 So why property? That's because it's the only asset class that will give you all of this before you buy. Good evening and welcome back to The First Time Homebuyer Show. As you know, I'm your host, Estee Klaassen. And tonight I'm sitting with an absolutely amazing guest. But before we get there, you know that we have amazing content coming to you live every night this week. So I'm on Tungua Kumala with the Private Property Podcast. And the guest we have tonight is no stranger to that as well. And of course, every Tuesday and Thursday night, that's Mbali, an award-winning farmer. That podcast is amazing for you. If you're looking to invest in land farming, if that's your goal, definitely tune into that. And every Monday and Friday night, we travel South Africa with Chad Vaviros, our host from The Home Shopper Show. Are you looking to invest in amazing townhouses, mansions across Bryanston, all the way to Camps Bay? Well, be sure to check into that show every Monday and Friday at 8 p.m. And without further ado, I'm sitting with the absolutely amazing Ebo Qua Crane. Correct? That's correct. I got that right for the first time since being here. But yeah, I'm sitting with the absolutely amazing Ebo. His title, what he carries, what he does is a mouthful. So I'm going to hand it over to Ebo to explain. But before we get there, this is a man that I've been surrounded by his presence from a few weeks back till today. And I feel just being in his presence every day, you're learning so much more every single day. That's pressure. Yes, Ebo. Lots of pressure. And I thought that it's a perfect opportunity to share this education and the knowledge that this man carries with all of you at home. So without further ado, Ebo Qua Crane, good evening. Good evening, Estie. And thank you so, so much for the opportunity to be here. Thank you so much, Ebo. You know, when we first met, you were like, ah, you spoke to my brother. And the show was so amazing. When is my turn? I hope he doesn't hear this. He needs to. And so if you, you know, Ebo obviously has a brother doing very similar things. They're both men of power. We're hungry. We're hungry for success. We've come from a family that has taught us that, you know, where you start does not really determine where you end up. And also every gift that you've given is not really your gift, but it's an opportunity for you to basically expand on because there's so many other people that need to benefit from your presence in this world. 100%. And with that being said, Ebo, today is youth day. Yes, it is. And if we look back, you know, back to Sophia Town, what happened, you know, the youth overcoming oppression and overcoming. And I feel like this is something that today, as someone who can vouch and confidently speak about it, it's something that we're still overcoming, right? And for you to say, you know, that sharing success and sharing these moments is something that I think at a young age, we need to already start thinking about. And just even before we start and just dive deep into it, how are you actually sharing your success? So at properties.com, what we've always done is to make sure that we surround ourselves with the youth, right? So as a 100% black youth owned and managed company, having youth around us is one of the reasons that we're growing so well. Because, yeah. And on the note of youth, what are the first three things that come to mind when you hear youth? CDE. So basically it's curiosity, it's dynamism, and it's energy. Everything that you're doing. You know, somebody, there's this thing about curiosity kills the cat. If you've read my post in the recent weeks, you'd have heard me put out that curiosity did not kill the cat. Actually, the cat died because it was ignorant. You need to learn always. You need to always ask questions because the more questions you're asking, the more your mind opens. Exactly. So that's that. Dynamism, the mere effect of being youth is that you are allowed to make mistakes. You're allowed to change. You're allowed to discover yourself. There's no pressure to be anything, right? So you need to be dynamic in every approach and everything that you're doing. And the last part, of course, energy. Energy wins every single day. If you're doing something passionate about it, you're going to be flat. And if you flat, what's going to happen is that people will pick it up and then you become that lukewarm person that everyone spits out. And you don't want to be that person. So that's curiosity, dynamism, and energy. Nice. And you speak about energy and I feel like, you know, today you still need to carry that energy. And just to the viewers, you weren't here before the show started. Ivo was playing, you know, some tracks in the background and I asked him why. And one of the reasons was, you know, this is your, it hides you up. You pick me up songs. And I think that as the youth, we need to figure out what it is for us. That, yes, of course we have our down moments. Of course we might not always be so energetic, but figure out what it is for you that is your pick me up moment. So that's my question to you viewers at home tonight. What is it that you can use