 All right, great. So I am calling to order the May 22nd meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly at 2.02 PM with the extension of Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And this meeting is being recorded. I'm going to take a moment to make sure that assembly members can be heard and can hear. And I will start with Dr. Rhodes. I can hear. Okay, great. We can hear you. Alexis. Hello. Hello. And Dr. Shabazz. Greetings. Glad to be with everyone. All right, great. So let me just see here. Just give me one moment, please. All right. So Jennifer is going to try to come back. I think she had something she needed to do it too. You'll see on the agenda, there are several upcoming community events that the AHRA may be interested in. There is the upcoming basketball tournament, which is also the Youth Hero Awards. And there's the Race Amity Day community event, and there's Juneteenth. So I'm hoping that Jennifer will have the opportunity to share a little bit with us about each of those events and how we might be able to participate or collaborate. So we'll wait to hear from her on that. I also wanted to make an announcement. I was hoping more members would be here, but for the sake of time, I'm going to go ahead and announce. Oh, let me see. Okay. All right. So I'm announcing that it was announced today on the Bill Newman show, WHMP, that Dr. Amilkar Shabazz will be the new host of Black in the Valley. Dr. Shabazz is taking this over from Dr. Karli Tartakov and Reverend Jacqueline Smith Crooks. I believe they've been in that role for 13 years, is that right? Okay. So that is a huge, just wonderful, first of all, honoring of their incredible work and what they have done to make that program so special in the community. And also a huge congratulations to you, Dr. Shabazz and to Dr. D. Shabazz for being the new hosts. So awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, and if you wanted to say anything, love to hear anything. Just, you know, reaching out to folks for, you know, good ideas for shows, for programs within talk to talk. And it's just it's a brief segment, but it gets out to a lot of people. And if you're interested, yeah, just give me a shout and glad to work on an idea. Excellent. And Dr. Shabazz, is that what is the schedule going forward? Is it going is Black in the Valley still going to maintain the same schedule that it had? So we we're talking about kind of right now, at least being a little bit flexible, there are certain days and events and things like Juneteenth and other things coming up on the calendar that we want to we want to kind of be, you know, responsive to to the audience and what they may be on their mind. But but yeah, so it's a segment of talk to talk that has traditionally aired on on Mondays around 9 30, between 9 30 and 10 in the morning. But every every other Monday or so. But but but for right now, we're we're going to be flexible and just but find creative ways to get the word out of when we when we will be airing. Excellent. Well, congratulations again, and looking forward to it. And I see that we have Miss Bridges and also, hallo, who have joined us. So I'm going to make sure they can hear and be heard. And halla, welcome. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes, can hear you. I can. All right. And Miss Bridges, can you hear us? I think you're muted, Miss Bridges. I can hear you but not but I won't be on camera. Okay, no worries. And that's good to say out loud. Thank you, because I think there's some glitch where if people in the attendees are watching for folks who are not on camera, it doesn't even appear. I think a box doesn't even appear. So I just want to make sure folks know that Alexis Reed and Miss Bridges, both who have their cameras off are here with us. All right, so that was the announcement that I had. Again, I hope Jennifer comes back to talk about the upcoming community events. And then before we get into sort of the the meat of our discussion today around the listening sessions that we've had over the past week and a half or so, I wanted to let folks know that there's an update on the survey. So we were able to meet with the Dunahue Institute and take the feedback from last meeting. We presented that feedback to Kerry and Ellen and they are going to be providing us what we have asked for in time. So they're going to get it to us actually by the end of this week. So the next time that we meet, we'll have that information. And of course, if there's anything else that arises, for example, when we met with the Poku group, it was clear that there were students who wanted to participate in the survey. So they'll be provided with written or I'm sorry, paper versions. And I've talked to Kerry and Ellen about how we can incorporate that back. So any questions on the survey? Alexis, I know you've been a little out of the loop here. So if you have any questions, please let me know. Thank you. No, I was able to review the stuff that you sent. It was very interesting. So yeah, I don't I don't want to repeat anything that's already been said, though. Okay, all right. So before we go on, I'm going to call our first period of public comment. And let's just see here. As I said, I'm also hosting this, so it will take me just a moment to move people. During the public comment period, the chair will recognize members of the public when called on, please identify yourself by stating your name. If you'd like to state your pronouns and your address, residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes. We will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised, but we will be listening very carefully. So if you would like to make a public comment, again, we will have a second period later in the meeting, but please go ahead and use the raise hand function and we'll bring you in. Just wait a few seconds here. Okay. So I'm not seeing any. So I'm going to close the first period of public comment. And in misbrages, I just wanted to let you know that you are unmuted. So if if you that's fine, there you go. Okay. All right. So before we get into the discussion or discussion around the listening sessions, I wanted to talk about the structure for the rest of our meetings so that we can have a plan that can get us to the finish line here. And what occurred to me is we have these three items that are on our agenda. They've been on our agenda. They're from our charge that we have yet to fully deliberate on and in some cases where motions may need to be made and action need to be taken. And with the holiday coming on Monday, we will miss a meeting for the Memorial Day holiday. So my recommendation and I'd like to pull the group is for us to hold a final retreat. I think having a retreat space to answer some of these questions. And again, I can just quickly for those who might be listening, we have three items on our agenda that come from our charge. One of them is ongoing funding streams. Another is an allocation plan, including eligibility criteria. And the last is additional means of repair and truth and reconciliation. Would there is there the energy time capacity will for folks to get together for a retreat at a time that is acceptable for most, if not all of us where we can focus up primarily on those three issues without any of the other announcements and administrative pieces of our work. So I'm just going to open the floor and see what folks think about that idea and then we'll go from there. And maybe I will just go around and ask folks. And just to think about timing, I was thinking either on like a Sunday or in the evening for maybe a two hour time period. So let me start with Dr. Shabazz. I'm just going to go in order as I see people on the screen and see what folks think. Dr. Shabazz. Say the the date again you were recommending. I think in principle, it's a great idea. But what was the date again, Sunday? So there's no date set, but I was thinking that we could either go for a Sunday or we could do it on an evening. Like for example, not that everything is centered around the town council, of course, but given that I'm also a counselor, we our next meeting is not until actually we have a meeting on June 5th. So somehow I thought that maybe a Monday Monday before then was available, but it's not. But anyway, I was thinking about an evening where there's not another community or you know, relevant committee