know, as I said, I didn't really have a criminal law background, but I studied those statutes. And you know, you just have to do a lot of studying, teach yourself, memorize all those codes, those HRS codes. And by the time, by the time I retired, I can probably still tell you what some of the sections are. But women have the ability to, I think, to be decisive because you have to make so many decisions in your work life, your family life, you know, can I do this? Should I do this? And I think some people who want to become judges have a difficulty making a decision. So that is one thing that you really need to understand about the job. Your job is to be decisive. You understand about the job. You're there, you're hearing the evidence, but you have to decide. There's no jury. You're the one who has to do the research and study and read the memos and hear the arguments, take notes. But in the end, you're the one that has to make the decision. So you're one of those people who has difficulty making decisions. It might not be the place to be, but I think women have a really good background. I just think women network and collaborate and work with other people. I'm not saying better, but more often. Maybe that's it. Yeah, I've heard that women kind of network in it, maybe in a different way sometimes, then you might think of when you hear the term networking, sort of women network in the process of working together on projects and things like that, maybe not like going up to someone at a cocktail party and things like that. But yeah, I think the collaborative nature of how women view things could be really helpful in being a judge. So I think one more thing too, that's a quality that women have is, I find that women are more flexible and adapt to changes in their lives. This pandemic has really been hard on women, I think. And it's always been hard on women, but the pandemic just kind of highlighted it, especially kids, especially those with little children. Now, for some reason, it still falls on more women to take care of children, arranged daycare, elder care. I hope it's changing for the better, and I think it is. But you have to rely on your spouse, your partner, you have to also rely on your kids to understand that you can't always be everywhere. And you can't always say yes. You have to say no sometimes, no, I can't do that. You don't have to go to every single baseball game or volleyball game, oh, hi. You just have to, you can't be there all the time. So you do have to be flexible with your time and adapt and read in your car while you're waiting to pick up kids. Catch up with friends and family while you're commuting. Hands free, of course. Yeah, I do mean, I think a lot of what you shared resonated with me, and I wanted to touch on, you mentioned some mentors in your past that shaped kind of your career and likely your personal life as well. What you women lawyers has been focusing on, the importance of mentoring and mentorship relationship for women lawyers starting out in their careers. And sometimes a really great mentor makes all the difference in your path and your experience and having a positive experience. So what, or who has mentored you in the past and in what ways? Well, to start from the beginning when I graduated from law school, we're living in San Francisco. My husband was still in school and I had to get a job and I didn't have to go to school. I had to get a job and I did. And I just was lucky. I landed at a little law firm. The partners were really good to the associates. And they didn't just say sink or swim. They were happy to answer questions. And I always had a lot of questions, but they didn't, they didn't say, this is your assignment. Go do it. They would help and educate. And, you know, of course I didn't have children. So, and I was on Hawaii time most of the time. So I would go to the office really early, make the first pot of coffee for everyone, turn the heat way up because it was always so cold. And I was always so cold in San Francisco. And I would just work for probably two hours before everybody came in. They rolled in around nine, you know, and I had been there for a couple hours already. So, but the partners were the type of people who said, I know you're new. Here's how you, this is how I want you to do this. If go and do it, try it, see if you have any questions. And, and then ask any questions that you have. So I would say the two people that I worked with in San Francisco, the two main partners that I worked with, they were, they got me off to a really good start. And then when I, when I became, well, I practiced on the big island for a while and I was, you know, I was actually there with a lot of people my age, for some reason. And so we, we bounced ideas off of each other and I think mentorship can mean relationship with coworkers, you know, you can learn from your coworkers, you have things that you can offer and teach other people about things that you've learned in your background. And then when I came to Oahu, I think Judge Betty Vitusic was the really wonderful mentor that I had. She encouraged me to apply for full-time judgeship and after I, you know, became a podium judge. And by the way, I and many of the judges have applied several times to become judges and didn't get appointed. You can't give up and Judge Vitusic once said to me, because I was just so that, you know, I just didn't want it to give up applying. And she said, you know, you can't get what you want unless you actually apply for it. So I kept doing it and eventually I got something. And I, she was very influential. As were a lot of my friends who were podium judges and they helped me, you know, it was a new job. They were happy to help. And, you know, even I think when I became a mentor, I would learn from the people I was mentoring, you know, law clerks. You know, I grew up in the age where you still jeopardized with books and not with, you know, so a lot of them would help me, you know, just with the Westlaw, with just everything that I didn't grow up with in my career. So, you know, mentoring means it goes both ways. Sometimes I learned a lot from young law clerks or new judges who had been practicing. And I had been out of practice for a while. So I learned a lot from all those people. And so I think mentorship, especially the opportunities presented from Hawaii women lawyers, you've got so many people that you can talk to if you make the effort. And I think sometimes women are scared to approach others. But, you know, whenever anyone approached me, I welcomed it. And as I say, maybe I could be a mentor to them, but they could also teach me things. So I think Hawaii women lawyers provides women with so much opportunity to enhance your experience. And just to give you some confidence, Hawaii women lawyers is excellent in that respect. Thank you. I have a question. I don't know. Yes, I mean, that's so nice of you to say that about Hawaii women lawyers. And I hope that we can continue to provide those sort of, you know, formal mentorship opportunities, but also just opportunities to meet people outside of your area of practice. I mean, I know that's what it's provided for me, even just through the board, you know, getting to know people who I wouldn't have come across in my regular practice otherwise. I think in terms of getting a judgeship to a lot of people, self-select out of line, you know, you can't say to yourself, well, I don't have those qualifications. Well, I think maybe Hawaii women lawyers and just observing in court, the court you want to apply to, go and watch. I don't know what the pandemic has done about the observation these days, but, you know, I would tell people who wanted to become pretty and just go, go watch. You know, I would tell them which judges I thought were sort of a similar personality and just go and observe and if you have some weaknesses in your experience, try to find a way to learn or talk to other people about it and see what you can do to plug those holes. And I think that's basically what you do to help yourself, you know? Definitely. I really like the advice of just don't give up because sometimes you know when you see other people at the peak of their careers are sort of looking back and so it's really nice to hear from you, you know, that you just didn't give up and it led to this long and successful career for you. Thank you. I think it's a really good goal if you feel like you have the experience or want to get the experience to be a judge, you can do it. It does take work. Well, I think that, you know, 30 minutes has flown by and we are running out of time now. Do you have any last words or Paul, how you have any last comments before we wrap it up? I'll leave you with the last word, thank you for spending time with us today. And I think that you have probably served as a mentor and example, I know for me personally, but for many, many women in legal career and in the judiciary as well. So thank you again for all of your service and we're honored to have the time with you today. Well, I want to tell you that I actually got a lot of credit for doing things that were done by a team. So I mean, teamwork is great. And so I appreciate the award. It's not all me. Lots of people helped me achieve the things that I think I did achieve. Well, thank you. And congratulations again on your lifetime achievement award. It is so well deserved. And I think it's the credit for you that, you know, in receiving this award, you like to shine a light on everyone who helped you along the way. And to the viewers, thank you for joining us for today's episode. And thank you to my co-host, Ohai Nuhiwa Campbell. The next life in the law segment will be on Monday, May 17, 2021 at 3pm. Thank you for tuning in and aloha.