as a mechanism that picks you up when you're feeling a little bit down? And I'm sure Ivo, you sometimes do not always have that energy. Of course, of course. So the trick in life is that you need to know your abilities, right? And you also need to understand yourself. You know, we put too much pressure on ourselves as human beings. I remember when I was sitting back in the days when I used to take the metro buses, right? I would sit on the top floor always and I would insist to sit on the top floor. And because you get to see the city. Right. And when you look at it, you get to dream. And I had this dream of being on Forbes magazine. You know that song, I want to be a millionaire. Yeah. For real, that song is stacking my head from that time till now. Yeah. And there's this pressure, you want to be on Forbes magazine, which is not a bad dream. You shouldn't have it. However, in having these pressures is being able to allow yourself to make mistakes and acknowledge those mistakes and say, I fell here, I can rise again. I made that because I did that. So I can change that because I, you know, the human journey is fluid. And you need to allow yourself to, to feel it and to know yourself and to be better at it. And when you flat, like always happens, you saw me pick up my pick me up song. You need certain things. When I was in sales, it was my perfume. There's, it's just a trigger. You're about to click that deal to spray something and you automatically you zoned in. Right. The pen that you hold in your hand before you hand over to the client and say, please sign on this dotted line because I'm making a hundred thousand. It's those little things. Right. You call it rituals if you would. Yeah. But you need those things because they reset your mind and get you to grow further. Definitely rituals. I like, I like that because I have similar rituals that I use, you know, in my spare time, whether it is that you're moving into a new home. What is the ritual that you do around this home? Whether, you know, burning sage, get rid of that negative and whatever it may be. And I think it's so important to, to, to have these things because it does kind of have you, it allows you to reset when anything happens. Right. And then my next question to you, we just spoke about youth, the three things, you know, energy, curiosity, dynamism. And energy. And you said you spoke and you, you, you remember things and using the alphabet. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's one thing you'll find from most of my conversations. I always think in alphabet. I always ask myself this question, why is it that, you know, when you're like four or five, you start reciting the alphabet, right? Why is it that we do that? It's actually a way of getting the mind to program things in a chronological order. Order, yeah. So I've always, whenever I need to bring a concept that would burn within me, I put it in alphabet. Yeah. That's amazing. Smart move. I might use that. We talk about youth and the first thing that came to mind, as you mentioned, and then I wanted to know what you think about what, what comes to mind when I say youth and property. Youth and property. So for youth and property, it is endless possibility. Because think of it this way. You have come into this world with no pressures, right? And even if there is pressures, you know, because I must be honest, we've got black text at home. 100% Thank God, my family's never burdened us with that. Okay. I'll be honest. Yeah. My mom and dad, they've always said, we are giving you the best so that you can be your own. Right. And they've never burdened us. So that's one thing I'm very, very grateful for. We do have endless possibility, whether we are burdened at home or not, because you are a canvas and you determine what you want to paint when you're six feet under. Because when people are looking at that painting and they're painting you, everything that you have been is what will be on that canvas. And that's the endless possibility you have. So it's up to you to say, up to what limit is my possibility? Exactly. Yeah. It's endless. The possibilities are endless. You said something earlier that, and I solely believe in this, that before I reach the age of 30, I can make as many mistakes as I want to right now. And I should be making those mistakes, you know, whether it's whatever it may be, of course, I mean, as SD, I overthink everything. And I'm like, no, I need to do it this way, that way. But I'm just like, if it goes wrong, it's okay. And it took me years to get to that point where I could be okay with my flaws and mistakes that I make. And I think that that's something we need to take. Very true. And also just leveraging others. So one other thing is it's not every mistake you have to make. Yeah. I mean, my mentors, when I started out, were telling me about how they slept in your cars, how they've had 10 marriages and all of these little things. And I made a decision that I actually don't want 10 marriages. I want that girlfriend that I had in high school to be the person that I'm going to basically die with. Right. And that's my wife, by the way. Oh, wow. We've been together since