 As you know, we've been very closely tracking the travels of President Obama. He had a month of symmetry last month, and our speaker today was with him in all those very tough places to be, Khan, France, Honolulu, Hawaii, and Bali, Indonesia. But I suspect that you didn't get much of a chance to really enjoy the beach in any of those places. But we have to really celebrate this time because obviously the United States is refocusing on Southeast Asia. A lot of that effort centers on the largest country and the largest economy in Southeast Asia. That's Indonesia. And we couldn't do what we're trying to do by more deeply engaging the region without a very good, solid foundation in our relationship with Indonesia. This morning's speaker is the architect of a lot of that effort. Ambassador Dino Dijal is a good friend. He is, for those of you who follow him on Twitter, you know that he very rarely sleeps. He also takes time somehow to train for a marathon. He just finished the New York marathon for those of you that didn't know. I noticed on Twitter that there's a group of Indonesians who ran that marathon from pretty impressive runners. So I wanted to thank Dino for breaking training and joining us here this morning. He's just been back from this November of Summatory. His perspectives and Indonesia's perspectives are, as I said, fundamentally important to where we take these, the follow-up from these meetings. So I'm not surprised that we've packed the house this morning. For those of you who are coming in late, Henrietta, please go ahead and fill in the front seats here. As Dino called them, the scary seats, you know. But I'd like you to join me in welcoming a good friend and our speaker for the Banyan Tree Leadership Forum today, Ambassador from Indonesia, Dino Dijal. Thank you, Ernie, and thank you CSIS for organizing this brief. And you mentioned about the marathon. Actually, that must be one of the highlights of my stay in the U.S. And I think it was a wake-up call to me as well, because I didn't really train for the marathon. I just believed that, hey, just get off the plane and just put on your shoes and run. That's how naively I approached the marathon event. But apparently, every half hour, my legs creamed to my brain. Are you kidding me? And I ran for seven hours. Can you believe it? And the only thing that sustained me was the fact that my son, five-year-old Kiana, was waiting at the finish line. And so there's no way for me not to finish it. I had to finish it. But he had to wait seven hours for me. Good. I also need to apologize about the title. I think we had a very sexy Hollywood title for today, which is the insider's view of what happened in Bali and so on. I think that's Ernie's skill in coming up with good titles. But I just want to make sure that WikiLeaks is not offended that, you know, I'm not, I don't have any juicy stuff to spill to you. But what I do want to do is to give you a better update and brief about what's happening, what happened in Bali. But one anecdote I want to share with you was I finally got a bit more appreciation for the security forces that protected Obama. There was a moment in the morning when I'm supposed to attend the signing of a Boeing lion deal, $22 billion deal. It was an event that I had looked forward to. So I went to the room and the security guy, despite the fact that I told him I was the ambassador, really, what do you call it, flash this and that and ask me who are you, blah, blah, blah, you know. Gave me a hard time but I passed and then I looked back and everybody went through the same motion. So I said, okay, fine, but I went in there and then not long after President Obama came and greeted us and we were in the holding room together. And then after a while, an aide came and said, okay, we are ready for the signing now. So we moved from the holding room and we proceeded to the signing room. But the door was locked. So one guy tried to open, another security guy tried to open and even President Obama himself tried to open the locker, you know, like this, you know. And that's when I realized, okay, the security is good, you know, they were so strict, they even kept President Obama out of his own signing. That's a true story, by the way. But I think President Obama also had a memorable visit. The one thing that struck me was when he got off the plane from the airport to the hotel, it was about 30 minute ride. And along the road, left and right, people were just lining up to greet him. They were waiting, they had been waiting for hours and they were waving at him and so on and so on. There was strong affection that was showed to President Obama. I'm sure he felt that because I think we had many leaders who came to Bali, about 18, 20 leaders who came. But that one special affection where people lined up by the thousands on the street were only displayed during President Obama's arrival in Bali. I think it's something that even our politicians were envious to see. Let me give you a little bit about the background before I give you the substance of what happened in Bali. We had a good buildup to the ASEAN and ASEAN plus one, ASEAN plus three and East Asia Summit meeting. There was a lot of anticipation. Some degree of exhaustion because a lot of the leaders had taken part in the G20 and also at APEC. And this is meetings, three big meetings that took place in three continents covering three time zones. And within a space of two, three weeks. So it's very hectic diplomatic agenda squeeze into the month of November. And this was the last, the East Asia Summit was the last big meetings that we all had attend for the year of 2011. Of course, we're all excited that there are new members. America was taking place finally and Russia also. But because Russia was represented at the foreign