meeting happening or a Sunday afternoon. Yeah, Sunday afternoon or as you say, if there's a agreeable evening meeting, then I think in principle, though, it'd be a great kind of working session. You know, a lot of times retreat just signals some kind of warm and fuzzy sort of thing. But at other times, it's really about a working session. So I think it would be a good, you know, working session for us. Okay, excellent. And Dr. Rhodes, you're muted, Dr. Rhodes. Still muted. I'm definitely for that. Okay, excellent. Alexis. So I guess I don't want to, I will default to whatever, I'm two days past my due date, so I can't make any promises about anything. Alexis, what are you talking about? Absolutely. Oh, that's so exciting. I'm so excited for you. Okay, wonderful. Hala. Yes, I'd be down for that. And I'm sorry, rooting for you, Alexis. Kalila was 10 days past my due date, but I feel your baby's not going to be that long. So I would love a retreat. Sorry. All right, great. And Ms. Bridges, I'm good, I'm good with it. Okay, awesome. Right now I'm good with it. Yeah, but I'm sure I'll be okay with that. Yeah, and we'll make sure to try to, you know, I'll send a doodle poll following this meeting and provide some dates. And of course, Yvonne will also receive those dates and we'll make sure that we try to get as many of us there as possible. And I will also, of course, check in with Jennifer and Pamela and Metia for those, for that, for that. So that will give us, if we can find a day in time to do that, I think that will free us up. It will also give folks an opportunity to join us who are really interested in those debates and discussions that we have to have and have that be a time that we can really just focus on those things. So all right, great. So what I was hoping we could do is to talk a little bit about the listening sessions that we have had just to remind folks over the past about a week and a half, we have met with the Poku group at the high school that's People of Color United, Mary Custard helped and supported us in setting up a meeting with them. And that was a really enlightening and very meaningful session. We also met with all of them, I will just say all of the listening sessions have been very meaningful, different in nature and have really just I've really been so grateful that we've had these opportunities to be in these spaces with folks. So the second was with the Survival Center. And then the one that happened yesterday was with the BB AAA and that is the big business, the Black Business Association of Amherst. I also did meet with the director of the bid, Gabrielle Gould and the director of the chamber, Claudia Pazmati, and we had a really excellent discussion as well. So I'm going to put that to the end just to say what action steps we talked about in terms of follow up there. But I first wanted to just open up the floor to see if assembly members who participated in any of these would like to share thoughts or feelings or, you know, anything really, I would just say that Matia was there to scribe and take notes so that we can at some point be able to synthesize what we learned and put them forward as recommendations, potentially to form recommendations from what we heard. So I'm going to open the floor and any assembly members who would like to speak. And if you were not able to attend and you just want to, if you have any questions, please feel free as well. Yes, hello. Oh, can you hear me? Yes. This switch to the car. Unfortunately, I was only not unfortunately, fortunately, I was able to attend one. And sadly, I had to miss the others due to work and concert. We had a concert yesterday, the gospel choir. But I was really amazed, grateful and held what the students had to offer. Sadly, it wasn't anything new. But it's really important to hear that it is still going on. They're much, they're very aware of what's going on in terms of racial harm on a daily basis. And I really appreciate their input. And then I didn't look at the agenda yet. Would this be the place to inquire about an honorarium or stipend? Or is that later on the agenda? Hala, this would be a perfect opportunity to raise that. Yes, please. Okay. So we went in to a black and brown space and we asked them for their time and their emotional labor. And as we know, like capitalism is only as successful as it is because it was born on the plantations and on the exploitation and devastating harm to black bodies. So I've learned that when people are like, let's pick their brain, find a black person, brown person, give me your input, but I'm not going to offer you anything. It just doesn't feel okay. And it feels like it's a repetition of the cycle. And I wish I thought of it earlier. But while I was sitting there, I was like, Ooh, what? I think we need to offer them some compensation. They're not asking for it, but they gave their time and their emotional labor and maybe even opened up some trauma. And money, money can't really touch that. But it feels as a way to honor their labor by offering Poku an honorarium or a stipend in gratitude for their service to us. So I just wanted to bring that before the council committee and see if that's something or assembly, we're an assembly. See if that's something the other members would be interested or willing to discuss and or vote on and do. Thank you. Thank you, Hala. And I think I saw Dr. Shabazz's hand go up. You're muted, Dr. Shabazz. Thank you, Hala. I like, in principle, where you're coming from. As a matter of procedure or whatever, I wish we could have, you know, well, we're thinking about it now and talking about it now. I just would say it would be important to think, you know, in an even handed way in terms of, you know, other sectors of the black community where we, we asked them to do the same thing to open up the same, their same emotions and what not to share with us. And so we did also meet yesterday with members of the business community in Amherst, African, descendant peoples who have businesses in the town. So, you know, I think we want to think about being consistent in whatever policy we, if we do it for POCO, we need to think about doing it for BBAAA and any others that that we may get together with if we, you know, we've gone to your church, we've been to your church to distribute, you know, leaflets and cards and people have opened their doors. I'm just really so proud and amazed of how the black community and various organized sectors of the black and larger BIPOC community have embraced us, have opened themselves to us, have shared, you know, and held space with us. I'm really so honored because, I mean, I realize, I get it, reparations, the whole concept is way out on a limb. And I'm taking a moment here, Irv. I know I'm going into paragraph mode, but my final paragraph is to say this, because Hala has triggered it in her, in the brilliant way that she always does, that, you know, when the community, the community that has experienced the kind of harm and comes out of a whole background of slavery, you know, we, we've been there before. We've had folks come, rah, rahs that, you know, today this is going to change things, or today we're going to make right, you know, for the past wrongs. And, you know, and so at some point you just kind of, a lot of times feel like, yeah, let me just hold, hold myself, you know, to myself, I'm not, I'm not, you know, what is this about? But we've, we've had a lot of the community in a very short amount of time. I'm talking about the black community now, people of African heritage, African descent, to come around and to open themselves, you know, that nearly a hundred or whatever that identified and took the survey that way. The other ways people have led us in, you know, the, the, in that pokus space, the, the folks speaking out there and, and the things they shared. I'm, I'm deeply, deeply moved. And so I absolutely here to the extent we represent the town of Amherst and the town's interest in this matter, I absolutely embrace that idea of the stipend. But I might also say that maybe, you know, a bigger stipend is coming down the line that can help groups based upon our report and based upon our work. So maybe if we don't approve it for all the groups, then I might say, let's, you know, I think we're going to still reach that same end is my hope. