 I'm here with Lauren Van Mullum, or as some of her audience and clients know her by truer words by lauren.com, her website. And so we're going to talk about copywriting today, writing your homepage, your about page, your services page. And Lauren is known as an ethical copywriter. But first, let me say hi to you, Lauren. Thanks for being here. Oh, thank you. I'm super happy to be here. Yeah, so let me read your bio so that people have a background of who you are. And then we'll get into talking about how do we write our homepage, or the principles of ethical copywriting for your homepage about pages. Okay, so Lauren Van Mullum has been writing sales copy for online businesses to since 2008, and has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs and coaches to connect with right fit clients who love their work. Her philosophy is that connection with clarity leads naturally to sales and to enjoyable businesses. She teaches and practices ethical copywriting that's not manipulated and values driven and again the website is truer words by lauren.com I'll of course have the links in the notes below. There's a lot we can talk about Lauren and so let's make the best use of our time. I want to start with just the overall question of what do you consider ethical copywriting versus what we might have seen out there on what copywriting is. So first of all, actually, can you define in your words, what is copywriting. Let's start there. You know, we're not like some people, you know, this page has been copywritten in 2018 or 2021 or whatever. We're not talking about copyright legal legal rights. We're talking about something different so what is copywriting and then secondly, what is ethical copywriting in your opinion. Very good because there are two competing definitions. So traditional copywriting is words written on your website in ads that are intended to drive an action. That is like literally the words are there to do one thing it is to make the other person do what you want them to do ethical copywriting is related. It's a cousin, but it's intense is slightly different. It's not to make anybody do anything. It is really to bring the people who need you together with the service that solves their problems so it's really kind of bringing people together who need to know each other that the people who have the solutions and the people who have the problems versus let's create this wonderful trap to catch the fishes that we want to catch and, you know, make them bite on the bait. I love that. I love that that you're kind of giving these two pictures in our mind like one is kind of more matchmaking right. It's more like. Yeah, just like you said, someone who has a problem should know about a solution that has been made for somebody like them. Why wouldn't that like, that's how the world moves forward that's how people heal and grow and. And then the other way, which is traditional copywriting just like you said it's great, you put out a net or you try to catch the fish and make them bite and, and this is a, you know, sort of like, we are the masterminds, and then the customer or the client is kind of like we're manipulating them to do stuff, which is traditional marketing conventional copywriting is that has that kind of feel has that spirit whereas the ethical copyrighting I love that you're saying no let's let's find something that really aligns. And when something I always say when, when, when we have alignment between our product and what the person in front of us wants. Yes, we don't have to make them do something they want to do it because we have something for them. That's perfect for them. So what is your. Okay. Do you want to say anything else about ethical copywriting or should we jump into examples of homepage about page and things like that. It's always fun to do a little bit of the comparison of this is how it usually works versus this is how you know that the ethical copy difference, but it really comes down to, you know, avoiding manipulative tactics, and actively not trying to cause anxiety or FOMO. And it's really because most things are trying to cause anxiety trying to cause fear of missing out because that's what FOMO means for those who haven't, you know, heard of it FOMO fear of missing out. Yes. Yes, those are usually the triggers that get people to act faster so anytime we can maybe slow down the sale instead of speeding it up. Anytime we can be transparent about our prices or process when we can set up realistic expectations and meet them. All of that is ethical copy. Now, I was going to say, hold on, slow down the sale and so speeding it up. You'll never hear another marketing person say that, you know, right, but let's talk about this a little bit. So, what is the benefit, maybe we'll start there what's what would be the benefit of so called slowing down the sale rather than speeding it up. I want to say it's it's not it's often not a good idea to try to speed up the sale. Yes, yeah, it speeding up the sale. Typically you are you're trying to trip the sort of primal part of the brain that is in charge of fear that is in charge of sort of like fight flight freeze response, and you're trying to trigger that to create the action that you want people to take like if you don't do this now you're going to you're going to lose out and it's like, oh no limited resources I am a human I'm going to die without these resources, and that is the reaction. But the problem when you're doing that is they're not able to process whether this is the right fit service for them. So you end up getting a lot of wrong fit people who have paid you money and are annoyed that they're not getting the outcomes that they thought they were going to get. I love that you I love how you explain these things and do it and do it so concisely because you've described and you know basically the experience that I had in the beginning of my business 12 years ago when I was learning from conventional marketers. And to get people to buy as soon as possible, as many people as possible, and I was, I essentially burned out and kind of like had the spiritual personal breakdown and breakthrough a couple years into my business because, yes, I was being successful in