minister level, there's much more spotlight on President Obama at the meeting. There was a feeling that due to the participation of America and Russia, regional architecture was getting stronger. And East Asia Summit was more relevant in addressing regional and global issues. There was some news about the America's enhanced military or marine presence in Darwin at the time. It was announced by President Obama in Australia. Media made much play about it. And they tried to stoke some kind of conflict or confrontation or new tension going back to Cold War rivalry in the region. But to be honest, none of the leaders were buying that. We knew in Indonesia that this was going to happen. And we were not worried about it because Australia was a strategic partner for Indonesia. And America also was a strategic partner. So we were not worried. And what was depicted by the media was not accurate. Around the meeting, we also had themes of Pacific Century come in out of the United States. Secretary Hillary Clinton wrote about the Pacific Century in foreign policy. My president read it himself. He liked the article. And in Hawaii, Secretary Clinton delivered also that same strong speech about the Pacific Century and that the 21st century would be America's Pacific Century, that America would now move the strategic pivot from the Middle East to the Asia Pacific. And of course, this is something also that was said by President Obama during the APEC CO summit. And in fact, my president, when he gave a speech at the APEC CO summit, he also spoke about what he called not the Pacific Century, but the Asia Pacific Century. This is the first time my president used that term. And I think he wanted to send a signal that the 21st century still belongs to Asia, including China and America, Asia Pacific. The only slight difference I would say is that if in the Pacific Century, the geopolitical arena is the Pacific Ocean, in the Asia Pacific Century, the Indonesian version, we count the Pacific Ocean as well as the Indian Ocean, which we think will be the strategic ocean of the future. But that also has the effect of adding more grand strategic vision to the events in Bali. In the region itself, we saw, we were all concerned about what happened in Thailand with the floods. We were very grateful that Prime Minister Ying Lak came to Bali, although she did miss the APEC summit. And we also were encouraged by the positive, positive developments in Myanmar. We were a bit concerned about heightened tension in the South China Sea, but we expected this to be discussed in one of the forums in Bali. And on top of that, there's a lot of feel-good nationalist pride in Indonesia and run up to the East Asia Summit. We were hosting the Sea Games, the Southeast Asia Games. Indonesia won, I think, the most gold medals, but we lost the most important one, which is the football match against Malaysia, which is why I'm not speaking to our Malaysian colleague who is standing in the middle. And our economy is growing at 6.5% Indonesian economy this year. The ASEAN economies altogether are growing on average of 7.4%, which is significantly higher than the global growth average of 5%. And the American trade with the region with ASEAN is up 27% in 2010 to 180 billion. And the American FDI to the region is up 100%. So in contrast to the G20, which was held in Cannes, and as Ernie said, I was there as well, and I could feel the mood. There was a mood of declining confidence, of concern, a crisis of confidence. The meeting in Bali, in contrast, was a meeting of high expectations, a lot of confidence, a lot of expectations and attentions, and talks about new energy and new movements in Asia, not just diplomatically, but also strategically and economically. And as if all this was not enough, I had to continually monitor a certain Twitter by a very important American who was in Bali at the time, and the name was Paris Hilton. I don't know who this person is, but Ernie Bauer said that she was very important American, and her views are very important to millions of American. And it's a good thing throughout the whole tweet in Bali, she tweeted like five, 10 times a day. She said all nice things. And by the time she left, I felt good, that good promotion for Indonesia. So what happens in Bali? What is the result? For us, Indonesia as the chairman of ASEAN, and the organizer of East Asia Summit, and all the other meetings, we wanted to make sure that Bali was not just another event. ASEAN has now two events a year, two summits a year. So we don't want this to be just another event. We want this to be a milestone event in terms of laying down foundations, putting down tractions for the ASEAN community building and shaping future directions. We don't want this to be just a meeting that produced documents, although of course they are bound to be decorations being made. But we want this to have substance and action. Indonesia has always believed that the term ASEAN centrality, or the term ASEAN as driving force, is not something that we take for granted, because we say often enough, you tend to take that for granted, but we want this to be something that is not empty terms, but has real applications, ASEAN centrality and ASEAN as the driving force of regional architecture. So the major result, the first one that I wanna mention is what is called the Bali Concorde III, the Bali Concorde III. And this highlights the next stage that we envisage after the ASEAN community reaches its mileage in 2015. So 2015 is only four years away, and it's time for us to start thinking now, what does ASEAN wanna do after the ASEAN community has been reached in 2015? So the answer is Bali Concorde III, which means that we don't think about ASEAN as a regional community, but we think of ASEAN as part of the