metric. So you don't have to make the mistakes that other people make. You can learn from their mistakes and do better. Same thing with property. You can, if there's things that's running through your head and like, can I make this mistake? Will I make this mistake? Feel free to contact a mentor. If you have one, if you don't, my office is always open. Hit me up on social media wherever you would. And I'm willing to share. I mean, we've done some bad deals. Right. Very, very bad deals. Right. But the trick of these is the moment you realize this deal is bad, get out of it. So you find along the way that I always have an exit strategy to every single deal I make. Nice. If it goes bad in one month, I'm out. Yeah. Let's talk about that because, as we mentioned before, the show is for educational purposes and sharing knowledge, imparting knowledge on the youth specifically today. And you talk about you've made many mistakes. And if you could just share one mistake, right? Because the point is for us not to make the same mistakes. So let's just share one mistake. And what was your exit strategy for that particular mistake? You know what's funny? The one mistake I'm going to share with you is actually the mistake that helped us build properties.com. Wow. So we entrust everything of ourselves to the people that surround us. And we sometimes then feel that they are too knowledgeable to lead us wrong. Sometimes the things you need to do is actually educate yourself a little bit. So this was in 2010. I was doing very well in my banking career. And we decided, oh, great. Let's just hand all these properties that we've bought to this certain agent to manage them for us. And in the process, we went to sleep. I totally went to sleep. I never checked the bank statement. I never checked whose tenant is paying me. I never followed up. It took me about six months when I really, really needed something. And I checked this and I realized, wait a minute, this tenant has not paid me for the last three months. What's my agent doing about it? And then confronting the agent and the agent went, I don't know. And I said, are you for real? OK, give me my keys. I'm going to do it myself. And that's how I became an estate agent from the very beginning. And we set a rule at properties.com. There will be no agent that will owe us more than a rental. One man said rental not paid you out. And we have our strategy in place to actually ensure that our clients always get their rental all the time. Oh, wow. Because so, you know, you started properties.com. But just before that, at the age of 29, if I'm not mistaken, you did something absolutely, I mean, out of this world. And because I'm that age now. And I'm just like, OK, what do we do? Why can't I just so ever retired right at that age? And what was your, we spoke about exit strategy, but like, yeah, what was your exit strategy? Retiring at the age of 20. 2013. So it all started with, can I share this? Yes, please. 2009, December the 22nd. I'm sitting having a conversation with my banker. And then I say to her, you know what? We need to really start buying property. I've learned enough. I really want to go all out. How much do I qualify for? And she goes on the system. And she comes back and she's like, hey, able for 775,000. You could go out shopping. Said, OK, thanks. Then it took us about a month later. And we went shopping for a million rent of property. Now, what that did when people go, why do you go? They gave you 775 and you go and shop for a million. Because I could and you must because you must negotiate. Right. I sat down and I said, how much money do I need on a monthly basis to be able to survive? And I found these two properties was funny enough together when the tenants paid what have paid me exactly how much money I needed to be able to not push for bigger deals in the bank. But to become a person and it's weird, but just calming down and knowing that I'm not chasing the next big deal, but I'm rather going to be in touch with my clients, made me the next year thereafter the best financial advisor in standard bank at the time. So it's yeah, things work out that way. Now fast forward to 2013 and I'm retiring. There's a trick. We all as financial advisors ask you guys this question. Yeah. When you turn 65, what's the life you want to live? And then you tell us the whole life and we paint it down. And we say, start saving 10,000 in a month. And you go, what? And then you walk away. So having done that so many times, I started asking, why should I wait till 65? Yeah. I've got these properties, they do pay me what I want. Yeah. So what is the life I want to live? And I wanted to live a life of meaning and purpose. What does that mean? It means that every single thing that I'm doing, I must know that I'm happy with it. I must know that it is leading me towards that bigger goal of the people around me being more successful. Right. Where people, you know, when they call your name, when you're six feet under, and I refer to this a lot. But for me, it's all about when you are no more, what do people say about you? Right. What have you lived here? When you're gone, what are they saying, you