selling but I was not feeling the fulfillment of actually seeing the kind of transformation that I was hoping to see in my business within my clients and and and just like you said, when you sell fast and sell hard, you get people that are not the right fit and ironically it seems like you're being successful in the short term but then it burns you out in the long in the midterm really and then you are not able to actually find the fulfillment that allows you to sustain your business and make it more and more sweet and fulfilling over the years, which is what we all want we don't want to just be in business for you know one or two, three years and then like burn out and then, and then have to go get a job. And we want to be here we want to be serving more deeply more more comprehensively more. Yeah, just anyway, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about so this is why ethical copywriting does bring us the right people. And if we do ethical copywriting well brings us enough of the right people. So, so let's, let's give the audience some real examples and I know you pulled up some examples on your on your screen of people you know or some some of them are your clients or and also your own website to you please show us examples yeah. So, what we're doing when when we're not using those other tactics to try to speed up the sale to try to create anxiety what we're really doing is creating an environment where your perfect fit clients are going to recognize that they are your perfect fit clients and look at you and go like you I want to get to know you better it's that first impression where you need somebody really click with. That's what we're trying to do, and I, I call it connection driven copy is, you know it's making those connections. So, there are certain places on your website where you want to do specific things to create that reaction. So I'm going to share, we're going to look at some home about services and sales pages, I just have, you know, one or two examples each. I'm going to go through it. Yeah, and thank you for. Yeah, go ahead. So on the homepage, the way you start that that connection and get that oh you are the one for me I think maybe probably it's sort of that. Getting them to the questioning maybe you are the one I've been looking for and that's really the home pages job. So the thing that you have to do on the homepage is be very clear. I feel like they don't have too many doubts left. What do you do. Are you doing it for me. And what does it help me do. So that is my formula actually when I start for each header copy. It's what do you do. Who do you do it for. What does it help them do. And if you have those three factors in your homepage, it doesn't even need to be all of that in the header it's kind of hard to pack it all in. So you've got most of it, you've got enough clarity for people to go Oh, that is the thing I've been looking for. Yeah. So with Katie, she has a wonderful combination of health coach and garden coach, and she will make beautiful edible gardens for you. And then if you if you want to learn more about how to use these things that you're growing to improve your health and quality of life she's there for that too. She has beautiful gardens for people who just want sort of that Martha Stewart backdrop of the beautiful flowers everywhere. So we had to capture those three very different things, you know they are three different niches, and we had to try to to bring clarity to her homepage around those three. So what we did is we focused on the biggest one first and it's what are we really trying to do here what outcome are we trying to help people get. And it's about health, but it's also about happiness. And yes, there are vegetables let's be real clear about that these are edible gardens. Yeah, well and the people who are the right that's like clients for her like, like all three and like want to see that, you know, yes, and it always helps if I am the ideal client of my client, and I wasn't in this case so empathy to bring here. So here it's it's very clear. I help people create beautiful culinary gardens and it gives the location because she has location specific. And then it's like, why do you want this healthy garden leads to a healthier you. So we're speaking to that outcome. It's a very clear service directory what do you want to do do you want to create like a delicious garden where you can just grab things and cook. Do you want to have a beautiful garden do you want to explore more of the health aspect. Yeah, and I like that. You know, I think most of the people who are who are listening to this watching this have multiple areas that they like to play in. And it's nice that we were seeing it on screen here. It's like there's, there's, you can get people options. Yes, it's delightful if you have one niche. I don't have a lot of clients that just have one niche, they usually have a couple, you know, maybe it's the same niche at different stages, there's some elements that complicates it, and we still have to bring clarity to that. So, I want to, because I want to be respectful of our time. And these, you know, I'm hitting everybody with a lot of information. Do you want to go to the about page. Yeah, let's let's do that. And, you know, unless there's another homepage you want to show is your homepage or just to just to give us a sense of how you're doing it. I don't break all my rules until I created rules I liked better. Right, exactly. And, you know, right here it's very clear what you do. And I think, and it's clear who you're doing for four coaches right there I mean it's so it's like it's it's a good example and I like that you are, you are you are on your home page and your pictures on your homepage. This is one of the things that I think makes home pages appealing as you could see the person right away. You know, and get a sense of their energy and you so much is communicated in one image style and, you know, values and yeah. And that's why I don't recommend using stock photos in your website because those as beautiful as those are and maybe they're very aligned with your sense of style and what you like. They do not give that sense of your energy the way that a photo taken