global community. Now this means ASEAN has a global role, ASEAN has influence on global issues, and ASEAN has common platform, which must be achieved through more coordinated, cohesive and coherent ASEAN position. Now this is something that was a bit difficult to achieve in the past, on issues like climate change, for example, there's hardly an ASEAN position in contrast to maybe the EU has an EU position on this. So this is something that we are going to change and adjust having an ASEAN common platform on regional issues. And we know that in order to do this, we're gonna have to improve the way ASEAN make decisions, improve the way ASEAN coordinates diplomatically, and also make diplomatic adjustments so to make sure that we do have an ASEAN common position. And one of the things that we did in Bali was enter into an agreement with the UN secretary general called a comprehensive partnership between ASEAN and the UN. And the goal is really to make sure that ASEAN has a more coordinated and coherent voice at the global stage, not just on the regional stage. The second thing is the East Asia Summit principles. The, what is it, the precise title of it, there's a document out there that's being produced for you, but it's a mutual principles of norms governing relations between the East Asia Summit. Surprisingly, this is something that the media missed out on. I don't know exactly why they were focused a lot on South China Sea and Myanmar and all the other stuff. But for us, this is the key product of the East Asia Summit. That is for all the members of East Asia Summit to agree to a common norms and principle. Now let me tell you why this is important. Thus far, the most important document of binding norms is what we call the 3D of amity and cooperation. Now all the East Asia Summit members have signed on to this, all 18 have signed on to this. But this is more seen as an ASEAN norms with major powers, U.S., Russia, China, India and others agreeing to it. Now we want to establish something that not just binds ASEAN, but also the major powers. And this is what we produce indeed in Bali. And the norms are quite extensive. It covers principles of non-use of form. Let me see where I have it. It covers principles of non-use of forms. Zelda, where is the document? Sorry, okay. Yeah, so it's a document that contains principles such as the non-use of force, a peaceful settlement of disputes, the principle of democracy of human rights, promotion of good neighborliness, respect for international law, respect for diversity of ethnic and religious and cultural traditions, enhancement of regional resilience and so on and so on, respect for fundamental freedoms, promotion and protection of human rights and social justice and so on. Now, I say these things and I know what you're thinking. Okay, so what, these are nice words. We hear it all the time. But if you think about it, during the Cold War imagine having norms like this between the United States, the Soviet Union and China. You could not have something like this done in those days, right? So to have something like this done and in an environment where you still have a lot of regional hotspots, the North, the Korean Peninsula, the South China Sea and other things is quite remarkable. In fact, when we came up with the idea of having a morally binding norms, morally binding, not legally binding but morally binding norms, there's someone who said, okay, it's not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. They're not ready for it. But surprisingly, we tried it, we proposed it. We made some adjustments. Everybody revised some terms here and another and it happened and now we have this East Asia norms of conduct. Of course, there's no guarantee that all the norms will be respected. We are quite pragmatic about this. But at least we can hold East Asia Summit members when they are not accountable to these principles and besides in the future, there's gonna be a lot more issues that will come up where we will need to hold them accountable to these norms. Now, the third product that happened was the nuclear weapon free zone. The Southeast Asia nuclear weapon free zones. This is something that was stuck for so many years because there was just little interest on the part of the P5 to sign on to the protocol. But the impetus that was given by President Obama's commitment to nuclear disarmament and other factors made us push this one more time. And guess what? It happened. By the time we met in Bali, all the P5 members have agreed to, in principle, signing the protocol of Southeast Asia nuclear weapon free zone. There was some discussion with China who were not comfortable with one of the clauses regarding to the territory aspect of the protocol. But this was sorted out and we expect that in the near future, it's just a matter of procedure, not principle, that there will be a signing of the protocol by the P5 to this important document for us. And what this means for us is that 600 million people in Southeast Asia are now or would now be free and guaranteed to be free from the threat of nuclear weapons. Maritime issue is also discussed in Bali. In fact, it's one of the issues that where there's a lot of back and forth on this issue. And this is an issue where Indonesia felt, look, you know, ASEAN has been going too slow on this. The last declaration I was done on South China Sea was a long time ago, it was about 10 years ago. And there was hardly any movement since then. And if ASEAN wants to prove it's relevant, it has to do something. So we push hard for this. We said we can't wait too long or another year or another two years. We got to finalize the guidelines and it was finalized in July in ASEAN. And now the trick is how to move on two things. First, how to move on the projects that were