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. Dr. Rhodes. You know, I think it's a great idea. But philosophically, I'm just against it. I believe, I believe in public service, I believe in civic engagement. And I believe that that is something that one gets freely, especially when you're a part of a group that voluntarily comes to participate in an event such as what happened with Toku. I don't think it would be right or appropriate to compensate someone for that particular opportunity afforded them to allow them to express their opinions, etc. It's something that for me, I want young people to be engaged in civic civic activities and civic and engaged in such a way that they know that this is something they're doing freely in terms of their own free will, not in terms of whether they're going to be compensated for in terms of any monetary way, but they will be compensated in relationship to their satisfaction in terms of participating in a really solid, good, civic project. Thank you, Dr. Rhodes. Does anyone else like to weigh in on that? Hala, I just wanted to ask you. Oh, yes, please. Hala, is your hand raised? Oh, you can ask the same question. OK. I was going to hear. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead, please. Yes. You can ask your question. I'm sorry. Oh, I just wanted to clarify. No one we touched base briefly about it after the Poku listening session. We had or you had at least the way I interpreted it was that we would offer a don't like we would make a donation to the Poku group for some, you know, whatever it is that they require a budget for. That's how I understood it. It wasn't like individual stipends or honorarium to individual members of Poku. Was I is that is that fair? That is fair and that is correct. And I think it can be a both and they came as of their free will, not even thinking about a stipend or the money and engaging in civic duty. But I also feel I still really, really feel strongly that we compensate black and brown bodies specifically or everybody for their emotional labor and emotional time. And so they're young and just getting to civic and then they're like, oh, we were rewarded by this this time. And or you start to see we're rewarded by policies changing and things doing that. But so I hear Irv's point. Absolutely, we're not bribing people to be engaged in civic duty. But I also know I'm exhausted and working like 80 hours a week just to live in Amherst. So civic duty takes an extra toll out of some of us that really are emotionally and labor laboriously labor something stretched and spent. So it's not that I I want more black and brown folks engaged in our civics, but so many are overworked, underpaid. And so I don't have a problem offering Poku a thank you, a gratitude, a donation. So and I hear both points, but I also don't think it's either or I think it'd be a both and thanks. Thank you, Hala. Well, I could see this potentially having more discussion and potentially going to a vote if we felt that we needed that. But before we do that, maybe what would be helpful is for me to check in with the town manager and just see sort of what the process would be for making a donation to Poku to the BB triple A and to any of the other organizations in which we had the opportunity and the privilege to listen. Does that sound like a good way to move forward for now? And then we can address this again at a future meeting. I see Dr. Herbs Rhodes hand up and I think Dr. Shabazz also was going to say something. So let's go to Dr. Rhodes and then Dr. Shabazz. I agree with you, Michelle, in terms of approaching the town manager. However, I would want the approach to be on the basis of that the AHA is thinking of making various contributions to various groups for any number of reasons. But I would exclude the idea that we're making these contributions because of their participation. OK, thank you, Dr. Rhodes and Dr. Shabazz. Did you want to add something? Yes, so I think that's a good plan of action that you suggested going forward. The police check on and I just would have you to remember that early, early on when we talked about the little pool of money not touching the money's being saved in the capitalization account. But there was a like a little pool of money that was discretionary for us for community outreach. We kind of already were on this road. We didn't discuss it in the form of stipends for I mean, we didn't get down into the details, but I always took it that the little monies we said we had for operational kinds of things. This is perfectly what I think we had in mind going way back. If I recall, the town manager just said, talked to us about the way to requisition it, that that he was in full agreement with, you know, with the concept of us needing some little operational funds as a town committee. So yeah, this is just part of that. This is just found out operationally. How do we do that? But we always anticipate. I don't think we anticipated operational funds just to pay, you know, University of Massachusetts, Donahue Institute. That's that's not what we talked about paying white people to do things. So we had in mind pay, you know, compensating or doing things to help promote this word in the particular force and foremost in the black community. So I think this is right consistent with it. I appreciate you raising this up. All right, great. Would anyone else like to add to this discussion? OK, well, the floor is still open. If there are any discussions related to any of the listening sessions, while folks are maybe thinking about that, I'll just update you on the meeting that I had. I think we may have just lost Hala. Let me just make sure. Just going to pause us for one second here. OK. I don't see Hala in the audience in the attendees. So hopefully she'll be able to come back. So I'll just take a moment to update you on the meeting that I had with the bid and the chamber directors this past week. So we had the opportunity to get together and talk about a little bit more about what's in our charge, what we're working on here and what we're hoping to accomplish in terms of our final report. And one of the sort of pathways that we identified is the chamber has in mind chamber has an equity committee. Jennifer Moyston is a member, I believe, of that committee. And what I have asked of Claudia is the ability to send some information about our work to Claudia with some sort of direct inquiry of the equity task force regarding what recommendations they may have. So really asking the committee of the chamber to the equity committee of the chamber to think about recommendations that they may want to suggest to us. You may have seen that the equity committee has hosted some community listening or community outreach opportunities recently. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to attend. I think there were two of them. And I'm not sure if they've been recorded, but my understanding is they've been well attended. So my suggestion is that I will send Claudia an email and ask her to put that question out to the equity task force and give them the opportunity to learn more about our work. And of course, they'd be welcome to come and speak with us if they'd like or just to provide us some written feedback in terms of what recommendations they may see are relevant to the work they're doing and the job that we have of completing our final report. But I am also open. That's sort of just what organically came out of the discussion as a possible pathway in terms of engaging. And I'm certainly open to other suggestions that the assembly may have. I think Dr. Spas, did your hand just go up and welcome back. Hala, can you hear us? I'm good. I'm good. Yes. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. OK. So if everyone's OK with that approach, then I'll follow up with Claudia today with an email and and then be able to update everybody at the next time that we meet. So with that, really, the floor is also continued to be open regarding the listening sessions. If there are any other pieces of feedback that folks would like to offer. I know that Matia is working, you know, I just really want to appreciate Matia for stepping in to this with us. She attended all of the listening sessions and I know she's working on getting notes together that can be prepared and shared with assembly members. And I see Alexis's hand is up. Yeah, so well, the first thing is I do notice that a mill car junior is in the panelists just putting that out there and hi, a mill car, by the way. I'm very curious and I know that some things can be sensitive, but I'm very curious to hear if anyone can share anything about the conversation with oh, man, what you guys were saying, something real cool and easy. What was it, BB triple A? Yeah, yeah, I'm very I'm very curious to hear if anything can be shared from that meeting. Some some some good things that came out of that, please. Yes, let me open the floor for that. But before I do, so is, in fact, a mill car junior with us as a panelist or was that just a second he can be transferred back over to participants. I think maybe in the next round of public comment, he might have something to say, but for now he can be back over and and just attendees in the OK. And now I'm sorry, Dr. Shabazz, I'm just seeing your chat note on that matter that you sent earlier. OK, so let me go ahead and just send a mill car junior back for now. And then and thank you, Alexis, for for also pointing that out. And and then the floor is open in response to Alexis's question about the BB triple A meeting. I think she was even asking for Poku as well or just just that one. Anything, anything. Yes. So kick it off, Herb. In terms of the black business yesterday, it was an incredible discussion. Very full on discussion, actually not the discussion we were listening for most of the time. But one of the things that I came away with, I mean, I had a lot of things that I came away with. And I had a lot of comments in my mind in terms of responses that I would want to make. But then I thought about it and I said, you know, we were listening and a quote came to my mind. Most of you may not know or might know that I got my degree in doctorate in counseling, psych and organizational development. And one of the things that in terms of my counseling, psych background and then dealing with that in relationship to my internship and counseling, et cetera, one of the heroes of my training and when my training and also part of my part of the philosophy that I had came from a quote by Carl Jung, the psychologist and psychiatrist. And he said that it really doesn't make any difference whether what the person says is true or false. It's the meaning that that story has to them. So when I thought about that, I thought, you know, listening to all of this and hearing it from the Black Business Group, that these are their stories. And that whether there are parts that are true and parts that is false, makes no difference. What it is, what really is important is the meaning of those stories to the individuals who were telling them. And so I want to set with that and say, I want to absorb the meaning of those stories and dispense with whether they were right, wrong and different or whether it was good information or bad information. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes. And yes, Dr. Shabazz, I can do that and I'll do that right now. I don't know if you were going to add to Dr. Rhodes comments. You're muted. Thank you. I just would say what was so great about both the Poku and the BB Triple A is that we were going to, you know, a space of folks from in the Black community and larger BIPOC community and listening to them about what comes up from the topic or the call to Black reparations, what comes up. And that was again, as I said earlier, that was so huge. I get Dr. Herve Rhodes like myself. He comes from the John, if John Kennedy generation, you know, we were off to the moon. You know, thanks to John Kennedy dreaming big. And so the question was or the principle was ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. And so Earth and I, we come out of that generation. You dig so where it's like us, not what the town can do for you, but what you can do for the town. Boom, I get that. It's that 60s Kennedy-esque generation. But baby, it's 2023. And folks, folks are sick and tired of being sick and tired. You dig like Miss Fannie Lou Hamer said in that same 60s generation. We sick and tired of being sick and tired. You dig. So that's where stipends. That's where all this language of repair and care is coming from. Is that the, you know, the town, the government owes a check, as Dr. King said, on the Mall in 63. And we're here to cash the check at the Bank of Justice. Huh. So like that, it's a different time. And, you know, you're going to just go out in a civic mindedness and engagement. You never read Bowling alone. I mean, we in a whole different time. We in a whole different place and space. So we've got a whole space for other kinds of experiences that are going on. In people's lives. So for me, it just was everything that we could go to the salon there, writing, you know, in global cuts, where if you black, you know, global cuts and you know, Amherst extension and beauty salon, right? And that they open up the space and open up their heart. Brother Kayama opened up his heart to tell us how he's seeing from somebody that's been in business in this community over 30 years. Oh, man, it meant everything, Alexis. It meant everything. I wish, you know, if the if the video could have, you know, if we could have had Amherst media and everybody would have been cool. But it probably didn't need to be on Amherst media. It was intense. It was deep, right? Because we talk about the harms and the this and the that of slavery and of Jim Crow and Ray here. You were right there in it. We were in it. So we've got important work to do here. And Alexis, these listening sessions with Poku and BB Triple A was everything to me in terms of, you know, inspiring and getting at what this report and what we're really here to turn in in in less than a month now. So that's from my heart, Alexis. I hope, you know, and Deborah and Hala. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. Dr. Roads, I see your hand is up. Is that a hole? Yeah, it's up. OK. I think it is. Maybe Dr. Shabazz, I really. I understand and appreciate where you're coming from. It's just not just John F. Kennedy. It really isn't. It's also Martin Luther King, right? It's also my my father and his. His. Friends who I witness as a very young man, taking shovel and digging the foundation for the church. No one paid them. They had already spent. Eight hours underground in a coal mine. I stand on their shoulders. I am not. The men that they were just nowhere close. And that image always comes to me when I think about civic duty, civic responsibility, civic engagement, preparing the ground for the community. And what I heard yesterday, I felt it just as deeply as you did. I was really deeply moved by it is not. And and. Being moved by it and then using my discernment and information and experience and interactions with a lot of them through the process of the various funding grounds. I did have information, but as I said. The objective stuff is not important. It is the subjective experiences of those who were going through it. That is the most important. It and again, it matters. It matters not whether the stories are true or false. It's what is does matter is the meaning of those stories to the people who are telling them. And that's what I take away from it. And I use, you know, I leave everything else. Alone and just set with the stories. Thank you both for those sharings. I think of the group. I may have been the only one who was at the survival center. Jennifer Moisten and Pamela were both there, which is wonderful. And Earl Miller was also with us. And he did bring two press responders. And I feel terribly that I don't have their name right here. I'm going to get their names. And I'm going to make sure that I input those the next time we meet. But what I wanted to say about that listening session is it was, I think, unique the folks that we were listening to primarily in that listening session were folks who, I believe, self identified as white and who had really critical and complex questions to pose regarding what reparations means in a town like Amherst. And so I'll be really, will be really great for you to see Matias notes when those are prepared, because it was a very interesting discussion. I'll also share that there was an opportunity for some feedback from Crest as well, which was, you know, I actually would prefer not to be identifying in that manner right now. But so there was, but it was an excellent opportunity for listening and I'm really grateful