in your backyard by your significant other who you've bribed. Right. Yeah, yeah, I mean really you could have any, any friend family member neighbor who has a has a decent I come over and take pictures. Yes. So, the pushback I hear from people is, oh, I don't want my face all over my website. You know, it's not about me I'm all about my clients. And I am sympathetic to that. That said, you are not going to open your door if you're expecting guests and have a bag over your head. Yeah, no, it's weird. Yeah, no. Yeah, I think I do also respect people saying oh it's not about me it's about them. And yet, they want it, they want to know who you are as soon as possible, as deeply as possible in the short amount of time, so that they can make a decision deep enough so they think I sent your energy enough that I feel comfortable moving forward. Yes. I had one asked for a zoom video call back when I wasn't doing video calls. So his spirit guides could check my aura. You know, people want to see you. Yeah, totally. And here we are on your about page and tell us what your overall principles for about page. Yeah. So the important thing about the about page. This is really the connection point center so if we've got clarity on the homepage. Okay, this is the problem I have you're saying that you solve the specific problem I think you're for me. Then they want to know if you're going to be a good fit for them on a personal level. So they want to know that you really understand them. This is what I'm always looking for when I go from somebody's homepage somebody's about page when I'm thinking of hiring them. Do we have some things in common. And it doesn't have to be a sort of one to one, you know my clients are not Burgos hat levers gardeners or tea junkies, you know, some of them are I'm sure are. You can you can share your own quirks. The thing that brings you together is that they've got their own interests to that's where you bond it's like oh you know yeah. Training zebras I work with camels, you know, it doesn't have to be the same. I think what I'll say about it is like, you're about page should communicate enough about you or the quirks that are important to you, such that your ideal client would say, I would enjoy hanging out with her. I would enjoy hanging out with that person. Like I could see myself maybe becoming a friend with that person. They don't have to be exactly the person obviously. But I like the. Yeah, I kind of like get who they are a little bit more you know, hopefully by the end of reading this they kind of oh I feel like I get who you are. Yes, and that said you don't want your entire about page to just be, you know, fun facts about you even though. What kind of is I put a lot of fun facts. Well actually earlier at the top. I mean, besides this part, you, you go at the first couple of paragraphs below here are about what you do. So I think you have accomplished both the kind of like the get the feel of who you are and then okay by the way this is what I do. It's actually the balance that we need. And the second part of this so once you create that sort of warm welcome. This is who I am. And by saying this is who I am you're also saying it's okay to be who you are to it gives them permission to show up as their quirky wonderful that puts people at ease and then you say. What I'd love to do on the about page is the origin story of your point of view, because this is how you came to do your work in the way that you do it. Yes, it is life experience it is your knowledge, it is your built in differentiator that nobody else can copy. And it's really good. Do you have another example for an about page I can see there's one open there. Yes, and yeah there we go see get immediately get the feel of the person. Yeah, Natalie is a wonderful website designer. And she has a very unique take on it that her clients who tend to be referrals from other people. They tend to come in wanting one thing and she's like wait a minute I do that but there's this also this other thing that I do this really important. So they come in wanting beautiful websites, and the problem we had to solve for is she doesn't just do beautiful websites she also does a ton of research research. Amazing. Yes, that's so helpful. So, what we did is my approach to web site design doesn't start with mood boards or color schemes like every other branding person does starts with client interviews and it's like put on the brakes what did you just say. Yeah right yeah. So that's that's cool. So yeah she's she's going into a point of view right away on this one. And she says why why that's important why she came to that way of doing things instead of just doing what every other web designer does, which is a beautiful website that maybe is not as effective as it could be. Yeah, yeah. And then we end it with fun facts. Of course, makes a lot of sense. Now let me let me ask you what. Why wouldn't she have put that point of view stuff on her homepage. That could it was an option to write you could have done that on the homepage to. Yeah, although her homepage is communicates other other important things about about what she does. Right. So, so here it's like before I communicate my controversial point of view that you might not immediately understand. I want to first, but I'm thinking, I want to first make sure you know you're in the right place. Right. Yeah, like this is what this is what the clients want they want to they want a great website. And if you look what what gets top billing and her tagline gorgeous design. The second part is my customer insights, and then why you actually want that combo. Yeah, right. It's, it's the bigger why, or deeper why. Yeah, very good, very good. And, and then, next, let's talk a bit about. So hopefully those watching those like, okay, gosh, there's great principles about the homepage, a couple examples. And then another common page so I would say for homepage of course is where most people get the most traffic for just about every website. The second page that usually gets the second most traffic is the about page. And then maybe just for a few minutes touch on another popular page which is the work with me page or the services page people are