identified in the guidelines on the South China Sea, the ASEAN China guidelines in South China Sea. Secondly, while they're doing that in parallel, how do we identify the elements in the Code of Conduct as part of the implementation of the declaration on the guidelines of conduct in the South China Sea? So the good news is that now China seems to be willing to respond, to sit down to identify the elements of the Code of Conduct. ASEAN among us have begun to identify the elements. We have not brought it out to the attention of China, but China has signal to us that they're willing to sit down to discuss the next stage, which is identifying the elements of the Code of Conduct. But what our chairmanship has revealed is that what you need to do is really a little push. Sometimes if you let matters just lay for a while, then you don't get any progression, right? But my president pushed really hard last July to make sure that declaration on the guidelines are finalized and now we move on to the next stage, which is identifying the elements of the Code of Conduct. Myanmar was another hot issue. The media gave a lot of spotlight on this issue. During the meeting of ASEAN leaders, we agreed almost unanimously that we were encouraged by the elections and political development that took part in Myanmar in recent times, and the decision was reached to agree to Myanmar's chairmanship of ASEAN by 2014, but in language that would encourage Myanmar to keep up the momentum and indeed increase the momentum of political openness and democratization that is already underway. But even here, I want to highlight that here too ASEAN is changing because before we reached that decision, Indonesia sent our foreign minister, Foreign Minister Martina Telagawa to Myanmar to assess the progress that had been done in the Myanmar's democratization. In the history of ASEAN, that is not something that is usually done. For a member to assess another member state to see if they could now assume the chairmanship. So there's a mindset shift within ASEAN that is reflected in how we address the issue of Myanmar's chairmanship in 2014. Another issue that we discussed in Indonesia pushed very hard for is East Timor, or Timor-Leste's membership in ASEAN. There's a lot of back and forth. The views has not always been unanimous on this, but Indonesia believed that Timor-Leste is part of Southeast Asia. All you need to do is look at the map and it is very good for the regional architecture for Southeast Asia and for ASEAN. If Timor-Leste joins ASEAN sooner rather than later. So we hope that things are moving in that direction but now the ASEAN Council of Minister are studying the modalities by which this can be transpired, getting Timor-Leste to be part of ASEAN. Thai Cambodia is another issue. You know this is an issue that is relevant for ASEAN because we need to show that when there is conflict within ASEAN, ASEAN can be relevant rather than bring this issue to the United Nations Security Council and the others. I can tell you from the proceedings that there's much better both in terms of body language and diplomatic relationship between the Thai and Prime Minister and the Cambodian leader on this issue. They, both of them during the ASEAN Summit, referred openly to the Thai Cambodia border issue and they said that things are more manageable and much better now and they do expect that Indonesia would continue to play a role even after Cambodia assumes the chairmanship of ASEAN. The East Asia Summit also discussed the five issues, the issues that had been discussed all the time in East Asia Summit which is finance, education, energy, natural disasters and avian flu. These are big issues and we advance them in Asia Summit but we also know that these issues are not exhaustive. We don't want the East Asia Summit only to be stuck on these five issues. We need to continually expand these issues because after all, East Asia Summit from the start has always been about discussing political, security and strategic issues so we want to make sure that we are flexible in addressing these issues of the region. We had a good US ASEAN Summit. This is the third of its kind and what is different this time is that they came up with a plan of action because in the first two summits, it's more declaration of I love you, you love me. But now there's a beefy substantive plan of action and I can tell you that US ASEAN partnership is really easy, there's no hard issues that divide us. There's a lot of goodwill between the two sides to promote cooperation so I'm very pleased to see how far it's gone and we look forward to implementing the plan of action between ASEAN and the United States and I must say that I commend the US participation in Bali. I think America has shown a very proactive proactive and positive engagement with the region, not just with Southeast Asia but with Asia. You know as well as I do that in recent years there's some concerns that America was just too stuck in Afghanistan and Iraq at the expense of its proper attention to the Asia Pacific region but both President Barack Obama and Secretary Clinton and also Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta when he came to the region, he said that we're back. President Obama mentioned the word re-engagement in Asia Pacific and we noticed that President Obama went to, forced to Australia and there's not a place that he went to and then Secretary Clinton went to all the other American allies and partners and they all delivered the same message that America wants to be engaged in the region and become an active participant and all the things that has been done, the participation in EAS which is in contrast to the shy approach of America in 2005 towards the EAS, America signing on to the Treaty of Amityan Cooperation, the