to the survival center that they opened a whole space in the back for us. And they were very welcoming. They made sure to let everybody there know. And we did get to have some individual conversations during community lunch. If you're not all aware, you anyone listening to this, if you're not aware that the Amherst Survival Center offers a community lunch, it's open to all people. It begins at noon, I think it's noon to two and I think it's five days a week and it is the most delicious, delicious food. We the person who runs the kitchen or at least one of the people. Philip is also a member of the Human Rights Commission, Philip Avila, as well as the Community Safety and Social Justice Committee, and he just does a fantastic job along with so many other volunteers over there. So that's what I'll say right now about that one. And I'm just looking to see if Alexis, did do you feel a little bit more filled in with respect to your question? Well, I regret not being able to be there, definitely. But I guess I. I. Yeah, I think I just I think I need to like think a little bit more. But I think that that's really great that we've like as an assembly, haven't have gone into these spaces and made these connections and are, you know, building these bridges. And so, I don't know, I want to thank everybody for their work so far. Thank you so much. Thank thanks and thank you for the update on the survival center or the debrief on the survival center. Let me say, you know, the particular takeaway, Alexis, I would say from both meetings is a clear acknowledgement that there are real disparities. This isn't just a subjective phenomena that, you know, OK, that's subjectively what they think there was people are clear that in the BB triple A that black business people have experienced some different kinds of challenges and this can definitely be looked at as something related to the prevalence of structural racism. In our town, still today. OK, and so likewise with Poku, it was like some of our black folk are experiencing. A very having a very different experience in our schools. Where some of that difference is tied in with people's racism. With racism. OK, not not as stated formal law or policy or something. We've got to go and get the some committee to investigate. And somebody to vote that let's change this policy. But in terms of some material experiences, where black people are overrepresented, where they are underrepresented AP honors courses. The perception of who can be who ought to be in an AP honors course that somehow out of out of that subjective perspective, black people are just not even expected there. I mean, it was like some really powerful things the young people were relating that, yes, they see a disparity. Now, what that could mean to a to a reparative justice policy report, you know, and to future action of the town of Amherst or the school committees or the school teachers or the school administrators. Yeah, talk to me. We didn't get into all of that. We didn't delve into that. But just from listening to what they had to say, I'm not trying to say, oh, they are all ready to march with us for reparations or walk with us for reparations. But I think they are intrigued. They want to know more. And but most of all, they just want it. They just shared objectively from their heart and from their minds, you know, that, yes, there's a differential kind of experience that are. Yeah, something ought to happen. Something ought to be something ought to be addressed. Something ought to be paid. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Shabazz. I see Alexis's hand and then Dr. Rhodes after Alexis. Well, Dr. Shabazz, literally you just said what I was like. I was I was wondering how, like if there were any sort of like minutes or any sort of like how we would be able to incorporate those things because the open ended answers that I read weren't as specific as I would assume the listening sessions moments are or or contributions were. And so I guess I'm I'm definitely like hoping that the folks who are in Poku do indeed, you know, fill out the survey. And like, yeah, but you said it already is like, like, how can we, you know, turn those into action and recommendation and whatnot based off of material evidence? So, yes, thank you. Thank you, though. That's very helpful. Thank you. And Alexis, just a quick follow up there. So I'm not sure if I made this clear. So, Matia, who's helping us with our report, she was there and she did take notes and she'll be preparing those to to offer to the assembly so that for folks who weren't and for folks who were that there's a summary of what was discussed. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much. And I guess my follow up question was about the conversation with and please correct me. So was it a conversation between the bid and the Chamber of Commerce or was those two different conversations or was it just with the Chamber of Commerce or how did that work again? That meeting was just myself and the chair of both of those organizations. So the executive director of both of those organizations. So it was the three of us in one meeting. OK, and that's also going to be that also had minutes. It well, I could make minutes. Absolutely, I can make minutes. That was essentially like a sort of introductory conversation that we had talked about as an assembly, me reaching out to them. And so the approach that I suggested earlier was to sort of open it up now in order to allow for some way to engage. It's possible that if the assembly wanted to try to put a call out through those organizations to their membership, I think the Chamber is a membership group. Actually, Dr. Rhodes would be able to help us with this, whereas the bid is not a membership group. But if you have any suggestions about how else we might approach engaging with those two organizations, I'm all ears. So the bid is a membership organization that includes all the business owners and downtown Amherst, mainly those who own physical physical buildings. OK, so like landlords. Yes. OK. And then the Chamber is all of the business community. Who are a membership. Yeah. Yeah. So and the bid does not have any sort of equity task force or other. They don't have any committees, actually, that I'm aware of. So I'm not sure. And again, if we look at our charge, we might want to, you know, Alexis, I know that you're made maybe out of we might not be able to reach you in the next few days. But I'm just wondering if we want to look at the charge again and see if another approach is called for or in addition to this approach, if we might want another approach to be added. So yeah, I'm going to go to you, Alexis, and then Dr. Rhodes, I'll come back to you. Well, I guess I'm so I was curious. I looked on their websites and I see that Mr. Backelman is also on the bid. So I guess I'm wondering how that how that ties in with us being that I don't know, I don't know. I don't know if I'm thinking this, but I guess I'm wondering how that if that can be used in some way. I don't know if I'm understanding your question. I believe that. All on the bid is like an ex-officio member. I don't know what that means. Not official. Like represented, represented, right? So what does he represent then? Exactly. He's the town manager. Most of the town that they're talking about is downtown Amherst. There is a vested interest of the town being involved in the business activities of this town. So, yes. Well, right. So I guess what I'm wondering then is like, if, if, if we are members of a committee that was appointed by him, I don't know, I the brain isn't braining, but I am. This is a good this is a good question in terms of, you know, because it's Paul Bockelman who wrote our charge. You dig? I mean, it's it's Paul Bockelman that wrote the very language that AHA. I mean, he's a part of it, whomever else he worked with on the council. But he's a part of that. And he screened screened all of us to be on this body. So I think it's a very, very poignant question that you raise. And I think what what Michelle has said is right on point. Let's let's revisit with with perhaps with Paul and the council that, you know, relative to our report, these groups are mentioned. What specifically if, you know, is there any guidance you may wish to offer in terms of how we are particularly trying to engage them? What has really been in my mind