know? And I love that. And we talk about imparting knowledge and imparting, yeah, what we've learned on others, right? And I feel like, you know, again, in the spirit of youth day and in the spirit of us trying to educate people, I'm sure there are youth out there who are wanting to retire. Yeah. And you've used property to do that, right? Yeah. And I think that there's a way that we all can get into, and that's one of my questions, right? And you even asked me just before the show is like, what was my question? Why invest in property? And you were like, why don't you even ask me that? Like, that's a stupid question. Of course it is. But Ebo, why? So why, why, why property as an investment? Can I teach you? Yes. So this is what we're going to do. Ebo's going to actually, this is like I said, this platform educational. It's time for us to learn. So let's take it back to the classroom, sit down, relax, and let's head on over to the board. What? So you were asking why property? So this is something that we were taught when I started out in financial planning, right? So rule number one in investment management is we are given the asset classes, right? And it started off basically saying cash. Then it goes to bonds. So basically somebody is lending you money based on interest rate, then it's property. So let's build a house with the foundations. And then basically we say business slash stock. Then if, depending on who you are, you go on to the next part, which is the derivatives, where now we have your Bitcoins and your cryptocurrencies and your futures and everything all here. And we always told our clients as you go down this curve, the risk gets lesser and lesser. Well, sorry, as you come this side, the risk is less, but the returns are higher. And as you go this way, higher returns, higher risk. Now you're asking why property? Because actually when you start off, you want a foundation, yes? Property is actually the only asset vehicle that number one, a bank will give you money for to go and do. If you say you're starting a business, they tell you go stuff off. So we've always said real estate is ideal. Because from your property, you get income. As it depreciates, you still earn money. You are able to build in your equity. It appreciates in value. And you are always able to leverage. So as you're doing here, you grow up. So why property? That's because it's the only asset class that will give you all of this before you buy. Without putting in money, you already know, will I make an income? Will it be higher? Okay, yes, no. If the answer is no, I'll walk away from the deal. Okay, the property is depleted. It looks ugly. Will I be able to fix it and be able to build in equity? Yes. Or it looks great if I, you know the story of Harlem, how Harlem was run down. Right. Yeah, and now Brooklyn is one of the most expensive cities in New York. Why do you think that happened? Because you run it down, you pick up equity and you make money. So that's why property and not any asset class as a start. Right. You of course grow and you should have a little bit of something in your portfolio. So let's talk a little bit more about how we can make this happen. How do we, what is, is there a formula to this? So the next question you were asking me was, what were my assumptions before I actually got into the property game? Funny enough, it is the same graph because you know, in investment management 101, you taught, oh by the way, so you probably know that by now that I did major in investment management as one of my courses. So you always believe that what they teach you in those books is the Bible, you know. So I thought, okay, let me get a bit of cash, then let me basically participate in the RSA retail bonds and stuff and then I can get interest, then I'll go into my property. And my assumption was, when it comes to property, because it is the third asset class from here, it actually has higher risks and a little bit of return, that was my assumption. However, as I've grown in the property game, I've realized that property actually comes here, it is the lowest asset class in terms of risk than anything else, because you don't need to go back too long to realize that African Bank went bust when 2009, yeah, and now 2013 to 2019 for Ubusani and them to build it back up. What took them down? It was the money market, right? So everybody that was investing here thinking that, oh, I've invested money in money markets, it will never ever crash. They felt the risk, so there's risk there, because you're not in control. What you're not in control of is actually more riskier than what you're in control of. Property, you're in control of it from the very beginning. You bought the property, you have the tenant, and if you don't have the acumen to manage the tenant, you've got us. That's why it's teamwork and makes the dream work. So yeah, so that was my assumption that property is a little bit riskier, but as we've aged, we've realized that property is actually the foundation of all of these things. So in other words, it should actually be here in your portfolio. So you build everything else on top of property. That's why we've built properties that