US ASEAN Summit which is an annual thing now, US policy shift on Myanmar, the appointment of US Ambassador David Cardin, a good friend of President Obama to ASEAN and all these things signify that America really wants to be an active participant in defining regional architecture of the region. So by way of conclusion, let me say a couple of things. First, throughout all the documents in Bali, you notice a lot of reference to maritime issues, maritime security, maritime partnership, maritime cooperation and one of the things that America push hard on. This is one of the key issues for them in the East Asia Summit but it has a caveat on you too. You haven't ratified the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Now this means that it has become a matter of strategic necessity, I repeat, strategic necessity for United States to ratify UN Convention on the Law of the Sea because the more you're gonna push hard for it in East Asia Summit, in US ASEAN Summit, in APEC and all the other forms, the more the questions are gonna come back to you and ask when are you going to ratify. And when you ratify, your diplomatic and political capital in advancing these issues, in addressing South China Sea issues and all the other issues will significantly rise as well. So my advice to you is ratify soon. Everyone else has and it's time for America to ratify. Secondly, for ASEAN, we're gonna have to live with this spaghetti ball. We have this APEC, ARF, ASEAN plus one, ASEAN plus three, East Asia Summit. There are some calls to rationalize and in fact, in time, there will be a need to rationalize it because all these leaders, they talk about things that overlap between one meeting to the next with mostly the same set of leaders as well. But for the time being, it's important to give each of these institutions room to breathe. And I think in time, we will feel the need for them to be rationalized. But in time, I think it's good for us to let each of these institutions to grow. But for ASEAN, it is very important for us to learn how to manage this regional architecture which has a different weight than ASEAN. Now what do I mean by, dealing with ASEAN, we used to, we've been dealing with it since 1967 and 1976 and so on when ASEAN and later on when ASEAN become the ASEAN 10. But dealing with East Asia Summit where you have US and China and India, it's completely different diplomatic weight. And it's becoming an art on how you manage the interest, the enormous weight that goes with it between the two giants. We felt it a lot and the trick is how ASEAN can manage and accommodate them fairly, but also keep in mind that it has to keep ASEAN's interest at heart and as a priority. And it is also important for ASEAN and also for all our friends to remember that with the weight of America and China, there is a host of other interests for us to accommodate as well. So it's not just US and China, but also the rest of the 16 member states that we must accommodate and manage in terms of the process in managing the regional architecture. I think the principle term that we underline in regional architecture is equality. So no matter how big or small, we'd like everybody to have a voice and a role in managing the regional architecture. But for Cambodia, who will be the next chairman of ASEAN, Cambodia will also feel what Indonesia felt, how to manage these two giants and all the competing interests in a fair and constructive and positive way. We have a term in Indonesia is called competing for peace. What this means is that this is in contrast for competing for power influence, which means if you're competing for peace, it's a win-win thing. If America and China compete for who gets the most trade and who gets to give the most investments and absorb the most students, it's so much better for all of us. Whoever wins, everybody wins. So that's the term competing for peace. And my president has underlined the need for us to change the new geopolitics and the new geopolitics in the Asia Pacific region, which means, again, there will always be an element of rivalry, but there's room for much greater room for partnerships and cooperation and for win-win solution. So hopefully East Asia Summit on this and all these other regional architectures will help advance a better mode for competing for peace among the major powers and regional powers and also for better geopolitics and geoeconomics. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Dino. And thank you for agreeing to take some questions. The rules on questions are really easy. Just raise your hand. I'll identify you and please mention your name and your affiliation. I'm gonna start, though, take the prerogative of the chair and ask. Indonesia had quite a year and very successful, I think, by all accounts as the chairman of ASEAN and putting together these summits. Everyone's very much aware that we're coming into chairmanship by some of ASEAN's smaller and newer members. Do you have any advice for Cambodia immediately and then the others that will be chairing ASEAN? What are the things they need to think about and get prepared for as they take on the mantle of the chairmanship? Yeah. Well, preparation is very important, Ernie. Those who took part in the Bali meeting saw how my president and foreign minister really became hands-on manager of Indonesia's foreign policy. He was not just a guy who chaired meetings. He actually led and he studied all the details and he kept telling everybody, let's think outside the box, let's not be married to the past and whatever we can do differently, let's do it differently. And this is why when we engage on the Thai Cambodia border disputes, which was very unusual for ASEAN standard, we managed to do so. And even when we came up with the idea of sending observers, even