and even with the creation of the D.E.I. office that comes up after, you know, we were already in motion, but and our charge was already set. But it's really, you know, these are aspects of our town that purportedly are trying to do something to end structural racism in concert with the resolution that the town passed and adopted. They're also charged. So really, I took the meaning that HRA before its final report may want to visit or may want to encompass or think about what these other entities of the town that are specifically charged with if not doing something in the relation to reparative justice, they are at least charged in some level to to be to make the town anti-racist, to make the town more equitable, to make the town. So how does that fit in with any work or recommendations we're making? That's how I took it. But, you know, but now that we're getting close to the end of the line, I think it's a valid question to ask them for guidance. Is there anything more particular you think we ought to listen to or know about what D.E.I., what Cress, what chamber or bid or any other entities of the police department? Are they is are there specific plans of foot that we ought to look at or or, you know, see if it has what meaning it may have to our recommendations so that it's if nothing else is we don't just say things that are already superfluous. You know, we're recommending this. Well, it's already going on over here in Cress or it's already going, you know, the bids already trying to address it this way. You know, I think one of the things that came out of the meeting, and I don't think Eric would fear me to say it, you know, is that efforts are now particularly activated around some of the things we heard from BB triple A members. OK, so again, we don't want to be superfluous. And Councillor Miller has been right on top of it, trying to say, hey, let's have HRA to think about where we go forward in some of this. You know, and then where individual members may be going forward with some of this that, you know, things are being triggered, actions are being triggered now. And even before HRA, you know, things have been triggered. So do we want to at least listen to some of these departments or or received by email, they don't have to be in person meetings all the time. But if they just want to send in, I've been asking Pamela Nolan Young privately, I've since, you know, she came on board that, hey, I think HRA maybe ought to have a special time when you might want to report to or talk to us and tell us kind of how you're seeing certain things evolving. I mean, the person hasn't been in the job 12 months, but she is trying to articulate a vision around equity that is maybe inclusive of or have connection to what we may want to recommend, even if it's only to endorse certain actions that we're hearing are going on, or it may be to critique and say that from what we're hearing, more is needed. But whatever it is, I think it's I think it's right on the mark, what you're raising, Alexa, I think it's right on the mark, what Councilor Miller has been, you know, raising and is really trying to do so that our work again is on point. It's not going to be superfluous and that it it amplifies the good things that are maybe related to it. And then it calls attention to other things that are not in place already. Dr. Rhodes, before I go to you, I just could you give me a moment just to share? I wanted to share for full transparency's sake that it was Matthew Andrews and I who wrote the charge and the charge was approved by the council after it went through a review of GOL and we did receive an email actually after the charge was approved from the president, Lynn Grismur, who had received a question from the chamber regarding us, the charge eliciting them in the in the charge itself. And so I'm going to forward that communication to you all just so you have a little bit more of a background about that and just open up a little more so that that's more clear. What they very similarly to what Dr. Shabazz is saying they had written essentially saying that they're eager to work on issues of equity, specifically racial justice in the community and rooting out systemic problems with housing and employment. I'll send this over. But but they also raised that they're a de facto economic development that they're happy to collaborate. But given they had adopted the de facto economic development role for the entire municipality, they're struggling with capacity and wondering sort of what relationship we as a committee were hoping to have with them. And you can see my response when I when I send that as well. I also wanted to point out one other piece. Oh, my goodness. And I think it just left my brain because I'm not now I'm not braining. Alexis, let me go to Dr. Rhodes and then I'll I'll try to remember that. All right, three things. One, in relationship to the bid, I think it would be a great idea if it were possible for us to arrange a listening session with them. And during one of their meetings, I think it would be a really great thing to do. So that's one. And then returning back to Poku. Two things stood out to me. Well, the first thing is I would invite all of you to go over to the high school during dismissal and stand outside and look and just observe. I was blown away by the remarkable diversity of the student bodies they were getting on the bus. The bus isn't coming out of the school. It's extraordinary experience, except they're in witness now. I would invite everyone to do that. The other thing that Poku said, which sort of resonated with me was that most of the staff counselors, teachers, etc. are all white. And and the reason for that is people understand. We'll say, well, why is that? Well, because teachers stay for a long time. When when they came on board, got tenure, they're still there. Before efforts were began to make, began to make some inroads into bringing more BIPOC people on to the teaching staff and counseling staff, etc. The replacement of all those people already there is a very, very slow process. And so those students, our students, the Poku students are witnessing that in a part of that. So they look around and say, well, we're all the black teachers. Well, and and it would have legitimate questions. And the question, the reason for it is teachers have long lives and once they get a tenure, they're there until they retire. And so it's a very slow process. Thank you, Dr. Rhodes. Yeah, I was that was really interesting. I also noted that they talked about how students that had come from countries in which English was the primary or first language replaced into English as a second language classes, like sort of by default. There was a lot of really interesting information. I did remember what I was thinking about. Matia did meet last week with Pamela and Jennifer based on the conversation that we had a couple of weeks ago to gain some understanding and feedback about where they think what they're doing is relevant to the report that we're working on, and she has notes for that as well. And let's see that or let me just make sure I understand you. So you said you think that having a listening session with the bid would be great if it was possible. Can you say more about how you who would be invited to that listening session? Are we talking about landlords? Are we talking about the board? How does the chamber fit into that? And what what would we be listening in relation to? Like, I mean, it could be a joint listening session between the bid and the chamber. Remember, the chamber is an organization, a membership organization of businesses throughout the four town area. And it's a independently private organization. And most of not all businesses belong to them. At least they would like for them all to belong to the chamber. And the bid is something that was instituted. I can't remember how many years ago, but it's a state kind of organizational structure that allows the business owners in downtown to organize themselves and to charge each charge a annual fee for belonging. And they have also additional charges maintaining that downtown you go downtown and see flowers and stuff around. That's part of the bid. They also deal with the streets in some manner. They also, because that's called the business improvement district, district was to the charges to improve that business district to the