come on top of property. Now it's the business section. So I just want to quote something that Evo says, because as he said before this, I dived into his DMs and I literally deciphered his entire LinkedIn profile. And that's how I do my research, right? You said you've mastered the art of successful real estate investing. And so Evo, I'd like to, you know, find out what is the art of successful real estate investing? You know what? I'm really grateful that you did this work, because there comes a time where you have to break things down into the most core so that it gets embedded in your DNA. Come I show you on the board how this really looks like, all right? I don't know if you've read the book by P.T. Berman, The Art of Getting Rich. But when I read the book, and this was sometime back in 2008 as well, I realized, gee, everything in this world is actually a science. And if you really, really take time to know what to do, you can duplicate it. So what is the art of real estate investing? Number one, I think we shared this in the other question about having ideal in the foreground of your mind always, right? So I need income. I need depreciation. I need equity. I need appreciation. And then I need to leverage. So let's start. What is the art? The first part is knowing what you want. Okay? Do I want income or do I want capital? What am I going to do with it? So the first part is therefore then having that goal. What am I going to get out of this? The second part is I want to have as much education as possible to say, wait a minute, depreciation. How do I get depreciation? My education tells me that as a property investor, everything that I do to produce income, I can claim back from sales, right? Because it's a tax deductible expense. So when I go and I hire a real estate agent to manage my property, I'm not losing because sales will have to pay that portion that I give to properties.com when I take it out from the income that I've received. So now I pay less tax. So it's the education. The third part is and I wouldn't say it's the biggest, but it's very, very important and that is strategy. If you don't have a strategy, what type of properties do I buy? Am I buying to flip? Am I buying to, or am I renting to rent? Am I doing what we now do at properties.com? That is, we take in your property, we manage it and then we're able to get our service fee from it so that you can benefit longer. Am I trading in that game? Because maybe I have a terrible credit record. I have a terrible credit record. You know everybody says when you invest in property, you must have a great credit record. No, you don't need that to start investing in property. Let me bust that bubble for you right here. You don't need that. And you joined us two years ago. You just turned 21 by the way, last year. Now, she's already in real estate. She's never sent to start off with but she leveraged other people's skills, other people's assets. Did she need a good credit record for that? No. She just needed the hunger to go to someone and say, I am ABCD and I want to help manage your property. I have a good mentor who is going to make sure that I give you the service you need. That's all you need. So let's not go too far. Have a goal. Have education. Have a strategy. But very important have a team. Get people to support you. Get people to do the work that you cannot do. Leverage, leverage, leverage. This is the hidden secret of success in property. Leverage, leverage, leverage. And you can always leverage through a team. That's it. You talk a lot about leveraging and that is the secret ingredient. If you had to write a book and the secret ingredient was leveraging. Actually let's double tap on that. If you had to write a book but everything you've achieved and accomplished thus far, what would your title be? You just gave me the title The Art of the Leverage. The Art of the Leverage. You should charge royalties for this. And you at home you don't steal this book. I'm going to ISBN now. You have to actually start writing. The Art of the Leverage. And then how would it end? How would it end? It would end with how we ended up taking a generation of people that believed in themselves but did not really know the possibility of the end. And now they all grew from not just thinking, hey I'm black I come from a very bad home my mother didn't have money my dad didn't have money so therefore I went to go and take a job and blah blah blah. No. It would be these group of people who decided to take fate into their own hands went into real estate and accumulated massive wealth that would provide for them three generations beyond. Because it's all about what you leave behind when you're six feet under. It's a title for your book. But I want to add a little something. Let me help you. You just spoke about how just because we are people of Kali in South Africa and we come with black tax we come with poverty we come with this mindset but it's about breaking the narrative changing the narrative and breaking the barriers that have been put out. I feel like it's so difficult for us to shift because whether it is example you move from let's say you grab in the hood the Kasi and