though that hasn't happened and that was accepted by both sides, that's also something that was new and reflected thinking outside the box. So I think our advice to Cambodia is have good preparations, make sure you have good diplomatic apparatus to handle all the ASEAN meetings because we're talking about hundreds of meetings on a monthly basis. And ASEAN has this problem, everybody knows about this. Sometimes we come up with too many declarations and not enough implementation. And in the last year, what we did was, okay, we look at blueprints, there were one or two points that is good enough, is there, but how come no one's picking up on it? Like the ASEAN Institute for Peace and Reconciliation, the ASEAN Institute for Natural Disasters. So all you need to do is just pick up, you don't need to do the whole thing, but pick up the key things that you wanna pick up on and make it happen. And that's how you make ASEAN run faster. But ASEAN, we're developing a style of collective leadership. One guy will be at the helm, but the others can always jump in and give advice and help out. ASEAN belongs to everybody. And the principles that we have laid out will go on for years, not just for a month or one year, but it will go on for quite some time. And I think it will benefit all the future chairmen of ASEAN. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. I'm Tom Rekford with the Malaysia America Society and don't worry, I'm not gonna mention that football championship. Too painful to me. As a follow on to Ernie's question, you mentioned that Indonesia would continue to play a positive role in trying to settle the differences between Cambodia and Thailand after 2012, after Cambodia takes on the chairmanship. Is Indonesia planning to continue its very positive and energetic role in many of the other issues after 2012? Okay, well, first on the Thai Cambodia issue, you know, the ICJ has come up with the ruling on this, which necessitates the creation of the demilitarized zone around the disputed area. So if we do send observers, it will have to be adjusted to the rulings that has been made by the ICJ. But yes, of course, we would be very interested to play a constructive role. I think one of the issues that we'll be most interested is South China Sea issue. You know, we've been involved in this issue since 1991, trying to turn potential conflict into potential cooperation. And if you look at the areas that have been proposed to turn into projects of cooperation, such as marine environment, scientific research and so on, these are the things that Indonesia tried to do for 10 years, but somewhat unsuccessfully and only half successful in that. So we have quite a lot of knowledge and institutional memory on what not to do and what to do in terms of realizing this project for cooperation in the South China Sea. But you know, we see hope because if you look at 10, 20 years ago in South China Sea, China did not want to discuss this with anybody, right? And then China said, okay, we discuss it, but only bilaterally, right? And then Ibu Fugeni said, okay, we discuss it, but only with ASEAN, which is where we are now. You know, China and ASEAN and China saying, okay, everybody else move away, only me and ASEAN. And then China said, okay, now maybe we can discuss projects, right? But the point is there has been movements in China's position on the South China Sea in ways that we hope can be turned into more diplomatic agreements for peaceful negotiations and settlement in the South China Sea. So I think I imagine South China Sea would be one of the issues that would be priority interest for Indonesia. Sure. Thank you, Ambassador. My question is about, you mentioned China was concerned about the nuclear free Southeast Asia and then it was sorted out. Do you know what issues they were concerned and how it was sorted out and what impact it will have on the South China Sea issue? You are sorry to say this yourself. I'm Kumar from Amnesty International. Good. Kumar, the issue was on the definition of territory. You know China claims the South China Sea and claims the islands and also the maritime space. And they wanted to be clear on the geographical scope of the territory. And they did not want any clause that would be prejudicial to their territorial claims in the South China Sea. So they came up with a solution that would have a memo that would be indicating that that when they sign on to this protocol, then it does not affect their territorial claims. And that's what's gonna be signed. So principally has been agreed by all the P5, but it's basically on the question of that here. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Ambassador, I'm Alex Feldman from the Southeast Asian Business Council. I wanted to ask there was another important meeting that took place in Bali and asked maybe if you could give us some insights into what happened. And that was the meeting between President Obama and President Yudhoyono. And if you could talk a little bit about US-Indonesian relations in regards to that. Did that take place? Yeah. Yeah, so President Obama had a very good meeting with President Yudhoyono. The one of the things that they unveiled was the Indonesia Going Into the Compact program where Indonesia would receive $600 million for a development purpose. And we also, a big item for the bilateral part is the Lion Air Boeing deal, which is $22 billion. The largest deal ever made by Boeing and the Indonesian private airline is doing this there by 230 planes from Boeing. So we are very much contributing to American jobs as well, right? But, you know, the feeling was the bilateral side is very good, Alex. Very good and solid, expanding. We had a good joint commission meeting, working group meetings, and extensive agenda covering