betterment of the community. So. And they and they had they meet monthly. And and I'm just suggesting that it doesn't have to be one of their means. You know, you could say, ask them to set up. And listening sessions separate from their meeting. But I was just thinking, hey, they get together once a month. That would be an ideal opportunity to do it. OK, so what do others think about that? Probably my thinking may be better informed as I read a little more, if you want to talk a little more, just in terms of that initial relationship of, you know, of how the language came to be in the charge from from you and Matt and then what it what it's meant beyond that. But is there more in mind that you had in mind, Michelle? No, I'm trying to think about I mean, I think you really hit on what our original intention was, which was if there was equity work that they were doing. Because I don't think necessarily that they may ask to, you know, support reparations even, for example. But if they are doing equity work that is relevant to the recommendations that we would be making, then I then I think that's where the tie in is. And so that's where my thinking was passing it, sort of decentralizing it. So it's not just Claudia and that's nothing against Claudia at all, but sort of giving it to the committee who was tasked with equity to learn more about what we're doing and be able to provide some information. Now, what I did learn is there I think they're working on some sort of survey, at least of chamber membership right now, that is going to capture questions around race that have never been asked. They've never asked chamber members up and to this point to identify themselves in terms of race. And they're asking this for the first time and what the experience is. And so that's huge. That's huge, right? So and I don't know what their turnaround is on that. So that's why I had this very initial meeting per our earlier conversations with them. And I could get more information about when they expect results on that. I'm not sure that the timing of that will align. But I do know that setting up a listening session does take some energy and time and in commitment from us. And so I would want to just be really clear about. You know, what the purpose of that. What's that, Dr. Shabazz, very clarifying and very helpful. And so from my vantage point, I wouldn't necessarily been insist upon a listening session. You know, listening was has been really as we move to close out and more about telescoping into the black community and trying to hear more there. And I think if there's any more opportunities, it definitely needs to center the black community. It's not just to hear about equity work in general or it. But you know, equity work specifically that has to do with black folk. Not what the equity work you're doing for for women, white women or LGBTQIA or any other kind of broad based identity, because that's nice to know. And that's I'm glad to amplify and educate. Like you said, I got a radio show platform. We can take and they can reach out to me and and do something. But but right now, for our limited time, I strictly want to listen and kind of hear folks. That's got ideas about the view of the harm in relation to a set of project of recommendations under this ban of reparative justice that we that we can support. So for me, then that can take the form of an email. That can take the form of just a memo or or message updating. Here are the specific things we're planning or discussing or working on or projecting as it relates, is particularly to the black community. And if they even want to be more fine in tune with our discussion with the black community that descend from enslavement in the United States. I mean, you can I mean, that's the discourse here. So I don't need to hear or have a listening session and be told about intersectionality and and the relationships of this and this and this. I'm looking for black folk and what you got to help black folk. OK, because that's what I reckon. That's what our report is dealing with. African heritage, black folk in the the descendants of slavery in the United States, all of that. That part, that's our work. So I'm not interested in all the rest. And, you know, I mean, I'm interested as a as a person that lives here as a resident. But for the limited time we have left in the report we have to make. I think we need to really telescope. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Schwarz. Dr. Rhoads. Up to a degree, I agree with you. Dr. Schwarz, but one of the things I'm mindful of is that we were instructed or at least part of the charge is part of what the council said that we really wanted us to outreach to other communities. And and and what that outreach is and what that engagement is was not clear. But we definitely need to have a part of our report. That we indeed reached out to those other parts of the community. Yeah, and I'm just sharing here just so we can quickly look at this. Just so it says, engage as appropriate community stakeholders, such as the bid chamber, faith communities and other organizations to develop extra municipal reparations efforts that align with and complement the town's municipal reparations plan. So if there is something that the chamber or that the Unitarian Church or that any organization that is sort of under this umbrella is doing that we could include as extra municipal reparation efforts in our report will certainly have that space in the report to address those. And that's directly what I'm going to pose as a question to the equity task force of the chamber. Do you have any specific initiatives that would that are that would be considered extra municipal reparations efforts or that are somehow aligned for residents that identify as black? So being very specific and not sort of getting into the the rest of the matters that are all super important, but not relevant to what we're doing. Are there any other comments or questions right now about? Any of that? This has been a great discussion. OK, and Alexis, I am going to follow up just to make sure we have a line of communication, should you want to be in communication at any point over the next several weeks? Does that work for you? Yes, thank you. And I'll I'll let you know when I'm yeah, it will be the last person you. Well, I mean, I mean, like actually with child. Yes, of course, of course. Yeah, and just actually if we could just take 10 seconds of just like to hold a space for this amazing being that's going to enter our world through Alexis and just to wish Alexis all of the best and her and the family in this in this exciting time. Love you, Alexis. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. All right. So we do have a second period of public comment that we're going to call. And so if you would like to make public comment, I'm not going to read the whole statement because everybody who was here when I read it the first time is still here. And I'm going to start by bringing in. I think we're bringing in. Is Melcore Shabazz Jr. also doctor? No, he has an honorary doctorate, but but come on in. All right, here we go. Went out in King Beckham. And let's see. Or maybe Lauren should go first. All right, let's see. I did try to bring yet. I see Lauren's hand just went up. Let me see how we can. It's like very delayed today for some reason. Almost like not working. It says that Lauren will be rejoining as a panelist. So let's hope that's true. Here we go. She disappeared from attendees. So welcome, Lauren. I think you'll need to turn your volume up. I do hear you. I hope you can hear me. OK, yes. So we have both because there was a delay in the process here. So Melcore, I'm going to put Lauren and then we come to you. OK, please, Lauren. OK, good afternoon. I wanted to make a few points with all of the issues that have been going on, one being the vote that the school committee made as as a school committee to put in a new superintendent. I wanted to bring that up because I feel like it is a display of how we continue to, as this town continues to just go with who they know, who they say they trust. And we continue to advocate for those who we know and who we feel that we trust. And the way that the town has delayed certain decisions, specifically with the Joint Committee meeting with the Town Council and the CSSJC, when the town manager said that he cannot give individuals