you move from there and you're like ok now I live in the burbs but I'm still paying my own rent but I still have black tax and I still have to do all these things but at the end of the day you still have to go back home and it's not to say I don't want to say that you need to act almighty because I think that humility is very important it's to know where you came from know what your goal is and what you do and then just keep manifesting that and I do believe that for me changing the narrative does not have to be that you need to go out there and be an activist changing the narrative can be within as well Certainly, certainly I don't know if you ever had this conversation with my brother about where our family really began but if you've had that conversation with him and anyone in my family you'd find that we hold the main track of our family we hold in the highest regard because here was an uneducated lady who was actually in our view and in my eyes a symbol of how entrepreneurship is supposed to be because she would go deep into the farms and initially she used to sell pepper, tomatoes onions and everything and then she realized but wait everybody brings the same goods to the market why don't I specialize but I'm going to specialize and still not leave these guys behind so she'll still go and collect and then come and give them the peppers and all of that so basically she moved on to become the whole sailor for the other people but then she'll keep a certain fruit for herself and she'll be the only one in the market with it so people come to her she sells off her waste and she'll always refer them you want pepper go to that lady go to that one go to that because we seem to think that entrepreneurship is all about me me me no it's not it's an ecosystem it is being able to understand that I'm good at this or I have this that makes me unique but I can facilitate for other people and that's how it is in the community so you've made it don't be all high and mighty be here because yes your brother told us echo told us the story but I didn't stop you because the show is about sharing stories and you're telling it in a very different way and that's what I wanted to get across and I think what you just said about you know how your grandmother it's an ecosystem one of your pinnacle points when you were teaching us a little earlier when you showed us was the last point was team and power team we always have this chat the power team who is your team whether it's your mentor who is even just and I hate saying that this person is below you because I believe when I work with people we're all colleagues I'm all on this so also there's this notion of team that the people have to be working for you or working with you all the time no they don't so you find that in my sphere I have people that I just rely on for just like you call it accountability partners I just bounce things off them hey I'm going to do ABCD this time can you check in with me and hold me accountable then there are those that you know okay I am going to let's look at sectional title schemes when we decided we're moving into the sectional schemes industry right you now go who is the best at it or who has been doing this the longest so we realize Professor Graham Paddock is actually the author of all of these who do we have in our network that can get us to him because you always want to go closest to the source of course so that now is the people in our team so if I need anything and I feel like you bounce it off the best and you come back and you know that you are right and I think that's also one way to figure out if your team is for you at the end of the day because you can have a team that is totally against you that doesn't want to see you then you don't have a team but I think that we especially again youth we mistake that we have these you know circles friends whatever maybe if you can't hold me accountable if you can't call me out on my actions or if I'm doing something wrong whatever the case maybe you're not you're not there for me the UCL just happened right and I remember posting that I wish Pep wins but then at the same time I was torn because I wanted Chelsea to win now here's a person that is supporting both teams at the same time and yet I'm part of the team of both of them right when it comes to teamwork you would have realized that all those people and when Pep lost what happened the people called him out they said you selected the wrong team to start off with being the great leader that he is he went maybe I shouldn't have but it's the best I thought at the time so it's also being able to know that your team can give you feedback and if you're confident about the decisions you made you hold yourself up to it yeah unfortunately that's all we have time for this evening but this is not the end the best is yet to come next week Wednesday part 2 still sitting with Ebo having these amazing chats again this is dedicated to the youth but do trust me everyone there is something for everyone to learn on this show so that's next week part 2 tune in again 8pm on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube we'll see you there take care and stay warm