food, energy, environment, climate change, trade investment, and so on. And there was questions about, not questions, the discussions were also more about regional and global environment. And that's a new thing about Indonesia-U.S. relations. We discussed more things now about what to do with the region, what to do with the world, right? Which reflects a maturing relationship, I suppose. But they had very good meeting, good bilateral meeting on the sidelines of Bali. But besides that also, I noticed there was a dinner that was held where all the leaders were watching a show for two hours and they were dressed in batik and had Indonesian food. There was another positive, what do you call it, side impact, which was President Obama sat next to Prime Minister Wenja Bao, right? And on his left was President Yudhoyono. But that two hours, the two were talking the whole time and talking, I think they're talking serious stuff because it offered a rare occasion for President Obama and President Wenja Bao to discuss issues in very informal way, without the advisors and without no-takers, only the interpreters, for two hours and then we thought, I think more meetings like this, this is one of the things that do not show themselves in formal diplomatic documents, but have a lot of impacts in terms of improving the psychology of the relationship between the leaders. I'm Kenton Clymer from the Wilson Center at Northern Illinois University, where you were a few months ago. Yes. I would just wanted if you could expand a bit on your comments about Myanmar. Everyone, I think, is encouraged with what has happened so far and I'd just be interested in your own kind of personal assessment of the future. Do you think there will be more opening up? Do you think the political prisoners will be released and so forth? Yeah, okay. Fair question. I think, look, how you assess the situation in Myanmar depends on what yards that you want. Do you want a big, sudden dramatic improvement or you want incremental one by significant, right? You want something overnight or you want something not overnight and not too long but achievable within our time. I think ASEAN is expecting a significant but also incremental political changes in Myanmar and this is what we see. We are heartened by the growing relationship and hopefully trust, I think trust between President Tain Sen and Ansan Suu Kyi. I think this is something that she has reflected and that is a good sign. If she trusts somebody and she feels comfortable with somebody then it is a good sign. We've been heartened by the release of political prisoners even though we understand there's still about 2,000 political prisoners in Myanmar and we keep encouraging them to release them. There's now a new dialogue and then the NLD now has been allowed to take part in elections and also Ansan Suu Kyi by December next year, although that's also at the provincial level but it's a good stepping stone. For us also, we had a democratic change. We had elections in 1999 but real reforms and real political openness and maturing of democracy took several years, I think four or five years after that actual elections in 1999 to bring us where we are today. So in Myanmar, I think the trick is to encourage them to go as fast as they can to promote reforms and also to not forget there's another side of the coin of the issue which is the relationship with the ethnic groups that are rebelling against the Yangon. I think from Washington, sometimes we are too fixed on the human rights and democracy side but the other side, the other 50% is also very important and they've been trying to hold meetings with them and in constructive ways. So if they get democracy, human rights and the regional ethnic rebellions right, then I think we're gonna see one of the most remarkable transformations in Southeast Asia in Myanmar in the following years. Jerry, did you? Thank you, Mr. Ambassador Jerry Hyman at CSIS. Thank you for that great briefing and for the remarkable achievements of the last year by Indonesia, especially on the EIS norms and principles. I think that's fantastic. I think I'd ask you about the Bali Concord III issues that you mentioned. You talked about common platforms and common positions. What would that mean for the traditional ASEAN position of unanimity in order to have any kind of agreements about almost anything? Could you do that and still have common positions and principles on specific issues as you go forward if you see that robustly? Yeah, well, that's a good question because that is where it's still a bit vague in the sense that we want ASEAN to go faster and make stronger decisions, more coherent positions and we know that the principle consensus is still there but there is something in the ASEAN charter that says that if the leaders cannot achieve consensus, then the chairman can do something to find a way. Now, they stopped short of saying voting, right? They stopped short of saying voting but it's not entirely out of the question but it is a mechanism that has not been spelled that completely on economic issues. There is something that says that if one group does not feel comfortable with one of the tariffs or schemes or economic cooperation schemes, that member can opt out of the consensus and let others go forward. So there are different ways, different mechanisms but nothing concretely spelled out in terms of how ASEAN can move faster. What's there is only the realization and the political will to do so and I think we achieved that. I think what we did in South China Sea when we said, look, 10 years is just way too long to wait with no results whatsoever. Let's get it done now. The moment Indonesia said it and others also we push others and others agreed with us, then decision became faster. So sometimes it's just a matter of casing