that only he can't give money to individuals, but they would have to seek legal representation. I feel that this process of discussions of reparations has just kind of led to to that, that we have to seek a legal premature legal way to for a municipality to give where they feel like there has been harm or they have done harm or they're culpable in a in a harmful situation. And that should not be the case. I feel like the groups or the listening sessions that and the information that has been gathered from these listening sessions, listening sessions from the Black community and the BIPOC community. Of course, there is equity in a way that you can give back to people who have, you know, experienced harm and hurt in our sharing those experiences and not just stories, but and it's not necessarily subjective, but it's actually, you know, if there's a pattern, if there's people who continuously after generations and generations have shared the same information and there's nothing that has been done about it, there should be there should be some compensation before someone has to say, I need to the lawyer, I need to seek legal representation. If we are doing this equity work in in full faith and we really care about the young people who have, you know, come forward in the listening group that you said that you went to the Poco listening group. They should, the town, the this assembly should say, be we want to do something for those those students, it could be a larger effort to like do a trip. It doesn't necessarily have to just stop with the small group that you met with. But I don't see where the town has put any money toward a future, a future in really bridging what we have been dealing with. And I've only lived here for about six years. And I've seen an experience a lot through my kids and what they have gone through in school, and I grew up in Boston. I went to school in Brookline. I have never experienced, you know, a racial tension and stress until I came to Amherst. And I think the town really needs to to recognize that this is an issue that they cannot continue to gloss over or go around. If if if we know that there is systemic racism and systemic harm being done in this town, we should see some after even after covid. After three years, we should see some some implementation of some kind of project or process or something. And it does come down to funds. It does come down to money. And I've heard other people in town on give responses in public comment about what the town what where has the town put its offer funds? What where where have they used that? And I I it always comes back to. It stopped short of we can't we can't put put money toward this because maybe there's a whole plan or maybe we need to see legal council or something like that. And I just don't think that's right. I think at this point there should be some definite plans and some definite ways that the town says we we see you and we care about the experiences and the things that you have gone through as as BIPOC youth as BIPOC marginalized community members and as residents who have lived here for for longer than me and those who presently live here. They should it should not have to be prolonged to to to figure out some some legal way to to give reparations. There's opera money, there's opera funds. And I I would like to ask the chair, Michelle Miller, to ask if you go to the town town manager to ask specifically how opera funds can be used to to help students help you to to prepare for their future, to to to buffer the things that they have they have dealt with as far as racism and racial injustice in in their education. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you so much. And so, Milcar, you are next. Hi, Michelle. So yesterday I attended the BV triple A meeting. And I didn't really speak at all there. I mostly just listened. But the thing I wanted to bring up is that it seemed at a couple of moments when they were talking about how reparations could affect black businesses and Amherst, we almost started to talk about a vision of the future of Amherst and, you know, whether black people and black businesses will be included. And it just seems to me that I would like for us to describe that more and envision that more, you know, what it means for for us to be a part of the town, you know, what we enjoy about it, but also the changes we want to see, you know, for me personally, my experiences with the black businesses of Amherst is that this this creates a cultural literacy in, you know, learning about them and learning from them. And this is something that you need to be a a city that can bear a future in the in the coming time. You know, the the Internet is allowing us to connect with each other internationally and, you know, you need to be prepared to meet people halfway that you've never even met before. And the best way to do that is to communicate with people outside of your culture. And I find that black businesses deal with all sorts of people and they can help you learn about other other cultures and become more of a global citizen, like Amherst is already full of people from all across the planet. So I think I would just like to hear from the black businesses. But I also would like to hear from white people, too, you know, what type of town that they think that they'll have if they continue to isolate and push, you know, create circumstances that are not conducive to having businesses run by people of color. I just I would like to know from them what type of city they'll have for for much longer or going on. You know, what what what what type of place do we think we're going to have here in Amherst? Yeah. OK. Thank you, Amilcar. Thank you so much. And thank you for attending that listening session, as well as the Poku listening session. It's been really just wonderful to have your presence and your and your input. So thank you. OK, so I'm just I see that Jennifer has not been able to return to talk about some of the upcoming community events. I was hoping that she'd be able to share a bit more about that. I am going to be in touch with Councillor Lopes, who I know is working on at least one part of the Juneteenth to see if she is able to meet with us and talk to us about how we might support or collaborate in the portion that I know she is organizing. And I'm also going to be sending that doodle pullout about a retreat. So please do keep your eye out for that and if possible, respond as quickly as you can just so that we have the time with Monday's holiday. It's going to be a little there's a little more of a delay in terms of what we need to do to get things posted. So are there any other are there any assembly remarks? I do want to note that her roads had to leave the meeting just a couple minutes ago. Are there any other assembly remarks or comments right now? And just checking to make sure. OK, no more public comment. OK. All right. Well, this was a really another just really great meeting. Just checking in with Miss Bridges and Alexis since your cameras are off, just making sure you don't have any additional comments before we close the meeting. No, I'm fine. OK, thank you, Miss Bridges and Alexis. No, ma'am. Thank you. OK, and Dr. Shabazz, I saw your hand just briefly went up. Quick apologies to folks. I sometimes just want to type a note. And when I'm in Zoom, even in teaching, I'll sometimes just type little notes in the chat forgetting that that does go out to people. And so it could constitute a kind of conversation that the public that's going on in a public meeting that's not not part of the public meeting. So I just wanted to apologize and and, you know, just that's just a little practice I sometimes lapse into. But anyway, yes, very good meeting. Thank you. Yeah, and just to say what Dr. Shabazz did put in there is actually really important. It's OK to share because talking about that special legislation that we had discussed way early on is part of will be part of our retreat discussion because the town council will want to hear from us whether we think pursuing that or not would it would be needed based on the recommendations that we'll be making so that will that will be an upcoming conversation for us. All right. Well, again, best wishes, Alexis, and looking forward to seeing you all soon and have a great week. And I'm closing out at three thirty nine adjourning the meeting. Bye bye.