also really. Many people are kind of confused about and nervous about how to, how do we write that page. Yes, that is, especially when you have multiple niches or you have a different segments within your broader niche. The services page is really the signpost it's the directory that gets people to where they need to go. And there are so many ways to do it. But I'm going to use myself as an example because I, yes, very, very clearly. So up here is, is point of view stuff. That's how I start but then it's sort of choose your own adventure. And I lay it out very quickly like, where are you, you are here it's like those mall maps. Yes, you are here, you have, you know, if you're at this stage you maybe just started your business you got some clarity. Maybe you've been trying to write your own copy and you just hate everything that's happened. We all go through that stage. And this is the service. If this sounds like you, this is what I built for you. And I do this for the three main stages that I work with. If you come to me they're either beginning coaching, or they are making big changes like changing their niche changing their focus changing their offers, and they need something kind of in the middle. Yeah, offer. Right. And I want to say before you go on there. I love that you have named, and this is part of copywriting is naming, naming things. In this case naming services or naming packages. And, you know, the name, maybe, maybe in a minute, I'm aware of the time and but maybe in a minute what's what's your perspective on naming how do you come up with names that are cool like mind meld or earlier copywriting I mean these are unique names I mean that's not that no one's ever used those words but you're you're naming thoughtfully. They're there by no means perfect because I've seen too many entrepreneurs get stuck on the names of things so much that everything is delayed. What I'm trying to do is I just, what what is the heart of what's happening in that sec session so for copywriting, it's really like me with your draft, and I am just taking it from from one level to several levels beyond that. And it's very much about the copy it's not really a coming together of minds the way the mind meld is that's like we jump on a call I get to know your business really well and then I write the thing. That's cool. Now, let me. Maybe one final question for you is, how do you think about, you know, I mean one of the complaints that I've had about copywriting for a long time and not just me but I've heard this from other people is like, Oh, if I get someone else to do it. If I get some copywriter to do it it's not my voice. It doesn't feel like me. And what is your perspective on that. So I hear that a lot to a lot of my clients come to me with that. And I come from a background of nearly 10 years of ghostwriting. Right. Wow. So it was my job. Yeah, sound like a 40 something British millionaire one day, and then, you know, a hard dealing travel agent the next day. You know, I'm not acting. Yes, I can do it. Right, right. It's much safer to write your own stuff. Right. That's a really good one. Wow. Okay, so. But of course one of the things and we'll end on this one. You, you, you teach people the principles and the steps for writing their own copy in an ethical authentic way. It's a very powerful solution for that issue of well I just don't trust anybody else to write in my voice. Right. So tell us about your, your mastermind that's coming up and I know some people who are watching this are watching this months later. But any time you know that's not worry so much about the dates, but those who happen to watch it before then that's great but just contact Lauren and see what when the next mastermind is, but what is the mastermind tells about this. I take 12 people I keep it very small. That's awesome. Yeah. Yes, that's important. And I take them through their home about services and sales pages. And it, you know, my, my templates are roughly 25 pages long each. They are comprehensive and not everybody's a reader so we have introductory like, here's how this template works here's what you need to know if you never pick it up again, and then the template is really filled with tons of examples. But what I was hearing from so many of my clients who have been through the big copywriting programs out there like the big names you've heard of. They kept falling through the cracks, they weren't able to finish their drafts they didn't get kind of feedback they needed. They still weren't super comfortable it didn't sound like them because they were using somebody else's template. So I created my program in response to those things that I was hearing my templates are question based they guide people to answering these very important questions like you have to have these elements. That's the way you talk about it. That's yours. I don't give you like all the language. And then the second part of it is, it's six weeks long, we spend four weeks on the core pages, those extra two weeks are if your life blows up because it does. It's getting in to me so I can edit it just as if we were doing a copy rocking session. So copy rocking is built into every page, because, like my goal my ideal outcome is for all of my clients to succeed, leave with their copy ready to go. Right. Awesome. Amazing. Thank you for providing this service that's really, really great. I love it. Yes, yes. Yeah, for those of us who'd love to do it. It is the best. Well, Lauren, thank you for the work you do and how you do it. Any parting words of encouragement or insight for people on ethical copywriting. The hardest. Yeah, the hardest. I think the hardest part is a sort of overcoming overcoming your own fears about putting yourself on the page, because when your personality driven business when people are coming to you for you. You've got to put your, your heart out there. And that's scary. So, thank you. Thank you for what you do. Thanks everyone. So, you know, the links are below you've seen Lauren's website pages of it so it just sounds interesting. Definitely reach out and the mastermind whenever you're watching this there's probably one starting before long so contact Laura about it. Thanks, Lauren.