decisions and pushing hard on it. One example is human rights. When we designed the ASEAN Charter, human rights and democracy was almost not a very minimal part of it but Indonesia, we believe that look, even Africa has a human rights charter and what's ASEAN afraid of? What are we afraid of in the 21st century in promoting democracy and human rights? We push hard and we reverse the tide within ASEAN discussions and now democracy and human rights is very much part of the ASEAN Charter and so again, it's just a matter of pushing sometimes. Good morning Ambassador, Mark Mealy, US Housing and Business Council. When you mentioned earlier the issue, you mentioned the term spaghetti bowl and oftentimes in this town we think of that and we think of sort of FTAs and sort of trade initiatives and obviously we know there's lots of, how should we say, competing potential architectures around the trade evolution for Asia. So I'm curious from your point of view or from Indonesia's point of view how you felt in terms of the EAS context or even some of the ASEAN Summit context, how is ASEAN kind of thinking about again maintaining that principle of ASEAN centrality in whatever evolution of trade, the landscape architecture that's gonna emerge in Asia? Yeah, well thanks. Well, let me mention a little bit about the TPP, right? And there was a significant announcement on TPP in Honolulu, right? And we noticed that TPP is gaining more attention and even when the leaders met in Bali, people were talking about TPP on the sidelines although it wasn't discussed in the meetings but the point is it has added new dynamism. Even Indonesia, we're not saying no to TPP. We're looking at it with, you know, we're just studying it. But we notice I think Canada, Mexico, Japan and Korea have expressed interest in TPP. What is important for us is the WTO actually. For us, the real game is in the WTO and we need to make sure that there is a resolution in the Doha round. But Pascal Lamy has said that 90 something percent of WTO negotiations are done. It just comes down to specific issues between America and China, right? And unfortunately in the current election issue, I think it's a bit too much to hope that that would be resolved in the coming year or so. But for us, it's very important for us to achieve some kind of resolution or advancement in the Doha round. And we do hope that, you know, ASEAN, the ASEAN master plan of connectivity is a big thing for ASEAN now. This is the next big thing in terms of infrastructure, telecommunications, transport and everything. And I forget the figures but it's something like couple hundred or couple thousand billion dollars for the next couple of years which is a lot of opportunities for America and China and everybody, all our friends around the region. So, and I'm glad that at the U.S. ASEAN summit, President Obama has expressed his full support for the ASEAN master plan for connectivity to be part of that great regional project of ours, yeah. Jam and then. Thank you. Thank you, Ambassador, for those remarks. We talk, a lot of coverage was given to China, U.S. and ASEAN. But the other large country, India, never gets mentioned. What's ASEAN's view of India and what do you think, what does ASEAN think India thinks about the East Asian summit? Yeah, well, thanks. We did have ASEAN India summit in Bali and the Prime Minister Manwan Singh came. I'm not, I didn't attend that meeting so I don't wanna say much about something that I'm not very knowledgeable about. But definitely when we see the regional architecture, we see India very much as part of it. As you know, before the East Asia Summit, there were two competing ideas. One is just East Asia and the other one was East Asia Plus. Plus what? Plus Australia, New Zealand and India. Which means that we see the region not just as more narrow but a lot more larger. And we want to achieve a lot more balance and we believe that balance will be achieved with India's participation with Australia and New Zealand and now with China and now with Russia and United States. So India is very much part of our design in terms of maintaining this dynamic equilibrium in the Asia Pacific and especially because in Indonesia's view and perhaps also in ASEAN's view, the Indian Ocean is gonna be the strategic zone of the future. There's gonna be a lot more geopolitical and geoeconomic movements in that area. And unfortunately, in contrast with the Pacific side, the regional architecture in the Indian Ocean is still lacking, it's still very minimal. And I think that is gonna be the next big thing and India's role will be very important in that respect. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Bob Dihon with the National Fisheries Institute. Mr. Ambassador, my question was sort of already asked and answered, just want to encourage your government to give serious consideration to joining the TPP talks because they are picking up steam and that is as a former person in government on trade that they show a lot more promise than the WTO round that we've been working on since the Eisenhower administration, it seems like. Yeah, thank you. Okay, just a quick comment of that. You know when the PPs started, it was only five countries, right? Singapore, Chile, Brunei and something. Now it's become a different thing, you know? With the United States joining, especially. It's really becoming a different game and we notice, right? A TPP with five countries and TPP with nine countries is very different and so take it very well what you say and this is the message that I convey to my government as well that this is a different game now with America being part of it and this being nine countries are supposed to be four or five countries. Well, ladies and gentlemen, please join me in thanking our speaker.